Theurge Early Entry in Pathfinder?

[RndmNumGen]

Does anybody know of a way to enter Mystic Theurge(or another double progression class) early using ONLY Pathfinder material? Alternatively, are there any ways to offset the loss of 3 levels on either side? It doesn't have to be level 1 entry or anything, just something... anything to help out.

[jmelesky]

The only way i can think of is certainly not RAI, only very debatably RAW, and would require a very flexible GM.

Witches have an archetype called "Hedge Witch". Hedge Witches have a class feature called "Spontaneous Healing", which is a lot like the cleric feature. You sacrifice a prepared slot (which is arcane, as witches are arcane casters), in order to cast a cure spell of the same level or less (which is divine, because all cures are divine, right? (this is one of the debatable points)).

So, theoretically, you could MT with only 3 levels in Hedge Witch, though you'd probably want to have at least one level in a divine casting class in order to take advantage of the dual progression.

[sreservoir]

The only way i can think of is certainly not RAI, only very debatably RAW, and would require a very flexible GM.

Witches have an archetype called "Hedge Witch". Hedge Witches have a class feature called "Spontaneous Healing", which is a lot like the cleric feature. You sacrifice a prepared slot (which is arcane, as witches are arcane casters), in order to cast a cure spell of the same level or less (which is divine, because all cures are divine, right? (this is one of the debatable points)).

So, theoretically, you could MT with only 3 levels in Hedge Witch, though you'd probably want to have at least one level in a divine casting class in order to take advantage of the dual progression.

it is undebatably arcane. (and bards have arcane cures, too.) so no, does not work.

[Infernalbargain]

There exists precisely one method of early entry into mystic theurge. Magical Lineage + Heighten Spell.

[Tyndmyr]

You sacrifice a prepared slot (which is arcane, as witches are arcane casters), in order to cast a cure spell of the same level or less (which is divine, because all cures are divine, right? (this is one of the debatable points)).

Not debatable. Arcane cures exist. You're an arcane caster, it's arcane by default unless you have a way to explicitly switch it.

So, it definitely doesn't work by RAW.

[Novawurmson]

Not to mention there are a lot of cure spells on the normal Witch spell list (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/spell-lists-and-domains/spell-list---witch).

[kestrel404]

There exists precisely one method of early entry into mystic theurge. Magical Lineage + Heighten Spell.

...Sweet! Also, pick a spell that both Wizards and Clerics get at 1st level... (Protection from Evil or Summon Monster I) and you can go Wizard 12/Cleric 1/MT X

Edit: Scratch that, you need a 3 in two skills, which means no entry until level 4 at least.

[Infernalbargain]

Yeah, I don't think that you get in any earlier, you just lose fewer caster levels in your main class. Also the spell doesn't necessarily need to on both lists, just pick one that's on your secondary list.

[DasBear]

There exists precisely one method of early entry into mystic theurge. Magical Lineage + Heighten Spell.

Wouldnt those cancel each other out? Heighten magic increases the spell one level but means one higher level of spell slot to prepare, lineage decreases spell slot prepared needed but also the level.

lvl 1 spell, lvl 1 slot.

Heighten magic +1 +1 : lvl 2 spell, lvl 2 slot.

magical lineage -1 -1: lvl 1 spell, lvl 1 slot

At least as far as i understand. So i dont see how it would allow you to get Mystic Theurge early.

[DasBear]

As for OP and mitigating damage that's not so hard. I'd suggest cleric or druid and wizard.

Using your two starter traits for magic knack, one for divine, one for arcane.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/magical-knack

so cleric2/wiz 1 would count as cleric 3, wizard 3, since your hd is 3. You can also have 3 ranks in knowledge arcana and knowledge religion

Alternatively use 3rd party feat improved caster levels(still made for pathfinder) http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/open-design/general-feats/improved-caster-level.

I would suggest taking void:dark tapestry for one domain for cleric as at char lvl 8 you can add a stun to two singel target spells as well as buffing a summoned monster 1/day. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains/void-domain

Use the archetype separatist to combine whatever you want with void, i prefer travel for flavor. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/archetypes/paizo---cleric-archetypes/separatist

For wizard i would suggest Thassilonian specialist since you will have a hard time getting enough wizard spell scrolls(Mystic Theurge dont grant knowledge of new spells like wizard levels)http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-schools/paizo---arcane-schools/classic-arcane-schools/thassilonian-specialist

For race a Samsaran is pretty nice, giving +2 int and +2 wis, as well as the alternate race feature that allows to get spells from other spell lists(druid spells for cleric or cleric spells for druid for example).http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/uncommon-races/arg-samsaran

At least this is the setup i'm rolling with for the campaign im going into. Well, I have an Elf instead of Samsaran for flavor, but you cant optimize everything i suppose :(.

[CTrees]

Using your two starter traits for magic knack, one for divine, one for arcane.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/magical-knack

Do note that you can't take multiple traits from the same list (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits#TOC-Gaining-Traits), even with the Additional Traits (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/additional-traits) feat. Taking Magical Knack twice, or taking Magical Knack+Magical Lineage would definitely count as taking two traits from the Magic Traits list, and is thus not allowed by RAW.

[DasBear]

Do note that you can't take multiple traits from the same list (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits#TOC-Gaining-Traits), even with the Additional Traits (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/additional-traits) feat. Taking Magical Knack twice, or taking Magical Knack+Magical Lineage would definitely count as taking two traits from the Magic Traits list, and is thus not allowed by RAW.

Darn it all. Hmm, as chaotic good my character wants to help my DM that missed this, on the other hand, chaotic doesn't give a damn about rules... decisions, decisions...

well, magic knack saves 2 caster levels, thats something. If you allow Pathfinder 3rd party "improved caster level" is probably your best bet.

There's also http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/halfling#TOC-Alternate-Racial-Traits wanderlust for halflings, which might work, if you are willing to play a halfling. A bit more uncertain about this, the spell is cast at caster lvl +1 but i don't think that counts.

Best i can come up with(using pathfinder core) is to go a3/b1 with magical knack in b, as long as you take classes that get 2nd level spells at lvl3. This should mean you can go Mystic theurge at lvl 5 and don't lose too many caster levels(you are caster lvl 3 at lvl4). Remember to pick up knowledge requirements though.