3e Whip-sword?

[Real Sorceror]

Were there ever any official 3.0 or 3.5 rules for a whip-sword? If you aren't sure what a "whip-sword" is, Ivy from Soul Calibur is probably the best known character to use one. Its possible it appeared under some other name, like snake-sword or sword-ship.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRsog7RDh0AiNfJXDuvlBtw7PdVDox_p O_gCmF__xEl8D7AXmk50n0XqgSp_A

I could homebrew it as an exotic weapon but I like to defer to the rules whenever they are available. There is the whip-dagger and spiked-chain, but neither of those really has the transforming aspect that I want. Its meant for my changeling Chameleon character and the idea of a weapon that shifts form is really appealing. I even chose that style when I made him in the SC4 character creator.

[Gavinfoxx]

Why can't you just reflavor a whip-dagger or spiked chain as looking exactly like that?

[Real Sorceror]

Why can't you just reflavor a whip-dagger or spiked chain as looking exactly like that?
Most likely what I'll do if nothing turns up.

[Diefje]

Is it a damage extension or variable range or an entangle or something else entirely? Not familiar with SC. Very likely to get homebrew or refluff though. 3e isn't quite as extensive/ridiculous.

[Real Sorceror]

Is it a damage extension or variable range or an entangle or something else entirely? Not familiar with SC. Very likely to get homebrew or refluff though. 3e isn't quite as extensive/ridiculous.
Sorry, "SC4" was just an abbreviation for "Soul Calibur 4".

If I were to stat the weapon I'd likely just use rules for the whip-dagger, with the addendum that it can be retracted into shortsword form as a move or maybe swift action. Spiked-chain wouldn't work as well since this normally isn't a two-handed weapon.

[Seerow]

Yeah I'd refluff the spinning sword (think that's what it's called. one handed reach weapon) or spiked chain.

[Dusk Eclipse]

The spinning sword from Secrets of Sarlona is a one handed spiked chain, I guess that is the closest you can get to Ivy's sword without homebrewing something.

[Diefje]

Sorry, "SC4" was just an abbreviation for "Soul Calibur 4".

I got that, I meant that I'm not familiar in all the ways the weapon is used in Soul Calibur. Anyway, carry on

[Real Sorceror]

Yeah I'd refluff the spinning sword (think that's what it's called. one handed reach weapon) or spiked chain.
Whats interesting is that the spinning sword is a real weapon from India called an Urumi. I think all these neat flexible sword weapons never really caught on because of the high probability of totally killing yourself, but meh, this is a fantasy game...

[Strormer]

If I were going to create Ivy's sword, in that the sword can morph between its two forms, then I would say use the stats for a short sword when in sword form and add that as a move action a user that is proficient with the whip-sword can change it into its whip form which works as a whip that deals 1d6 lethal damage even to armored opponents.

[Velaryon]

As far as official material goes, I think you're out of luck. However, I have seen a whip-sword in a third party book.

There's an old 3.0 Bastion Press book called Arms & Armor that has something called the Serpentine Blade. It's basically a magical longsword that can extend to a 10 ft. reach at will, and it's a trip weapon. It does a couple other things as well, but fluff-wise it's exactly the same thing as Ivy's sword in Soul Calibur.

[Real Sorceror]

As for 3rd party, I do remember seeing it in the old Quintessential Fighter and one or two other places.

As for official rules, didn't see anything in the places I'd expect: Arms & Equipment guide, Sword and Fist, Complete Warrior, etc.

So looks like its homebrew time. Thanks for the suggestions. :smallsmile:

[Incriptus]

You could pay the +1 for a morphing weapon?
But I doubt the "standard action" isn't very attractive.

Could be worth while to request something based on The Swordbow. If you change the name to SwordWhip I would allow for a free action change up.

[Zaq]

If I were going to create Ivy's sword, in that the sword can morph between its two forms, then I would say use the stats for a short sword when in sword form and add that as a move action a user that is proficient with the whip-sword can change it into its whip form which works as a whip that deals 1d6 lethal damage even to armored opponents.

The problem with that is that I don't see a reason not to keep it in whip form all day every day. Making it transform gives you style points, but if you're a melee character in 3.5, you don't have much leeway to burn actions just for style points.

[Darrin]

The Spinning Sword (Secrets of Sarlona p. 136.) is essentially Ivy's weapon from Soul Calibur.

If you don't have that book, a Kusari-Gama (DMG p. 144) can work as an acceptable substitute.

There's also the Whip-Dagger from Sword & Fist/A&EG and Nagaika from Masters of the Wild, but they were never updated to 3.5, and you may have to ask your DM to rule on how the changes for whips apply.

[DoctorGlock]

Didn't oriental adventures or some other obscure splat have stats for the Urumi, a real life whip sword?

[Greenish]

The problem with that is that I don't see a reason not to keep it in whip form all day every day. Making it transform gives you style points, but if you're a melee character in 3.5, you don't have much leeway to burn actions just for style points.Yeah, it would probably work best as fluff with no mechanical implications.

[Seerow]

The problem with that is that I don't see a reason not to keep it in whip form all day every day. Making it transform gives you style points, but if you're a melee character in 3.5, you don't have much leeway to burn actions just for style points.

Making it a swift action would work. Most melee characters don't have much to spend on swift actions anyway.

[Greenish]

Making it a swift action would work. Most melee characters don't have much to spend on swift actions anyway.Well, aside from ToB, MoI and most MIC-equipped ones.

And even if you don't have any use for them, you're still better off keeping it as a whip all the time (so you can threaten at range).

Though, I seem to recall that it was best to keep the sword in whip form all the time when playing Ivy, at least in SC3.

[classy one]

Hmm it depends on which version of Ivy you are using. In SC4 she has a whip and sword stance which she can change on the fly. In SC1-3 it can in the middle of certain moves which allowed her to use all her moves without worrying about stances.

So if you were going for SC4 version I'd say use swift action to change but if you were using SC1-3 then use free action.

The thing I would worry about is Ivy's summon suffering throws. Perhaps a full round action to do a grapple and super deal damage. Again, this is for SC4 Ivy who could not buff a chain of moves into SS.


Soul caliber rant:
Ivy used to be my favorite character in SC 1-3 since she doula hit you from range and destroy in close with summon suffering. Her ranged moves came out of nowhere since she didn't need to go into a stance to initiate them. Not so in SC4, your opponent know you were in short range mode or long range mode and could alter their distance in anticipation. The worst nerf to Ivy was that SS, the best throw in the game, could not be buffered anymore. So the old start of jabs (force the oppenent to guard) and follow a SS was almost impossible.
Oddly, she became much more popular for players after this massive nerf. I think it has more to do with her major assets (if you know what I mean) and the fact that she had a much improved ring out game (at long range). I do hope they bring her back to form in SC5, of all the SC series I think SC4 was by far the worst, bunch of roaches and bottom mashers thanks to the flakiness of inter net connection guard impacting was no longer a viable defensive strategy.

[classy one]

Well, aside from ToB, MoI and most MIC-equipped ones.

And even if you don't have any use for them, you're still better off keeping it as a whip all the time (so you can threaten at range).

Though, I seem to recall that it was best to keep the sword in whip form all the time when playing Ivy, at least in SC3.

Whip stance made you more vulnerable at close distance since it had like like a 2-3 frame delay on hit compared sword stance. She not the fastest character either so those frames matter. Her super throw in whip did about 5 more points of damage. You had to be able to which between both stances on the fly if you want to be competitive with her. She was never that great of a range fighter in all honesty, only that she could fight at ranges no one could, but her keep out was lacking to maintain that range. Most tourey people worry about her in close since her super throws would take of half of your life and could come out of no where. Sadly, you can't use the frames needed to buff SS were dramatically reduced which made it almost impossible to it into anything but a quick poke.

[Greenish]

Well, if you say so. I only ever played it beer & pretzels style (occasionally literally with a beer in the other hand and the controller in the other).

[Cieyrin]

Well, if you say so. I only ever played it beer & pretzels style (occasionally literally with a beer in the other hand and the controller in the other).

You are a better player than I, then, as I certainly couldn't give a half decent game while having one hand occupied by a beverage of choice.

As for a 3E whip-sword, I think I may have seen one before, though I don't recall where. It may have been PF or Arcana Evolved. It may have even been homebrew, I'm not sure. I'll have to pick at my brain a bit to see if I can recall where I saw it...

[Greenish]

You are a better player than I, then, as I certainly couldn't give a half decent game while having one hand occupied by a beverage of choice.The opponent would, obviously, be similarly handicapped. :smallamused:

[TroubleBrewing]

I would usually play with beer in one hand and pretzels in the other.

I'm not much for fighting games.

[Seerow]

Well, aside from ToB, MoI and most MIC-equipped ones.

And even if you don't have any use for them, you're still better off keeping it as a whip all the time (so you can threaten at range).

If you're actually treating it as a whip that does lethal damage, it doesn't threaten range anyway, so no. You're not really better off with an always whip.


The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don’t threaten the area into which you can make an attack. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, you can use it against foes anywhere within your reach (including adjacent foes).

Using a whip provokes an attack of opportunity, just as if you had used a ranged weapon.

[Greenish]

If you're actually treating it as a whip that does lethal damage, it doesn't threaten range anyway, so no.I don't see why you would, but sure.