DC Reboot again (particularly Supergirl and Birds Of Prey)

[Avilan the Grey]

...So, fewer and fewer of the "new and improved" comics interests me.

I am now down to a few titles:

Wonder Woman
Supergirl
Batgirl
Birds Of Prey

(Yes I like female superheroes)

So... Supergirl started off really REALLY good; it was a long time since I actually read the definite first start of their origin. Unfortunately (I have read) the sales between issue 2 and 3 dropped 17%. Don't know why.

Anyway, issue 4: SHE is still good, but the first main villain is basically a (lamer) Lex Luthor Erzats. And it seems that he will be a recurring villain for her.

I agree with some reviewers that said that right now, when she is still rather frantic and shocked and unfamiliar with Earth and our solar system, she should just keep blundering into fights with "enemy of the month" for a while, because that is actually a very realistic way to take the plot for now. Basically I feel it is too early for her to get her own rouge gallery yet.

(At least the preview of next month's issue shows her fighting a female white martian? Or something that looks very close to one).


Birds Of Prey, issue 4: Still not a fan of the new Birds. I particulary miss Lady Blackhawk (hey, a black leather girlschool uniform, drinking men under the table and frequents (male) stripjoints to relax... what's not to like?).

The setup is just weird:

One ninja girl who believes her father's spirit is inside her sword? I am sorry but all I can think about is The Bowler... :smallbiggrin:.

One "tattoed chick with guns" who I am unsure if she has any other powers or not.

Black Canary, Awesome as always.

Poison Ivy, who was invited to join the group by Dinah last month (against the strong protests of the other two). I am sorry, but that is just... wrong. I have always loved her, but how she is suddenly a trusted member of a superhero team?

Temporary member / "hired" extra muscle: Batgirl (Barbara Gordon): Not strange, except that she doesn't even bat an eye (no pun intended) over the fact that she will be working WITH Poison Ivy, or the fact that Dinah was the one inviting Ivy...

And in case someone wonders, I honestly don't remember the names of the first two Birds; they are that bland and uninteresting to me.


Batgirl issue 4: Good, well written. But that is no surprise there. What IS a surprise is:
The woman showing up on Barbara's doorstep claiming to be her mother. As in her REAL mother (she is a redhead, unlike her dead mother who had black hair. So it might be true).

Wonder Woman issue 4: ...No I do not like her mother as a blond. I like the art, though. Also, it was fun seeing Diana "falling in with the bad crowd" (enjoying a rowdy rock / punk concert in London all dressed in leather).
(It is implied that this version of Wonder Woman is quite a bit younger, just like the "new" superman is supposed to be in his lower 20ies).
A god punishing the amazons AGAIN is a plot being used way too many times though. At least this time it is implied that Hipolyta actually have an affair with Zeus, which caused Hera's wrath. I can buy that.

[Axolotl]

For me the reboot has been a reminder of why most people just wait for the trades. The most irritating part is that the continuity doesn't seem to have actualy been cleaned up at all, if anything it's even more confusing than it was before. I don't think any of this is helped by the fact that half the new 52 seem to be Batman and spinoffs.

[TheEmerged]

I haven't picked up this week's books yet, for the record.

Birds of Prey isn't on my list; is the ninja-girl any relation to the old Outsider's character Katana? It's my understanding that BoP is considered a Bat-book and therefore in the DCPrevious universe. When Katana was originally introduced, she believed her husband's soul was in her katana... because it was.

As for Hippolyta's hair color... my memory may be playing tricks on me, but wasn't it blonde in the Golden/Silver/Bronze age? This could just be another example of "the last 25 years of comic history didn't happen".

My personal point of contention is that they still haven't clarrified the question of which universe certain books are happening in. The Batman & Green Lantern books (including Red Lantern & New Guardians) are definitely in the old universe still. It appears to me at least that Aquaman and the new Ray book* are there as well. As isolated as Legion Lost is right now, there's no way to tell which universe it is in.

There's also the question of WHEN some of the books are happening. It is not clear right now (I mentioned not getting this week's books yet, right?) whether Wonder Woman and Flash are happening before the "Five Years Ago" timeframe of JLA or are current. Flash makes more sense if, like Action comics, it is happening before JLA #1.

* There is an oblique mention in the splash intro page of the Golden Age Ray. We've had no other mentions of the Golden Age characters in the DCNewniverse yet.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I've been enjoying Supergirl and hope they will go good things with her. DC has shown a lot of commitment to Kara Zor-El and kept publishing her book despite it taking what over thirty issues to find its footing after her reasonable orgin story in SuperBat. Her new volume is starting off strong and the one of the few I make an effort to follow.

However they do need to revise her current costume a touch. I think "Red panel" should cover all I need to say on that subject though and would prefer an art shift like when they gave her shorts instead of a revision.

[Traab]

Having supergirl bounce from villain of the week to villain of the week isnt just a good way to establish her unfamiliarity with earth and all that, it also is an excellent way to setup a rogues gallery. See what people think of the random enemies, then bring back the good ones later. So what if in her first year she fights 15 different super villains? Keep the 6 or so that didnt suck and have them swear vengeance on her.

[KingofMadCows]

The Supergirl villain is basically the stereotypical overconfident mustache twirling bad guy. He had the opportunity to take Supergirl's blood when she was exposed to kryptonite and trapped in a stasis field. Although, I am kind of hoping that's how they'll reintroduce Power Girl. Have her be a clone of Supergirl like in Justice League Unlimited.

The writers of Wonder Woman are definitely trying to emulate Lucifer and maybe a bit of Sandman.

[Avilan the Grey]

I haven't picked up this week's books yet, for the record.

Birds of Prey isn't on my list; is the ninja-girl any relation to the old Outsider's character Katana? It's my understanding that BoP is considered a Bat-book and therefore in the DCPrevious universe. When Katana was originally introduced, she believed her husband's soul was in her katana... because it was.

Husband then. And as it is written in BoP they still say "she believes". Didn't know about the character before this version of BoP though.



Having supergirl bounce from villain of the week to villain of the week isnt just a good way to establish her unfamiliarity with earth and all that, it also is an excellent way to setup a rogues gallery. See what people think of the random enemies, then bring back the good ones later. So what if in her first year she fights 15 different super villains? Keep the 6 or so that didnt suck and have them swear vengeance on her.

This is basically what I had in mind.
As for her costume... I rather like it. Of course I haven't been paying attention to Supergirl since I was like... 12, so I missed all in between.

Now... Who is the Purple Lady and what will happen next year?

[Soras Teva Gee]

This is basically what I had in mind.
As for her costume... I rather like it. Of course I haven't been paying attention to Supergirl since I was like... 12, so I missed all in between.

Unless you were 12 before 1986 or so in comics Supergirl was... mostly not Supergirl but first an alien shapeshifter thing and then a weird "angel" thing so in short not Superman's cousin like she was to start and is now. And only tangentially related in story to Superman and not at all by blood. (Oh and their was a brief use of a fake future daughter of Supes and Louis too, she wasn't blond though of course)

Dan Didio apparently took one look at Post-Crisis Supergirl and said "f all this" put 20 years into discontinuity so Kara Zor-El aka Kal-El's cousin could return. Sadly her book suffered from horrendous and ever changing writing for a long time before Sterling Gates was put on the book and she was moved closer to her cousin with the now rebooted out of existence New Krypton storyline.

Basically the tl:dr of Supergirl is don't worry about anything not in the current volume and treat her like a new character.

[Traab]

I never liked supergirls skirt costume. I just dont like the idea of flying females wearing skirts, unless they are like the sailor scouts wearing unitards under their clothes. Its just silly fanservice to have a big breasted chick in a jean miniskirt flying overhead. Even if we, as the readers, dont usually see anything. (I dont read the comics, so for all I know we get 15 panty shots per issue)

[Avilan the Grey]

Unless you were 12 before 1986

Actually I was 13 in 1986...

[Soras Teva Gee]

Actually I was 13 in 1986...

In that case yeah you missed all the Post-COIE weirdness.

[Tirian]

In that case yeah you missed all the Post-COIE weirdness.

Just to be clear, Mae was twenty pounds of awesome in a ten pound bag. She wasn't Kara Zor-El, but who would want to be? Kara spent half of Pre-Crisis with Superman playing sick mind games on her (and I'm not talking just about the covers -- the whole premise was that she had to live in an orphanage but deliberately sabotage any attempt to adopt her and was expected to be heroic but couldn't be seen because it would compromise Superman's legitimacy, oh and wear a wig because a blonde girl would obviously be identified as a Kryptonian refugee) and the second half being Superman except with girly problems like how to balance crimefighting with being a soap opera starlet. Making the decision to kill her in the Crisis and to let John Byrne develop a woman with her own life, her own powerset, and her own allegiances was completely the correct decision.

Then Peter David came along and stuffed Matrix in a refrigerator because he had to somehow make Supergirl the central character in the religious comic that he wanted to do. Don't get me started.

I haven't followed things since then, but it feels like they brought Kara back in ten different ways and keep on rebooting her. If people are happy with who she is and what she gets to do now, that's awesome. But when the choice is between Pre-Crisis Superman and the Byrne reboot, always bet on the reboot being better.

[Avilan the Grey]

Well I like this. It's back to basics. Plus it is the first time in ages I get to read a true origin story from the very beginning.

[turkishproverb]

Just to be clear, Mae was twenty pounds of awesome in a ten pound bag. She wasn't Kara Zor-El, but who would want to be? Kara spent half of Pre-Crisis with Superman playing sick mind games on her (and I'm not talking just about the covers -- the whole premise was that she had to live in an orphanage but deliberately sabotage any attempt to adopt her and was expected to be heroic but couldn't be seen because it would compromise Superman's legitimacy, oh and wear a wig because a blonde girl would obviously be identified as a Kryptonian refugee) and the second half being Superman except with girly problems like how to balance crimefighting with being a soap opera starlet. Making the decision to kill her in the Crisis and to let John Byrne develop a woman with her own life, her own powerset, and her own allegiances was completely the correct decision.

Then Peter David came along and stuffed Matrix in a refrigerator because he had to somehow make Supergirl the central character in the religious comic that he wanted to do. Don't get me started.

I haven't followed things since then, but it feels like they brought Kara back in ten different ways and keep on rebooting her. If people are happy with who she is and what she gets to do now, that's awesome. But when the choice is between Pre-Crisis Superman and the Byrne reboot, always bet on the reboot being better.

David's supergirl was good too, actually, and Fallen Angel ended up having little to do with it.

Mind you, I agree they didn't need to hide matrix for it.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I haven't followed things since then, but it feels like they brought Kara back in ten different ways and keep on rebooting her. If people are happy with who she is and what she gets to do now, that's awesome. But when the choice is between Pre-Crisis Superman and the Byrne reboot, always bet on the reboot being better.

One should note I carefully did not say any of it was bad reading.

All of which doesn't change the sort of fundamental issue with her being Supergirl. If you are going to have someone be the distaff counterpart character then why muck around with the basics.

The answer of course is because fewer people would have picked up a comic labelled Matrix or Earth Bound Angel when compared to Supergirl. Its more or less a long term trick on anyone with only tertiary knowledge joining the comic. Especially as time goes on and I understand she's less and less related to Superman. You know, the iconic trope codifying superhero that everyone knows at least the basics of?

It all boils down to unnessecary complications which is why I welcomed bringing Kara back. Mind you I wish they had found something to do with her before New Kyrpton started but that seems to be fixed and post Flashpoint is doing no more then nessecary because of the Supes reboot. Which mind I am ambigous on, picking up an Action Comics #1 just feels sacrilegious. And Grant Morrison... he's a writer who's skills I recognize but I neither trust nor like and feel takes he far to many liberties with his own personal ideas. I've yet to read something from him I thoroughly enjoy, even All-Star Superman had a the worst sort of unnecessary weird crap in it. Yeah its supposed to be silver-agey, but DC One Million had no place in that. Okay maybe I thoroughly enjoyed Superman Beyond if somehow separated from the very-iffy Final Crisis.

[alwaysowls]

Only title of the DCnU I'm reading is Batwoman. Which is excellent, and I'm absolutely adoring the artwork.

Birds of Prey, Wonder Woman and Batgirl, I just haven't been able to bring myself to read. Call me bitter, but I just can't envision the Birds without Oracle and Huntress. And there is just no way I can see Babs, even healed and de-aged, returning to the role of Batgirl. Setting aside all my gripes about said healing and de-ageing, it just ignores all the character growth she's gone through since she was shot. I could see her returning to a role in the field, absolutely, but not as Batgirl. She's outgrown that costume. She's a different person now.

And Wondy... I should check it out. There are aspects of it that sound interesting to me, and I keep thinking I should read it. But there are other aspects of it that just rub me up the wrong way. The retcon of Diana's backstory really irritates me. And it's not that I'm expecting them to take Perez and Rucka as gospel, but Christ, it's not even a good retcon. Diana is Zeus' daughter? Guess what, so was every second person in Ancient Greece. Big bloody deal.