Best spells for spot bonuses? Which is easier to optimize, hide or spot?

[Hirax]

I've been tinkering around to boost a spot check modifier on a character to try and reach 80, in order to be able to defeat illusions. So far here's what I've got:
8: 26 wisdom (15, venerable, necrotic empowerment)
10: racial
10: insight, vision of the omniscient eye (dragon magic)
8: essence of the raptor (untyped)
3: gyrfalcon familiar
5: competence, raptor's sight
23: ranks, sky domain granted power

That's 67, and there's probably a better competence bonus out there somewhere. Sniper's eye and embrace the wild are out. I'm also looking for a spell that would allow me to ignore weather's vision penalties, if one exists. Like snowsight, but for rain, fog, etc.

Dragonsight and raptor's sight halve the penalty for distance, how would both of those interact together?

This also got me to thinking about whether mindsight is really all that necessary - how easy is it to optimize hide compared to spot? A huge advantage hide has going for it is size bonuses, but I'm hazy on how well it's supported with splat material compared to spot.

[Wings of Peace]

No item familiar or Guidance of the Avatar? Granted casting and using Guidance of the Avatar at the right time would probably be metagaming.

[candycorn]

Hide is generally easier to optimize, since there are more ways to obtain bonuses (size, for example), and more generous racial bonuses. With a couple flaws, it's not inconcievable to have a +20-30 hide at level 1.

[Hirax]

Yeah, no guidance, and items familiars make me cry a little, I can never bear to use them. I also just realized I'm missing a circumstance bonus to spot checks, does that even exist? That and size bonuses are pretty huge wins for hide, my inkling is rapidly going toward hide being easier to optimize by a significant margin.

[motoko's ghost]

Hide is easier, due to the fact most divinations doesnt beat mundane hiding, hide in plain sight can be gotten in a variety of ways and darkstalker(from lords of madness) negates most of the rest of the special senses.

[candycorn]

Let's see...

Assume whisper gnome Psywar/Druid theurge. Base Dex 18, +2 race, +6 item, + 5 level +5 tome = Dex 36, or +13 base

Compression, augmented (Diminutive size): +12 (+2 more for dex)
Chameleon: +10 enhancement
Kruthik Claws: +4 competence
Camouflage Spell (SpC): +10 circumstance
Spiderskin Spell (SpC): +5 Racial
Ranks: 23
Skill Focus, Stealthy: +5

That's +84, and I'm not really trolling the books.

If the hider was at least 30 feet away, that would make a minimum roll of 85, +3 DC for distance = DC 88 to spot, which your above character couldn't make on a roll of 20.

With 3 essentia via feats, that's a +90. It only goes up from there.

So yes. Mindsight is necessary. Even that only pinpoints, I believe. It doesn't let you SEE them, which means no targeted effects... at least, not until you hit the area with something that reveals creatures. A Glitterdust would give a fighting chance to see, for example.

[Darrin]

Guidance of the avatar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a), +20 competence bonus.

More spells:

Embrace the Wild (Spell Compendium, Dru 2/Rgr 1): +2 untyped bonus on Listen and Spot checks. (You said this was "out".)

Improvisation (Spell Compendium, Brd 1): Luck bonus up to one-half your CL on a skill check.

Spot isn't covered all that well by Shax's Indispensible Haversack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101), but it does have:

Mordrei'in
Price: 25 GP
Weight: --
(Faiths of Eberron p. 153)
+2 alchemical bonus to Concentration and Spot checks for 10 minutes. For fluff reasons, may only be available to elves from Aerenal.

Also, not included by Shax:

Hawk's Ointment
Price: 50 GP
Weight: --
(Complete Adventurer p. 118)
+1 untyped bonus on Search and Spot checks for 1 minute, then a -2 penalty for 2 minutes.

Raptor's Mask
Price: 3500 GP
Weight: --
(Magic Item Compendium p. 210)
+5 untyped bonus on Spot checks and immunity to blinding/dazzle effects.

If you're familiar with Magic of Incarnum, there are also a few soulmelds that can help. Keeneye Lenses is the go-to for Spot (+4 to start with and then +2/essentia), but if you've already got an Insight bonus, Manticore Belt has a +2 enhancement bonus, Lucky Dice can give you a +1 luck bonus as a swift action, and Bloodtalons can give you an untyped +2/essentia bonus if you can invest any essentia.

Hire a Marshall or take a 1-level dip, and you can add a Motivate Wisdom aura. There's also a draconic aura in PHBII/Dragon Magic (available via feat or a dip into Dragon Shaman) for "Senses" that's good for another +1 Spot bonus.

[Hirax]

If only there were a persistable spell that granted telepathy for mindsight. Shapechanging for it is a waste of the ability.

[candycorn]

Some races get it, but they generally come with LA or RHD. If I recall, there's a lizardfolk that has it with no range limitation (due to typo) at +1 LA.

[sonofzeal]

Some races get it, but they generally come with LA or RHD. If I recall, there's a lizardfolk that has it with no range limitation (due to typo) at +1 LA.
IIRC, they could only use telepathy to contact a specific sort of target. Still technically qualifies for infinite Mindsight, but it's only broken through that specific combination.

[Elboxo]

But what about minuses to spot via distance and offensive enemy casting.... Surely if it can cast images it can defend itself via alternate methods.

I'm curious as to where the DC 80 to realise an illusion comes from, seems to me that there are a few spells with titles that actually just give large boosts to skills or skill check DCs, like Invisibility.

[Darrin]

If only there were a persistable spell that granted telepathy for mindsight. Shapechanging for it is a waste of the ability.

I believe the typical low-level methods to pick up telepathy are Hidden Talent -> Mindlink, Psicrystal Affinity, or Shedu Crown soulmeld bound to your Crown chakra.