Bloodclaw Master and Master of Nine

[ScrambledBrains]

I have questions about both of these PrCs:

Firstly, is Bloodclaw Master of any use in a build that doesn't use pouncing?

Second, I seem to recall a Master of Nine fix on this forum(Which if it does exist I would appreciate a link to.). Does that mean the Master of Nine as it is, is not worth it's alloted pages?

[nyarlathotep]

Master of nine doesn't work as intended fully but still isn't terrible. The problem is that it is by far best used as a crusader prestige class, and works decently as a warblade, but is least useful to the class most likely to take it swordsage.

[Phaederkiel]

why is that? I planned to perhaps become one, so you piqued my interest...

[Fouredged Sword]

MoTN increases abilities readied / known greatly.

MoTN thus is better for classes that have better recovery methods and small lists of strikes known / readied. Swordsage has the opposite problem.

Crusaders get a massive list of refreshing abilities that almost ensures you always have the right ability. Swordsages get stuck with a recovery method that doesn't allow them to use an ability more than once, maybe twice a encounter, so knowing more of them is less useful than it is for a crusader.

[nyarlathotep]

Essentially swordsages gain access to 3 more schools, gain faster than normal maneuvers, and a few mediocre abilities in return for losing out on some quite good swordsage class features (in particular double boost) and taking a crapton of terrible feats.

Warblades have a similar deal but fewer unique abilities to lose out on and more of the reqs are available to them as bonus feats. Additionally they gain access to more schools. The only real downside is a few wasted feats and losing 2 BAB no biggy.

Crusaders lose out on a lot of feats and 2 BAB, but their base class abilities are rather lackluster and they gain the most new schools. The real jewel though is how their recovery mechanic interacts with prestige classes. For every bonus maneuvers readied you instead their starting maneuvers by 1. Eventually you will have enough starting maneuvers that the deck resets before you before you run out of grade A maneuvers and the resetting takes no action. Thus you will have literally zero time spent using anything but your highest level moves, unless there are extremely situational ones that come up from the lower levels.

[Draz74]

Personally, in spite of the awesome synergy between the Crusader recovery method and Mo9, I prefer Warblade Mo9's over Crusader Mo9's.

Reason #1: You can get two of the crappy prerequisite feats as bonus feats, allowing you to get two more feats that are actually good.

Reason #2: Warblades normally have a bigger problem with "I can't Ready enough of my cool maneuvers!" than Crusaders do. Mo9 fixes that.

Reason #3: Warblades have a slightly easier time than Crusaders meeting the "maneuvers from six different Disciplines" requirement. (Warblades can either spend a feat or do a one-level dip. Crusaders have to spend three feats or take a one-level dip. Not a big deal, since both of them will likely do the dip option anyway, especially if they can dip Unarmed Swordsage and get another free prerequisite Feat taken care of.)

Reason #4: I like Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind. :smallsmile:

[Urpriest]

Bloodclaw Master seems to be useful for any TWF or claw-based character, whether or not you use pouncing. What makes you think it's only for pouncing?

[ScrambledBrains]

Bloodclaw Master seems to be useful for any TWF or claw-based character, whether or not you use pouncing. What makes you think it's only for pouncing?

Oh, I didn't. But I'm fairly certain pouncing would only make it better. :smallbiggrin:

And thanks for the MoN data everyone.

[Cieyrin]

Bloodclaw Master seems to be useful for any TWF or claw-based character, whether or not you use pouncing. What makes you think it's only for pouncing?

The substitution for Shifters is also nice, as it effectively gets them a trait for free.