PDA

View Full Version : Make a single-classed character with these rules...



JackRackham
2011-12-23, 10:40 PM
I've made some alterations to the Wizard and Sorcerer class for a campaign world I'm designing. I tried posting on the homebrew forum for a critique of the system, but to little effect, so I'd like to try this from another angle. I want to see what kind of character the forum can come up with given these limitations:

First off, I want primary casters to be tier 2, possibly high tier two. I have no issues with magic being powerful, but I don't want any one spellcaster to be able to do everything better than a non-spellcaster for this campaign world. I decided this only after what follows. What I mean is, limiting power is not the priority. I want to limit the flexibility and utility of the wizard and I want the sorcerer to be a flavorful class that is very good at one thing.

In addition, due to the feel I want for this world, there will be no teleportation, flying, invisibility, charm effects, knock and a couple others (mostly spells that directly recreate skills). I really want skills to be more relevant here. Plane Shift and similar will exist, but at a much higher spell level.

Sorcerers will work differently. In effect, Sorcerers will have free silent spell and still spell from level one (free in that this will not effect spell level). That is, they think it and it happens. Their powers will be linked to an element (fire, air, water, earth, possibly life or death or nature, etc) and they will be able to cast any spell of appropriate level associated with the element. In addition, they can use their element creatively and spontaneously. That is, they can do things not specifically described by a spell (ie: I want that stack of paper to burn to a crisp or I want a tornado to pick up that meat shield and fling him into the canyon), in which case it's up to DM discretion as to whether they're powerful enough to achieve the desired effect and what level spell must be sacrificed. They can only cast spells related to their element. So, they're limited, but within their specialty, they have supreme flexibility. Sorcerers will have been raised for much of their lives in monasteries, to learn to control their thoughts and moods with meditation (which they must do daily, lest their control should waver).

They will gain spell levels at the same rate as wizards. I want them to be roughly equivalent in power to wizards. Frankly, I wouldn't mind them being more powerful than wizards.

Wizards, on the other hand, will be mostly unchanged except that they will be limited to (3-5?) schools of magic. I'm leaning towards four here, but I'm open to feedback. I want to limit their versatility more so than their power with this restriction. On the note of power, however, there will be no 9th level spells. Rather, at 17th level wizards will get 9th level slots (for metamagic purposes) and the ability to craft custom spells as described in the Epic Handbook (all spells subject to DM discretion), but with limitations in the overall power of the effect (this limit disappears at Epic levels). These spells will be assigned spell levels based on the spellcraft DC of the spell (and some good 'ole DM discretion).


In case the context of the world I'm making is important (racial options are very limited)

I'm designing a campaign world in which I will use some ffx-inspired races (and one of my own). We have:

The Ronso, who will have a +4 CON, +2 STR, -2 CON and -2 CHA.

The Al-Bhed who get two extra skillpoints per level, receive no penalties for multiclassing, are proficient with all mechanical devices and can choose any two skills as always class skills.

The Guado who have +4 DEX, -2STR and -2 CON, can sense ethereal creatures (and the ethereal element in other PM creatures - the planar sytem in this campaign is VERY different) within 60ft, have an at-will SLA that allows them to interact with ethereal creatures (grapple, hit, talk and hear, etc), and always have knowledge: the planes as a class skill

The Half-Guado (LA +1) who have +4 DEX, a -4 circumstance penalty to bluff, diplomacy and gather information checks in all dealings with Humans, Guado and Ronso and ethereal sense 30ft. Those who live with humans gain a bonus feat at 1st level, an extra skillpoint/level, and favored class: any. Those who live with Guado gain the at-will SLA and knowledge: the planes is always a class skill.

The Aldgammel, who have +6 INT, -2 STR, -2 CON, -2 DEX and 3 racial HD with spell progression as wizards. I'm debating whether I should add a level adjustment here or go with +4 INT instead.

As I mentioned, the planes work differently in this world. Specifically, the ethereal plane shadows the material plane and borders all others.

In addition, does anybody have suggestions? Any elements or themes for sorcerer spells that would be interesting? Is there a reason this would not work or some way of exploiting this I've not anticipated?

rmg22893
2011-12-23, 11:15 PM
One problem I see with the sorcerer variant is that there are a disproportionate amount of spells for each "type" from level to level. I don't think there are very many useful death spells at level 1; conversely, there are several powerful death spells later on. But a death sorcerer would be fairly useless at low levels. You'd probably either have to make a spell list from scratch, or just rethink the concept.

JackRackham
2011-12-24, 12:02 AM
One problem I see with the sorcerer variant is that there are a disproportionate amount of spells for each "type" from level to level. I don't think there are very many useful death spells at level 1; conversely, there are several powerful death spells later on. But a death sorcerer would be fairly useless at low levels. You'd probably either have to make a spell list from scratch, or just rethink the concept.
Well, I'm not even sure Life and Death will be elements...if they are, I might just fluff it as such and have it, in effect, be positive and negative energy spells. They idea, though, is that they're no limited to existing spells, either. Rather, a sorcerer can spontaneously use his/her element to create any effect within the limits of his/her power (spontaneous effects would be assigned a spell level on the spot). So, a death sorcerer might be able, at low levels, to simply kill a rat or something outright.

I see your point, though, I'll have to be sure every element is viable at every level. I am also worried about certain elements (air, life/positive energy, earth, etc) being far more powerful than others. We'll see.

Zaq
2011-12-24, 03:04 AM
For your Sorcerer . . . have you considered using the Ardent as a base? Seems like it would fit.

Snowbluff
2011-12-24, 05:31 AM
In addition, due to the feel I want for this world, there will be no teleportation, flying, invisibility, charm effects, knock and a couple others (mostly spells that directly recreate skills). I really want skills to be more relevant here. Plane Shift and similar will exist, but at a much higher spell level.

Sorcerers will work differently. In effect, Sorcerers will have free silent spell and still spell from level one (free in that this will not effect spell level). That is, they think it and it happens. Their powers will be linked to an element (fire, air, water, earth, possibly life or death or nature, etc) and they will be able to cast any spell of appropriate level associated with the element. In addition, they can use their element creatively and spontaneously. That is, they can do things not specifically described by a spell (ie: I want that stack of paper to burn to a crisp or I want a tornado to pick up that meat shield and fling him into the canyon), in which case it's up to DM discretion as to whether they're powerful enough to achieve the desired effect and what level spell must be sacrificed. They can only cast spells related to their element. So, they're limited, but within their specialty, they have supreme flexibility. Sorcerers will have been raised for much of their lives in monasteries, to learn to control their thoughts and moods with meditation (which they must do daily, lest their control should waver).

They will gain spell levels at the same rate as wizards. I want them to be roughly equivalent in power to wizards. Frankly, I wouldn't mind them being more powerful than wizards.

Wizards, on the other hand, will be mostly unchanged except that they will be limited to (3-5?) schools of magic. I'm leaning towards four here, but I'm open to feedback. I want to limit their versatility more so than their power with this restriction. On the note of power, however, there will be no 9th level spells. Rather, at 17th level wizards will get 9th level slots (for metamagic purposes) and the ability to craft custom spells as described in the Epic Handbook (all spells subject to DM discretion), but with limitations in the overall power of the effect (this limit disappears at Epic levels). These spells will be assigned spell levels based on the spellcraft DC of the spell (and some good 'ole DM discretion).



In addition, does anybody have suggestions? Any elements or themes for sorcerer spells that would be interesting? Is there a reason this would not work or some way of exploiting this I've not anticipated?


Oh god why!?

Let's start here. Ever hear of Pathfinder? Just use the Sorc Bloodlines. Gives thematic spells and wannabe class feature.

Second, don't do this. Forcing a sorc to have no variety in his damaging spells is just bad. So bad. Half of the fun of being sorc, I've found, is making a collection of your fave spells, while at the same time being careful at what your limits are.

Third. The real fix Sorcs need is normal MM (as in no extra casting time for metamagic). Getting spells at same rate as wizards is okay, but doesn't do much.

Finally, Wizards don't need the school nerf if you don't allow a whole set of spells in the first place.

dspeyer
2011-12-24, 12:45 PM
In addition, they can use their element creatively and spontaneously. That is, they can do things not specifically described by a spell (ie: I want that stack of paper to burn to a crisp or I want a tornado to pick up that meat shield and fling him into the canyon), in which case it's up to DM discretion as to whether they're powerful enough to achieve the desired effect and what level spell must be sacrificed.

I don't know your group, but I would expect this to turn into frequent game-delaying arguments over what can and can't be done. Or, from the flip side, I wouldn't want to play a character whose most powerful ability could unpredictably fail because the DM doesn't see things the way I do.

Randomguy
2011-12-24, 01:06 PM
How do the Ronso have +4 con and -2 con at the same time? Do you mean +2 con?

JackRackham
2011-12-24, 10:04 PM
How do the Ronso have +4 con and -2 con at the same time? Do you mean +2 con?

They're supposed to be at +2 STR, +4 CON, -2 CHA, -2 DEX.

@dspeyer, I can see it being a problem, but I don't think that, in particular, would be a problem in my group.

@Snowbluff, I haven't looked at the sorcerer bloodlines, but I think you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to do. I'm not trying to *fix* the existing 3.5 Sorcerer class. I'm trying to make a cool class that I will call a Sorcerer. The way I'm doing it is essentially about encouraging players to improvise (improvisation seems to be the key element in a fun d&d campaign).

On the wizard thing, I'm not banning spells and limiting them to four schools to balance the game. I'm doing so because I want each wizard to be good at some things and not others (more focused, more flavorful) and because I want more variety from one wizard to the next - without the need for one wizard to have selected obviously less effective spells.

JackRackham
2011-12-24, 10:07 PM
Ok, forget the sorcerer. Other than, "why?" is there a reason a wizard would be unplayable, limited to four schools?

Runestar
2011-12-24, 10:11 PM
You may want to look at the focused specialist variant in complete mage. Basically, a wizard bans 3 schools and loses 1 slot of each lv, to get 3 specialist spell slots for every level.

erikun
2011-12-25, 01:56 AM
First off, I want primary casters to be tier 2, possibly high tier two. I have no issues with magic being powerful, but I don't want any one spellcaster to be able to do everything better than a non-spellcaster for this campaign world.
That is kind of the defining trait of Tier 2, though. Especially with a high T2, you will still have a caster that can mostly run circles aren't the lower-tier characters.

If you want to drop wizards/clerics to T2, then give them spontaneous spellcasting. Perhaps keeps the spells known per day, given them a limited number of spells known, and do not allow spellbooks for re-memorizing spells. Nothing short of complete reshuffling the schools and butchering the spell list will downgrade someone with access to their full spell list otherwise. (Moving orb spell to Evocation won't hurt Conjuration that much.)

I'm not sure how you plan on sorcerers being more powerful than wizards, even nerfed wizards, and yet being on par with melee.

Coidzor
2011-12-25, 02:04 AM
The Ronso, who will have a +4 CON, +2 STR, -2 CON and -2 CHA.

Problem.


The Al-Bhed who get two extra skillpoints per level, receive no penalties for multiclassing, are proficient with all mechanical devices and can choose any two skills as always class skills.

You still use those rules? :smallconfused:

Hirax
2011-12-25, 02:05 AM
Combining schools of magic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222754) has been discussed before, perhaps this might be useful to you, in addition to forcing wizards to drop schools. That way dropping schools can be made much more meaningful.