Elf --> Dragonborn (Feat swap shenanigans)

[dextercorvia]

I'm building a wizard, and I want to start as a Grey Elf (or similar) -- for the Int boost and racial feats to Shuffle away. Unfortunately, I need the following as well:


To not actually be an elf: Come on, this isn't rocket science.
Dragonblood subtype (for Practical Metamagic): and obviously, I'd rather not blow a feat on it, they are tight enough in this build.
A better Con: A Con penalty on a Wizard, just never held up with me.
A way to swap out some of my early feats for stuff with prereqs (like Practical Metamagic).


The natural solution to my problem is Dragonborn of Bahamut. I can undergo the ritual after shuffling away my racial proficiencies, and lose nothing that I care about. +2 Con, -2 Dex is perfect for this -- it makes my race a -2 Str, +2 Int Wizard lover, like should have been in the PHB to start with. Obviously, it grants the Dragonblood subtype, and it has the if you no longer qualify for a feat because of the transformation clause...

Here is my question to you:

TL;DR What feats are there which require elven racial abilities as prereqs? A Dex prereq will work, since that will decrease during the ritual, but I don't really want to limit my Point to having exactly X Dex before the rite.

[Elfin]

Can't you simply take feats that hinge on being an elf, rather than possessing elf racial abilities?

[candycorn]

Can't you simply take feats that hinge on being an elf, rather than possessing elf racial abilities?

You're still an elf afterwards, and you still count as your original race, I believe.

[Hirax]

In the mechanics sidebar on page 10: "Type, Subtype, and Race: You retain your original type and subtypes, gaining the dragonblood subtype. You still count as a member of your original race for the purpose of any effect or prerequisite that depends on race." So feats that require elf wouldn't help. What's your dex score going to be? The PHB has several feats with dex requirements, but with a low threshold. How high is your dex going to be so we know what target to hit?

[dextercorvia]

You're still an elf afterwards, and you still count as your original race, I believe.

This is correct. Just a prereq of Elf is not invalidated by Dragonborn. Something like, Doesn't need to sleep, or Dude looks like a lady, would.

[dextercorvia]

In the mechanics sidebar on page 10: "Type, Subtype, and Race: You retain your original type and subtypes, gaining the dragonblood subtype. You still count as a member of your original race for the purpose of any effect or prerequisite that depends on race." So feats that require elf wouldn't help. What's your dex score going to be? The PHB has several feats with dex requirements, but with a low threshold. How high is your dex going to be so we know what target to hit?

I haven't picked it yet. Dexterity is one of those tricky stats, I don't want to neglect it too much, but if I do everything well, I won't have to worry about it at all.

[Hirax]

One thing you can do is shuffle to weapon focus with 23 feats, with the focus being on the weapons for your remaining proficiencies. That means you only need to then shuffle to 23 feats with the right dex target. The weapon focuses become inactive, but don't go away when you do this.

edit: oh, elves have 6 proficiencies.

[dextercorvia]

One thing you can do is shuffle to weapon focus with 23 feats, with the focus being on the weapons for your remaining proficiencies. That means you only need to then shuffle to 23 feats with the right dex target. The weapon focuses become inactive, but don't go away when you do this.

edit: oh, elves have 6 proficiencies.

I'm not seeing what your suggesting, but I only count 4.

[Hirax]

Ah, damn, I was counting composites as being separate. Otherwise I think low light vision is going to be the only elf thing that might exist as a feat pre req.

[dextercorvia]

Ah, damn, I was counting composites as being separate. Otherwise I think low light vision is going to be the only elf thing that might exist as a feat pre req.

I can't find any -- I may have to peg it off my dex.

[Hirax]

Hm, one final possibility is to be a fighter bonus feat wizard, giving up scribe scroll, and turning it and your level 5 feat into a fighter feat. Then you could turn those into anything, too, which would be a great way to get rid of scribe scroll, and also not limit your level 5 feat to normal wizard feats. Two weapon fighting could replace scribe scroll, and throw anything (needs BAB+2) could be the level 5 feat. Both require dex 15. Two weapon defense is another dex 15 I think. Finding more is going to be hard, because a lot of high dex feats have pre reqs.

edit: I'm a moron, you could just chaos shuffle those feats manually if you wanted. But there's 3 that require 15 dex, at least. If only improved low light vision weren't epic.
edit2: Come to think, for that reason you could use your non-elf feats to meet those pre preqs, then chaos shuffle them later. So you could use your level 1 feat on run, swap a racial proficiency for fleet of foot (requires run and dex 15), become a dragonborn, causing you to lose fleet of foot, pick a feat in place of fleet of foot, then chaois shuffle run back out. Though if you only go for dex of 14 to start, then your life is much easier, as there are way more dex 13 feats.

[dextercorvia]

I may do this with Dodge and Mobility (using the fighter feat variant), and just be satisfied with a Dex of 14/12 -- that should be plenty.

My 5th level feat is promised to the Domain Granted ability ACF.

Is there any other prestige class besides Swiftblade that is good for a caster, and requires those two crap feats? It will make me even more giddy when I swap them out with the ritual after taking the first level.

[Hirax]

Wait, I'm confused, dragonborn specifically says you lose all benefits except HD, saves, and BAB from prestige classes you no longer qualify for. If you lose dodge and mobility, you lose swiftblade. What's it there for?

[dextercorvia]

Wait, I'm confused, dragonborn specifically says you lose all benefits except HD, saves, and BAB from prestige classes you no longer qualify for. If you lose dodge and mobility, you lose swiftblade. What's it there for?

I had forgotten that -- I was thinking that was only for losing racial abilities, not the corresponding feats. Nevermind.

[gorfnab]

Domain Wizard Variant (UA) + Elven Generalist Wizard (RotW) + Collegiate Wizard (CArc) feat + Aerenal Arcanist (PGtE) feat

[dextercorvia]

Domain Wizard Variant (UA) + Elven Generalist Wizard (RotW) + Collegiate Wizard (CArc) feat + Aerenal Arcanist (PGtE) feat

That's a lot of free known spells, but I'm not sure what it has to do with this...

[Crasical]

Okay, first you need to head to Skyrim...

[dextercorvia]

Okay, first you need to head to Skyrim...

I know it is a video game, and that's about all, so how is this relevant?

[Greenish]

I know it is a video game, and that's about all, so how is this relevant?There is a character/class/race (I don't know which) called "Dragonborn" in Skyrim, so all the references to the D&D race "Dragonborn of Bahamut" have retroactively become references to Skyrim.

[dextercorvia]

There is a character/class/race (I don't know which) called "Dragonborn" in Skyrim, so all the references to the D&D race "Dragonborn of Bahamut" have retroactively become references to Skyrim.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

[Coidzor]

I know it is a video game, and that's about all, so how is this relevant?

The main character is known as the Dragonborn or Dovahkiin.

...I'm still not sure exactly what is trying to be accomplished in this thread. :smallconfused:

[Crasical]

...I'm still not sure exactly what is trying to be accomplished in this thread. :smallconfused:

OP is playing a wizard and wants to be more powerful, so is playing as an elf for an intelligence bonus and so he has lots of 'racial feats' like weapon proficiency with bows and longswords that he can trade away to other things with the Dark Chaos Shuffle cheese.

...I think.

[dextercorvia]

In addition, when you become Dragonborn, you may trade any feats that you no longer qualify for, for feats you do -- rather a free Chaos Shuffle, if you pick feats at 1st level, that you will not qualify for after you undergo the Rite of Rebirth (later in your career). I'm using this to get a boost of feats around level 6 or so, that I wouldn't qualify for at first level (when I get the most feats) and several levels before I can reliable Shuffle.

What I was looking for is the best feats to take at first level that I wouldn't qualify for later -- it appears those are feats with a specific dexterity prereq.