Nettin' Goin' on Here

[ExemplarofAvg]

"The four of them seated themselves around the table, waiting for the big boss to join them. They began questioning why they were brought here. Something about a shadow floating through their city, taking their guys out left and right. No one killed, but left where the guards can find them. A knock at the door announces the big bosses arrival. One of the men gets up to let him in, when a net grabs him and pulls him into the ceiling, a man dressed in black drops down. A rope in his one hand, a net in the other. 'Howdy, boys, can I join your club?'.......... Bigs finally breaks down the door, finding his men inside bound up, one strung from the roof, another netted to the wall, two more netted together on the floor. He feels a tap on the shoulder, only to turn around and take a net to the face."


So, I had this idea of a character that uses a combination of nets and the use rope skill (Manacles if time doesn't allow much for it) to non-lethally subdue a target. Is there a way to optimize a net? Also any ideas for some form of Net trick that works the way described in the first takedown. Where you hit someone with the net and then lift them up somewhere, or is this doable under the net rules already?

[Jheska]

There's a prestige class that does just that actually, if I could just remember its name...

[Flickerdart]

Justicar (CW?) has some abilities related to using manacles in combat, if that helps.

[Jheska]

Thats the one!

Optimise grappling and use rope and you can make opposed checks they can't touch. They're then helpless, the condition, unless they can beat your check (with a +10) with their escape artist or beat the break DC on your manacles. Talk to your gm about making manacles from adamantine, or to be unbreakable Riverine.

[ExemplarofAvg]

Thats the one!

Optimise grappling and use rope and you can make opposed checks they can't touch. They're then helpless, the condition, unless they can beat your check (with a +10) with their escape artist or beat the break DC on your manacles. Talk to your gm about making manacles from adamantine, or to be unbreakable Riverine.

Adamantine Manacles... Wow. Also, Riverine?

[Jheska]

From Stormwrack, its magic water contained by shaped walls of force. The water is irrelevant, the walls of force are indestructible save by disjunction. Disjunction would have destroyed your gear anyway, the stuff is priced by the normal weight of your item, manacles only weight 2Lbs

You do the math.

Edit - Having done the math indestructible manacles cost you 4000gp

[Flickerdart]

From Stormwrack, its magic water contained by shaped walls of force. The water is irrelevant, the walls of force are indestructible save by disjunction. Disjunction would have destroyed your gear anyway, the stuff is priced by the normal weight of your item, manacles only weight 2Lbs

You do the math.

Edit - Having done the math indestructible manacles cost you 4000gp
The price of manacles comes largely from the complexity of the lock, since 2lb of iron isn't really worth anything. So while 2lb of riverine is 4k, you then have to shell out for the lock, and then you might as well make it masterwork for the extra Escape Artist DC. That adds another 200gp to the cost, all in all.

[ExemplarofAvg]

so 4200 for Manacles that are darn near impossible to escape from, Hmm, this is the only part of the idea that I don't enjoy, I was hoping to bind them and leave them as a warning to the other bad guys, or gift wrap them for the law. Sort of like a certain superhero that I dislike, but have to admit he has style.

[Flickerdart]

Not nearly impossible. The riverine only negates the break DC, but the break DC is probably the hardest thing about manacles anyway. Someone with +15 to Escape Artist can just take 20 and get out, so most 9+ level skillmonkeys will easily slip out. Open Lock DC for the best lock ever is only 5 higher (plus two without tools) so the skill monkeys that didn't take Escape Artist only need to wait a few more levels to get out within minutes.

Oh yeah, and if you want to manacle a Large creature, the cost is multiplied by 10, and multiplied by 100 for Huge creatures. Anything larger than this or smaller than Small needs manacles crafted special, with no price given at all.

[ExemplarofAvg]

Not nearly impossible. The riverine only negates the break DC, but the break DC is probably the hardest thing about manacles anyway. Someone with +15 to Escape Artist can just take 20 and get out, so most 9+ level skillmonkeys will easily slip out. Open Lock DC for the best lock ever is only 5 higher (plus two without tools) so the skill monkeys that didn't take Escape Artist only need to wait a few more levels to get out within minutes.

Oh yeah, and if you want to manacle a Large creature, the cost is multiplied by 10, and multiplied by 100 for Huge creatures. Anything larger than this or smaller than Small needs manacles crafted special, with no price given at all.

Wow, so umm, any suggestions for the Nets? Seeing as it's not exactly cost effective to do it with Manacles. Even though they'd probably only deal with medium characters.

[Treblain]

Catch them with unbreakable manacles, knock them unconscious, and then swap for cheap manacles while they're helpless and keep the expensive ones to use again.

[Demonic_Spoon]

Isn't there a wondrous magic item somewhere that is basically inescapable manacles? I vaguely remember something like that.

[Inferno]

Catch them with unbreakable manacles, knock them unconscious, and then swap for cheap manacles while they're helpless and keep the expensive ones to use again.

Or make yourself a portable hole prison. A portable hole on a riverine base, with riverine hinges to a riverine grate and a masterwork lock. Bonus points if you have a handle installed so it can be used as a shield. A riverine-meat composite shield...

[Incriptus]

There is very limited Net support.

The only feat is - Net & Trident Weaponstyle feat from complete warrior.

There are a few magic nets but the only one that really impresses me is the living net from Arms & Equipment. 20 ft range. Folds as a move action instead of 2 rounds. Most Importantly can peform a trip as a free [which I would likely 3.5 update to swift] action. I would also request that my DM work with me about the bursting DC with a magic item. Next I would probably get an additional enchantment of Binding. I would also be tempted to see if they'd allow me to get a seperate enchantment to the trailing rope. Perhaps make it a stone rope that I use to tie the person up in the net.

The Justicar from Complete Warrior seems appropriate as a prestige class



My Imaginary Write Up, Race = Human. Attributes using my house ruled rolling style.

Class Levels ; HP ; Attributes ; BAB ; Saves ; Skills ; Feats ; Class Abilities ; Spells ; Equipment

Level 1: Ranger 1; 11; 18/15/16/13/14/11; +1; 2(5)/2(4)/0(2); Gather Information/Search/Survival; Weapon Focus(Trident)/Urban Tracking/Tracking; Favored Enemy/Wild Empathy/

Level 2: Ranger 2; 21; 18/15/16/13/14/11; +2; 3(6)/3(5)/0(2); Gather Information/Search/Survival; Weapon Focus(Trident)/Urban Tracking/Tracking/Two Weapon Fighting/; Favored Enemy/Wild Empathy/; +900

Level 3: Ranger 3; 30; 18/15/16/13/14/11; +3; 3(6)/3(5)/1(3); Gather Information/Search/Survival; Weapon Focus(Trident)/Urban Tracking/Tracking/Two Weapon Fighting/Exotic WP[Net]/Endurance/; Favored Enemy/Wild Empathy/; +900+1800

Level 4: Ranger 4; 40; 18/16/16/13/14/11; +4; 4(7)/4(7)/1(3); Gather Information/Search/Survival; Weapon Focus(Trident)/Urban Tracking/Tracking/Two Weapon Fighting/Exotic WP[Net]/Endurance/Combat Expertise/; Favored Enemy/Wild Empathy/Urban Companion[Bat]/; +900+1800+2700

Level 5: Ranger 4/Fighter 1; 51; 18/16/16/13/14/11; +5; 6(9)/4(7)/1(3); Gather Information/Search/Survival; Weapon Focus(Trident)/Urban Tracking/Tracking/Two Weapon Fighting/Exotic WP[Net]/Endurance/Combat Expertise/Net & Trident Style/; Favored Enemy/Wild Empathy/Urban Companion[Bat]/; +900+1800+2700+3600

Level 6: Ranger 4/Fighter 2; 62; 18/16/16/13/14/11; +6; 7(10)/4(7)/1(3); Gather Information/Search/Survival; Weapon Focus(Trident)/Urban Tracking/Tracking/Two Weapon Fighting/Exotic WP[Net]/Endurance/Combat Expertise/Net & Trident Style/Improved Trip/Skill Focus[Gather Infromation]; Favored Enemy/Wild Empathy/Urban Companion[Bat]/; +900+1800+2700+3600+4000

Level 7: Ranger 4/Fighter 2/Justicar 1; 73; 18/16/16/13/14/11; +7; 7(10)/4(7)/3(5); Gather Information/Search/Survival; Weapon Focus(Trident)/Urban Tracking/Tracking/Two Weapon Fighting/Exotic WP[Net]/Endurance/Combat Expertise/Net & Trident Style/Improved Trip/Skill Focus[Gather Infromation]; Favored Enemy/Wild Empathy/Urban Companion[Bat]/Bring Em Back Alive/Non Lethal Strike(1d6)/; +900+1800+2700+3600+4000+6000

Level 8: Ranger 4/Fighter 2/Justicar 2; 84; 19/16/16/13/14/11; +8; 7(10)/4(7)/4(6); Gather Information/Search/Survival; Weapon Focus(Trident)/Urban Tracking/Tracking/Two Weapon Fighting/Exotic WP[Net]/Endurance/Combat Expertise/Net & Trident Style/Improved Trip/Skill Focus[Gather Infromation]/Improved Grapple/; Favored Enemy/Wild Empathy/Urban Companion[Bat]/Bring Em Back Alive/Non Lethal Strike(1d6)/Crippling Strike/; +900+1800+2700+3600+4000+6000+8000

Level 9: Ranger 4/Fighter 2/Justicar 3; 95; 19/16/16/13/14/11; +9; 8(11)/5(8)/4(6); Gather Information/Search/Survival; Weapon Focus(Trident)/Urban Tracking/Tracking/Two Weapon Fighting/Exotic WP[Net]/Endurance/Combat Expertise/Net & Trident Style/Improved Trip/Skill Focus[Gather Infromation]/Improved Grapple/?/Exotic WP[Manacles]/; Favored Enemy/Wild Empathy/Urban Companion[Bat]/Bring Em Back Alive/Non Lethal Strike(1d6)/Crippling Strike/Street Savvy(2)/; +900+1800+2700+3600+4000+6000+8000+9000

Level 10: Ranger 4/Fighter 2/Justicar 4; 106; 19/16/16/13/14/11; +10; 8(11)/5(8)/5(7); Gather Information/Search/Survival; Weapon Focus(Trident)/Urban Tracking/Tracking/Two Weapon Fighting/Exotic WP[Net]/Endurance/Combat Expertise/Net & Trident Style/Improved Trip/Skill Focus[Gather Infromation]/Improved Grapple/?/Exotic WP[Manacles]/; Favored Enemy/Wild Empathy/Urban Companion[Bat]/Bring Em Back Alive/Non Lethal Strike(2d6)/Crippling Strike/Street Savvy(2)/; +900+1800+2700+3600+4000+6000+8000+9000+13000

Level 11: Ranger 4/Fighter 2/Justicar 5; 117; 19/16/16/13/14/11; +11; 8(11)/5(8)/5(7); Gather Information/Search/Survival; Weapon Focus(Trident)/Urban Tracking/Tracking/Two Weapon Fighting/Exotic WP[Net]/Endurance/Combat Expertise/Net & Trident Style/Improved Trip/Skill Focus[Gather Infromation]/Improved Grapple/?/Exotic WP[Manacles]/; Favored Enemy/Wild Empathy/Urban Companion[Bat]/Bring Em Back Alive/Non Lethal Strike(2d6)/Crippling Strike/Street Savvy(2)/Hog Tie/; +900+1800+2700+3600+4000+6000+8000+9000+13000+1700 0

Level 12: Ranger 4/Fighter 2/Justicar 6; 128; 20/16/16/13/14/11; +12; 9(12)/6(9)/6(8); Gather Information/Search/Survival; Weapon Focus(Trident)/Urban Tracking/Tracking/Two Weapon Fighting/Exotic WP[Net]/Endurance/Combat Expertise/Net & Trident Style/Improved Trip/Skill Focus[Gather Infromation]/Improved Grapple/?/Exotic WP[Manacles]/?; Favored Enemy/Wild Empathy/Urban Companion[Bat]/Bring Em Back Alive/Non Lethal Strike(2d6)/Crippling Strike/Street Savvy(4)/Hog Tie/; +900+1800+2700+3600+4000+6000+8000+9000+13000+1700 0+22000

Level 13: Ranger 4/Fighter 2/Justicar 7; 139; 20/16/16/13/14/11; +13; 9(12)/6(9)/6(8); Gather Information/Search/Survival; Weapon Focus(Trident)/Urban Tracking/Tracking/Two Weapon Fighting/Exotic WP[Net]/Endurance/Combat Expertise/Net & Trident Style/Improved Trip/Skill Focus[Gather Infromation]/Improved Grapple/?/Exotic WP[Manacles]/?; Favored Enemy/Wild Empathy/Urban Companion[Bat]/Bring Em Back Alive/Non Lethal Strike(3d6)/Crippling Strike/Street Savvy(4)/Hog Tie/;