Pregnant PC's?

[Maximus:Ranger]

A PC in my campaign made a deal with a guardian of nature, and her end of the deal is to give her first born child to the guardian to be his heir. She'll have to make a pilgrimage to the forests of the north where he dwells and I need to know if there are any ability or attack penalties to being pregnant. Any ideas?

[rubycona]

The Book of Erotic Fantasy has some rules for pregnancy. They are as follows:

1st Trimester - No penalties
2nd Trimester - Movement reduced by 1/4 (round down), -2 Dex
3rd Trimester - Movement reduced by 1/2, -4 Dex, -2 Strength.

As a recently ex-pregnant lady (he's so cute! ^-^), I have to disagree with the first trimester ruling. I'd add 50% chance of nauseated status at any time, day or night (I'd roll it hourly). Also, starting with 2nd trimester, I'd add that they need an extra 2 hours of sleep, due to the constant bathroom breaks.

Hope that helps :)

[Mordokai]

As a rule of thumb, avoid pregnancy as a rotten and diseased corpse. Or, if not possible, just say "nine months later".

Yes, pregnancy carries all sort of penalties, as you may imagine. To the point that the pregnant adventurer is pretty much a liability to her group in the last trimester, if not before that. Those include, but are not limited to, lower STR and associated BAB, lower land speed, mood changes(that could be interpreted to rage and many other status effects), nausea, spell disruption... the list goes on.

Any sane DM will simply gloss it over and continue once it's well and over and truly done. Because having a pregnant character around is a strain on everybody.

[rubycona]

I have to admit, I agree with Mordokai, actually. The BoEF rules aren't anywhere near comprehensive enough for how straining pregnancy is. Up to you, though. Gentler rules, and playable, or outright skip it, if possible.

The thought of trying to fight, when I was 9 months pregnant... aii. Now that I think about it... it's just not feasible.

But then, D&D is a game, and a poor life simulator. You can make pregnancy easier than life, like everything else in D&D.

[olthar]

As a rule of thumb, avoid pregnancy as a rotten and diseased corpse. Or, if not possible, just say "nine months later".

Yes, pregnancy carries all sort of penalties, as you may imagine. To the point that the pregnant adventurer is pretty much a liability to her group in the last trimester, if not before that. Those include, but are not limited to, lower STR and associated BAB, lower land speed, mood changes(that could be interpreted to rage and many other status effects), nausea, spell disruption... the list goes on.

Any sane DM will simply gloss it over and continue once it's well and over and truly done. Because having a pregnant character around is a strain on everybody.
I'll third this? Don't forget the constant miscarriage chance because the character is being stabbed with swords.

If you want the pc to have a penalty for making the deal, then if the party doesn't agree to sit and wait 9 months doing nothing tell the player to put together a hireling to play for 9 months game time and have the party hire that guy/girl.

[Tengu_temp]

Letting us know what system you're playing (by posting in the appropriate subforum, for example) would be nice...

[Aron Times]

Please don't say FATAL...

[Mordokai]

I'll third this? Don't forget the constant miscarriage chance because the character is being stabbed with swords.

I was under the impression that goes without saying.

For added squick, consider necromancy spells casted on future mother. Which could result in stillborn child, but not necessarily a dead one.

Yeah, I went there. Enjoy your zombie baby.


Please don't say FATAL...

No, you see, in that case the mother wouldn't survive past the act on impregnation.

[Glyde]

Depends on the character's race, I imagine, but it could be spun into badass maternal killing machine instead of a liability. Just another path to consider.

[The Tygre]

It's really quite simple. If you want more detailed rules on pregnancy for d20, you need to dig deeper than the Book of Erotic Fantasy. Look for The Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge. Far more detailed.

As for roleplaying, I for one vehemently disagree with removal from the game. Players don't like it when they're characters are rendered completely inactive, especially for nine months. That's 3/4 of a year in game time. Play through it as long as you can. Treat it as an experiment in group interaction and character growth. Its time for roleplaying to shine through.

[Aron Times]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0587.html

You're welcome, citizens!

[0nimaru]

I was under the impression that goes without saying.

For added squick, consider necromancy spells casted on future mother. Which could result in stillborn child, but not necessarily a dead one.

Yeah, I went there. Enjoy your zombie baby.


The world has to have a supply of Slaymates somehow. It's not the most desirable job, but necromancers need their metamagic reduction!

[Helldog]

Push her down the stairs.

[Ulysses WkAmil]

I didn't even know there was rules for this sort of thing....I recently found out about DnD orgies (http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article95.htm) as well....
Ya, like olthar said, watch for miscarriage stuff, like poisons or afflictions and stuff.

[Lateral]

I was under the impression that goes without saying.

For added squick, consider necromancy spells casted on future mother. Which could result in stillborn child, but not necessarily a dead one.

Yeah, I went there. Enjoy your zombie baby.

Nah. That'd be a dead baby, but not necessarily a stillborn one. :smalltongue:

[Maximus:Ranger]

I'll specify a little more, she made of deal with a guardian of nature. They're protectors of certain areas of wilderness that are as old as the earth itself. This guardian is the Wolf Lord the only human one (the original guardian was a dire wolf that was slain by the first wolf lord who wore it's pelt and was cursed/blessed as the new guardian). The party was getting it's ass handed to them on a silver platter by a yeti and the cleric Kaird was panicking as her fiancé had just been rended. She came across the wolf lord (who was out hunting with his pack) while searching for help. She made a deal with him that in return for a favor he and his pack would kill the yeti. Well in order to break the curse the pelt of the wolf lord must be passed on willingly to someone else. So Kaird's end of the bargain is when she's pregnant with her first child, she and three other people of her choice must travel to the north woods to deliver the child who the wolf lord will take, raise, and pass the pelt onto. So I can't really skip over the pregnancy.

[motoko's ghost]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0587.html

You're welcome, citizens!

Damn it, I was going to link that:smalltongue:, other than that I think the BoEF rules, coupled with the suggestions from rubycona should work fine.

Edit: didnt notice the BoUCK recommendation, didnt think anyone else actually owned that, its actually quite detailed and has some really original stuff, check it out.

[Coidzor]

:eek: Why would you do that? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigNo)

Danger Will Robinson, Danger!

[Maximus:Ranger]

:eek: Why would you do that? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigNo)

Danger Will Robinson, Danger!

Is...that really awful or something?:smallconfused:

[motoko's ghost]

Is...that really awful or something?:smallconfused:

If he's talking about the BoUCK, there are some bits that can be slightly...unsettling,mainly in some of the spells, but quite frankly its a 18+ sourcebook, so theres going to be something in there(the worst bit is the art though:smalltongue:)

[Slipperychicken]

See, we've already solved this problem in real life. It's called "maternity leave". It's when you take a break, because strenuous activity during pregnancy compromises the health of babies and their mothers. Working a 40-hour-week, no-manual-labor day job with workers rights is "strenuous", to the point of endangering health. Fast-paced DnD adventuring is like Vietnam times a thousand. This is no place for a child.

[Leon]

Well you can, you just streamline the events that lead up to the passing over of the child without having to workout how to do it mechanically.

The passage of months can be done with downtime for other members to pursue activities outside of adventuring while the mother has a break.

Or stand the PC down and play a temp character in the meantime while the main PC is expected to return at the end of the time ready to continue (same EXP as the avg level of the party as after all she has overcome a lengthy challenge)

[Maximus:Ranger]

See, we've already solved this problem in real life. It's called "maternity leave". It's when you take a break, because strenuous activity during pregnancy compromises the health of babies and their mothers. Working a 40-hour-week, no-manual-labor day job with workers rights is "strenuous", to the point of endangering health. Fast-paced DnD adventuring is like Vietnam times a thousand. This is no place for a child.

Be that as it may children do indeed exist, and the wolf lord demands Kaird's.

[Lateral]

If he's talking about the BoUCK, there are some bits that can be slightly...unsettling,mainly in some of the spells, but quite frankly its a 18+ sourcebook, so theres going to be something in there(the worst bit is the art though:smalltongue:)

Wait, that's a real thing?!

[Coidzor]

Is...that really awful or something?:smallconfused:

It's one step above featuring rape in your game.

It is incredibly difficult to treat well, generally annoying and frustrating to deal with rules-wise because one has to reconcile superhuman ability with the albatross of physical decrepitude of cultural expectations about pregnancy, it ain't fun, and it's a major drama bomb waiting to happen.


If he's talking about the BoUCK, there are some bits that can be slightly...unsettling,mainly in some of the spells, but quite frankly its a 18+ sourcebook, so theres going to be something in there(the worst bit is the art though:smalltongue:)

That's fairly bad too, IIRC.


Be that as it may children do indeed exist, and the wolf lord demands Kaird's.

And he has to have it before it's born why? That was all your decision, after all.

Hell, why's he want it before it can actually assume the duties or be taught anything? ...Or before he actually has any assurance it won't just die of SIDS. :smallconfused:

[Maximus:Ranger]

It is incredibly difficult to treat well, generally annoying and frustrating to deal with rules-wise because one has to reconcile superhuman ability with the albatross of physical decrepitude of cultural expectations about pregnancy, it ain't fun, and it's a major drama bomb waiting to happen.



And he has to have it before it's born why? That was all your decision, after all.

Hell, why's he want it before it can actually assume the duties or be taught anything? ...Or before he actually has any assurance it won't just die of SIDS. :smallconfused:[/QUOTE]

She needs to travel while she's still pregnant because it's part of the whole pilgrimage thing, he wants to raise the child himself so it pretty much be the ideal guardian without any ties to human society, and I don't really see it as a huge drama bomb and the player doesn't have a big issue with it, only her character (and her husband) does.

[Slipperychicken]

So Kaird's end of the bargain is when she's pregnant with her first child, she and three other people of her choice must travel to the north woods to deliver the child who the wolf lord will take, raise, and pass the pelt onto.

Heh. Do most of the pregnancy thing in the place of your choice, then buy two castings of Greater Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm), for a total of 1,400 gold. You actually can handwave the pregnancy, if your PC decides to wait till she's done adventuring (read: epilogue of campaign) to have the child.

[Leon]

She needs to travel while she's still pregnant because it's part of the whole pilgrimage thing, he wants to raise the child himself so it pretty much be the ideal guardian without any ties to human society, and I don't really see it as a huge drama bomb and the player doesn't have a big issue with it, only her character (and her husband) does.

Still doesn't need a mechanical tie in to the rest of at the game, they can travel to where ever it is, taking all the time they need and stay till it is delivered and pass to the new parent all with in the time frame of it happens off camera - you are the DM, you make these things happen. Unless of course the Pregnant PC wants to keep adventuring despite the obvious things that are going to occur and possibly put the child (heir of the force of nature) at risk

[Maximus:Ranger]

Still doesn't need a mechanical tie in to the rest of at the game, they can travel to where ever it is, taking all the time they need and stay till it is delivered and pass to the new parent all with in the time frame of it happens off camera - you are the DM, you make these things happen. Unless of course the Pregnant PC wants to keep adventuring despite the obvious things that are going to occur and possibly put the child (heir of the force of nature) at risk

There's also the issue of the cult of orcus conquering the land and trying to permanently summoning Orcus to the prime material.

[Coidzor]

She needs to travel while she's still pregnant because it's part of the whole pilgrimage thing, he wants to raise the child himself so it pretty much be the ideal guardian without any ties to human society, and I don't really see it as a huge drama bomb and the player doesn't have a big issue with it, only her character (and her husband) does.

Because there's just so much raising that's so essential between the age of -1 hour and 3 months old. :smalltongue:


There's also the issue of the cult of orcus conquering the land and trying to permanently summoning Orcus to the prime material.

...Why did she let herself get pregnant in the middle of an adventure then? :smallconfused:

Wait, no, better question. Why did you get her pregnant in the middle of an adventure? Especially considering you didn't feel you had everything figured out enough to not need to ask anyone about running it...

[Crasical]

I'll specify a little more, she made of deal with a guardian of nature. They're protectors of certain areas of wilderness that are as old as the earth itself. This guardian is the Wolf Lord the only human one (the original guardian was a dire wolf that was slain by the first wolf lord who wore it's pelt and was cursed/blessed as the new guardian). The party was getting it's ass handed to them on a silver platter by a yeti and the cleric Kaird was panicking as her fiancé had just been rended. She came across the wolf lord (who was out hunting with his pack) while searching for help. She made a deal with him that in return for a favor he and his pack would kill the yeti. Well in order to break the curse the pelt of the wolf lord must be passed on willingly to someone else. So Kaird's end of the bargain is when she's pregnant with her first child, she and three other people of her choice must travel to the north woods to deliver the child who the wolf lord will take, raise, and pass the pelt onto. So I can't really skip over the pregnancy.

Here's a flowchart!


Is the character Pregnant? If no, go to 10. If yes, go to 2.
Does the character know they are pregnant? If no, go to 10. If yes, go to 3.
Is the Character going to adventure while Pregnant? If yes, go to 4. If no, go to 5.
Wait, seriously!? Oh gods. You're on your own, mate.
Is the rest of the party okay with 9 months of downtime before the birth? Go to 6 if No, 7 if Yes.
Temporarily retire the character on maternity leave, roll up a new PC to take her place for 9 months, then Go to 7.
Fast forward 9 months. Congrats, it's a boy/girl/other! Go to 8 if the character wants to raise the child herself, 10 if she's going to have an NPC do it.
She's not taking the tyke with her on adventures, is she? Go to 4 if yes, Go to 9 if she's settling down to raise him proper.
Permenantly retire the character to raise her child. Roll up a new PC to replace her. Go to 10.
And the adventures continue! Go to 1.

[Maximus:Ranger]

Because there's just so much raising that's so essential between the age of -1 hour and 3 months old. :smalltongue:



...Why did she let herself get pregnant in the middle of an adventure then? :smallconfused:

Wait, no, better question. Why did you get her pregnant in the middle of an adventure? Especially considering you didn't feel you had everything figured out enough to not need to ask anyone about running it...

First off she's not yet, it's up to her and her husband when they want that to happen. And I'm a bit confused by what you mean by not having everything figured out enough.

[motoko's ghost]

Wait, that's a real thing?!

Yeah, the BoEF and the BoUCK are both official sourcebooks, even if BoEF is 3.0 and I think BoUCK may be even older?(not sure though)

The BoEF has a shout out to dragon fans, because it has a "what's new with Phil&dixie" comic where they finally cover sex&DnD.
BoUCK has one spell though that might be relevant, speeds up pregnancy to 1/10 normal duration(1/50 for CL20) without any harmful side effects.

Both are actually fairly interesting.(I only read it for the articles, I swear :smallamused:)

[Coidzor]

First off she's not yet,

Then why were you objecting to the idea of having it done during downtime on the basis that they were currently dealing with a cult of orcus and couldn't stop? :smallconfused:


it's up to her and her husband when they want that to happen.

Good, advise them to wait for an opportune time.


And I'm a bit confused by what you mean by not having everything figured out enough.

Why did you make the thread? Because you wanted to ask about how to roll with pregnant PCs. From that, I can surmise that you did not have everything worked out completely before you made this thread or else you wouldn't have made it.

[Maximus:Ranger]

Why did you make the thread? Because you wanted to ask about how to roll with pregnant PCs. From that, I can surmise that you did not have everything worked out completely before you made this thread or else you wouldn't have made it.

I thought you meant the reason the wolf lord wants the child. I only wanted suggestions on what penalties the PC should have during her pregnancy (when she is). I also thought you were suggesting skipping the journey to the north. I'm fine if they go after they deal with the main quest, in fact I'd prefer it. I believe there's been some miscommunication.

[The Tygre]

...Why did she let herself get pregnant in the middle of an adventure then? :smallconfused:

Wait, no, better question. Why did you get her pregnant in the middle of an adventure? Especially considering you didn't feel you had everything figured out enough to not need to ask anyone about running it...

Because it's his game. Because he wants to try it, and the players are willing to cooperate. Because life takes twists and turns, and doesn't always follow a pre-recorded set of etiquette and rules. Sometimes that's an unexpected pregnancy that leads to the borealic pilgrimage to the sacred grove of a prehistoric wolf god. These are the things that legends are made of, war-stories to be remembered around the table for years to come. If Ranger wants to try something that few DMs dip into, explore the chance for situational roleplaying and character interaction, push the limits on world development, then by God, I say more power to him. It is the sovereign duty of fellow DMs to not only provide help, but let him explore his own talents and capabilities without discouragement. If he succeeds, then we shall have passed on the sacred knowledge of storytelling to a new brother. If he fails and the entire fiasco goes up in smoke, then he will have learned about his limitations. Such is the way of the DM.

Just so long as doesn't go putting all his eggs into the same uterus. Basket. Right, basket. I meant basket. I said basket... STOP STARING AT ME.

[Maximus:Ranger]

Because it's his game. Because he wants to try it, and the players are willing to cooperate. Because life takes twists and turns, and doesn't always follow a pre-recorded set of etiquette and rules. Sometimes that's an unexpected pregnancy that leads to the borealic pilgrimage to the sacred grove of a prehistoric wolf god. These are the things that legends are made of, war-stories to be remembered around the table for years to come. If Ranger wants to try something that few DMs dip into, explore the chance for situational roleplaying and character interaction, push the limits on world development, then by God, I say more power to him. It is the sovereign duty of fellow DMs to not only provide help, but let him explore his own talents and capabilities without discouragement. If he succeeds, then we shall have passed on the sacred knowledge of storytelling to a new brother. If he fails and the entire fiasco goes up in smoke, then he will have learned about his limitations. Such is the way of the DM.

Just so long as doesn't go putting all his eggs into the same uterus. Basket. Right, basket. I meant basket. I said basket... STOP STARING AT ME.

Thank you Tyger, this is all I ask. If I had a jar of cookies rest assured you would have all of them.

[ThunderCat]

I think the BoEF rules are fine as a base (though I'd probably add a lower endurance too), everything else is mostly fluff. D&D is all about ignoring minor discomforts so it wont be any less realistic than the rest of the game. There are women who don't become particularly nauseated during pregnancy (of course, from what I recall, they tend to have a higher chance of miscarriage, but I sincerely hope you don't plan on having her miscarry anyway) and who keep up physically taxing jobs right until the end, and since adventurers are already extraordinary, it wont be too much of a stretch to have the PC be among the lucky ones who're the least affected.

There's a tendency for people to go overboard with demands of realism whenever something specifically female is introduced to the game (I recall one player insisting that while stuff like urination need never be brought up, it was the height of unrealism if female characters didn't keep track of their periods), which it often ends with them avoiding things like pregnancy altogether, because the only alternative they can see is for even a stiff breeze to cause the delicate female to miscarry. All the while non-pregnant characters are able to fight on full capacity at 1 hp, and never have their concentration impaired by blows to the head or sweat running down their eyes, suffer the loss of limbs, or getting even the most common infections.

The most important thing is your player's ability and willingness to roleplay, not any mechanics. I see no problem with adrenalin rushes causing her to perform at closer-to-full capacity in battle, while she takes better care of herself and roleplays some discomforts the rest of the time. The mechanics aren't really the main aspect of the story you're telling, at not from what I can see.

[gkathellar]

Yeah, the BoEF and the BoUCK are both official sourcebooks, even if BoEF is 3.0 and I think BoUCK may be even older?(not sure though)

BoEF is not an official sourcebook. It's well known, but it's not official.

[jackattack]

Two things.

1. Cravings. Might be funny to send party members out hunting or foraging for very specific food (rabbits, gooseberries, whatever), especially if she sends them right back out for something else.

2. About month four, fitted armor will start getting tight. Month five or six, any armor will be a problem. Another fun bit might be convincing an armorer that they are serious about wanting maternity couir boilli.

----------

I lied. Thing number three. Unless you know for an absolute fact that no one at the table has had any kind of experience with risky pregnancy, miscarriage, abortion, injuries during childbirth, or adoption (on either side of the equation), you can find yourself walking into minefield that nobody knew was there, not even (necessarily) the player who "goes off". No matter how lightheartedly or sensitively the subject is handled.

Good luck.

[Belril Duskwalk]

I think the BoEF rules are fine as a base (though I'd probably add a lower endurance too), everything else is mostly fluff. D&D is all about ignoring minor discomforts so it wont be any less realistic than the rest of the game. There are women who don't become particularly nauseated during pregnancy (of course, from what I recall, they tend to have a higher chance of miscarriage, but I sincerely hope you don't plan on having her miscarry anyway) and who keep up physically taxing jobs right until the end, and since adventurers are already extraordinary, it wont be too much of a stretch to have the PC be among the lucky ones who're the least affected...

...The most important thing is your player's ability and willingness to roleplay, not any mechanics. I see no problem with adrenalin rushes causing her to perform at closer-to-full capacity in battle, while she takes better care of herself and roleplays some discomforts the rest of the time. The mechanics aren't really the main aspect of the story you're telling, at not from what I can see.

To add to this look at things, if you look back a generation or three a lot of people can find a grandmother or great grandmother who will tell a story about how when they were 9 months pregnant they were out milking the cows one day when suddenly their water broke, so they thought 'well, better call the doctor it's time to have a baby.' Now, if a women from the earlier half of the 1900s can do that, how much more capable of pushing through is a mid-level female PC, who by virtue of her profession routinely survives lightning bolts, blasts of fire, and being bitten by creatures whose heads are bigger than her torso.

[Tengu_temp]

I'm kinda facepalming at how much negativity is there in this thread.

We are talking about a fantasy world here. In the early stage of pregnancy where it's not even visible with a naked eye, all that should suffice are potions and/or spells to protect the child - I'm pretty sure BoEF has some, and if it doesn't or you don't want to use that book, homebrewing some or just winging it up and repurposing existing resources shouldn't be difficult at all.

Coordinate with the other players and the DM so that when the current campaign/adventure finishes, the PCs take a well-deserved break for a while - even adventurers don't adventure all the time. When the characters are ready to get back on track, the child should already be born. Hire NPCs who can take care of it when the mother is away - I don't think I make a groundbreaking discovery when I say putting your kid in danger is not something a responsible parent would do.


It's one step above featuring rape in your game.

1. I've written above how to deal with pregnancy in a game.
2. As long as you have the players' permission and approach the matter maturely, there is nothing wrong with having rape in your game. It can be a good sign that a villain is particularily vile, for example. Just usually it's best to keep it strictly a NPC on NPC thing.



[8]She's not taking the tyke with her on adventures, is she? Go to 4 if yes, Go to 9 if she's settling down to raise him proper.
[9]Permenantly retire the character to raise her child. Roll up a new PC to replace her. Go to 10.
[/LIST]

Why is this an all-or-nothing deal? Why can't the character take care of her child when she's at home, and let a hired nanny or someone do so when she's away saving the world? Implying that a woman who has children must focus entirely on raising them and can't follow any career is more than a bit offensive.

[Daftendirekt]

As a rule of thumb, avoid pregnancy as a rotten and diseased corpse.

Seriously. Why does anybody ever want to do this in D&D?

DM: So, what are some goals for your characters?

Bill: My dwarf wants to reclaim his ancestral war axe from the bugbear tribe that murdered his whole clan.

Jack: My paladin just wants to fight and obtain glory for Kord, his god!

Jane My wizard wants to HAVE BABIES!

DM, Bill, and Jack: ...

[Tengu_temp]

Because it's firmly established that heroes never fall in love, start families or have children. Ever.

[Daftendirekt]

Because it's firmly established that heroes never fall in love, start families or have children. Ever.

Do it AFTER YOU'RE DONE ADVENTURING. What kind of mother would endanger her child by continuing to fight hordes of dangerous monsters after she got pregnant? Hell, even if she lived long enough into the pregnancy, the stress of adventuring would probably trigger an early labor and the kid might die anyway. They don't exactly have modern medicine in D&D.

[Tengu_temp]

They have magic that's way more powerful than most modern medicine, though. As I said in my post above, as long as she takes precautions there is nothing wrong with a female PC adventuring in the early stages of pregnancy. Especially if something very important is at stake - you can't raise a child in an exploded world!

[gkathellar]

There was a thread about this a while back. Honestly, she could just go to a fast-time plane and do the whole pregnancy over an afternoon.

[Daftendirekt]

There was a thread about this a while back. Honestly, she could just go to a fast-time plane and do the whole pregnancy over an afternoon.

Right, because all adventurers have deep, intimate knowledge of the planes and how they work. Not only that, they have regular and reliable access to said planes. :smallconfused:

[gkathellar]

Right, because all adventurers have deep, intimate knowledge of the planes and how they work. Not only that, they have regular and reliable access to said planes. :smallconfused:

... Plane Shift? Knowledge (the Planes)?

[Daftendirekt]

... Plane Shift? Knowledge (the Planes)?

Okay. Let's assume not all adventurers are high level wizards/clerics. Yes, many if not most wizards/clerics will have those two things by high levels. However, what if said pregnant female is not a wizard/cleric, or is not high enough level? You're assuming too many things.

[Mordokai]

Seriously. Why does anybody ever want to do this in D&D?

DM: So, what are some goals for your characters?

Bill: My dwarf wants to reclaim his ancestral war axe from the bugbear tribe that murdered his whole clan.

Jack: My paladin just wants to fight and obtain glory for Kord, his god!

Jane My wizard wants to HAVE BABIES!

DM, Bill, and Jack: ...

Nobody said you can't have babies. It's just that, for reasons already mentioned and discussed in depth in this very thread of yonder, it's highy suggested against having babies in the midst of saving the world/plane hopping/exterminating the local tribe of goblins/whathaveyou.


Because it's firmly established that heroes never fall in love, start families or have children. Ever.

Don't you go pulling strawmen on me mister.


Do it AFTER YOU'RE DONE ADVENTURING. What kind of mother would endanger her child by continuing to fight hordes of dangerous monsters after she got pregnant? Hell, even if she lived long enough into the pregnancy, the stress of adventuring would probably trigger an early labor and the kid might die anyway. They don't exactly have modern medicine in D&D.

No, they have spells, which is better. Unless the christmas provided us with a miracle in vicinity of True Ressurection.

And nobody is arguing the player in question can't have a baby after she is done adventuring. We're suggesting it might be a teensy bit bad idea of doing so during adventuring. See the difference?

[Spiryt]

Seriously. Why does anybody ever want to do this in D&D?

DM: So, what are some goals for your characters?

Bill: My dwarf wants to reclaim his ancestral war axe from the bugbear tribe that murdered his whole clan.

Jack: My paladin just wants to fight and obtain glory for Kord, his god!

Jane My wizard wants to HAVE BABIES!

DM, Bill, and Jack: ...

You do know that babies, well..... happen even when wizard do not want them exactly, right?


Noone had really said that one has to play responsible or particularly cautious character...

[Daftendirekt]

Nobody said you can't have babies. It's just that, for reasons already mentioned and discussed in depth in this very thread of yonder, it's highy suggested against having babies in the midst of saving the world/plane hopping/exterminating the local tribe of goblins/whathaveyou.

...

We're suggesting it might be a teensy bit bad idea of doing so during adventuring. See the difference?

...That's exactly what I've been saying myself. I'm not sure why you quoted me as if you were refuting my points, when really you were just agreeing with me. :smallconfused:

[Mordokai]

...That's exactly what I've been saying myself. I'm not sure why you quoted me as if you were refuting my points, when really you were just agreeing with me. :smallconfused:

Because the way you phrased it, it looks like you're saying it's good idea for the player in question(the one OP mentions) to have baby right here and now, consequences be damned.

[Daftendirekt]

What? I said nothing of the sort. I said the exact opposite. Remember this passage that you quoted yourself?


Do it AFTER YOU'RE DONE ADVENTURING. What kind of mother would endanger her child by continuing to fight hordes of dangerous monsters after she got pregnant? Hell, even if she lived long enough into the pregnancy, the stress of adventuring would probably trigger an early labor and the kid might die anyway. They don't exactly have modern medicine in D&D.

[gkathellar]

Okay. Let's assume not all adventurers are high level wizards/clerics. Yes, many if not most wizards/clerics will have those two things by high levels. However, what if said pregnant female is not a wizard/cleric, or is not high enough level? You're assuming too many things.

Every 9th level cleric can plane shift, and they can bring other people along. If you're willing to invest in a pair of scrolls, a wizard can do the same before 13th. So ... no, planar transit is quite doable by mid-levels.

[ThunderCat]

Seriously. Why does anybody ever want to do this in D&D?

DM: So, what are some goals for your characters?

Bill: My dwarf wants to reclaim his ancestral war axe from the bugbear tribe that murdered his whole clan.

Jack: My paladin just wants to fight and obtain glory for Kord, his god!

Jane My wizard wants to HAVE BABIES!

DM, Bill, and Jack: ...


Do it AFTER YOU'RE DONE ADVENTURING. What kind of mother would endanger her child by continuing to fight hordes of dangerous monsters after she got pregnant? Hell, even if she lived long enough into the pregnancy, the stress of adventuring would probably trigger an early labor and the kid might die anyway. They don't exactly have modern medicine in D&D.Seriously, read the OP. It has nothing to do with a PC deciding out of the blue to have babies and raise them herself, the whole idea is to deliver the baby to someone else to raise as part of a deal.

[Coidzor]

You do know that babies, well..... happen even when wizard do not want them exactly, right?


Noone had really said that one has to play responsible or particularly cautious character...

That would require a low Int wizard as well as a low wisdom one to not take precautions while one is an active adventurer.

And if you're playing a low Int wizard....


Okay. Let's assume not all adventurers are high level wizards/clerics. Yes, many if not most wizards/clerics will have those two things by high levels. However, what if said pregnant female is not a wizard/cleric, or is not high enough level? You're assuming too many things.

After you've stopped the cult of orcus from manifesting their demon prince upon the world for keepsies (and doing Orcus a huge favor, because, seriously, permanently trapping Orcus on a single material plane away from the Abyss where he can't effectively rule his demonic powerbase...), you darn well better be.

Though you raise a good point. Everything gets wrapped up nicely and all that's left is RPing once the darn wizard gets teleport or they can afford to nip out and grab a teleport scroll. The DM doesn't have to live with the complicated consequences of his spur of the moment plan but he does get to go through with the narratively important part. And then they can get on with it.


2. As long as you have the players' permission and approach the matter maturely, there is nothing wrong with having rape in your game. It can be a good sign that a villain is particularily vile, for example. Just usually it's best to keep it strictly a NPC on NPC thing.

So you're missing the point that I made about why pregnancy is one step above rape then. Rape is all the things pregnancy is, only worse because it's also both a trigger and a worse thing to fantasize about and want to deal with than murder, because getting one's murder on towards a bunch of faceless, soulless humanoid forms, meh,that's practically socially acceptable.

Wanting to run a rape plot, that's still suspect as to why the person wants to run a rape plot. And, as you said, you have to run it by everyone who is going to be in the game and who might be in the bloody room while you deal with it, or you're going to have a potential storm of drama and bad times that can break games into little tiny metaphorical splinters.

For reference, every single thread about this ever.

[Elric VIII]

Perhaps you can organize some way to alleviate the burden of pregnancy? Here's a sugestion:

One of the parties involved in the deal is an aspect of nature, correct? Use that to your advantage.


Have the guardian tell the PC of a druid/hermit-wisewoman that can aid her in her ordeal.
Set up a short quest to find said wisewoman (obviously in some enchanted forest or somesuch).
Once found, the wisewoman tells the PC of a ritual of fertility that will speed the pregnancy, but the ritual takes a month or two to prepare.*
Upon completion of the ritual, the PC feels a rush of emotion and experiences the joy/hardships/etc of the remainder of the pregnancy in a matter of hours. She feels the collective knowledge and experience of the spirit of motherhood.
The baby is born, the campaign is mostly spared the burden of dealing with a pregnant PC, and the player gets to have her character still grow/learn from the endeavor.


*This is in case you want to allow the player to spend some time adventuring with the pregnancy (to present a unique challenge) before it gets far along enough to have a detrimental effect.

[gbprime]

Because it's firmly established that heroes never fall in love, start families or have children. Ever.

Sure they do. It's the PLAYERS who never want to role play the fact that their actions might have consequences. :smallannoyed:

"Yeah, I spent two weeks in town with that hot barmaid every night... Pregnant?! RAGEQUIT!!!!"

Come to think of it, this is probably why there's an herb under every rock and tree in Faerun that you can chew or drink to avoid this kind of thing...

[gbprime]

Perhaps you can organize some way to alleviate the burden of pregnancy? Here's a sugestion:

One of the parties involved in the deal is an aspect of nature, correct? Use that to your advantage.

Have the guardian tell the PC of a druid/hermit-wisewoman that can aid her in her ordeal.
Set up a short quest to find said wisewoman (obviously in some enchanted forest or somesuch).

and if she's really a wise woman, she'll give you some line about that which is worth doing is worth experiencing. Or perhaps a snarky comment about wanting a potion to speed the kid through teething... Or the terrible twos, or maybe his whole freaking childhood?

No, if your DM includes this as a plot element or is accommodating the wishes of a player who just wants to be a mom, then it's up to the DM to work it in. Adventure for 6 or 7 more months then engineer a 3 to 4 month break that everyone wants to take into the plot. Done.

I mean, seriously. Players will take a 6 week break while the party's item crafter cranks stuff out for them but find it unacceptable to wait for a female character to give birth? At the very least, can't you do both at once?

[Pokonic]

As a rule, make sure she does not go into areas with Far realm creatures in them. :smalleek:

[Eric Tolle]

{{scrubbed}}

My recommendation? Talk with the player FIRST, and see what they want to do. Don't treat this as something to inflict on a player or a "Challenge" to be met. If the player wants to have a pregnant PC, find out what ideas they may have regarding the their condition.

It's a fact that in the real world pregnant women were not treated like hothouse flowers the way they have been post Victorian era; women have done strenuous labor and even fought while pregnant. It's also a fact that the D&D world has magically advanced medicine. Adventuring while pregnant honestly is unlikely to be any more dangerous than adventuring in the first place.

But above all, FIND OUT WHAT YOUR PLAYER WANTS TO DO! Do not, I repeat DO NOT spring any surprises on them, either out of a sense of "drama" or misapplied notions of "realism".

[zlefin]

One thing I don't get; why it would it have to be HER child? The nature spirit may be willing to renegotiate for A child rather than HER child.
It certainly sounded like all it really needed is A child to pass it onto.
I can understand wanting to raise it from birth to ensure it's suitable (though raising from one might suffice).
Finding orphans in a d&d world should be feasible, though finding such a young one might be difficult; still not that hard if a nation has a sizeable population. What with bandits and monsters and such.
This would sidestep alot of the complications.

[Mordokai]

As a rule, make sure she does not go into areas with Far realm creatures in them. :smalleek:

One way ticket to Hentailand, coming up! :smallbiggrin:

[Pokonic]

Meh. Better than what Limbo would do to her insides.:smallbiggrin:

[Roxxy]

There are rules for both pregnancy and parenting in Quintessential Human.

[Maximus:Ranger]

[QUOTE=zlefin;12430035]One thing I don't get; why it would it have to be HER child? The nature spirit may be willing to renegotiate for A child rather than HER child.
It certainly sounded like all it really needed is A child to pass it onto.
I can understand wanting to raise it from birth to ensure it's suitable (though raising from one might suffice).
Finding orphans in a d&d world should be feasible, though finding such a young one might be difficult; still not that hard if a nation has a sizeable population. What with bandits and monsters and such.
This would sidestep alot of the complications.[QUOTE]

He is forbidden from setting foot in civilization plus he doesn't really like people anyways. And most people don't cross his path because one: they fear him and two: He lives really far north so there aren't alot of people there to begin with. He saw an opportunity to find an heir and he took it.

[LansXero]

He is forbidden from setting foot in civilization plus he doesn't really like people anyways. And most people don't cross his path because one: they fear him and two: He lives really far north so there aren't alot of people there to begin with. He saw an opportunity to find an heir and he took it.

I think she meant that instead of becoming pregnant, she could find someone else's recently born child and deliver it to the wolf lord.

[Maximus:Ranger]

I think she meant that instead of becoming pregnant, she could find someone else's recently born child and deliver it to the wolf lord.

Oh yes, my apologies. He wants her to have a personal investment in it. He's not exactly a nice guy and doesn't like what he considers being subservant. If they tried to bring him some other child he probably wouldn't take him/her.

[The Tygre]

You do know that babies, well..... happen even when wizard do not want them exactly, right?


Noone had really said that one has to play responsible or particularly cautious character...

*gasp* Spiryt! Are you implying that maybe, just sometimes... babies aren't planned?! Are you telling me that sometimes pregnancies are *gulp* unexpected?! That even with all the proper measures and control in place, pregnancy can still be possible, no matter how much planning or forethought is put before-hand? And that perhaps, by some dark witchcraft that we can't begin to comprehend, a DM is trying to transplant this possibility into his game to maintain a degree of realism and drama? Ohhh, Prissie! Get me Aunt Pitty-Pat's smelling salts! I do believe I shall faint!


There are rules for both pregnancy and parenting in Quintessential Human.

Mac, you beautiful bastard! Take a gold star! Fie on me for not remembering a third party book first! The one Quintessential book I don't own...

Yes. There are rules for pregnancy in Mongoose's Quintessential Human. Also, rules on variant languages and cultures as racial modifiers. Good stuff overall.

[Roxxy]

I love my copy of Quintessential Human. It's the only one of the Quintessential books I own, and it was worth every penny. I think that the human race needs the degree of flavor that the book gives them.

[Crasical]

Why is this an all-or-nothing deal? Why can't the character take care of her child when she's at home, and let a hired nanny or someone do so when she's away saving the world? Implying that a woman who has children must focus entirely on raising them and can't follow any career is more than a bit offensive.

It's comic book logic. A PC most certainly could do as you suggest and let a hired nanny take care of their child while they are away, but heroes and villains alike tend to make lots of enemies... and superheroes hide their identities to protect their loved ones from danger, PCs rarely do. I, personally, think that the child of a PC is probably safest either with their safely retired adventurer parent, who's not out making more enemies on a day-to-day basis and can protect them, or with the world at large unaware of the fact that they are related.

[Coidzor]

Wow, I should know that a thread titled "Pregnant PCs" would be full of gaming fail, but really the misogyny and ignorance in this thread is something else. "One step above rape"? What the freaking HELL!?

It's now misogynistic to think it's not a good topic for most games to deal with in-depth? :smallannoyed:


One way ticket to Hentailand, coming up! :smallbiggrin:

I dunno, seems more ripe for a situation like The Fly. :smalleek:

Or pick a Lovecraft story.


It's comic book logic. A PC most certainly could do as you suggest and let a hired nanny take care of their child while they are away, but heroes and villains alike tend to make lots of enemies... and superheroes hide their identities to protect their loved ones from danger, PCs rarely do. I, personally, think that the child of a PC is probably safest either with their safely retired adventurer parent, who's not out making more enemies on a day-to-day basis and can protect them, or with the world at large unaware of the fact that they are related.

Don't forget private demiplanes where they're surrounded only by people that they know until they're capable of disemboweling most men with their eyeballs. Like Death's daughter.

[onthetown]

Give the characters some downtime, or say they're doing menial fetch jobs for awhile; let the players skip to eight months later, or nine months minus however long the journey will take.

Three characters and the pregnant madame will then make the pilgrimage to the wolf lord. Turn it into an escort quest for the three characters, and allow the pregnant madame to defend herself if she must. If she's okay with it, she could be a listener or just a roleplayer for said escort. Or, if she's a bit more pro-active like our dear Kazumi from OotS, she can join in the fun.

They reach the wolf lord, escort ends, lady has baby, all is well.

[The Tygre]

It's now misogynistic to think it's not a good topic for most games to deal with in-depth? :smallannoyed:.

No, it's misogynistic that you compared the miracle of life to the atrocity of violation in any way, shape, or form. I don't care it it's for a game, there are no circumstances, none, where that is even remotely excusable. I don't know what kind of games you're playing where 'pregnancy' is one step away from 'rape'.

[gbprime]

I think she meant that instead of becoming pregnant, she could find someone else's recently born child and deliver it to the wolf lord.

Actually, it would be better role playing to have her go through with the pregnancy but then decide that giving the child up was too great a cost. (love and all...). Then the scenario becomes either wolf lord comes to collect his due on the broken bargain or having the PCs try to pass him an orphan and convince him the child is really hers.

[jackattack]

No, it's misogynistic that you compared the miracle of life to the atrocity of violation in any way, shape, or form. I don't care it it's for a game, there are no circumstances, none, where that is even remotely excusable. I don't know what kind of games you're playing where 'pregnancy' is one step away from 'rape'.

I believe they were referring to a link or other source that had been referenced in one of the posts, not the topic of pregnancy itself.

[Coidzor]

^: Pregnancy is a horrible topic to give more than a few minutes of narrative and is especially bad as something to mechanically interact with in game. And it can very easily become emotionally charged with 12 gods only know associations.

Having rape anywhere near one's game is a horrible, horrible idea that makes one's game incapable of being held in a place where anyone not in the game could ever overhear one playing it and paints whoever broached the subject as a very, very unpleasant person at best.


No, it's misogynistic that you compared the miracle of life to the atrocity of violation in any way, shape, or form. I don't care it it's for a game, there are no circumstances, none, where that is even remotely excusable. I don't know what kind of games you're playing where 'pregnancy' is one step away from 'rape'.

What? So you didn't see the clarification or you still feel that way in light of the clarification? :smallconfused:

Pregnancy in games is one level up from the level of the worst things one can cover in detail in a table top game. As in, it's not the worst thing to spend far too much time on, but it's still something that one should not spend too much time on because of myriad factors ranging from drama bombs to triggers to not being able to treat the subject right.

I will not play in a game that features rape. I will not play in a game that does not gloss over pregnancy. Because they're united in one way, that they're both very bad ideas for subjects to cover during a game. Even amongst bad ideas though, some are worse than others. I had thought that was a given.

[TheRinni]

I honestly don’t see a problem with pregnant PCs – unless you consider conflict, character development, and potential plot hooks as “problems.”

I played a CN female PC in my last campaign. She did whatever the hell she felt like, and one of the consequences of that was a child. The DM discussed the possibility with me before hand, and I encouraged it - mostly because I was curious how my character would handle the possibility of motherhood, and looked forward to the development.

My character couldn’t stop adventuring. It was one of those “you’re the chosen ones; you have to save the world,” games. It was also a time-sensitive mission, so the concept of “let’s just skip over the next few months because time doesn’t matter,” simply wasn’t an option.

She carried the baby to term, gave birth, and raised the child. She did this all while adventuring, using the BoEF rules. Potions and spells helped offset the -4 to Dex and -2 to Str. As for taking care of the child once it was born, the entire party wanted to have a part in it. Who can resist an adorable baby? It was never seen as a detriment on the party, only another part of the story. Every character has elements that they bring to the party. One might have strict alignment restrictions on what finds acceptable in companions, another might have made powerful enemies in his backstory, another might have a family....

Bringing this back to the question asked in the original post:
I would just follow the BoEF rules. I would not, under any circumstances, enforce rules of mood swings or cravings. Avoid rules that turn a pregnant PC into a caricature of a pregnant woman. Don’t force the player into performing humorous role-play acrobatics, turning her into little more than comic relief. Let your player role-play her character.

[The Tygre]

What? So you didn't see the clarification or you still feel that way in light of the clarification? :smallconfused:

Pregnancy in games is one level up from the level of the worst things one can cover in detail in a table top game. As in, it's not the worst thing to spend far too much time on, but it's still something that one should not spend too much time on because of myriad factors ranging from drama bombs to triggers to not being able to treat the subject right.

I will not play in a game that features rape. I will not play in a game that does not gloss over pregnancy. Because they're united in one way, that they're both very bad ideas for subjects to cover during a game. Even amongst bad ideas though, some are worse than others. I had thought that was a given.

My apologies then. However, I must vehemently disagree with your outlook on pregnancy. I concede and even support your views on rape, but pregnancy is something completely different. Life is an adventure. We are each of us interconnected, and our experiences and interactions with each other, birth and death, are why stories are told in the first place. A mother bearing child is no different. I do not support 'glossing over' pregnancy. I can see the logic in it, and I certainly would not quit a game over the matter, but I do not like it. It's pregnancy. The continuation of life. All stories since the dawn of time have been about life and death. If you tell a story that only talks about death, that only ever focuses on dying and never on life coming into the world and flourishing, then there is a fatal imbalance.

Secondly, that's nine months of character inactivation. 3/4 of a year. Does the world go on hold because of one character? Do demons and dragons and hordes of undead stop moving for the sake of policy? No. Life moves only forward. If a DM declares in the middle of a campaign that a whole year happens and nothing occurs on any kind of scale... well that's just bad DMing. A world has to have gravity.

Thirdly, if one is going to make the case that pregnancy needs to be avoided to stay away from 'drama' or 'triggers', why not anything else? Why not just deliver the cliff-notes on a dungeon crawl since there's the potential for gruesome death? Why not avoid trying to run kingdoms and introducing politics because of conflicting ideologies? Why not simply avoid selecting a gender altogether just to avoid any potential awkwardness? No, I do not believe that a DM should coddle players right off the bat. Boundaries need to be established at their own pace, discoveries and explorations of the self and others made progressively. A DM has to have faith in his players, and build a world with them, not around them.

Finally, and perhaps most troublingly, what does placing the same amount of taboo on pregnancy as is placed on rape say about tabletop gaming from a feminist perspective? (Yeah, that's right. I'm pulling out the feminism gun.) It does little in helping dispel the portrayal of tabletop gaming as essentially a boys' club not equipped for dealing with femininity, and does even less in portraying gamers as individuals who cannot maturely handle sex, sexuality, or even gender dynamics. And stripped of context, the image painted is, quite frankly, toxic. Now you and I both have the benefit of context and understanding, but the fact is that the rest of the world looking in is going to be significantly less forgiving.

Understand, I respect your opinions, and I'm not trying to get anyone to change their ways. Everybody plays the game their own way, and they are entitled to that. However, I request that you refrain from this discouragement of Ranger's attempt into role-playing with pregnancy. If it fails, then it will fail, and that will be the end of it. If it goes well, then we shall all be richer from the experience.

[Alf Brandybuck]

Alrighty, i believe, as a member of the party with the soon to be pregnant character (not the father however) that there are some penalties to be applicable. In real life a pregnant woman will not be hoisting a mace above her head. I am aware of the magical nature of the world obviously, but encumberments have applied so far, such as lost limbs, organs and sanity. if these are as closely fallowed as we can get, pregnancy should be too. I personally believe that even with the penalties she and the baby will be safe and secure withing the strong, capable albeit clumsy hands of our party. :smallbiggrin:

[Coidzor]

My apologies then. However, I must vehemently disagree with your outlook on pregnancy. I concede and even support your views on rape, but pregnancy is something completely different.

I never said they were the same thing. I said that they were equally inappropriate fodder for gaming groups. You still seem to misunderstand me in your eagerness to defend, of all things, pregnancy as a concept. :smallconfused: I was not aware that a fact of life needed defending.


Life is an adventure. We are each of us interconnected, and our experiences and interactions with each other, birth and death, are why stories are told in the first place. A mother bearing child is no different. I do not support 'glossing over' pregnancy. I can see the logic in it, and I certainly would not quit a game over the matter, but I do not like it. It's pregnancy. The continuation of life. All stories since the dawn of time have been about life and death. If you tell a story that only talks about death, that only ever focuses on dying and never on life coming into the world and flourishing, then there is a fatal imbalance.

So most games are imbalanced. But I don't see them dying because of this, so your argument is kind of rendered invalid by this, unless you're just trying to be clever by restating that things are skewed towards death.


Secondly, that's nine months of character inactivation. 3/4 of a year.

Most of a game wherein one character will be disproporitionally targeted, disproportionally penalized, and have a disproportionate control over the direction and tone of the game.

Further, you're forgetting to drop the 1/6th to 1/3rd of the time that would get cut off as being irrelevant in all but the most hidebound and negative rules sets that could be cobbled together.


Does the world go on hold because of one character?

No, the game goes on hold because of the DM except for stuff in the background, just as with any period of downtime. The same as for any other time that time skips are used. Do demons and dragons and hordes of undead stop moving for the sake of policy? No. Life moves only forward. If a DM declares in the middle of a campaign that a whole year happens and nothing occurs on any kind of scale... well that's just bad DMing. A world has to have gravity.


Thirdly, if one is going to make the case that pregnancy needs to be avoided to stay away from 'drama' or 'triggers', why not anything else?

Because combat is part of the paradigm of most games, to the point where that's something covered by individual groups. So someone with a trigger about violence knows that going into the game. Further, I already covered that rape is a far worse thing and shouldn't be included in any game ever, so you can't really ask this question and have a credible point.

Not so with the players who are just one DM bad decision away from broaching such unpleasant topics as infanticide, abortion, child slavery, which are generally agreed to be, like rape, things that are too bad for the game and are not conducive to any stories worth telling as a group because one is going to fudge it somewhere.


Why not just deliver the cliff-notes on a dungeon crawl since there's the potential for gruesome death? Why not avoid trying to run kingdoms and introducing politics because of conflicting ideologies?

Because those things don't have the same gravity of wrongness and politicized discomfort in our society as things like miscarriage and arguing back and forth about whether pregnant women are completely useless or if they're allowed to contribute to the game after halfway through the second trimester. You know that, so why are you trying to equate these things? It's either kind of disingenuous or out of place to really compare these three things in the eyes of western society, much less gamer culture.


Why not simply avoid selecting a gender altogether just to avoid any potential awkwardness?

What awkwardness? You mean rape? Are you now advocating rape and sexual violence as worthwhile themes to include in the game? Because if not, how exactly is there going to be awkwardness from having a character with a sex in an egalitarian-ish setting? Because if you're instead advocating settings where there's strong sexism such that it dominates the tone of the game, well, that just gets bloody boring after a while and is generally unpleasant and rife for the DM or other players to fudge it into something even worse than it is on the surface.


No, I do not believe that a DM should coddle players right off the bat. Boundaries need to be established at their own pace, discoveries and explorations of the self and others made progressively. A DM has to have faith in his players, and build a world with them, not around them.

And players need faith in their DM, as the DM is the single largest point of failure in any game, and going to be either the sole source of input and narration over such things that one errant idea that's not thought completely through goes straight through unfortunate implications territory into the kind of thing that demands a reaction against it from the players and bystanders.

And woe betide you if, you know, people have differing opinions about politicized topics pertaining to reproduction and those get brought up or even touched upon by the side conversations of the game in reaction to the center stage being taken up by or shared with the pregnancy.


Finally, and perhaps most troublingly, what does placing the same amount of taboo on pregnancy as is placed on rape say about tabletop gaming from a feminist perspective? (Yeah, that's right. I'm pulling out the feminism gun.) Thank you. Really. Thank you.


It does little in helping dispel the portrayal of tabletop gaming as essentially a boys' club not equipped for dealing with femininity, and does even less in portraying gamers as individuals who cannot maturely handle sex, sexuality, or even gender dynamics. And stripped of context, the image painted is, quite frankly, toxic. Now you and I both have the benefit of context and understanding, but the fact is that the rest of the world looking in is going to be significantly less forgiving.

The fact is that the rest of the world wouldn't be looking in on what exactly is or is not featured in people's individual games.

Further, it is better for them not to deal with toxic subject matter or subject matter that is nothing but landmines and pitfalls than to step on them and blow the game apart or end up dealing with it in game and have someone overhear them talking about rape or the horrible consequences of miscarriage or demons ripping open the pregnant PC's womb and have that color their perceptions of gamers and pass that on to their local rumor mill.


Everybody plays the game their own way, and they are entitled to that. However, I request that you refrain from this discouragement of Ranger's attempt into role-playing with pregnancy. If it fails, then it will fail, and that will be the end of it. If it goes well, then we shall all be richer from the experience.

The principle reason for my discouragement is that if he's going to do it he had best be so ironclad that nothing could discourage him and to make sure he thinks things through. Because if he doesn't think things through, if he's careless, well, that's even worse than a little bit of wounded pride over a portion of the internet not being just in love with the idea he just had.

[Maximus:Ranger]

Alrighty, i believe, as a member of the party with the soon to be pregnant character (not the father however) that there are some penalties to be applicable. In real life a pregnant woman will not be hoisting a mace above her head. I am aware of the magical nature of the world obviously, but encumberments have applied so far, such as lost limbs, organs and sanity. if these are as closely fallowed as we can get, pregnancy should be too. I personally believe that even with the penalties she and the baby will be safe and secure withing the strong, capable albeit clumsy hands of our party. :smallbiggrin:

You stay out of this Brandybuck!:smallannoyed:

[Maximus:Ranger]

To Coidzor

Sir, please I didn't post this to start an argument about the moral implications of having a pregnant player character. I simply wanted to know what the stat penalties would be. If you don't agree with what I'm doing well...I can't do anything to change your opinion. However I'd appreciate it if you 1. Didn't assume that I spur of the moment clumsily decided "Hey, you're going to have to be pregnant now!" Alot of thought was put into what that characters end of the bargain was going to be, and 2. Just not post here if you don't agree with something I or anyone else posts. Again I'm looking for suggestions not lectures, and I really am sorry that you think what I'm doing is wrong and if it does become a problem I will learn from the mistake I made and post that I made a mistake so you can tell me that you told me so.

[DoctorGlock]

Look, if you need penalties, also go for temporary counters to them.

Movement penalty? Freedom of Movement counters
Exhaustion/ability penalty? Restoration

[Helldog]

Maybe try imposing penalties for having medium load (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/carryingCapacity.htm#tremendousStrength)?

[illyrus]

As the poster above me said I'd just go with the load penalties as it progressed.

I'd probably have a simple miscarriage system of each round she spends in the Dying state she has a chance (maybe 10%) of losing the baby until she exits that state. I'd also rule that for game mechanics purposes the baby is not a separate entity until birth. Otherwise I think you could have some really unexpected weird questions pop up with magic, especially transmutation spells.

For when the pregnancy becomes obvious, I'd have creatures that are specifically opposed to life (such as servants of Orcus) probably put her a bit higher on their targeting priority list.

[DoctorGlock]

I'd probably have a simple miscarriage system of each round she spends in the Dying state she has a chance (maybe 10%) of losing the baby until she exits that state.

Don't do this. Players should not deal with random quest failure outside of their own control which is what this amounts to. 10% per round of utterly and randomly ruining a character defining quest line and multiple session plot is a bad idea.

[illyrus]

Don't do this. Players should not deal with random quest failure outside of their own control which is what this amounts to. 10% per round of utterly and randomly ruining a character defining quest line and multiple session plot is a bad idea.

I'd view it as pretty easy to control. Don't go below 0 hp. Everyone in the party chips in a little bit. Players already deal with random quest failure when they go just a few negative HP further and their characters die.

[DoctorGlock]

I'd view it as pretty easy to control. Don't go below 0 hp. Everyone in the party chips in a little bit. Players already deal with random quest failure when they go just a few negative HP further and their characters die.

There are plenty of myriad ways to raise the dead and contingencies to prevent dying even once you hit the 0 mark. Protecting the baby... less so. Sometime realism must be sacrificed for the sake of everyone having fun.

[Coidzor]

There are plenty of myriad ways to raise the dead and contingencies to prevent dying even once you hit the 0 mark. Protecting the baby... less so. Sometime realism must be sacrificed for the sake of everyone having fun.

Yeah, miscarriage? One of those areas that you are not good enough to deal with properly. Don't pull a Buckley on us.


To Coidzor

*ahem* Case. In. Point.


I'd probably have a simple miscarriage system of each round she spends in the Dying state she has a chance (maybe 10%) of losing the baby until she exits that state. I'd also rule that for game mechanics purposes the baby is not a separate entity until birth. Otherwise I think you could have some really unexpected weird questions pop up with magic, especially transmutation spells.

[Mystic Muse]

Yeah, miscarriage? One of those areas that you are not good enough to deal with properly.


Yeah, seriously. If you're going to do a pregnancy in the game, don't bring miscarriage into it. This is not something most players would EVER consider acceptable. I know that if I'd been in a game where this happened, I'd strongly consider leaving the campaign, and would definitely either talk to my DM about it, or send a message about it.

[illyrus]

There are plenty of myriad ways to raise the dead and contingencies to prevent dying even once you hit the 0 mark. Protecting the baby... less so. Sometime realism must be sacrificed for the sake of everyone having fun.

I think that its a fairly common concept in entertainment media that an expectant mother when grievously wounded might lose the baby but live herself.

I think there should be some small risk to the child. Unless the critter that drops her goes right before her in the initiative order, then probably a PC can act and stabilize her (thus taking her out of the dying state). Even if not then she can attempt to stabilize on her own (low chance of success unless you're using the variant rules). If she fails that then she has to make another check and risk the death of the baby (the same low chance). So fairly unlikely to make the check. Also if the party knows that is how it works they can easily rearrange the initiative order to make sure a character or two gets to go between any critters and the expectant mother.

And yes, against the odds it may happen, I see that as a roleplaying opportunity and not the death of the campaign.

[Coidzor]

I think that its a fairly common concept in entertainment media that an expectant mother when grievously wounded might lose the baby but live herself.

No, not really, most media knows that such graphic content as a violent miscarriage is rarely conducive to a story, so they don't really have it that often except as pure, raw shock.


I think there should be some small risk to the child. Unless the critter that drops her goes right before her in the initiative order, then probably a PC can act and stabilize her (thus taking her out of the dying state). Even if not then she can attempt to stabilize on her own (low chance of success unless you're using the variant rules). If she fails that then she has to make another check and risk the death of the baby (the same low chance). So fairly unlikely to make the check. Also if the party knows that is how it works they can easily rearrange the initiative order to make sure a character or two gets to go between any critters and the expectant mother.

And yes, against the odds it may happen, I see that as a roleplaying opportunity and not the death of the campaign.

Indeed, it doesn't kill it, it just consumes the entirety of the campaign. But we're retreading old ground, this time with examples rather than generalities.

[illyrus]

To Coidzor:
I guess I just have seen/read a different selection of entertainment media that you.

I don't have a problem with a chance of failure with any actions. If there was something that has no chance of failure then it really should be glossed over in a game where dice are rolled to determine the outcome of events. Especially in a world where even death is barely more than a minor inconvenience and you have undead babies as monsters. You're going to have to deal with the possibility if the expectant mother dies anyway, will raise dead bring back both her and the child etc? Unless you want to grant the mother plot invulnerability for the duration of the pregnancy then bad stuff happening has a chance of coming up. I think that unless you're willing to deal with the possibility of the death of the child you probably shouldn't have adventuring expectant mothers.

I know you disagree with the concept of dealing with pregnancy in the game, the OP doesn't agree and wants to go ahead. I provided what I thought would be a reasonable option. People disagreed but the thing is that there are a myriad of spells and possibilities in D&D where the GM can be faced with the option of the baby dieing and or else having to in an obvious manner hand of god several things. Better to lay out the possibility of failure at the beginning where everyone can either agree to it or say "we don't want to do this" than have it come up unexpectedly mid campaign.

[Mephit]

So to recap:


The Book of Erotic Fantasy has some rules for pregnancy. They are as follows:

1st Trimester - No penalties
2nd Trimester - Movement reduced by 1/4 (round down), -2 Dex
3rd Trimester - Movement reduced by 1/2, -4 Dex, -2 Strength.

That in itself is already a pretty harsh penalty. I'd relay this to your players, and see if they're ok with it.

If not, you can include -2/-4/-6 penalties to various physical skill checks like Tumble/Jump/Climb/etc, -1/-2/-3 penalties to attack rolls and if they're really for realism, have them roll for nausea. (Being male, I'm not going to risk proposing a mechanic for that.)

Protection for the child might be necessary. Your Cleric might need to burn some spell slots every day to keep it from harm while mommy's clobbering goblins. Finding knowledge of the spell in a Love God's temple might make for an interesting encounter. :smallwink:

The BoEF is very bried about the subject, honestly, and only spends a page or two in total to discuss the subject. I suppose you should give us some information on how realistic you want to make this - realistically, a pregnant humanoid woman is not able to perform the physical feats adventurers perform on a daily basis.

[nyjastul69]

I've only read the first page of this thread. I have never posted to a thread I have never read in its entirety, on this board, or any other. I feel strangely compelled to so here however.

I don't see much of a difference, realistically speaking, from a pregnant character being able to act fully during any trimester of pregnancy than I do a character being able to say GreatGooglyMoogly, chuckin' the bird, having a bit o'bat dung consumed in the process and then a fireball shoots from his/her bum.

I don't think realism should be the primary concern. D&D doesn't do realism well. I'd let the character play while pregnant. The D&D rules have some history of discriminating againt women. I don't see a reason to continue it. Of course YMMV.

Edit: I just finished reading the thread. I have no further comments.

[Snowbluff]

2. As long as you have the players' permission and approach the matter maturely, there is nothing wrong with having rape in your game. It can be a good sign that a villain is particularily vile, for example. Just usually it's best to keep it strictly a NPC on NPC thing.


My Clericzilla would agree that ra- that is never a good idea. My infraction says so.

[Maximus:Ranger]

It's a boy.

[GreenSerpent]

I don't see much of a difference, realistically speaking, from a pregnant character being able to act fully during any trimester of pregnancy than I do a character being able to say GreatGooglyMoogly, chuckin' the bird, having a bit o'bat dung consumed in the process and then a fireball shoots from his/her bum.


Sigged. Heh heh heh.

[Roland St. Jude]

It's a boy.Sheriff of Moddingham: Don't bump threads.