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Zaydos
2011-12-25, 12:41 AM
Not feeling up to fluff at the moment (on my way to bed), but a lot of people have requested LA +0 fey races and I have the brewin' flu so I'm making one and I'll post fluff after I get the crunch sorted out with some of that good ol' fashion PEACH cobbler you can get round these parts (yes the flu is affecting my brain).

Brownie Racial Traits:

Fey type: Brownies are fey; they are not humanoids and therefore immune to effects which target humanoids.
Small size: Due to their small size brownies gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls and AC, and a +4 bonus on hide checks; they also suffer a -4 penalty to grapple and several combat options as defined in the individual combat options.
Speed 20-ft: Brownies are small creatures and not as fast as the bigger folk.
-2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Cha: Brownies are small and frail but agile and with powerful sparks of spirit. They are amiable souls who find it easy to get along with others, and have a natural talent for sorcery.
Cold Iron Vulnerability (Ex): Cold iron disrupts a brownie's natural magic which is one with their body. A brownie takes an extra 2 points of damage from cold iron weapons.
+2 to Bluff, Survival, and Move Silently: Brownies are agile creatures, able to move with padded feet. As creatures intone with the natural world they have a wide breadth of knowledge about where to find food and shelter. As fey, even friendly fey, they are capable tale spinners.
+2 to craft checks which do not deal with metal: Brownies are adept at repairing and creating non-metal items, able to quickly understand and replicate such items they should encounter.
Woodland Stride (Ex): A brownie passes through the forest as easily as the beaten path. This ability functions like the druid ability of the same name.
Spell-like Abilities: 1/day, caster level is equal to character level; Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, Mending (non-ferrous items only), and Speak with Animals. A brownie must have a Charisma of 10 or higher to use these abilities. A brownie is a fey, fully capable of acting as such. They are also known for repairing goods and materials, making deals with friendly humanoids in exchange for manufactured goods.
Automatic Languages: Common, Sylvan.
Bonus Languages: Elven, Gnomish, Goblin, Halfling, Orc, Terran.
LA: +0.
Favored Class: Warlock.

Debihuman
2011-12-25, 08:13 AM
Sorry but I still see that as a LA +1 race.

Debby

Darthteej
2011-12-25, 01:25 PM
Sorry but I still see that as a LA +1 race.

Debby

The fact that there's an inherent +4 vs -2 ability scores is grounds for level adjustment on it's own, especially combined with these abilities.

Zeta Kai
2011-12-25, 02:33 PM
This is rather borderline, if you ask me. The real tipping point, IMO, is the Damage Reduction. If you get rid of that, then I would argue that LA+0 is fine, but with the DR, this critter is probably just over the edge, into LA+1 territory.

NeoSeraphi
2011-12-25, 02:40 PM
I'd say that if you made it broader, like DR/Magic or Cold Iron, it could stay. It wouldn't come up that often, but when it did you'll be glad you had it. Just like most racial traits.

Noctis Vigil
2011-12-25, 02:41 PM
I honestly don't see this as any better or worse than a Gnome, what with the weakness to cold iron. The stats even themselves out fairly well (-2 Str -2 Con will hurt melee combat, +2 Dex will help a little with ranged combat, +2 Cha will help if he goes for spontaneous casting of some sort), and the abilities he gets aren't that powerful. Actually, now I look at them and compare, I think the gnome might be better overall, racial ability-wise. I see no problems making this LA0. Well done sir.

Flickerdart
2011-12-25, 02:44 PM
The important question is, are they delicious? :smallbiggrin:

NeoSeraphi
2011-12-25, 02:58 PM
The important question is, are they delicious? :smallbiggrin:

I bet that +2 Charisma will help the presentation!

Zeta Kai
2011-12-25, 03:35 PM
I'd say that if you made it broader, like DR/Magic or Cold Iron, it could stay. It wouldn't come up that often, but when it did you'll be glad you had it. Just like most racial traits.

"Wouldn't come up that often"? What?! Are you saying that Damage Reduction wouldn't come up often?!? 'Cause I think it'll come up often. Very often. Like, every round of combat often.

That's a very powerful ability for a low-level character (1-5 ECL), & will still be somewhat relevant even at mid levels (6-10 ECL). It'll come up in play more often than flight, or burrow, or powerful build, which are guaranteed LA+1 abilities.

Noctis Vigil
2011-12-25, 04:04 PM
However, unlike things like flight, DR1 becomes next to useless at high levels when things are sneezing too hard and hitting you accidentally for 300 damage. Yes, it will be very useful at low levels, but most of the racial abilities just aren't that useful, and really not worth LA1. I don't see it as any worse than Gnomes +4 to AC against giants or Halflings +1 on all saves.

ericgrau
2011-12-25, 04:22 PM
Eh even then it's 120 damage over 5 attacks, so it semi-scales. It roughly equals 10-20% more HP at low levels and even at high levels it's 5% more HP. That's pretty darn good, almost like +2 con on average or at least +1 later.

The main thing are the ability scores. A mental stat, plus dex, plus small size makes for a good caster, especially a ray caster. The grey elf is often the race of choice for wizard because it has similar stats; grey elf is already high for LA 0. And it doesn't even get small size and all the other bonuses... it only gets minor elf stuff.

You could perhaps keep the ability scores if it had nothing else at all, not even minor things, but as-is it needs to lose at least something. I'd say dump the DR but keep the vulnerability (which will rarely come up anyway), and get rid of one of the +2s or drop str to -4. Str is still a dump stat but at least he'll feel it slightly in his carrying capacity. You could also do -4 con and keep the DR and both +2s, but I don't like such things as it makes them very strong against X and very weak against Y. Better to keep everything moderate and avoid big boosts like double +2s/mental +2s/DR and big nerfs like -4s when possible.

Zeta Kai
2011-12-25, 08:27 PM
However, unlike things like flight, DR1 becomes next to useless at high levels when things are sneezing too hard and hitting you accidentally for 300 damage. Yes, it will be very useful at low levels, but most of the racial abilities just aren't that useful, and really not worth LA1. I don't see it as any worse than Gnomes +4 to AC against giants or Halflings +1 on all saves.

Inherent flight from level 1 is a big deal, but becomes less so later, as well. Think of it this way: at low levels, you normally have ZERO methods of achieving flight. You can't fly. At all.

Later, at higher levels, you gain access to more & more methods of achieving flight. Spells, magic items, etc., so your inherent flight is not that important. By level 10 or so, it is assumed that you have some method, so adventure design takes that into account. At level 2, the dungeons just aren't designed to deal with adventurers who have fly over danger, nor should they be.

The TL;DR version is this: Getting nice things before anyone else is why LA exists. It's not a great system, or even a good system, but dealing with early access to superpowers is why that system exists. And DR is a nice thing deserving of LA+1. That's just a simple fact.

Zaydos
2011-12-26, 01:58 AM
Dropped the DR, left the vulnerability, added a +2 to craft checks when dealing with non-metal items because I associate human-friendly fey with making things (shoes mainly), and a clause that their mending sla doesn't work on ferrous objects. Thinking about tinkering with ability scores, might drop the Dex mod, but I feel a small fey should have a strength penalty and -2 Str does not equal out with +2 Cha (-2 Con though might).


The fact that there's an inherent +4 vs -2 ability scores is grounds for level adjustment on it's own, especially combined with these abilities.

I don't know where they have a +4 vs -2 ability scores as they have always had +2 to 2 abilities scores (one mental), and -2 to 2 ability scores (one of which is Con). Same ability score modifiers as grey elves.


The important question is, are they delicious? :smallbiggrin:

They are fey. All fey are delicious, it goes without saying. Some are just harder to catch than others.

Thugorp
2011-12-26, 07:16 AM
Hi, :-)

First I love fay, thanks for making one that can easily be played as a race. Maybe now my female players will stop picking Nymphs... probably not though :-( :-)

Any way: First things first, I would like to preface this by saying that the folk-lore having to do with Brownies is not very familiar to me... which is odd because I rarely run into any fictional race of thing that I don't know about. That said, from the way you are building them they seem to fall into the category of forest dwelling human helpers. ... all of my comments here are coming from that interpretation.

To me this still still seems a bit strong for LA+0, which is unfortunate because I also think there is one attribute they are missing.

First I think they are lacking a bonus to knowledge nature. You make mention that they are in-tune with nature but then if I were to ask the average one to identify a raccoon they would only be able to do so about 50% of the time. I would suggest maybe giving them a trait which would make Knowledge nature always be a class skill. I would probably give them intrinsic +6s to Knowledge nature as well.

As I said the race does already seem perhaps just over the LA+0 mark(though that doesn't necessarily make them good enough for LA+1 either) I think I would also add a minor dependency. Why not make the only food these things can get nutrients from berries and nuts, in order to survive a make it so that a browny is required to eat 1lb. of berries(1/4lb. dried berries) or 2lb. of nuts(or some combination) every time she would otherwise be required to eat.

I figure this is somewhat annoying for players as in desert or tundra settings, but on the other hand the A&AG has listings for dried berries and nuts so they can always be bought. Oh! and the +2 they already get in survival should help them find the nuts & berries anyway! :-)

just my 2 cents. :-)