[3.5] 2H, no power attack.

[Smeggedoff]

Heyo folks.
Quick question because googling hasn't provided me an answer so far.
What's a good focus for a pure warblade using a 2 handed weapon that's not power attack?
Our party already has a power attack focused frenzied berserker so I don't want to step on toes.
I'm considering Trip or something.
Or is this just a bad idea overall?

(I'm not looking for builds, but party level is 24 if you want an idea of where I'm starting from)

[Cespenar]

A lot of stuff in the Tome of Battle can be fitted to any weapon combination you want to have. You can initiate Strike of Perfect Clarity with a toothpick and still deal that +100 damage. So just play whatever you find cool, I guess.

By the way, the whole deal of 2H is power attack. Perhaps with an Elven Courtblade, you can make a Dex-based two-hander, but other than that, the only bonus they get is a +4 bonus on Disarm attempts because of a larger weapon. And Disarm is not a very optimal move, except for looking cool, or on the occasion that the whole setting is filled with weapon using humanoids.

I'd say play a leader or tactician type (White Raven focused) Warblade and buff that ally of yours into an even sillier killing machine.

[Necroticplague]

Try going for a battlefield control build, using a spiked chain. Select a large race so you can use Large and in Charge, take Hold the Line, Stand Still, Combat Reflexes, and Improved Trip.

[Smeggedoff]

The reason I specified 2 hander was because I was originally going to go with some Half-minotaur-enlarge-person-strongarm-bracers-weild-oversized-weapon-Platinum-Fullblade Hijinks

Swapping out fullblade for spiked chain would make more sense for a trip build though, even if it would stop me from trading each one of those d8's for a pair of d6's

question: I know monkey grip doesn't stack with size increasers like strongarm bracers etc (and that it doesn't actually allow you to wield larger weapons) but would it let me use a spiked chain one handed?

I doubt it's worth taking even if it would but I gotta ask.

[gkathellar]

You shouldn't want to wield it one-handed, even if you can. You'll end up trading a feat for negative damage.

[Smeggedoff]

Yeah. Stupid question, I was just wondering. Good point abotu the reduced damage though.

[Seerow]

The reason I specified 2 hander was because I was originally going to go with some Half-minotaur-enlarge-person-strongarm-bracers-weild-oversized-weapon-Platinum-Fullblade Hijinks

Swapping out fullblade for spiked chain would make more sense for a trip build though, even if it would stop me from trading each one of those d8's for a pair of d6's

question: I know monkey grip doesn't stack with size increasers like strongarm bracers etc (and that it doesn't actually allow you to wield larger weapons) but would it let me use a spiked chain one handed?

I doubt it's worth taking even if it would but I gotta ask.

You got it backwards. Monkey Grip DOES let you use larger weapons, but does NOT let you use them as a different category. So you could use a large longsword in one hand, or a large greatsword in two hands. But you can't use a medium greatsword in one hand.

Also, your whole ridiculously oversized weapon thing can be completely trumped by a single low level spell (Greater Mighty Wallop), and is objectively terrible compared to just power attacking. I'd recommend if you must have a two handed weapon without power attack, put your focus 100% into battlefield control and don't worry about damage. Pick up the different feats/stances that make it so the enemy gives you AoOs no matter what he does, improved trip, standstill, etc.

[Smeggedoff]

Greater mighty wallop is all well and good, apart from a couple of points.

1. It only works on bludgeoning weapons. (iirc)
2. I'd need to be able to cast it OR have a custom magic item to cast it for me (at the moment my build consists of warblade 20/swordsage 3)
3. It doesn't have the thematic feel of carrying around a giant weapon ;P

Thanks for pointing it out though, I only know it exists because I used it with my power attack gish in a planescape game I played last year.

Also, cheers on the monkey grip point, I get the idea monkey grip confuses a lot of people >_>

edit: your battlefield control thing is super valid too, I'll probably end up doing this, just gotta read up on white raven stuff

[ericgrau]

It depends on optimization level. Yeah if you have shock trooper and/or leap attack available then power attack becomes essential. Otherwise it's fairly mediocre and ok to skip, because 1 attack bonus is almost as good as 2 damage and the benefit from each -1/+2 is miniscule. I'd never go beyond -4/+8 in fact and later -2/+4. Even more later 1 AB will become better than 2 damage and the feat will become obsolete without the other mentioned feats. It becomes obsolete fairly early on full attacks while single attacks come later, since secondaries are more likely to miss.

Yeah alternative options include reach, combat reflexes, and tripping. Then you add on to that either rage or the fighter tree (or dip both) for more attack bonus and damage. Boots of speed are good for haste and then you can focus more on full attacks. Especially if you have a reach weapon and can 5 foot step to engage the next foe. Consider a guisarme or spiked chain. If you fight a lot of weaponed foes then you can fairly easily tack on disarming after that.

In fact good items like boots of speed and gloves/belt of strength let you rely on a masterwork weapon longer, so you can load up on 2-3 metal types for facing unusual foes, maybe getting oil of magic weapon or a +1 for DR/magic. Perhaps silver, bludgeoning and magic for your catch-all vampire/litch/devil/skeleton/etc. hunting. Though at lower levels I go cheap and only buy non-masterwork silver armor spikes. Once you get to higher levels, say 12+, then you focus on a more significant magic weapon and stop upgrading the golf bag of weapons.

[Smeggedoff]

Optimization varies. The reason I don't want to take power attack is because our lion barbarian/frenzied berserker already has, she didn't take shock trooper though.
We also have a planar shepherd, an iaijutsu factotum, a pathfinder pistoleer and a Psion who has literally made himself unkillable as long as he has power points.
So... yeah.

So I'm resisting the urge to play an optimized build and am looking to have fun with a pure warblade.

[ericgrau]

Boots of speed tripper warblade then? I think there's a maneuver to get around DR so you can skip the golf bag of weapons. Warblade + tripping is somewhat optimized but nothing like a 1,000 damage charger. I think it could work well within the party range without going too over the top.