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View Full Version : Leoithne (P.E.A.C.H): A 3.5 fey creature (W.I.P.); please help



ShriekingDrake
2011-12-25, 02:37 PM
Every now and then, you run into an interesting word that looks and sounds like it should be a D&D creature. Well, this week I stumbled upon the word “leoithne”, which is an Irish word (pronounced “Lowneh”) that means the breeze that causes ripples on a lake or pond. So, I let my mind wander and here’s what I’ve come up with. The stat block is incomplete—and I could use some help with that—and I need some help with balancing and fleshing it out.


http://lhs204.stellpflug.com/Period%206/Yadira%20Curiel%20Perez/Images/wind_fairy1.jpg
LEOITHNE
Size/Type: Small fey (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#feyType) (air, incorporeal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#incorporealSubtype))

HD: 6d6 (27 hp)
Initiative: +8
Speed: fly 60 ft. (perfect)

Armor Class: 19 (+4 dex, +4 deflection, +1 small), touch 19, flat-footed 15 

Base Attack/Grapple: 
+3/--
Attack: Static Touch +8 melee (1/HD)
Full Attack: Static Touch +8 melee (1/HD)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.

Special Attacks: Static Touch
Special Qualities: Airsense 60 ft., Spell Resistance 17, immune to electricity and air effects, resistance cold 10, incorporeal subtype, DR10/cold iron, air effects, trickery effects
Saves:: 
Fort +2, Ref +9, Will +8 

Abilities: Str --, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 19
Skills: Bluff +13, Concentration +12, Diplomacy +15, Hide +17, Listen +12, Search +12, Sense Motive +12, Sleight of Hand +15, Spot +12
Feats: Improved Initiative, Combat Reflexes, Flyby Attack, (9: Adroit Flyby Attack, 12: Deft Opportunist, 15: Track, 18: Great Flyby Attack)
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 8
Treasure: Standard, no weapons
Alignment: Usually neutral good
Advancement: 7-11HD (Tiny), 12-16HD (Diminutive), 17-20HD (Fine)
Level Adjustment: --

Leoithne (pronounced “Lowneh”) are incorporeal sprites who relish directing the falling leaves, rustling the field weeds, and rippling the waters with a subtle, mysterious breeze. They possess a variety of special abilities related to the manipulation of air, the wind, and weather. They relish using their air manipulation abilities to trick, confusticate, and bewilder intelligent creatures they encounter—often from places of hiding, just out of sight. Their mercurial, whimsical natures are not mean-spirited—though they can be agitated to act with some spite—and they can tease other creatures with puffs of air, flying objects, etc. at some length without exhausting their appetite for dalliance. They tend to follow their quarry, making mischief for some time, until they are ready to desist.

As incorporeal creatures, they are a bit like the wind itself, unable to be harmed or deterred by most creatures. They have been known to make clever comments as they let frustrated creatures swing endlessly through their insubstantial forms. To the eye, they appear as small, wingless, sprites with pointed ears and impish grins.

Leoithne tend to avoid fighting, unless vexed. Once vexed, they use their air effects, spell-like abilities, and incorporeal static touch attack to drive away what has irked them. It is rare for them to seek to kill an opponent. While they don’t use weapons, they do like to collect treasures, which they tend to store in natural places in hidden piles.

Static Touch (Ex): For Leoithne, the only means of physical attack comes in the form of a static shock (electricity), which they deliver as an incorporeal touch attack, once per successfully attacked opponent per turn (in addition they may use Static Touch any number of times when they can make attacks of opportunity). This attack deals 1 hit point/hit die with no bonuses to damage from ability scores.

Airsense (Ex): Because of their inherent connectedness to the air, Leoithne can sense their surroundings with a great deal of detail. Within a range of 60 ft, Leoithne have immediate knowledge of the exact shape, location, and texture of everything in contact with the air, despite darkness, invisibility, concealment, or the like. Airsense requires neither line of sight or line of effect to operate, only a connection to the air. Within range, Leoithne need not make spot or listen checks nor, typically, can they be flanked, surprised, or sneak attacked. They can, usually, incorporate information they receive from Airsense with other senses to distinguish between visible, invisible, hiding, and concealed creatures or objects.

Air Effects (Su): Leoithne have, as an innate aptitude, the ability to affect the wind and climate as a caster of a level equal to its HD according to the table below. {table=head]HD|Ability|Times/Day
1|Darsson's Cooling Breeze (http://dndtools.eu/spells/shining-south--25/darssons-cooling-breeze--3273/)|At will
3|Gust of Wind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gustOfWind.htm)|3
5|Wind Wall (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/windWall.htm)|3
7|Boreal Wind (http://dndtools.eu/spells/frostburn--68/boreal-wind--1268/)|3
9|Control Winds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/controlWinds.htm)|2
11|Sandstorm (http://dndtools.eu/spells/sandstorm--85/sandstorm--3136/)|2
13|Control Weather (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/controlWeather.htm)|2
15|Whirlwind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/whirlwind.htm)|1
17|Elemental Swarm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/elementalSwarm.htm) (Air only)|1 [/table]

Trickery Effects (Sp): Leoithne have, as an innate aptitude, the ability to use--upon reaching the appropriate HD--spell-like abilities to deceive, provoke, befuddle, and the like, according to the table below (as a sorcerer of a level equal to the Leoithne's HD). {table=head]HD to Use|Ability|Times/Day
1|Mage Hand (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mageHand.htm)|At Will
1|Dancing Lights (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dancingLights.htm)|3
1|Ghost Sound (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ghostSound.htm)|3
3|Silent Image (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/silentImage.htm)|3
3|Ventriloquism (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ventriloquism.htm)|2
5|Suggestion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/suggestion.htm)|2
6|Mage Hand, Greater (http://dndtools.eu/spells/magic-of-faerun--20/greater-mage-hand--1761/)|2
8|Hallucinatory Terrain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/hallucinatoryTerrain.htm)|1
9|Modify Memory (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/modifyMemory.htm)|1
10|Telekinesis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/telekinesis.htm)|1
[/table]

Advancement: As Leoithne advance, they actually get physically smaller. Beginning at 7HD: Leoithne add 10 ft. to their base fly speed and Airsense ability at odd levels and they add 1 to their Spell Resistance 17 at each level. The feats Leointhe get as they advance are listed in the parentheses in the stat block.

Leoithne speak Auran, Common, and Sylvan.


http://www.poxpulse.com/images/large/wind_sprinter_270x310.jpg
Edits:
-manifested strength
-adjusted stats
-Damage Reduction
+Changed Touchsight to Airsense to address Debby's psionic concern.
+adjusted skill bonuses in stat block
+adjusted treasure linein stat block
+bumped it to six HD (making appropriate adjustments)
+spell-like abilities
-+made the spell-like abilities into supernatural abilities and put them in a table.
+added use levels to the trickery abilities
+adjusted strength from 0 to --
+tweaked attributes a little

Noctis Vigil
2011-12-25, 02:58 PM
This looks really interesting. I notice the stats say they have "Str 7 manifested". Can they take a physical form, then? I don't see this listed in their abilities list.

ShriekingDrake
2011-12-25, 03:08 PM
This looks really interesting. I notice the stats say they have "Str 7 manifested". Can they take a physical form, then? I don't see this listed in their abilities list.

Thanks.

I was thinking that if they faced another incorporeal creature or if they were forced into non-corporeal form that a strength score would help. Maybe I should just drop that or simply list the strength score as 7. I suppose, I could also ad an ability to manifest themselves . . . that's an interesting idea. If we went that route, I suppose it could look like something like this:

Natural Incorporeality (Ex): Leoithne are normally incorporeal, but may, at will, fully manifest themselves for up to a total 10 minutes/HD each day.
 Leoithne must stay either incorporeal or manifested for a minimum of 1 round before changing, but may change each round, if they so choose.

. . . or maybe this is not such a good idea. I don't know.

Noctis Vigil
2011-12-25, 03:21 PM
I like it. :smallsmile: That would be really cool, and much nicer if you honestly plan to have low level parties meeting/fighting these things (which you seem intent on).

Also, this seems more like a race to me. Would it be possible to stack class levels in something on this? If so, would class HD stack with the fey HD to determine the power of his abilities?

ShriekingDrake
2011-12-25, 05:56 PM
I like it. :smallsmile: That would be really cool, and much nicer if you honestly plan to have low level parties meeting/fighting these things (which you seem intent on).
Thanks. I think they'd be really great for low-level parties. Then again, I've given them something to grow into, so I can see them being ostensibly a problem for parties later on. I was thinking that later on they'd appear to be a threat without actually being one. Some parties might expend a lot of resources trying to deal with them when its not really that necessary.


Also, this seems more like a race to me. Would it be possible to stack class levels in something on this? If so, would class HD stack with the fey HD to determine the power of his abilities?
Honestly, I don't know the rules well enough to know how to do what you've described here. I'd say if they were a playable race, I'd make them maybe +6 LA or something like that.

Can anyone help me with the stat block? Or with other suggestions?

Noctis Vigil
2011-12-25, 06:07 PM
Hmm. I'm no expert (not by a long shot), but I'd say that with the rules listed here, if you let them as a playable race, make them take 4HD of fey, and +LA2-3. Maybe someone more experienced could make a good scale for the LA by class level. Since you actually have a way to avoid LA here, take it; LA is a terrible system, and more than maybe +LA2-3 is generally not worth the cost.

Debihuman
2011-12-26, 06:33 AM
A 1 HD monster with DR 10/cold iron is way overpowered. I'd recommend changing it to DR 1/cold iron. And it should have cold iron vulnerability.


Spell-like abilities are excessive because it advances to 17 (which is way too much). Creatures normally advance in size when they double their hit dice. It should advance 2-3 Small, 4-5 Medium at most.

Also, it has touchsight which is a psionic ability not an extraordinary one. It should have the Psionic subtype as well.

Debby

Mulletmanalive
2011-12-26, 07:36 AM
From a folklore perspective, what you've created is a "spirit of the air" or, as more common naming would have it, a genii.

Brief lesson: Genies or Genii are incorporeal spirits or possibly elementals that enbody ideas or concepts. Yours appears to be the concept of local brownian motion...

The term genius actually indicate the idea that anyone with ideas much be possessed by one of moe genies who are feeding the victim ideas.

Anyway, to respond to Debi, there is precident for Touchsight being psionic but as the description is identical to tremoursense barring the need for ground contact, it hardly matters. Mechanically, it's really just yet another kind of slightly limited blindsight.

I'm also not sure that a genie has any business getting bigger as it gets more powerful. Wizards does ignore this sometimes, particularly with caster monsters, which this is, so i would just give them a max HD bracket and leave them the same size.

My opinion, feeel free to ignore it.

Thugorp
2011-12-26, 07:41 AM
I really like this idea quite a bit. :-)

ShriekingDrake
2011-12-26, 10:57 AM
Thanks so much, Debby, for this thoughtful information. I really appreciate it.


A 1 HD monster with DR 10/cold iron is way overpowered. I'd recommend changing it to DR 1/cold iron. And it should have cold iron vulnerability. You know, honestly, I just looked at the pixie to get this example. Now that I look at the Grig, Nixie, and Petal. I can see that they are DR 5/cold iron. That said, I'd be happy to drop the DR all together. They certainly don't need it and I would not want them to be too unbalanced for any given level.


Spell-like abilities are excessive because it advances to 17 (which is way too much). Creatures normally advance in size when they double their hit dice. It should advance 2-3 Small, 4-5 Medium at most. I have found quite a few monsters that don't change in size when they advance. Is there something special about fey that I've overlooked? Are there reasons that advancement should be limited to a range of five or so levels?

From what you've said here, I seem to have misunderstood advancement. I appreciate you setting me straight. Mostly, I was hoping to create a creature that could be a party nuisance at most levels, which is why I gave them such an array of supernatural telekinetic and wind abilities as they gained HD. To me, they seemed flavorful and the increasing power would allow them to be available at a variety of levels. (It is also possible that I let the whimsy of it carry me away a bit.) I wasn't hoping to make an overpowered killer here, but rather a mercurial, flavorful fey that fit the name


Also, it has touchsight which is a psionic ability not an extraordinary one. It should have the Psionic subtype as well.
Debby
I could give it the psionic subtype. I used touchsight mostly because I thought that that ability seemed to match the notion of sensitivity to the air quite nicely. It wasn't my intent to give it a psionic ability as much as to demonstrate its sensitivity to the air around it. I suspect I took a short cut by just calling the ability touchsight. Maybe it would have been better to re-write the touchsight ability as a non-psionic sensitivity.


From a folklore perspective, what you've created is a "spirit of the air" or, as more common naming would have it, a genii.

This is great advice, MMA, I am much obliged to you. Would you say, then, that I would be better off having this creature be an outsider, rather than fey. I've noticed that the other genii are outsiders. My hope had been to have this be fey, at least that's what the name and concept felt like to me. Akin to Spirit of the Land in MM2, another incorporeal fey. (I realize that relying on MM2 as an example is almost never a good idea.) MM4 also has an incorporeal fey creature, joystealer, which is quite evil. Spirit Wolf in Frostburn is also an incorporeal fey, though, if I recall, its templated.


Brief lesson: Genies or Genii are incorporeal spirits or possibly elementals that enbody ideas or concepts. Yours appears to be the concept of local brownian motion...Indeed, I think you have a sense of what I was aiming for here.


The term genius actually indicate the idea that anyone with ideas much be possessed by one of moe genies who are feeding the victim ideas.

Anyway, to respond to Debi, there is precident for Touchsight being psionic but as the description is identical to tremoursense barring the need for ground contact, it hardly matters. Mechanically, it's really just yet another kind of slightly limited blindsight. You understand exactly what I wastrying to get at. My hope was not to make a psionic creature, but just one with local motion and air effects. Touchsight seemed to fit in nicely, but I may have crossed some "mechanical" line I was not aware of.


I'm also not sure that a genie has any business getting bigger as it gets more powerful. Wizards does ignore this sometimes, particularly with caster monsters, which this is, so i would just give them a max HD bracket and leave them the same size. I really was not hoping to have it get bigger. I tend to like my fey small and these guys seem flavorfully small. But, perhaps, as you've suggested, I've mis-characterized these guys as fey rather than outsiders.


My opinion, feel free to ignore it.

That's what I was seeking, opinions.

Many thanks to you both.

Debihuman
2011-12-26, 09:46 PM
Monsters advance by HD (and generally that means by size but not always) or they advance in a class. If the creature advances by class, they generally get elite stats rather than standard stats.

Fey creatures usually advance by class rather than by HD and even though not all of them change size, it would depend on whether they could. A pixe would exchange its HD for a class HD. It probably should have advance by class rather than by HD since intelligent creatures usually advance in a class.


Increased Hit Dice
Intelligent creatures that are not humanoid in shape, and nonintelligent monsters, can advance by increasing their Hit Dice. Creatures with increased Hit Dice are usually superior specimens of their race, bigger and more powerful than their run-of-the-mill fellows.

Pixies and other sprites ARE humanoid in shape so they really should increase by class rather than HD. [This was probably a WotC error that never got corrected].

Debby

ShriekingDrake
2011-12-27, 12:00 AM
Monsters advance by HD (and generally that means by size but not always) or they advance in a class. If the creature advances by class, they generally get elite stats rather than standard stats.

Fey creatures usually advance by class rather than by HD and even though not all of them change size, it would depend on whether they could. A pixe would exchange its HD for a class HD. It probably should have advance by class rather than by HD since intelligent creatures usually advance in a class.


Pixies and other sprites ARE humanoid in shape so they really should increase by class rather than HD. [This was probably a WotC error that never got corrected].

Debby

Thanks. Are there good resources for how to do this, that is, how to describe advancement by class? And what classes would you recommend here? I still like the idea of advancing the Leoithne through at least level 17. I would really appreciate your help here. My goal is NOT for players to play these, but class advancement is just fine.

Stycotl
2011-12-27, 12:35 AM
i like this monster quite a bit, and i also like your method for coming up with it. i've used similar methods for dreaming up homebrew before. A+.

scratch that. nope. A-, because you used the ridiculous monster format that wizards switched to before dumping 3.5 altogether for 4th ed. change that format back to the standard 3.5 ed format, and i'll bump your grade back up to an A+.

ShriekingDrake
2011-12-27, 12:40 AM
i like this monster quite a bit, and i also like your method for coming up with it. i've used similar methods for dreaming up homebrew before. A+.

scratch that. nope. A-, because you used the ridiculous monster format that wizards switched to before dumping 3.5 altogether for 4th ed. change that format back to the standard 3.5 ed format, and i'll bump your grade back up to an A+.

Thank you so much. I will most definitely oblige this, tomorrow.

Mulletmanalive
2011-12-27, 08:30 AM
@Stycotl: You say ridiculous, I say more practical to use while actually GMing.

@ShriekingDrake: I wasn't suggesting that it should be an Outsider, but you can if you like. tbh, I've always felt it was a false divide anyway. They don't seem aggressive on a personal level, so i'd've left them Fey.

@Debi: Part of my logic was that straight Fey HD would go nicely with the fact that Drake here has written what amounts to a monster class here anyway

Stycotl
2011-12-27, 10:27 AM
@Stycotl: You say ridiculous, I say more practical to use while actually GMing.

@ShriekingDrake: I wasn't suggesting that it should be an Outsider, but you can if you like. tbh, I've always felt it was a false divide anyway. They don't seem aggressive on a personal level, so i'd've left them Fey.

@Debi: Part of my logic was that straight Fey HD would go nicely with the fact that Drake here has written what amounts to a monster class here anyway

it's a completely subjective emotional reaction, but one that i'm confident 90%+ of the rest of the gamers here support too.

Debihuman
2011-12-27, 10:36 AM
Thanks. Are there good resources for how to do this, that is, how to describe advancement by class? And what classes would you recommend here? I still like the idea of advancing the Leoithne through at least level 17. I would really appreciate your help here. My goal is NOT for players to play these, but class advancement is just fine.

I generally refer to the core books but the online SRD is hypertexted so it's a lot easier to find everything. See Improving Monsters for how to advance by class. The leoithne would substitute its monster HD for its
Class HD because it starts with 1 HD.

I'm going through your stat block and making corrections and suggestions.

First and foremost is that you need to set your stat block for a 1 HD creature. I don't care what abilities you want to give it as it advances, the stat block should be useable as a proper creature without any adjustment. I'm completely changing its special abilities so that it only has those that it isn't overpowered. I warn you that it will lose a lot.

I am changing Air Effects to Spell-like Abilities since this is really what they are. They are losing their immunities and resistances because those abilities are overpowered for a 1 HD creature.

Touchsight is ONLY psionic. If they are not psionic, they should not have it.

Attacks are in rounds not in turns in 3.5.

It should only have 1 feat so it's losing track.

I don't think these made good PCs, so LA is --.

Leoithne
Small Fey (Air, Incorporeal, Psionic)

Hit Dice: 1d6+3 (6 hp)
Initiative: +8
Speed: Fly 50 ft. (Perfect)

Armor Class: 19 (+4 Dex, +4 deflection, +1 size), touch 19, flat-footed 15 

Base Attack/Grapple: +0/—

Attack: Static touch + 5 melee (1 point of electricity)
Full Attack: Static touch + 5 melee (1 point of electricity)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.

Special Attacks:Static Touch
Special Qualities:Spell resistance 1, spell-like abilities, touchsight 60 ft.
Saves: 
Fort +0 , Ref +4, Will +3 

Abilities: Str —, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 18
Skills: Bluff +4, Concentration +4, Diplomacy +4, Hide +4, Listen +4, Search +4, Sense Motive +4, Sleight of Hand +4, Spot +4
Feats: Improved Initiative

Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure:Standard, no weapons
Alignment: Usually chaotic neutral
Advancement: 2-3 HD (Small) or by Class
Level Adjustment: --

Leoithnes (pronounced “Lownehs”) are incorporeal fey who relish directing the falling leaves, rustling the field weeds, and rippling the waters with a subtle, mysterious breeze. They are innately telekinetic creatures with a variety of special abilities related to the manipulation of air, the wind, and weather. They relish using their telekinetic and air manipulation abilities to trick, obfuscate, and bewilder the intelligent creatures they encounter—often from places of hiding, just out of sight. Their mercurial, whimsical natures are not mean-spirited—though they can be agitated to act with some spite—and they can tease other creatures with puffs of air, flying objects, etc. at some length with out exhausting their appetite for dalliance. They tend to follow their quarry, making mischief for some time, until they are ready to desist.

As incorporeal creatures, they are a bit like the wind itself, unable to be harmed or deterred by most creatures. They have been known to make clever comments as they let frustrated creatures swing endlessly through their insubstantial form.

While they don’t use weapons, they do like to collect treasures, which they tend to store in natural places in hidden piles.

Leonithnes speak Auran, Common and Sylvan.

Combat

Leoithnes tend to avoid fighting, unless vexed. Once vexed, they use their air effects and incorporeal static touch attack to drive away what has irked them. It is rare for them to seek to kill an opponent.

Spell-like Abilities (Sp): At Will—mage hand; 1/day—control winds. CL is equal to its hit dice.

Spell Resistance (Ex): Leoithnes have spell resistance equal to their hit dice.

Static Touch (Ex): For leoithnes, the only form of physical attack comes in the form of a static shock (electricity), which they deliver as an incorporeal touch attack. This attack deals 1 point of electricity damage per HD of the leoithne.

Touchsight (Psi): Due to their interconnectedness with the air, leoithnes have touchsight out to 60 ft.

Debby

ShriekingDrake
2011-12-27, 12:49 PM
Thanks, Debby. I'll look these suggestions over carefully. I appreciate all the time you put into them.

On a distantly related note, I was wondering how to represent the skills. I gave them 4s in all the skill slots because I assumed that would be where they would put their ranks. Should the skills also include how the ability modifiers affect the skills? Looking through the SRD there seems to be some inconsistency in how these skill numbers are identified. Sometimes the skill ranks represented in the stat block are much higher than you'd expect without any racial bonuses being indicated in the text.

Thanks again for all you're doing to improve this idea.

ps. I'm not sure why I think the Air Effects should be supernatural abilities as opposed to spell-like abilities, but I'm still leaning that way. I think it has to do with how I envision the nature of the beast. That is, I see these creatures, as MMA said, as "spirits of the air" and think that these air effects should not be dispelable. I suppose I could rename the abilities and describe them as operating similar to spells, a practice that WoTC has used from time to time. Would that be more kosher? (Please don't mistake me, I'm not discounting your advice, just voicing my proclivities.)

pps. Why did you add the "+5 melee" language in the stat block? I'm just wondering how that works.

Debihuman
2011-12-29, 08:53 AM
Thanks, Debby. I'll look these suggestions over carefully. I appreciate all the time you put into them.

On a distantly related note, I was wondering how to represent the skills. I gave them 4s in all the skill slots because I assumed that would be where they would put their ranks. Should the skills also include how the ability modifiers affect the skills? Looking through the SRD there seems to be some inconsistency in how these skill numbers are identified. Sometimes the skill ranks represented in the stat block are much higher than you'd expect without any racial bonuses being indicated in the text.

Thanks again for all you're doing to improve this idea.

ps. I'm not sure why I think the Air Effects should be supernatural abilities as opposed to spell-like abilities, but I'm still leaning that way. I think it has to do with how I envision the nature of the beast. That is, I see these creatures, as MMA said, as "spirits of the air" and think that these air effects should not be dispelable. I suppose I could rename the abilities and describe them as operating similar to spells, a practice that WoTC has used from time to time. Would that be more kosher? (Please don't mistake me, I'm not discounting your advice, just voicing my proclivities.)

pps. Why did you add the "+5 melee" language in the stat block? I'm just wondering how that works.

Here are all the answers:

A creature's skills are Rank + Ability Modifier + Racial Modifier + any other modifiers (from Supernatural abilities, class abilities or from a template for example). The base number of skills is based on a creature's Type. Fey creatures get skill points equal to (6 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.

Here is the definition of a Supernatural Ability:

Supernatural abilities are magical and go away in an antimagic field but are not subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or to being dispelled by dispel magic. Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise. Supernatural abilities may have a use limit or be usable at will, just like spell-like abilities. However, supernatural abilities do not provoke attacks of opportunity and never require Concentration checks. Unless otherwise noted, a supernatural ability has an effective caster level equal to the creature’s Hit Dice. The saving throw (if any) against a supernatural ability is: 10 + ½ the creature's HD + its ability modifier (usually charisma).

If you want to turn the spell-like abilities into Supernatural abilities then make the following changes:

Change Spell-Like Abilities to Air Effects. Mage hand probably should remain a spell-like ability since it isn't really an "air effect." I'd recommend giving it spells from the Air domain as a Supernatural ability for better spell consistency. Please note that 5th level spells require caster level 9. Also, boreal wind from Frostburn isn't an air spell but a cold spell.

Let me know what you think of these changes:

Air Effects (Su): Leoithnes have an innate magical ability to affect the wind and climate. As a swift action, a leoithne may create and/or control any breeze (winds with a velocity of no more than 20 mph) within a 60-foot radius. In addition, Leoithnes gain access to Air Domain spells (but not the granted ability) as if they were clerics of the same level. The saving throws of any spell cast this way is 10 + ½ the leoithne's HD + its charisma modifier.

This is the list of the cleric's air domain spells:

1. Obscuring Mist: Fog surrounds you.
2. Wind Wall: Deflects arrows, smaller creatures, and gases.
3. Gaseous Form: Subject becomes insubstantial and can fly slowly.
4. Air Walk: Subject treads on air as if solid (climb at 45-degree angle).
5. Control Winds: Change wind direction and speed.
6. Chain Lightning: 1d6/level damage; 1 secondary bolt/level each deals half damage.
7. Control Weather: Changes weather in local area.
8. Whirlwind: Cyclone deals damage and can pick up creatures.
9. Elemental Swarmcast as an air spell only: Summons multiple elementals.

As for combat: attacks are either melee or ranged. Melee attacks (touch attacks are melee attacks) are made using this formula: BAB + creature's size modifier + Str modifier (if a creature has the weapon finesse feat it substitutes its Dex modifier for Str modifier). Note that incorporeal creatures also use their Dex modifier for combat. "It has no Strength score, so its Dexterity modifier applies to both its melee attacks and its ranged attacks."

The rules are all in the online SRD and the various core books, but they (the rules) are scattered throughout those sources. Finding the rules and keeping track of all of them can be a daunting experience for a new DM. The Player's Handbook walks players through PC creation, but no equivalent product was made for DMs who want to create their own creatures. One design article was written for 3.0 in Dragon Magazine "How to Create a Monster: Recipes for Disaster." The only other product that I know of is Expeditious Retreat's "A Magical Society: Beast Builder." I like it but some people frown on using 3rd party material.

Debby

ShriekingDrake
2011-12-30, 12:35 AM
Thank you so much. I appreciate all the time you've taken to help me. This is great.

isotunknown
2012-01-15, 01:51 PM
I like this. It's perfect for a campaign I'm running. You do, however, need a better picture (not that I have a suggestion at the moment).

ShriekingDrake
2012-02-28, 08:30 PM
Got any picture suggestions?

Note I added some spell-like abilities.

More suggestions welcome.

isotunknown
2012-03-17, 01:21 PM
They're just great. I've been running a campaign in which we have been using a lot of these and at various levels. They've spooked the party quite well, but the party has yet to defeat one, which is what is great about them.

I noticed that you've added some feats for progression. These have made the static touch ability quite effective at the higher levels.

I am not sure how you would ratchet up the ECL as they improve, but I don't think it's a 1 to 1 ration.

Also, I like your choices for spell-like abilities. They are very flavorful. But why did you make some of the abilities spell-like and other supernatural. I'm not quibbling with your choices, I was just wondering about your thinking.

ShriekingDrake
2012-03-18, 10:42 AM
They're just great. I've been running a campaign in which we have been using a lot of these and at various levels. They've spooked the party quite well, but the party has yet to defeat one, which is what is great about them.
I'm glad to hear this. That's exactly what I was going for.


I noticed that you've added some feats for progression. These have made the static touch ability quite effective at the higher levels. Right. The idea here was to enable Leoithne, when vexed to give higher level parties that annoying shock you get sometimes when exiting your car in the winter.


I am not sure how you would ratchet up the ECL as they improve, but I don't think it's a 1 to 1 ration. Good point. I hadn't thought about that. I think most creatures don't advance that many levels without being class eligible. So, I'm at a bit of a loss. But I think your point is spot on. Given the abilities they get as they increase in HD, they can pack a mean wallop at least for a little while.


Also, I like your choices for spell-like abilities. They are very flavorful. But why did you make some of the abilities spell-like and other supernatural. I'm not quibbling with your choices, I was just wondering about your thinking.

I don't have a good explanation for this. I had really wanted the supernatural abilities to be an inherent part of the creature, as keepers of the wind. But I also wanted them to have a kind of trickiness to them. I guess spell-like abilities are more focused on their prankster side. I updated them to make them all Su abilities.

ShriekingDrake
2012-09-13, 09:15 PM
Thanks to DracoDel for the suggested updates to the Trickery abilities table.

isotunknown
2013-07-06, 01:11 PM
Hey, just wanted to let you know that I've been using these in my campaign with great effect. I made great use of their spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities.

Were you envisioning that they can exist below 7HD? If so, how big are they?

ShriekingDrake
2013-07-08, 10:28 AM
Hey, just wanted to let you know that I've been using these in my campaign with great effect. I made great use of their spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities.

I'm glad to hear this. Some have criticized their lengthier list of spell-like and supernatural abilities. I think they're fun. These creatures are not meant to kill parties, but to vex, confuse, amuse them.


Were you envisioning that they can exist below 7HD? If so, how big are they?
I can see the confusion here, because I did something atypical in having them listed at 6 HD and giving them abilities that trigger at lower HD. Of course, as they are listed has having 6 HD, I definitely envisioned them as being able to be below 7 HD. I just wanted a DM to be able to envision them at lower HD than 6. I would say the would be small size from 1-6 HD. I could list that in the stat block, I suppose. I'm actually not sure how to fix the little mess I've created here. Someone like Debby would know. It's possible that I should just list them as 1 HD and show how they advance in more detail..

Debihuman
2013-07-08, 12:02 PM
One of the problems with having creatures shrink in size as they progress is that they actually become less powerful due to size penalties. This will throw off CR.

Also, an incorporeal has no Strength score, not a Score of 0. A non-ability is is "—." A character with Strength 0 falls to the ground and is helpless. The modifier for a nonability is +0.

A creature with no Strength score can’t exert force, usually because it has no physical body or because it doesn't move. The creature automatically fails Strength checks. If the creature can attack, it applies its Dexterity modifier to its base attack bonus instead of a Strength modifier.

Debby

ShriekingDrake
2013-07-10, 06:53 PM
One of the problems with having creatures shrink in size as they progress is that they actually become less powerful due to size penalties. This will throw off CR.

I hadn't seen creatures getting smaller before and I suspect this is why. That said, I thought it fit nicely with the whole trajectory of the Leoithne. Do you think there's a way to do this. I suppose I could ditch the shrinking thing. It's not that important.


Also, an incorporeal has no Strength score, not a Score of 0. A non-ability is is "—." A character with Strength 0 falls to the ground and is helpless. The modifier for a nonability is +0. Fixed.


A creature with no Strength score can’t exert force, usually because it has no physical body or because it doesn't move. The creature automatically fails Strength checks. If the creature can attack, it applies its Dexterity modifier to its base attack bonus instead of a Strength modifier.

Debby

I'm still not sure whether I've erred by putting them at 6 HD, when I also envision them existing at less than 6 HD. To me, it doesn't seem to me to be a problem, but I'd appeal to wiser heads.

Thanks, as always, Debby, for your excellent advice.