Two Incarnum Questions

[lord pringle]

If you bind a soulmeld do you still get the non-bound benefit? If you bind something to the totem chakra do you still get the benefits of it being bound elsewhere?

Thanks in advance.

[Kaje]

Yes

No, you can only bind to one chakra, unless you have that thing where you can bind it to two chakras.

[Psyren]

If you bind a soulmeld do you still get the non-bound benefit

Yes



If you bind something to the totem chakra do you still get the benefits of it being bound elsewhere?

Only if you do bind it to both places - Totemists can do this starting at level 11.

[lord pringle]

Thanks for the responses but I have a third question. How good is the Necrocarnum PrC?

[blazingshadow]

sorry, you said 2 questions only

[lord pringle]

sorry, you said 2 questions only

:smallfrown:

[The-Mage-King]

Ignore him- ask your questions.


Thanks for the responses but I have a third question. How good is the Necrocarnum PrC?

Depends on the cheese level. Here's an analysis (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129982) of it.


You'll be swimming in Essentia, after a few fights with living foes, so...


Also, link to Incarnate handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6920.0).

[Psyren]

sorry, you said 2 questions only

Har har :smalltongue:


Thanks for the responses but I have a third question. How good is the Necrocarnum PrC?

Opinions vary on it. I personally think it's great (especially with the adaptation that lets you move its alignment away from baby-eating evil.) The main claim to fame of the class is that it's the only way to unlock every single chakra pre-epic, and the zombies (they get 2) can get pretty strong with the class abilities.

The main drawbacks to the class are how poorly-worded it is (how many chakra binds does it get?) and the very clunky essentia mechanic. You'll be pretty weak for the first fight or couple of fights each day unless you have a workaround; keeping livestock around for instance, or getting an eternal wand of Soul Boon that you can activate with your Mage's Spectacles/the Magical Training feat.

[Little Brother]

Har har :smalltongue:



Opinions vary on it. I personally think it's great (especially with the adaptation that lets you move its alignment away from baby-eating evil.) The main claim to fame of the class is that it's the only way to unlock every single chakra pre-epic, and the zombies (they get 2) can get pretty strong with the class abilities.

The main drawbacks to the class are how poorly-worded it is (how many chakra binds does it get?) and the very clunky essentia mechanic. You'll be pretty weak for the first fight or couple of fights each day unless you have a workaround; keeping livestock around for instance, or getting an eternal wand of Soul Boon that you can activate with your Mage's Spectacles/the Magical Training feat.Boil and anthill. Unlock unlimited arcane(Well, incarnate) power.

And that is why I love Necrocarnates...

[Psyren]

Boil and anthill. Unlock unlimited arcane(Well, incarnate) power.

And that is why I love Necrocarnates...

The trouble with this tactic is it's debatable; ants don't necessarily leave corpses in D&D terms, or an entire anthill might count as a swarm (does a swarm leave corpses, and if it does, does it count as many or one?) Anthill boiling therefore falls under DM discretion, and many are apt to say no outright to such a strategy since it would obviate the Necrocarnate's primary drawback at no cost to the player.

Other ways are beyond reproach, with my personal favorite being the eternal wand of Soul Boon, or simply devouring a corpse right before bed so you start the day fully charged (the essentia lasts 24 hours.) If you time it right you can keep your soulmelds constantly filled to capacity.

Also, for me personally I love Vivicarnates instead :smallsmile:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You can use the 'bag of puppies' trick, like the Great Cleave/WarMind5 trick does to ensure you always have enough essentia to cap out every one of your binds.

[Psyren]

You can use the 'bag of puppies' trick, like the Great Cleave/WarMind5 trick does to ensure you always have enough essentia to cap out every one of your binds.

I was going to say that's horrible, but if you're playing Necrocarnate straight you might actually get bonus XP for roleplaying :smallfrown:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I would like to point out that, despite it's ability to very easily cap out their melds, you do have to keep in mind that cap does exist, and you can't just bypass it. Sure, you can increase the capacity somewhat, being an Incarnate first helps, and they get a class ability which furthers this for a few meldshapes, but there's a rather strict limitation on how much essentia may be devoted to any given soulmeld. Once you hit that cap, any additional essentia is largely irrelevant unless you have feats you can dump it into.

At first, I thought you'd have to worry about number of meldshapes and binds, but while it doesn't advance meldshaping, it does give you bonus meldshapes and binds to keep up with the Incarnate's regularly scheduled number. The only thing you miss out on is the essentia. And, as we already went over, that's not a problem for you.

[Fouredged Sword]

There is a cap on soul meld capacity...

And a meld that grants HP = to your essence pool:smalltongue:

Unlimited HP anyone?

[Big Fau]

And a meld that grants HP = to your essence pool:smalltongue:

Unlimited HP anyone?

That's a feat, not a Soulmeld. There's a Soulmeld that gives you HP equal to your (ML*Invested Essentia)+ML, but the ability you are thinking of is a feat.


I recall Sinfire saying that the Necrocarnate is a bad class, although I can't find the post where he explained why he thought that.

[Psyren]

I recall Sinfire saying that the Necrocarnate is a bad class, although I can't find the post where he explained why he thought that.

He primarily disliked it due to the lack of its own essentia pool, but both Person_Man and myself consider that to be much less of a drawback than he does.

Also, depending on the timing of your combats, you may never actually have to "boil an anthill" or be otherwise essentia-deprived; the 24 hour timer starts ticking from the last harvest you make in a given day, not from the start of the day, meaning that you can stagger your drains enough to be at max essentia constantly.

Or simply use the little innate essentia you have (Incarnate/Totemist levels, feats, items, race etc.), plus a Soul Boon item, to power up one or two soulmelds and contribute to a single combat that way. For example, load up your dissolving spittle, melt/essentia trap a mooks and use the power boost to kill more until combat is done and you can go for a longer-lasting harvest. By your third combat your melds should be brimming.

[Big Fau]

He primarily disliked it due to the lack of its own essentia pool, but both Person_Man and myself consider that to be much less of a drawback than he does.

Also, depending on the timing of your combats, you may never actually have to "boil an anthill" or be otherwise essentia-deprived; the 24 hour timer starts ticking from the last harvest you make in a given day, not from the start of the day, meaning that you can stagger your drains enough to be at max essentia constantly.

Or simply use the little innate essentia you have (Incarnate/Totemist levels, feats, items, race etc.), plus a Soul Boon item, to power up one or two soulmelds and contribute to a single combat that way. For example, load up your dissolving spittle, melt/essentia trap a mooks and use the power boost to kill more until combat is done and you can go for a longer-lasting harvest. By your third combat your melds should be brimming.

Yeah, but the harvest ability itself only provides 1 essentia/corpse, so unless there's a large number of mooks, you won't be getting level-appropriate essentia once you hit the mid-levels. And IIRC, they don't have an Essentia Capacity booster like the Incarnate does. They have one for Necrocarnum melds, but not other melds.

And the second Necrocarnum Zombie doesn't come online until 20th level. I honestly don't think those Zombies are level-appropriate.

[Psyren]

Yeah, but the harvest ability itself only provides 1 essentia/corpse, so unless there's a large number of mooks, you won't be getting level-appropriate essentia once you hit the mid-levels.

What? No it doesn't; it gives you essentia = 1/2 NC level per corpse, rounded up - and you have no cap. It doesn't take long, or even that many corpses, to outstrip an Incarnate's pool.

For instance, an Incarnate 10 has 10 essentia, while an Incarnate 7/Necrocarnate 3 has 7. It only takes two corpses for the Necrocarnate to get more essentia than the Incarnate, and every corpse after that is gravy.

And later - an Incarnate 16 has 18 essentia, while an Incarnate 7/Necrocarnate 9 still has just 7. But the Necrocarnate will only need one extra corpse (3 total) to end up on top. (5+5+5 =15.) And that's assuming he started the day completely empty, which is hard to do when your last drain each day lasts for 24 hours.


And IIRC, they don't have an Essentia Capacity booster like the Incarnate does. They have one for Necrocarnum melds, but not other melds.

Yes, but there are no "Necrocarnate soulmelds" - ergo, the Incarnate boosters (and you'll likely have at least +1) work for them.


And the second Necrocarnum Zombie doesn't come online until 20th level. I honestly don't think those Zombies are level-appropriate.

I honestly wouldn't use the second zombie at all. Using one zombie caps its HD at MSL, while using two caps each at NC level (which is of course smaller.)