Making Lizardfolk LA +0?

[NineThePuma]

Okay, so Lizard Folk have the following Racial Traits:
• +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence.
• Medium size.
• A lizardfolk’s base land speed is 30 feet.
• Racial Hit Dice: A lizardfolk begins with two levels of humanoid, which provide 2d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +1, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +0, Ref +3, and Will +0.
• Racial Skills: A lizardfolk’s humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 5 × (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1). Its class skills are Balance, Jump, and Swim. Lizardfolk have a +4 racial bonus on Balance, Jump, and Swim checks.
• Racial Feats: A lizardfolk’s humanoid levels give it one feat.
• Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A lizardfolk is automatically proficient with simple weapons and shields.
• +5 natural armor bonus.
• Natural Weapons: 2 claws (1d4) and bite (1d4).
• Special Qualities (see above): Hold breath.
• Automatic Languages: Common, Draconic. Bonus Languages: Aquan, Goblin, Gnoll, Orc.
• Favored Class: Druid.
• Level adjustment +1.

How horrible would it be to game balance to change that to:

• +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence.
• Medium size.
• A lizardfolk’s base land speed is 30 feet.
• +2 natural armor bonus.
• Natural Weapons: 2 claws (1d4) and bite (1d4).
• Special Qualities: Hold breath.
• Automatic Languages: Common, Draconic. Bonus Languages: Aquan, Goblin, Gnoll, Orc.
• Favored Class: Druid.

[sonofzeal]

Works for me, I'd play it. A bit boring, but reasonable.

[NineThePuma]

The idea, of course, is to make the Vile Tooth lizardfolk from Dragon Magic less... awful.

[Kenneth]

• +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma.
• Medium size.
• A lizardfolk’s base land speed is 30 feet, Swim Speed is 30 feet.
• +3 natural armor bonus.
• Natural Weapons: 2 claws (1d4) and bite (1d4).
• Special Qualities: Hold breath.
• Automatic Languages: Common, Saurus. Bonus Languages: Aquan, Goblin, Gnoll, Orc.
• Favored Class: Fighter


Are wht Lizard men (or lizard folk i guess snce 3rd ed called them that, though I do not think the 2 are teh same race.. but maybe they are)

for me its they are hardier than normal races, but their reptilian midnset puts them at odds with the other races not accustomed to them.

it might be just be me, but ive always imagine reptiles wee msarter than mammals, baring us humans of course. just be happy raptors never had an opposable thumb

[hex0]

A bit boring, but reasonable.

Claws and tail get you bonuses to climb and balance respectively. You'll need those.

Climb, and Balance
reduce the Natural Armor to +1
Keep simple weapon profienency. Almost all classes get it anyway. Maybe shields as well.

It isn't that hard to 'break' a race really. There are powerful LA +0 races aroung like Humans, Neraphim, and Dwarves.

[NineThePuma]

I'd like to keep the Natural Armor at +2; I might give Shield Proficiency as a bonus feat though. Climb & Balance bonuses make a good bit of sense, but I think I'd rather give them a swim bonus rather than a climb bonus.

[Fax Celestis]

You could use my d20r lizardfolk. I'm on my phone, so no link, but if you click the Competitor logo in my signature, you can find it in the d20 Rebirth forum. AFAIR, -dex +con +wis -cha, powerful build, some SLAs, natural attacks, a point of NA, and a swim bonus. Could be misremembering,

[NineThePuma]

You could use my d20r lizardfolk. I'm on my phone, so no link, but if you click the Competitor logo in my signature, you can find it in the d20 Rebirth forum. AFAIR, -dex +con +wis -cha, powerful build, some SLAs, natural attacks, a point of NA, and a swim bonus. Could be misremembering,

I could, but d20r's balance point is a bit higher than normal, isn't it?

[hex0]

I'd like to keep the Natural Armor at +2; I might give Shield Proficiency as a bonus feat though. Climb & Balance bonuses make a good bit of sense, but I think I'd rather give them a swim bonus rather than a climb bonus.

Actually, yeah. They get bonus to Swim, Balance, and Jump so keep it that way.

Keeping +2 Natural armor might still be okay for balance actually. Instead of giving Simple and Shield prof, you might want to give them Racial Familiarity as it is flavorful and fun. Not as strong as outright prof. Such as:

-Treat Battleaxe and Handaxe as simple weapons
-Treat the Net as a martial weapon

'monster' races don't get much and it is a shame (Dwarves get 11 racial features), so here are some other suggestions for flavor. Not powerful, but handy in certain situations:

-Keep normal movement speed in 'swamp' terrain
-Slow metabolism: +x to avoid starvation
-Bonus against acid effects (either a low resistance or a save bonus)

[pres_man]

• +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence. This increases the LA.
• Medium size.
• A lizardfolk’s base land speed is 30 feet.
• Racial Hit Dice: A lizardfolk begins with two levels of humanoid, which provide 2d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +1, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +0, Ref +3, and Will +0.
• Racial Skills: A lizardfolk’s humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 5 × (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1). Its class skills are Balance, Jump, and Swim. Lizardfolk have a +4 racial bonus on Balance, Jump, and Swim checks.
• Racial Feats: A lizardfolk’s humanoid levels give it one feat.
• Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A lizardfolk is automatically proficient with simple weapons and shields.
• +5 natural armor bonus. This increases the LA.
• Natural Weapons: 2 claws (1d4) and bite (1d4). This increases the LA, slightly.
• Special Qualities (see above): Hold breath.
• Automatic Languages: Common, Draconic. Bonus Languages: Aquan, Goblin, Gnoll, Orc.
• Favored Class: Druid.
• Level adjustment +1.

Now the standard lizardfolk is around a strong +2 LA, the racial HD are there to take the place of some of the LA. So if you want to try to balance it as +0 LA race, those areas I marked above are the ones you need to focus on.
• +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence. Nice start.
• +2 natural armor bonus. I still feel this is too much for a +0 LA race. +1 NA would be better balanced. Don't forget that having any natural armor qualifies you for the Improved Natural Armor feat (with a 13 Con of course). Players could use their first level feat to get another point if they really wanted it.
• Natural Weapons: 2 claws (1d4) and bite (1d4). While this and a natural armor bonus does make this a little powerful +0 LA race, I don't think it is too horrible. This is a minor bonus, really only an issue if you are grappled or swallowed. Most of the other times, you'll be either using a weapon or casting spells.

[Maquise]

The Pathfinder srd has a 3rd party lizardfolk adaptation that includes a bunch of racial feats here. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/3rd-party-races/paizo-fans-united/lizardfolk) I'm not sure how balanced it is, but I thought I'd bring it up for comparison.

[Fax Celestis]

I could, but d20r's balance point is a bit higher than normal, isn't it?

It aims to make race relevant through all 20 levels, instead of primarily through the first four or five.