Should I acknowledge the strange behavior of the rogue in this party?

[killem2]

I'm the DM, and I have a rogue in this party who the player of said rogue, wants to collect as many idols of deities possible and worship as many gods as he can.


The player is trying to RP an almost religious obsessed little halfling. Good, bad, neutral, he doesn't care.

As a dm, are there negative (or positives) that I should know of, for a player who for all intents and purposes is ****ting on religion (in the views of the gods he worships) while in the eyes of the little halfling, he genuinely loves every god/idol/deity he can get in touch with. To accent this, the player also maxed out his knowledge (religion) skill too.

How does this effect his actual alignment?


He currently worships Olidammara, and now hextor (after stumbling upon an Idol in a small dungeon, and successfully passing an knowledge check).

I'll play along, I don't really mind, just wanted to know if you all any other ways this could be used in a campaign.

[Lonely Tylenol]

I'm the DM, and I have a rogue in this party who the player of said rogue, wants to collect as many idols of deities possible and worship as many gods as he can.


The player is trying to RP an almost religious obsessed little halfling. Good, bad, neutral, he doesn't care.

As a dm, are there negative (or positives) that I should know of, for a player who for all intents and purposes is ****ting on religion (in the views of the gods he worships) while in the eyes of the little halfling, he genuinely loves every god/idol/deity he can get in touch with. To accent this, the player also maxed out his knowledge (religion) skill too.

How does this effect his actual alignment?


He currently worships Olidammara, and now hextor (after stumbling upon an Idol in a small dungeon, and successfully passing an knowledge check).

I'll play along, I don't really mind, just wanted to know if you all any other ways this could be used in a campaign.

There's nothing that says a character can't be polytheistic.

There's also nothing that states that a deity has to show favor to somebody that curries favor from them by worshiping them (for instance, an evil mortal can worship a good deity without the good deity showing them their graces).

Think of it like Benny from The Mummy; the character's worship or obsession of many deities may flatter on a superficial level, resulting in mixed reactions from NPCs (the more foolish or ignorant among the NPCs may be awestruck at his ability to worship so many deities, while devotees of a particular god, or simply the wiser among the common class, may recognize him as superficial), but his flightiness and indecisiveness ensures that no god will truly answer their call in a dangerous situation.

EDIT: If you want, you can have him actually gather a sort of following for his actions, causing certain gods (particularly the evil ones) to become annoyed at the way he is misrepresenting their ideal, and send an emissary to "deter" him from misrepresenting that particular deity with his actions. It might make for a good plot point, or something to that effect.

[Psyren]

The easiest way to play this for laughs/drama is to have him come across, and potentially befriend, two opposing faiths. Do good/evil for more drama, law/chaos for more laughs.

As for your question, the only setting I know where this would actually be a problem for him is Faerun; he could make a lot of enemies depending on which clergies he ended up running into (say, if he tried to befriend both Selune and Shar's faithful, or Lathander and Mask's.) He'd also likely end up a False in death, which sucks pretty bad for him but he'd be an NPC at that point anyway.

[NikitaDarkstar]

First of all I'd talk to the player to get a feel for where he wants to go with this.

Alignment wise he'd probably end up in the chaotic neutral area, possibly neutral evil depending on other actions and which gods he ends up favoring the most. (Lets face it, if you worship ALL of them you have selfish interests on some levels.) As for reactions? He could end up on the bad sides of clerics and such that follow a deity that's the exact opposite of his flavor of the day. (Say he's currently particularly fond of Nerull, that might not go over so well with a follower of Pelor.) while a more educated follower of another god will simply find him annoying and possibly try to sway him into only following one god by warning him of how worshiping all of them can have consequences after he's dead. As for the gods themselves? Why would they really care about one little mortal running around begging favors of all of them no matter his intent? If he can't make up his mind he's of no use to anyone now is he? On the other hand, depending on level and how much the gods actually interfere in your setting some could see him as a valuable tool and try to win him over.

But really, prod the player a bit first, see if you can find out where he's trying to go with this.

[Leon]

Worship as many as he wants. Unless he is a Cleric he isn't going to get any benefit from them.

[sonofzeal]

The fact that you have to ask whether to allow a player to roleplay something that isn't actively disrupting the game, worries me. Have other players expressed discomfort or asked him to stop? If not, allow it.

And let the player define the character's alignment. That's not your job either, unless he's acting in a way that actively disregards it. My guess here is NN-> CN, somewhere between those two, but anything could be justifiable. Let the player do what he wants, unless he starts sacrificing small children to dark gods or somesuch.

[motoko's ghost]

I think thats actually quite a nice idea, really original.
I just want to know what happens when he dies, which afterlife does he go to?
:smallconfused: Will the gods fight over it?

[Gavinfoxx]

Uh... isn't this how a lot of polytheistic faiths worked? And how a lot of polytheistic faiths and societies work in various D&D settings? I mean, even in faerun, you acknowledge every god -- good, evil, chaotic, lawful -- in their realm of expertise, because every god has dominion over some aspect of reality, and you are generally supposed to pretty much invoke every relevant god in a little prayer that they have mercy or that you not offend them or whatever when you interact with something they have dominion over?

[Medic!]

It's almost verbatim out of the Chaos Gnome text in Races of Stone, where the race itself is so chaotic that they regularly deity-hop, devout as you please. If it was me, I'd set a secret goal for him, hit all the deities or all the 9 alignments and have him stumble on a little gift from the gods like a holy symbol with a small hidden luck component to it or something.

I wouldn't get too upset about "a player *****ing all over religion" since it IS a fantasy game. He's obviously enjoying himself, might as well run with it, it's how all the good DnD stories start!

[Mordokai]

It's pretty much what all factotums do, why not let an ordinary rogue get away with it?

Benny from Mummy was already mentioned. He got away with it and it saved his ass from Imothep. It also came back to bite him in the ass at the end. In the end, it's up to you. You can screw him up as well, one way or another. Wouldn't say kill him, but something nasty can surely happen to him.

[gkathellar]

Why should you punish the character for practicing religion exactly as it was practiced in much of the world for much of recorded history?

In most faith systems where there are multiple figures to pray to, you honor whatever gods you encounter or that are relevant to the situation — because they're gods and they will be actively offended if you fail to acknowledge it. One might have a patron deity/saint/etc. determined by nation-state (Athena for Athens, for example, or Apollo for Delphi) or profession (a wise sailor doesn't neglect his prayers to Poseidon), and certainly no one would forget the big boss (Zeus for the Greeks), but you honor all the gods to some extent because you have an obligation to do so.

I've never understood why D&D assumes you'll take a pseudo-monotheistic approach to religion in a polytheistic setting if you're not a cleric. A wise man will pray to Lathander at the sunrise and Shar before going to sleep every night, so long as it's a confirmed fact that both exist.

[EccentricCircle]

I agree with the statements above that in a polytheistic setting thats precisely how religions should work, I often have to remind my players that being a worshiper of moradin doesn't make Pelorites heretics, both gods re part of the same pantheon and generally people will worship whichever one they need to.

your players character sounds fun. the idea of trying to follow all of the gods is a great one. why not throw in some NPC's who have heard of his activites and believe that he is some sort of prophet destined to fulfill a prophecy,. as the campaign goes on his following could grow until he's either leading his own religion or running away from his followers Life of Brian style.

[killem2]

The fact that you have to ask whether to allow a player to roleplay something that isn't actively disrupting the game, worries me. Have other players expressed discomfort or asked him to stop? If not, allow it.

And let the player define the character's alignment. That's not your job either, unless he's acting in a way that actively disregards it. My guess here is NN-> CN, somewhere between those two, but anything could be justifiable. Let the player do what he wants, unless he starts sacrificing small children to dark gods or somesuch.

I didn't mention the word allow once. I'm asking what ways I can handle this.

[gkathellar]

Why do you need to "handle" it? Your player has found a way to amuse himself just by roleplaying their character (something we all strive for), and unless they're actively offending other members of the group, that shouldn't be a problem. Let them have their fun, and keep your eyes open for any story hooks you can build off of this behavior.

[killem2]

I am not sure I can define this anyway other way.

I'm not angry, I'm not worried, I'm not concerned he's going to damage my campaign, I'm just asking, what ways this could be taken or handled.

:smallconfused:

I'm not really versed in the religious aspects of D&D, and if there are particular things you can do with such a method of worship.

[gkathellar]

"Do?" What could he possibly "do?" What is there that needs to be "handled?" He's not a cleric, and even if he were rules for worshiping pantheons are exceedingly simple to put together. I really don't understand the nature of the question. Are you trying to pre-empt some kind of hypothetical exploit related to this behavior? Are you just nervous about the fact that he's taking a slightly unconventional approach to the largely irrelevant "deity" slot on his character sheet?

I mean, how can you simultaneously conclude that something is and is not a problem?

[Lonely Tylenol]

"Do?" What could he possibly "do?" What is there that needs to be "handled?" He's not a cleric, and even if he were rules for worshiping pantheons are exceedingly simple to put together. I really don't understand the nature of the question. Are you trying to pre-empt some kind of hypothetical exploit related to this behavior? Are you just nervous about the fact that he's taking a slightly unconventional approach to the largely irrelevant "deity" slot on his character sheet?

I mean, how can you simultaneously conclude that something is and is not a problem?

{{scrubbed}}
Now that that's over and done with... Can we all agree that this PC sounds like Benny from The Mummy? As if it needed to be said a second time? :smallbiggrin:

[The Witch-King]

One amusing way to go would be for demons, devils, demigods and even living aspirants of saint or godhood to start queuing up to have this guy as a worshiper so they can work (or try to work) their way to godhood.

And that sort probably WOULD care and wouldn't want him praying to other pretenders, I mean aspirants.

[Thurbane]

I think what killem2 is asking is are there any mechanical benefits or penalties defined in D&D for worshiping multiple gods (of conflicting alignment).

Aside from the answers already given above (the useful ones, not the ones attacking him for asking the question :smallyuk:), it would depend heavily on the pantheon(s) of the campaign. It is possibly conceivable that some more interventionist deities might take offense at his actions. It's also not altogether unlikely that some more militant worshippers of some gods might also take exception to including "their" god in his polytheism.

It all comes down to the viewpoint of particular gods, churches, and whether polytheism is something commonly practiced in the campaign setting.

[DoctorGlock]

My read on this is that the OP is just looking for plot hooks rather than ban hammers or nerf bats.

Have small time church figures debate him, as he levels these discourses move to higher levels of the clergy

A paladin tries to save his soul

Cultists try to buy his loyalty

Religious children throw rocks at him

Ur Priests throw bigger rocks at him

It's a small character quirk, not a huge defining feature. It does nothing to the game itself and thus there is nothing major that can be done with it.

[Knaight]

I think what killem2 is asking is are there any mechanical benefits or penalties defined in D&D for worshiping multiple gods (of conflicting alignment).
What? Mechanics were mentioned tangentially at most, as regards alignment. The question seems to be more about how to handle the behavior in world, where handle is a neutral term. As such:

An obvious way for it to influence the campaign is through the creation of a bunch of low level connections. The guy knows most every faith reasonably well, and follows them - as such, he is likely welcome at many churches, temples, whatever, which means connections with priests can just sort of be assumed. Have these show up occasionally, usually in a position to offer aid, but with the very rare use of them for other purposes - they get in trouble and cause it to spread to the PC, the PC is put in a situation where he is responsible for them, so on and so forth. You don't want to overuse this, but it can be valuable in small doses.

[Slipperychicken]

It seems that Factotum fluff covers this one. Bear in mind that Factotums can channel divine energy as a result of their polytheism.


Factotum Religion, Dungeonscape 18
Most factotums worship a variety of deities and have holy
symbols for every occasion. A typical factotum might offer
one prayer to Obad-Hai before venturing into the wilds,
and another to Moradin while traveling through an abandoned
dwarf mine. Factotums seek a higher understanding
of the world than a single deity can offer. Besides, they
know enough about divine magic to leach energy from a
number of gods. It pays to spread the prayers out.

[Thurbane]

What? Mechanics were mentioned tangentially at most, as regards alignment. The question seems to be more about how to handle the behavior in world, where handle is a neutral term. As such:
Yes, I should probably have said "In-game benefits or penalties", rather than mechanical.

[donnerdrummel]

hey there,

just go with it, throw him a bone every now and then and let him get in small troubles at times.
although since hes investing in the knowledge skilllet him become a specialist and over time toss him some obscure knowledge bits auch as overdeities (like ao in forgotten realms or the words of power from dead gods).
perhaps you can glean some adventure ideas from it if you can work it out and the player goes along with it (which i think he would after deciding on such a playstyle).
all in all be happy that you have a player that fleshes out his character beyond some stats and class abilities.

greetz rob

[Big Mac]

It sounds like this guy (the halfling rogue - not the OP) is "collecting deties".

From the deity names given, it sounds like a Greyhawk game (or a GH-lite game using the core rules). I would suggest getting a map of the setting, sitting down to work out where the various religions are based and then dropping a few hints about religions that are nearby.

If the NPC is becoming some sort of "deity spotter" then maybe NPCs are going to hear about his interest and talk to him about it. Perhaps some NPCs could give him useful information about churches in the next valley or the next county. Perhaps other NPCs might try to trick him into buying an almost worthless statue of a dog by claiming it was some sort of religious symbol.

Maybe he could even find an object belonging to a little known deity (like one of the ones from the Living Greyhawk deities download) and have to search around for someone who knows what it is. Perhaps there could even be a reward for rescuing long-lost religious icons and taking them to a temple of that deity.

Or if he doesn't want to blindly follow all deities, perhaps he might be interested in serving all halfling deities or all good deities and could be used as some sort of religious troubleshooter, by a number of churches that need someone to do a job for them. That could possibly be a way to drop some plot hooks at the group. (If he wants to worship all faiths, that might be harder, because all deities are opposed to other deities. Most religious plot hooks involve one religion getting one over on another religion. But there still might be a few ways to have the halfling walk the line between different organised faiths.)

And if you really want to take this guy's deity facination to the max, you could always let him discover the Hand of Vecna!:smallbiggrin:

[killem2]

My read on this is that the OP is just looking for plot hooks rather than ban hammers or nerf bats.



I think what killem2 is asking is are there any mechanical benefits or penalties defined in D&D for worshiping multiple gods (of conflicting alignment).




YES! Thank you! :D I know this player took a long time to come up with this odd ball character and I want to make sure I can do more than just give them odd ball treasure to appease him. I want it to be fun.

[TriForce]

mechanical benefits or penalties? none whatsoever.

however, storywise there is a lot that can be done with this. several gods oppose one another, gruumsh, hextor and nerull arent on good terms with correlon, heironius and pelor ( probably spelled some wrong there) you can let the thief befriend some of their worshippers and reveal that they are planning on attacking a opposing church. it will give the character some great conflict.

[Amphetryon]

Paladins and good-aligned Clerics with deities of an evangelical bent may try to save/convert your halfling, or lament the error of his ways once he moves on to the next one.

Evil deities may become vengeful even though he's not granted divine power once he strays, or they may 'tempt' him by answering prayers.

[Slipperychicken]

Perhaps he's called in to mediate a dispute between two religious groups, if both groups respect his dedication. Maybe he could be offered a job as a religious advisor after he retires, because he can offer advice and information without bias toward one god or another. Maybe some groups call him a heathen, while others admire his courageous attempt to bridge the gaps. Maybe he takes Leadership, and/or makes a cute little cult that worships all the gods. Perhaps that cult already exists, and will try to recruit him. Perhaps the Gods will think he's a fun change of pace and start playing around with him, pulling his strings and getting him to do silly things for their amusement.

I'd say genuinely loving/worshipping all gods is true neutral, or unaligned. IMO, it's not the smartest thing to do, but he could do a lot worse. I also say roll with it, and give him some fun activities that relate to his ideology.

[DoctorGlock]

A cleric of the Sovereign Host pats him on the head and gives him a copy of "Polytheism for Beginners"

He gets in a "faith-off" with five different clerics at once

Olidamra/Garl grants him patronage out of amusement

People look at him funny

People see him as the great unifier

He is hired by churches as in intermediary between various churches, mainly those with opposed alignments

He is hired by monks who see him picking up some of their aestheticism. It's part of a pyramid condo scam and he ends up milking yaks in fantasy Tibet.

[herrhauptmann]

The easiest way to play this for laughs/drama is to have him come across, and potentially befriend, two opposing faiths. Do good/evil for more drama, law/chaos for more laughs.

As for your question, the only setting I know where this would actually be a problem for him is Faerun; he could make a lot of enemies depending on which clergies he ended up running into (say, if he tried to befriend both Selune and Shar's faithful, or Lathander and Mask's.) He'd also likely end up a False in death, which sucks pretty bad for him but he'd be an NPC at that point anyway.

I like your idea, though I think he'd be more likely to end up among the faithless than the false.
If he's carrying around the holy symbols "just in case" then he has no real belief in any of them.

If he really believes in each one, but only when he uses it, then for that time, he's a fervent worshipper of that god (there's very few athiests in a foxhole). So if he dies, then he's a petitioner of the last god he prayed to, so he goes to that gods home plane.
However, not in certain cases. Like if that god is especially strict, or perhaps requires even laypeople/commonfolk to undergo certain rituals. Of course, praying to Helm for help while he's a Chaotic thief (and a bit of a coward in certain respects), means Helm might not take him. Even if he's a very fervent worshipper of Helm for the last five minutes his life.

[Leon]

If the NPC is becoming some sort of "deity spotter"

Later on publishes a book titled "What God is That"

[killem2]

Thanks guys these are some awesome ideas. I will double check with him to ask him what his long term goals are for this character.

[killem2]

Thanks guys these are some awesome ideas. I will double check with him to ask him what his long term goals are for this character.

[killem2]

Thanks guys these are some awesome ideas. I will double check with him to ask him what his long term goals are for this character.

[killem2]

I made one small mistake, it appears (after talking to the player) he is only gathering idols for non-evil gods, so he is going to be selling the hextor idol or trading it at a church if possible for another.

[cagemarrow]

One thing you could have fun with as a DM is the fact that invoking a god's name draws their attention and they can see and hear things that happen around someone who has said it recently. I think this is one of the base powers listed in Dieties and Demigods, or perhaps the Epic Level Handbook.

If he's entertaining enough perhaps some of the more light hearted dieties start a betting pool on whether or not he can succeed at various challenges that the opposing dieties put in place, with the winner gaining additional power from his prayers and perhaps rewarding him with slight bonuses or boons. Say a +1 luck bonus on some check of the DM's choice later or a gem or interesting trinket found in an unlikely spot placed just for him.

[Mantarni]

If he's entertaining enough perhaps some of the more light hearted dieties start a betting pool on whether or not he can succeed at various challenges that the opposing dieties put in place, with the winner gaining additional power from his prayers and perhaps rewarding him with slight bonuses or boons.

Say a +1 luck bonus on some check of the DM's choice later or a gem or interesting trinket found in an unlikely spot placed just for him.

YES. That has a total Discworld gods Mortals Snakes and Ladders Board Game™ vibe. :smallbiggrin:

[Lonely Tylenol]

I made one small mistake, it appears (after talking to the player) he is only gathering idols for non-evil gods, so he is going to be selling the hextor idol or trading it at a church if possible for another.

...And unintentionally falls headlong into a secret society of humanoids with the strange hobby of collecting and trading idols. They talk at length about their favorite deities, argue about which deity's "stats" are better, arrange them into "fantasy teams", and some of the more hardcore devotees to this society even use them as miniatures for games where they pretend they control the gods of their own imagined fantasy realms, along with heroes of a bygone era...

[motoko's ghost]

...And unintentionally falls headlong into a secret society of humanoids with the strange hobby of collecting and trading idols. They talk at length about their favorite deities, argue about which deity's "stats" are better, arrange them into "fantasy teams", and some of the more hardcore devotees to this society even use them as miniatures for games where they pretend they control the gods of their own imagined fantasy realms, along with heroes of a bygone era...

No recursion (http://xkcd.com/244/) in the game,please:smalltongue: