Fallout VS S.T..A.L.K.E.R.

[Newman]

You know, I've been wondering about Fallout games set in continents other than the USA. Is STALKER "Fallout IN EUROPE"? I've been told they have little in common besides being in first person and being post-nuclear.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Aye, completely different. Both great, but very different. Both have great graphics. STALKER is a little less... grey-and-brown, visually.

STALKER is much harder and more realistic, game-play wise. A few bullets to the head kill you. You need to sleep and eat, and if you get hurt you need to bandage yourself up, or else you bleed to death. It's just as much survival as it is shooting people.

Both have parts of the game where you struggle to find ammo for your weapons.

They're very different in feel, too. I personally prefer STALKER's ambience to that of Fallout, but it really is a personal preference.
I'd say try STALKER. It's a much more different feel: Fallout is much more fantasy-like: It's difficult to imagine the societies shown in Fallout actually working or existing. Because STALKER is only showing a smaller society enmeshed in modern society, it's easier to imagine. Also, everyone has Russian accents. I do love Russian accents.

[warty goblin]

You know, I've been wondering about Fallout games set in continents other than the USA. Is STALKER "Fallout IN EUROPE"? I've been told they have little in common besides being in first person and being post-nuclear.

They really don't have a lot in common. The STALKERs, particularly Shadow of Chernobyl, are pretty much devoid of upgrade-ish RPG mechanics. You can get better weapons and armor, but they all wear out and cannot be repaired, you never level up, and even the statistic increasing artifacts come with major disadvantages. Also everything has (close to) realistic weight, and you have a realistic carrying capacity, so you never haul around a minigun. Most of the weapons are real world (with fictional names), and use their actual calibre of ammunition, along with fairly realistic ballistics - the game models bullet drop, flight time and ricochets. Along with no VATs, this means it takes some serious skill to hit a moving target at range, so it's a lot of fun if you're a bit of a gun nut.

The atmospheres are completely different as well. STALKER is basically about misery, suffering, and horror. Radiation in the Fallout games is a joke, in STALKER it can kill you pretty much instantly if you're not careful. It's also not an exaggeration to say that the Zone in STALKER is literally trying to kill you (and it often succeeds). The mutants in STALKER are also a different kettle of fish, they're mean, have much better AI, and can do...weird stuff.

Generally, actually, STALKER is just better.

[Weezer]

One thing about STALKER to realize is that it's hard. For instance if you let your guard down the same bandits you fought 15 minutes into the game can still kill you a chunk of the way through the story line, guns are realistically inaccurate (pistols are pretty useless at any non-trivial distance), there are anomalies that will suck you in and blow you up if you stop paying attention, things like that combine to make an incredibly lethal game. Also the feel is very, very Eastern European/Russian. It is dark, dismal and with a pervading feeling of futility. Just the kind of thing I love, though it isn't everyone's cup of tea.

[KingofMadCows]

Fallout is really more of a post post apocalyptic game. The first game is set 70 years after the end of the war. You see the return of civilization.

There's none of that in STALKER. No one is trying to fix up Chernobyl. People are just there to scavenge for artifacts and technology.

As for difficulty, STALKER is very hard. The first two Fallouts can be difficult but there are multiple ways of resolving most situations. FO3 and NV are really easy.

[GloatingSwine]

If your're after Falloutski it's worth looking at Metro 2033. It presents a very different take on post apocalyptic survival, though it's more srs bsnsss than Fallout.

Oh, and you can play it all in Russian, for extra atmosphere.

[shadow_archmagi]

One thing about STALKER to realize is that it's hard. For instance if you let your guard down the same bandits you fought 15 minutes into the game can still kill you a chunk of the way through the story line, guns are realistically inaccurate (pistols are pretty useless at any non-trivial distance), there are anomalies that will suck you in and blow you up if you stop paying attention, things like that combine to make an incredibly lethal game. Also the feel is very, very Eastern European/Russian. It is dark, dismal and with a pervading feeling of futility. Just the kind of thing I love, though it isn't everyone's cup of tea.

Well, for a given value of hard. I think the best way I ever heard difficulty discussed was

"Wow. This game is really hard! I was half dead even before I got to learn the controls!"

"Wow. This game is easy! I blundered around like a drunken moose and didn't even die once!"

STALKER still gives the player a tremendous advantage over the AI, such that you can take on six to twelve enemies with reasonable odds of success. It's just that you need to be a bit more careful about it.

STALKER is like Blade Runner, or A Scanner Darkly. Grim, always raining, and it's unclear if the protagonist is really doing a good thing, or if good things even exist.

[Newman]

STALKER sounds challenging as a shooter, but is it as good as Operation Flashpoint, which my GI friends can't shut up about?

Oh, and just letting you know, I opened a thread to toss around other postpostapocalyptic settings for falloutish stories (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226901). I can see a lot of potential for it in the form of expansion packs for local markets, but, well, I have no way of getting that to Bethesda, so what I thought was, maybe I'd write fanfics or roleplay it tabletop-style (http://es.scribd.com/doc/2563348/Fallout-PenPaper-A-post-Nuclear-RPG).

Here are the setting ideas I've been tossing around, first draft...






Fallout London: Honestly, I'd go for broke and make it a direct sequel to the V For Vendetta comics, with the Serial Numbers Filed Off. Basically, England escapes the actual Fallout, but the fascist regime that came after the war was toppled, decades later, by V and his followers, leaving anarchy. From there, a new society tries to create itself. I know little about English (or UK) politics, so I have no idea what factions would be a colourfoul rehash of the post WWII tensions...
Fallout: Berlin: the Wall and the Iron Curtain have fallen to the strategic nuclear missiles exchanged between Western Europe and the Soviet Block. Berlin, smack-dab in the middle, was blown up. Between the fiercely anti-communist, hedonistic, whoring and magnificently alive Westerners, the haunted, police-state ridden Easterners, the Neo-Nazis (there always are Neo-Nazis) of the Thule Society, the Soviet's Enclave counterpart and their ploys to take control of everything, the Teutonic Knights and the militaristic and low-tech Neo-Prussians, the city... is actually more of a nest of spies than a warzone. Intrigue, plotting and backstabbing fire right and left as the different factions try to break the stalemate, restore the region's brutal industrial power and recover the lost pre-war knowledge and know-how. For whover manages to grasp full control of the city's resources, especially of its brains, could take over the world, for better or for worse. Music. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBLBD2zyogA)
Fallout: Paris: French May 68 never occurred, and French society, till the war, has remained a Catholic, purtiannical, extremely classist system, where social mobility is null, patronizing and hierarchy is the norm, and productivity is the only measure of the value of a human. And women don't have the vote yet. Now it's all been blow up. In Paris, the City of Light, darkness reigns. As civilization tries to grow anew, the Dreamers (NOT Hippies, check French May 68 on wikipedia, of which this would be a belated and therefore more extremist and "advanced" version) are trying to overthrow the Regime of the Old (as they call the Gaullist Gauls, staunch traditionalists and disciplinarians, militaristic, xenophobic and chauvinistic to the extreme). The Neo-Monarchists, a minority in numbers, but strong in caps, connections and intellectual expertise, want to outright recover the Old Regime. Then there's the Guillotins. Those are just pissed off. Oh, and there's always routine wasteland immorality. Anyone here seen "Delicatessen"? Music. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0feNVUwQA8U&feature=fvst) Music. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3fpCztWWug&feature=fvst)
Fallout Bagdad: ... I have a most wonderful demonstration of this concept, which this margin is too small to contain. Music. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQY6Ou0UAog&feature=related)
Fallout Jerusalem: I don't even want to get into this one. It has a lot of potential for a lot of things. Among them, for being freaking offensive to people who have shown little sense of humor.
Fallout: Casablanca: take Casablanca the movie, as well as Casanegra (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ILH8s-Zy4Y), and work from there...
Fallout Japan: I'd take the ambiance of the classical existentialist novel "No Longer Human (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Longer_Human)", some bits from the manga Akagi, and take all of Japan's most fascist, distopic elements and cram them together up to eleven. Then blow Tokyo up. For the umpteenth time. Heck, make the setting be Hiroshima instead, and have it nuked AGAIN, by the Chinese this time.

.

EDIT: Metro 2033 seems AMAZING, why didn't I hear of this thing before?

Also, anyone here know of any videogames where the morality of your character is actually interesting? Stalker feels nice from what I hear. Fallout is really really too black-and-white. Plus, after two genocides, I can become a saint by giving a beggar purified water?

[Weezer]

Well, for a given value of hard. I think the best way I ever heard difficulty discussed was

"Wow. This game is really hard! I was half dead even before I got to learn the controls!"

"Wow. This game is easy! I blundered around like a drunken moose and didn't even die once!"

STALKER still gives the player a tremendous advantage over the AI, such that you can take on six to twelve enemies with reasonable odds of success. It's just that you need to be a bit more careful about it.

STALKER is like Blade Runner, or A Scanner Darkly. Grim, always raining, and it's unclear if the protagonist is really doing a good thing, or if good things even exist.

Forgot to mention it earlier, but I'm using the Complete Mod, which apparently completely overhauls the AI, making it much harder. This mod is very necessary to avoid the many problems with the original release game, it wasn't very polished. At all.

[Newman]

I hear there were some amusing cases of Artificial Stupidity.

[Flickerdart]

Fallout is a game where you explode green mutants into bloody chunks using portable nuclear bombs. STALKER is a game where you're walking through the wilderness at night when the road sucks you in and eats you, or bloodsuckers decloak and eat you, or a swarm of dogs runs up and eats you. Metro 2033 is like STALKER only instead of being free-roaming you're restricted area-wise, and it pretends to have a stealth element (which is broken). Of the three, STALKER is the best, and of the three STALKER games, Call of Pripyat is the best.

STALKER is also very roughly based on the absolutely amazing book Roadside Picnic (and the much less amazing movie Stalker). Metro 2033 is much more directly based on the utterly mediocre book of the same name.

[Weezer]

I hear there were some amusing cases of Artificial Stupidity.

I haven't run into any, but that's probably the mod. The AI I've come across have been damn intelligent, from pulling back and waiting for reinforcements to one person suppressing me while the other flanks me and kills me with a single burst to the head. They're nasty. (and this is on easiest, I had to drop it down after I died 10 times on the first mission)

[Flickerdart]

Shadow of Chernobyl had some pretty ridiculous bugs. There's a mod (STALKER Complete, IIRC) that fixes them.

[KingofMadCows]

Also, anyone here know of any videogames where the morality of your character is actually interesting? Stalker feels nice from what I hear. Fallout is really really too black-and-white. Plus, after two genocides, I can become a saint by giving a beggar purified water?

The first two Fallouts aren't completely black and white.

There's also Planescape: Torment, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2, Legacy of Kain series, and the last two campaigns in Heroes of Might and Magic 4.


Fallout is a game where you explode green mutants into bloody chunks using portable nuclear bombs.

You mean Fallout 3 is a game where you explode green mutants into bloody chunks using portable nuclear bombs.

[sucatraps]

SoC also has enemies that can either headshot you with no warning from the vicinity of England or be totally useless and blunder about in the open when cover is two feet away. It depends entirely on what the game is feeling like.

And yes, S.T.A.K.L.E.R. complete patch mostly fixes this.

[Newman]

The first two Fallouts aren't completely black and white.

There's also Planescape: Torment, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2, Legacy of Kain series, and the last two campaigns in Heroes of Might and Magic 4.



You mean Fallout 3 is a game where you explode green mutants into bloody chunks using portable nuclear bombs.

I thought Knight Of The Old Republic was a base-breaking troll game? And you mean Fallout 1 and 2 are games where you can fire a rocket at a child's groin.

[shadow_archmagi]

a base-breaking troll game?

Er, what? I have no idea what those words are meant to convey when put together

[warty goblin]

STALKER sounds challenging as a shooter, but is it as good as Operation Flashpoint, which my GI friends can't shut up about?

That depends what you're looking for. Operation Flashpoint (or as it's currently known ArmA: Cold War Assault (http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/arma_cold_war_assault)) is undeniably more realistic, and if anything pushes the AI driven gameplay even farther. Pretty much the point of OpFlash (the original, not the Codemasters developed sequels Dragon Rising and Red River) is to be as realistic a representation of infantry combat as possible - think a flight sim where you play as a soldier instead of an airplane.

(incidentally the original OpFlash is totally worth what GoG's charging on that link I sent. If you like it and want more, try the ArmA games - skip ArmA, and go to ArmA II, either Combined Arms, Complete or Operation Arrowhead).

The point of STALKER is basically atmosphere. It uses the realistic guns to build the feeling of difficulty and player weakness, but its end goal isn't a realistic fireteam game.



EDIT: Metro 2033 seems AMAZING, why didn't I hear of this thing before?

Also, anyone here know of any videogames where the morality of your character is actually interesting? Stalker feels nice from what I hear. Fallout is really really too black-and-white. Plus, after two genocides, I can become a saint by giving a beggar purified water?
Metro 2033 does some very interesting things with mechanics tying into the narrative, which can make it very moving if you let it - it's the only game that's ever actually brought tears to my eyes - hampered by slightly kludgy shooting. It's also absolutely completely and utterly a corridor shooter, albeit with truly amazing looking corridors and a bit of an in-game economy.

For interesting morality, really your best shot are the Witcher games. Usually both sides of the conflict have their heroes and their villains (who can be the same people), a world that never seems to revolve completely about the player character, and far-reaching consequences to your actions. That is you can make a (seemingly minor) choice and only hours later will its major consequences become clear. It's pretty much always in a believable way too, so you're never left feeling victimized by failing to mindread the writers. You may feel victimized by the characters, but that's a sign of good writing.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I thought Knight Of The Old Republic was a base-breaking troll game? And you mean Fallout 1 and 2 are games where you can fire a rocket at a child's groin.

Knights of the Old Republic 2 simply wasn't finished. Bearing in mind that it's Star Wars, of all things, it's got a very nuanced plot.

As for the first two Fallouts (the ones I've played)...well, while the antagonists of both games are definitely Villainous with a capital Saturday Morning Cartoon, the thing is that even while fighting them you've got equally valid options of being a hero of justice or a villainous jerk or anywhere in between.

There's also a lot more nuance to what constitutes the right thing and the wrong thing among the side quests of the game (which, let's face it, are really what Fallout's story is about). A good example would be the various political double-dealings between Vault City and Gecko (do too much underhanded dealing for the greater good and you screw Gecko) or all the assassination and under-the-table shenanigans between VC, the NCR, and Bishop. No matter how you deal with that quest, you're going to kill an old man in cold blood if you want it resolved. Possibly after nailing his wife, and that's an option for the "Good" resolution. Arguably the best, since it involves only decapitating the Bishops rather than slaughtering all of them.

Not going to defend the Karma meter, though. Thing's borked.

[Yora]

The AI I've come across have been damn intelligent, from pulling back and waiting for reinforcements to one person suppressing me while the other flanks me and kills me with a single burst to the head. They're nasty.
Stalker is the one game where you can't just get behind a good piece of cover and kill all enemies while staying put and they try to run towards you. Except for a few bottlenecks where there really is only one way to get to you and you can just headshot everyone who comes around that one corner, enemies will get into cover and try to encircle you and get at your flanks and your back. Unless you are sniping some guys in an open field from a nearby hill, you constantly have to check your flanks and find a new spot for cover. It's pretty fun.

I don't think the game is really that hard. It only requires you to be careful and not charge right at the enemy. They aim well and do a lot of damage. But if you attack them from a distance with good cover and conserve ammo with well places shots, you can handle most situations easily.
Which in many cases means avoiding a fight or running away. But that's part of the game. You don't really have kill most enemies you encounter. Inside basements it's best to clear out everything so they don't shot you in the back while you are looting corpses, but outside in the open, you can chose whom to fight and when to murder people and loot their stuff. :smallbiggrin:

[Triaxx]

As much as I love the idea of STALKER, I just haven't been able to get into it. I guess I'll have to give it a further shot when I'm not totally distracted.

But it's so different from Fallout that it's really like comparing consoles to PC's. Two completely different target audiences.

As for Fallout 2, I'm sort of the ultimate good guy. I nailed his wife and daughter before I killed Bishop.

[factotum]

I have to say, it boggles my mind to think that anyone might believe STALKER and Fallout have anything at all in common. I don't think even the setting is that similar--Fallout is set in an alternate far future with mostly 1950s levels of technology, whereas STALKER is set in the present day and has present day tech levels. As far as game genre goes, STALKER is a first person shooter with some (mild) RPG elements, whereas Fallout is a full-on RPG where the actual skill of your in-game character will often have more influence on your ability to do something than your own twitch reflexes.

[Yora]

Both games have mutants, guns, and rust.
And there it pretty much ends.

[Newman]

And radiation, don't forget about the radiation.

[KingofMadCows]

There's barely any radiation in the first two Fallouts or in NV.

[Weezer]

And radiation, don't forget about the radiation.

Except radiation if FO3 and NV is 90% of the time green drippy stuff and contaminated food. In STALKER you can stumble into radiation anywhere and the only sign of it is your geiger counter going crazy and perhaps your vision going fuzzy. Completely different animals.

[shadow_archmagi]

Also, Fallout radiation gives you a -2 if you bathe in it for a half hour. Stalker radiation has you dead within a few minutes of stumbling into it.

[Newman]

Also, Fallout radiation gives you a -2 if you bathe in it for a half hour. Stalker radiation has you dead within a few minutes of stumbling into it.

If that were true, I wouldn't have needed Fawkes back at Marypony and the ending of the main quest wouldn't have been so frustrating. Heck, I'd ahve entered that vault through the front door.

I'm a bit frustrated because I never saw the point of the notion of "Radiation Poisoning"· besides "You'll die if you keep this up". No new arms, no sixth toes, no cancer... Did I miss something?

[shadow_archmagi]

If that were true, I wouldn't have needed Fawkes back at Marypony and the ending of the main quest wouldn't have been so frustrating. Heck, I'd ahve entered that vault through the front door.

I'm a bit frustrated because I never saw the point of the notion of "Radiation Poisoning"· besides "You'll die if you keep this up". No new arms, no sixth toes, no cancer... Did I miss something?

The main quest is an exception. Everywhere else in the game that I've been has a rad rate of 1 or or 2 points per second. You only take minor penalties until you reach like, 1000. You can get completely purged at any doctor, and there's a doctor in any town which you can fast travel to from anywhere that isn't covered in bears.

[Erloas]

I'm a bit frustrated because I never saw the point of the notion of "Radiation Poisoning"· besides "You'll die if you keep this up". No new arms, no sixth toes, no cancer... Did I miss something?
In Fallout 2 you can get a 6th toe, and its useful. And at least in 1&2 if you get some radiation built up and don't have kits it will generally kill you before you can get to a place to fix it.
Of course in general radiation really isn't much of an issue and its fairly easy to deal with. Its more of a plot device and inventory control thing then a real threat.

I really wanted to like Stalker more... but I never really got into it. Of course I know a lot of that is me, I really haven't found many games at all lately that I can really get into. I just don't think I have the free time to really get into such a challenging game.
And I haven't quite pin pointed what it was about Fallout 3, but I didn't really care for it at all, I think it was mostly lots and lots of little things that just added up.

[Newman]

And I haven't quite pin pointed what it was about Fallout 3, but I didn't really care for it at all, I think it was mostly lots and lots of little things that just added up.

I think it's just that the writing and the dialogue really weren't all that good, and really got in the way of story immersion. Well, Skyrim was pretty awesome (much better than Oblivion), so here's hoping that Fallout 4 will be even better than that. The music was awesome though...


I'm as corny as Kansas in August,
High as a flag on the Fourth of July!
If you'll excuse an expression I use...

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2007/07/fallout-3-headshot-censor.jpg

I'M IN LOVE I'M IN LOVE I'M IN LOVE I'M IN LOVE I'M IN LOVE I'M IN LOVE
WITH A WONDEFUL GUUUUUY...


Here's a funny comic...
Here's some lampshades on the game's oddities (http://memegenerator.net/Fallout-3/images/popular)

[shadow_archmagi]

Here's a funny comic...
Here's some lampshades on the game's oddities (http://memegenerator.net/Fallout-3/images/popular)

To be fair, those are pretty much universally true. Skyrim is the same engine, after all.

Besides, one of my favorite experiences was wandering into Rivet City and finding the musuem.

I turned on the radio and a woman next to me screamed "DEAR GOD WE"RE ALL GOING TO DIE" and ran screaming from the room. I guess they're not fans of civilization.

[Nerd-o-rama]

In Fallout 2 you can get a 6th toe, and its useful.

Use it on the final boss!


And at least in 1&2 if you get some radiation built up and don't have kits it will generally kill you before you can get to a place to fix it.

It's basically there to keep you from going to certain areas without Rad-X and to be a minor annoyance when fighting Golden Geckos or Glowing ones.

EDIT: And screw Bethesda and their definitions of property crime.

[Zen Master]

So .... just to disagree with everyone - I'm of the opinion that STALKER is a far better Fallout game than Fallout 3. But then ... I'm one of those guys. Who still stubbornly think Fallout shouldn't be 3d. I would have kinda liked Fallout 3 if it didn't try to be Fallout - if they'd just named it something else.

More to the point of the thread: If you like Fallout 1&2, I think you might like STALKER.

[Newman]

Never could get into Fallout. It's the outdated interface, and also not being told where to go at all.

[Zen Master]

Never could get into Fallout. It's the outdated interface, and also not being told where to go at all.

Well - it's not that you're not partially right, but you do get directions. Go to Hub, it's to the east ... or something along those lines. But it doesn't have a map with your objectives conveniently displayed, and a compass pointing the way.

Anyways - I don't want to hijack the thread.

[Erloas]

So .... just to disagree with everyone - I'm of the opinion that STALKER is a far better Fallout game than Fallout 3. But then ... I'm one of those guys. Who still stubbornly think Fallout shouldn't be 3d. I would have kinda liked Fallout 3 if it didn't try to be Fallout - if they'd just named it something else.Yeah, I'm there too. Fallout 3 is not the 3rd Fallout, its a completely different game set in pretty much the same universe (its not even completely the same). They don't share any any bit of gameplay and they are about as far apart as you can get and still be considered an RPG.


Never could get into Fallout. It's the outdated interface, and also not being told where to go at all.
You are referring to 1&2 right? (I'm assuming from the outdated interface)
You are told where to go, but there is a big part of the game trying to figure out where that is. As for the interface, when I first played them that was cutting edge, so I was used to it so can't really say what it would feel like for someone to come back to, having not grown up with the interface designs. A good portion of the gameplay mechanics and interface are tied together and I really like the mechanics of the game and wish we would see more of that tactical type of RPG combat rather then the real-time shooter sort of RPGs we see now. As most RPGs come across more as action games then RPGs to me.
Of course if you're talking about Fallout 3, not sure what to say. I don't remember getting lost in it, but I don't think I got all that far into the game either. Although some of the side missions seemed really vague and undirected, the storyline seemed very straight forward. The interface didn't stand out to me one way or the other.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Rule of thumb in Fallout: find any big circles on your map you haven't been to and go there. If you don't have any of those, ask for directions.

That said, FO1's very early game is zomewhat painful if you don't either have a walkthrough or think for ten seconds after running into the dead ends at Vault 15. FO2's is painful simply because screw the Temple of Trials.

[warty goblin]

You are referring to 1&2 right? (I'm assuming from the outdated interface)
You are told where to go, but there is a big part of the game trying to figure out where that is. As for the interface, when I first played them that was cutting edge, so I was used to it so can't really say what it would feel like for someone to come back to, having not grown up with the interface designs. A good portion of the gameplay mechanics and interface are tied together and I really like the mechanics of the game and wish we would see more of that tactical type of RPG combat rather then the real-time shooter sort of RPGs we see now. As most RPGs come across more as action games then RPGs to me.

I tried Fallout 1 and Tactics, and found the interface pretty bad. Tactics moreso, because the things that were slightly annoying to do for one character were simply infuriating for three or so - I do not want to have to open a submenu to sneak damnit! For Fallout 1 the menu wasn't so much bad as the gameplay incredibly dull; I like turnbased combat but it either needs to be fast and elegant like Castle of the Winds or deep and complex. Fallout's was neither, and the cumbersome interface just drug the whole thing out.

I found Fallout 3 to be simply bleh. The landscape was ugly in a boring way, the shooting jerky, VATS was simply tedious after the first two hours or so, and the entire thing just didn't work for me.

STALKER however is made of goodness. Shadow of Chernobyl is the only game I've ever found so scary it kept me up at night...goddamn bloodsuckers.

[Manga Shoggoth]

STALKER however is made of goodness. Shadow of Chernobyl is the only game I've ever found so scary it kept me up at night...goddamn bloodsuckers.

Indeed. The first time you meet a controller...

STALKER SoC is a good game, especially if you patch it up and stick Stalker Complete 2009 on top of it. (I'm finding STALKER Clear Sky much less interesting). The main problem with it is that the "main quest" could really do with being longer.

Unfortunaley, not played fallout, so can't help with the comparisons.

[warty goblin]

Indeed. The first time you meet a controller...

STALKER SoC is a good game, especially if you patch it up and stick Stalker Complete 2009 on top of it. (I'm finding STALKER Clear Sky much less interesting). The main problem with it is that the "main quest" could really do with being longer.

Unfortunaley, not played fallout, so can't help with the comparisons.

I've only ever played the unmodded versions, partly because there's so many definitive mods out there I'm never sure which one is best, and partly because a lot of the things the mods say they fix I actually enjoy - all the equipment wearing out and being irreparable to me fits the atmosphere of decay and human failure much better than running down to the local gunsmith and polishing up your AK. This is probably why Call of Pripyat doesn't click for me, the atmosphere is simply too human, and humans are the least interesting part of the Zone.

About not playing the Fallouts, save your money and time and don't. I've already said why I find Fallout 1 bad, Fallout 2 is same engine, and Fallout Tactic's entire existence is pretty much nullified by Jagged Alliance 2.

[shadow_archmagi]

About not playing the Fallouts, save your money and time and don't. 2.

I found them all enjoyable! Except tactics, which I didn't play.


all the equipment wearing out and being irreparable to me fits the atmosphere of decay and human failure much better than running down to the local gunsmith and polishing up your AK. This is probably why Call of Pripyat doesn't click for me, the atmosphere is simply too human, and humans are the least interesting part of the Zone.


I feel like the customization mechanic in Pripyat is an interesting one because it means you can have a favorite shooter, one that's uniquely yours. That's what STALKER is all about, in my opinion- going into a harsh, unforgiving world, and then claiming what you can. Sometimes it's a helmet, or some packs of food, or even just a memory- but it's all yours, clawed from the depths of hell. Being able to spend my hard-earned cash to make a weapon perfectly fit my fighting style goes with that.


So .... just to disagree with everyone - I'm of the opinion that STALKER is a far better Fallout game than Fallout 3. But then ... I'm one of those guys. Who still stubbornly think Fallout shouldn't be 3d. I would have kinda liked Fallout 3 if it didn't try to be Fallout - if they'd just named it something else.

More to the point of the thread: If you like Fallout 1&2, I think you might like STALKER.

I don't think everyone in the thread hated STALKER. Where'd you get that vibe?

I'm also pretty sure that Fallout 1-2 are completely different from STALKER

[Cespenar]

Meh to y'all. Fallout 1&2 had good writing, hilarious dialogues and an awesome setting. Never mind the interface, I'd have played it if it was on stone tablets.

Now Fallout 3. One of the few games that I actually realized that I was using pure willpower to continue rather than enjoying it, then simply quit and purged the game from my hard drive.

To clarify that I'm not a 2d fanboy (well, I am, but never mind), I liked New Vegas. The writing was much more tolerable.

Also, this thread is making me reconsider trying STALKER, but I have a strong dislike against survival horror-ish stuff, so I don't know.

[Triaxx]

I really wanted to like Jagged Alliance. But it seemed to sit at that edge between RTT, and RTS, that I just couldn't get used to. I lacked the fine control of Tactics, but didn't have the mass command options of an RTS.

I enjoy Tactics, I really do. Because it's all about positioning the squad in such a way that the enemy dies before they realize you're killing them. I mean, setting a shotgunner with a double barrel and setting them along a wall, so that the enemy gets dusted as he walks into range.

[Erloas]

Meh to y'all. Fallout 1&2 had good writing, hilarious dialogues and an awesome setting. Never mind the interface, I'd have played it if it was on stone tablets.
Yeah, that was the "so obvious I forgot about it" part of Fallout 1&2. They were really funny and gave you real options that all worked. The black humor was just blended in so well and it gave the whole setting character.
I could see where they tried it in FO3, but to me a lot of it just seemed forced and unnatural.

[Newman]

Yeah, that was the "so obvious I forgot about it" part of Fallout 1&2. They were really funny and gave you real options that all worked. The black humor was just blended in so well and it gave the whole setting character.
I could see where they tried it in FO3, but to me a lot of it just seemed forced and unnatural.

I never got there... I died twice in the cave entry, twice with the caravan, fighting radhogs.

I really reall miss the open landscapes of Fallout3. The isometric 2D anguishes me.

[Cespenar]

I could see where they tried it in FO3, but to me a lot of it just seemed forced and unnatural.

I faintly remember Todd Howard or some other bigwig saying that they had found the humor in Fallout 2 "juvenile" or "childish" or somesuch, and that was one of the things they will definitely improve on in Fallout 3.

Yeah, great job there.


I really reall miss the open landscapes of Fallout3. The isometric 2D anguishes me.

As much as I dislike Fallout 3 and love the isometric 2D, the detail they gave to the open landscapes of Fallout 3 was one of the few redeeming qualities of the game, in my opinion. If it's one thing Bethesda succeeds, it's making the game world look pretty.

[Flickerdart]

If it's one thing Bethesda succeeds, it's making the game world look brown.
Fixed it for you.

[chiasaur11]

Fixed it for you.

Green, if I remember.

And it's still pretty. That's the remarkable part. It's a mucked up, nuked over wasteland where nothing can grow and it still looks nice enough every instinct goes "Yes. I want to go to there."

Not bad work.

[iyaerP]

It isn't half so pretty as the Red Forest in Clear Sky. Place was GORGEOUS.

I feel, however like I was playing STALKER somewhat differently than other people, because I never suffered from resource shortage (save in the very beginning) but rather a resource GLUT, where I would have the three guns I was using on my person, all my backups in the Bar, a ton of extra ammo at the bar, and random resource chaches spread across the zone for when I needed 25 more medkits.

[Starbuck_II]

I found them all enjoyable! Except tactics, which I didn't play.


Even Brotherhood of Steel (some claim it doesn't exist)?

[warty goblin]

I really wanted to like Jagged Alliance. But it seemed to sit at that edge between RTT, and RTS, that I just couldn't get used to. I lacked the fine control of Tactics, but didn't have the mass command options of an RTS.

I enjoy Tactics, I really do. Because it's all about positioning the squad in such a way that the enemy dies before they realize you're killing them. I mean, setting a shotgunner with a double barrel and setting them along a wall, so that the enemy gets dusted as he walks into range.

Are you talking about the same Jagged Alliance, because the game's pretty much purely turnbased - it only goes realtime for between combat movements. For the actual shooty-dudes parts it's purely AP turnbased, with a fairly intuitive interface.

[Triaxx]

Yeah, I meant TBT, and TBS, but I mis-typed.

[KingofMadCows]

If you don't like Jagged Alliance, then you should try Silent Storm, which is pretty much the spiritual successor of the game.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

My STALKER life. Finally get my guts together to run through the radiation to the Dark Forest, and make it through. Minus rad artifacts help. Ambush bandit group. They don't even see me coming. Obtain scope. Realize, eventually, that my gun pulls slightly to the right over long ranges, and learn to compensate. Clear out factory: attempt 1, get to roof of main building, turn around, get shot in head at point-blank-range by a bandit that followed me up the stairs. Die. Attempt 2, clear complex succesfully, drop out of chute to ground, turn around, get shot in back of head by bandit I happened to drop right in front of. Die.

Just another day in the Zone.

[Etcetera]

My STALKER life. Finally get my guts together to run through the radiation to the Dark Forest, and make it through. Minus rad artifacts help. Ambush bandit group. They don't even see me coming. Obtain scope. Realize, eventually, that my gun pulls slightly to the right over long ranges, and learn to compensate. Clear out factory: attempt 1, get to roof of main building, turn around, get shot in head at point-blank-range by a bandit that followed me up the stairs. Die. Attempt 2, clear complex succesfully, drop out of chute to ground, turn around, get shot in back of head by bandit I happened to drop right in front of. Die.

Just another day in the Zone.

Dark Valley? Oh, you're gonna love it when you get to the lab.

Generally, an MP5 is very good for taking out bandits, as it has good magazine size, low recoil, weight, and reload time, ammo is cheap, light, and common, and their armour isn't good enough to stop the bullets.

[Yora]

What? My experience with the MP5 (viper, I belive) was that it is complete junk. You use it when all else you have is a pistol and sawed off shotgun, but once I get my hands on the first Kalashnikov, I never touch those things again.
Unless I run completely out of ammo, then I pick one up from a dead bandit and throw it away when I find new ammo or reach civilization.

The Dark Valley Bandit complex is tough. I think one of the nastiests parts of the game. Other parts have worse enemies, but then you have much better equipment.
And yes, welcome to the first lab. Apparently scares the **** out of lots of people.:smallbiggrin:

[Etcetera]

What? My experience with the MP5 (viper, I belive) was that it is complete junk. You use it when all else you have is a pistol and sawed off shotgun, but once I get my hands on the first Kalashnikov, I never touch those things again.
Unless I run completely out of ammo, then I pick one up from a dead bandit and throw it away when I find new ammo or reach civilization.

It's useless at any range more than a stone's throw, particularly against anyone wearing armour, so yes, most of the time you should ignore it. It's pretty useful for the Dark Valley bandit base, though, since it's light enough to be carried in addition to an Assault rifle, and almost all the bandits carry 9x19mm sidearms. And wear crappy armour.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I'm using a legit rifle right now, so I'm good.
And I've heard horror stories about the first lab. That's the one with poltergeist, right? I'm not gonna lie, when I ran into a bloodsucker in the tunnels on the way to Strelok's Hideout, I almost died of fear. That was terrifying. And that momentary glimpse of what I think was a Controller when leaving the tunnels freaked me out.

[Etcetera]

Not sure how to quote without breaking whitetext.

Yes, the momentary glimpse was of a controller.

All I will say for the lab is that in one room you can find a grenade launcher and two grenades. Hang on to those for the rest of the lab.

Oh, uh, Fallout. Well, I quite liked it, but I've never been able to push myself to finish a game.

[Yora]

Well, we could tell you how the Labs are both not that bad for several reasons. But what would be the fun of that? :smallbiggrin:

[Etcetera]

Well, we could tell you how the Labs are both not that bad for several reasons. But what would be the fun of that? :smallbiggrin:

Plus, even if we do, we'll be technically right when you get to the third lab and run screaming out of there like a little girl.

[Yora]

Which third one? The Brain Scorcher?

[Etcetera]

Which third one? The Brain Scorcher?

Eeyup. x-10, iirc.

[Weezer]

Wait. You were supposed to run from the controller? I ended up killing it after dying about 20 times...

[Etcetera]

Wait. You were supposed to run from the [EXPUNGED]? I ended up killing it after dying about 20 times...

You can kill it, but you don't need to. Personally, I took it down with two grenades and some 5.56.

[Weezer]

You can kill it, but you don't need to. Personally, I took it down with two grenades and some 5.56.

I eventually figured out how far down the corridor I walked before it spawned, then sprinted straight at it just as I crossed the line and unloaded two shotgun blasts to its head. It was quite satisfying.

[Yora]

I never understood why anyone considers them dangerous. Get close enough for easy aiming and pump them full of lead, and they fall over dead like anything else.
Trying to shot them from 30 meters away while they give you an aneurism would probably not work that well, but as one of the few mutant that does not try to hug you and eat your face you can always dispatch them easily without breaking a sweat.

[Asheram]

I never understood why anyone considers them dangerous. Get close enough for easy aiming and pump them full of lead, and they fall over dead like anything else.
Trying to shot them from 30 meters away while they give you an aneurism would probably not work that well, but as one of the few mutant that does not try to hug you and eat your face you can always dispatch them easily without breaking a sweat.

The problem is that since they're psycic and friggin' terrifying to look at, getting close isn't really the first thing that comes to mind when you are attacked by one.

[Flickerdart]

When I first encountered one, I thought the weird zoom-in thing it does was the start of a cinematic. The second time it happened, I thought something was amiss, and once I realized half of my health was gone, I finally realized that was an attack mode.

[Yora]

The problem is that since they're psycic and friggin' terrifying to look at, getting close isn't really the first thing that comes to mind when you are attacked by one.
Me and Stalker have a strange relationship. I am usually a huge chicken when it comes to even slightly scary games. When I was 15, Half-Life scared me so much I never played for a long time. Except for Stalker. The jump scare with the first Bloodsucker got me, and Snorks get the adrenaline up, but that game never really got to get me scared to continue deeper underground.

[Weezer]

I never understood why anyone considers them dangerous. Get close enough for easy aiming and pump them full of lead, and they fall over dead like anything else.
Trying to shot them from 30 meters away while they give you an aneurism would probably not work that well, but as one of the few mutant that does not try to hug you and eat your face you can always dispatch them easily without breaking a sweat.

I think it's because it's the only enemy in the game you want to charge, instead of trying to carefully eliminate at range. So when I try my usual strategy I die horribly and it took me a while to figure out the game wanted me to do everything different for this one battle.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I have no clue what's up with the Controllers yet. All I know is they make my screen go funky, and I go up the ladder ASAP and all my health is gone.

[warty goblin]

I never understood why anyone considers them dangerous. Get close enough for easy aiming and pump them full of lead, and they fall over dead like anything else.
Trying to shot them from 30 meters away while they give you an aneurism would probably not work that well, but as one of the few mutant that does not try to hug you and eat your face you can always dispatch them easily without breaking a sweat.

I think the issue with controllers is that they're so damn weird and STALKER's so minimal about the information it gives you that it's easy to hit the first one and not have a sodding clue what is going on. Once you figure out how to kill 'em they're not that hard, but when you first run into a controller you probably don't know how to do that.

[Cristo Meyers]

I think the issue with controllers is that they're so damn weird and STALKER's so minimal about the information it gives you that it's easy to hit the first one and not have a sodding clue what is going on. Once you figure out how to kill 'em they're not that hard, but when you first run into a controller you probably don't know how to do that.

And as I think someone pointed out earlier: your first instinct is most likely not going to be "run up and knife 'im!"

[Yora]

I think it's possible that I died one or two times trying to shot it. But when you realize he's just standing there, shuffling about, and you just can't get an aim on him from the other end of the corridor, shotgun to the face seems quite intuitive to me.
After all, that's how you deal with all the monsters in the game. :smallbiggrin:

[Cristo Meyers]

I think it's possible that I died one or two times trying to shot it. But when you realize he's just standing there, shuffling about, and you just can't get an aim on him from the other end of the corridor, shotgun to the face seems quite intuitive to me.
After all, that's how you deal with all the monsters in the game. :smallbiggrin:

Yup, very little in the way of non-human critters a load of buckshot or two can't solve. :smallbiggrin:

I remember knowing that one of the better ways to deal with that controller was to knife it in the eye, but I used to read GameFAQS a lot back then...

[iyaerP]

And as I think someone pointed out earlier: your first instinct is most likely not going to be "run up and knife 'im!"

To be fair, the knife in the first game IS some kind of vorpal god-splitter from beyond the stars, but the collision for it is so buggy that you rarely land hits with it, even when touching the enemy. But if you ever do, it instakills them.

[shadow_archmagi]

Personally, I save the larger grenades exclusively for controllers. CTRL+F1 solves all your problems.

[Yora]

Since the Stalker Thread is starting to smell funny and we're gone to just talk about Stalker here.

"This one's alive..."
No BULLSH-! (http://oxcgn.com/2011/12/24/s-t-a-l-k-e-r-2-still-in-development-gsc-still-alive/)

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Oh good. I was actually so sad when I heard they went under, and was only slightly expecting good things when they started tweeting about light at the end of the tunnel, and stuff. Wasn't expecting them to actually dig themselves out.

[GolemsVoice]

Oh, good! I was fearing STALKER 2 would never be released. A sad world this would be, for sure.

[GungHo]

And as I think someone pointed out earlier: your first instinct is most likely not going to be "run up and knife 'im!"
I screamed like a little girl.

[warty goblin]

Oh, good! I was fearing STALKER 2 would never be released. A sad world this would be, for sure.

You know, as much as I love STALKER, I'm really not sure I need more of it. What made STALKER special was the weirdness and alienness of the whole thing, but after three games it's kind of lost that for me.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I screamed like a little girl.

I swore very very loudly.

[Cristo Meyers]

I screamed like a little girl.

I'm told that's a pretty common reaction :smallwink:

I had a similar one when a Bloodsucker finally got the drop on me (the first one I encountered must've studied stealth at the same place Imperial Stormtroopers study accuracy...)

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

The first Bloodsucker freaked me out, because it was underground and dark and invisible, bad combination. The second and third one's I fought were above-ground, and in daylight. Easy peasy, took them down at long range, they never even reached me, and their cloaking didn't help, because I could see the shimmer.

[GungHo]

The first Bloodsucker freaked me out, because it was underground and dark and invisible, bad combination.
That's also what got me about the Controller. All I knew was that something was hitting me. I didn't know what it was until the camera started moving around, went blurry, and started zooming in on some Clint Howard-esque mutant doing a routine from Scanners.

[Weezer]

That's also what got me about the Controller. All I knew was that something was hitting me. I didn't know what it was until the camera started moving around, went blurry, and started zooming in on some Clint Howard-esque mutant doing a routine from Scanners.

I actually thought the first few times it was some sort of "you shouldn't go here" cutscene. It kind of had that feel to it a bit.