best Ranged touch spells at low level?

[Phaederkiel]

for my (sniper-shot-enhanced) Sneak-attacking factotum, i search for some spells to deliver my sneaks with.

Character in question is 8 lvl Factotum, 3 lvl Rogue, can thereby cast lvl3 spells, at caster lvl 8 (if i am right).


at Spelllvl 2 i have seeking ray and Melfs acid arrow. One for hitting from Far Far away, one for hitting through cover.

is there some really good lvl 3 or 4 spell you tell me? I can add about 14d6 dmg sneak.


the best would be something like Kaupaer´s quickblast as a touch attack.
meaning: automatically quickened, even if the damage is nonexistant.

or something that leeches life. these d6 can serve a double purpose there, which i like.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

At 1st level, there's also the Lesser Orb of X spells that are ranged touch. They also ignore spell resistance. The Orb of X spell series comes online at spell level 4.

[Belril Duskwalk]

Scorching Ray for potential multi-target mayhem? Also, let's face it, you're and adventurer: Fire Good!

[candycorn]

Ray of Enfeeblement is a powerful spell, capable of neutering encounters.

Ray of Dizziness is another good one.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Ray of Enfeeblement is a powerful spell, capable of neutering encounters.

Ray of Dizziness is another good one.

He's looking for stuff he can Sneak Attack with, neither one of those qualifies, although they are good options for rays in general. Ray of Exhaustion is also good.

[candycorn]

He's looking for stuff he can Sneak Attack with, neither one of those qualifies, although they are good options for rays in general. Ray of Exhaustion is also good.

Ray of Exhaustion allows a save. I chose mine because it's just a hit roll, no save.

In the level 4 spells, I'd go with Enervation. It qualifies as a weaponlike spell, would deal negative energy damage from sneak attack, and could bestow some negative levels, which are nice.

I'd avoid scorching ray, as only one ray gets sneak attack.

[Darrin]

Darkbolt (Spell Compendium, Darkness 5) gives you several rays (1 per 2 CLs) that you can fire all at once or once per round as a free action. Pair this up with cloud of knives (not a ranged touch attack, but still awesome) for two free-action ranged attacks per round.

Scourge of Force (Champions of Ruin, Sor/Wiz 2) might be worth a look. It's a melee touch attack, but you get multiple tendrils (up to four) that can attack any target within close range, so long as they are within 30' of each other. Somewhat better than scorching ray, as you get 1 tendril + 1 per 3 CLs, four tendrils max, and they do force damage (1d8 +1 damage/2 CLs, up to 1d8+5 max). You may still have to argue with the DM over whether precision damage applies to all attacks (the Rules Compendium isn't entirely clear on this).

Ice Darts (Frostburn, Brd/Sor/Wiz 2) is another good spell for multiple ranged touch attacks, up to five at CL 11. Same problem with precision damage, though.

Alicorn Lance (Silver Marches web enhancement, Clr/Dru 2) is a standard action to cast, but once cast, you can launch the unicorn horn on your forehead as a ranged touch attack with a free action. Presumably you could cast it beforehand, but duration is 1 round/CL, so probably not all that useful unless you can persist it or get creative with the action economy.

Threesteel (Dragons of Faerun, Sor/Wiz 3) creates three identical weapons that attack any target within close range with a ranged attack roll (not a touch attack), but explicitly get any effects as if you had hit with a melee attack (including sneak attack). So that might be another way around the precision damage thing.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Ice Knife (Assassin 2) is nice one, it deals 2d8 cold damage + 2 dexterity damage on a failed fort save and you get a +2 bonus on the attack roll for every 2 CL and if you misses it explodes in a 10 ft. radius dealing 1d8 (ref half) and strangely for an instantaneous conjuration [creation] it allows SR :smallconfused:

[Diarmuid]

He's looking for stuff he can Sneak Attack with, neither one of those qualifies, although they are good options for rays in general. Ray of Exhaustion is also good.

I was under the impression that something like Ray of Enfeeblement was capable of SA'ing with and that the resulting SA dmg would be Negative Energy.

[candycorn]

I was under the impression that something like Ray of Enfeeblement was capable of SA'ing with and that the resulting SA dmg would be Negative Energy.

For it to qualify as a weaponlike spell, it must deal damage, ability damage, or energy drain. It must qualify as a weaponlike spell to deal precision damage. Complete Arcane goes over this, and explicitly states Ray of Enfeeblement won't work, as it's a penalty, not damage.

Rules compendium is also quite clear on precision damage. If you make multiple attacks as a single action, and that action is not a full round action, then you only get precision damage once. If, however, you get multiple attacks through multiple actions, and each action only gives one attack, then you get precision damage normally (Cloud of knives, etc).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Ray of Exhaustion allows a save. I chose mine because it's just a hit roll, no save.

In the level 4 spells, I'd go with Enervation. It qualifies as a weaponlike spell, would deal negative energy damage from sneak attack, and could bestow some negative levels, which are nice.

I'd avoid scorching ray, as only one ray gets sneak attack.

Even if you make the save, you're still Fatigued, so it's Save or Screwed, and even if you save, you're still nerfed. Particularly if it's a charge build.

I wonder if there's a way to get Improved Multiattack to work with volley-type spells like Scorching Ray, since it lets them do so with Multiattack. Or, failing that, if there's A Feat For That (tm)...

[candycorn]

Even if you make the save, you're still Fatigued, so it's Save or Screwed, and even if you save, you're still nerfed. Particularly if it's a charge build.

Ray of Dizziness accomplishes the same thing, without a save. I generally avoid spells that have 2 different fail points, between attacks and saves. For example, Phantasmal Killer.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Ray of Dizziness accomplishes the same thing, without a save. I generally avoid spells that have 2 different fail points, between attacks and saves. For example, Phantasmal Killer.

Ray of Exhaustion is Core, which is occasionally an issue. It's also different from most spells that have both 2 fail points because the second 'fail' point isn't actually fail. Fatigue is an annoying status effect all by itself.

I will agree with you about Phantasmal Killer, simply because it not only gives you two saves to negate the effect, of different kinds just to make sure that there's a good chance at least ONE of them is a high save for the target, it's also both Mind Affecting *AND* a Death Effect, which means immunities are... frequent.

[candycorn]

Ray of Exhaustion is Core, which is occasionally an issue. It's also different from most spells that have both 2 fail points because the second 'fail' point isn't actually fail. Fatigue is an annoying status effect all by itself.
Annoying, yes. Seriously hindering, not so much. Frankly, in most cases, I'd prefer to hit it with a Ray of Enfeeblement.

At CL 8, ray of enfeeblement will be doing 1d6+4 strength, or average 7.5. That's a -3 to -4 to attack and damage, reductions in carrying ability, and more.

If something's going to run or charge, or if the Strength penalty is important, then chances are, it's got a strong Fort save. Which means that ray of exhaustion is usually ray of fatigue.

It's interesting, but Fatiguing one target? It's not worth a 3rd level slot. You'd be better off using it for Haste, getting in a flanking position, and unloading with the extra attack. The added advantage is that your entire party benefits from Haste.

Not to mention, since this character has levels in Factotum, a core-only restriction is irrelevant. Ray of Dizziness is strictly better, in that it imposes a harsher penalty which also prevents charging, and even partial charging (as characters restricted to half speed cannot run or charge), allows no save, and also prevents full attacks.

[Darrin]

Rules compendium is also quite clear on precision damage. If you make multiple attacks as a single action, and that action is not a full round action, then you only get precision damage once. If, however, you get multiple attacks through multiple actions, and each action only gives one attack, then you get precision damage normally (Cloud of knives, etc).

The Rules Compendium has confusing rules. On page 42:

"A form of attack that enables an attacker to make multiple attacks during an action other than a full-round action, such as the Manyshot feat (standard
action) or a quickened scorching ray (swift action), allows precision damage to be applied only to the first attack in the group."

Later, on page 136, when discussing Weaponlike Spells and Multiple Hits, the type of action becomes irrelevent:

"Some weaponlike spells can strike multiple times in the same round. When the caster receives a bonus on damage rolls or some form of extra damage (such as precision damage) with such spells, the extra damage applies only on the first attack, whether that attack hits or not."

It looks like a conversion hiccup. In 3.0, the D&D FAQ introduced the concept of "volley attacks" for shuriken and the orb spells from Tome & Blood. The designers felt that any time you make multiple attacks with a "single attack action", then it's a volley attack and precision damage only applies to the first attack. In 3.5, the rules for shuriken were changed, and certain key spells (notably scorching ray) became part of the core rules. However, the term "volley attack" fell out of favor and a formal definition wasn't included in the rules (the word "volley" never even appears in the 3.5 PHB or Rules Compendium). Some of the mechanics for Manyshot, rays, and orb spells also changed in 3.5, and the shear volume of different methods of making an attack also increased quite a bit.

The designers apparently tried to clarify how "weaponlike spells" worked in Complete Arcane, since these were essentially copied verbatim into the Rules Compendium on page 136. However, when they were clarifying Precision Damage on page 42, it looks like they were trying to keep the concept from the 3.0 FAQ, but worded it very badly, and forgot to update the relevant section in "weaponlike spells". The new rule seems to be, "if it's not a full round action, you only get precision damage once". This gives a leg up to Sorcerers in the blasting department, since anytime they add metamagic to a spell it increases the casting time to a full-round action.

However, I think it's still confusing. A much easier rule of thumb: one attack roll = apply precision damage once. Multiple attack rolls = apply precision damage on each attack.

[Phaederkiel]

scourge of force has me intrigued. But i am not sure if i have understood it.


is any of the worthwile spells you mentioned long range, by any chance?
can be dealing pure damage, as long as its high, since i want to use it in an assasination szenario. Con damage would be top, since i try to get to an massive damage throw and i want the guy in question to fail it...

[Dusk Eclipse]

Poison needles (Wu Jen 4 in CArc) is pretty nice if you don't care for the low damage, only 1d4 per CL maximum 5d4; but when you cast it you have the option to decided between three poison effects:

1d8 constitution
2d6 minutes of paralysis
1d10 dexterity damage

All of them have a fort save to avoid them; but the stat damaging options behave as normal poisons in the sense that they need to repeat a fort save 1 minute later to avoid another set of damage.

[Phaederkiel]

both the constitution and the paralysis sound delicious, but i suppose i will be hard pressed to cast a wujen spell as a factotum.

Even getting an Wand of such a spell from an npc should be difficult. hmm.
perhaps i can get one.

at the moment, i can cast only lvl 3 sorc and wizard spells.

[candycorn]

The Rules Compendium has confusing rules. On page 42:

"A form of attack that enables an attacker to make multiple attacks during an action other than a full-round action, such as the Manyshot feat (standard
action) or a quickened scorching ray (swift action), allows precision damage to be applied only to the first attack in the group."

Later, on page 136, when discussing Weaponlike Spells and Multiple Hits, the type of action becomes irrelevent:

"Some weaponlike spells can strike multiple times in the same round. When the caster receives a bonus on damage rolls or some form of extra damage (such as precision damage) with such spells, the extra damage applies only on the first attack, whether that attack hits or not."

It looks like a conversion hiccup. In 3.0, the D&D FAQ introduced the concept of "volley attacks" for shuriken and the orb spells from Tome & Blood. The designers felt that any time you make multiple attacks with a "single attack action", then it's a volley attack and precision damage only applies to the first attack. In 3.5, the rules for shuriken were changed, and certain key spells (notably scorching ray) became part of the core rules. However, the term "volley attack" fell out of favor and a formal definition wasn't included in the rules (the word "volley" never even appears in the 3.5 PHB or Rules Compendium). Some of the mechanics for Manyshot, rays, and orb spells also changed in 3.5, and the shear volume of different methods of making an attack also increased quite a bit.

The designers apparently tried to clarify how "weaponlike spells" worked in Complete Arcane, since these were essentially copied verbatim into the Rules Compendium on page 136. However, when they were clarifying Precision Damage on page 42, it looks like they were trying to keep the concept from the 3.0 FAQ, but worded it very badly, and forgot to update the relevant section in "weaponlike spells". The new rule seems to be, "if it's not a full round action, you only get precision damage once". This gives a leg up to Sorcerers in the blasting department, since anytime they add metamagic to a spell it increases the casting time to a full-round action.

However, I think it's still confusing. A much easier rule of thumb: one attack roll = apply precision damage once. Multiple attack rolls = apply precision damage on each attack.
Not at all. All restrictions apply. Thus:
Any multi attack action that is not a full round action gets precision damage once
AND
If you use a weaponlike spell that gets multiple attacks in a single round, only the first does precision damage.

[Darrin]

Not at all. All restrictions apply. Thus:
Any multi attack action that is not a full round action gets precision damage once
AND
If you use a weaponlike spell that gets multiple attacks in a single round, only the first does precision damage.

So a spellcaster casting a spell even as a full-round action never gets precision damage more than once, ever? Bollocks.

I find deliberately mentioning a quickened scorching ray on page 42 very, very puzzling, however... by the same rule, a non-quickened scorching ray only gets precision damage once, so why qualify it with quickened?

I suppose there's a way around it:

standard action: threesteel
swift action: quickened ray of frost
free action: darkbolt (cast previously)
free action: cloud of knives (cast previously)

That would give you 6 attacks with precision damage. Now add Twin Spell and Repeat Spell to threesteel... mmm, tasty.


scourge of force has me intrigued. But i am not sure if i have understood it.


If you want multiple sneak attacks, threesteel is probably the better choice. You're limited to three attacks, but they all get precision damage (specific spell description trumps the general Rules Compendium).



is any of the worthwile spells you mentioned long range, by any chance?
can be dealing pure damage, as long as its high, since i want to use it in an assasination szenario. Con damage would be top, since i try to get to an massive damage throw and i want the guy in question to fail it...

No, they're all close range except for darkbolt, which is medium.

Hmmm... I'm not aware of any rays or ranged touch attacks that do Con damage. All of the Con damage spells I can find are melee touch attacks, and they're all Fort negates.

You might be able to do something with Atramen Oil (Planar Handbook), a splash weapon that incurs a -4 penalty to Fort saves on a direct hit. Threesteel + Atramen Oil + some energy damage (quickspark or least cystal of energy assault) might be the way to go. Adding Fell Drain to something like targeting ray could also work.

[Yuki Akuma]

A Reach Spell'd Shivering Touch might be nice.

>.>

Can Factotums apply metamagic?