(Un)Holy Warrior

[AspectOfNihil]

Hey all.

I'm about to start playing in a new campaign, focus on roleplay and character development over optimisation, 24 pb, race preferably Human (for roleplay reasons, though most other core races would be ok, except elves, don't ask) and the only restriction on books is no magazine sources or setting based sources.

My question is, how do I make a decent Unholy warrior crunch wise. (S)He worships a deity who believes in strength through suffering, and that only the strong have the right to rule (NE Greater Goddess).

I'm not particularly fussy on whether the build focuses on the divinity aspect or the warrior aspect, and any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[DoctorGlock]

Cleric 4/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight 10/Prestige Paladin of Tyranny 1/Whatever full caster 4

BAB 18
CL 17

[*.*.*.*]

Hey all.

I'm about to start playing in a new campaign, focus on roleplay and character development over optimisation, 24 pb, race preferably Human (for roleplay reasons, though most other core races would be ok, except elves, don't ask) and the only restriction on books is no magazine sources or setting based sources.

My question is, how do I make a decent Unholy warrior crunch wise. (S)He worships a deity who believes in strength through suffering, and that only the strong have the right to rule (NE Greater Goddess).

I'm not particularly fussy on whether the build focuses on the divinity aspect or the warrior aspect, and any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
24 pb? Ouch. Try rolling with a standard DMM cleric

[NineThePuma]

Cleric 20 works fairly well. Others are more optimized than I, but the good spells are there and aren't limited to a single god.

[AspectOfNihil]

I'm liking DoctorGlock's idea, the RKV is pretty much the perfect Prestige Class for what I'm looking for, though combining it with 9th level spells, it'd probably outshine the other PCs, something I'm trying to avoid.

Maybe Cleric 4/Crusader 1/RKV 10/Pious Templar 5?
19 BAB, but with lower spellcasting, so my much-needed level based stat boosts can focus on one stat.

Mettle may come in handy, along with the good saves.

My first thought was Warpriest, but that is a good idea poorly executed really.

Paladin is a bit MAD for 24pb, so I'll probably be avoiding that.

The straight cleric definitely has some perks, and isn't so powerful as to outshine the rest of the party (which so far consists of a human Rogue and a Human Fighter (Two-handed).

If somebody can find a way to put a few levels of Blackguard in the build, that could definitely help cement the character as the archetypical evil divine warrior.

Thanks for the input so far, much appreciated.

[DoctorGlock]

I'm liking DoctorGlock's idea, the RKV is pretty much the perfect Prestige Class for what I'm looking for, though combining it with 9th level spells, it'd probably outshine the other PCs, something I'm trying to avoid.

Maybe Cleric 4/Crusader 1/RKV 10/Pious Templar 5?
19 BAB, but with lower spellcasting, so my much-needed level based stat boosts can focus on one stat.

Mettle may come in handy, along with the good saves.

My first thought was Warpriest, but that is a good idea poorly executed really.

Paladin is a bit MAD for 24pb, so I'll probably be avoiding that.

The straight cleric definitely has some perks, and isn't so powerful as to outshine the rest of the party (which so far consists of a human Rogue and a Human Fighter (Two-handed).

If somebody can find a way to put a few levels of Blackguard in the build, that could definitely help cement the character as the archetypical evil divine warrior.

Thanks for the input so far, much appreciated.

If you want to lose the big 9's, consider taking all 5 levels of ordained champion along with the ruby knight build.

Cleric 4/Crusader 1/RKV 10/Ordained Champ 5

19 BAB
15 CL (yuck, but enough for AMF)
Spontaneous war domain
Swift War Domain
Smiting feats
Die Hard (Delay Death fun)

[AspectOfNihil]

Ordained Champion could work, yeah, 4 different classes all specifically designed around being a warrior dedicated to a cause. So Cleric 4/Crusader 1/RKV 10/OC 5/PT 5

My reflex save will be on the ass end of horrible, but my fort and will should be respectable, enough casting to maintain flavour, enough combat tricks to make it interesting, but not so much of either as to make it OP.

I feel like that last level of Pious Templar is just being wasted though, and in hindsight, blackguard takes a bit too much work for too little a gain, don't want to be overpowered, but versatility is never over-rated.

If somebody can find a prestige class that opens a few more options for a multi-role cleric in a three-man party, that would go a long way.

[DoctorGlock]

Ordained Champion could work, yeah, 4 different classes all specifically designed around being a warrior dedicated to a cause. So Cleric 4/Crusader 1/RKV 10/OC 5/PT 5

My reflex save will be on the ass end of horrible, but my fort and will should be respectable, enough casting to maintain flavour, enough combat tricks to make it interesting, but not so much of either as to make it OP.

I feel like that last level of Pious Templar is just being wasted though, and in hindsight, blackguard takes a bit too much work for too little a gain, don't want to be overpowered, but versatility is never over-rated.

If somebody can find a prestige class that opens a few more options for a multi-role cleric in a three-man party, that would go a long way.

You got 25 levels there, this going epic? If yes, you may want to revise your thoughts on casting. Though I suppose it does matter how optimized your group is.

Don't worry about the reflex, reflex is the most useless save in 3.5 considering that direct damage mostly sucks (freezing ray and wings of flurry will absolutely murder you though). Damage is inconsequential once you get delay death running along with die hard anyway.

[Runestar]

Google "Unholy warrior's handbook". :smallbiggrin:

[AspectOfNihil]

DM said it was going Epic yeah, only just remembered writing that reply (though I should have mentioned it). He said the campaign would 'stretch pretty far into epic'. So I'm picking about 25-27 levels.

Yeah, Epic Spellcasting would be more than nice, it's pretty much the only thing worth doing once you reach epic, near as I can tell, but I figure once I reach level 16, I will have a fair clue about whether casting is necessary for survival. If so, I can pick up 4 levels of full casting pre-epic and get the win that is Epic Spellcasting.

If not though, going for the extra flavour of Unholy Warrior would suit the character just as well, without the extra hassle.

As such, any levels from 16-25 inclusive are purely theoretical at this point, i'm pretty set on the Cleric 4/Crusader 1/RKV 10 build for the first 15 levels though.

Since most of the gods in the campaign world are dragons who have 'Ascended' if they are deemed worthy at their death, I may be able to convince the DM to let me take a level of Dracolyte before I go into Ordained Champion, it gives the extra flavour and the domain ability can be swapped for a feat, always something good for the feat-starved cleric.

Perhaps a Cleric 4/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10/(Dracolyte X)/(Ordained Champion 5)/(Pious Templar X)

Depending on how the campaign goes, I could either go for 5 levels of Dracolyte for the casting, or just go for the one then straight into Ordained Champion, taking the first level of Pious Templar between OC levels somewhere, then continue on into Epic.

EDIT: Unholy Warrior's Handbook. I can just imagine a group of PC's killing some BBEG and finding that on his corpse.

DM: You find a leatherbound book on his corpse, blood stains long set into the crumbling cover, profane runes etched on every page and the cover set with a large obsidian title in some strange language

Player: I cast Comprehend Languages

DM: The Unholy Warrior's Handbook: 10 easy steps to apocalyptic Genocide.

Yeah, I'm using that sometime :smallbiggrin:

Other alternatives include:
So you've taken a level of Blackguard?
How to cope with the death of a loved one (5 places you would never have thought to hide the corpse!)
And the ever popular DVD
Rock me On-the-dais: A musical guide to making sacrifice fun again

[Myth]

Cleric 4/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight 10/Prestige Paladin of Tyranny 1/Whatever full caster 4

BAB 18
CL 17

Pretty much this but make it Cloistered Cleric and get Knowledge Devotion. You have full BAB due to your buffs anyway, and hit dice don't equal survivability in the long run.

[AspectOfNihil]

While nice power-wise, Cloistered Cleric doesn't really fit well with the Unholy Warrior thematically.

Knowledge Devotion was something I had completely forgotten about though, thanks for the heads-up, could be used more as a combat experience thing rather than a study thing and would mesh quite well.

[DoctorGlock]

Pretty much this but make it Cloistered Cleric and get Knowledge Devotion. You have full BAB due to your buffs anyway, and hit dice don't equal survivability in the long run.

While true, it's best to reduce buff dependency, otherwise you are a single disjunction from complete disaster.

[The Underlord]

No ones suggested Ur-priest? Blasphemey :smallbiggrin:!
Crusader/Ur-priest/RNV would be pretty powerful since you just need 2 levels of Ur-priest and all levels in RNV to get level 9 spells.

Also Ur-priest is as close to 'unholy' a divine ccaster can get.

[DoctorGlock]

No ones suggested Ur-priest? Blasphemey :smallbiggrin:!
Crusader/Ur-priest/RNV would be pretty powerful since you just need 2 levels of Ur-priest and all levels in RNV to get level 9 spells.

Also Ur-priest is as close to 'unholy' a divine ccaster can get.

He has a divine patron

[The Underlord]

I'll go hide in a corner then :smalltongue:

IIRC, don't you have to worship Wee Jas to enter RNV?(remeber something about her fluff-wise, but don't remeber if it is in the pre-requisets or not)

[DoctorGlock]

I'll go hide in a corner then :smalltongue:

IIRC, don't you have to worship Wee Jas to enter RNV?(remeber something about her fluff-wise, but don't remeber if it is in the pre-requisets or not)

Usually, but I prefer to assume homebrew settings with mutable flavor. I suppose that might work for the UP as well, but the class has strong flavor for leeching divine spells and most mechanics mention that in it's description.

[AspectOfNihil]

Yeah, Ur-Priest would be nice, but the fluff is a bit too embedded in the class to get away with.

IIRC there is an order in-game dedicated to deicide, believing mortals should make their own destinies. That may work for it, but they're more a Wizardy group than anything else, so a Warrior-minded Cleric may find it a bit hard to gain acceptance.

Yeah, the Vindicator has very little fluff around Wee-Jas, changing the Patron Deity pretty much makes it useful for any god. The fact the goddess I worship is a Red Dragon helps, I don't even have to do anything fancy to the name.

Cheers DoctorGlock, for the first 15 levels for my build, and thanks Myth for the reminder about Knowledge Devotion. That should have me set for a fair while now.

Thanks everybody for the help, cya round the forum.

Aspect out.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I'll go hide in a corner then :smalltongue:

IIRC, don't you have to worship Wee Jas to enter RNV?(remeber something about her fluff-wise, but don't remeber if it is in the pre-requisets or not)

Either way LE is a perfectly fine alignment for a cleric of Wee Jass as he is LN.

[Myth]

Wee Jass is a she :smallcool: