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Knaight
2011-12-27, 10:50 PM
The idea of word clouds as a tool for analysis of games came up in one of the 5e threads. As such, I'm starting this thread as a collection for them, with commentary being relevant once similar games are posted or similar clouds emerge. So:
Qin: The Warring States
http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo316/Knaighte/Game%20Word%20Clouds/QinWordCloud.jpg

Fudge
http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo316/Knaighte/Game%20Word%20Clouds/FudgeWordCloud.jpg

Warrior, Rogue, and Mage
http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo316/Knaighte/Game%20Word%20Clouds/WRMWordCloud.jpg

Fate 2
http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo316/Knaighte/Game%20Word%20Clouds/Fate2WordCloud.jpg

Spirit of the Century
http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo316/Knaighte/Game%20Word%20Clouds/SpiritoftheCenturyWordCloud.jpg

All of these were produced with Wordle (http://www.wordle.net/create). Please add more.

Tyndmyr
2011-12-28, 08:55 AM
As someone who has literally never so much as seen Fudge, I presume from this word listing that it uses a FATE-like list of attributes for difficulty levels?

I want to do PF, but I don't see an easy way to compile everything from the SRD into a single doc for wordle.

Knaight
2011-12-28, 09:08 AM
As someone who has literally never so much as seen Fudge, I presume from this word listing that it uses a FATE-like list of attributes for difficulty levels?

I want to do PF, but I don't see an easy way to compile everything from the SRD into a single doc for wordle.

FATE is basically a Fudge homebrew, and the FATE trait ladder is the Fudge list, with a few additions. I'm going to see about adding some of the FATE stuff to the list, and the comparison should be obvious. On other points, are you able to put up any John Wick? I'd like to see how L5R, Seven Seas, and Houses of the Blooded compare.

Fudge-FATE 2 Analysis:
http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo316/Knaighte/Game%20Word%20Clouds/FudgeWordCloud.jpg
http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo316/Knaighte/Game%20Word%20Clouds/Fate2WordCloud.jpg
So, there are some interesting things here. Skill and skills, both game terms are more or less constant between the two. However, those utterly dominate in Fudge, with Attribute being a fairly minor word, in FATE the Aspect is just as big. The core mechanics have clearly changed in that regard.

Moreover, in Fudge GM is a very large term, with Character being smaller, in FATE they are pretty even, with GM shrinking noticeably. That seems to show a move towards narrativism and increased player role. I'd need to run Burning Wheel through to get a decent confirmation of this concept*, but it seems reasonable for the time being. FATE also has a medium sized "Player", Fudge doesn't have anything of the sort, and that is yet more evidence.

Then there is SoTC, which is FATE 3. It seems to suggest the continuation of some of these trends - "Character" is a big word, "GM" a small to medium one, with "player" only a bit smaller. "Page" and "XX" can be mostly discarded, as they are from Page XX in the SRD, and really only show that the game is crunchier and needs to reference itself frequently. Other trends are reversed - Skill is again bigger than Aspect, which is comparable to the new Stunt.

I really don't have a lot of conclusions here, but this does support the common wisdom fairly heavily. The only big exception is the gigantic Skill in SotC, which seems like a reintroduction of the traditional. However, now that that's been shown by the word cloud, I can see it elsewhere.

*Guess what doesn't come in an electronic form.

Psyren
2011-12-28, 09:36 AM
Maybe we can split the Paizo PRD up, and throw it into a Google Doc?

Tyndmyr
2011-12-28, 09:46 AM
FATE is basically a Fudge homebrew, and the FATE trait ladder is the Fudge list, with a few additions. I'm going to see about adding some of the FATE stuff to the list, and the comparison should be obvious. On other points, are you able to put up any John Wick? I'd like to see how L5R, Seven Seas, and Houses of the Blooded compare.

I do have all of 7th Sea. I may even have PDF copies of all of it. I should be able to do core/rules compendium at any rate, though. I'm afraid that I have L5R in dead tree format only, though. Ditto Dresden Files, CoC, etc, etc. I'm mostly a non-PDF person.

I'd be down for splitting up Pazio.

Totally Guy
2011-12-28, 09:53 AM
Seems like quite a good idea. Lets try it out!

FreeMarket
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/macdonnell/FreemarketWordCloud.jpg

Inspectres
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/macdonnell/InspectresWordCloud.jpg

Apocalypse World (I removed some swears)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/macdonnell/ApocalypseWorldWordCloud-1.jpg

Knaight
2011-12-28, 10:00 AM
I should have brought this up earlier, but setting all words to horizontal is ideal. The setting is under layout. As for those particular examples: Am I correct in assuming that Apocalypse World has a very limited GM and is very player centric, Inspectres is narrativist but has a more active GM, and Freemarket doesn't have the GM-player roles at all and ignores characters on top of that? If so, the comparisons between GM and Character (I assume that MC is a GM variant) hold.

Totally Guy
2011-12-28, 10:33 AM
In Apocalypse World the Master of Ceremonies (GM) has a limited set of moves to use at when players fail rolls or whenever else the fiction allows. So yes it's that roll is more limited than some other games.

In Inspectres the players say what happens when a roll is succeeded. The GM pretty much just frames scenes, doles out complications for failed rolls and gets players to make stress rolls when things get scary.

FreeMarket is a sci-fi game written entirely in in-setting terms to it's intentionally alien in the written language. It's fairly traditional as an RPG but the behaviour that gets rewarded is upside down. Giving things away is encouraged. Using violence makes you jump through hoops to get away with it. The word MRCZ could be read as the "party". User means player.

Knaight
2011-12-28, 10:40 AM
FreeMarket is a sci-fi game written entirely in in-setting terms to it's intentionally alien in the written language. It's fairly traditional as an RPG but the behaviour that gets rewarded is upside down. Giving things away is encouraged. Using violence makes you jump through hoops to get away with it. The word MRCZ could be read as the "party". User means player.

If Superuser means GM, the hypothesis partially breaks, and Fudge becomes an outlier. Which means that it's large GM is due to something else - The new hypothesis being that generic systems which need to be tweaked heavily by a GM favor high repetition of the term (this can be checked with GURPS, Hero, and a few other systems). That said, what these games also seem to suggest is that the player - character size ratios have at least a loose correlation to how traditional the game is, with larger "player" text in less traditional games.

Totally Guy
2011-12-28, 11:17 AM
A couple more.


Burning Wheel (1st 70 pages only. That's the core of the system. But as we know there's loads more...)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/macdonnell/BWWordCloud.jpg

In a Wicked Age
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/macdonnell/InAWickedAgeWordMap.jpg

I tried nWoD and Burning Empires but I crashed Wordle. I also tried Cat by John Wick but the PDF thinks that each individual letter is a new word rather than words being words.

Edit: Yes Superuser is FreeMarket's GM. Can't really help with any generic systems as I've not gone out and bought any really.

Edit again: Found a 3.5 SRD one (http://www.wordle.net/show/wrdl/183970/D%26D_3.5_SRD).

Xefas
2012-01-01, 08:47 AM
Lady Blackbird
http://i.imgur.com/Btr16.png
It may be a bit skewed, considering that the main mechanics are reprinted eleven times in the pdf - one for each character sheet (five characters, two kinds of sheets, plus one extra).

Fortuna
2012-01-01, 09:03 AM
I'm in the process of compiling a master Exalted word-cloud. I am missing two books, so it won't quite be complete, but it will be pretty close. If it doesn't work, I'll just do a core word-cloud.

Knaight
2012-01-03, 08:01 AM
Lady Blackbird
http://i.imgur.com/Btr16.png
It may be a bit skewed, considering that the main mechanics are reprinted eleven times in the pdf - one for each character sheet (five characters, two kinds of sheets, plus one extra).
It's still interesting. Plus, it is a data point that could be useful for comparing short and long games - notice the conspicuous lack of words like "section" or "chapter" or "page XX" anywhere.

Talakeal
2012-01-03, 06:14 PM
Let me give my game a try!:

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/4973/wordcloud.png

Odd that level appears when it isn't a level based game, and so many English words not enough game terms, maybe I need to inject some more variety into my prose.

And of course the mythical page x makes a larger impace than any pages that actually exist...

So, what does this say about the game?

Kurald Galain
2012-01-03, 06:44 PM
I would love to see a cloud for Paranoia!

Totally Guy
2012-01-03, 07:45 PM
So, what does this say about the game?

Lets see if I can put up a sentence to summarise the games using their own words. This is kind of iffy as some words can carry a different meaning in the context of the actual text. I'm purely guessing the ones that weren't mine.

Qin: This game is about testing characters using their Chi.
Fudge: This games is about characters using skills to get results that they want.
Warrior, Rogue and Mage: This game is about the Warrior, the Rogue and the Mage causing damage, defending themselves and casting spells.
Fate 2: This game is about characters with many aspects using skills.
Apocalypse World: This game is about players choosing moves for their characters to get things done.
Inspectres: This game is about rolling skill dice so the Inspectres can improve their franchise.
Freemarket: This game is about MRCZs facing challenges from the superuser using technology interfaces.
In A Wicked Age: This game is about characters rolling dice for their best interests.
(Core of) Burning Wheel: This game is about players rolling dice to face tests of character.
D&D 3.5 SRD: This game is about using spells and making attacks to damage creatures.
Talakeal's game: This game is about characters overcoming great difficulties mostly using spells.

I didn't do Lady Blackbird as I remember the words key and secret being used in an unusual way. There weren't literal keys and secrets, that's for sure.

Chilingsworth
2012-01-03, 07:50 PM
Ok, how do you make these clouds? And could I see one for DnD 3.5 (since that's the only game I'm familiar with) to help me with the concept?

AlterForm
2012-01-03, 08:58 PM
Legend
http://dl.dropbox.com/s/9ppyzxagq2px52z/Legend.png

Exalted 2e
http://dl.dropbox.com/s/ql0fdp17du7hbpw/Exalted2e.png

Mutants and Masterminds 2e
http://dl.dropbox.com/s/gxqk89tk6fpuxmd/MnM2e.png

Mutants and Masterminds 3e
http://dl.dropbox.com/s/p3bzrbaorr8qcm0/MnM3e.png

DnD 4e PHB
http://dl.dropbox.com/s/j0ufccsa85yynoy/DnD4e.png

DnD 4e DMG
http://dl.dropbox.com/s/g1u4507rawqo8f0/4eDMG.png

Not sure how 4e got "Attack" listed twice ...

Eldest
2012-01-03, 09:11 PM
Interesting that Legend has so many big technical terms (action, level, circle, damage, abillity, etc.).

OracleofWuffing
2012-01-03, 09:24 PM
Ok, how do you make these clouds? And could I see one for DnD 3.5 (since that's the only game I'm familiar with) to help me with the concept?
Generally, you just have a PDF or something of the game book, and copy and paste all that text into the Wordle link that was provided earlier. I know The Alexandrian (http://www.thealexandrian.net/archive/archive2009-02d.html) did something about this sort of thing for a couple of D&D versions, but we're less doing it for examination and more doing it for fun.

I was going to do one for that "Five letter book that has random generation of a certain bodily orifice," but it appears I sadly mercifully cannot copy and paste from that file.

All are third-party D&D 3.5 material:

Portable Hole Full of Beer
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5712/screenshot20120103at829.png

Bride of Portable Hole
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/788/screenshot20120103at827.png

Dragonmech Campaign Setting
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7789/screenshot20120103at833.png


Not sure how 4e got "Attack" listed twice ...
Judging by my results, it's an issue of case-sensitivity. That is, "attack" versus "Attack."

EDIT:

Pathfinder Playtest Beta PDF that I had on hand (I think I shopped out all of the references to my name and e-mail address that got slapped on it when I free-purchased it)
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/7799/screenshot20120103at846.png

Xefas
2012-01-03, 10:09 PM
I didn't do Lady Blackbird as I remember the words key and secret being used in an unusual way. There weren't literal keys and secrets, that's for sure.

Keys in Lady Blackbird/Shadow of Yesterday/The Solar System are a bit like vague BITs. When you behave in accordance with your Keys, you get XP. When this behavior gets you in trouble, you get more XP. When you defy your Keys in a dramatic fashion, you can sell them off for a big fat wad of XP.

Secrets are just a special power (generally a once-per-session trick or boost).

Knaight
2012-01-04, 08:07 AM
I didn't do Lady Blackbird as I remember the words key and secret being used in an unusual way. There weren't literal keys and secrets, that's for sure.
The key is from The Shadow of Yesterday, and is the experience mechanic. Basically, one has a key of the X, and acting towards or overcoming it gives experience, with three different levels depending on how drastic the action is.

On a side note, it's interesting to see how incredibly heavily all editions of D&D shown so far feature cash. GP tends to be one of the larger words in the word cloud.

Skelengar
2012-01-04, 11:41 AM
I would love to see a cloud for Paranoia!

The Computer has granted your request.


The Paranoia clouds aren't showing up.

The word clouds are here. If your vision indicates, or has indicated otherwise, you are experiencing hallucinations and should report to the Computer for medication. Edit timestamps are also the product of hallucinations.

PARANOIA: Troubleshooters
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/16/troubleshooters.png

PARANOIA: IntSec
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/381/intsec.png

PARANOIA: High Programmers
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/9419/highprogrammers.png

Knaight
2012-01-10, 04:53 AM
The Paranoia clouds aren't showing up.

Earthwalker
2012-01-10, 05:08 AM
The Paranoia clouds aren't showing up.

If you can't see the word clouds for paranoia you clearly do not have the security clearance. In fact you should not be asking about word clouds, you actions will be reported to friend computer. Move along.

Human Paragon 3
2012-01-10, 02:35 PM
Forsooth!
http://www.wordle.net/show/wrdl/4654004/Forsooth!

OK, I couldn't figure out how to get it to post just the pic, but there's the word cloud. It's for my RPG, Forsooth. By the way, I am looking for playtesters, so if you're interested, send me a PM with your email addy.

Mustard
2012-01-10, 05:41 PM
If you can't see the word clouds for paranoia you clearly do not have the security clearance. In fact you should not be asking about word clouds, you actions will be reported to friend computer. Move along.
Commie Mutant Traitors sabotaged the links. I have ULTRAVIOLET clearance and was instructed by our friend, The Computer, to declassify this information down to INFRARED level, for the benefit of all citizens.

On a more serious note, I actually tried to make my own word cloud for Paranoia: Troubleshooters, but extracting words from a PDF is a tedious process: you have to remove recurring page headers (otherwise, "troubleshooters" is the most frequent word, even though "computer" is actually more frequent in actual useful text), and sometimes there are random spaces that break apart words. I'm not sure if this is an easier problem to solve than I am making it, but I was halfway to writing a script to detect and reassemble broken words when I got distracted looking up highly comprehensive word lists. So, for fear of over-engineering a solution, I decided to stop before the project consumed me.

EDIT: This post was not edited. It always contained correct spelling and grammar. The Computer says so.

Knaight
2012-01-10, 07:14 PM
Forsooth!
http://www.wordle.net/show/wrdl/4654004/Forsooth!

OK, I couldn't figure out how to get it to post just the pic, but there's the word cloud. It's for my RPG, Forsooth. By the way, I am looking for playtesters, so if you're interested, send me a PM with your email addy.

I've been using Grab, which is a Mac application that basically comes down to getting a screenshot of part of the screen. Then, I put it on photobucket and post.

Skelengar
2012-01-11, 10:40 PM
Commie Mutant Traitors sabotaged the links. I have ULTRAVIOLET clearance and was instructed by our friend, The Computer, to declassify this information down to INFRARED level, for the benefit of all citizens.

On a more serious note, I actually tried to make my own word cloud for Paranoia: Troubleshooters, but extracting words from a PDF is a tedious process: you have to remove recurring page headers (otherwise, "troubleshooters" is the most frequent word, even though "computer" is actually more frequent in actual useful text), and sometimes there are random spaces that break apart words. I'm not sure if this is an easier problem to solve than I am making it, but I was halfway to writing a script to detect and reassemble broken words when I got distracted looking up highly comprehensive word lists. So, for fear of over-engineering a solution, I decided to stop before the project consumed me.

EDIT: This post was not edited. It always contained correct spelling and grammar. The Computer says so.

Find and replace works just fine, forgot about the page headers though, doesn't look like it made too much of a difference. For some reason when copied, "fi" is always followed by a space. I suspect there is a Skyward Sword reference in here somewhere.

The struck through text is libel implanted by CMTs. The word clouds are perfect.

Edit: Have you ever left the multiquote buttons selected and failed to notice until after the post is made? No? Me neither. Just wondering.

Aidan305
2012-01-11, 11:58 PM
Entertainingly, I just stuck XP in, and the words "just","shoot", and "Players" came up next to each other. In that order reading from left to right. Coincidence? Or CMT sabotage?

Mustard
2012-01-12, 01:24 PM
The word clouds are perfect.
My terminal must have been faulty. Works fine now, but I must scan for traces of commie hacking. Perfect job for underlings. If they don't find how the commies got in, they must have helped. If they do find how the commies got in, I'll have to keep an eye out on them; that level of knowledge is treasonous.


For some reason when copied, "fi" is always followed by a space.
I noticed that pattern, but I think there are other occurrences as well. I've seen this happen with other PDFs, so it might be a layout kludge or something. Well, now that I can see your word clouds, I don't have to feel bad about not finishing yet another project...

(Edit: Why do discussions involving PARANOIA always end up with people talking in character? Even I'm doing that now!)

Aidan305
2012-01-12, 01:32 PM
[SIZE="1"](Edit: Why do discussions involving PARANOIA always end up with people talking in character? Even I'm doing that now!)

Because it's Paranoia. It's memetic.