Irresistable Dance

[kaiguy]

I've been planning an encounter for my party where a dinner table becomes a bunch of animated objects that attacks them. I've wanted to combine this with an Irresistable Dance spell (yes, if you have "Be Our Guest" in your head, you're on the right track.)

But is it just me, or is that spell way too high a level for its effect. A touch attack that gives -4 AC and -10 Reflex for 1d4+1 rounds, and provokes attacks of opportunity - a level eight spell? Really? Compared to Circle of Death, which would likely kill several members of the party, and is a level 6 spell.

I personally think Irresistable Dance as written should be no higher than Bard 3 or 4, or perhaps Wiz/Sor 6 if it was an area effect. But I'm no expert on these things. Is there a justification for this?

[Douglas]

I think you're missing the fact that it prevents the subject from taking actions. That "provoke an AoO on his turn" clause? That is the only thing the subject does on his turn.

Also, it has no save. That's rather important too.

[Varil]

It's pretty awesome. The only downsides are [mind-affecting] and the touch range. But it'll utterly shut down one character who is vulnerable to it. It may as well *be* a death affect, because the average roll is ~3 rounds, which is basically enough time to end an encounter.

It might not be *the* best 8th level spell, but I think it is roughly on par. At least, it's about as good as you're going to get out of a mind-affecting spell at that level.

[Myth]

It's one of the most powerful spells available to a Wizard/Sorc (or Bard). It's a no-save-just-suck spell. It can also be made ranged via Archmage's Arcane Reach or Ocular Spell. It's pretty fun to cast on things like the Tarrasque.

[MukkTB]

Maybe houserule up a weaker spell to do what you want? Find a lower level mind effecting spell and refluff that. Maybe use suggestion or something and tell the players to dance?

[Andreaz]

I think you're missing the fact that it prevents the subject from taking actions.

Bolded for emphasis. "You don't act" is one the nastiest debuff in the game.
"You don't act. And you provoke one AoO per round." Is even nastier.

The blanket immunity to it is easy to get by the level it's available, but anything else pretty much "lost".

[kaiguy]

I'd swear I read the spell description twenty times, and didn't see the "you don't act" - okay, I guess, though I still think it's a little high level. Maybe I'll homebrew a version that does what I thought it does - give a Will save too or something.

Thanks guys.

[Douglas]

It's an understandable oversight given the wording they use - instead of "you don't act", they say "The spell effect makes it impossible for the subject to do anything other than caper and prance in place." It takes a small leap of logic to realize that attacking, casting spells, and pretty much any other normal action, all qualify as things that are not capering and prancing in place and are therefore not allowed.

[Novawurmson]

Command (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/command.htm) Halt: Hammerzeit (http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/military_photos/discussions/275183d1323269484-wartime-christmas-greetings-thread-hammerzeit.jpg). Tweak save DC as needed.

[ericgrau]

It takes a foe out of the fight, which is nearly as good as killing him. Without a save.

Circle of death allows a save and is HD based so it's not very good against monsters. Those with class levels have less HD but they might have death ward, though true it's usually a great spell for the DM.

[Demons_eye]

I'd swear I read the spell description twenty times, and didn't see the "you don't act" - okay, I guess, though I still think it's a little high level. Maybe I'll homebrew a version that does what I thought it does - give a Will save too or something.

Thanks guys.

Hideous Laughter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/hideousLaughter.htm) is something along the lines that you want. They can't act but gives a will save. 2nd level spell.

[dextercorvia]

Would a Snowflake Wardance Bard be able to attack normally? :smallwink:

[Andreaz]

Would a Snowflake Wardance Bard be able to attack normally? :smallwink:

No. It's an irresistible dance, not an irresistible wardance.

[Xiander]

No. It's an irresistible dance, not an irresistible wardance.

Wardance is a kind of dance, wich means wardancing fulfills the imperative to dance. :P

I'll stop being pedantic now. It is pretty clear what the intention is.

[Flickerdart]

It's not Snowflake Warprance, after all.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

It's not Snowflake Warprance, after all.

Flickerdart, I hate you so much. It's lines like this that make me want to go to a Ren fair and just be a spoony bard.:smallbiggrin: Also, that's another character to play, given the chance.:smalltongue:

[Ravens_cry]

Flickerdart, I hate you so much. It's lines like this that make me want to go to a Ren fair and just be a spoony bard.:smallbiggrin: Also, that's another character to play, given the chance.:smalltongue:
I want to go to a Renaissance Fair in a Star Trek Starfleet uniform.:smallamused:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I want to go to a Renaissance Fair in a Star Trek Starfleet uniform.:smallamused:

Why not? The Klingons show up at the ones around here all the time.

Personally, I like being a spoony bard. Shneekey the Lost, pickled piper of ham-handed.

Yanno, there's probably a really funny story about that, too bad I don't remember a bloody thing about that night...

As far as Irresistible Dance... it's a Bard spell mostly. Wizards and Sorcerers just get to use it from time to time. And never underestimate the 'irresistible' part... no save spells are rare. Most of 'em are awesome.

[Ravens_cry]

Why not? The Klingons show up at the ones around here all the time.

Yes, but I would be in a group, or should I say, an away team.:smallbiggrin:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Yes, but I would be in a group, or should I say, an away team.:smallbiggrin:

That would be Klingons... plural. They were a group. And let's not forget the Dorsai Irregulars who keep showing up...

[Infernalbargain]

Yes, but I would be in a group, or should I say, an away team.:smallbiggrin:

Don't forget your communicators so you can rendezvous with the shuttlecraft.

[Myth]

Wizards use it from time to time because they have even more awesome things to cast around the time.

However [Ocular] [Chained] [metamagic rod Extended] Irresistable Dance is something to be feared.

[Socratov]

it's teep, but then again, (as mentioned), the no-save part is a pretty good deal. it be justified if it also wasn't subject to spell resistance, and wasn't mind affecting, but then it would be a lvl 6 (for bards and sublime chords alike) you-suck-so-hard-you-implode (opposed to a save-or-suck), which would essentially kill the vicitm, (no actions, severe penalties). Also, for just +6 LA you can have this at ECL 7, that's where this **** is scary like hell. A lvl 1 whatever pixie (ecl 7) can use greater invisibility at will, otto's irresistable dance, with casterlevel 8, auto succeeding on SR 9, and in 50% of the time succeeding on SR 18, so once per day, 1 enemy is just plain screwed...