Support for Riposte

[Incriptus]

Cityscape offers the Scout a direct replacement for Skirmish in Riposte. Well as an obscure alternate class feature it recives no support from Feats, Spells, or Magic Items.

I find myself curious, Which is better, assuming no support from magic items/feats/spells, Skirmish or Riposte.


Next how balanced would you find the following Skirmish to Riposte replacements?


The Magic Items I found look pretty straight forward.
Gloves of Agile Striking - MIC 105: Identical to the existing item, replace Skirmish with Riposte.
Rogues Vest - Mic 130: Identical to the existing item, replace Skirmish with Riposte.
Skirmisher Boots - MIC 136: Identical to the existing item, replace Skirmish with Riposte.
Murders Gloves - CM 133: Identical to the existing item, replace Skirmish with Riposte

As do the Feats, except for Improved Skirmish
Improved Skirmish - CS 78: This one doesn't seem to translate very well as it relies on changing the initial class features activation clause. Honestly changing from the 10 foot move to a 20 foot moves doesn't "seem" all that difficult. Perhaps if an opponent attacks you twice in one round add +2d6 damage +2 AC?
Swift Ambusher - CS 81: Identical to the existing feat replacing Skirmish with Riposte.
Swift Hunter - CS 81: Identical to the existing feat replacing Skirmish with Riposte.



Also if you find Daring Outlaw to be an acceptable feat, would you accept Daring Riposte? Swashbuckler & Scout's Riposte instead of Swashbuckler & Rogue's Sneak attack?

[Flickerdart]

Riposte is the suck. It's useless against opponents that are not attacking you, opponents that don't make attacks or opponents that you want to stop attacking you at all costs. Basically, it becomes up to the DM whether or not you can use your defining class feature.

[Coidzor]

Main issue is that you're obligated to use Robliar's Gambit and/or Karmic Strike, but you don't have the feats for it and don't really have the chassis for attracting attention, being at the forefront, and being hit in the face a lot.

Edit: You'd also need something like Snap Kick or the ability to attack with two weapons on an AoO or both. And if you go with Snap Kick you have to make your unarmed strike magic to say the least.

[Incriptus]

Tell you the truth I'm quite suprised by the negativity towards the feature. I rarely have a problem with people no trying to attack me. I guess it's because I was most recently playing a single player game.

I agree that it is probably not ideal for the scout, I think it would be roughly as useful as skirmish, if you didn't have support from Pounce & other abilities that allow full round actions after moving.

[Greenish]

I agree that it is probably not ideal for the scout, I think it would be roughly as useful as skirmish, if you didn't have support from Pounce & other abilities that allow full round actions after moving.Yes. In other words, it sucks.

[gkathellar]

I agree that it is probably not ideal for the scout, I think it would be roughly as useful as skirmish, if you didn't have support from Pounce & other abilities that allow full round actions after moving.

This is essentially equivalent to saying that, the core Ranger would be as good as the Wildshape Ranger, if not for all those animal forms.

[Incriptus]

Yes. In other words, it sucks.

It sucks until someone creates some support for it, hence the original posting. If casters had a list of 4 spells they could choose from they would suck. So yes I am saying lots of things suck until you get them some support.

[Flickerdart]

It sucks until someone creates some support for it, hence the original posting. If casters had a list of 4 spells they could choose from they would suck. So yes I am saying lots of things suck until you get them some support.
No, it just sucks. The basic idea behind it sucks. What it does sucks. The only kind of support that would make it not suck would be replacing it with a better ability like, oh, skirmish.

[Hazzardevil]

No, it just sucks. The basic idea behind it sucks. What it does sucks. The only kind of support that would make it not suck would be replacing it with a better ability like, oh, skirmish.

Riposte is a nice ability, it is just given to a class that can't use it well.
Give a Barbarian or a Crusader Riposte and they will have fun, they are tanks, riposte helps tanks. Give a Crusader Skirmish and it will run around in circles trying to use skirmish, and do it badly. Same goes for a scout with riposte.

In short? If a scout has riposte it needs better Hit Dice.

[Flickerdart]

Riposte is a nice ability, it is just given to a class that can't use it well.
Give a Barbarian or a Crusader Riposte and they will have fun, they are tanks, riposte helps tanks. Give a Crusader Skirmish and it will run around in circles trying to use skirmish, and do it badly. Same goes for a scout with riposte.

In short? If a scout has riposte it needs better Hit Dice.
Even with better HD it's a terrible ability. Barbarians and Crusaders don't need it, because they already have damage sources (Power Attack and maneuvers respectively). The pathetic Riposte dice don't really cut it.

[Fax Celestis]

The only time I've found it useful was on an aggro-centric Knight//Scout/Ranger build: awakened squirrel who rode his animal companion eagle as a mount, pulled aggro via Test of Mettle, used combat expertise and riposte for damage, and generally had ridiculous AC due to being Tiny + Riposte + Improved Combat Expertise.

[Boci]

The only time I've found it useful was on an aggro-centric Knight//Scout/Ranger build: awakened squirrel who rode his animal companion eagle as a mount, pulled aggro via Test of Mettle, used combat expertise and riposte for damage, and generally had ridiculous AC due to being Tiny + Riposte + Improved Combat Expertise.

Could also be useful for a lone wolf, a more glass cannony ranger character.

[Hazzardevil]

Even with better HD it's a terrible ability. Barbarians and Crusaders don't need it, because they already have damage sources (Power Attack and maneuvers respectively). The pathetic Riposte dice don't really cut it.

I meant that it was an interesting idea given to the wrong class. Riposte is meant to be for someone who tanks, not someone who hits and runs.

[Myth]

I know I'm getting off topic, but Hit Dice do not equal good tanking in any game beyond level 3.

[gkathellar]

The only time I've found it useful was on an aggro-centric Knight//Scout/Ranger build: awakened squirrel who rode his animal companion eagle as a mount, pulled aggro via Test of Mettle, used combat expertise and riposte for damage, and generally had ridiculous AC due to being Tiny + Riposte + Improved Combat Expertise.

Please tell me this was a boss that you made your PCs fight.

[Fax Celestis]

Please tell me this was a boss that you made your PCs fight.

Better, it was a character I played. I called him the Tiny Knight.

[gkathellar]

Better, it was a character I played. I called him the Tiny Knight.

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

[Thrice Dead Cat]

It's an interesting idea, but it falls under the "cool but situational" category. As long as you have dudes attacking you and some form of forcing them to attack you, it's fun and effective.

For similar ideas, do a quick search for Jack B. Quick. Karmic Strike and Robliar's Gambit are the big ones that make it worth while to be hit, but it takes more resources to ensure you can get your shtick to work.

[Manateee]

Also if you find Daring Outlaw to be an acceptable feat, would you accept Daring Riposte? Swashbuckler & Scout's Riposte instead of Swashbuckler & Rogue's Sneak attack?
Honestly, I wouldn't object to just giving Riposte to the swashbuckler. It would still be pretty weak mechanically, but it would at least support the swashbuckler's fencing motif better than all the levels of nothing.