Un-Op Feats

[Incriptus]

Lets face it there are alot more Un-Optimized Feats that there are Optimal feats. I'm wondering if anyone has toyed with the idea of giving out 'free' Un-Op'ed feats?

Honestly the idea is to not make anyone better at what they are already good at but to instead give them extra little quirks that would be appropriate for the character but are too much of a waste.

This is just in the brainstorming phase right now but I'm thinking of the following rules

1. Un-Op'ed feats can not be used as a prerequisite for anything! I'm trying to use the Un-Op Feats as a means to get around feat tax!

2. You can not select an Un-Op Feat the interacts in anyway with any of your classes strengths.

3. I think those two rules cover the majority, but there are some feats that are simply good. Might have to ban Devotion feats, for example, although the since they interact with Turn Undead they'd be banned for people who can truely abuse them.

3a. If you find a way to abuse your Un-Op feat I will snatch it away like a lollipop from a baby!

I'm thinking the idea targets of these Un-Op feats would be
The skill feats, for people who don't have it as a class skill
Location Specific feats like Altitude Adaption or Sea Legs from Frost Burn


Perhaps giving people an Un-Op feat option every other level? Perhaps as the GM I should assign the character an Un-Op when ever a roll/role playing experience dictates it?

Just thinking out loud before I go to sleep.

[JaronK]

I made a campaign that used this concept a while back... never got to use it though. The basic idea was a ninja themed campaign where the players were all students of a specific school which was destroyed (while they were away) during their first mission. The rest of their campaign revolved around collecting the pages of a powerful artifact book their school had used. They got the cover, and that cover would point the way to the next page (the pages having been scattered after the destruction of the school). Each time they returned a page to the book, they'd get a feat or special ability. Especially early on, the feats gained would be weak but characterful feats that are appropriate to the ninja concept.

JaronK

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I would prefer to just take all the really weak feats and combine them-- along thematic lines-- until we ended up with a shorter list of feats that are all more or less worth taking.

[Thiyr]

I'm a huge fan of using feats like these, as well as other similar kinds of options (extra invocations/spells known for warlocks/sorcerers, extra PP for a psiwar, etc) as rewards in addition to/in place of treasure when appropriate, even insofar as allowing them to serve as prereqs. Give a small list to choose from (say like the various magical locations.), and keep it appropriate for what was done, and it's quite nice.

[gkathellar]

I've contemplated it before. I guess the way to approach it would be to divide feats up into tiers, and then figure out at what levels feats of each tier were gained. You'd also probably want to put non-combat, non-spellcasting feats off in their own category.

[Telonius]

I've considered giving one of those "+2 to a skill, +2 to a skill" feats free to each player, as though it were a Trait. With Magical Aptitude, substitute Knowledge (Arcana) for UMD since UMD is just that good. (I handle Diplomacy a bit differently in my games, so Negotiator isn't as good as it otherwise would be). It certainly wouldn't be unbalancing.

[Demons_eye]

1. Un-Op'ed feats can not be used as a prerequisite for anything! I'm trying to use the Un-Op Feats as a means to get around feat tax!

Understandable but what if gaining some sort of feat allows new paths you never considered. Like a Warblade that got many of the feats for Master of Nine and met one in game who showed him up and, after, offered to teach him. What if I take Open Minded to gain a few skill points that are used to get into a class?



2. You can not select an Un-Op Feat the interacts in anyway with any of your classes strengths.

I can see this also but what about feats like Shape Soulmeld, Bind Vestige, and Wild Talent?



3. I think those two rules cover the majority, but there are some feats that are simply good. Might have to ban Devotion feats, for example, although the since they interact with Turn Undead they'd be banned for people who can truly abuse them.

I would take them out all together if you wont let cleric or Paladin use them or modify them to not gain extra uses for turn undead.



3a. If you find a way to abuse your Un-Op feat I will snatch it away like a lollipop from a baby!

Now what is your definition of abuse? If I gain track and started to use it, say, once a 'mission' is that abuse? If I gain blind fight and turn out the lights somehow to stop Line of Sight or just to gain an advantage is that abuse or creative thinking?