LGBTAitp - Part Nineteen

[Lix Lorn]

Hallo to all, and welcome to the nineteenth iteration of our safe, helpful place!

This is a thread where we Playgrounders, and LGBTAitp in particular, gather to discuss, share our experiences, give general advice and support one another in such matters as arise relating to, well, the world beyond heteronormativity.

Please note that although the title of the thread names only the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, and Asexual communities, it is intended as an all inclusive environment.


Everyone is welcome. Let's try to keep from seeming otherwise.
Keep this topic free of politics and religion. (so, don't violate the board rules, plz)
It's beyond the scope of this thread to discuss whether LGBT is "Right." (And really, most discussions probably should avoid moralizing too much anyway)
Please refrain from posting sexually explicit content. (Keep it friendly as well as board safe :smallsmile:)

If you would rather be anonymous when asking for advice or sharing your story or views, you can use the address below to send a message to be posted in this thread via proxy.

http://anonmail.smeenet.org/

Keep in mind that content which contain strong language may be filtered (Plus, y'know, the forum-filters), and content that violates the forum rules won't be posted at all.

Here are the links for the previous threads, where much of use or interest may be found:
LGBT people in the playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62225)

LGBT people in the playground - part II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86066)

LGBTitp - part III (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5663140#post5663140)

LGBTitp 4: We are a family? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129235)

LGBTitp - Part Five (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143424)

LGBTitp - Part Six (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147832)

LGBTitp - Part Seven (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157312)

LGBTitp - Part Eight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167395)

LGBTitp - Part Nine (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172747)

LGBTAitp - Part Ten (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177253)

LGBTAitp - Part Eleven (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181683)

LGBTAitp - Part Twelve (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10335967#)

LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192714)

LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200329)

LGBTAitp - Part Fifteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207987)

LGBTAitp - Part Sixteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11820872#)

LGBTAitp - Part Seventeen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219966)

LGBTAitp - Part Eighteen! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223792)


And, for reference, here is the Thousand&Wordster Dictionary of Commonly Used LGBTAitp Words and Phrases

Lagerbeta: A fine brewski to be drunk by queers and allies.
LGBT: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans*
Trans*: Transsexual and Transgender
LGBTA: LGBT+Asexual/Allies
QUILTBAG: Q - Queer and Questioning
U - Unidentified
I - Intersex
L - Lesbian
T - Transgender, Transexual
B - Bisexual
A - Asexual
G - Gay, Genderqueer
Allies: Straight people that support equality for sexuality and gender minorities.
MtF: Male-to-Female: A woman born with male nibblies, who may or may not be seeking HRT and/or SRS. (AKA: trans woman)
FtM: Female-to-Male: A man born with female nibblies, who may or may not be seeking HRT and/or SRS. (AKA: trans man)
GQ: Genderqueer.
CS: Cis-sexual: sex and gender match (a male with male nibblies, a female with female nibblies.
TS: Transsexual: Sex and gender disparity.
HRT: Hormone replacement therapy. MtF's take more progestrogens and oestrogens and FtM's take more testosterone (I think?)
SRS: Sex Reassignment Surgery: Surgery to replace/transform a vagina into a penis, or vice versa depending on direction. Mastectomies or plastic surgery may be used on breasts.
FFS: Facial Feminization Surgery: Plastic surgery to reduce chin/nose/cheekbones. Not very common.

Man: A cisman or transman. Male.
Woman: A ciswoman or transwoman. Female.
Androgyne: Gender Identity with male and female aspects.
Genderfluid: Someone who fluctuates between male and female.
Agendered: Someone who feels neither male nor female.
Third-gendered: Someone who fits in a local society's third gender, usually male performing female tasks, occasionally vice versa.
Masculine: Something generally associated with men.
Feminine: Something generally associated with women.

Lesbian: A woman who is attracted to women.
Gay: A man who is attracted to men.
Homosexual: A person who is attracted to members of their gender.
Heterosexual: A person who is attracted to members of the opposite gender.
Bisexual: A person who is attracted to both male and female people.
Pansexual: A person who is attracted to people regardless of gender.
Asexual: A person who does not feel any/some sexual attraction.
Demisexual: A person who is only sexually attracted to someone(s) they have formed an intense emotional relationship with.
Androsexual: A person (of any gender identity) who is sexually attracted to the male-bodied form.
Gynosexual: A person (of any gender identity) who is sexually attracted to the female-bodied form
Polyamorous: A person who is interested in a relationship with more than one person.
Radosexual: A person who is only attracted to rad people.
Pomosexual: A person who avoids SO labels.

Sexual Orientation: How one identifies who they are attracted to. (SO)
Gender Identity: How one feels inside society's idea of "man, woman, or other". (GI)
Gender Expression: How one expresses their GI to society. (GE)
Significant Other(s): Person you are in a relationship with. (SO)

[Al'izh'dheg]

Hooray for late Christmas presents! :)

[Astrella]

Yay, new thread. :)

Oh, littlelynn (author of the Rain webcomic) posted a new years resolution thingie on DeviantArt, so that made me think and my main resolution for the next year is to go to my gender therapist again as soon as possible (I didn't go again after my first meeting, but I feel a lot stronger in my identity now and I feel I have things figured out a bit better.) and hopefully start transitioning / presenting as female sometime next term.

[Asta Kask]

Everything that brings more boobs into the world is welcome.

[Eldest]

That's great! Good luck.

[Asta Kask]

*sternly*

Lix, have you told people to close the old thread?

[Al'izh'dheg]

Yay, new thread. :)

Oh, littlelynn (author of the Rain webcomic) posted a new years resolution thingie on DeviantArt, so that made me think and my main resolution for the next year is to go to my gender therapist again as soon as possible (I didn't go again after my first meeting, but I feel a lot stronger in my identity now and I feel I have things figured out a bit better.) and hopefully start transitioning / presenting as female sometime next term.

OMG I love Rain. That comic is one of the best things I ever got from this thread. :)

More on topic, I am so happy for you for making this decision! Please keep me...erm us informed of every little detail hon. *hugs*

[noparlpf]

Woo new thread!

What's that webcomic about?

[Mina Kobold]

Ah, clean, uncorrupted, fresh, one-page, wonderful new thread. ^_^

Must. Corrupt. @_@

*paints blue*

MWAHAHAHA!

Do you mean Rain, noparlpf? It's about a MtF transsexual trying to pass at school, the shenanigans happening while the characters try to cover their secrets and some drama from their relationships and fears. :smallsmile:

If it is another comic, then I have no clue. :3

[Eldest]

Does anybody have a link? My googleing has failed...

[Astrella]

It's on her DeviantArt page (http://littlelynn84.deviantart.com/).

[Al'izh'dheg]

You all forgot to also mention how incredibly awesome it is. :) Rain consistently makes me smile every time I see it.

[Eldest]

Thankye, much obliged.

[Qaera]

These threads move far too fast now o.o

~ ♅

[Coidzor]

These threads move far too fast now o.o

~ ♅

Their speed has always been rather variable. Go back and read through some of the old ones if you don't believe me. :smallwink:

Besides, as long as we're not having walls of text, it's pretty easy to read through an entire page of one-liners.

[Heliomance]

Yay! *boogies fabulously*

[noparlpf]

Re: Rain
Is this (http://littlelynn84.deviantart.com/gallery/27273884) it? Earlier when I Googled "rain webcomic" I got this (http://www.whoisrain.com/?p=163) instead.
Whichever it turns out to be, it sounds neat, and seeing as I'm in between books right now I think I'll check it out.

[golentan]

Hey, shiny new thread smell. Posting mostly so I can find it later.

[Arachu]

Farewell, old thread. I shall think of you every time I have a thought that isn't horrifying. :roach:

[SiuiS]

These threads move far too fast now o.o

~ ♅


Their speed has always been rather variable. Go back and read through some of the old ones if you don't believe me. :smallwink:

Besides, as long as we're not having walls of text, it's pretty easy to read through an entire page of one-liners.

Ehheh heh... >>;

How 'bout a compromise, mates? I'll make judicious use of labeled spoiler boxes, and y'all don't tar-and-feather me? :smallbiggrin:

[Mystic Muse]

Ehheh heh... >>;

How 'bout a compromise, mates? I'll make judicious use of labeled spoiler boxes, and y'all don't tar-and-feather me? :smallbiggrin:

I think this is less the kind of thread where we tar are feather people, and more the kind of thread where we give them milk and cookies.:smalltongue:

[Eldest]

*looks up from baking*
My cookies!

Your color is broken, btw.

[golentan]

I think this is less the kind of thread where we tar are feather people, and more the kind of thread where we give them milk and cookies.:smalltongue:

Yeah, if we were to coat anyone in a sticky brown-black substance, it would be chocolate. And we'd offer to help lick it off.

Thread as a whole, mind, not all of us as individuals.

[Kindablue]

Yeah, if we were to coat anyone in a sticky brown-black substance, it would be chocolate. And we'd offer to help lick it off.

Thread as a whole, mind, not all of us as individuals.
We are all individuals!
We are all individuals!
We are all individuals!
We are all individuals!


It's on her DeviantArt page (http://littlelynn84.deviantart.com/).

Thanks! Hadn't heard of that; rather enjoyed it.

[KenderWizard]

*sternly*

Lix, have you told people to close the old thread?

Are we supposed to do that? :smalleek:

Also, from last thread:

You don't find a lack of repetition there to be a poor sexual education? You don't find willfully and negligently ignoring it to be someone choosing to have a poor sexual education? You don't find parents not informing their daughters of this to be gross negligence and/or ignorance?

Yes, the pill can totally stop periods, you just have to not take the sugar pills they include in each box and have a prescription system such that you can get it filled before the dead week.

Oh, right, sorry, I forgot we all got a brilliant sex education and we're all rich enough to play with our medicine. :smallconfused: Seriously? You can start using tampons at, like, 10, if you get early periods. It's really easy to make a mistake. And if your parents don't know about TSS and your school doesn't give you a sex education, and you aren't able to read the fine print on the tampon instructions (due to illiteracy, blindness, youth, even bad ADD, or just being given a handful of tampons from someone instead of buying a packet), oh well, sucks to be you? The tampon companies hardly daub "WARNING, this product might RANDOMLY KILL YOU!!!" all over them.

I'm not saying you're totally wrong: people should know this stuff but some people don't, and it's not their fault. And seriously, dude, all it takes is a few extra hours to be dangerous. I've gone to sleep at midnight intending to get up in the morning and not woken up until 4pm the next day. That's extreme due to my fatigue, but it's really easy to do something like go for a nap at hour 4 and sleep too long and leave it in there. Which will be fine 99.9% of the time, but might not be, and hardly constitutes gross personal negligence. You have a point, but I really don't think you should make sweeping judgements about people who get a particular kind of infection or disease, it can smack a bit close to "Well, anyone who gets it deserves it."

And I know you can skip a period with the pill, but it is recommended that you don't make a habit of it, plus it costs extra money and is hardly an option for everyone.

[noparlpf]

Are we supposed to do that? :smalleek:

Also, from last thread:


Oh, right, sorry, I forgot we all got a brilliant sex education and we're all rich enough to play with our medicine. :smallconfused: Seriously? You can start using tampons at, like, 10, if you get early periods. It's really easy to make a mistake. And if your parents don't know about TSS and your school doesn't give you a sex education, and you aren't able to read the fine print on the tampon instructions (due to illiteracy, blindness, youth, even bad ADD, or just being given a handful of tampons from someone instead of buying a packet), oh well, sucks to be you? The tampon companies hardly daub "WARNING, this product might RANDOMLY KILL YOU!!!" all over them.

I'm not saying you're totally wrong: people should know this stuff but some people don't, and it's not their fault. And seriously, dude, all it takes is a few extra hours to be dangerous. I've gone to sleep at midnight intending to get up in the morning and not woken up until 4pm the next day. That's extreme due to my fatigue, but it's really easy to do something like go for a nap at hour 4 and sleep too long and leave it in there. Which will be fine 99.9% of the time, but might not be, and hardly constitutes gross personal negligence. You have a point, but I really don't think you should make sweeping judgements about people who get a particular kind of infection or disease, it can smack a bit close to "Well, anyone who gets it deserves it."

And I know you can skip a period with the pill, but it is recommended that you don't make a habit of it, plus it costs extra money and is hardly an option for everyone.

Hey, you even say "dude" sometimes! We are the same person.
Most products ought to post "Warning: This product might randomly kill you" somewhere on them. Even if it would usually just be in small print somewhere. But seriously, the number of seemingly harmless things I've managed to make go horribly wrong...it's a miracle I'm still alive.
Aside from that, I meant to comment on this last thread. But, as usual, KenderWizard has stated my opinion for me and in much more eloquent fashion. There's even a personal anecdote in there.
Let me just throw in a statistic I vaguely remember from something I read last year: in some study done sometime in the last couple of years, around 15% of American girls ages 7-8 had already entered puberty (but not necessarily begun menstruating). I think the numbers varied a bit by race and affluence (which affects nutrition), but the average was around 15%. Would you expect an eight-year-old to know about TSS or have been given any kind of health/sex ed yet?

[Knaight]

Thanks! Hadn't heard of that; rather enjoyed it.

The comic bit has a rather glacial update pace. It's worth keeping up with, and it's far better than some, but it is slow.

[Astrella]

The comic bit has a rather glacial update pace. It's worth keeping up with, and it's far better than some, but it is slow.

It's on a Ma / Wo / Fri update schedule if I remember correctly (though it's on a break now), I thought that was pretty much the standard for most story-based webcomics?

[supernerd]

Wow, I'm new to these threads, and I'm so glad they exist. I've been going through the questioning phase to end up as a homosexual today. The thing is, I tend to enjoy charisma builds(comes from being a multiclass nerd/thespian) and I've never played a straight character. And you wouldn't believe how much my pan Battledancer/Favored soul scarred our tomb of horrors DM(gender bended and left with nothing but a cloak for clothing due to an encounter with a gelatinous cube).

Anyways, thanks for being here, I've yet to check out Rain but I doubt I'll be disappointed.

I guess it's truly out now, at least for my forum avatar.

Also, I've been meaning to add the LGBTitP to my signature, but I wasn't sure what order to color it.

For those who have been intrigued as to my progress in accepting my sexuality:

Highschool sophomore
Self opinion: Definitely gay

Parents: I told them, and they're trying to accept it but seem to be in denial. We haven't talked much on the subject, but it seems that they really don't approve but it is comforting to know they care about their son.

Friends/Classmates: several figured it out on their own, I've told several, and they're all cool with it, even my D&D group's "homophobe" was cool with it after I said I generally disapprove of straight chasing(ie I'm not gonna do it again, completely different person though). I rarely run into trouble with classmates because of my sexuality.

Boyfriend: haven't had one officially but had two relationships, first started fairly well, but he was a drugie, and I couldn't get him to quit, and he had loyalty issues but he is still special, it was almost kissing him at a birthday party sleep over that really made me question myself and give my feelings towards men serious thought. Current one is pretty conservative, and doesn't want to date without being a real possibillity. Yeah he says his first kiss will be at the altar, but I did get him to say that he'd kiss me if I caught him under the mistletoe. Much more sincere. Still has a dark side though.

Pride: I made a rainbow bracelet in fiber design, but I ended up accidentally using teal instead of blue. Whoops! I have yet to join my school's GSA, but I really want to, although I don't know what my parents will say about it.

Hmm, wail of the banshee how much I am willing to tell complete strangers. I'd say weird, but wail of the banshee is so much better.

[Knaight]

It's on a Ma / Wo / Fri update schedule if I remember correctly (though it's on a break now), I thought that was pretty much the standard for most story-based webcomics?

It is allegedly on a Monday, Wednesday, Friday update schedule. In practice, it updates at nowhere near 3 times per week.

[Astrella]

It is allegedly on a Monday, Wednesday, Friday update schedule. In practice, it updates at nowhere near 3 times per week.

Odd, I don't really remember it missing an update in the last few months though. I do remember her having problems maintaining the schedule in the past though.

Edit: Hai Supernerd. *hugs*

Hope your parents turn around. Nice to know your friends and classmates are accepting. :smallsmile:

[turkishproverb]

Ah, new thread. Good times, Good times.

[Reluctance]

[SPOILER]Highschool sophomore
Self opinion: Definitely gay

Weirdo. Sophomore year is about angsting and wearing all black. You're not supposed to be happy. :smalltongue:


Parents: I told them, and they're trying to accept it but seem to be in denial. We haven't talked much on the subject, but it seems that they really don't approve but it is comforting to know they care about their son.

If it's any consolation, this sounds less like homophobia and more that this is taking them a bit to digest. They sound like they'll process it all sooner rather than later.

Everything else, I'm more of an advice guy. You sound like stuff's already pretty awesome for you. So congrats and welcome.

[supernerd]

Thanks Astrella. I think my parents are just new to this, most of the hurt in the conversations we did have was from the level of ignorance they had. I just need to warm them up to it.

On a higher note(speaking of which, I can hit a high E in falsetto, hence me being Bard in almost every D&D aptitude test) I finished chapter 1 of Rain, and I am thoroughly impressed, to keep out the jargon, but what the hey! It was awesome! New always open tab on my iPod for sure.

Edit: Well reluctance, I don't own any black, my parents wouldn't buy me any black, and I don't have money to buy it myself. And plus I don't think I wear it that well. Moreso the not wearing it well. But you did give me quite a smile! And I was pretty lucky looking back.

[Nix Nihila]

A new thread. How excellent. I'm quite surprised that we've gone through seven of these in the short time I've been here.


Weirdo. Sophomore year is about angsting and wearing all black. You're not supposed to be happy. :smalltongue:


That's supposed to be a Sophomore thing? Guess I developed my gloomy side early.

[supernerd]

Do Formal Fridays count as angst?

[Nix Nihila]

Do Formal Fridays count as angst?

:smalltongue: For me they were a constant source of it (OK, not quite constant, I didn't usually have to wear formal wear when I was younger). I won't go into how much I hold formal menswear in contempt, suffice to say that being forced into it when it assaulted my personal aesthetic and served as a reminder of my unfortunate position of having to present as male (or needing to in my mind, at least) was quite unpleasant.

My, I do sound rather sour, don't I? Don't mind me...

Also, welcome.

[supernerd]

:smalltongue: For me they were a constant source of it (OK, not quite constant, I didn't usually have to wear formal wear when I was younger). I won't go into how much I hold formal menswear in contempt, suffice to say that being forced into it when it assaulted my personal aesthetic and served as a reminder of my unfortunate position of having to present as male (or needing to in my mind, at least) was quite unpleasant.

My, I do sound rather sour, don't I? Don't mind me...

Also, welcome.

Thank you, and you don't sound sour, just frustrated, like wearing an itchy sweater, if that's a suitable analogy.

Oh my God, look ata that terrible comma splice that I'm too lazy to fix.

[Coidzor]

Are we supposed to do that? :smalleek:

Also, from last thread:

Oh, right, sorry, I forgot we all got a brilliant sex education and we're all rich enough to play with our medicine. :smallconfused: Seriously? You can start using tampons at, like, 10, if you get early periods. It's really easy to make a mistake. And if your parents don't know about TSS and your school doesn't give you a sex education, and you aren't able to read the fine print on the tampon instructions (due to illiteracy, blindness, youth, even bad ADD, or just being given a handful of tampons from someone instead of buying a packet), oh well, sucks to be you? The tampon companies hardly daub "WARNING, this product might RANDOMLY KILL YOU!!!" all over them.

While unpleasant, I am not quite following how this is supposed to rebut the point that it is only a health risk due to a lack of information on the parts of young women, such that someone, somewhere failed the girls. :smallconfused:

I'm especially confused as to how saying not everyone gets a good sex education is a counterpoint to commenting that poor sex education or a lack of it entirely could be linked to the prevalence of outbreaks.

But, yes, they probably do need warning labels.


I'm not saying you're totally wrong: people should know this stuff but some people don't, and it's not their fault.

How exactly was saying that sex education was poor the fault of the individual? In the case of the parents, it's still a failure, just a failure from a lack of ability rather than lack of will.


And seriously, dude, all it takes is a few extra hours to be dangerous. I've gone to sleep at midnight intending to get up in the morning and not woken up until 4pm the next day. That's extreme due to my fatigue, but it's really easy to do something like go for a nap at hour 4 and sleep too long and leave it in there. That does remind me, come to think of it, of the most awkward moment in my sexual education wherein a passage about not ever going to sleep with a tampon inside one's self and instead switching over to an alternative, such as pads was read. During the period in which the sexes were segregated. I suppose I just took that as understood to be a given, my apologies.


You have a point, but I really don't think you should make sweeping judgements about people who get a particular kind of infection or disease, it can smack a bit close to "Well, anyone who gets it deserves it."

Then I apologize for giving you the wrong impression. Who deserves to die and if such a classification exists are matters of some contention that I have no wish to get involved with.

It is, however, something eminently preventable, given sufficient information as far as I have researched the matter.


And I know you can skip a period with the pill, but it is recommended that you don't make a habit of it, plus it costs extra money and is hardly an option for everyone.

I wasn't saying it was an option for everyone. I believe I accounted for that in my initial statement on the matter. I was, however, observing that there are ways and means to never experience real or false menstruation.

As far as I understand, many have relaxed their recommendations against it, and there's been one or two mass-marketings of birth control packaging that limit scheduled periods to seasonal periods, annual periods, or no periods at all.


Would you expect an eight-year-old to know about TSS or have been given any kind of health/sex ed yet?

Unless the little girl is pilfering them from somewhere, then a parent or other guardian figure has to have acquired them for the child. So, yes. Yes, I would expect the parents to have imparted basic safety and hygiene about tampon use to their daughter if they didn't just start her on pads.

But I suppose that's the problem with great expectations, humans inevitably don't live up to them and someone, frequently but not always an innocent, gets hurt.

[Asta Kask]

Are we supposed to do that? :smalleek:

I thought so. I'm really just making crap up as I move along here.

[Lady Serpentine]

Weirdo. Sophomore year is about angsting and wearing all black. You're not supposed to be happy. :smalltongue:


*Grumbles*

Why does everyone have a problem with black clothing, or at least associate it with the wearer being unhappy in some fashion? Usually I'm quite cheerful, and my standard outfit is completely black. Is that really that uncommon? :smallconfused:

[Knaight]

Unless the little girl is pilfering them from somewhere, then a parent or other guardian figure has to have acquired them for the child. So, yes. Yes, I would expect the parents to have imparted basic safety and hygiene about tampon use to their daughter if they didn't just start her on pads.

But I suppose that's the problem with great expectations, humans inevitably don't live up to them and someone, frequently but not always an innocent, gets hurt.

I really don't think it's safe to assume that people will learn what they need from their parents, and shouldn't be taught those things through some other system.

[Asta Kask]

*Grumbles*

Why does everyone have a problem with black clothing, or at least associate it with the wearer being unhappy in some fashion? Usually I'm quite cheerful, and my standard outfit is completely black. Is that really that uncommon? :smallconfused:

Wearing black is a sign of mourning in Western Culture. I wonder if emo teens in other cultures wear white?

[Lissou]

I really don't think it's safe to assume that people will learn what they need from their parents, and shouldn't be taught those things through some other system.

I'm pretty sure Coidzor never said they shouldn't be taught those things from other sources. Actually, he did say that there should be repetition and overlap, as in parents should teach their kids that, and school should as well, etc.

I had no idea about the "no tampon at night" thing. Before switching to the cup I always wore tampon+pad at night. Mind you I'd change them a few times a night anyways so I guess I didn'wear them too long.
I'm pretty sure the notices said "wear them for no more than 8 hours" not 4 though.

On a related note, has anyone else wondered how it is that you wake up when you're just about to overflow? I used to feel like it was magic as a teenager, I'd wake up, it was time to change my tampon and pad, and the sheets didn't get any stains at all. It's kind of like when people wake up right before their stop in the subway. Magical powers!

I'm a bit confused as to why we're talking about this on the LGBT thread though. We always have the most interesting conversations here.

[Mina Kobold]

*Grumbles*

Why does everyone have a problem with black clothing, or at least associate it with the wearer being unhappy in some fashion? Usually I'm quite cheerful, and my standard outfit is completely black. Is that really that uncommon? :smallconfused:

I have only ever heard that black goes with everything, does that help? :3

I do not have a standard outfit at all, but I tend to wear black often enough and I do think I am somewhat cheery. :smallsmile:

Yay for cheery black clothing! ^_^



On a related note, has anyone else wondered how it is that you wake up when you're just about to overflow? I used to feel like it was magic as a teenager, I'd wake up, it was time to change my tampon and pad, and the sheets didn't get any stains at all. It's kind of like when people wake up right before their stop in the subway. Magical powers!

I'm a bit confused as to why we're talking about this on the LGBT thread though. We always have the most interesting conversations here.

I presume it is the same reason people tend to wake up when their bladders are full, which is either a natural reaction or a trained one to avoid having to change sheets every night. :smallsmile:

As for trains, maybe they just get used to the length of the trip and subconsciously wake themselves? Magic would be completely illogical! Yes, illogical...

>_>
<_<

*Magicks away.*

[KenderWizard]

While unpleasant, I am not quite following how this is supposed to rebut the point that it is only a health risk due to a lack of information on the parts of young women, such that someone, somewhere failed the girls. :smallconfused:

I'm especially confused as to how saying not everyone gets a good sex education is a counterpoint to commenting that poor sex education or a lack of it entirely could be linked to the prevalence of outbreaks.

Okay, miscommunication, I think! It was just the way you phrased it, it sounded like you were saying a person had to be really negligent of themselves for them to get TSS, but I think I understand now that you meant there was some negligence along the way, more likely the adults charged with looking after a young person hadn't done enough to ensure they used tampons safely.

And you're right, you're not really supposed to sleep with them in, but, y'know, people do. Especially bad is when you're running out of sanitary products so you're trying to make them stretch. Yet another reason cups are so great! :smallbiggrin:



As far as I understand, many have relaxed their recommendations against it, and there's been one or two mass-marketings of birth control packaging that limit scheduled periods to seasonal periods, annual periods, or no periods at all.

Yeah, I've heard about the four-periods-per-year birth control. Don't know about elsewhere, but I haven't actually come across it at all here yet.


*Grumbles*

Why does everyone have a problem with black clothing, or at least associate it with the wearer being unhappy in some fashion? Usually I'm quite cheerful, and my standard outfit is completely black. Is that really that uncommon? :smallconfused:

I went through the black phase without the emo phase, so I getcha!



I had no idea about the "no tampon at night" thing. Before switching to the cup I always wore tampon+pad at night. Mind you I'd change them a few times a night anyways so I guess I didn'wear them too long.
I'm pretty sure the notices said "wear them for no more than 8 hours" not 4 though.

On a related note, has anyone else wondered how it is that you wake up when you're just about to overflow? I used to feel like it was magic as a teenager, I'd wake up, it was time to change my tampon and pad, and the sheets didn't get any stains at all. It's kind of like when people wake up right before their stop in the subway. Magical powers!

I'm a bit confused as to why we're talking about this on the LGBT thread though. We always have the most interesting conversations here.

Oh, I think it says 8 on the packet, but I was always told change once you get a chance after you go past 4 hours. But then, my mother lost a friend to TSS in school, so she was probably being extra-safe.

That does sound magic! I don't think my magic was quite so well tuned in that area, though...!

[Al'izh'dheg]

Re: Rain
Is this (http://littlelynn84.deviantart.com/gallery/27273884) it? Earlier when I Googled "rain webcomic" I got this (http://www.whoisrain.com/?p=163) instead.
Whichever it turns out to be, it sounds neat, and seeing as I'm in between books right now I think I'll check it out.

Yes, that would be the one hon. :)


Wow, I'm new to these threads, and I'm so glad they exist. I've been going through the questioning phase to end up as a homosexual today. The thing is, I tend to enjoy charisma builds(comes from being a multiclass nerd/thespian) and I've never played a straight character. And you wouldn't believe how much my pan Battledancer/Favored soul scarred our tomb of horrors DM(gender bended and left with nothing but a cloak for clothing due to an encounter with a gelatinous cube).

Anyways, thanks for being here, I've yet to check out Rain but I doubt I'll be disappointed.

I guess it's truly out now, at least for my forum avatar.

Also, I've been meaning to add the LGBTitP to my signature, but I wasn't sure what order to color it.

For those who have been intrigued as to my progress in accepting my sexuality:

Highschool sophomore
Self opinion: Definitely gay

Parents: I told them, and they're trying to accept it but seem to be in denial. We haven't talked much on the subject, but it seems that they really don't approve but it is comforting to know they care about their son.

Friends/Classmates: several figured it out on their own, I've told several, and they're all cool with it, even my D&D group's "homophobe" was cool with it after I said I generally disapprove of straight chasing(ie I'm not gonna do it again, completely different person though). I rarely run into trouble with classmates because of my sexuality.

Boyfriend: haven't had one officially but had two relationships, first started fairly well, but he was a drugie, and I couldn't get him to quit, and he had loyalty issues but he is still special, it was almost kissing him at a birthday party sleep over that really made me question myself and give my feelings towards men serious thought. Current one is pretty conservative, and doesn't want to date without being a real possibillity. Yeah he says his first kiss will be at the altar, but I did get him to say that he'd kiss me if I caught him under the mistletoe. Much more sincere. Still has a dark side though.

Pride: I made a rainbow bracelet in fiber design, but I ended up accidentally using teal instead of blue. Whoops! I have yet to join my school's GSA, but I really want to, although I don't know what my parents will say about it.

Hmm, wail of the banshee how much I am willing to tell complete strangers. I'd say weird, but wail of the banshee is so much better.

Welcome! Always nice to see new faces.


Odd, I don't really remember it missing an update in the last few months though. I do remember her having problems maintaining the schedule in the past though.

Agreed. Knaight, I have been following it religiously for several months now and have not noticed a consistent lack of updates. It may not be every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, but it seems pretty regular. At least regular enough for my ADD not to get sidetracked and lost. :)

[Asta Kask]

I presume it is the same reason people tend to wake up when their bladders are full, which is either a natural reaction or a trained one to avoid having to change sheets every night. :smallsmile:

That is a natural reflex. When lacking it causes nocturnal bedwetting syndrome. And men have that problem too, only our sheets tend to be slimy for reasons relating to wet dreams. :smallwink:

[Viera Champion]

Wow, I'm new to these threads, and I'm so glad they exist. I've been going through the questioning phase to end up as a homosexual today. The thing is, I tend to enjoy charisma builds(comes from being a multiclass nerd/thespian) and I've never played a straight character. And you wouldn't believe how much my pan Battledancer/Favored soul scarred our tomb of horrors DM(gender bended and left with nothing but a cloak for clothing due to an encounter with a gelatinous cube).

Anyways, thanks for being here, I've yet to check out Rain but I doubt I'll be disappointed.

I guess it's truly out now, at least for my forum avatar.

Also, I've been meaning to add the LGBTitP to my signature, but I wasn't sure what order to color it.

For those who have been intrigued as to my progress in accepting my sexuality:

Highschool sophomore
Self opinion: Definitely gay

Parents: I told them, and they're trying to accept it but seem to be in denial. We haven't talked much on the subject, but it seems that they really don't approve but it is comforting to know they care about their son.

Friends/Classmates: several figured it out on their own, I've told several, and they're all cool with it, even my D&D group's "homophobe" was cool with it after I said I generally disapprove of straight chasing(ie I'm not gonna do it again, completely different person though). I rarely run into trouble with classmates because of my sexuality.

Boyfriend: haven't had one officially but had two relationships, first started fairly well, but he was a drugie, and I couldn't get him to quit, and he had loyalty issues but he is still special, it was almost kissing him at a birthday party sleep over that really made me question myself and give my feelings towards men serious thought. Current one is pretty conservative, and doesn't want to date without being a real possibillity. Yeah he says his first kiss will be at the altar, but I did get him to say that he'd kiss me if I caught him under the mistletoe. Much more sincere. Still has a dark side though.

Pride: I made a rainbow bracelet in fiber design, but I ended up accidentally using teal instead of blue. Whoops! I have yet to join my school's GSA, but I really want to, although I don't know what my parents will say about it.

Hmm, wail of the banshee how much I am willing to tell complete strangers. I'd say weird, but wail of the banshee is so much better.

That's cute. We're loud and we're proud.

We are always here for you.

And if you ever want any advice on being an openly gay high school sophomore, I am one of those myself.:smallbiggrin:

Much love and all that jazz, keep up the good work.:smallwink:

[Lix Lorn]

:smalltongue: For me they were a constant source of it (OK, not quite constant, I didn't usually have to wear formal wear when I was younger). I won't go into how much I hold formal menswear in contempt, suffice to say that being forced into it when it assaulted my personal aesthetic and served as a reminder of my unfortunate position of having to present as male (or needing to in my mind, at least) was quite unpleasant.

My, I do sound rather sour, don't I? Don't mind me...
I agree with this paragraph entirely.
Well, less so on the personal aesthetic.

[Asta Kask]

I am convinced that ties were invented by an evil madman.

[Al'izh'dheg]

I am convinced that ties were invented by an evil madman.

Probably the same one who invented the bra... or corsets... or any of a myriad of other female-oriented torture devices. :smallbiggrin:

Edit:
On a related note, my wife thought she would be clever a while ago. Keep in mind this was when I first mentioned my transgender curiosity. She looked at me, grinned and said, "Okay, if you want to wear women's clothing so badly, put on my bra."

"Umm... it's a bit big for me, hon."

"No no. Go ahead, put it on. See if you can deal with that torture for a while."

So I tried it on. She looked at me with great expectation, as if any moment I was going to scream in agony and turn away from my chosen path, never to return. Instead I got a huge grin on my face (after struggling to get the blasted thing hooked in the back. What's with that? I can unhook a bra blindfolded with one hand (don't ask), but I can't put one on myself without an act of sheer willpower), crossed the room, found a fresh pair of panties and smiled at her. "It's actually quite nice. Thank you SO much. Can I wear it the rest of the day?"

:smalltongue: I can be such an imp sometimes.

[Asta Kask]

Bras are very practical if you have large boobs.

[Ichneumon]

Hi everyone, I need some advise... sorry if I'm rambling.

I recently started doubting my gender identity, or actually, I recently came to terms with the fact that I have been doubting it for a very long time (really, I've been asking myself this question and yet ignoring it for many many years) and accepted that I am really not sure about whether I'd feel more comfortable being male or female and that I might indeed do have a "problem" that I at least need to face and deal with. I don't know what I am - transgender, transsexual, or maybe nothing so extreme or even if I should label myself at all- and I'm certainly not sure how that would affect concrete decisions for my future life, but I now seem to be more and more convinced I'd rather be a girl (I'm physically a boy btw - guess I'm sort of "coming out" on these forums as well). Although I have a great fear of surgeries and don't find the idea that appealing to alter the way I am or even pretend to be something that I am not (I don't want to run away from reality, that's exactly not what this is about at all, quite the opposite, accepting who I am), so I don't know yet where to go from that point, but I feel I really just need to talk to someone who knows what they're talking about and maybe it's nothing at all and it does turn out to be just a phase and those feelings will go away and mean nothing, but at least I've dealt with them and not ignore them.

I've done some google'ing and there is a transgender organisation in my town that allows you to make confidential appointments with them and they offer you advise and give information etc. Which, I guess, would be perfect and just what I need. Since I really just need to talk to someone and share my emotions and feelings, just so to get my head straight (no pun intended) and be less confused about my identity, so that I can make the right decisions and don't keep postponing things.

I'm really old enough to go without asking my parent's permission (I'm turning 22 next week - guess that's a bit old, right? In the hypothetical case I do in the end wanting hormone treatment and surgery?), but I'm not certain whether it is a good idea to keep this hidden from them or whether it's a good idea to "come out". I could easily go without them knowing, with very small chance of them finding out, but would it be wise? Although it is just a talk, it does feel like I'm hiding quite a big thing from them. The thing is, I don't really know yet what to tell them, other than that I've been having doubts about how I feel inside and that if the world would be simple and I could just turn a switch and be a girl- I probably would.

So tl;dr : Should I wait to tell my parents I am questioning my gender identity and am possibly transgender till I actually know more clearly what to tell them or should I tell them I'm seeking advise?

Any other advise is welcome as well.

[Heliomance]

Probably the same one who invented the bra... or corsets... or any of a myriad of other female-oriented torture devices. :smallbiggrin:

I think bras are quite comfortable. And I've not tried a corset, but I'd like to.

[Asta Kask]

What are your parents like?

[Al'izh'dheg]

Hi everyone, I need some advise... sorry if I'm rambling.

I recently started doubting my gender identity, or actually, I recently came to terms with the fact that I have been doubting it for a very long time (really, I've been asking myself this question and yet ignoring it for many many years) and accepted that I am really not sure about whether I'd feel more comfortable being male or female and that I might indeed do have a "problem" that I at least need to face and deal with. I don't know what I am - transgender, transsexual, or maybe nothing so extreme or even if I should label myself at all- and I'm certainly not sure how that would affect concrete decisions for my future life, but I now seem to be more and more convinced I'd rather be a girl (I'm physically a boy btw - guess I'm sort of "coming out" on these forums as well). Although I have a great fear of surgeries and don't find the idea that appealing to alter the way I am or even pretend to be something that I am not (I don't want to run away from reality, that's exactly not what this is about at all, quite the opposite, accepting who I am), so I don't know yet where to go from that point, but I feel I really just need to talk to someone who knows what they're talking about and maybe it's nothing at all and it does turn out to be just a phase and those feelings will go away and mean nothing, but at least I've dealt with them and not ignore them.

I've done some google'ing and there is a transgender organisation in my town that allows you to make confidential appointments with them and they offer you advise and give information etc. Which, I guess, would be perfect and just what I need. Since I really just need to talk to someone and share my emotions and feelings, just so to get my head straight (no pun intended) and be less confused about my identity, so that I can make the right decisions and don't keep postponing things.

I'm really old enough to go without asking my parent's permission (I'm turning 22 next week - guess that's a bit old, right? In the hypothetical case I do in the end wanting hormone treatment and surgery?), but I'm not certain whether it is a good idea to keep this hidden from them or whether it's a good idea to "come out". I could easily go without them knowing, with very small chance of them finding out, but would it be wise? Although it is just a talk, it does feel like I'm hiding quite a big thing from them. The thing is, I don't really know yet what to tell them, other than that I've been having doubts about how I feel inside and that if the world would be simple and I could just turn a switch and be a girl- I probably would.

So tl;dr : Should I wait to tell my parents I am questioning my gender identity and am possibly transgender till I actually know more clearly what to tell them or should I tell them I'm seeking advise?

Any other advise is welcome as well.

First off, WELCOME! :smallbiggrin:

I understand many of the emotions you are expressing right now as I've recently done pretty much the same thing as you. The difference is I'm 37, not 22 (did you say you were old?!), and I'm married with 7 children. In my opinion this is not only a good thing that you are questioning now, but an awesome thing. Now is the time for you to define what it is that will make you happy as that decision (or lack thereof in my case) will be one you live with going forward.

Not to say you can't change your mind later, or anything like that. I merely mean it is best to do this now as opposed to myself who is dealing not only with myself, but my entire family.

I'm not certain I have the best advice regarding your parents. I'm not particularly close to my parents at all (read: we haven't spoken in 10+ years). However, speaking from a purely objective standpoint, I would suspect this conversation you propose to have with them is liable to cause them quite a bit of stir, and likely will lead to questions and statements you don't sound like you're prepared to answer or deal with.

My suggestion therefore is for you to hold off on speaking with your parents until you have something to tell them, whether that be "Man, for a bit I thought I might have a gender identity issue, but it turns out it was just gas," or "Mom, Dad, guess what, the doc was wrong, it's a girl!"*

Again, welcome to the madhouse, Golentan has the cookies and Lix has the hugs (if you're into hugs of course). Just be certain you don't mix the two up... Golentan has like a billion arms... makes for quite the shock in a hug. :smalltongue:

*Note: these are probably listed in the top 10 worst ways to start a serious conversation about gender identity. :smallbiggrin:

[Viera Champion]

Hi everyone, I need some advise... sorry if I'm rambling.

I recently started doubting my gender identity, or actually, I recently came to terms with the fact that I have been doubting it for a very long time (really, I've been asking myself this question and yet ignoring it for many many years) and accepted that I am really not sure about whether I'd feel more comfortable being male or female and that I might indeed do have a "problem" that I at least need to face and deal with. I don't know what I am - transgender, transsexual, or maybe nothing so extreme or even if I should label myself at all- and I'm certainly not sure how that would affect concrete decisions for my future life, but I now seem to be more and more convinced I'd rather be a girl (I'm physically a boy btw - guess I'm sort of "coming out" on these forums as well). Although I have a great fear of surgeries and don't find the idea that appealing to alter the way I am or even pretend to be something that I am not (I don't want to run away from reality, that's exactly not what this is about at all, quite the opposite, accepting who I am), so I don't know yet where to go from that point, but I feel I really just need to talk to someone who knows what they're talking about and maybe it's nothing at all and it does turn out to be just a phase and those feelings will go away and mean nothing, but at least I've dealt with them and not ignore them.

I've done some google'ing and there is a transgender organisation in my town that allows you to make confidential appointments with them and they offer you advise and give information etc. Which, I guess, would be perfect and just what I need. Since I really just need to talk to someone and share my emotions and feelings, just so to get my head straight (no pun intended) and be less confused about my identity, so that I can make the right decisions and don't keep postponing things.

I'm really old enough to go without asking my parent's permission (I'm turning 22 next week - guess that's a bit old, right? In the hypothetical case I do in the end wanting hormone treatment and surgery?), but I'm not certain whether it is a good idea to keep this hidden from them or whether it's a good idea to "come out". I could easily go without them knowing, with very small chance of them finding out, but would it be wise? Although it is just a talk, it does feel like I'm hiding quite a big thing from them. The thing is, I don't really know yet what to tell them, other than that I've been having doubts about how I feel inside and that if the world would be simple and I could just turn a switch and be a girl- I probably would.

So tl;dr : Should I wait to tell my parents I am questioning my gender identity and am possibly transgender till I actually know more clearly what to tell them or should I tell them I'm seeking advise?

Any other advise is welcome as well.

Technically you cannot be a transsexual until you physical change sexes, but that is beside the point in this discussion.

I really do not know what your family situation is like, so I would not know whether or not you should come out to them or not, and to tell the truth, even if I DID know your family situation, beyond any basic advice that myself, or anyone else on this forum could give you, you are going to still get a lot of, "It is up to you." In the end, that is what it all comes down to. We can talk about your parents reaction, how comfortable you feel coming out, whether or not this is just a phase, but what it all comes down to, is do you want to tell them. I can tell you from my own experiences, I felt like an idiot for waiting as long as I did to come out to my parents, for they really already knew, and as I have a lesbian aunt, there really was not any danger of them having a problem with it. At the same time, my lesbian friend came out to her dad last year. He said some very mean things to her, and was quite an ass about the whole thing, but in the end, she still was glad that she could get that off her chest, and did not have to hide who she was anymore, and with time, he is slowly moving past his negative feelings.

So like I said, no matter what any of us have to say, you still have to decide for yourself whether or not you would feel better coming out, or keeping your true identity hidden.

And that is all the advice I really have to give you.

[Astrella]

Everything that brings more boobs into the world is welcome.

Oh, you. :smalltongue:


That's great! Good luck.


More on topic, I am so happy for you for making this decision! Please keep me...erm us informed of every little detail hon. *hugs*

Thank you both. :smallsmile:


Hi everyone, I need some advise... sorry if I'm rambling.

I recently started doubting my gender identity, or actually, I recently came to terms with the fact that I have been doubting it for a very long time (really, I've been asking myself this question and yet ignoring it for many many years) and accepted that I am really not sure about whether I'd feel more comfortable being male or female and that I might indeed do have a "problem" that I at least need to face and deal with. I don't know what I am - transgender, transsexual, or maybe nothing so extreme or even if I should label myself at all- and I'm certainly not sure how that would affect concrete decisions for my future life, but I now seem to be more and more convinced I'd rather be a girl (I'm physically a boy btw - guess I'm sort of "coming out" on these forums as well). Although I have a great fear of surgeries and don't find the idea that appealing to alter the way I am or even pretend to be something that I am not (I don't want to run away from reality, that's exactly not what this is about at all, quite the opposite, accepting who I am), so I don't know yet where to go from that point, but I feel I really just need to talk to someone who knows what they're talking about and maybe it's nothing at all and it does turn out to be just a phase and those feelings will go away and mean nothing, but at least I've dealt with them and not ignore them.

I've done some google'ing and there is a transgender organisation in my town that allows you to make confidential appointments with them and they offer you advise and give information etc. Which, I guess, would be perfect and just what I need. Since I really just need to talk to someone and share my emotions and feelings, just so to get my head straight (no pun intended) and be less confused about my identity, so that I can make the right decisions and don't keep postponing things.

I'm really old enough to go without asking my parent's permission (I'm turning 22 next week - guess that's a bit old, right? In the hypothetical case I do in the end wanting hormone treatment and surgery?), but I'm not certain whether it is a good idea to keep this hidden from them or whether it's a good idea to "come out". I could easily go without them knowing, with very small chance of them finding out, but would it be wise? Although it is just a talk, it does feel like I'm hiding quite a big thing from them. The thing is, I don't really know yet what to tell them, other than that I've been having doubts about how I feel inside and that if the world would be simple and I could just turn a switch and be a girl- I probably would.

So tl;dr : Should I wait to tell my parents I am questioning my gender identity and am possibly transgender till I actually know more clearly what to tell them or should I tell them I'm seeking advise?

Any other advise is welcome as well.

Well, gender identity can be very confusing to figure out (oh, and don't worry about age; people figure out that they're not gender-normative at all sorts of ages, it's not exactly an easy thing to come to terms with / recognize all the time. And for age for HRT / SRS, it doesn't matter as much, while off course it'll be more effective at a younger age, the most important thing is being certain about it. (I've heard being <25 being preferable for HRT, but I don't think it really matters a lot.) ; it's good that you've already done some research. First conversations are in general very non-committal, and from personal experience at least it's very liberating to be able to talk about it openly to other people. (either specialists, or just other people you can be open to, gender-normative or not. You can always pm me in case you wanna talk about for example.)

As Asta said, it depends on your parents stance on LGBT+ and trans* issues in general. Personally, I would wait with telling them until you've maybe had a conversation about it / talked to some people; but again, it really depends on how you feel about it and how your parents would react. If you don't know your parents stance, bringing up something trans*-related in the news / a movie / book / etc. could be a great way of gauging your opinions.

But anyways, best of luck in figuring out your gender identity and you can always come here for advice, sympathy and hugs.

(Also, not sure if this is meaningful, but you always read as female to me.)


Technically you cannot be a transsexual until you physical change sexes, but that is beside the point in this discussion.

Actually, transsexual just means wanting / needing it to some degree, you don't have to have actually undergone surgery / HRT to be transsexual.

[Ichneumon]

Well, they are accepting, usually. When I became a vegetarian many many years ago, this was an issue with them at first, but my father agreed to it and permitted it, because although he didn't agree with my reasoning, he saw I was sincere. I know they are supportive of homosexuality, but at least of my mother I know she doesn't think that positively about transexuals. They do care for me and my father is a very reasonable man, I'm just afraid they will just say: "You're just confused." and tell me to think things over and wait. They'll likely try to link this to my recent break up with my girl friend a few months ago, which in all honestly I don't think has anything to do with this problem at all (although this might well have been 1 of the reasons we broke up after 2 months).

I still live at home, btw. So if it becomes a problem, it's difficult to avoid it, but if I want to actually start constructively dealing with this (regularly going to meetings or even in the long term, start clothing differently and stuff like that- it's hard not to let them know).

[Astrella]

Well, they are accepting, usually. When I became a vegetarian many many years ago, this was an issue with them at first, but my father agreed to it and permitted it, because although he didn't agree with my reasoning, he saw I was sincere. I know they are supportive of homosexuality, but at least of my mother I know she doesn't think that positively about transexuals. They do care for me and my father is a very reasonable man, I'm just afraid they will just say: "You're just confused." and tell me to think things over and wait. They'll likely try to link this to my recent break up with my girl friend a few months ago, which in all honestly I don't think has anything to do with this problem at all (although this might well have been 1 of the reasons we broke up after 2 months).

I still live at home, btw. So if it becomes a problem, it's difficult to avoid it, but if I want to actually start constructively dealing with this (regularly going to meetings or even in the long term, start clothing differently and stuff like that- it's hard not to let them know).

Well, explaining it with the adage of "I've been seeing a therapist for this" could provide a stronger "case" against a "you're just confused" reply. One thing to keep in mind is that while you've had a lot of time to think about this; it could come completely out of the blue for your parents; so it's also important to give them the time they need to handle it; though someone else can probably give you some better advice for dealing with the parents, considering mine don't fully know / accept it at the moment.

[Viera Champion]

Actually, transsexual just means wanting / needing it to some degree, you don't have to have actually undergone surgery / HRT to be transsexual.

That is not what I was taught. Learn something new every day.:smallbiggrin:

[Asta Kask]

My advise - as someone who has absolutely no clue what he's talking about - would be to contact the transgender group first. You will probably not be the only one who has come there with doubts, rather than a kind of "I AM CERTAIN" feeling. And it's not like they are there to recruit people (although I do hear gays get a toaster for every 500 children they subvert).

Then, if you feel more sure, you can talk to your parents and tell them you've done your homework. If they ask why you did not come to them first, say you wanted to be sure.

And if you don't feel sure after a while, you can still hang around here as an ally. Ok?

*hugs*

[Astrella]

Curses, Asta. Why can you say in 2 lines what takes me a whole paragraph of unclear rambling. :c

[Ichneumon]

Well, explaining it with the adage of "I've been seeing a therapist for this" could provide a stronger "case" against a "you're just confused" reply. One thing to keep in mind is that while you've had a lot of time to think about this; it could come completely out of the blue for your parents; so it's also important to give them the time they need to handle it; though someone else can probably give you some better advice for dealing with the parents, considering mine don't fully know / accept it at the moment.

Thanks for the advise (and your other post too, which I didn't se before) and everthing! :smallsmile:

I agree, it might be better to seek advise first. Both get more information and have the chance to really pin point what my feelings are before I get to them.

I've actually tried bringing transsexuality up once or twice before, with mixed results. My father seems to be really okay with it, at least in a theoretical sense, don't know how he'd react if it was about his only son of course. He's very interested in all kinds of philosophical subjects, including gender studies. So he certainly knows enough about it to understand the differences between sex and gender etc.

I don't think my parents suspect anything, although they might think I'm gay (I don't really date and have showed little interest in girls in the past). They do frequently mention the subject of me having children... don't know how to interprete that, either them really wanting me to have children, them being worried I'm gay or even them thinking I'm gay and wanting to give me the opportunity to come out...

Oh and thanks for the 'compliment' I appear female online. It did cheer me up. :smallbiggrin:

Thanks again for the advise and I'm certainly going to come back here for more questions and share my feelings. I'll also not shy away from pm'ing you. :smallsmile:

[Asta Kask]

Age brings wisdom.

*nods sagely*

[Ichneumon]

:smallsigh: I really should check if there have been more posts before I post a reaction I spend 10 minutes writing. Thank you too, Asta. :smalltongue:

I think that's indeed what I'm gonna go. Will give them a call next week and see when I can get an appointment.

[Asta Kask]

I've actually tried bringing transsexuality up once or twice before, with mixed results. My father seems to be really okay with it, at least in a theoretical sense, don't know how he'd react if it was about his only son of course.

Tell them they're not losing a son but gaining a daughter... :smallbiggrin:


They do frequently mention the subject of me having children... don't know how to interprete that, either them really wanting me to have children, them being worried I'm gay or even them thinking I'm gay and wanting to give me the opportunity to come out...

If they're worried about grandchildren, leave a sperm sample in a cryobank before converting. That way, you can still have kids who are genetically yours.

[KenderWizard]

Bras win over ties because they have a useful function. But a badly fitting and especially a tight bra is way worse than a tie. Especially since if you're at a dinner party and you say "Excuse me" and loosen your tie with a relieved, it's cool and casual. If you're at a dinner party and you say "Excuse me", do the hand-up-the-back-of-your-shirt dance and pull your bra out your sleeve with a relieved sigh, you get kicked out of polite company.


Hi everyone, I need some advise... sorry if I'm rambling.

*snip*

I always err on the side of trying to keep things open. Of course, I'm very lucky to have a good relationship and communication with my parents, who are super-tolerant people, so I know this isn't right for everyone. If you don't think it's at the stage of sitting them down and having a Big Talk about it, maybe you could pick one (sounds like your dad might be easier to chat to about these things) and just have a casual conversation about trans things or feeling at a bit of a crossroads in life or dealing with self-identity, and see how the conversation goes. If it comes up, it comes up, if it doesn't, having talked about this stuff might make it easier to "come out" if the moment does come. But definitely go to the support group thingy, that sounds like a fantastic resource!

[Eldest]

Re: Black clothing and angst
All the "emo" kids at my school are the happiest people I know. Heck, I'm wearing dark jeans and a black t-shirt right now, and I'm usually (aggressively) happy. If that was a joke, ok. If that was serious, I disagree.

[Qaera]

We need a list of queers that can help in specific topics via PM if they so choose :p

~ ♅

[Asta Kask]

Are there support groups for relatives to transgender people? It can be a rather major adjustment, after all.

[Al'izh'dheg]

Curses, Asta. Why can you say in 2 lines what takes me a whole paragraph of unclear rambling. :c

You and I both. We must be more... creative. Yes. That's it. :smallbiggrin:


Thanks for the advise (and your other post too, which I didn't se before) and everthing! :smallsmile:

I agree, it might be better to seek advise first. Both get more information and have the chance to really pin point what my feelings are before I get to them.

Nitpick mode: "Advise" is a verb. "Advice" is a noun. :) (Sorry, not trying to be a pest, just trying to help)

I've actually tried bringing transsexuality up once or twice before, with mixed results. My father seems to be really okay with it, at least in a theoretical sense, don't know how he'd react if it was about his only son of course. He's very interested in all kinds of philosophical subjects, including gender studies. So he certainly knows enough about it to understand the differences between sex and gender etc.

Sounds like a cool father.

I don't think my parents suspect anything, although they might think I'm gay (I don't really date and have showed little interest in girls in the past). They do frequently mention the subject of me having children... don't know how to interprete that, either them really wanting me to have children, them being worried I'm gay or even them thinking I'm gay and wanting to give me the opportunity to come out...

As a parent, I can say this probably can be taken at face value. They probably just want grandbabies. Although there may be a bit of something more to it, I don't know your parents.

Oh and thanks for the 'compliment' I appear female online. It did cheer me up. :smallbiggrin:

Few things feel as good as validation, yes? :)

Thanks again for the advise and I'm certainly going to come back here for more questions and share my feelings. I'll also not shy away from pm'ing you. :smallsmile:

Please do come back often! :)

[Ichneumon]

Thanks for the spelling correction. English is not my native language, so I could use all the help you can give me. :smallsmile:

[Al'izh'dheg]

Thanks for the spelling correction. English is not my native language, so I could use all the help you can give me. :smallsmile:

:smalleek:Oh my, I had no idea. I hope I didn't come across as a pompous tool just now. For a non-native speaker, you have a very good command of the language.

[Ichneumon]

:smalleek:Oh my, I had no idea. I hope I didn't come across as a pompous tool just now. For a non-native speaker, you have a very good command of the language.

Oh no problem at all and you didn't come across as bad in any way. I constantly improve the spelling of my friends as well. :smallwink:

[Coidzor]

Sounds like you're not quite yet comfortable with it then, so going through and talking it out and getting things crystalized sounds, on the surface and from your apparent tone, to be the best idea for now.

[Astrella]

*snip*

No problem. :smallsmile:

I think it's important to have people you can talk about this openly with; it took me until I had a great online friend who I felt really comfortable around and trusted before I could really acknowledge my feelings and didn't feel like a "freak" or wrong for having them.


Are there support groups for relatives to transgender people? It can be a rather major adjustment, after all.

There are; or at least, I've heard of at least one local one.

(Oh, on that note, even though I was a bit weary of browsing reddit since due to it user-moderated nature there can be quite a bit of misogyny and other vileness on it; but I was pleasantly surprised by its LGBT+ related subreddits.

r/asktransgender has some really helpful people on it it seems from reading on it quite a bit earlier and seems to be a good place to go with questions as well.)

[Lix Lorn]

I think bras are quite comfortable. And I've not tried a corset, but I'd like to.
I haven't tried either...


:smalleek:Oh my, I had no idea. I hope I didn't come across as a pompous tool just now. For a non-native speaker, you have a very good command of the language.
I'm just glad you pointed it out. It was making me twitch.

Personally, I found that pretty much everyone I've told has reacted better than I could hope. They do seem to claim or worry that I might be overreacting, so maybe I'd agree with people saying go to the group for a bit first. :smallsmile:

[Asta Kask]

What did your girlfriend say? Apart from you, she's the one with the most personal interest in your private parts.

[Coidzor]

I haven't tried either...

At one point I had enough for a trainer/A, I believe, and I've tried out bras before. They're really nothing to write home about as far as the shoulder straps go or the backstrap either. You pretty much need something to fill them with to get the full effect.

Of course, if the bra isn't fitted right, it can lead to a world of hurt, as my rather tall ex-fiance found out when one of her bras shrank and she had difficulty having it fit in regards to the distance from the backstrap over her shoulders to the top of the cup, even when expanded to the maximum size.

Corsets come in two varieties, the modern kind which don't actually constitute misogyny incarnate and the traditional kind which can and will alter bone structure and destroy one's body, which are misogyny incarnate.

[Mystic Muse]

I haven't tried either...


Bras are kind of comfortable. Especially if you have virtual boobs to put in them. :smallredface:

[Dire Moose]

*sneak-attack-bull-rush-tackle-glomps Ichneumon*

With that over with, I would suggest you don't actually come out to your family until you've been to the group and are more sure of yourself. However, you should probably drop a few hints to your parents so nothing comes out of the blue.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful; I don't know what I'm talking about either.

[Asta Kask]

I've dressed up in drag, complete with bra and padding. I was a foolish and easily led youth. :smallsmile:

[Mina Kobold]

Hiya, Ichneumon! I do not think you have any reason to know of me (I barely do!) but you were once in ABR, so...

*GLOMP*

As for advice, I sadly have little wisdom to give, but I think it is wise to talk it over with others and understand yourself before trying to make your parents do so.
Search for what you are happy with and don't let confusion weigh you down, I'm sure you'll find a wonderful answer. ^_^

On another note, I have not tried a corset either. Maybe I should go for a pirate costume with one next Halloween! But then my ninja side would be sad... :smallfrown:

Ninja-pirate! Of course! :3

[H Birchgrove]

Everything that brings more boobs into the world is welcome.
Does that include obesity amongst males and male use of anabolic steroids?


*Grumbles*

Why does everyone have a problem with black clothing, or at least associate it with the wearer being unhappy in some fashion? Usually I'm quite cheerful, and my standard outfit is completely black. Is that really that uncommon? :smallconfused:
I associate black clothing with urban vigilantes. Especially if slouch hats and cloaks are included.

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

The weed of crime bears bitter fruit. Crime does not pay.

The Shadow knows...

... and the Shadow never fails!

GOD HELP THE GUILTY.:smallamused:


Probably the same one who invented the bra... or corsets... or any of a myriad of other female-oriented torture devices. :smallbiggrin:
The modern day brassiere was invented by a woman who wanted to get rid of the corset. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caresse_Crosby
:smallcool:


Corsets come in two varieties, the modern kind which don't actually constitute misogyny incarnate and the traditional kind which can and will alter bone structure and destroy one's body, which are misogyny incarnate.
There are corsets for medical purposes, like the one John F. Kennedy had to wear due to his back problems. Sadly, it made him unable to duck when he heard that fatal rifle shot... :smallfrown:

[Asta Kask]

Does that include obesity amongst males and male use of anabolic steroids?

I take the 5th.

[Qaera]

I take the 5th.

Hey, you can't do that! :smalltongue:

~ ♅

[Ichneumon]

What did your girlfriend say? Apart from you, she's the one with the most personal interest in your private parts.

Well, we broke up a few months ago and don't really see each other that often any more. The relationship didn't really work for many reasons. One of which, which seems somewhat significant now, was that she felt I was too often acting like the woman in the relationship (and she had to act to often as "the man"). On my part a large reason was that I just didn't feel comfortable, being a boyfriend and doing boyfriendish-stuff. Often times it felt like I was playing an act or doing things "like they have to be done".

There were more reasons though and in the end we also just weren't what we needed each other to be. I talked to her about it, mostly because I wanted to talk to someone I know and thought she might have a valuable perspective (like you said). She seemed a bit confused, but said that I wasn't the most masculine guy she knew. But she didn't have anything else to add.


[SIZE="1"]
I'm just glad you pointed it out. It was making me twitch.

Personally, I found that pretty much everyone I've told has reacted better than I could hope. They do seem to claim or worry that I might be overreacting, so maybe I'd agree with people saying go to the group for a bit first. :smallsmile:

I can completely understand it makes you twitch. :smalltongue:


- other non-spelling related stuff you wrote -

Yeah, my father is the best. :smallbiggrin: I do not doubt he would support me in the end at all. It's just that it might take a while and needs to be done gently.


I've dressed up in drag, complete with bra and padding. I was a foolish and easily led youth. :smallsmile:

I've dressed as a woman a few times long ago, didn't have a bra though. :smallsmile:

[H Birchgrove]

I take the 5th.

I don't understand... :smallconfused: :smalleek:

PS. Did you cross-dress during Easter as a witch? :smalltongue:

[KenderWizard]

We need a list of queers that can help in specific topics via PM if they so choose :p

~ ♅

I like that idea! I'm not very useful... ooh! Unless someone has feminism-related issues! Or, uh, periods. Bi things? Unintentionally-hidden-queer things?


Thanks for the spelling correction. English is not my native language, so I could use all the help you can give me. :smallsmile:

Well, in fairness, that mistake is one that a lot of native speakers make as well!

[Ichneumon]

Hiya, Ichneumon! I do not think you have any reason to know of me (I barely do!) but you were once in ABR, so...

*GLOMP*

As for advice, I sadly have little wisdom to give, but I think it is wise to talk it over with others and understand yourself before trying to make your parents do so.
Search for what you are happy with and don't let confusion weigh you down, I'm sure you'll find a wonderful answer. ^_^

On another note, I have not tried a corset either. Maybe I should go for a pirate costume with one next Halloween! But then my ninja side would be sad... :smallfrown:

Ninja-pirate! Of course! :3

Of course I remember you! You're Keveak the Kobold! We go WAY back. :smallbiggrin:

Thanks for the kind words.

[Astrella]

We need a list of queers that can help in specific topics via PM if they so choose :p

~ ♅

That's actually not a bad idea.

I'm not sure if I can dispense a lot of good advice, but I'm always willing to lend a listening ear. (Though on subject matter, trans* issues are probably something I can help out with, cause I think I'm quite knowledgeable about them.)

[Asta Kask]

I don't understand... :smallconfused: :smalleek:

Fifth amendment to the Constitution. I don't have to witness against myself - I can refuse to answer questions in court. We have something similar in Sweden, and in all Western countries.


PS. Did you cross-dress during Easter as a witch? :smalltongue:

It was a school project, to interpret a poem. The poem we chose contained a transvestite. I was stunning.

[Viera Champion]

We need a list of queers that can help in specific topics via PM if they so choose :p

~ ♅

I really like this idea. I feel particularly knowledgeable in the field of teen homosexuality (specifically in high school). I promise you, that if something you are going through in this field has not happened to me specifically, it has happened to someone else that I know. I have lots of advice for many situations and plenty of examples to help me.:smallbiggrin:

[Lix Lorn]

It was a school project, to interpret a poem. The poem we chose contained a transvestite. I was stunning.
Pics or it didn't happen. :smalltongue:

[Viera Champion]

Pics or it didn't happen. :smalltongue:

Very much agreed.:smallbiggrin:

[Eldest]

Plead the fifth is an expression used in the USA if you don't want to answer a question. It's from our Bill of Rights, the fifth amendment.
E: And that's what happens when I wait too long to answer a question.

[Mina Kobold]

Of course I remember you! You're Keveak the Kobold! We go WAY back. :smallbiggrin:

Thanks for the kind words.

Yay, I am remembered!...

*Remembers past self*

By Einstein's moustache, I am remembered. :smalleek:

[Asta Kask]

It was a school project, to interpret a poem. The poem we chose contained a transvestite. I was stunning.


Pics or it didn't happen. :smalltongue:


Very much agreed.:smallbiggrin:

That was twenty years ago, and any pics are fortunately long gone. I also had a whip and tall riding boots for some reason. There was a video, but... like I said, twenty years ago.

[Asta Kask]

Heard on a call-in show:


"Hello?"

"Yes, we are FNORD RADIO SHOW."

"You support gay and lessie marriage?"

"That is correct."

"Well, as soon as they pass that I'll be marrying my gorilla."

"Good! You should always marry your intellectual equals."

*click*

[Lord Raziere]

Yay, I am remembered!...

*Remembers past self*

By Einstein's moustache, I am remembered. :smalleek:

Good for you. Everyone probably wants to forget me after I meet them.

[H Birchgrove]

Fifth amendment to the Constitution. I don't have to witness against myself - I can refuse to answer questions in court. We have something similar in Sweden, and in all Western countries.
We have courts? :smallconfused:

I thought we settled things at the holmgång; two men persons enters, one leaves. :smalltongue:


It was a school project, to interpret a poem. The poem we chose contained a transvestite. I was stunning.
Awesomeness!

[Mina Kobold]

Good for you. Everyone probably wants to forget me after I meet them.

Nope, you're plenty groovy. I might not be the best gauge of everybody, but I am one of them and I think you're plenty fun. :smallsmile:

I kind of wish people would not remember me as a thirteen-year-old, but all I can do is be super-duper ultra not-a-brat now. ^_^

Unless... Oh, Iiichy? Come and plaaay! I won't trap you in the mausoleum and hide the key! http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q106/Beans-tastic/Emoticons/g4267.png :smalltongue:

[Dire Moose]

AK, that radio show shouldn't have been so insulting toward gorillas.

[Heliomance]

Bras are kind of comfortable. Especially if you have virtual boobs to put in them. :smallredface:

An MTF friend of mine refers to them as "chesticles" ^_^

People, give me a kick to go get a haircut and shave and actually start trying to present as androgynous in the new year. I haven't had a haircut in over four years, the idea is oddly intimidating. I kinda want to get an actual androgynous style, as opposed to just long.

[Mystic Muse]

An MTF friend of mine refers to them as "chesticles" ^_^

People, give me a kick to go get a haircut and shave and actually start trying to present as androgynous in the new year. I haven't had a haircut in over four years, the idea is oddly intimidating. I kinda want to get an actual androgynous style, as opposed to just long.

I'm trying to grow my hair out. Not sure how to keep it flat though (It's kind of a mess), and I couldn't find the last thing that was suggested to me (Some thread by a poster whose name I can't recall off the top of my head because I didn't have much experience with her).

[Coidzor]

^: Are you thinking of Dragonrider from back in the days of yore?
An MTF friend of mine refers to them as "chesticles" ^_^

Ahh, I'd forgotten about that classy term.


People, give me a kick to go get a haircut and shave and actually start trying to present as androgynous in the new year.

Would you have me burn a Rembrandt?

[Lix Lorn]

That was twenty years ago, and any pics are fortunately long gone. I also had a whip and tall riding boots for some reason. There was a video, but... like I said, twenty years ago.
Clearly you should do it again!

[golentan]

An MTF friend of mine refers to them as "chesticles" ^_^

People, give me a kick to go get a haircut and shave and actually start trying to present as androgynous in the new year. I haven't had a haircut in over four years, the idea is oddly intimidating. I kinda want to get an actual androgynous style, as opposed to just long.

You should do it! Androgyny is ~haaaawt... :smallredface:

So yeah. I won't actually kick you into doing it. But I will make awkward comments until you go cut your hair to make you feel uncomfortable.

So... your hair's long then. It smells vaguely of cheetos. It's nice. Can I lick it for you? Awkwardness dial set on 2/10... :smalltongue:

[bluewind95]

Wow! I leave 2 days and there's pages and pages of thread! In a new one, no less!

I want to look androgynous, but... sadly, my chest won't let me :smallfrown:

[Ashen Lilies]

Tell them they're not losing a son but gaining a daughter... :smallbiggrin:


For whatever reason this specific phrase brings to mind huuuuuuuge... tracts of land. >.> :smalltongue:

Also this thread makes me feel unloved because I happen to like ties and male formal clothing in general. v.v

Uh... That's all I have to say for now. <.<

[turkishproverb]

They make Suits and tuxes for women too.

[Qaera]

For whatever reason this specific phrase brings to mind huuuuuuuge... tracts of land. >.> :smalltongue:

Also this thread makes me feel unloved because I happen to like ties and male formal clothing in general. v.v

Uh... That's all I have to say for now. <.<

Those look good on people of all body flavors. :P

~ ♅

[Ashen Lilies]

What, ties, or huge tracts of land? :smalltongue:

[Lissou]

Probably the same one who invented the bra... or corsets... or any of a myriad of other female-oriented torture devices. :smallbiggrin:

I'm pretty sure corsets were originally for males, so you can't accuse the person of being sexist at least.
Although I don't find corsets uncomfortable. I expected to before I tried one on, but the hard part is managing to get the thing on. After that I kept it on for hours with no problem. No such luck with bras.


Bras are very practical if you have large boobs.

I disagree. I think it's one of these things when it depends. Personally I stopped wearing bras years ago because when you have heavy breasts bras turn your breasts into a "frontpack" due to the straps, and I was in a lot of shoulder pain. Corsets, which provide support from the bottom up, are way more comfortable to me, as is wearing no underwear at all. But I've also heard some women say they couldn't imagine going without one, so it probably varies from one person to the next.

[Qaera]

What, ties, or huge tracts of land? :smalltongue:

Both~!

~ ♅

[Asta Kask]

Clearly you should do it again!

Yeah, that was 120 lbs. ago as well. I was thin as a rake in school, and I'm... not any longer.

[Mina Kobold]

People, give me a kick to go get a haircut and shave and actually start trying to present as androgynous in the new year. I haven't had a haircut in over four years, the idea is oddly intimidating. I kinda want to get an actual androgynous style, as opposed to just long.

Hairstyles? Maybe I should get me one of those! :3

Not sure if I can make myself do anything mean if you do not do it, so please do not let us down! I do not like kicking people! :smalleek:



Also this thread makes me feel unloved because I happen to like ties and male formal clothing in general. v.v

Eep! Feelings of unlovedness! Must fix!

*Glomps and gives cookies*

I do not think ties or formal wear looks bad at all either, does that help? :smallsmile:

Then again, I never wear formal wear...

[Heliomance]

Would you have me burn a Rembrandt?

I don't get it :smallconfused:

[Ichneumon]

Question: I'm not really that familiar with the exact differences between all the different labels (transexual, transgender, queer, etc). Could someone maybe give a few definitions? Of course there will be disagreement between what means what, but a general outline? Wikipedia was strangely enough rather unhelpful and confusing.



Unless... Oh, Iiichy? Come and plaaay! I won't trap you in the mausoleum and hide the key! http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q106/Beans-tastic/Emoticons/g4267.png :smalltongue:

I... don't get it.:smallfrown: I sure like the idea of playing a game though, but what's with the mausoleum and the key? Is there a reference I didn't get?

[SiuiS]

ok. I am a pony of my word, so let's see how we can divy this up. Response delayed because I noticed I had Rain up in one of my tabs >.<"

EDIT: Ichneumon, try this link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12275000&postcount=1) in the spoiler on the very bottom. Not much, but it's almost 03:00 here so I don't have time to really reformat it for a new post. Sorry ^^"

[Silliness]

I think this is less the kind of thread where we tar are feather people, and more the kind of thread where we give them milk and cookies.:smalltongue:

Ooh, cookies! *absconds with the plate & glass*


*looks up from baking*
My cookies!

Your color is broken, btw.

Oh, uh... Sorry ^^ *gives cookies back*

And thanks! New hardware, isn't quite used to darkgreen being one word... Well, I mean now it is due to incessant repetition but then it wasn't. >.<


Yeah, if we were to coat anyone in a sticky brown-black substance, it would be chocolate. And we'd offer to help lick it off.

Thread as a whole, mind, not all of us as individuals.

Licking sweets off the body; fun for giver until diabetic shock; fun for receiver until it becomes an impromptu waxing :smallbiggrin:

I get the hint, though, I'll stick around and stop feeling like a bother :smallredface: :smallsmile:

[Clothing]
:smalltongue: For me they were a constant source of it (OK, not quite constant, I didn't usually have to wear formal wear when I was younger). I won't go into how much I hold formal menswear in contempt, suffice to say that being forced into it when it assaulted my personal aesthetic and served as a reminder of my unfortunate position of having to present as male (or needing to in my mind, at least) was quite unpleasant.

I always thought that would be balanced out by women looking so very much better in men's clothing than men. And by the gender divide in clothing being inherently silly, but that's because I've always had a waifish figure.

I think I can sympathize though; if a kilt is any indication, skirts and dresses are way more comfortable and fun to wear than pants or other bifurcated garments.


Wearing black is a sign of mourning in Western Culture. I wonder if emo teens in other cultures wear white?

I know some who tried it, but black is slimming, and white just sort of limns all the tiny imperfections they didn't want to show the world. White is a much harder color to pull off well, methinks.


Probably the same one who invented the bra... or corsets... or any of a myriad of other female-oriented torture devices. :smallbiggrin:

I dunno. Some folks have absolutely no trouble with the garments because of their figures. I almost made $500 USD on a bet that I could go a day (full 24 hours) in a corset in comfort. The other person chickened out :smallbiggrin:



On a related note, my wife thought she would be clever a while ago. *Keep in mind this was when I first mentioned my transgender curiosity. *She looked at me, grinned and said, "Okay, if you want to wear women's clothing so badly, put on my bra."

"Umm... it's a bit big for me, hon."

"No no. *Go ahead, put it on. *See if you can deal with that torture for a while."

So I tried it on. *She looked at me with great expectation, as if any moment I was going to scream in agony and turn away from my chosen path, never to return. *Instead I got a huge grin on my face (after struggling to get the blasted thing hooked in the back. *What's with that? *I can unhook a bra blindfolded with one hand (don't ask), but I can't put one on myself without an act of sheer willpower), crossed the room, found a fresh pair of panties and smiled at her. *"It's actually quite nice. *Thank you SO much. *Can I wear it the rest of the day?"

:smalltongue: *I can be such an imp sometimes.

Well played!
I've seen the clasp issue beaten by putting it on backwards around the belly, rotating it, sliding it up the torso and then putting everything into position.

The thing is, I've seen this done. But even writing that description out, my response is "that's utter bollocks, doesn't it go against the design of the garment?" so now I'm not so sure. Maybe she was just really limber/luckily endowed?


I think bras are quite comfortable. And I've not tried a corset, but I'd like to.

Horsefeathers I Forgot why I quoted this...*
Oh! Halloween, working at pizza hut. Wore a bra for a nine hour shift and didn't notice. So I have to agree. The corset was a sloppy renn faire costume piece though so I can't comment there.

[Hair & Such]
People, give me a kick to go get a haircut and shave and actually start trying to present as androgynous in the new year. I haven't had a haircut in over four years, the idea is oddly intimidating. I kinda want to get an actual androgynous style, as opposed to just long.

Have you examined exactly how you would be more androgynous? Specifically, what things you could change about you that would give the desired effect? Less is often more, I find, and a clear concept does wonders. And it's a lot easier to do when you think "change X, Y and Z" than "change stuff for a more generally androgynous look".*


I'm trying to grow my hair out. Not sure how to keep it flat though (It's kind of a mess), and I couldn't find the last thing that was suggested to me (Some thread by a poster whose name I can't recall off the top of my head because I didn't have much experience with her).

Do you have curly/wavy hair?
Putting it into a tight bun/ponytail immediately out of the shower, or showering just before bed and then wearing a stocking or similar to bed did it for me.


Hi everyone, I need some advise... sorry if I'm rambling.

I recently started doubting my gender identity, or actually, I recently came to terms with the fact that I have been doubting it for a very long time (really, I've been asking myself this question and yet ignoring it for many many years) and accepted that I am really not sure about whether I'd feel more comfortable being male or female and that I might indeed do have a "problem" that I at least need to face and deal with. I don't know what I am - transgender, transsexual, or maybe nothing so extreme or even if I should label myself at all- and I'm certainly not sure how that would affect concrete decisions for my future life, but I now seem to be more and more *convinced I'd rather be a girl (I'm physically a boy btw - guess I'm sort of "coming out" on these forums as well). Although I have a great fear of surgeries and don't find the idea that appealing to alter the way I am or even pretend to be something that I am not (I don't want to run away from reality, that's exactly not what this is about at all, quite the opposite, accepting who I am), so I don't know yet where to go from that point, but I feel I really just need to talk to someone who knows what they're talking about and maybe it's nothing at all and it does turn out to be just a phase and those feelings will go away and mean nothing, but at least I've dealt with them and not ignore them.*

I've done some google'ing and there is a transgender organisation in my town that allows you to make confidential appointments with them and they offer you advise and give information etc. Which, I guess, would be perfect and just what I need. Since I really just need to talk to someone and share my emotions and feelings, just so to get my head straight (no pun intended) and be less confused about my identity, so that I can make the right decisions and don't keep postponing things.

I'm really old enough to go without asking my parent's permission (I'm turning 22 next week - guess that's a bit old, right? In the hypothetical case I do in the end wanting hormone treatment and surgery?), but I'm not certain whether it is a good idea to keep this hidden from them or whether it's a good idea to "come out". I could easily go without them knowing, with very small chance of them finding out, but would it be wise? Although it is just a talk, it does feel like I'm hiding quite a big thing from them. The thing is, I don't really know yet what to tell them, other than that I've been having doubts about how I feel inside and that if the world would be simple and I could just turn a switch and be a girl- I probably would.*

So tl;dr : Should I wait to tell my parents I am questioning my gender identity and am possibly transgender till I actually know more clearly what to tell them or should I tell them I'm seeking advise?

Any other advise is welcome as well.

Given all the information you've presented, I'd say wait. You are going to see if there is even really anything to tell your parents after all, right? As far as caution goes, it is easier to understand that you wanted to make absolutely quintuplely sure before saying anything than potentially jumping the gun.

Of course, I feel weird saying be careful about jumping the gun, but I justify it by being extremely paranoid about all sorts of things. Which I suppose makes this bad advice... Or perhaps I'm explaining poorly? I'll just... Stop while my teeth are only up to my ankle >>;


:smallsigh: I really should check if there have been more posts before I post a reaction I spend 10 minutes writing. Thank you too, Asta. :smalltongue:

I think that's indeed what I'm gonna go. Will give them a call next week and see when I can get an appointment.

From experience; under the window where you type in your response is a list of all posts at the end of the thread, in reverse. After you type something up, hit "Preview". Then, scroll down and see if anything new has shown up that you want to respond to.

Seeing as I usually spend upward of 30+ minutes on a 'small' post, I use this with frequency.


We need a list of queers that can help in specific topics via PM if they so choose :p

~ ♅

...Isn't that what the thread here is for?


Are there support groups for relatives to transgender people? It can be a rather major adjustment, after all.

... Isn't that what the thread here is for?

I mean, I understand wanting a more intimate and private setting for details such as would be discussed, especially as the odds of conversation diverging to technically non-thread worthy minutia are high. But generally, I understood that this sort of support was the point of the thread, and that it was considered better, in the end, to make it something to discuss openly rather than seem like a dirty secret?

And adjusting to a family member or friend who comes out is still a LGBTA+ issue - its one thing to be open to the concept, and another to remain so magnanimous when your life and relationship with someone is being torn apart by curve balls. Even more so when the general sentiment is "it's hard for them, so suck it up and deal with your problems later/you have no right to have problems with this".

Am I incorrect?


Well, we broke up a few months ago and don't really see each other that often any more. The relationship didn't really work for many reasons. One of which, which seems somewhat significant now, was that she felt I was too often acting like the woman in the relationship (and she had to act to often as "the man"). *On my part a large reason was that I just didn't feel comfortable, being a boyfriend and doing boyfriendish-stuff. Often times it felt like I was playing an act or doing things "like they have to be done".*

I've found that establishing what you want out of a relationship before hand is a rather useful measure. I've also found that it often gets in the way of actually for in that relationship. *shrug*

It is interesting to note the implied gender roles. If you don't mind my asking, what things did you feel you had to do that we're 'masculine' or 'an act'?

[Kindablue]

I love men's formal wear. I pretend like I'm James Bond most of the time anyway, so it really helps with the illusion.


EDIT: Ichneumon, try this link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12275000&postcount=1)
QUILTBAG... need to use that in conversation somehow...


...Isn't that what the thread here is for?
What about issues that are either so personal that people would be uncomfortable discussing them (even in relative anonymity) in what is essentially public, or issues that involve sex, religion, or politics?


Question: I'm not really that familiar with the exact differences between all the different labels (transexual, transgender, queer, etc). Could someone maybe give a few definitions? Of course there will be disagreement between what means what, but a general outline? Wikipedia was strangely enough rather unhelpful and confusing.

I found this glossary to be helpful. (http://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,38783.0.html)

[Asta Kask]

I found this glossary to be helpful. (http://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,38783.0.html)

Just don't read the rest of the thread, because it goes south fairly quickly... :smallfrown:

It's interesting (and troubling) because the skeptic movement is good at accepting homosexuals and bisexuals. But when a transgender person turns up, a small group of people begin talking about 'real' men and women and how that has to do with chromosomes, etc. It is a small group but as someone who wants the skeptics to be as accepting as possible it's really frustrating. Natalie who wrote that glossary left the boards soon afterwards because she was so frustrated...

Sorry, that was a rant. Please come to that board and try to make things better, but be aware that there may be difficulties. We're not a bad bunch, but... yeah, rambling, I am doing it.

[turkishproverb]

Well, back from the dark place. :smallsmile:

[Ichneumon]

Thanks for all the links! They're really helpful.


I've found that establishing what you want out of a relationship before hand is a rather useful measure. I've also found that it often gets in the way of actually for in that relationship. *shrug*

It is interesting to note the implied gender roles. If you don't mind my asking, what things did you feel you had to do that we're 'masculine' or 'an act'?[/color]

Well, it's often the boy who takes initiative for things, is protective and somewhat more "aggressive" and generally the "active"* one, including when it comes to intimacy. Taking on that role felt forced and unnatural.

(*I certainly don't mean "active" in a sense that you need to work for your relationship or make sacrifices, since that's something both people need to do, it's difficult to explain and find a word for it. Someone know what I mean?)

[Asta Kask]

Well, back from the dark place. :smallsmile:

The place where the sun doesn't shine? :smallsmile:

[Lanaya]

I feel a need to rant. I apologise if this is disjointed or repetitive, I'm not in a coherent and concise mood. My sexuality is kinda weird, I'm male but am only interested in sex from the female perspective. I fantasise exclusively about being female, thinking about sex from the male perspective completely fails to do it for me, it can't even hold my attention and after a few seconds of trying I'll start thinking about something else. A quick Google search shows that there are certainly other people who fantastise about being the opposite sex and who are assured that it's fine, it's just fantasy, doesn't really mean anything, carry on with your life. Which is great. But I haven't seen any reference to people who are only interested in being the opposite sex, and for me it kinda does affect real life, because, well, I'm just not interested in the idea of having sex in real life. I understand in a detached, logical sense that it would be enjoyable if I did, but detached logical thought really isn't enough to convince me to pursue sex.

But it's not that I don't have a sex drive, I do, and I want to want to have sex, because from what I hear sex is pretty good. I'll see someone attractive and think "damn, she's hot", but the thought of actually tapping that (to use crude, tasteless language) is... kinda icky, actually. But then, the thought of having sex as a woman is rather appealing, so I have the desire and I have the equipment, they just don't match. The idea of spending the rest of my life unfulfilled and mildly frustrated isn't exactly exciting. qqqqqqqqqqwoeajisdpaoairjoasdpaodem. That is my not-happy word. I'm not really sure where to go from here, so this seems as good a time as any to end this rant.

This has been a rather negative post, so to balance it out I found a picture of a dog wearing an AT-AT costume.

http://www.pr0gramm.com/data/images/2011/10/dog-in-an-atat-costume-640x480.jpg

[Asta Kask]

So... you are attracted to women (and men?) but you can only find sex from the female perspective attractive? Am I getting it correctly?

Do you feel male?

[Ichneumon]

I feel a need to rant. I apologise if this is disjointed or repetitive, I'm not in a coherent and concise mood.

It's cool. :smallsmile:


I fantasise exclusively about being female, thinking about sex from the male perspective completely fails to do it for me, it can't even hold my attention and after a few seconds of trying I'll start thinking about something else. A quick Google search shows that there are certainly other people who fantastise about being the opposite sex and who are assured that it's fine, it's just fantasy, doesn't really mean anything, carry on with your life. Which is great. But I haven't seen any reference to people who are only interested in being the opposite sex, and for me it kinda does affect real life, because, well, I'm just not interested in the idea of having sex in real life.

I certainly can't give you meaningful advice, but I just wanted to let you know I think I understand what you mean and that, if I do understand you correctly, I do this too, including the "only interested" part.


I'll see someone attractive and think "damn, she's hot", but the thought of actually tapping that (to use crude, tasteless language) is... kinda icky, actually.

This certainly sounds familiar.



This has been a rather negative post, so to balance it out I found a picture of a dog wearing an AT-AT costume.

http://www.pr0gramm.com/data/images/2011/10/dog-in-an-atat-costume-640x480.jpg

I like the dog.:smalltongue:

[KenderWizard]

Heard on a call-in show:

Love it!



People, give me a kick to go get a haircut and shave and actually start trying to present as androgynous in the new year. I haven't had a haircut in over four years, the idea is oddly intimidating. I kinda want to get an actual androgynous style, as opposed to just long.

Go with a friend, and have some ideas of what you want! And go for it, it's going to be great!




I want to look androgynous, but... sadly, my chest won't let me :smallfrown:

Yeah, I'm just the wrong shape. Androgynous in that sexy svelte David Bowie way is not compatible with my curves. I'm all breasts and hips and tummy and thighs, and I have a girly face.



I disagree. I think it's one of these things when it depends. Personally I stopped wearing bras years ago because when you have heavy breasts bras turn your breasts into a "frontpack" due to the straps, and I was in a lot of shoulder pain. Corsets, which provide support from the bottom up, are way more comfortable to me, as is wearing no underwear at all. But I've also heard some women say they couldn't imagine going without one, so it probably varies from one person to the next.

I think the idea of bras is that the weight is mostly held by the wide bit that goes around your torso. The shoulder straps are for keeping everything the right shape and together. You're supposed to be able to slide your finger under your shoulder strap easily. I don't know, my breasts are only a little above average, but certainly all the people with larger breasts I know found it difficult to get bras alright, but were generally sorted after a good fitting and a proper sturdy bra.


Question: I'm not really that familiar with the exact differences between all the different labels (transexual, transgender, queer, etc). Could someone maybe give a few definitions? Of course there will be disagreement between what means what, but a general outline? Wikipedia was strangely enough rather unhelpful and confusing.


We do have our little dictionary of terms in the first post, if you haven't browsed through that.

[Mina Kobold]

Question: I'm not really that familiar with the exact differences between all the different labels (transexual, transgender, queer, etc). Could someone maybe give a few definitions? Of course there will be disagreement between what means what, but a general outline? Wikipedia was strangely enough rather unhelpful and confusing.



I... don't get it.:smallfrown: I sure like the idea of playing a game though, but what's with the mausoleum and the key? Is there a reference I didn't get?

The joke was that the only other way I could fix people remembering past me was to get rid of them, in this case by luring them into a mausoleum and locking them in there. Sorry, I did not mean to cause confusion. m(_ _)m

To make up for my horrible attempts at humour, I will point out that there is a list of definitions in our first post! And also that playing games is indeed fun. :3

[Lix Lorn]

Yeah, that was 120 lbs. ago as well. I was thin as a rake in school, and I'm... not any longer.
Excuses excuses. Make with the photo shoot! :smalltongue:


I feel a need to rant. I apologise if this is disjointed or repetitive, I'm not in a coherent and concise mood. My sexuality is kinda weird, I'm male but am only interested in sex from the female perspective. I fantasise exclusively about being female, thinking about sex from the male perspective completely fails to do it for me, it can't even hold my attention and after a few seconds of trying I'll start thinking about something else. A quick Google search shows that there are certainly other people who fantastise about being the opposite sex and who are assured that it's fine, it's just fantasy, doesn't really mean anything, carry on with your life. Which is great. But I haven't seen any reference to people who are only interested in being the opposite sex, and for me it kinda does affect real life, because, well, I'm just not interested in the idea of having sex in real life. I understand in a detached, logical sense that it would be enjoyable if I did, but detached logical thought really isn't enough to convince me to pursue sex.

But it's not that I don't have a sex drive, I do, and I want to want to have sex, because from what I hear sex is pretty good. I'll see someone attractive and think "damn, she's hot", but the thought of actually tapping that (to use crude, tasteless language) is... kinda icky, actually. But then, the thought of having sex as a woman is rather appealing, so I have the desire and I have the equipment, they just don't match. The idea of spending the rest of my life unfulfilled and mildly frustrated isn't exactly exciting. qqqqqqqqqqwoeajisdpaoairjoasdpaodem. That is my not-happy word. I'm not really sure where to go from here, so this seems as good a time as any to end this rant.

This has been a rather negative post, so to balance it out I found a picture of a dog wearing an AT-AT costume.

http://www.pr0gramm.com/data/images/2011/10/dog-in-an-atat-costume-640x480.jpg
That is an awesome dog.

I feel your pain here. I feel pretty much exactly the same, but I'm already trans. It does sound to me like it could be something like that, but I'm not an expert or anything.

[Astrella]

Wow! I leave 2 days and there's pages and pages of thread! In a new one, no less!

I want to look androgynous, but... sadly, my chest won't let me :smallfrown:

Hmmm, have you considered maybe checking out binding (if you haven't yet)?


Question: I'm not really that familiar with the exact differences between all the different labels (transexual, transgender, queer, etc). Could someone maybe give a few definitions? Of course there will be disagreement between what means what, but a general outline? Wikipedia was strangely enough rather unhelpful and confusing.

Well, the summary in the first post is a good start, but I can't really think of a summary that is as extensive as the one KindaBlue provided.


I mean, I understand wanting a more intimate and private setting for details such as would be discussed, especially as the odds of conversation diverging to technically non-thread worthy minutia are high. But generally, I understood that this sort of support was the point of the thread, and that it was considered better, in the end, to make it something to discuss openly rather than seem like a dirty secret?

And adjusting to a family member or friend who comes out is still a LGBTA+ issue - its one thing to be open to the concept, and another to remain so magnanimous when your life and relationship with someone is being torn apart by curve balls. Even more so when the general sentiment is "it's hard for them, so suck it up and deal with your problems later/you have no right to have problems with this".

Am I incorrect?

I think Asta was more asking the question in general; as in he just wondered if there are support groups for that as well in real / cyberspace.


I feel a need to rant. I apologise if this is disjointed or repetitive, I'm not in a coherent and concise mood. My sexuality is kinda weird, I'm male but am only interested in sex from the female perspective. I fantasise exclusively about being female, thinking about sex from the male perspective completely fails to do it for me, it can't even hold my attention and after a few seconds of trying I'll start thinking about something else. A quick Google search shows that there are certainly other people who fantastise about being the opposite sex and who are assured that it's fine, it's just fantasy, doesn't really mean anything, carry on with your life. Which is great. But I haven't seen any reference to people who are only interested in being the opposite sex, and for me it kinda does affect real life, because, well, I'm just not interested in the idea of having sex in real life. I understand in a detached, logical sense that it would be enjoyable if I did, but detached logical thought really isn't enough to convince me to pursue sex.

But it's not that I don't have a sex drive, I do, and I want to want to have sex, because from what I hear sex is pretty good. I'll see someone attractive and think "damn, she's hot", but the thought of actually tapping that (to use crude, tasteless language) is... kinda icky, actually. But then, the thought of having sex as a woman is rather appealing, so I have the desire and I have the equipment, they just don't match. The idea of spending the rest of my life unfulfilled and mildly frustrated isn't exactly exciting. qqqqqqqqqqwoeajisdpaoairjoasdpaodem. That is my not-happy word. I'm not really sure where to go from here, so this seems as good a time as any to end this rant.

This has been a rather negative post, so to balance it out I found a picture of a dog wearing an AT-AT costume.

http://www.pr0gramm.com/data/images/2011/10/dog-in-an-atat-costume-640x480.jpg

Well, the feeling is familiar for me; just the thought of having sex as male-bodied (and definitely sex directly involving the 'ahem' equipment down there) can give me a small panic attack / large feeling of unease.

Question: do you have this feeling in other situations as well? Or is it mostly a sexual thing? (because you know, just cause you are male doesn't mean you can only have PiV sex, gender role reversal and the such, what I mean is you can have sex as male bodied without necessarily having to feel male doing it.)

*insert a rant about how society could do with a much healthier attitude towards sex and a lot more communication about it in general; making it "taboo" but highly desirable is rather toxic, cause it precludes people from properly communication their desires and don'ts.*

Also; yay, Doggie!

Also, hi and welcome. *hugs* :smallsmile:

[Asta Kask]

You may want to avoid Amazon, (http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/12/29/40183) although I don't think I'll bother (not that I shop much online anyway).

[Kindablue]

Just don't read the rest of the thread, because it goes south fairly quickly... :smallfrown:

It's interesting (and troubling) because the skeptic movement is good at accepting homosexuals and bisexuals. But when a transgender person turns up, a small group of people begin talking about 'real' men and women and how that has to do with chromosomes, etc. It is a small group but as someone who wants the skeptics to be as accepting as possible it's really frustrating. Natalie who wrote that glossary left the boards soon afterwards because she was so frustrated...

Sorry, that was a rant. Please come to that board and try to make things better, but be aware that there may be difficulties. We're not a bad bunch, but... yeah, rambling, I am doing it.

I used to post there fairly frequently, but I left after growing sour to the community near the end of last year. I still lurk occasionally, though. There are a lot of smart people there, and the discussions are often pretty thought provocative. I've never read that whole thread in particular, but it looks like a good example of the wickedness of idle men (and women, of course), with just one or two posters actually arguing with her and almost none arguing against them.

The problem a lot of skeptics* have with trans people is, like everyone else, just ignorance. A lot of them probably also think that the division between biological and psychological gender is a bit too close to dualism and have a gut reaction to call the whole thing bull**** before thinking it through more completely.

* Beyond the forum; I remember an episode of the podcast in which Jay basically said the same thing about a trans man (who was pregnant or something; I can't remember why they were talking about it anymore) not actually being a man, only to have Rebecca pretty vehemently, and rightly, shoot him down.

[Asta Kask]

I think the main problem is mistaking technology for science. They'll* say something like "Chromosomes are the scientific method to determine sex, so no matter what transsexuals can't actually change their sex." And my and others' point is that there are many scientifical methods to determine sex; chromosome counting is just the method with all the gadgets.

Making a survey, asking people to self-identify as male or female (or intersex, if you know about them and feel the referees will let you get away with it) is a perfectly valid, scientific way to determine someone's sex.

*a small group of them, mind you. I'm not the only shining exception.

[Kindablue]

Yes, and unlike chromosome counting, surveys and self reporting are a soft scientific way for determining someone's sex.

And I do still identify myself with the movement, by the way.

[Astrella]

Not to say that if you go by chromosomes, there are quite a few more sexes then just XX and XY.

[KenderWizard]

On a semi-related note, I'm currently reading Caitlin Moran's semi-autobiographical feminist wordsplosion How To Be a Woman, which I got for Christmas. I don't agree with everything she says, but she talks about stuff in a funny and honest way, and, really, I'm just glad there's a current popular book that deals with women's issues in an accessible way. (She talks about periods, for one thing! :smallwink:)

Anyway, one problem I have with her is that she often says "Women are like this" or "Men are all..." or "One thing all women have in common is...". Now, unsurprisingly, the first people to be excluded are transwomen ("The one thing all women have - aside from a vagina obviously" or similar), but I get the impression that's just her not thinking about them (which isn't right, but is, in my view, less wrong than deliberately excluding them). The second group to be excluded are all women who don't live in first world countries, also unsurprisingly. But she also makes bizarre sweeping statements like saying all women have a collection of unworn or only-worn-once shoes hidden shamefully in their house. Or all women have elaborate fantasies about relationships and men never do. I know this isn't new or special, and in fact, this is a very tame example. I think things hit you worse when they're coming from someone who's on "your side".

Anyway, what I'm getting around to is; I'm starting to think the only thing "all women" share is the self-identification of "woman". And the same with men. You can't say "all women have vaginas" or "all women have XX chromosomes", or "all women are compassionate", or "all women have breasts", or "all women have a collection of shame-shoes", or "all women were little girls once" or "all women want a white wedding" or anything at all except "all women are women". Is that okay? I mean, is "woman" or "man" supposed to mean something more than that? (I think I'm having an entire-world identity crises here! :smalltongue:)

Wait, (trigger warning)
It might be true that "all women have a statistically higher chance of being a victim of sexual assault". :smallsigh:

Also, none of that is to detract from How To Be a Woman being a really cool and funny book that does talk about loads of important stuff, and anyone who's interested in being or being with (in any sense of the phrase) a woman should give it a look!

[H Birchgrove]

Or all women have elaborate fantasies about relationships and men never do.

How does she define "elaborate" and "relationships"? Because I consider my imaginary relationships to be quite elaborate, since they include polyamory, gender****ing (my censoring), fantastic elements, philosophical discussions etc. :smalltongue::smalleek::smallsigh:

[Kindablue]

Anyway, what I'm getting around to is; I'm starting to think the only thing "all women" share is the self-identification of "woman". And the same with men. You can't say "all women have vaginas" or "all women have XX chromosomes", or "all women are compassionate", or "all women have breasts", or "all women have a collection of shame-shoes", or "all women were little girls once" or "all women want a white wedding" or anything at all except "all women are women". Is that okay? I mean, is "woman" or "man" supposed to mean something more than that? (I think I'm having an entire-world identity crises here! :smalltongue:)

Wait, (trigger warning)
It might be true that "all women have a statistically higher chance of being a victim of sexual assault". :smallsigh:

"All women have a statistically higher chance of having a vagina" or "all women have a statistically higher chance of having been little girls once," etc, etc.

But other than that, I agree.

[Asta Kask]

Not to say that if you go by chromosomes, there are quite a few more sexes then just XX and XY.

Yeah, I was overlooking that to make things easier. Like intersex defined by other methods (like self-report), they are so rare that a person might say something like "While there are other possibilities, I'll restrict myself to this because it suits the purpose of the survey. I'm satisfied with classifying 99% of the population." If you wanted to be inclusive to all possibilities, you'd end up with a forteen-page survey containing one question.

Just look at the difficulties we have with including the entire alphabet in the thread name, to make sure no one feels left out. In the end I think we'll have to settle for a) not being all-inclusive, or b) introduce a catch-all term for "all the rest" (queer?).

[Reluctance]

Lanaya: My first reaction involves a relatively short, simple answer that would get the post scrubbed for graphic language. None of them directed at you. It's just easiest to get across how simple your situation is involves the use of mental images that pass the PG barrier.

Instead, I'll recommend you throw your question to someone like Dan Savage (http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove) or The Kinsey Institute (http://kinseyconfidential.org/). If you only fantasize about being a woman for sex play, they'll be able to explain just how unexceptional a kink that is.

[Mina Kobold]

I think the main problem is mistaking technology for science. They'll* say something like "Chromosomes are the scientific method to determine sex, so no matter what transsexuals can't actually change their sex." And my and others' point is that there are many scientifical methods to determine sex; chromosome counting is just the method with all the gadgets.

Making a survey, asking people to self-identify as male or female (or intersex, if you know about them and feel the referees will let you get away with it) is a perfectly valid, scientific way to determine someone's sex.

*a small group of them, mind you. I'm not the only shining exception.

Chromosomes:
I would correct them on that first one. Only Chromosome pair 23 determines anything about sex, and that is only the genotypes.

Sex happens to be a mix of phenotypes, however which makes that argument sound kind of like arguing that an individual do not have brown eyes with the genotype Brownblue on Chromosome 15 or do have brown eyes with BrownBrown even if external causes change them to another colour.

At least, that's how I understand it. Anyone with actual expertise are free to point out my own ignorance. :smallsmile:

Wouldn't the survey determine gender? I thought sex was the physical characteristics and not the mental one. Did I misunderstand?

Sorry for the inconvenience. m(_ _)m

PS: The comment about gadgets made me imagine cyborg Chromosomes. My mind is silly. :3

[Asta Kask]

Wouldn't the survey determine gender? I thought sex was the physical characteristics and not the mental one. Did I misunderstand?

Depends on what you ask. The study I've been involved in asked for "sex" - partly because if we asked for "gender" people wouldn't understand what the hell we meant.

In many cases it has no bearing on the study. It's there because a) it's always been there, and b) you need it for the 'demographics' table and you can't get it published without that table.


PS: The comment about gadgets made me imagine cyborg Chromosomes. My mind is silly. :3

Now I want cyber-chromosomes.

[Mystic Muse]

What about issues that are either so personal that people would be uncomfortable discussing them (even in relative anonymity) in what is essentially public, or issues that involve sex, religion, or politics?


For issues involving Sex, religion, or politics, you should take it off the board entirely. While it's unlikely the mods will search through your PM box at all, board rules still apply within PM.

[Asta Kask]

Excuses excuses. Make with the photo shoot! :smalltongue:

Pics or it didn't happen. No pics so it never happened.

ETA: I think I've posted about this before, but what the heck. James Randi explains why he came out. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QLt6EO3k28)

[KenderWizard]

How does she define "elaborate" and "relationships"? Because I consider my imaginary relationships to be quite elaborate, since they include polyamory, gender****ing (my censoring), fantastic elements, philosophical discussions etc. :smalltongue::smalleek::smallsigh:

She was talking about those in-depth long-term crushes a lot of people (I think) get, where you imagine yourself in a detailed and well-thought-out imaginary relationship with someone, complete with a story of how you met, future plans, pets, in-jokes, funny stories, etc. Not like a delusion, where you think it's going to happen any second, just that you've thought about being with this person so much and fantasised about all parts of the relationship so thoroughly, it's got almost as much detail as a real relationship might. Her ones seem particularly elaborate. I think this practice is especially common among, but not exclusive to, teenage girls.


"All women have a statistically higher chance of having a vagina" or "all women have a statistically higher chance of having been little girls once," etc, etc.

But other than that, I agree.

Huh, interesting point.

I think "women are statistically more likely to have vaginas" is different from "each woman is statistically more likely to suffer sexual assault". Those two are the same for a group of women (like the group All Women Ever), but different for an individual woman. My personal statistical chance of having a vagina is 1. :smallwink: I'm trying to think of something all women share. It's a subtle distinction, but I think it's there. Each woman in a group of women either has a vagina or doesn't have a vagina. For an outsider, zir chance of pulling out someone with a vagina is high. But for an individual woman, there's no chance about it, it's either there or not there. Whereas the potential for a sexual assault today is always a chance, and women, of all kinds, share a higher chance than do men. It still doesn't work perfectly, because it's not true that every single woman in the world is at higher risk than every single person who is not a woman. So, I'm back to "all women are women", really!

[Viera Champion]

She was talking about those in-depth long-term crushes a lot of people (I think) get, where you imagine yourself in a detailed and well-thought-out imaginary relationship with someone, complete with a story of how you met, future plans, pets, in-jokes, funny stories, etc. Not like a delusion, where you think it's going to happen any second, just that you've thought about being with this person so much and fantasised about all parts of the relationship so thoroughly, it's got almost as much detail as a real relationship might. Her ones seem particularly elaborate. I think this practice is especially common among, but not exclusive to, teenage girls.

Happened to me before.

[icastflare!]

She was talking about those in-depth long-term crushes a lot of people (I think) get, where you imagine yourself in a detailed and well-thought-out imaginary relationship with someone, complete with a story of how you met, future plans, pets, in-jokes, funny stories, etc. Not like a delusion, where you think it's going to happen any second, just that you've thought about being with this person so much and fantasised about all parts of the relationship so thoroughly, it's got almost as much detail as a real relationship might. Her ones seem particularly elaborate. I think this practice is especially common among, but not exclusive to, teenage girls.





I remember having one of these when I was younger. It fascinates me that I created such elaborate and thought-out scenarios involving my imaginary lover and I.

[Coidzor]

I don't get it :smallconfused:

Would you have me paint the ceiling of the Cistine Chapel with white wash?

[Mina Kobold]

ETA: I think I've posted about this before, but what the heck. James Randi explains why he came out. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QLt6EO3k28)

So he's a magician with a long white beard who happens to be homosexual and who is a very cool old guy? :3

I am now convinced that James Randi is Dumbledore. It is as certain as Cyber-Chromosomes. :smalltongue:

On another note; would imaginary relationships be similar to creating stories for fiction that you know you most likely will not get around to?

[Asta Kask]

He has a million-dollar prize that he offers to anyone who can demonstrate supernatural powers. It's funny how all the famous psychics, mediums, spoon-benders, etc. avoid him. You'd think they be flocking to it. But no. Because they know that Randi knows the tricks, and they know they'd be exposed.

Anyway, that's for another thread.

[Asta Kask]

I don't get it :smallconfused:

He thinks you're beautiful and sexy and a work of art just as you are.

[Lanaya]

So... you are attracted to women (and men?) but you can only find sex from the female perspective attractive? Am I getting it correctly?

Do you feel male?

Not really, but then, I don't feel female either.


Question: do you have this feeling in other situations as well? Or is it mostly a sexual thing?


I feel your pain here. I feel pretty much exactly the same, but I'm already trans. It does sound to me like it could be something like that, but I'm not an expert or anything.

Yeah... I dunno. I've always had a... curiosity, I guess, though that may not be strong enough a word, about what it would be like to be female, even when I was in my 'girls are gross' stage I liked the idea (though I would have died before I admitted it to anyone), and I certainly have no attachment to being male. I think that, on the whole, I would prefer to be female, but unless I could just magically wake up one day as a woman, I don't think I want it quite enough to spend all the time and money and go through the social awkwardness and surgery required.


Instead, I'll recommend you throw your question to someone like Dan Savage (http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove) or The Kinsey Institute (http://kinseyconfidential.org/). If you only fantasize about being a woman for sex play, they'll be able to explain just how unexceptional a kink that is.

Hmm, okay. I'll give that a shot.

[Lix Lorn]

Pics or it didn't happen. No pics so it never happened.
Clearly it needs to happen! And there should be pics of it! :smalltongue::smalltongue:

[turkishproverb]

The place where the sun doesn't shine? :smallsmile:

Metaphorically.

[noparlpf]

On a semi-related note, I'm currently reading Caitlin Moran's semi-autobiographical feminist wordsplosion How To Be a Woman, which I got for Christmas. I don't agree with everything she says, but she talks about stuff in a funny and honest way, and, really, I'm just glad there's a current popular book that deals with women's issues in an accessible way. (She talks about periods, for one thing! :smallwink:)

Anyway, one problem I have with her is that she often says "Women are like this" or "Men are all..." or "One thing all women have in common is...". Now, unsurprisingly, the first people to be excluded are transwomen ("The one thing all women have - aside from a vagina obviously" or similar), but I get the impression that's just her not thinking about them (which isn't right, but is, in my view, less wrong than deliberately excluding them). The second group to be excluded are all women who don't live in first world countries, also unsurprisingly. But she also makes bizarre sweeping statements like saying all women have a collection of unworn or only-worn-once shoes hidden shamefully in their house. Or all women have elaborate fantasies about relationships and men never do. I know this isn't new or special, and in fact, this is a very tame example. I think things hit you worse when they're coming from someone who's on "your side".

Anyway, what I'm getting around to is; I'm starting to think the only thing "all women" share is the self-identification of "woman". And the same with men. You can't say "all women have vaginas" or "all women have XX chromosomes", or "all women are compassionate", or "all women have breasts", or "all women have a collection of shame-shoes", or "all women were little girls once" or "all women want a white wedding" or anything at all except "all women are women". Is that okay? I mean, is "woman" or "man" supposed to mean something more than that? (I think I'm having an entire-world identity crises here! :smalltongue:)

Wait, (trigger warning)
It might be true that "all women have a statistically higher chance of being a victim of sexual assault". :smallsigh:

Also, none of that is to detract from How To Be a Woman being a really cool and funny book that does talk about loads of important stuff, and anyone who's interested in being or being with (in any sense of the phrase) a woman should give it a look!

Sounds neat. It's really sad, though, that so many feminist writers (and everyone else too) forget about other groups due to their own privilege. It's like they are all unaware of the existence of non-white, non-heterosexual, non-cissexual people. And I do agree that it's better to exclude by oversight than by intent.
As far as generalizations go, I'd just say that all X are X and all Y are Y. Some X may be Y and some Y may be X, but that doesn't mean it's okay to generalize that all X are Y. So all women are women by self-identification, and that's that. (Oh yeah, and they're all people too. And basic generalizations about organisms like "need sustenance" or whatever apply. But that's beside the point.)


He has a million-dollar prize that he offers to anyone who can demonstrate supernatural powers. It's funny how all the famous psychics, mediums, spoon-benders, etc. avoid him. You'd think they be flocking to it. But no. Because they know that Randi knows the tricks, and they know they'd be exposed.

Anyway, that's for another thread.

Does the ability to never, ever guess right when there's the choice of turning left or right count?

[Kindablue]

She was talking about those in-depth long-term crushes a lot of people (I think) get, where you imagine yourself in a detailed and well-thought-out imaginary relationship with someone, complete with a story of how you met, future plans, pets, in-jokes, funny stories, etc. Not like a delusion, where you think it's going to happen any second, just that you've thought about being with this person so much and fantasised about all parts of the relationship so thoroughly, it's got almost as much detail as a real relationship might. Her ones seem particularly elaborate. I think this practice is especially common among, but not exclusive to, teenage girls.
I have enough trouble with the normal kind, thank you very much.



Huh, interesting point.

I think "women are statistically more likely to have vaginas" is different from "each woman is statistically more likely to suffer sexual assault". Those two are the same for a group of women (like the group All Women Ever), but different for an individual woman. My personal statistical chance of having a vagina is 1. :smallwink: I'm trying to think of something all women share. It's a subtle distinction, but I think it's there. Each woman in a group of women either has a vagina or doesn't have a vagina. For an outsider, zir chance of pulling out someone with a vagina is high. But for an individual woman, there's no chance about it, it's either there or not there. Whereas the potential for a sexual assault today is always a chance, and women, of all kinds, share a higher chance than do men. It still doesn't work perfectly, because it's not true that every single woman in the world is at higher risk than every single person who is not a woman. So, I'm back to "all women are women", really!


Hmm. I think I misunderstood then. I thought you meant "being a victim of sexual assault" as a condition (for lack of a better word) that any particular woman has right now ("having been a victim of sexual assault" is what I read, I think, which is binary), and not "being sexually assaulted at any moment."

[H Birchgrove]

She was talking about those in-depth long-term crushes a lot of people (I think) get, where you imagine yourself in a detailed and well-thought-out imaginary relationship with someone, complete with a story of how you met, future plans, pets, in-jokes, funny stories, etc. Not like a delusion, where you think it's going to happen any second, just that you've thought about being with this person so much and fantasised about all parts of the relationship so thoroughly, it's got almost as much detail as a real relationship might. Her ones seem particularly elaborate. I think this practice is especially common among, but not exclusive to, teenage girls.
Aha, so the relationship is imaginary, but not the partner?


On another note; would imaginary relationships be similar to creating stories for fiction that you know you most likely will not get around to?
My imaginary relationships and the latest of my unpublished stories go hand in hand...

[Coidzor]

She was talking about those in-depth long-term crushes a lot of people (I think) get, where you imagine yourself in a detailed and well-thought-out imaginary relationship with someone, complete with a story of how you met, future plans, pets, in-jokes, funny stories, etc. Not like a delusion, where you think it's going to happen any second, just that you've thought about being with this person so much and fantasised about all parts of the relationship so thoroughly, it's got almost as much detail as a real relationship might. Her ones seem particularly elaborate. I think this practice is especially common among, but not exclusive to, teenage girls.

That's just horrifying. I knew there was a reason those things skeeved me out.

[Lix Lorn]

Aha, so the relationship is imaginary, but not the partner?
Oh, if that's what they meant, then no, I don't do that, but I regularly want to. I normally get about twenty seconds in before going 'Bad Lixie! No happy fantasies! Stick with cold hard reality!'

Stupid conscience always gets in the way of a good time.

[Nix Nihila]

Wow. Lots of stuff I want to reply to.

Clothing:


*Grumbles*

Why does everyone have a problem with black clothing, or at least associate it with the wearer being unhappy in some fashion? Usually I'm quite cheerful, and my standard outfit is completely black. Is that really that uncommon? :smallconfused:

No. Gothic fashion is usually black, so that might be part of it (although there shouldn't really be a correlation between gothic fashion and unhappiness), but most black fashion is not gothic. I don't really find that most people associate wearing black with unhappiness (although it does on occasion happen, and it happened more when I was in high school), but as with many things, I'm sure that it's regional.


Re: Black clothing and angst
All the "emo" kids at my school are the happiest people I know. Heck, I'm wearing dark jeans and a black t-shirt right now, and I'm usually (aggressively) happy. If that was a joke, ok. If that was serious, I disagree.

I think emo applies to more than just fashion (it originated in music, didn't it?), and generally includes a sort of culture of loneliness, but I might be wrong.



I always thought that would be balanced out by women looking so very much better in men's clothing than men. And by the gender divide in clothing being inherently silly, but that's because I've always had a waifish figure.

I think I can sympathize though; if a kilt is any indication, skirts and dresses are way more comfortable and fun to wear than pants or other bifurcated garments.

Hmm.. I think the cut of men's clothing is generally rather unflattering on the typical female figure. I don't quite see what that has to do with my post though. I was mostly lamenting about the psychological discomfort that I associated with men's clothing (especially formal clothing).



Also this thread makes me feel unloved because I happen to like ties and male formal clothing in general. v.v

Uh... That's all I have to say for now. <.<

Nothing wrong with liking them. My hatred of them mostly comes from being forced into them, although I do think they're really rather uninteresting.



It's interesting (and troubling) because the skeptic movement is good at accepting homosexuals and bisexuals. But when a transgender person turns up, a small group of people begin talking about 'real' men and women and how that has to do with chromosomes, etc. It is a small group but as someone who wants the skeptics to be as accepting as possible it's really frustrating. Natalie who wrote that glossary left the boards soon afterwards because she was so frustrated...


Ugh... One of the reasons I am not involved in skeptic forums anymore. There's also the occasional person who talks about how nature "wants" men and women to be in sexual relationships, therefore homosexuality is wrong. :smallyuk:

The only skeptics I really interact with much online nowadays are the LGBT and feminist skeptics. Usually they're more thoughtful about those sorts of things.



Anyway, what I'm getting around to is; I'm starting to think the only thing "all women" share is the self-identification of "woman". And the same with men. You can't say "all women have vaginas" or "all women have XX chromosomes", or "all women are compassionate", or "all women have breasts", or "all women have a collection of shame-shoes", or "all women were little girls once" or "all women want a white wedding" or anything at all except "all women are women". Is that okay? I mean, is "woman" or "man" supposed to mean something more than that? (I think I'm having an entire-world identity crises here! :smalltongue:)

I agree with you, and this is nitpicking a bit, plus I think you already realize what I'm about to say, but it's really quite useless to say "All women identify as female" when you're defining a woman as someone who identifies as female.

Also, this is quite unrelated, but while I was skimming through the last few pages, I kept stopping where people were responding to Lix, because I thought I saw my name. It was mildly confusing (and disappointing, here I thought I had suddenly become super popular! :smalltongue:).

[bluewind95]

Hmmm, have you considered maybe checking out binding (if you haven't yet)?


Yeah. It's just... I'm not sure my family would be very accepting of this. It's not that they're homophobes or anything, but... they don't even really accept my asexuality. They just keep saying I haven't met Mr. Right yet. It doesn't work that way, but...

... Anyways, I've been poking around the whole subject of me not feeling very feminine and they seem to think this is a shortcoming of mine. I've also told them I hate my curves and they tell me I'm just being silly. So if I started binding... I don't know how they'd take it. And I'm not sure I really want to deal with that. If I were naturally flat, as I'd LOVE to be... it'd be different.

Androgyny... oh, how I wish I had thee.

[noparlpf]

Just now I was reading "Rain", and I think I've been hanging out with my webcomic-reading friend too much lately because I started shipping in my head, which isn't something I usually do.
Anyway, it led me start wondering what it would be like if two transsexuals (without surgery) got into a heterosexual relationship and moved on to a sexual relationship (you know, because many couples eventually want children). And then I had this big mental shudder because it felt really wrong. I mean, the girl with guy parts and the guy with girl parts and whatnot. Like, how weird must it feel to try to have sex using a penis when you're a girl? (And vice versa.)
(And my mental shudder was twice as big as usual when faced with human sexuality, so I think this was more than just my usual personal aversion to sex. Maybe this is that human "empathy" stuff?)
So I'm spending New Year's Eve (even though New Year's is usually in September) home alone listening to music, reading "Rain", and drinking a mix of vodka and orange soda (which is pretty interesting) just because both were there. It's pretty chill.

[Roxxy]

How come we had to get a new thread?

[Mutant Sheep]

How come we had to get a new thread?

Threads can only go to 50 pages. Well, I think they potentially CAN go over 51 pages, but its a real strain on the system. Also, *offers waves and hugs to everyone*

[supernerd]

I think I read Rain on Thursday. 1-5 and 11-6. It's pretty awesome, but I can't drink.

But I'm really impressed with it, though.

It kinda made me feel guilty, 'cause I just AM gay, I've never had to put up with much, never had to fight for it, and definitely never had to try so hard at it. It's pretty humbling, at least for me, and makes me grateful for my own situation, realizing how much harder it could be. But there are so many things about it that make me smile.

It looks like this year is gonna be about fixing all the problems within myself I can find (like ungratefulness, disrespectfulness, high-and-mighty, excetera). Granted I won't find/solve them all, after all, I gotta have faults and quirks or I'd be boring.

Edit: I'll take a hug

[Roxxy]

I wonder. Does anyone know of any fantasy novels with LGBT protagonists?

[supernerd]

I wonder. Does anyone know of any fantasy novels with LGBT protagonists?

Got started on one, but not going anywhere, so probably a bust. And I found that depending on what you're looking for you can find a long series of short stories as chapters or parts to a single story in a compilative database on some website.

[Remmirath]

I wonder. Does anyone know of any fantasy novels with LGBT protagonists?

Here's what I can think of off the top of my head... no guarantees that names are exactly right or the descriptions useful, considering how tired I am, but they're at least close.

The Nighrunners Series by Lynn Flewelling - Both the main protagonists. Probably both bisexual (both male). A few minor characters, too. I put this one first, because this series if my favourite of the lot - I like the plot and characters and all. I'm extremely fond of the first two books in the series, fairly fond of the third, a bit lukewarm on the fourth, and more fond of the fifth than the fourth.

The Fire's Stone by Tanya Huff - Two out of the three main characters (both male). A rather short book, but a pretty good one. I personally wasn't terribly fond of the characters, but they were at least interesting.

The Last Herald-Mage Trilogy and a few other books by Mercedes Lackey - The main character (male). Honestly, while I loved these books when I was younger, there are some things about her writing style that bug me these days. Not to say they're bad. If you're less picky than me, they're probably fine. The other books, I don't remember which ones they are. It's been a while since I read them. (I've only ever read her Valdemar books, so they'd be some of those.)

The Shattered Chain, Thendara House, City of Sorcery, The Heritage of Hastur, and some others by Marion Zimmer Bradley - I do enjoy the whole Darkover series, and as I recall, there's at least some allusion to LGBT stuff in many of them. Those are the ones I remember where it's to do with one of the main characters of the story. For the first three, the two main characters and a few other minor characters (all female), and for the last one the main character and a couple other characters (all male).

The God Eaters by Jesse Hajicek - Sort of ... fantasy/alternate world/western setting? May not be fantasy enough, I suppose? The main characters are I believe both gay (and male). It's not particularly long or particularly short, and I like it pretty well.

I'm sure I've read some others at some point, but they're not coming to mind. Most of the others I think I borrowed from my mom, so I might be able to figure out what they were next time I'm at her place.

[Heliomance]

Well played!
I've seen the clasp issue beaten by putting it on backwards around the belly, rotating it, sliding it up the torso and then putting everything into position.

The thing is, I've seen this done. But even writing that description out, my response is "that's utter bollocks, doesn't it go against the design of the garment?" so now I'm not so sure. Maybe she was just really limber/luckily endowed?
I've seen it done, done it myself. It works perfectly fine. Not sure where you think the problem is?



Have you examined exactly how you would be more androgynous? Specifically, what things you could change about you that would give the desired effect? Less is often more, I find, and a clear concept does wonders. And it's a lot easier to do when you think "change X, Y and Z" than "change stuff for a more generally androgynous look".*

I was going to start with shaving my beard off and getting a haircut, get an MtF friend of mine to come and help choose hairstyles. After that work on my wardrobe, learn makeup and maybe start tucking.


He thinks you're beautiful and sexy and a work of art just as you are.
:smallredface: Aww, you guys *shuffles*

[Serpentine]

I wonder. Does anyone know of any fantasy novels with LGBT protagonists?Tamora Pierce's Winding Circle series does, and several gay secondary characters. For the most part her characters are straight and cis, but the subject does come up, and I think is handled pretty well. But it's definitely not a big thing in the books, so probably not what you're after.

[KenderWizard]

Happy New Year!


Sounds neat. It's really sad, though, that so many feminist writers (and everyone else too) forget about other groups due to their own privilege. It's like they are all unaware of the existence of non-white, non-heterosexual, non-cissexual people. And I do agree that it's better to exclude by oversight than by intent.

Yes, it is a common problem. I might be creating my own bias (by preferentially staying with blogs that don't annoy me) but I think modern feminist blogs are better for it than traditional feminist writing or other modern things. Once you get to grips with privilege as an idea, it sticks in your head, I think. Like the way a lot of people say they had a moment where they noticed sexism for the first time, and once you start thinking feminist things, it's really hard to stop noticing sexism. Even if you want to just take one evening off to enjoy Iron Man, dammit!



Does the ability to never, ever guess right when there's the choice of turning left or right count?

Only if you can prove it in a laboratory environment!



Hmm. I think I misunderstood then. I thought you meant "being a victim of sexual assault" as a condition (for lack of a better word) that any particular woman has right now ("having been a victim of sexual assault" is what I read, I think, which is binary), and not "being sexually assaulted at any moment."

Ah, gotcha. I probably could have phrased it better! Yeah, it's the future chance I meant to refer to.


Aha, so the relationship is imaginary, but not the partner?


I think generally, yes, it is an imaginary relationship with an existing person or character. I have to imagine some people do also come up with the lover as well, but generally, I think it's either someone you know, some famous person, or some character.


That's just horrifying. I knew there was a reason those things skeeved me out.

What things? Imaginary relationships?



I agree with you, and this is nitpicking a bit, plus I think you already realize what I'm about to say, but it's really quite useless to say "All women identify as female" when you're defining a woman as someone who identifies as female.


That's kind of my point; the only thing I can come up with is a meaningless tautology!

[SiuiS]

Hmm.. I think the cut of men's clothing is generally rather unflattering on the typical female figure. I don't quite see what that has to do with my post though. I was mostly lamenting about the psychological discomfort that I associated with men's clothing (especially formal clothing).
[...]
Nothing wrong with liking them. My hatred of them mostly comes from being forced into them, although I do think they're really rather uninteresting.


Hm. I'm having trouble articulating what I meant without it seeming even more awkward on my end, so now I'm worried I should have stopped before I prompted a response :smallredface:
Apologies. Being overly-conversational in threads with specific topics is inept those things I'm trying to stop doing ><

Um. Depending on the strength and reason for the aversion, I've found the potential upsides could often balance things out or turn the tables entirely. Only when looked at when not under the gun though, as during the disliked event one's discomfort is forefront in the mind. And I have always looked best in formal wear that feminizes my figure so I've never really considered The effect of any other cut of clothes ^^"


I've seen it done, done it myself. It works perfectly fine. Not sure where you think the problem is?

after describing it, it just seemed silly. A garment designed around stability being useable when donned 'improperly' sounds off to me. It was a half-thought I threw in to cover myself in case someone took the opposite stance of telling me that it was silly - a precaution because I don't really know you guys. I suppose I should apologize in advance, as I'm vaguely nervous and get wishy-washy.



I was going to start with shaving my beard off and getting a haircut, get an MtF friend of mine to come and help choose hairstyles. After that work on my wardrobe, learn makeup and maybe start tucking.

Sounds like a good plan, then.

And I'm sorry Heliomance. I was caught between wanting to say "no your hair is pretty! D:" and encouraging' ya. I edited the whole post back and forth enough that it ended up not really being anything at all... I'd have corrected it but by then I'm sure it had already been read...

So! You've got a plan, and backup. Good winds and smooth sailing, mate! :smallbiggrin:

[Heliomance]

after describing it, it just seemed silly. A garment designed around stability being useable when donned 'improperly' sounds off to me. It was a half-thought I threw in to cover myself in case someone took the opposite stance of telling me that it was silly - a precaution because I don't really know you guys. I suppose I should apologize in advance, as I'm vaguely nervous and get wishy-washy.




It's not really being donned improperly, it ends up in the same place.

[H Birchgrove]

I wonder. Does anyone know of any fantasy novels with LGBT protagonists?
If Science Fiction suffice, there's Odd John by Olaf Stapledon. (He did inspire C.S. Lewis to write the Space Trilogy.)

[noparlpf]

Yes, it is a common problem. I might be creating my own bias (by preferentially staying with blogs that don't annoy me) but I think modern feminist blogs are better for it than traditional feminist writing or other modern things. Once you get to grips with privilege as an idea, it sticks in your head, I think. Like the way a lot of people say they had a moment where they noticed sexism for the first time, and once you start thinking feminist things, it's really hard to stop noticing sexism. Even if you want to just take one evening off to enjoy Iron Man, dammit!

It's definitely hard to ignore it now that I've noticed it. Watching movies, the odd comment in a book, stuff like that. Now it's not just poor grammar that disrupts the flow of a book for me, it's all these -isms too.


Only if you can prove it in a laboratory environment!

I cannot remember a single time that I have guessed properly when it was just a guess. And I'm the designated navigator when we go on adventures, so I end up making a lot of guesses when we come to forks or crossroads.

[KenderWizard]

It's definitely hard to ignore it now that I've noticed it. Watching movies, the odd comment in a book, stuff like that. Now it's not just poor grammar that disrupts the flow of a book for me, it's all these -isms too.

It's the mildly irritating price we pay for being aware of our culture's shortcomings, I suppose! The long game solution (making everyone aware of this and being part of a sea change as our culture comes ever closer to true equality and fairness for everyone) is way better than the short game solution (turning our brains off to it all) though.



I cannot remember a single time that I have guessed properly when it was just a guess. And I'm the designated navigator when we go on adventures, so I end up making a lot of guesses when we come to forks or crossroads.

Huh. Invest in a map! :smalltongue:

[noparlpf]

It's the mildly irritating price we pay for being aware of our culture's shortcomings, I suppose! The long game solution (making everyone aware of this and being part of a sea change as our culture comes ever closer to true equality and fairness for everyone) is way better than the short game solution (turning our brains off to it all) though.

I agree. I'm willing to trade my own irritation as I stumble over a passage in a book or movie for an ultimate feminist utopia.


Huh. Invest in a map! :smalltongue:

My friend (he's the one with the car) has a GPS. We still manage to get lost. The other day we drove to a friend's birthday shindig at like 5 AM (we were a tad early), and in the course of a less than two hour drive we got lost at least three or four times.

[Coidzor]

What things? Imaginary relationships?

Well, those are horrifying and trigger all of my "that's just wrong," alarums, but I was talking about teenage girls in this instance as far as skeeving me out goes.


That's kind of my point; the only thing I can come up with is a meaningless tautology!

Well, that's what happens when you decide to go with the vaguest, most true definition of womanhood. Just doesn't really roll off of the tongue.

[noparlpf]

I know some really great teenage girls, but then there are the cookie-cutter girls, so to speak, back in high school, and they scare me. They remind me of Brave New World for some reason and that book was one of the scariest things I've ever read.

[Astrella]

An MTF friend of mine refers to them as "chesticles" ^_^

People, give me a kick to go get a haircut and shave and actually start trying to present as androgynous in the new year. I haven't had a haircut in over four years, the idea is oddly intimidating. I kinda want to get an actual androgynous style, as opposed to just long.

Best of luck with this. I don't really have any advice cause I haven't really done much with my gender expression myself.


:smallredface: Aww, you guys *shuffles*

*checks You-thread*
Well, you are a quite good-looking specimen. ;)


Yes, it is a common problem. I might be creating my own bias (by preferentially staying with blogs that don't annoy me) but I think modern feminist blogs are better for it than traditional feminist writing or other modern things. Once you get to grips with privilege as an idea, it sticks in your head, I think. Like the way a lot of people say they had a moment where they noticed sexism for the first time, and once you start thinking feminist things, it's really hard to stop noticing sexism. Even if you want to just take one evening off to enjoy Iron Man, dammit!

Heh, I know the feel. I do think it's a good thing though; and an extra incentive to aim for a society in which you don't have to notice stuff like this.

Tangentially related rant:
So my mum bought me the latest album of "Suske en Wiske" (Spike and Suzy in English, the longest running Flemish comic series.); and I was really said cause it had a lot of racial portrayals of black people (portraying them very like caricatures (thick red lips and the like). This really saddened me, because it used to be such a good series under previous writers. It covered a lot of things; sci-fi, family struggles, history (time-travel), etc. It really didn't shy away from treating societal issues (poverty, discrimination, the environment, etc... ) and sensitive matter and thought me a lot about other cultures without resorting to stereotypes. It's really thought me a lot of good values and had quite an influence on who I am right now. It's just really sad how it has fallen from that to a comic of cheap bad jokes and stereotypes. :smallfrown:

[KenderWizard]

Well, those are horrifying and trigger all of my "that's just wrong," alarums, but I was talking about teenage girls in this instance as far as skeeving me out goes.

Aw. :smallfrown: That's a bit of an unfair generalisation, surely? The spectrum of teenage girls is only a bit narrower than the spectrum of humanity. In fairness, I get unsettled by groups of uniformed teenage girls (because I assume they're coming for me, to push me and laugh at my clothes) but that's an irrational reaction caused by bad experiences.



Well, that's what happens when you decide to go with the vaguest, most true definition of womanhood. Just doesn't really roll off of the tongue.

Well, yes. I suppose I had been assuming that women as defined by the most true definition of womanhood would share more than that. It's okay that we don't, though.




Heh, I know the feel. I do think it's a good thing though; and an extra incentive to aim for a society in which you don't have to notice stuff like this.

Tangentially related rant:
So my mum bought me the latest album of "Suske en Wiske" (Spike and Suzy in English, the longest running Flemish comic series.); and I was really said cause it had a lot of racial portrayals of black people (portraying them very like caricatures (thick red lips and the like). This really saddened me, because it used to be such a good series under previous writers. It covered a lot of things; sci-fi, family struggles, history (time-travel), etc. It really didn't shy away from treating societal issues (poverty, discrimination, the environment, etc... ) and sensitive matter and thought me a lot about other cultures without resorting to stereotypes. It's really thought me a lot of good values and had quite an influence on who I am right now. It's just really sad how it has fallen from that to a comic of cheap bad jokes and stereotypes. :smallfrown:

Exactly! Also, that sucks about the comic series. :smallfrown: Hate when that kind of thing happens.

[Coidzor]

Aw. :smallfrown: That's a bit of an unfair generalisation, surely?

Not really seeing who it is unfair to, exactly, as the world runs a lot more smoothly so long as teenaged girl children and I do not achieve proximity. And it's less of a generalization, more of a recollection of an observation of the general class from my youth. Always got a dangerous and/or creepy vibe from the general female teenager, usually at least after prolonged contact, even when I was a teenager myself.

Made finding a date on Friday night kind of annoying.

Or if you're talking about the fantasies, then, no, I don't think so. I believe crushes to be generally bad for one's self and to actually build up elaborate fantasy scenarios in one's head about meeting and establishing a relationship, well, that just exacerbates the general creepiness of a crush to me.


The spectrum of teenage girls is only a bit narrower than the spectrum of humanity.

Eh? :smallconfused: Teenagers are quite a bit narrower than the spectrum of humanity because they're under the most pressure to conform and haven't started to live their own lives yet in many cases, and girl children are put under even more pressure than boy children, extending more overtly into how they must think even, unless something drastic has changed for the better in the past 5 years.

Most of them haven't even started getting interesting yet, and an unlucky few will go their entire lives laboring under such inhumane conditions. :smallsigh:


In fairness, I get unsettled by groups of uniformed teenage girls (because I assume they're coming for me, to push me and laugh at my clothes) but that's an irrational reaction caused by bad experiences.

I'm unsettled by any person or group of people that strives to be identical.


Well, yes. I suppose I had been assuming that women as defined by the most true definition of womanhood would share more than that. It's okay that we don't, though.

You can probably see why people who like things to be neat and tidy might get a bit flummoxed by it all a bit better though.


Exactly! Also, that sucks about the comic series. :smallfrown: Hate when that kind of thing happens.

Kind of surprised really. Generally things go from racist, minstrel show caricatures during the bad old days and then evolve into reasonably competent portrayals of other races as fellow human beings because society's changes force them to do so, rather than the other way around. Astrella, are you sure you didn't just come across some older stories from the bad old days that had been reprinted?

[Lix Lorn]

Just now I was reading "Rain", and I think I've been hanging out with my webcomic-reading friend too much lately because I started shipping in my head, which isn't something I usually do.
Anyway, it led me start wondering what it would be like if two transsexuals (without surgery) got into a heterosexual relationship and moved on to a sexual relationship (you know, because many couples eventually want children). And then I had this big mental shudder because it felt really wrong. I mean, the girl with guy parts and the guy with girl parts and whatnot. Like, how weird must it feel to try to have sex using a penis when you're a girl? (And vice versa.)
(And my mental shudder was twice as big as usual when faced with human sexuality, so I think this was more than just my usual personal aversion to sex. Maybe this is that human "empathy" stuff?)
Well, in my case, it just wouldn't happen. I have absolutely no interest, desire, or plans in having sex until everything down below is sorted out.


Eh? :smallconfused: Teenagers are quite a bit narrower than the spectrum of humanity because they're under the most pressure to conform and haven't started to live their own lives yet in many cases, and girl children are put under even more pressure than boy children, extending more overtly into how they must think even, unless something drastic has changed for the better in the past 5 years.

Most of them haven't even started getting interesting yet, and an unlucky few will go their entire lives laboring under such inhumane conditions. :smallsigh:
Um. No. That doesn't make their spectrum narrower. It just means more of them are in the middle of the spectrum rather than outliers.

[Astrella]

Kind of surprised really. Generally things go from racist, minstrel show caricatures during the bad old days and then evolve into reasonably competent portrayals of other races as fellow human beings because society's changes force them to do so, rather than the other way around. Astrella, are you sure you didn't just come across some older stories from the bad old days that had been reprinted?

Hm hm. I'm sure. The comic has a had a shift in authors several times since the awesome first and second author, so it's hardly recognizable still except for sharing the main cast.

[noparlpf]

Well, in my case, it just wouldn't happen. I have absolutely no interest, desire, or plans in having sex until everything down below is sorted out.

That's pretty much what I figured. It just wouldn't be right, right?

[Lix Lorn]

Right.
tenchars

[Astrella]

That's pretty much what I figured. It just wouldn't be right, right?

Yeah...

Well, there's sexytimes stuff I could do without triggering dysphoria I think, but it wouldn't really involve the equipment down there... (though probably not the best subject to discuss on these boards.)

On another topic: I've come across quite a few trans* mostly, but also more general LGBT related resources over time, so I was wondering if it might be useful to put a library of useful resources in the original post. (Though some of the interesting stuff is not that SFW, so I'm not sure if we're allowed to link it on here.)

[Lix Lorn]

On another topic: I've come across quite a few trans* mostly, but also more general LGBT related resources over time, so I was wondering if it might be useful to put a library of useful resources in the original post. (Though some of the interesting stuff is not that SFW, so I'm not sure if we're allowed to link it on here.)
oh hey that's my job atm

If people think something's important enough to first post, tell me I guess?

[Coidzor]

On another topic: I've come across quite a few trans* mostly, but also more general LGBT related resources over time, so I was wondering if it might be useful to put a library of useful resources in the original post. (Though some of the interesting stuff is not that SFW, so I'm not sure if we're allowed to link it on here.)

If there's a general hub of knowledge that later directs to that subject matter, but does not feature it explicitly on the page linked to, that's safe enough to ask a mod for clarification rather than being an obvious nay.

And, yeah, I'd say that'd be a worthwhile thing to have.

[Astrella]

If there's a general hub of knowledge that later directs to that subject matter, but does not feature it explicitly on the page linked to, that's safe enough to ask a mod for clarification rather than being an obvious nay.

And, yeah, I'd say that'd be a worthwhile thing to have.

Lix Lorn: Not really putting forth an argument that doesn't just have it be both, really.

Yep, pm'd a mod about it.

[Serpentine]

Or if you're talking about the fantasies, then, no, I don't think so. I believe crushes to be generally bad for one's self and to actually build up elaborate fantasy scenarios in one's head about meeting and establishing a relationship, well, that just exacerbates the general creepiness of a crush to me.First of all, I disagree entirely with your assessment of crushes. They're entirely normal and healthy, and even downright fun. It only gets "bad for one's self" when it reaches the point of obsession and/or starts interfering with other aspects of one's life, and at that point it's pretty much extended beyond the perview of a crush.
And "elaborate fantasy scenarios" are merely that: fantasies. It's no more "creepy" than having fantasies about being a dragon or whatever. They're just Mills and Boone books one makes up in one's own head, as fantasy-fantasies are just fantasy stories one makes up in one's own head.

As for teenage girls... I do have an aversion to them, on the whole. They're pretty weird and annoying (as a broad generalisation). But then, that goes for teenage boys, too - just in different ways.

[Coidzor]

First of all, I disagree entirely with your assessment of crushes. They're entirely normal and healthy, and even downright fun. It only gets "bad for one's self" when it reaches the point of obsession and/or starts interfering with other aspects of one's life, and at that point it's pretty much extended beyond the perview of a crush.

They always seem to have already done so if they become worth mentioning is the devil of the thing though. I must admit though, I've never heard of anyone calling them fun before, so color me surprised. I suppose I live in too much of a sexually repressed/frustrated area then?


And "elaborate fantasy scenarios" are merely that: fantasies. It's no more "creepy" than having fantasies about being a dragon or whatever. They're just Mills and Boone books one makes up in one's own head, as fantasy-fantasies are just fantasy stories one makes up in one's own head.

Imagining being a dragon certainly seems rather different from imagining having sex with someone in a non-puerile fashion. It's fairly different from imagining having sex with someone in a puerile fashion too, but, c'est la vie. Just doesn't have the same sort of reduction of person to meat puppet vibe...

Actually going to the point of spending enough time or devoted enough mental resources to have constructed elaborate fantasy scenarios sounds like one has gone into obsession territory anyway.

[Lady Serpentine]

Actually going to the point of spending enough time or devoted enough mental resources to have constructed elaborate fantasy scenarios sounds like one has gone into obsession territory anyway.

What is your definition of 'enough mental resources' or 'enough time'? Are you saying that authors, or the people who design game settings, are obsessed? :smallconfused:

[Eldest]

I have daydreams. Does that make me obsessed? They usually repeat, or have general trends that they all share.

[Serpentine]

They always seem to have already done so if they become worth mentioning is the devil of the thing though. I must admit though, I've never heard of anyone calling them fun before, so color me surprised. I suppose I live in too much of a sexually repressed/frustrated area then?



Imagining being a dragon certainly seems rather different from imagining having sex with someone in a non-puerile fashion. It's fairly different from imagining having sex with someone in a puerile fashion too, but, c'est la vie. Just doesn't have the same sort of reduction of person to meat puppet vibe...

Actually going to the point of spending enough time or devoted enough mental resources to have constructed elaborate fantasy scenarios sounds like one has gone into obsession territory anyway.No more than my spending weeks constructing an elaborate narrative of myself as a drakaina going on a long quest to free the fairy queen. And yes, that is a real one. I even got to the end of it, which is unusual for my stories.

Basically, as usual, you're reading way, WAAAAAY too much into things. Fantasies are fantasies, simple as that. Some people read Anne McCaffery, some people read Mills and Boone - some people make up stories of dragons, some people make up stories of romance. They're exactly the same.

And yes, at least for me - but I'm pretty sure for plenty of other people - crushes are lots of fun. I'm currently relishing a little one I have for a guy I saw doing magic tricks in the middle of a nightclub. I keep one eye out for him, I think about conversations we might have... I'm not "reducing him to some sort of meat puppet", I'm merely enjoying the idea of... well, of him, basically. And it's purely in the realm of fantasy - I don't have any assumptions of the reality of him, I'm not going to expect anything from him like you seem to think merely fantasising results in. I'm just... thinking, basically. Hoping, in a "wouldn't it be neat if..." sort of way.

[Coidzor]

I have daydreams. Does that make me obsessed? They usually repeat, or have general trends that they all share.

Now that's just deliberately misconstruing what I said. :smallannoyed:


What is your definition of 'enough mental resources' or 'enough time'? Are you saying that authors, or the people who design game settings, are obsessed? :smallconfused:

If they're imagining themselves having relationships or just relations with the characters for a portion of time significant enough to comment upon, yes. Wow. :smallconfused:


Basically, as usual, you're reading way, WAAAAAY too much into things.

I suppose I might at that, though I also see how the symmetry in this statement more clearly marks the gulf between us even as it highlights our shared qualities.

[Serpentine]

Uh huh, sure. Whatever you say.

[Eldest]

Actually going to the point of spending enough time or devoted enough mental resources to have constructed elaborate fantasy scenarios sounds like one has gone into obsession territory anyway.
In what way do daydreams not fit into this? I'm not misconstruing, I'm confused now.

[Lady Serpentine]

If they're imagining themselves having relationships or just relations with the characters for a portion of time significant enough to comment upon, yes. Wow. :smallconfused:


Ah. I misread the meaning; I had taken the quoted portion to refer to any elaborate fictional scenario.

[Serpentine]

Stephen King has said before that he always places himself in the protaganist's seat when developing a story (thus all the male author protaganists), and they often involve lots of relationships of various kinds upon which he presumably spends a lot of time and mental energy.
Jus' sayin'.

[Arachu]

I'd say game setting design requires a degree of obsession. You have to consider every individual factor, detail, mechanic... Well, everything. [/ramble]

I think the debate would go more smoothly with a unanimous definition of "crush". I've heard it described as everything from finding someone cute to all-but-stalking them (once or twice I've even heard it refer to simple admiration, but I think those examples were part of jokes).



PS: The comment about gadgets made me imagine cyborg Chromosomes. My mind is silly. :3

Now I want to program my genes to make my eyes become cybernetic. I'll figure out how and why later. :smallcool:


Not really, but then, I don't feel female either.

Yeah... I dunno. I've always had a... curiosity, I guess, though that may not be strong enough a word, about what it would be like to be female, even when I was in my 'girls are gross' stage I liked the idea (though I would have died before I admitted it to anyone), and I certainly have no attachment to being male. I think that, on the whole, I would prefer to be female, but unless I could just magically wake up one day as a woman, I don't think I want it quite enough to spend all the time and money and go through the social awkwardness and surgery required.

You don't have to identify as female to prefer having a female body. I identify as female, and I'm quite comfortable with my male body (I'd be much happier if it were androgynous, but that's sort of a matter of expression/appearance).

You sound genderqueer or even agender to me, though I only know what I've read in your posts. It should become more clear over time (or at least less confusing).

... This response is sorely lacking a smiley-face; *spontaneous glomp!* :smallbiggrin:


It kinda made me feel guilty, 'cause I just AM gay, I've never had to put up with much, never had to fight for it, and definitely never had to try so hard at it. It's pretty humbling, at least for me, and makes me grateful for my own situation, realizing how much harder it could be. But there are so many things about it that make me smile.

It looks like this year is gonna be about fixing all the problems within myself I can find (like ungratefulness, disrespectfulness, high-and-mighty, excetera). Granted I won't find/solve them all, after all, I gotta have faults and quirks or I'd be boring.

There's no need to beat yourself up for it - it's a good thing. The less of us have to fight for it, the better it's getting for us all.

... It worries me that I can't tell whether that statement was coherent or not. :smalltongue: Hopefully my point survived in either case.

Good luck with the calibrations, in any case. It's (typically) easier to talk to people when you're more polite to them, and it's easier to think when you agree with yourself. Just be sure not to completely do away with pride - you need to be a little full of yourself to be confident, you know? :smallsmile:


Hm. I'm having trouble articulating what I meant without it seeming even more awkward on my end, so now I'm worried I should have stopped before I prompted a response :smallredface:
Apologies. Being overly-conversational in threads with specific topics is inept those things I'm trying to stop doing ><

I don't think you're over-conversational at all. In fact, you're awesome. It's always nice to have a good conversation, and you're pretty insightful. :smallsmile:

I have a bit of a bias, though, considering how much our conversations in the last thread helped me. I'm pretty sure I was even more depressed than I eventually sounded, and your input made my days (often a handful in a row) a lot nicer. :smallsmile:

[Serpentine]

I'd probably consider it, as a very basic definition, romantic interest in someone that persists when outside their immediate presence.
I mean, for instance, I'll think some guy is super-cute and be interested in them, but then I'll leave and never think about them again. That's not a crush. This guy I saw in the nightclub once but I'm slightly mooning over, I would consider a mild crush.
I would also consider that, once it gets into the area of full-blown unhealthy obsession it is no longer a crush.
Finally, I'd say it can run a full spectrum, from mild interest to so-close-to-love-it-hurts.

[SiuiS]

Stephen King has said before that he always places himself in the protaganist's seat when developing a story (thus all the male author protaganists), and they often involve lots of relationships of various kinds upon which he presumably spends a lot of time and mental energy.
Jus' sayin'.

Steven King is a terrible example of a non-creepy guy with fantasies though, in my opinion...

I think the divide is specifically when the obsessive behavior becomes abou sex and self-gratification while also potentially dehumanizing another. Like OCD, it's not a problem until its a disorder, which I think is what Coidzpr means by "worth commenting on". Fantasizing is one thing, building an elaborate inner world you would rather be in more often than the real one is another. If I'm reading him correctly, that is.

I was gonna say something earlier actually, until I made myself feel like a rube. But it seems pertinent now so here goes. There's floating around (but hard to find on the Google, oddly) the concept of the Fairy Lover; the imagined lover so great that you end up passing up I opportunities for love in lieu of your fantasies. So you spend your life or a portion thereof pining for a dream, and wasting away. I've heard it knocked around that maybe a lot of the old stories of folks wandering into fairy and pining away ever after are based on this sort of thing; a natural ocurence (a crush) extending into unhealthy obsession.

[Coidzor]

Uh huh, sure. Whatever you say.

If you're letting yourself get upset over it, then yeah, you are reading rather deeply into something that's not even complete enough for you to have fun dissecting.

[Serpentine]

Except it seems an awful lot as though he's saying pretty much any sexual or romantic fantasy which has any substance to it is "creepy" and "wrong" and "unhealthy". Moreover, he actually said "I believe crushes to be generally bad for one's self and to actually build up elaborate fantasy scenarios in one's head about meeting and establishing a relationship, well, that just exacerbates the general creepiness of a crush to me."
Leaving aside for now the "crushes are bad" bit, "elaborate fantasy scenarios" can be a long way off of "an elaborate inner world you would rather be in more often than the real one is another". At what point is it "too elaborate"? Is it putting a face on your imaginary lover? Giving them a personality? Having a story to it? And by what standard is something "worth commenting on"? If the subject of sexual fantasies comes up in conversation, does merely participating in the conversation render your fantasies "creepy and wrong" by virtue of the fact you're commenting on them, even though it has absolutely no other impact on your life?

edit: If you think I'm "getting upset", you have an inflated sense of your impact on me.

[SiuiS]

I'd say game setting design requires a degree of obsession. You have to consider every individual factor, detail, mechanic... Well, everything. [/ramble]

Aye, true. I think it's the healthy/unhealthy debate that is behind this kerscuffle.



I don't think you're over-conversational at all. In fact, you're awesome. It's always nice to have a good conversation, and you're pretty insightful. :smallsmile:

I have a bit of a bias, though, considering how much our conversations in the last thread helped me. I'm pretty sure I was even more depressed than I eventually sounded, and your input made my days (often a handful in a row) a lot nicer. :smallsmile:

Well thanks! I'm glad I was able to help. I'm finding out the fun way how helpful or terribly embarrassing one word can make things on a forum >>;

By overconversational though, I mean... Well, like this going on here. I want to continue looking at the issue. I even want to go off on a tangent. The tangent is about the same amount of degrees separate from LGBTA+ issues, so it doesn't feel like I'd be diverting things. But it's still separate, which runs counter to the focus of the thread even if I feel it is related.

So I guess I'm trying not to have entire posts that don't contribute whatsoever, I guess.


I'd probably consider it, as a very basic definition, romantic interest in someone that persists when outside their immediate presence.
I mean, for instance, I'll think some guy is super-cute and be interested in them, but then I'll leave and never think about them again. That's not a crush. This guy I saw in the nightclub once but I'm slightly mooning over, I would consider a mild crush.
I would also consider that, once it gets into the area of full-blown unhealthy obsession it is no longer a crush.
Finally, I'd say it can run a full spectrum, from mild interest to so-close-to-love-it-hurts.

But that requires mutual exclusion that we can't guarantee. An unhealthy obsession could still be a crush, just not "just a crush". It's intensity is dialed beyond reason but it's still a crush at the base level, y'know?

And romantic connections... Wouldn't this mean that crushing on someone while in a relationship would be cheating, at least on an emotional level? Or I suppose not as that require commission on the other party's part too... Hm.


Leaving aside for now the "crushes are bad" bit, "ela borate fantasy scenarios" can be a long way off of "an elaborate inner world you would rather be in more often than the real one is another". At what point is it "too elaborate"? Is it putting a face on your imaginary lover? Giving them a personality? Having a story to it? And by what standard is something "worth commenting on"? If the subject of sexual fantasies comes up in conversation, does merely participating in the conversation render your fantasies "creepy and wrong" by virtue of the fact you're commenting on them, even though it has absolutely no other impact on your life?

I hope not, or I was one heck of a deranged 4-7 year old ^^'

I think at the core, you both agree with the same notions, now you're just debating how far is too far. I don't think, after having the parameters sort of stabilized, that Coidzor has persisted with an "all crushes are bad" attitude. Further, I can see where he is coming from even if I disagree, so I don't quite get why you seem so ... Adamant? Upset? Granted, I'm button in, but it seems worth pointing out you aren't (thus far) actually disagreeing...

[Serpentine]

But that requires mutual exclusion that we can't guarantee. An unhealthy obsession could still be a crush, just not "just a crush". It's intensity is dialed beyond reason but it's still a crush at the base level, y'know?That is the bit I'm least sure about in my definition, but... It's sorta like "weather" doesn't really encompass "the sun exploding", y'know? Technically it's just a matter of degrees, but it's such an extreme extension of it it really has little left in common.

And romantic connections... Wouldn't this mean that crushing on someone while in a relationship would be cheating, at least on an emotional level? Or I suppose not as that require commission on the other party's part too... Hm.I wouldn't, but I could see someone thinking so. I'd consider that pretty unreasonable, though. For one thing, there isn't really a "connection" innate to crushes, and for another I'd consider cheating to require actions of some sort, and mere fantasies and crushes (particularly mild ones) are not actions.

I hope not, or I was one heck of a deranged 4-7 year old ^^'You had sexual fantasies at 4-7? o.O

I don't think, after having the parameters sort of stabilized, that Coidzor has persisted with an "all crushes are bad" attitude.I haven't noticed any such concessions, but I concede I could be mistaken.

Further, I can see where he is coming from even if I disagree, so I don't quite get why you seem so ... Adamant? Upset? Granted, I'm button in, but it seems worth pointing out you aren't (thus far) actually disagreeing...He believes that crushes and fantasies are, in his own words, "wrong" and "creepy". I believe he has no damn right to judge people based on what goes on in their own heads, particularly when it is, contrary to what he has also claimed, for the most part completely harmless - and when it's not completely harmless, it's a symptom of something else, not a cause. Basically, the judgementalism revealed by his choice of words deeply rubs me the wrong way.

[golentan]

You had sexual fantasies at 4-7? o.O

I can't speak for anyone else, but I had pseudosexual fantasies by the age of 2. I didn't really know how things were supposed to work, but I liked kissing other kids my age and kept imagining... something more we should be doing. Not sure what (either then or now).

[SiuiS]

EDIT:
I can't speak for anyone else, but I had pseudosexual fantasies by the age of 2. I didn't really know how things were supposed to work, but I liked kissing other kids my age and kept imagining... something more we should be doing. Not sure what (either then or now).

I must confess to relief at finally not being the only person I've ever heard of to experience this... I've been vaguely interested in love and it's workings since my very second memory; my first vein looking up at my brother from a baby carrier. Not knowing what was "supposed" to be the way things worked let me come up with all sorts of stuff that isn't considered ok by societal standards.


That is the bit I'm least sure about in my definition, but... It's sorta like "weather" doesn't really encompass "the sun exploding", y'know? Technically it's just a matter of degrees, but it's such an extreme extension of it it really has little left in common.

... You've got me there XD



I wouldn't, but I could see someone thinking so. I'd consider that pretty unreasonable, though. For one thing, there isn't really a "connection" innate to crushes, and for another I'd consider cheating to require actions of some sort, and mere fantasies and crushes (particularly mild ones) are not actions.

Okie doke. Thanks.



You had sexual fantasies at 4-7? o.O

I meant more the very elaborate relationships with imaginary people bit, but yes. I had detailed imaginary workings I got in trouble for before I knew there was a difference between sexes and genders. Or ethnicities, for that matter; I was pretty naive until about 12.



I haven't noticed any such concessions, but I concede I could be mistaken.
He believes that crushes and fantasies are, in his own words, "wrong" and "creepy". I believe he has no damn right to judge people based on what goes on in their own heads, particularly when it is, contrary to what he has also claimed, for the most part completely harmless - and when it's not completely harmless, it's a symptom of something else, not a cause. Basically, the judgementalism revealed by his choice of words deeply rubs me the wrong way.

Ok. I mostly agree with you, except he hasn't restated his Opinion, he's just chosen not to refute the translation you're ascribing to him.

I'm caught. On the one hand judgmental stuff is generally bad, but on the other he has a right to that opinion (if it is indeed his opinion). I'd settle for an acknowledgement that he realizes he has different standards, rather than asserting we're all messed-up kooks (over this; I cannot refute being a messed up kook for other reasons). Does that make sense? Sure he has to filter us through his own lenses, that's fine. He doesn't have to like or agree with me. So long as he's not actively or passively persecuting I am content to let him remain as he is. His difference has value.

[Serpentine]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I had pseudosexual fantasies by the age of 2. I didn't really know how things were supposed to work, but I liked kissing other kids my age and kept imagining... something more we should be doing. Not sure what (either then or now).
I meant more the very elaborate relationships with imaginary people bit, but yes. I had detailed imaginary workings I got in trouble for before I knew there was a difference between sexes and genders. Or ethnicities, for that matter; I was pretty naive until about 12.Huh. There you go.
I guess I did... something with a friend of mine around that time, so it's not totally outside my sphere of reference.
... You've got me there XDYay! I win! :biggrin:

[Nix Nihila]

Hmm... I usually get somewhat uncomfortable when people crush on me, but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong or creepy about it. Nor is there necessarily anything wrong with having very detailed imaginary conversations. I do it, and not by choice, my mind just sort of wanders in that direction (although in my case it's me speaking with people who I admire or find interesting rather than people who I'm romantically interested in).

There is a certainly a point where it becomes quite creepy, but I don't think it's the norm.

[Anuan]

So. This. :smallannoyed:

Ragemaker. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lReX1dAUAE)

[KenderWizard]

So, when I left to go to sleep, the thread exploded on the topic of crushes. Basically, I agree with Serps. I'm going to spoiler the discussion, though, because it's a bit to the side of our stated topic, and a discussion rather than happy supportive times.

So, crushes:

Crushes are totally normal, I've heard they're probably a mental "practice" for intimacy and relationships. Not everyone gets them and certainly not to the same degrees. I would argue the line between Really Strong Crush and OMFG Stalker lies in actions, not thoughts. Lying in your own bed imagining going out to dinner with that cute mysterious girl in your class and coming up with an imaginary conversation and imaginary dress for her and imaginary tepid soup but imaginary tender delicious steak, followed by an imaginary walk home together with an imaginary bottle of wine... that's fine. Actually going to her house and climbing the tree outside her window to watch her sleep? That's not fine!

Also, children are sexual beings. They're not ready to have sex, obviously, and sexual thoughts and actions kick in at different times depending on the child, like with anything, but children can start having sexual feelings from basically when they can talk, as I remember it. I did from when I was about 4? That I remember, anyway. Although I didn't know that it was eventually going to be related to, y'know, babymaking until waaaaay later. Like, late teens.

[Moonshadow]

So. This. :smallannoyed:

Ragemaker. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lReX1dAUAE)

...Really? They're REALLY going down that route? :smallmad:

[Mystic Muse]

...Really? They're REALLY going down that route? :smallmad:


So. This. :smallannoyed:

Ragemaker. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lReX1dAUAE)

I don't really even understand the commercial.:smallconfused:

[turkishproverb]

I don't really even understand the commercial.:smallconfused:

It suggests that the Transwoman is less of a woman due to her lack of periods and thus childbearing ability, or more simply the fact she wasn't born in a woman's body.

[Heliomance]

Oi. Suppport thread is getting needlessly antagonistic again. Stop it.

[SiuiS]

So. This. :smallannoyed:

Ragemaker. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lReX1dAUAE)

Of course, the one time I stumble and actually look at the video comments, it's something like this. Commercial? Whatever. Hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on the lowest common denominator. But the comments...

Good heavens that was depressing. Kinda puts a dent in my faith in humanity. :smallfrown: :smallfurious:

[turkishproverb]

Oi. Suppport thread is getting needlessly antagonistic again. Stop it.

...

Did I do something wrong?

[Heliomance]

...

Did I do something wrong?

Not you specifically. Most of the last page was sniping back and forth, mostly Serps and Coid. But whoever it was, it creates a hostile environment in what really needs to be a safe and friendly place.

[Lanaya]

You don't have to identify as female to prefer having a female body. I identify as female, and I'm quite comfortable with my male body (I'd be much happier if it were androgynous, but that's sort of a matter of expression/appearance).

You sound genderqueer or even agender to me, though I only know what I've read in your posts. It should become more clear over time (or at least less confusing).

... This response is sorely lacking a smiley-face; *spontaneous glomp!* :smallbiggrin:

AAAAAAHH!

Dammit, I knew that would happen if I stayed in this thread too long.

What exactly does genderqueer mean? I've seen the word floating around a fair bit, but never found a definition, and the definitions list in the OP doesn't have it.

[Astrella]

AAAAAAHH!

Dammit, I knew that would happen if I stayed in this thread too long.

What exactly does genderqueer mean? I've seen the word floating around a fair bit, but never found a definition, and the definitions list in the OP doesn't have it.

Well, it can have several definitions, but it most often used for the gender identity of people who identify outside the gender binary. This can cover several things, such as being bigendered, genderfluid, third/othergendered, etc...

[Asta Kask]

What exactly does genderqueer mean? I've seen the word floating around a fair bit, but never found a definition, and the definitions list in the OP doesn't have it.

We're not entirely sure, but we're hoping someone will come along one day and give a crisp, clear definition... :smallbiggrin:

[noparlpf]

So. This. :smallannoyed:

Ragemaker. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lReX1dAUAE)

...I don't get it.


It suggests that the Transwoman is less of a woman due to her lack of periods and thus childbearing ability, or more simply the fact she wasn't born in a woman's body.

OH. Well then that's not very nice. >:|
If that chick was supposed to be a transwoman, it also bothers me that they were doing the whole stereotypical too-much-makeup thing.




Of course, the one time I stumble and actually look at the video comments, it's something like this. Commercial? Whatever. Hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on the lowest common denominator. But the comments...

Good heavens that was depressing. Kinda puts a dent in my faith in humanity. :smallfrown: :smallfurious:

You almost tempted me to go back and look at the comments. But not quite. Nope. I like my faith in humanity.


AAAAAAHH!

Dammit, I knew that would happen if I stayed in this thread too long.

What exactly does genderqueer mean? I've seen the word floating around a fair bit, but never found a definition, and the definitions list in the OP doesn't have it.

I always figure genderqueer means some kind of gender that doesn't fit into some other word.

[Astrella]

If that chick was supposed to be a transwoman, it also bothers me that they were doing the whole stereotypical too-much-makeup thing.

Yeah, that annoyed me too. But then again, the whole thing is in bad taste.

[Asta Kask]

According to Wikipedia, Queer means anyone who is not "heterosexual, heteronormative, or gender-binary." Not certain whether you have to be all three.

[KenderWizard]

So. This. :smallannoyed:

Ragemaker. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lReX1dAUAE)

:smallfrown: That's a silly ad. I don't know how anyone could even get into a girlyness contest in the bathroom anyway. Who does that?

Also, I think tampons are outside the remit of that contest. Clearly, it was a femininity contest (also stupid) rather than a female-bodiedness contest.

Anyway, lots of female-bodied people don't menstruate. Tall lady should have pretended to be pregnant?

Also, who pulls out tampons?!


According to Wikipedia, Queer means anyone who is not "heterosexual, heteronormative, or gender-binary." Not certain whether you have to be all three.

I imagine you don't. But I think if you're outside the gender binary, which is what "genderqueer" would suggest by that definition, heterosexuality and heteronormativity are unlikely, simply by definition. I always took genderqueer to mean any kind of atypical gender. Also, I like queer as a word.

[Asta Kask]

But is 'queer' a binary state? Are you either queer or not, or can there be different levels of 'queerness'?

[Mina Kobold]

But is 'queer' a binary state? Are you either queer or not, or can there be different levels of 'queerness'?

I think it counts as a trait, so it could be changing and mixing with other traits. Kind of like being silly or calm. Which would make it possible to be queer-esque or only sometimes be so. :smallsmile:

But that's just a guess, I am probably wrong. ^_^'

On another note, I like the word too. Partially because it pops up in a lot of good Fantasy and pre-fantasy books. :3

[Serpentine]

People hating the comments on that ad: Just focus on the two highest rated.

[Asta Kask]

Just saw "Police Academy" from 1984. Wow. Casual sexism and homophobia were really though of as funny back then.

Just shows how the morality of the time moves, I suppose.

[supernerd]

Also, I like queer as a word.


Dude, same! And that comercial was more like "wow, really?" to me. Kinda was like a shock and then high frustration, nearing anger. Then again, I probably would have been more upset if I was a transsexual. But I tend to get upset at discrimination/stereotyping of minorities, especially against those who are not "sexually normal" even though science have proven all varieties of queers.

Hmm... Well I generally dislike it when a homophobe says queer in a derogatory slur kind of way, but other than that, unless the subject was moderately serious, that word tends to make me smile.

Oh and speaking of anger, apparently I start grinning like a madman whenever I am seething with rage, not just rageful, or furious, but seething with rage. Found this out yesterday, as my boyfriend broke up with me the day before. He still wants to be friends, and I do too, but this is the first time that I'm really getting dumped, so I went through my angry phase yesterday, and it's gonna be a bit hard when school resumes tomorrow. Yeah he asked if I would be mad, and of course once presented his reasons, I said no I wouldn't and that I bounce back really easily. Turns out, I lied twice in one scentence, who knew?

Sorry for the self pitying rant, folks. Ugh, what a disgusting emotion to feel, self pity is.

[supernerd]

I think it counts as a trait, so it could be changing and mixing with other traits. Kind of like being silly or calm. Which would make it possible to be queer-esque or only sometimes be so. :smallsmile:

But that's just a guess, I am probably wrong. ^_^'

On another note, I like the word too. Partially because it pops up in a lot of good Fantasy and pre-fantasy books. :3

Like when they say it to mean peculiar, like Tolkein?

Also, I'm pretty sure sexuality is a polygenetic trait with several other traits affecting it, but also completely from how masculine/feminine you are.

[Astrella]

But is 'queer' a binary state? Are you either queer or not, or can there be different levels of 'queerness'?

I think it's best to assume it's binary. Otherwise you can get into a whole series of "queerer then thou" arguments, and those never end well.

(You can go silly in here though; people believing in a binary queer / non-queer state, and people breaking up that binary; but that's getting a bit too meta I think. :smalltongue: )


Hmm... Well I generally dislike it when a homophobe says queer in a derogatory slur kind of way, but other than that, unless the subject was moderately serious, that word tends to make me smile.

Well, that's the thing with reclaimed words; they can mean vastly different things depending on who uses them.


Oh and speaking of anger, apparently I start grinning like a madman whenever I am seething with rage, not just rageful, or furious, but seething with rage. Found this out yesterday, as my boyfriend broke up with me the day before. He still wants to be friends, and I do too, but this is the first time that I'm really getting dumped, so I went through my angry phase yesterday, and it's gonna be a bit hard when school resumes tomorrow. Yeah he asked if I would be mad, and of course once presented his reasons, I said no I wouldn't and that I bounce back really easily. Turns out, I lied twice in one scentence, who knew?

Sorry for the self pitying rant, folks. Ugh, what a disgusting emotion to feel, self pity is.

Aww. :c

*lotsa hugs*

[supernerd]

Aww. :c

*lotsa hugs*

Thank'ee much *hugs back*

[Asta Kask]

*joins hugging*

[Mystic Muse]

It suggests that the Transwoman is less of a woman due to her lack of periods and thus childbearing ability, or more simply the fact she wasn't born in a woman's body.


...I don't get it.



OH. Well then that's not very nice. >:|
If that chick was supposed to be a transwoman, it also bothers me that they were doing the whole stereotypical too-much-makeup thing.


I feel like this is worse than the "Too much makeup" thing, because if that's really supposed to be a trans-woman, they don't look like they spent much effort in looking like a girl so much as a drag queen.

Really, I was under the impression the person was just supposed to be cross-dressing. Now that I know that's supposed to be a transsexual, yeah I'm offended.

[Asta Kask]

So... the women on this thread know what hygiene products to boycott, yes?

[Arachu]

*Also joins hugging*

Nothing wrong with feeling sad for a while. It's definitely better to get it out now instead of letting it build up.


So. This. :smallannoyed:

Ragemaker. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lReX1dAUAE)

I think it's even worse than that... It's almost like it's implying that women who don't use the product aren't as feminine. It's a tampon commercial that involves transphobia and sexism? :smallconfused::smallannoyed:


AAAAAAHH!

Dammit, I knew that would happen if I stayed in this thread too long.

What exactly does genderqueer mean? I've seen the word floating around a fair bit, but never found a definition, and the definitions list in the OP doesn't have it.

HAHAHA! :nale:

I think the closest thing to a strong definition would be 'neither male nor female, but not neither and not both' (so, basically "divide by 2 error" :smallbiggrin:). Sometimes androgyne or genderfluid are appropriate synonyms, but in other cases even those aren't accurate.

The most concise definition would be "it's complicated, to the eleventh power". :roach:


According to Wikipedia, Queer means anyone who is not "heterosexual, heteronormative, or gender-binary." Not certain whether you have to be all three.

Gender-binary in this case, though heteronormativity kind of collapses at that point and it's hard to say which gender is 'opposite'.

[KenderWizard]

Hugging time!


Dude, same! And that comercial was more like "wow, really?" to me. Kinda was like a shock and then high frustration, nearing anger. Then again, I probably would have been more upset if I was a transsexual. But I tend to get upset at discrimination/stereotyping of minorities, especially against those who are not "sexually normal" even though science have proven all varieties of queers.

Hmm... Well I generally dislike it when a homophobe says queer in a derogatory slur kind of way, but other than that, unless the subject was moderately serious, that word tends to make me smile.

Oh and speaking of anger, apparently I start grinning like a madman whenever I am seething with rage, not just rageful, or furious, but seething with rage. Found this out yesterday, as my boyfriend broke up with me the day before. He still wants to be friends, and I do too, but this is the first time that I'm really getting dumped, so I went through my angry phase yesterday, and it's gonna be a bit hard when school resumes tomorrow. Yeah he asked if I would be mad, and of course once presented his reasons, I said no I wouldn't and that I bounce back really easily. Turns out, I lied twice in one scentence, who knew?

Sorry for the self pitying rant, folks. Ugh, what a disgusting emotion to feel, self pity is.

:smallfrown: (Having to use sadface smiley too much these days!) Poor you, that really sucks. Sometimes I spontaneously start crying when I'm angry (or at any other time of high emotion) and that's super annoying. "You are not making me 'upset'! These are not tears of sadness! You are making me homicidally enraged!!"


But is 'queer' a binary state? Are you either queer or not, or can there be different levels of 'queerness'?

I would say you are either queer or not, but there are different "types" of queerness, like classes, rather than increasing grades, like levels.

[Asta Kask]

Gender-binary in this case, though heteronormativity kind of collapses at that point and it's hard to say which gender is 'opposite'.

I suppose you could be gender-trinary, classifying asuexals as a gender of their own... would that count?

Gah, my pilosophy instincts coming to the fore.

[Lord Raziere]

I suppose you could be gender-trinary, classifying asuexals as a gender of their own... would that count?

Gah, my pilosophy instincts coming to the fore.

Did someone say PHILOSOPHY!? :smallcool:

well, you can have someone who can consider themselves an asexual boy/girl, still identifying as a gender while still being asexual, so nope, asexual is not a gender, at least if one thinks like that.

[KenderWizard]

I feel like this is worse than the "Too much makeup" thing, because if that's really supposed to be a trans-woman, they don't look like they spent much effort in looking like a girl so much as a drag queen.

Really, I was under the impression the person was just supposed to be cross-dressing. Now that I know that's supposed to be a transsexual, yeah I'm offended.

Yeah, you're right, they do appear to have gone for drag queen tropes.


So... the women on this thread know what hygiene products to boycott, yes?

N/A - Mooncups! :smallbiggrin: I should get a "Ask me about reusable menstrual cups!" badge...


I suppose you could be gender-trinary, classifying asuexals as a gender of their own... would that count?

Gah, my pilosophy instincts coming to the fore.

But we use "asexual" to mean someone without interest or desire for sexual conduct. They're still men, women or genderqueer. Being a dude who doesn't like sex doesn't exclude you automatically from dudeliness (no matter what some bigoted people might tell you).

[Asta Kask]

Technically I said "pilosophy", meaning "knowledge of body hair".

But it was a misspelling.

[H Birchgrove]

On the Libra advert: Most of the comments I read were negative toward the commercial, which IMO is a good thing. Some times, anger is justified.

[Astrella]

I suppose you could be gender-trinary, classifying asuexals as a gender of their own... would that count?

Gah, my pilosophy instincts coming to the fore.

Think you mean agender, rather then asexual.