Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

[DeadManSleeping]

Welcome to the Relationship Woes and Advice thread, home of any questions you may have: romantic or familial or friendship, we'll answer (or try to answer) them all. Three years old and growing. As Pancake says, this isn't a trade economy- feel free to ask if you have a question, even if you haven't ever given advice and don't intend to start. We won't stone you or ignore you or anything. All we ask is to know how a situation ends up, either in this thread or through a PM.

Here are the basics.

The biggest bit of advice I've seen bandied around is the truest- no matter what else is true about the situation, always be yourself. It's no good to act like someone else, because eventually the true you will come out and the other person will not be happy you hid that from them.


Rules Of Relationships:
#1- Communicate. If you can't talk with your partner, it's probably not going to work.

#2- Be yourself. Admittedly, if you have some really bad habits you should probably try to change them, but be honest about who you are. No one wants to find out they were loving a lie, and no one likes to live a lie (...well, normally).

#3- Accept your partner. In mine, and other people's, experience you have to be able to accept your partner as they are, because they probably won't be able to change. Also, don't change drastically for someone. I've tried it, my friends have tried it, it doesn't work and it doesn't end pretty.

#4- Hints. Do. Not. Work. Or they might, but the chance of that happening is limited. Some people are like me and just utterly oblivious unless it is blatantly stated, others are (also like me) and don't want to assume, and yet others don't care. You won't know which they belong to unless you actually spell out your intentions and/or feelings. I would consider this a corrolery to Rule #1 except that it comes up so often. Do NOT assume someone should know something from hints. Hints, by nature, are subtle. Clue Bats/Crow Bars/Mack Trucks are not. Try hitting them with one of those. ;) (No, not literally. I mean be upfront if you are trying to get someone to know something.)

#5- Don't be desperate. You don't need to be in a relationship and the healthiest mindset is one where you are happy as you are, even if you do not have a significant other. Don't stay in a relationship that isn't good if you aren't happy, just because you want someone. This is detrimental to both parties in the long (and sometimes short) run.

#6- Be a couple. Set aside some time every week to be together. Just an hour, if nothing else, where it's JUST you two. No computer, no others. Just the couple.

#6.5- Maintain the relationship. Ask your partner every now and then how they are feeling, if they feel like the relationship is still going in a good direction, etc. Also, make sure you don't hide it if you have an issue with your partner or a relationship. The only way it can change is if you talk about it.

#7- Let your boundaries be known. This goes for everything from intimacy to what you consider cheating to any other thing you can think of. Pretty much if it's something that would possibly upset you or your partner, let them know BEFORE a problem arises. An example would be letting your partner know you consider kissing cheating. They very well might think only intercourse is cheating. Having that known before anything potentially happens is a good thing.

#8- Know the signs of an abusive relationship. Both men and women can be abusers, and if you recognize the signs early on you are more likely to be able to get out of a bad situation before it gets out of hand. It's never easy, but if you know the general red flags, it can help you to avoid the situation.

A list (http://helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_types_signs_causes_effects .htm)- courtesy of Pheehelm

RULES. YOU READ THESE.
-Anything of a sexual nature, please PM to either myself or one of the regular advice givers. If you just want general opinions post something like: "I have this problem, but it is not board appropriate. Could one of you guys PM me?" I know from experience that you will in fact get help.

-KEEP IT NICE. Disagreements are bound to happen, but please don't be rude.

-Joking is all fun and games, within reasons. Please do not get derogatory.

-We are not allowed to dispense advice that should be handled by a professional, including psychological or medical advice.

I decided to put this up because, evidently, it was not apparent that these should be followed. I do not want this thread to be scrubbed again, and we were blessed to get it back.

So please - play nice, and if you're not comfortable talking about things over the open board, PM one of the regulars (too many to mention), and I'm sure they'll be willing to lend an ear - or if you're not sure who to PM, post asking for someone to PM you, and you'll soon get a response

-Syka

Previous thread: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212025)

[Coidzor]

Good title, we approve.

Repost from last thread about rooms and blacklights and one's bed and guest etiquette and how to dissuade someone from calling one a slut as a form of greeting without resorting to violence:
Hmm... So I find myself at an impasse as to how exactly to respond to a girl taking a blacklight and sneaking into my room while I was out walking the dog and running the blacklight over my bed in an attempt to find something incriminating.

This feels like a violation of trust and privacy at about 8 or 9 on the 1-10 scale.

Any suggestions?


... Did she find anything incriminating?


Does it matter? She has no business checking into my bed, especially considering she is decidedly not welcome there.



...uh... why'd she do it? What reason did she have? Simple curiosity of "hmm, wonder if Coid be gettin' some"? Was it for some stranger "imma be a ****" purpose? Have you asked?

Additionally, have you said, "Hey! Don't do that kinda thing. That's pretty unacceptable."

Finally, why do you really care? Is this a housemate or some random person? If it's a housemate, that's more of an issue, but can be solved with something called a lock. :smalltongue:


Someone that I was fairly good friends with in Highschool but who has dropped down to acquaintance level good feelings through one thing or another. You may recall my mentioning a girl who was cheating on her fiance behind his back until she finally just couldn't be bothered and so browbeat him into staying with her while she started sleeping around openly rather than just on thesly.

She's apparently trying to "slut shame" me now, which is kind of as annoying as it is hypocritical of her. I'd say this is probably related to her moving in with that one girl who decided to start making "whore," "ho," "hoe," and "slut" her go-to greetings towards me via facebook chat.

I have yet to find a way to adequately convey my displeasure with that, as the only answer I can find to someone trying to "slut shame" me for being male is to do a violence upon them.

One of the few downsides to people eroding gender roles, the *ahem* individuals who think that it means that trying to make slut shaming of men a thing is the way to go rather than getting rid of the stupidity of calling girls sluts for having had sex outside of wedlock once.

Right now I only have the word of one other person who was in the house at the time and I was told this after the woman in question had departed. So I'm tempering my ire with the knowledge that it is possible that I am being deceived, and so I believe my appropriate response should include seeking confirmation of what exactly was going on there. Although, it's a rather sad indication of how our relationship has deteriorated that I trust the acquaintance I made a few months ago at Halloween about on the same level, possibly more, than I trust her word. :smallsigh:

Mostly I care because of 1. I can only ascribe ill motives to such an act and 2. I do not like my privacy to be violated like that. It's like going through a man's collection of images of his significant other in flagrante delicto, unless he's decided to dump those images on 4chan already, but even then you don't go through his computer to view them.

[Mutant Sheep]

Who starts at 21 though? Fake ID's are the whole point of going to bars.:smallbiggrin:

[Coidzor]

Who starts at 21 though? Fake ID's are the whole point of going to bars.:smallbiggrin:

There's the meat market, the neighborhood pub where one can stop over and have a pint and a bite of something decent together and/or converse with friends without anyone having to play host or hostess, and the pool hall in disguise as bar types that I've discovered so far.

I believe there's also ones where one goes to have a gin and tonic or two and listen to music, but I've yet to discover them personally.

[Reluctance]

Coid: Let's break this into component parts:

The names she calls you are a disincentive to talk to her again. I mean, I'm all for gender equity; if you'd slug a guy, go ahead and slug her. I just find that people do that **** for a rise. Either stop putting up with them, or stop taking their bait and giving them what they want.

Searching your room like that would be a violation of your trust even if she were a housemate. And I say this as someone who understands that there are plenty of legitimate reason's to go into a housemate's room. I'd have to know her relationship with your other housemates to say anything for sure, but if you're the only one she's on any sort of terms with, you can tell the people you live with that she's not allowed in unless you expressly invite her. Trespassing after that should be treated like any other trespasser.

The story as a whole sounds like someone acting out because they feel that they can without consequences. The exact details are probably more than the time/stomach lining you care to waste.

[Marillion]

Ok, so. Met a girl through OKCupid, and we've been texting back and forth for a while. I like her, and it was obvious even to someone as oblivious as me that she's interested as well. Today, for our first irl meeting, she asked if I'd like to accompany her on a 3 hour drive from here to an errand she had to run and back. Disregarding one of the prime rules of first dates (don't be in a situation where you are the main source of entertainment for the other person), I said yes...with predictable results. It wasn't a complete disaster, but it definitely could have gone better. As eloquent, charming (or so she says) and long-winded as I am in text, I am...not always so in person, especially during first meetings. Thus, the evening was spent in pleasant but sputtering conversations once I realized that "holy **** I have no idea how to act around actual people", and I could almost feel myself running into the bar I'd set, knocking it over like so many Jenga towers toppled by an unsteady hand.

She seemed disappointed, is the point I'm trying to make.

And naturally, right now I am just filled with things I shoulda, coulda, woulda said. Just to make my failure complete. :smallsigh: *headdesk*

I mean...I know I'm charming, witty, and halfway to handsome on a good day. Today was just not a good day.

I am, however, pretty sure that it can be salvaged. I am just unsure of how to go about that, and more importantly, how to ensure that I don't freeze up again. Help me, GitP. You're my only hope.

Coid: just stop talking to her. People like that aren't worth your time, and you're not going to be the person to get her to change your ways. Perhaps one day she'll realize what she's doing is stupid and wrong and you can be friends again, but in the mean time it isn't worth enduring the shaming and privacy invasions, in my opinion.

[Rawhide]

Some very good advice for all you men. (http://www.twiceblessedcomic.com/?webcomic_post=guest-strip)

[WhamBamSam]

And naturally, right now I am just filled with things I shoulda, coulda, woulda said. Just to make my failure complete. :smallsigh: *headdesk*

I mean...I know I'm charming, witty, and halfway to handsome on a good day. Today was just not a good day.

I am, however, pretty sure that it can be salvaged. I am just unsure of how to go about that, and more importantly, how to ensure that I don't freeze up again. Help me, GitP. You're my only hope.Welcome to my love life. There's a long list of things I should have said for one reason or another over the course of my last catastrophic romantic failure, and right at the top would be offering a slight heads up that I don't have quite the same talent for speech that I do for writing.

Anyway, take this advice for what it's worth, knowing that my own endeavors in this regard haven't been particularly successful.

You're charming, witty, and halfway to handsome on a good day? Then you'd do well to ensure that you next meet up with this girl on one of those good days. Chance favors the prepared mind after all. Invite her out to do something that's likely to nudge conversation toward a topic you're particularly comfortable talking about. Once you build up some momentum, you should be able to ride it in whatever direction the discussion goes in, and the fact that there's something to steer the conversation in the first place should mean that you won't be in the same awkward position of being the sole provider of entertainment.

[Lissou]

Catching up with the end of the previous thread:

Coidzor, about the masturbation thing, Dan Savage mentioned it in his column a bunch of times, and I read it from other sources too. And I tend to trust Dan Savage's column because he's pretty good about going to specialists and asking them about stuff.

About the whle virgin thing, here are a few thoughts, but spoilered since it's kinda off-topic by now:
Moonshadow, I didn't say take control, I said take charge. What I meant was more along the lines of taking pressure off of their shoulders so they can just relax and enjoy. It's not about going "do this! Do that!" it's about trying things and seeing how they like them. Obviously they can say
they'd like to try this or that, but for the actual technical aspects it's best to have someone show you the first time I believe. I was very happy to have my first time with someone who was experienced.

Think for instance about a condom. Imagine a guy who has never put one on. Which is best, handing one to him and saying "figure it out" or putting it on him while explaining the important aspects, so that next time he can do it with more confidence?
The same kind of logic applies. I'm more comfortable with the person who will let me show him than the one who will say "no, no, don't tell me, I want to do it on my own" and then fails at it and won't take any advice.
Note that I said "the result might not be so good" and not "the result will not be good". It might be fine, and then I wouldn't have a problem with it, but yes, I would have apprehension if they start off by not letting me offer my experience, be it only to tell them what I enjoy, and prefer copying something they've seen in porn or something.
By "the result might not be so good" I didn't mean "I won't enjoy the sex" by the way. I meant it might not be a good experience for them to fumble and get increasingly more nervous and self-conscious. At that point why should I stand still and do nothing rather than guide their hands (or other parts)?
An of course the more awkward it is for them, the more awkward it is for me as well.

Bottom line is, it's rare to know what you like on your first time, and how you like it. You're often not aware of all the options and there are things you've never felt before. I feel showing the different things so that they have a better idea of what they like best for next times is more constructive.

And now that I'm caught up I hope I'll be able to stay caught up for longer this time :P

[Dallas-Dakota]

You can enter bars at any age over here, some events have 14/16/18 but that's usually just the occasional event at clubs. And drink light alcohols from 16+ and strong from 18+

The title, it doesn't apply to my country.:smalltongue:
But yeah, bar-hopping is good fun.

[AtlanteanTroll]

About the whle virgin thing, here are a few thoughts, but spoilered since it's kinda off-topic by now
You messed up your spoiler tags. :smallsmile:

[Coidzor]

I mean...I know I'm charming, witty, and halfway to handsome on a good day. Today was just not a good day.

I am, however, pretty sure that it can be salvaged. I am just unsure of how to go about that, and more importantly, how to ensure that I don't freeze up again. Help me, GitP. You're my only hope.

Well, it sounds like it was a comfort issue, and when you first meet someone in the flesh that you've been carrying on correspondence with, that's pretty stressful and so the ice doesn't always immediately break despite having had prior communication.

I think most people would understand that, so as long as it wasn't a complete fiasco that made her actively hostile to you, a second meeting that can easily go better would be open to you.

With Regards to Moi:

Coid: just stop talking to her. People like that aren't worth your time, and you're not going to be the person to get her to change your ways. Perhaps one day she'll realize what she's doing is stupid and wrong and you can be friends again, but in the mean time it isn't worth enduring the shaming and privacy invasions, in my opinion.

Mostly I was just confused about the trying to shame me thing, since, well, I'm a guy. I've even pointed this out to them, but they don't seem to get it. I thought it was a brief, rather stupid interlude or injoke of some sort.

As it stands though, I'm mostly just looking for suggestions for my spiel to her as I bar her formally from ever entering the house again, possibly even an explanation that might sink into her brain at some point, so that the thought that what she did was wrong might cross her mind.


Coid: Let's break this into component parts:

The names she calls you are a disincentive to talk to her again. I mean, I'm all for gender equity; if you'd slug a guy, go ahead and slug her. I just find that people do that **** for a rise. Either stop putting up with them, or stop taking their bait and giving them what they want.

I'd mostly been ignoring the two girls in this aspect, aside from pointing out that the woman who went from only having slept with 4 guys to having slept with 40, often back to back, in less than two week's time did not have a leg to stand upon for haranguing anyone about one night stands ever. So, except when a third party was requiring passing of information, I'd been ignoring the one that's been doing it the most (the other one just joined in one time to mock me and got promptly shut down for sleeping with anything that moves that isn't her fiance), but was kinda hoping that not getting a reaction from me would cause it to get old after pointing out that this was a very foolish thing, I've since made a single request to desist from such behavior. If either of them were guys I'd've already enacted casual violence upon them in order to at least cause them to conform to their stated ethical framework while in my presence, as one can do that without being branded an evil misogynist who must die.


Searching your room like that would be a violation of your trust even if she were a housemate. And I say this as someone who understands that there are plenty of legitimate reason's to go into a housemate's room. I'd have to know her relationship with your other housemates to say anything for sure, but if you're the only one she's on any sort of terms with, you can tell the people you live with that she's not allowed in unless you expressly invite her. Trespassing after that should be treated like any other trespasser.

The story as a whole sounds like someone acting out because they feel that they can without consequences. The exact details are probably more than the time/stomach lining you care to waste.

Indeed, the more annoying one(the one that snuck into my room, as the one who calls me whore is just kind of confusing, as it seems almost like she's parroting it after hearing someone use it as a term of affection and mock insult for banter purposes) has been living a life where people have been protecting her from consequences. She is quite lucky I did not find out until she had already left.

I'm perfectly fine with people in my room, I've even doubled up with people in my bed when there's not been enough space to sleep, which I suppose is what prompted her to be a rude and nosy person and violate my trust. I rather dislike people getting into my porn stash or messing with my collection of a few treasured objects all the same though.

Unfortunately, she's one of the main contributors to the planner new year's party that is being held here, so as much as I want to ban her from the house immediately, I'm going to have to wait until after New Year's or until I have more than hearsay even if the hearsay is pretty reliable in general.

Because while she's on thin ice already with my other housemate, the third and final housemate here is head over heels "in love" with her and has been one of the people she's been using to avoid responsibility(like, say, instead of ever learning to drink responsibly, especially after she claims to have been date raped after drinking so much she blacked out, she designates one person to have to decide how much she can drink.... and then tries to drink everything in the house behind their back) and sponge resources, affection, and transportation off of, and he's been one of the few she hasn't paid off with her body to do so either. I suppose she still has the social acumen to not want it known to the entire social circle that she trades her body in exchange for favors from strange men....

[Tyndmyr]

There's the meat market, the neighborhood pub where one can stop over and have a pint and a bite of something decent together and/or converse with friends without anyone having to play host or hostess, and the pool hall in disguise as bar types that I've discovered so far.

I believe there's also ones where one goes to have a gin and tonic or two and listen to music, but I've yet to discover them personally.

Oh, there's rather a lot of bar types. For instance, there's the traditional sports bar. There's also the brewpub, which is often a fun experience. My personal favorite is the high end classic cocktail bar. Unfortunately, they are uncommon, but if you can find one, it's totally worth checking it out.


Ok, so. Met a girl through OKCupid, and we've been texting back and forth for a while. I like her, and it was obvious even to someone as oblivious as me that she's interested as well. Today, for our first irl meeting, she asked if I'd like to accompany her on a 3 hour drive from here to an errand she had to run and back. Disregarding one of the prime rules of first dates (don't be in a situation where you are the main source of entertainment for the other person), I said yes...with predictable results. It wasn't a complete disaster, but it definitely could have gone better. As eloquent, charming (or so she says) and long-winded as I am in text, I am...not always so in person, especially during first meetings. Thus, the evening was spent in pleasant but sputtering conversations once I realized that "holy **** I have no idea how to act around actual people", and I could almost feel myself running into the bar I'd set, knocking it over like so many Jenga towers toppled by an unsteady hand.

Sounds awkward, but don't blame yourself too much...a three hour drive to do an errand is not the ideal suggestion for a first date, and honestly, first date awkwardness happens rather a lot.


She seemed disappointed, is the point I'm trying to make.

And naturally, right now I am just filled with things I shoulda, coulda, woulda said. Just to make my failure complete. :smallsigh: *headdesk*

I mean...I know I'm charming, witty, and halfway to handsome on a good day. Today was just not a good day.

I am, however, pretty sure that it can be salvaged. I am just unsure of how to go about that, and more importantly, how to ensure that I don't freeze up again. Help me, GitP. You're my only hope.

Well, first, don't beat yourself up too much over it. Going over better things you thought up after the fact is pretty normal, but it also rarely does much other than make you feel more stressed about it.

Consider the worst possible outcome: You go your separate ways, but you've gained some valuable experience in dealing with people in unfamiliar and awkward situations. This is a useful, if hard-gotten skill. If this happens, at least you're better prepared for next time around, and nobody's the worse off for it.

On the other hand, if the first date was a bit of a bust, and she's still interested, that's a good sign. Come up with a different sort of suggestion for another date, one in which you're hopeful that you'll both feel comfortable, and in which other topics of conversation will naturally present themselves. If the previous awkwardness comes up, blame it on an off day, apologize briefly, but don't dwell on it. Too much focus on the awkwardness just prolongs it.

[DeadManSleeping]

You can enter bars at any age over here, some events have 14/16/18 but that's usually just the occasional event at clubs. And drink light alcohols from 16+ and strong from 18+

The title, it doesn't apply to my country.:smalltongue:
But yeah, bar-hopping is good fun.

I knew all this, but "RWA 21: Screw the Dutch" seemed a bit inflammatory. :smallwink: I think the US is the only place with a drinking age of 21 anyway.

[RabbitHoleLost]

Its strange to keep seeing my younger friends, who graduated two or three years after me, getting married.

Especially since I have yet to have a lasting relationship, or feel emotionally attached to anyone for more then seven or eight months and I start to think that something is seriously wrong with me.

[Lissou]

You messed up your spoiler tags. :smallsmile:

Thanks, fixed it.

[Sholos]

Am I the only person around who can get a girl to agree to meet irl, seem enthusiastic about it, and then have her completely disappear? I mean no contact for the past month. Nothing. Nada. I'm beginning to seriously doubt my chances at ever being loved.

[Tyndmyr]

Am I the only person around who can get a girl to agree to meet irl, seem enthusiastic about it, and then have her completely disappear? I mean no contact for the past month. Nothing. Nada. I'm beginning to seriously doubt my chances at ever being loved.

It's the internet...that happens a lot. People are much more willing to make contact online than in person, because of the anonymity barrier...but once it comes time to make the transition to real life, a lot of people just don't want to do it.

[Sholos]

It's the internet...that happens a lot. People are much more willing to make contact online than in person, because of the anonymity barrier...but once it comes time to make the transition to real life, a lot of people just don't want to do it.

Its just annoying, because she seemed enthusiastic for several weeks and stuff just kept coming up (she got sick, exams). I'm probably also taking it harder because this sort of thing seems to happen to me a lot, even in real life. There must be something horribly wrong with me that makes people forget about me, but heck if I know what it is.

[Reluctance]

Its just annoying, because she seemed enthusiastic for several weeks and stuff just kept coming up (she got sick, exams). I'm probably also taking it harder because this sort of thing seems to happen to me a lot, even in real life. There must be something horribly wrong with me that makes people forget about me, but heck if I know what it is.

The putting things off bit, or the evaporation? The former sounds like someone who's just making excuses. I've saved a lot of time with one simple rule; if she breaks the date, it's her responsibility to set up the next one.

The evaporation sounds like you're not striking when the iron is hot. Move early, and if she keeps you in limbo, don't give her any more thought than you would any other pen pal. If she's talking with you, it's likely that she's talking to other guys at the same time. You don't get the romcom gradual ramp up. You either get friendzoned, or you get forgotten entirely as all her time gets drawn in by the new beau.

[term1nally s1ck]

In my experience, women are much more prone to making decisions on what they do based on how they feel about it, rather than how they think about it.

If she's enjoying a conversation with you, then she's more likely to feel good about meeting up irl. Later on, when she's thinking about actually meeting up, if she doesn't feel good about it anymore, she'll just not do it. The justification of it comes later. (This also explains the MUCH higher tendency for women to ask questions like 'how do you feel about it', because it matters more to how most women tend to make decisions.).

Once the decision to not meet up has been made, telling you she's changed her mind is *hard*. And since you're only online friends, she can simply not talk to you instead, which is much much easier.

From what you've described, it sounds like you're doing something that makes her nervous or less excited about the meeting up, and that's causing the change of mind.

Examples of things that could potentially cause this include:

Bringing up the meeting/event regularly, making it seem like you're far more invested in the meeting than she is, causing her to feel nervous about it.

Talking to her much more frequently after the meeting is organised, making her feel like you consider this a major step, again making her nervous about it.

It's this kind of natural shift that you've probably been doing unconciously. She's interpreting it stronger than it is, and it's making her uncomfortable, which makes her change her mind about the meeting.

[DeadManSleeping]

In my experience, women are much more prone to making decisions on what they do based on how they feel about it, rather than how they think about it.

If she's enjoying a conversation with you, then she's more likely to feel good about meeting up irl. Later on, when she's thinking about actually meeting up, if she doesn't feel good about it anymore, she'll just not do it. The justification of it comes later. (This also explains the MUCH higher tendency for women to ask questions like 'how do you feel about it', because it matters more to how most women tend to make decisions.).

I hate to break it to you, pal, but males do that pretty often too. People of both sexes are equally prone to acting on "feelings" rather than "thoughts" (if it really is possible to separate the two). You can influence someone to invest money in something by manipulating their feelings rather than convincing them of the value logically, and there is negligible difference between the sexes on how successful this is.

But there's certainly merit to the thought that outside factors influence someone's propensity to talk to you. No matter how much you like someone, if you are in a bad mood, you are less likely to attempt a positive interaction. And that leads to further desire to put off future positive interaction, since you had no desire to do it the last time. That's just life for you.

[Sholos]

The putting things off bit, or the evaporation? The former sounds like someone who's just making excuses. I've saved a lot of time with one simple rule; if she breaks the date, it's her responsibility to set up the next one.

The evaporation sounds like you're not striking when the iron is hot. Move early, and if she keeps you in limbo, don't give her any more thought than you would any other pen pal. If she's talking with you, it's likely that she's talking to other guys at the same time. You don't get the romcom gradual ramp up. You either get friendzoned, or you get forgotten entirely as all her time gets drawn in by the new beau.

Joy and fun times. Anyone have any advice for the perpetually unloved?

[Dvil]

Joy and fun times. Anyone have any advice for the perpetually unloved?

Stop persuading yourself it's your fault?

Seriously though, it's largely luck. Just be awesome, remember that you're awesome, and keep meeting people till you find someone who realises how awesome you are. It's pretty clichéd, but it's not bad as advice goes.

[Coidzor]

Am I the only person around who can get a girl to agree to meet irl, seem enthusiastic about it, and then have her completely disappear? I mean no contact for the past month. Nothing. Nada. I'm beginning to seriously doubt my chances at ever being loved.

I've had that happen to me with friends that I hadn't seen in a couple of months.

The last time I brought it up in the thread I was basically told that if I was lucky she wasn't actively going around and lying to every other woman I know behind my back for having attempted to contact her at all.

The time before that was a friend from high school who accused me of wanting to date-rape her when I mentioned casually that it'd be good to see her again and that it'd been too long since we had under the unfortunate circumstances of her breakup with my freshman year room-mate.

To put it mildly it's kind of crummy.

So basically all you can do is drop it, put your best foot forward, and have some face to face interaction as much as you can to wear away any rough edges and, y'know, maximize potential with people in the area.

[term1nally s1ck]

I hate to break it to you, pal, but males do that pretty often too. People of both sexes are equally prone to acting on "feelings" rather than "thoughts" (if it really is possible to separate the two). You can influence someone to invest money in something by manipulating their feelings rather than convincing them of the value logically, and there is negligible difference between the sexes on how successful this is.

But there's certainly merit to the thought that outside factors influence someone's propensity to talk to you. No matter how much you like someone, if you are in a bad mood, you are less likely to attempt a positive interaction. And that leads to further desire to put off future positive interaction, since you had no desire to do it the last time. That's just life for you.

There's a *major* difference in the frequency. I've spent 2 years watching to figure out what makes the 'battle of the sexes' such a constant, and that's one of the major differences I noted. Men adjust feelings based on what they can justify, women adjust their justifications based on their feelings. It's weird, but the results match reality to a surprisingly high accuracy.

[Reluctance]

There's a *major* difference in the frequency. I've spent 2 years watching to figure out what makes the 'battle of the sexes' such a constant, and that's one of the major differences I noted. Men adjust feelings based on what they can justify, women adjust their justifications based on their feelings. It's weird, but the results match reality to a surprisingly high accuracy.

Women don't have to be as result-minded because, at least at your age, men let them get away with it. So long as people will support and validate someone for what they're doing, why change? That's unisex (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15MwhPv3Ud4).

[Coidzor]

Women don't have to be as result-minded because, at least at your age, men let them get away with it. So long as people will support and validate someone for what they're doing, why change? That's unisex (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15MwhPv3Ud4).

Indeed, the worst part is when you encounter someone like that and you're the one person who doesn't have pointless hots for them, so you actually tell them the truth about something and the entire world flips out at you like an ape who got eggs sunny side up rather than scrambled for breakfast.

[term1nally s1ck]

Ironically, the most attractive women, who have dozens of men every day falling over themselves to fulfil their every whim, will invariably be most attracted to the people who don't behave the way they want.

[Moonshadow]

Okay, so, the girl whom I was talking to up until the end of November that I asked out and she suddenly had to bail and stopped talking to me?

Well, she got back into contact with me a week ago and said that she wanted to start over. I was cool with this, so we've been talking for the past week and getting along great, and so I asked her out to lunch and a movie (because hey I figured we already knew each other from before and I didn't want to sit around and get friendzoned yadda yadda yadda) and she said sure. I was planning to hammer out the plans sometime this week after I got paid.

Anyways, things going great, she wishes me a happy new year the day before in case she might not be around on new years... and now suddenly her new OkCupid account is gone again, but I didn't even get a "I'm sorry I have to bail again" message this time.


So, I'm really confused, and hoping that it was just some sort of mistake, because there were no prior indicators to tell me that something was wrong and that she'd have to suddenly disappear again. So I'm just hoping that it was some sort of drunken shenanigans.

I don't have any other way to get into contact with her except for an email address that she was supposed to add me to msn with but never did so I don't even know if it's the real thing or not.

I'm so confused :smallconfused:

[Lonely Tylenol]

Okay, so, the girl whom I was talking to up until the end of November that I asked out and she suddenly had to bail and stopped talking to me?

Well, she got back into contact with me a week ago and said that she wanted to start over. I was cool with this, so we've been talking for the past week and getting along great, and so I asked her out to lunch and a movie (because hey I figured we already knew each other from before and I didn't want to sit around and get friendzoned yadda yadda yadda) and she said sure. I was planning to hammer out the plans sometime this week after I got paid.

Anyways, things going great, she wishes me a happy new year the day before in case she might not be around on new years... and now suddenly her new OkCupid account is gone again, but I didn't even get a "I'm sorry I have to bail again" message this time.


So, I'm really confused, and hoping that it was just some sort of mistake, because there were no prior indicators to tell me that something was wrong and that she'd have to suddenly disappear again. So I'm just hoping that it was some sort of drunken shenanigans.

I don't have any other way to get into contact with her except for an email address that she was supposed to add me to msn with but never did so I don't even know if it's the real thing or not.

I'm so confused :smallconfused:

My advice would be: don't hold your breath for her to show up a third time.

For me, this line is most telling of your story:


I don't even know if it's the real thing or not

I know you're talking about an e-mail address and I'm just mincing words, but it really is telling of the situation as a whole: she disappeared (again) with no real, sure-fire way for you to get a hold of her. Whatever her motivations (apprehension over meeting someone from online, of things finally "happening"? Change of plans in her personal life?), she has made herself unavailable to even contact, which makes moving forward from here very difficult unless she makes a move.

If it's meant to happen, it'll happen. Just don't hold your breath or anything.

OK, now to make a total hypocrite of myself:

About seven months ago, my ex dumped me for the second (and thus far, the last) time. We had been together for a long time (not counting the first breakup through our getting back together), and I loved her, a lot. I really did. So much, so, that I was planning out how I was going to propose to her when she dumped me. She didn't know until long after the fact. (It was going to be an 11:11 11/11/11 thing. I'll spare you the details, but that part factors in here.)

Anyway, I was pretty thrown by the whole thing, but I accepted it, and we stayed close friends. I still wanted to be with her and she still wanted to be with me, but unlike myself, that all seemed much too SIMPLE for her or something. So she mostly flip-flopped on whether she wanted to be with me for the next few months after that, going between hour+-long phone calls late at night about her feelings for me and how they're dead, or not dead, or she's trying to kill them, or do I love her anymore, or would I like to go see a movie; the narrative changed often. After enduring this for a few months, having still been wary of the fact that I had already been dumped twice before, I leveled an ultimatum with her: if we get back together, that's the end of it: the final death of our relationship. If she dumps me a third time and then can't handle it maturely, I am cutting off all ties with her. Until she could accept that level of commitment, I encouraged her to see other people.

Things mostly quieted down after that. We weren't going to the same college anymore--I began pursuing a higher-level degree online and she still had prereqs to shore up locally--and we simply didn't see each other anymore. We still talked, and she still told me about her feelings and whatnot, but ultimately, I was moving on. Suddenly, after a time, I got a call from her, telling me she needed to speak to me in person. Thus began an hour-long drive to meet her in town, followed by a tear-filled confession of about how she still loves me, how she still thinks about what we used to have, and about how she has tried to move on--she even went on a date!--but hasn't been able to. That night, her cousin ended a months-long feu/silent treatment he initiated with me (after I defended her over something not at all related to this narrative) to tell me that she still talks about me every day, about how much she still loves me, about how he knew I would always treat her right (expressing respect over the fact that I DID risk confrontation by standing up to him), and how he could tell just from looking at us that what we had was special--a once-in-a-lifetime thing--and it'd be a DAMN shame if I were to just let her go.

All of this coincided neatly with the date I planned to propose to her in the first place, and I was already bent out of shape over it, and I told her on 11/11/11 (the next day) that I wanted to give a relationship another try.

She said no.

She said that she really DID want to try to get over me, and that she was going to keep trying her hardest to.

Utterly deflated, I decided that, at the least, that was closure--which is something I had been LITERALLY BEGGING FOR OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS BY THEN--and resolved to move on myself.

Cut to three days ago. I get a call from her telling me she needs to talk to me, and she needs to do it in person. Like a sucker, I agreed to drive out an hour into town to see her the next day (she's dressed to the 9s, to meet me as I run errands about the town--guess where this is going), where she tells me that she's still in love with me. I told her I know, you've told me dozens of times since we last broke up, is this going somewhere this time? She seems off-put by the fact that I'm not shocked by this revelation, or impressed that I drove across the island to hear it, and tells me as much, but ultimately spends the next several hours trying to do whatever she can to elongate the meeting (even though I am so tired that I literally nodded off behind the wheel). Being the complacent sucker that I am, I let it happen. When it's finally time to go, I walk her to her car, we hug (for an uncomfortably long period of time, considering), I walk to my car down the lot, get in, begin to drive away. She's staring forlornly at me the whole time, watching me go.

Being the sucker that I am...

I pull up, let her in the car, and she tells me that she literally can't get over me; that she ended it with the person she started dating BECAUSE she felt that she couldn't see someone else while she was still in love with me; that she would rather be alone than with anybody else; that she tried to kiss me when she pulled me in for that goodbye hug, and failed because I turned away and she shied off as a result. She says that she still wants to stay single (!) right now, but she felt that I really needed to know all this, and that she wants to give me another shot when she feels ready, maybe even soon.

But here's the thing: I DIDN'T need to know all this. For the last six months, I have consistently wanted only one thing from her: closure. I'm fine with us being just friends, and I'm fine with us being together on whatever level, as long as she takes decisive action on what she REALLY wants. If she is with me, then she is with me; if she is not, she is not. Whatever the case may be, I just want to put this whole matter to bed. I have gone so far as to get on bent knee, tears in my eyes, BEGGING for her to make up her mind and stop screwing with both of our emotions with her indecisiveness. I will be to her whatever makes her happiest, whatever that may be.

But that CLEARLY ISN'T HAPPENING!

For my part, I've moved on, I really have... Or... Have I... At the very least, I am accepting of whatever the outcome of all this may be... But there is no outcome... HRNGH THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING! WHAT THE HELL DO I DO?!

[Reluctance]

Do you have any mutual friends?

I totally get the whole "I want what I can't have" thing and the nuttiness it entails. But as long as she can have her cake and eat it too, she'll waffle. You either need to put your foot down and cut ties (worst case scenario, I know that this feels like cutting out something vital), or find some way to enforce distance. If you have friends who can act as a buffer, they'll allow some level of contact without the roller coaster you're currently on. They'll also probably be more objective about how ready you guys are to actually get together.

It might even be worth trying to get in touch with some of her friends, if you can trust them to stay level headed and not take sides. The point being, you two need space. This is the least-worst option I've been able to think up when I've been in that spot myself.

[Moonshadow]

Do you have any mutual friends?

I totally get the whole "I want what I can't have" thing and the nuttiness it entails. But as long as she can have her cake and eat it too, she'll waffle. You either need to put your foot down and cut ties (worst case scenario, I know that this feels like cutting out something vital), or find some way to enforce distance. If you have friends who can act as a buffer, they'll allow some level of contact without the roller coaster you're currently on. They'll also probably be more objective about how ready you guys are to actually get together.

It might even be worth trying to get in touch with some of her friends, if you can trust them to stay level headed and not take sides. The point being, you two need space. This is the least-worst option I've been able to think up when I've been in that spot myself.

Cake AND waffles? Sounds like a trip to the dentist just waiting to happen.



My advice would be: don't hold your breath for her to show up a third time.

For me, this line is most telling of your story:



I know you're talking about an e-mail address and I'm just mincing words, but it really is telling of the situation as a whole: she disappeared (again) with no real, sure-fire way for you to get a hold of her. Whatever her motivations (apprehension over meeting someone from online, of things finally "happening"? Change of plans in her personal life?), she has made herself unavailable to even contact, which makes moving forward from here very difficult unless she makes a move.

If it's meant to happen, it'll happen. Just don't hold your breath or anything.

Oh, I'm not. In fact, I'm really more "...okay? Meh." about it, to be honest. I mean, I wasn't ever expecting her to contact me ever again anyways, so really, hearing from her a second time was already a surprise.

I mean, I've sent her an email and hope that it gets there and I get an explanation, but otherwise I'll not worried about it. I'm just hoping that it was just some new years shenanigans.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Do you have any mutual friends?

Just about all of them. Her group of friends is pretty much a subset of mine.


I totally get the whole "I want what I can't have" thing and the nuttiness it entails. But as long as she can have her cake and eat it too, she'll waffle. You either need to put your foot down and cut ties (worst case scenario, I know that this feels like cutting out something vital), or find some way to enforce distance. If you have friends who can act as a buffer, they'll allow some level of contact without the roller coaster you're currently on. They'll also probably be more objective about how ready you guys are to actually get together.

It might even be worth trying to get in touch with some of her friends, if you can trust them to stay level headed and not take sides. The point being, you two need space. This is the least-worst option I've been able to think up when I've been in that spot myself.

Space has already sorta been created by the demands of my education program. I haven't really spoken to any of them in months (barring the odd interjection or event), since I live so far away from everyone and the circumstances of my work/schooling don't take me into town anymore.

I'd rather not cut ties with her; it would devastate her, especially since she hasn't been the most stable in all this, emotionally speaking, and it would likely have much deeper implications for her social life (like if these friends do take sides, it may well be with me).

I do feel I need to put my foot down, though. It's time I stop rolling over and being so damn accepting of this whole situation.

[Castaras]

Just be awesome, remember that you're awesome, and keep meeting people till you find someone who realises how awesome you are.


This. Just this. This here advice, should be followed by everyone.

[Rawhide]

This. Just this. This here advice, should be followed by everyone.

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/2/2/a110b8e4-cfb0-4d21-b55f-e2277ccca76b.jpg

[DeadManSleeping]

@L_T: Quote unquote "love" isn't what you need in a relationship. Love is. The difference is what keeps you from breaking up in the first place. However much you might get butterflies, or however much you can't imagine anything wrong about them when you're apart, if you've shown that you can't be together, then stop trying. I know it doesn't feel like that's the right thing to do right now. All those messed-up chemicals in your brain are telling you to stay attached to this person. But you shouldn't. We've evolved to continue procreation, not to lead happy lives. You gotta fight evolution sometimes. We now live in a world where, no matter how many people you know that you want to get out of your life, you have over a million potential replacements waiting to be found.

The best healer is not closure. It is time. You may have all these fuzzy feelings telling you to let her close...but don't listen to them. Any healer knows that there are bad parts you just gotta cut out.

@term1nal: it sounds like you're saying men are more "reasonable" than women. Meanwhile, I'm immersed in a life where the half men are little balls of drama and half the women are calculating about far too much of their life. I'm not sure why your observations don't match up with mine, but I can assure you that our ways of dealing with emotions are much more cultural than biological. You should account for what environment your subjects are raised in before you apply a standard to the entire species.

[Coidzor]

...What is the accepted etiquette for getting people to stop having sex on your living room floor so that you can go to sleep? :smallconfused: Because I wasn't sure if I should unleash the dog and let it interrupt them or if I should dump water on top of them that I would then have to clean up.

[NineThePuma]

...What is the accepted etiquette for getting people to stop having sex on your living room floor so that you can go to sleep? :smallconfused: Because I wasn't sure if I should unleash the dog and let it interrupt them or if I should dump water on top of them that I would then have to clean up.

It's the dog.

[Coidzor]

It's the dog.

Mmm, only problem was that the dog only temporarily distracted them and he eventually wandered over to say hello to everyone else and they just started up again.

Oh well.

On a related note, does anyone recall what you're supposed to do with keys to prevent people from taking them in an inebriated state?

[NineThePuma]

I conceal keys in one of the storage closets.

[Metalmind]

Hello, long time reader, first time poster.

I am nineteen years old, just finished my first term of University. I am not sure about this whole relationship business. What purpose does it fulfill in one's life? What does one gain from it that they do not have from it? Do people get into relationships because they have certain biological urges that they feel the need to fulfill, or is it because they want to become closer to another person?

Thank you for your time.

[Objection]

Hello, long time reader, first time poster.

I am nineteen years old, just finished my first term of University. I am not sure about this whole relationship business. What purpose does it fulfill in one's life? What does one gain from it that they do not have from it? Do people get into relationships because they have certain biological urges that they feel the need to fulfill, or is it because they want to become closer to another person?

Thank you for your time.

Well, some of the things you gain from a friendship are:

Someone you can trust
Someone who can cover your weaknesses while you can cover theirs
Someone to help you feel more confident in yourself

Perhaps those apply to relationships as well? There's also the kids factor with relationships - after all, if you're going to have children, you want it to be with someone who will be a good parent alongside you, right?

[Wyntonian]

This isn't so much an immediate issue as it is a little piece of advice.

When suggesting, implying willingness, etc., for any act of sexytimes, please, please don't say "I'd be ok with it if you are, I guess." :smallannoyed: Seriously? It's not like choosing a restaurant. (Possibility that that's just my experience duly noted.) It's a serious, potentially life-changing decision, and is even more important when its one of the people in question's first times (it wasn't mine in this case, but still.) If all you have to say is "I'd be ok with it", I'm not really interested in taking part, especially if you're a long-term partner. I'm willing to wait until you're more than just lukewarm ambivalent.

/Rant.

I'm done, sorry, needed to get that out.

[DeadManSleeping]

Haha. Metalmind thinks we have an answer. How cute.

Look, you can approach it from biology, psychology, philosophy, sociology, or whatever, but you're never going to get a perfectly satisfactory answer on why relationships happen. Honestly, different people pursue different relationships for different reasons. If you want to be happy in life, I recommend pursuing any kind of relationship that makes you happy, and none of the other kinds.

Oh, and no matter what you do, it's going to cause all kinds of annoying drama because no two people can agree on what relationships should exist and in what manner.

So, I suppose I do have an answer to your question: people get in relationships because there is an intelligent force behind the universe and it takes pleasure in our misery. :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

What purpose does it fulfill in one's life? What does one gain from it that they do not have from it?

Myriad things, generally subtly different from one relationship or person in a relationship to the next, though there's a few broad categories that are roughly similar enough to classify together.

Things like companionship, emotional intimacy, a secure supply of sex, a framework from which to have offspring and create a family, economic security, social advancement, an extra pair of hands around the farm.

But then, you knew that already. So I'm not quite sure what you're asking or why you're asking it.

If you want to be told to want one, that isn't our place or job. You either do or you don't and do whatever thou wilt so long as it harm none, or however the saying goes.


Do people get into relationships because they have certain biological urges that they feel the need to fulfill, or is it because they want to become closer to another person?

Yes. Both. Neither. There's not even necessarily a difference between the two things on either side of the "or," there. Nor are those the only options, even as vague as they are.

Alternatively, this is one of the better ways of encapsulating life in general in addition to this facet of it.
So, I suppose I do have an answer to your question: people get in relationships because there is an intelligent force behind the universe and it takes pleasure in our misery. :smalltongue:


When suggesting, implying willingness, etc., for any act of sexytimes, please, please don't say "I'd be ok with it if you are, I guess." :smallannoyed: Seriously? It's not like choosing a restaurant. (Possibility that that's just my experience duly noted.) It's a serious, potentially life-changing decision, and is even more important when its one of the people in question's first times (it wasn't mine in this case, but still.) If all you have to say is "I'd be ok with it", I'm not really interested in taking part, especially if you're a long-term partner. I'm willing to wait until you're more than just lukewarm ambivalent.

Kind of an odd thing to say. You did probe further to figure out where that came from though, right? Because that kind of statement doesn't seem the type to come from a sourceless apathy.

[Morph Bark]

I knew all this, but "RWA 21: Screw the Dutch" seemed a bit inflammatory. :smallwink: I think the US is the only place with a drinking age of 21 anyway.

Oh you might inflame people alright. *WINK*

Does remind me though that I never learned what the age of consent here is. Not like it really matters now. :smalltongue:

Also: Drinking age list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age). Curiously enough, the 21 limit is mostly seen in Islamic countries.


Just be awesome, remember that you're awesome, and keep meeting people till you find someone who realises how awesome you are.

You know what? I am going to link one of the most awesome and inspiring (to me) speeches in a movie I've seen so far and you are all going to watch it, because if you got a problem, you just need to turn on your awesome.

DO IT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYzVL0vI-kI).

[rogueboy]

Also: Drinking age list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age). Curiously enough, the 21 limit is mostly seen in Islamic countries.

I haven't actually looked through the list to see what we're defining as Islamic countries here, but this surprises me, since Islam forbids the consumption of alcohol entirely. My surprise may be that I'm thinking of the more conservative countries (Iran, for example) when I hear "Islamic countries" rather than the more liberal, but still generally Islamic (in the same way that the US is generally Christian), such as Jordan.


You know what? I am going to link one of the most awesome and inspiring (to me) speeches in a movie I've seen so far and you are all going to watch it, because if you got a problem, you just need to turn on your awesome.

DO IT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYzVL0vI-kI).

That was outstanding. Thank you for that.

[Pika...]

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d144/onecrowe/smiley_panic.gif
OK, so I just, just scheduled my first date with a girl...ever...and it is for Valentine's Day...


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa464/girlee-girl/emotions/panicbutton.gif


...OK, now that that is out of my system on to the thread.


I figure flowers and chocolates are not cliche/out of date nowadays? If not, what do you all suggest I get for her?

Roses? Something else?

And what kind/how expensive should the chocolates be?

I am also thinking of getting a few random chocolates/candies for her five little siblings (most toddlers and such), and perhaps some chocolates/a token for the mother (no father in the picture). Good idea? Bad idea?



Many Pikas in advance!

[Lady Moreta]

Roses are always nice - since it's a first date, you could get yellow ones, which signify friendship, rather than red for love.

If you'd rather not do roses, or would prefer to avoid the horrendous price mark-ups florists do on Valentine's Day, then something bright and cheerful like Gerberas are always good. Or you could pick a colour (say one you know she likes) and ask a florist to do you up a bouquet with flowers of that specific colour. You can give them a price and they'll make up a bouquet according to what you can spend.

Chocolates are a little more tricky. I would recommend trying to find out what type of chocolates she likes, because tastes can be very specific. Considering that she may not even like chocolates. If you can't, then I would get a box of something that has a mixture of chocolates, ones with fillings and ones without, light and dark chocolate. That way you're more likely to find something that she likes and she can share them if she doesn't like them after all. If you're not sure of exactly what she likes, then make it a smallish box, so you don't spend too much and she won't feel too bad if you accidentally get something she's not too fussed on.

As for the rest of the family, I don't see any reason for you to need to get anything for them. You're dating her, not the entire family. On the first date, it would feel like too much, like you're trying too hard. If there is ever an occassion when you're invited over to meet the family, or for dinner or a family outing or something, that's when you break out the gifts for the family. Not on your first date.

[Tebryn]

You don't do either. It seems like you're trying to hard. Keep it low key.

[Lady Moreta]

Oh, I don't know. I think it's kinda sweet :smallsmile: I certainly wouldn't be complaining if a guy gave me flowers and chocolates on a first date. Especially as that first date is Valentine's Day.

If you're worried about appearing too keen Pika, nix the chocolates and just get her a nice bunch of flowers. That way you also have time to find out her chocolate preferences and make sure you get the right ones.

[Pika...]

As usual, you're awesome Lady Moreta. Many Pikas! :smallbiggrin:



You don't do either. It seems like you're trying to hard. Keep it low key.

Well, it's my first date, and it would be Valentine's Day. I feel like I shoud get her something. :smallredface:

[Savannah]

Personally, I'd be a wee bit creeped out by someone giving me flowers and chocolates on a first date.

In addition to Lady Moreta's advice to make sure she likes chocolates if you get them, I'd also make sure she is okay with flowers, as I know people who are horribly allergic to flowers. Not the impression you want to make.

[Circle of Life]

I second the yellow roses, provided they aren't out of your budget. A small (~15 piece, depending on the brand) assortment box of chocolates would be a good tag along for Valentine's Day. You needn't be excessive with the flowers either, even a single yellow rose will do just fine. It is a first date, after all.

[Pika...]

Well, budget will be OK. She wants to go to the movies, which is not too expensive, and for a restaurant before-hand I offered to take her to whatever her favorite was and she chose Wendy's, so a lucky break there. :smallbiggrin:

[Moonshadow]

I wouldn't do flowers or chocolates. For one, you're just giving into the Valentine's Day hype. Instead, I suggest that you tell her that you'd like to pay for the first date, and if she objects, tell her she can pay for the 2nd one.

But yeah, honestly, flowers and chocolates seems a bit try hard to me.

[Flickerdart]

Cactus. Can you get your hands on a blooming cactus?

[Pika...]

I wouldn't do flowers or chocolates. For one, you're just giving into the Valentine's Day hype. Instead, I suggest that you tell her that you'd like to pay for the first date, and if she objects, tell her she can pay for the 2nd one.

But yeah, honestly, flowers and chocolates seems a bit try hard to me.

I thought the guy paying was a given?



Cactus. Can you get your hands on a blooming cactus?

Um, that's an interesting concept I guess...

[Worira]

I think a better question might be why you're scheduling your first date both more than a month in advance, and for Valentine's Day to boot.

[Mutant Sheep]

It IS best to schedule Valentines day dates early. Way early.:smallwink:

[Flickerdart]

Um, that's an interesting concept I guess...
http://suncitiestoday.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/cactusflowers.jpg

They get quite beautiful, you know, just google it.

And a cactus is far more versatile than a rose. It says either "unlike a rose, which quickly dies, our relationship will be both beautiful and enduring" or if you're not attractive/grumpy, "it's what's inside that counts". Or, if you get one shaped like a wiener, it says something entirely different.

[Pika...]

I think a better question might be why you're scheduling your first date both more than a month in advance, and for Valentine's Day to boot.

I asked her out, she chose the date. Eh, I thought Valentine's was this month? :smallfrown:

[Skeppio]

I asked her out, she chose the date. Eh, I thought Valentine's was this month? :smallfrown:

Valentine's Day is in February, good sir.

[Tragic_Comedian]

Well, normally I'd say not to get her anything on the first date, but seeing as it is Valentine's Day... Don't do anything too fancy. Small chocolates. Small thing of flowers.

[Xyk]

Relax, man. Try not to overthink it, because you have soooo much time. If it were me, I'd pick up some flowers that I thought looked pretty and were not symbolic of anything (like roses are). Chocolates are probably too much.

[Worira]

Well, just about every flower is symbolic of something or other (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_flowers), the symbolism just isn't as widely known as for roses. I'd also suggest avoiding roses, though, both for previously mentioned reasons and because roses are crazy expensive around Valentine's Day.

[GAThraawn]

My personal opinons are as follows: Giving her nothing on the first date is acceptable, and possibly even expected. Giving her anything probably displays an attitude that you genuinely care, which is a good thing. Giving her too much could come across as trying too hard, and be a little off-putting. Obviously, none of us know what she would consider too much.
I think chocolates, or flowers, would both be safe bets, and that both together are likely on the upper end of acceptable. I can imagine some women being flattered and some being a little overwhelmed, but probably not very many (read: only the crazy ones you don't want to be dating) that would use that as their reason to never see you again. Giving her a pony, probably going overboard.

If it were me, however, I'd make the effort to go beyond the classic flowers and chocolate, and try and get her something different. Something original. You do have nearly a month and a half to come up with ideas, I think you'd impress her much more with something personal and unique, rather than the ubiquetous flowers.

Admittedly, the first time I gave my girlfriend a gift was at Christmas, before we were dating, and Christmas gifts can be a different thing entirely than first date gifts, but I bought her an interesting scarf, that I thought she would like, lined a small gift box with it, and laid down in it a plush fox. (I happened to know she loved foxes). So when she opened it, she got a stuffed animal lying on a bed of scarf. This all cost me about $20, which is what you might spend on a good box of chocolates, or a nice bouquet. However, two years later, she still cuddles the fox and wears the scarf when she wants to be reminded of me, and they have much greater sentimental value than some chocolates.

So, my recommendation would be to get her something, probably around $20 or less, so you don't seem to be trying too hard, but something long-lasting and unique. It gives the impression that you care enough to give her something special, that you aren't simply giving the traditional first date gifts on auto-pilot, and if things go well with her, it may well be imbued with sentimental value.

What exactly I'd recommend depends entirely on the girl in question, so that really has to be up to you. Is there anything in particular you know she happens to like?

EDIT: \/ Aaaaaand, I've changed my mind. Get her that.

[Kindablue]

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lum9tz96TM1qcbo9lo1_500.jpg

[Iruka]

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lum9tz96TM1qcbo9lo1_500.jpg

This.

Alternatively, check out that link Worira posted and get a flower that is symbolic for something you like about her. A lot more personal than the standard roses.

[Mauve Shirt]

Do you know this chick or is this the first time you've met? For a first date I'd say get flowers, but not chocolates.

[Asta Kask]

Try to find out what the girl likes. Chocolate and roses say "generic woman" to me. Like you haven't put in the effort to find out what she wants. I learned this from my first girlfriend, who much preferred a book on calculus or quantum mechanics.

[Tyriont]

You've gotten some excellent advice regarding the gifts and being cautious of not coming across as trying too hard. Rather than give any massive relevations, I'd like to expand upon a few points given.

Firstly, Savannah has a very good point regarding allergies. As others have mentioned, showing up with both flowers and chocolates on a first date can be a little overwhelming. Therefore, I'd suggest giving a single, silk (or otherwise fake) flower. A single flower is much more subtle than a whole bouquet, but still has the message of "I was thinking of you and want to make an effort". I strongly suggest studying the language of flowers as Worira linked to find something that really symbolizes the message you want to convey. It also makes for an interesting conversation point. A silk flower will not only avoid the risk of triggering allergies, it'll also potentially last forever.

You mentioned that you were under the impression that the guy always pays. Historically, that was true...but things are quite different now. Nowadays, the more general rule seems to be "the one who did the asking pays". Many women have come to see the guy insisting on paying as somewhat insulting if it's done on every single date. Given that in this case you were the one who asked her out, you should pay in this instance. However, if she seems determined to pay her own way on this or any future dates - let her.

I hope this last note comes across in the spirit with which I intend it and I apologize if not. I get the impression that you might be overthinking things a bit and falling too much into the stereotype of what a first date is "meant" to be. (Personal note: if possible, try to think of something other than a movie. Going to see a movie is a terrible first date in my opinion, since you're sitting there in the dark and not conversing - first dates should be getting to know each other). Be creative, be spontaneous...and above all, be you. Listen to everyone who has told you to try and do things unique to her, that you think she'd like. They're steering you in the right direction.

[Coidzor]

Ugh. Anyone got any suggestions for how to get the foul taste out of one's mouth when an old flame, that one hasn't yet gotten rid of the damned torch one was carrying, gets engaged/married?

Because Pink Moscato sparkling wine that blew its top off last night isn't cutting it.

[arguskos]

Ugh. Anyone got any suggestions for how to get the foul taste out of one's mouth when an old flame, that one hasn't yet gotten rid of the damned torch one was carrying, gets engaged/married?

Because Pink Moscato sparkling wine that blew its top off last night isn't cutting it.
Nope. Wish I knew (similar situation myself). :smallsigh:

[Vacant]

This isn't so much an immediate issue as it is a little piece of advice.

When suggesting, implying willingness, etc., for any act of sexytimes, please, please don't say "I'd be ok with it if you are, I guess." :smallannoyed: Seriously? It's not like choosing a restaurant. (Possibility that that's just my experience duly noted.) It's a serious, potentially life-changing decision, and is even more important when its one of the people in question's first times (it wasn't mine in this case, but still.) If all you have to say is "I'd be ok with it", I'm not really interested in taking part, especially if you're a long-term partner. I'm willing to wait until you're more than just lukewarm ambivalent.

/Rant.

I'm done, sorry, needed to get that out.

The thing is, sometimes one just doesn't really care. I always feel it's better to be as honest as possible with matters of consent. If you're not cool with "eh, whatever," that's your business, but that's also all the more reason you should want people to say that instead of lie.


Ugh. Anyone got any suggestions for how to get the foul taste out of one's mouth when an old flame, that one hasn't yet gotten rid of the damned torch one was carrying, gets engaged/married?

Because Pink Moscato sparkling wine that blew its top off last night isn't cutting it.

Yeah that's like, what, twelve percent? You're not going to kill your tastebuds (figurative or otherwise) until like the high forties. Get some Broker's Gin, Evan Williams Green Label, or Conquistador tequila. Unless you're feeling classier than ten dollars a bottle/fifteen a handle, then it's just the strongest brandy you can find.

On a personal note, I am in so many wonky situations so far over my head I could not even possibly hope to ask for advice. Stay tuned for very likely increasing of woes and/or confusion.

[Starwulf]

You mentioned that you were under the impression that the guy always pays. Historically, that was true...but things are quite different now. Nowadays, the more general rule seems to be "the one who did the asking pays". Many women have come to see the guy insisting on paying as somewhat insulting if it's done on every single date. Given that in this case you were the one who asked her out, you should pay in this instance. However, if she seems determined to pay her own way on this or any future dates - let her.


Hmm, I haven't been off the dating scene THAT long(about 10 years, give or take a few months), and around where I live, the guy paying was still pretty standard, and some of my buddies that ARE still single, still pay for their dates, and if you were to suggest to them that the woman should pay, they would look at you like your crazy(and almost certainly say something exactly to that effect). Maybe if you live in/near a bigger city where customs are different this might be true(but even then, I would ALWAYS say the guy is responsible for the first and second date), but in smaller areas, I'd always err to the side of "Guy pays for dates".

[Maelstrom]

Wow, you *really* like to plans things ****WAY**** out in advance... At least, that's my impression on reading your requests for advice.

Anyway, I am with the majority above, this is a first date, get to know her, and let her get to know the real you. Do not try to impress her with gifts (for which you had to go to a bulletin board to get advice); it will most likely come off as too forward and/or not sincere.

If you insist on getting her something (because you are just the generous/giving type) make it a small, inexpensive trinket. The girl is being asked to be taken to Wendy's, methinks she's not a material girl/woman...

[Delwugor]

I hope this last note comes across in the spirit with which I intend it and I apologize if not. I get the impression that you might be overthinking things a bit and falling too much into the stereotype of what a first date is "meant" to be. (Personal note: if possible, try to think of something other than a movie. Going to see a movie is a terrible first date in my opinion, since you're sitting there in the dark and not conversing - first dates should be getting to know each other). Be creative, be spontaneous...and above all, be you. Listen to everyone who has told you to try and do things unique to her, that you think she'd like. They're steering you in the right direction.
This is the advise I have given to my sons. Good stuff. The only thing I would add is to make it fun for both of you. First dates often end there but a fun one leaves a good impression.

As far as flowers give one single red rose. It says you mean something (which is probably why you asked her out) without overwhelming her. Don't worry about allergies (goes with the over-thinking part) because you just don't know. And a good sense of humor will overcome awkwardness if she turns out to be allergic.

[Maelstrom]

And a good sense of humor will overcome awkwardness if she turns out to be allergic.

And if she *is* allergic and gets bent out of shape because you went out of your way to be romantic, but did not get a thorough background check done up, you'll know instantly to move on ;)

You mentioned this is your first date ever...just have fun and relax

[valadil]

Is this someone you've known or a total stranger? I think it'll look desperate if you've purchased gifts for a total stranger. Less so if it's a friend who is willing to do v-day with you.

[KenderWizard]

Okay, first, Kindablue, that's amazing!!

Also:
On what to get
Flowers and chocolates are nice, if fairly generic. But when you're just getting to know someone, generic is good! I would go for one or the other. It is Valentine's Day, but it's also a first date. I'd say a gift is totally unnecessary on a first date, but such a tradition for Valentine's that if you want to, go for it. Definitely unnecessary for the family, though. A lot of people would be embarrassed that they didn't have anything for you, and you can end up in an escalating gift war. Or hurt their feelings if they can't reciprocate in kind. The best way to make a good impression is by being friendly and polite, not by throwing money or candy at them (particularly literally!). I lean towards flowers, because they're more special. Flowers mean special occasion. Chocolate is more everyday. Varies by person. I would also avoid red roses. Bit cliche and can be a bit strong for a first date. Looking up flower language is nice, but I would instead give her flowers that you yourself really like. I don't particularly care hyacinths mean "consistency of love" if I think they're ugly. Being able to say "I got you these poppies because they're my favourite flower and they match your electricity-generation cheek circles" is way nicer.

Also, I think that someone who is horrendously and angrily allergic to flowers but doesn't mention that before a traditional movie and dinner date has only themselves to blame. Throw the flowers out, get her some water, say sorry, laugh about it, pop into a shop and buy a box of chocolates to eat at the cinema in replacement, and bring her silk flowers next time.

On paying for dates
It is tradition that the man pays, but that's a tradition that dates from a time when women basically didn't have money. The replacement of "asker pays unless askee offers to split" makes much more sense. I would say offer, on a first date (that applies to either person). If ye can't negotiate paying for movie tickets, the relationship is doomed anyway.

[thubby]

for a first date i would avoid any gifts. but if you insist, make it something small.

[Bastian Weaver]

No no no, dude. There's a reason for girls to think that "boys don't know there are other flowers besides roses". And this reason is that every time we think about giving them flowers, we choose roses. Every. Time.
Which means that when she thinks about you, you're "one of the boys who gave me roses".
Personally, I think giving her flowers on the first date is sweet, especially if it's on Valentine's day. But I suggest you try to be a wee bit more original. Try some other flowers. Would be nice if you ask her what flowers does she like.
Another mistake is giving her a huuuuge bouquet. Sure, it looks good, and it feels significant. When you give, you give!
But it's a date, and she has to carry your present around. Small flowers smell just as nice as big ones, and they're much easier to carry.
As for candy - I wouldn't do it on first date. Maybe later.

[Kindablue]

Okay, first, Kindablue, that's amazing!!

Not as amazing as rainbow roses.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/61/Rainbow_Rose_%283366550029%29.jpg/640px-Rainbow_Rose_%283366550029%29.jpg

Those aren't painted like the Pokerose appears to be, though; they actually feed the dye to them through their stems.

[PallElendro]

Buy chrysanthemums and cocoa-powdered truffles. {Scrubbed} Ladies love chrysanthemums and cocoa-powdered truffles.

Sorry, Starwulf. Internet thing.

[thubby]

according to (girl i dated briefly, we're still friendly) the origami flower i gave her was rather memorable.

[Starwulf]

Buy chrysanthemums and cocoa-powdered truffles. Edited for appropriateness love chrysanthemums and cocoa-powdered truffles.

I uhh, think you might want to remove the "Bitches". That's incredibly inappropriate, and I'm quite certain it's against forum rules.

[TinyMushroom]

according to (girl i dated briefly, we're still friendly) the origami flower i gave her was rather memorable.

This sounds awesome. I think I'll remember this for whenever I get a boyfriend (/girlfriend?)

[Traab]

Id say a single flower, pick a pretty one. Big bouquets are kind of a special occasion type of thing imo. Plus they are a bit bulky and a pita to put in a vase without screwing up the arrangement and making it look terrible. A single flower she can just put in a glass of water and head out for your date. Candy? eh, id say at most one of those small sampler packs, or a specific set if you know what she likes. No huge boxes with 50 pieces of chocolate in them. Once again, thats the sort of thing you save for anniversaries, or other special occasions. If you had been dating her for months beforehand then it would be alright, but as a first date thing it seems a bit much, but your mileage may vary.

[Weezer]

I would go with a single, non rose flower. Normally a flower is a bit much, but it is Valentines Day. Try to figure out what her favorite flower is, best course with that might be to ask her friends, friends can be an invaluable resource for subtly finding out information. But definitely avoid roses, they are way too generic.

[Winter_Wolf]

Do it old school: a handful of daisies and a half eaten bar of chocolate. Okay, so it's like 3rd grade old school. You'll probably need some witty comment to pull it off, or a date with a really good sense of humor.

Or just go with daisies. I'm surprised, looking back, at the number of girls I know who've told me that daisies are their favorites.

[Scarlet Knight]

Compromise: bring her a chocolate rose.

[Delwugor]

Compromise: bring her a chocolate rose.
I got Mrs. D one about 5 years ago and it is still on the entertainment center. It still looks nice when dusted off, but I wouldn't vouch for the taste now.

[Rawhide]

Woah. Who merged these threads? This is confusing...

It's Valentine's Day, of course you should get her something. She has chosen Valentine's Day deliberately for some reason, and that signals that she thinks that the day is in some way special.

I would recommend a Valentine's Day themed card, a heart shaped box of chocolates to share, and a single red rose.

[Moonshadow]

Woah. Who merged these threads? This is confusing...

It's Valentine's Day, of course you should get her something. She has chosen Valentine's Day deliberately for some reason, and that signals that she thinks that the day is in some way special.

I would recommend a Valentine's Day themed card, a heart shaped box of chocolates to share, and a single red rose.

I was wondering about that myself.

And to be honest, if a girl is choosing Valentine's Day under the premise that she thinks she'll get free stuff, then that isn't really the kind of girl I'd like to date...

[Starwulf]

Woah. Who merged these threads? This is confusing...

It's Valentine's Day, of course you should get her something. She has chosen Valentine's Day deliberately for some reason, and that signals that she thinks that the day is in some way special.

I would recommend a Valentine's Day themed card, a heart shaped box of chocolates to share, and a single red rose.

You're telling me, I was staring at the forums page and thinking "wth, I never posted in the relationship advice thread".

[Vacant]

On gifts, remember that everything you give someone is something, inevitably, that they're taking from you. Remember that in the best and worst ways. There are some kinds of things, especially flowers, I don't give because they're better not taken, roses especially. Never give some colors of roses unless you know what you mean and you mean it. If it's not too late, you don't know and can't mean it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that some things only count when it's hopeless to establish it mattered when all other signifiers indicate otherwise. All they do earlier is cheapen that significance, which is the worst thing when that time does come, as it always will.

Really, all I can say is to never hope for anything to last and do your best not to care about temporality. The truth is that love is often and justifiably connected to dying, in that both are the worse the longer they take. I'll have a whisky and a good game of cards every time, which is to say nothing negative about romantic relations, just that it's tragic and almost hateful in a sense to apply a delusion of permanence to something which is and must be inherently ephemeral. Gifts are signifiers as words are, and to give them lightly and without understanding can be a grievous mistake. Do not give laurel leaves unless you intend to wait at a tree for eternity; do not give roses unless you goddamn mean it. Presence and absence aren't delineated enough, in isolation, to create the sorrow of heartbreak, but lies and the truth are.

[loopy]

So this is what happens when your flatmate decides to spend three hours writing up an in-depth guide to dating you. (Note: we have never dated, have no intention of dating, everyone seems to assume we are together already though, so the issue doesn't come up much)

An executive summary to dating the confusing enigma that is Owen - sources of information include: living with Owen, hearing him talk about his previous relationships, laughing at his foibles and spending way too much time on the phone for him. For those who want to wade into the dating waters with ‘loopy’ I give you this…

One- Owen likes his private time

Though Owen is seen as a social and outgoing creature at home he will often disappear into his bedroom/cave/dungeon/computer room or basically where Owen’s bed and laptop reside. At first Owen will be unaware when his private time is being intruded upon but once he becomes aware of it he starts to become aware of every time there is an incursion. The automatic reaction of a partner is to ‘chase’ and try to bridge the gap, but this has the opposite result and will make Owen feel like he is obligated to socialise and will come off as clingy. Owen will try to resist these feelings but like a mother who is constantly popping her head around the door the gentle intrusions become a source of resentment.

Two- Owen reacts better to a mildly disinterested partner rather than an overly interested partner

This links with the point above, but a mildly disinterested (do not confuse with ‘cold bitch) partner forces Owen to chase them. It makes them seem more valuable, illusive, interesting in his eyes and will keep the romance energised. On the other hand a partner who continues to be overly interested becomes a partner who will perceptively intrude on his social life and will appear as to need him, rather than want him. Owen seems to like to continually prove himself to a partner, the challenge of the chase if you will. If the partner is overly interested then the race has already been won and some of the glamour will be lost from interactions within the relationship.

It’s sounds too simple to say that the best way to keep Owen interested is to ignore him, but it is (of course within reason). A bit of a gap between responding to texts and a few nights where the partner is too busy to meet up will renew lagging interest.

Three- Owen respects a parter with an independent and flourishing social life

Expanding from the points above, Owen likes to feel wanted rather than needed. This means he is attracted to a partner with a successful social life, developed group of friends and interests that lie outside of him and the relationship. It keeps the relationship interesting and adds vitality as there are external interactions that lead for good fodder in conversations. A ‘flourishing social life’ tends to go hand in hand with an independent partner that he has to continually prove himself to and this is how you keep him interested.

Four- Owen is not a morning person

Owen will not function for about an hour after waking and is really hard to wake up, I know as I have tripped over his feet before when he was crashing on the couch and he didn’t wake up. If you want Owen in a good mood it is easier to wake him with a back scratch and a can of coke, the caffeine rush will speed up the time it takes to get something sensible out of him.

Five- Owen is a sucker for the innocent face

You know that look that you practice, where your face is angled downward and you look up at someone with wide eyes, through your lashes. Perhaps nervously tucking a stray bit of hair behind your ear. You don’t practice it? Ok, well as Owen’s girlfriend you should start now. A white dress wouldn’t go awry, slightly dishevelled hair and barely there make-up with plenty of mascara would be a plus. Think girl next door, with a wild vixen as her split personality but they haven’t been formerly introduced yet.

Six- Owen will tell the same story quite a few times

Though Owen won’t mind if you make him aware you have heard the story before it’s free social points to laugh at the same joke again. It also means you won’t have to pay half as much attention.

Seven- Owen likes to sometimes talk about Owen, or have other people talk about Owen

If you find Owen as becoming a little disinterested in a conversation, sometimes it is good to lead the conversation back to a topic about Owen; such as writing a guide on how to date Owen. You’ll find this will generally increase his alertness and joviality several fold.

Eight- Owen will often mention things about himself, not out of self interest, but to get the other to respond in turn

It’s a bit of an English trait (and since Owen has family from the UK) that it’s rude to ask direct questions. Instead participants, in this case Owen, will refer to themselves in the hope that the respondent will reveal something in turn. Rather than ask someone how they felt about a movie, their day, a song and in particular more personal topics, Owen will put forward his own opinions and feelings with the aim to elicit the same information from them.

This will may come off as self interested but in fact Owen is interested in the other persons opinions/feeling/life but it trying to avoid rudeness by not directly inquiring.

Nine- Nerdy/Geeky/Quirky attributes will score points with Owen

Interests that score high points: Dungeons and Dragons, Firefly, Black Books, Star Wars movies and a distaste of the prequels, Star Wars clothing – think C3P0 bikini’s, Stargate, Harry Potter references in conversation, Pixar (back to cute and innocent), Dresden Files, Dr Horrible’s Sing-a-long blog

Ten- Owen often does not like his hair, helping him pick our hats is a great way to get him out of the house sooner

Owen will generally go out hatless only for the first few weeks after a haircut and will continue to hide it after that. A girlfriend has two choices, style his hair so his fringe is straight but isn’t ‘flat’ or to save time, pick out his hat. It will have to match his clothing choice or you are back into indecision-land again.

Eleven- Owen is addicted to Coca Cola, keep him well stocked and his computer handy and he won’t leave the house

This also helps with him not being a morning person, see points above. Giving him a can of coke and turning on his computer so he can see the login screen for The Old Republic or his latest game, will tend to distract him from leaving the room. It will also prep him for his ‘private time’ (gaming time) meaning you can leave him alone in the room, do your own thing and later on in the day when he is feeling social you can hang out when it’s a convenient time for you.

Twelve- If Owen seems to have lagging energy at a club or event, if suitable, pass him finger lights

- Note- may not be suitable at weddings as he may probably use them anyway and will try to distract the photographer with his shuffling

Also, a good investment are the gloves with the lights embedded in the tips of the fingers, he broke his last pair. A girl who was interested in Owen may see this as a useful gift in the near future.

‘Ok, Owen, you happy with that plug?… Well I don’t know if someone will buy it for you… Well I did mention it. Fine, put a link for a page selling it on your facebook. Try eBay. I don’t know, probably one under $50, I don’t think most girls would spend more than that. No, the one in black is way better, that way in the dark it looks like the lights are floating.’

Thirteen- Owen is big into physical contact early on in a relationship, but this may reduce, this does not mean you should chase him to fill the void

Owen is physically affectionate with many people, its a thing non-huggers are eventually forced into getting used to, and then forced to convert into hugging and eventual

‘mush-bags’. *Glares at Owen* But as you can see with Owen being a social person who values his private time, it also means when spending extended social contact with a person he may physically withdraw as well.

This can always be a sign that Owen is putting a safe bit of distance into the relationship as he is feeling a little overwhelmed. Girls in the past have reacted by hugging more, clinging more and that will only lead to more detachment on the part of Owen. Pulling back as well and allowing him that bit of space will make him feel secure in the relationship again. It’s part of wanting to continue chasing a girl, when in doubt mildly disinterested is often the way to go as this will make Owen start chasing again. It’s a way he can feel in emotional control, it’s only his emotions on the line, rather than being responsible and culpable for the emotions of someone else because that will start him over-thinking. He’ll worry he doesn’t like them enough, he’ll worry they’re only interested because they can’t get someone else, he’ll worry they’ll get more clingy, he’ll worry if he stops liking them he’ll hurt them, that will start him worrying about whether he does actually like them… you can see where I am going.

Fourteen- Owen may be having a bad day just because his friend is having a bad day

Owen’s friends problems are his problems, he is happy to listen, happy to share the burden but for him it is a real burden. It will stick with him, he will quietly worry, I will have to go into the room and lure him out with promises of Pixar. Future girlfriends, that will be your job. That doesn’t mean he can’t deal with peoples problems and people shouldn’t share with them with him, but part of Owen being a compassionate and empathetic guy is that he isn’t unaffected by what he hears and often bad things seem to happen to people all at once and sometimes his life can be going great but he’ll be brought down by the stuff that is happening to those he cares about around him.

Fifteen- Owen will tend to care very much for other people but has a history with girls who end up needing him for too much emotional support and leave him drained

This leads from the one above, Owen has a history where often in a relationship he becomes the confidant and emotional support network for the partner. That is a partners job but he would become their only support, for all their problems, that keep happening, that can often be avoided, that often aren’t fixed. It means that when he is single he feels like a load is lifted off his shoulders, a girl dating him doesn’t want to start stacking the baggage right back on. It doesn’t mean he won’t be there for them, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t want to help, but generally if you want to date someone and not make them suffer then I’d like to personally say ‘harden the **** up and get your **** together a little bit. Have a cry, have a complain, but recover and fix it, otherwise the pain just continues and also please keep it off my Facebook Newsfeed.’

Sixteen- Owen is not photogenic

If you find that one good photo – tag it, like it, comment on it and personally point it out to him. If you see a photo where he looks like a gremlin, alien, is sucking his bottom lip, looks pallid, is half asleep or of all calamities his hair looks terrible – make sure it doesn’t get tagged and threaten the poster to take it down.

Seventeen- Most of Owen’s friends are girls/Owen is not very sporty/Owen does not like beer/Owen does not mind discussing emotions and feelings/Owen enjoys to socially analyse/Owen isn’t much of a bloke

All reasons why Owen may have been born in the wrong country and perhaps the wrong gender. But in seriousness, I see Owen as a bit of a gentleman, he’s more interested in intellectual pursuits than physical bravado and he’s a fan of conversation. A girlfriend will have to put up with Owen having a large circle of female friends, including myself. - Yeah you heard it bitch.

...Ayep.

[Scarlet Knight]

I got Mrs. D one about 5 years ago and it is still on the entertainment center. It still looks nice when dusted off, but I wouldn't vouch for the taste now.

Well, since the lady in question is now "Mrs. D", I'll say "Point for the chocolate rose"! :smallwink:

[Morph Bark]

...Ayep.

I especially like #7.

[Dvil]

So I was bumbling around on memebase, and I found this (http://ragecomics.memebase.com/2012/01/04/rage-comics-id-rather-take-a-leap-of-fap/). Food for thought.

[Coidzor]

So I was bumbling around on memebase, and I found this (http://ragecomics.memebase.com/2012/01/04/rage-comics-id-rather-take-a-leap-of-fap/). Food for thought.

Hmm... Asking out a girl who just got engaged on the other side of the country. Kinky. :smallamused:

[loopy]

I especially like #7.

Yeah, I admit, I'm a little self-obsessed. :(

[AtlanteanTroll]

It IS best to schedule Valentines day dates early. Way early.:smallwink:

A whole month?

[Coidzor]

A whole month?

If it involves reservations at a hot spot, that's sometimes what it takes.

However, generally first dates shouldn't be in such a high pressure environment. One wants them to be as easy-going as possible, really.

Valentine's Dates are really more for couples that need a bit of spice to ease up on the monotony and drain and stress that the holidays and family and winter put upon them.

Hence the lingerie and such.

[Mutant Sheep]

Also, free chocolate.:smallbiggrin:

[Coidzor]

Also, free chocolate.:smallbiggrin:

There is no free chocolate. After V-Day, there's greatly discounted chocolate though.

[Mutant Sheep]

There is no free chocolate. After V-Day, there's greatly discounted chocolate though.

You're obviously dating the wrong people then!:smallamused:

[Coidzor]

You're obviously dating the wrong people then!:smallamused:

Ah, but you see, then you're dating them. So it's just part of the general barter/gift economy of a relationship.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Ugh, you're all probably tired of my complaining about this.

I am such a jerk. My best friend and I, the one that I've stupidly gone and fallen in love with, we joke about how everyone is shipping us, there there's some sort of cosmic betting pool on the date we finally get together, but I've never worked up the courage to say that I'm only partially joking. Because I always think to myself that there's some outside reason why this will never work, and I'm probably right.

And meanwhile I've never ever dealt with these emotions before. And even worse are the physical wants, which I have absolutely no clue how to deal with, and that's even worse because this is my best friend I'm talking and thinking about!

I don't know what to do...

[Pika...]

A whole month?

Again, I originally thought Vday was this month. Silly me. -_-

[Reluctance]

Coffee: Go up to him. Kiss him. This is looking like one of those cutesy "they're both too shy to make the first move" things, and it's saccharine enough to make me want to lock the two of you in a room together and invent a clothes disintegration ray. Make a move. It's better than twisting your guts into knots playing What If.

As for figuring out your body, all you need is erotica and some alone time. But the feelings, they're going to happen again unless you sequester yourself for the rest of your life. Better to explore them with someone you care for and trust - someone who seems to care for and trust you as well - than to have your emotions go out of whack with some guy you've just been casually dating. This is practice, but it sounds like an ideal training wheels situation.

Shockrat: See if you can move the date forwards. Drop the flowers and candy. Old-Fashioned Romance is a crock. Think of something fun to do, invite her along so you can do it together, and stop expecting it to be anything. This is a test ride. You're not interviewing for a lifelong position just yet.

[Lord Loss]

Dear Coffee, I've been in your situation twice. The first time, I made a move, got shot down, got over it and it was temporarily awkward for a little while before we forgot about it.

The second time? I didn't do a darn thing and found out too late that one of my good friends had liked me and that I missed a chance.

I agree with Reluctance on this one, at worst well you'll stay friends and at best you become more, but you'll never know what might have been if you don't make one.

[CoffeeIncluded]

The problem is that I'm terrified of what could happen. We both go to different colleges, but more importantly, we're incredibly close, and if our friendship is ruined over this...

I want to tell him, I'm just having trouble finding the time. He's headed back to college Friday, while I'm still on break for another couple weeks. But next week I'm headed up to meet him and a couple other close friends of mine, in a big get-together, and I'm crashing in his room two nights, so maybe I might be able to tell him then...

He, well, we I guess, also does this mixed message thing that doesn't exactly help. His circulation's crap because of a heart condition and I tend to run hot, so sometimes I show him how warm my hands are compared to his, or I make a comment and he gestures. Except that there's a difference between a brief touch "oh, you're warm" and not letting go for several minutes and guess which one happens between us...

[Mando Knight]

If you don't want to make the first direct move, next time you happen to go into the topic, ask him what he thinks the odds are that you will get together.

[CoffeeIncluded]

If you don't want to make the first direct move, next time you happen to go into the topic, ask him what he thinks the odds are that you will get together.

Ah, see, the awkward thing about that is...

Everyone ships us. Everyone. My peers, his peers, random people on the street, we are the OTP of practically everyone we meet together. There is a cosmic betting pool on the date and time that we get together.

[Mutant Sheep]

I'm going to leap on a nearly broken branch o' cliche here and say don't change yourself. An awesome friendship can turn into an amazing relationship if you decide that being in a committed relationship doesn't mean you should completely change the relationship between you and the guy and how you act around each other. So if everyone thinks you should get together, dont stress on the "getting together" part. I'm not saying you should not change anything about how you hang out with him, especially if you (and the rest of the world) seem to think it can work out, but that being too "we are now boyfriend/girlfriend, lets start doing boyfriend/girlfriend things" is needless and would make it needlessly awkward.

TL;DR: hard to comprehend ramblings about how you shouldn't start doing things you would feel awkward doing with him now, just because being in a relationship means you should do relationshipey things.

[Moonshadow]

Ah, see, the awkward thing about that is...

Everyone ships us. Everyone. My peers, his peers, random people on the street, we are the OTP of practically everyone we meet together. There is a cosmic betting pool on the date and time that we get together.

So... obviously, you need to make a bet and then collect all the winnings AND get the guy.

It's win/win >.>

[Mando Knight]

Ah, see, the awkward thing about that is...

Everyone ships us. Everyone. My peers, his peers, random people on the street, we are the OTP of practically everyone we meet together. There is a cosmic betting pool on the date and time that we get together.

And one way of getting his feelings on the issue would be to ask for what his bet is. Then ask why. Then you can manipulate the conversation into either getting him to ask the question or make it a bit more comfortable for you to.

[Coidzor]

As for figuring out your body, all you need is erotica and some alone time. But the feelings, they're going to happen again unless you sequester yourself for the rest of your life. Better to explore them with someone you care for and trust - someone who seems to care for and trust you as well - than to have your emotions go out of whack with some guy you've just been casually dating. This is practice, but it sounds like an ideal training wheels situation.


Coffee: Indeed, that basically all sorts itself out once you've got a door that locks, though internet resources can help, I suppose. I think there's a website called teenwire that's gotten good press in this thread before. Of course, if you read back through the earlier incarnations of the thread, you'll find links to resources here and there anyway.

If you really need someone to point out some resources to you, IIRC, Kenderwizard would be your best bet. Syka's probably got plenty she could point out, but she's been busy as of late.

As for your friend, talk to him, tell him you want him to be with you, and throw the fear of failure to the wind and just try. One's first attempt rarely turns into a 70 year commitment that one looks back on as an entirely good decision, but that's why we have youth rather than going straight to complete adult.

[Feytalist]

I want to tell him, I'm just having trouble finding the time. He's headed back to college Friday, while I'm still on break for another couple weeks. But next week I'm headed up to meet him and a couple other close friends of mine, in a big get-together, and I'm crashing in his room two nights, so maybe I might be able to tell him then...

I would maybe advise against telling him in his house, with others present. I'd suggest a neutral place in a more one-on-one kind of situation. Even if it's just at a coffee shop. I like walks in the park or something for this kind of situation, but that's just me. Anything to make it less awkward.

I was in a similar situation, once. The girl in question was also struggling with these kinds of feelings for the first time, and we were also friends for some time beforehand. Incidentally, she brought up the subject first, and I'm really glad that she did, otherwise nothing might have happened. Suffice to say, we were together for over 3 very good years.

Bottom line, tell him. Tell him soonest. It sounds like it might work out very well for you :smallsmile: And even if it somehow doesn't, everyone needs to go through this kind of thing sometime. It's scary as all hell, I know, but it really is worth it.

[Reluctance]

Coffee: "Asking him out" all official-like is a lot of pressure for relatively little return. You ask a stranger out on a date. When friends become a couple, it's more about acknowledging an upgrade. You're already cool asking him to get together, obviously. The official date-date is just adding pressure. As someone with a fair amount of time in the trenches, it really isn't that big a deal.

Here's what I want you to do. Next time you're together with him in a reasonably private area, say "there's something I've always wanted to do" and kiss him. No waffling. No equivocations. Just get it right out there to break the ice. It isn't forwards or slatternly, any more than this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0400.html) was. (Yours'll be somewhat more awkward. That comes with the territory. Go with it.)

The important thing is getting it out in the open so both of you don't stand there eternally waiting for the other to make the first move. If he reciprocates - which I think is a safe bet, considering that everybody except for the two of you is noticing the signals you two are sending - awesome. If he doesn't, learning how to deal with heartbreak and rejection are more big-girl lessons you'll have to learn at some point. Trust me, better this with someone you know and have a solid backbone of friendship to fall back on, than a classmate/co-worker where things can get really awkward.

[DeadManSleeping]

@Coffee: The phrase "I don't want to ruin our friendship" is the silliest reason to not get into a romantic relationship. Here's a fun game: next time you're together on one of your "not-"dates, try and figure out how much of your time you're spending thinking about this whole relationship thing or your physical desires or worrying about this whole thing. There. That's as ruined as your friendship will be after you've dated if it is ruined, because that's what failed relationships do to friendships.

I know relationships are scary. Boy, I really do get that. But this is probably your third time asking us for advice on the same problem. Don't you think it's time to get up and go make yourself a new situation?

[The Succubus]

So... obviously, you need to make a bet and then collect all the winnings AND get the guy.

It's win/win >.>

This. This is why the thread is called the Relationship Woes and Advice Thread. :smallbiggrin:

[CoffeeIncluded]

So basically you're all saying I should just go up and kiss him. :smalltongue:

Know what? Next time I see him, I'm telling him. I just hope I'm able to work up the nerve then.

[Castaras]

Know what? Next time I see him, I'm telling him. I just hope I'm able to work up the nerve then.

Don't think, just say "You, I like you. A lot. Ya know what I'm saying? We would make a totally hot couple." :smalltongue:

You can do it Coffee. :smallsmile: *huggles of courage*

[Reluctance]

He's a good friend, no? You've been there for each other through emotionally trying times. Which means it's safe to say that he's not going to toss you out like a candy bar wrapper even if things do go through an awkward patch.

The major point, though, is to get your feelings out in the open. There's no way I can guarantee that any relationship will work out as you hope. (Although with the way everybody is shipping you, it's a reasonably safe bet.) Not risking anything, however, is a way to guarantee nothing happens. Even in the worst case scenarios, at least you'll know so you can stop dwelling on it.

So yes. Say/do something. You'll have to force yourself to do it, but I promise that afterwards you'll look back and realize how anticlimactic it was. Music will not suddenly start playing. Fireworks will not spring up around you. But if everything you're saying is correct, there's significant risk of you coming away with a goofy-happy feeling that lasts at least the rest of the month.

Edit to add: If you wanna make The Playground happy, "Wanna make out?" would be an excellent line. :smallwink:

[polity4life]

Coffee, when you make your move please make sure that it isn't a punch to the sternum. That's how my relationship started with hopefully-future-Mrs.Polity4life. In the end things have turned out well and continue to do so, but I will never let her live her first move on me down.

So the take-away for you from this is to try to be graceful or at least mitigate any clumsy impulses that you have.

[Asta Kask]

So basically you're all saying I should just go up and kiss him. :smalltongue:

Know what? Next time I see him, I'm telling him. I just hope I'm able to work up the nerve then.

Just remember the Jedi Master's advice:

http://flowingdata.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/yoda-625x468.jpg

[The Succubus]

So basically you're all saying I should just go up and kiss him. :smalltongue:

Know what? Next time I see him, I'm telling him. I just hope I'm able to work up the nerve then.

My first kiss was probably the right way to do it. We had just gone for a walk around a lake on a hot summer's day and stopped for a rest on a pinic bench in the shade. We both turned to look at each other and I remember leaning in without saying a word and the rest is a pink fluffy fuzz for some reason.

It's a lot easier when you don't try and say anything. :smallredface:

[Pepz]

I'll agree with Succubus that words usually only complicate the matter. If you start by pretending to try to ask if he might have a favorable opinion about possibly having the chance of kissing you, there'll be confusion all around, not just because the way you word it, but because there's emotions to be handled as well.

I do like the "Do you know what I've wanted to do for a while now?" approach to things :)

Oh, and don't wait for a perfect or even a great moment. There's no such thing. You MAKE your own moments :) Even if you get shot down (unlikely if I browsed through the thread correctly) you'll remember the moment when you were flying :smallsmile:

[Lord Loss]

Good for you Coffee! Hope this all works out ofr the best. :smallsmile:

I'm having a little probelm of my own.

A good female friend of mine has liked me for a while, a fact that's been brought to my attention quite recently. Despite the fact that I've dated tw other people recently (including someone that I'm currently dating), she's conflicted as to whether or not I like her (To be fair I may have acted a tad flirtatious or possesive at times but no more so than with other close female friends). Which wouldn't be a problem on his own, the way I see it I'll just wait it out and our friendship won't be damaged. I've seen her like people before and I don't think it'll last all that long. Maybe I'm in the wrong for dealing with it this way.

The problem is two of out mutual friends (a couple). Whilst the other person I asked thought that I was dealing with it just fine, these two have been constantly telling me that I have to tell her I don't like her and that it's cruel to deal with it in any other way. One of them who is generally a great friend but can be a tad controlling at times has gone as far as to tell me something along the lines of:

''She's going to hear it and she's going to hear it from you. This isn't a threat it's a statement''

I don't have a problem with their opinion - who knows? maybe that is how I should deal with it - so much as the fact that they're trying to take control of something that isn't their business and I'd like to hear the playground's opinions on what to do with both of those issues (how to deal with the girl and with the friends)

Also, I'd just like to say something to everyone who's convinced they're two unlikeable to end up in a relationship, that one one could ever like them, that they're too unnatractive or weird or annoying or what have you.

You're not.

It doesn't always come easy and it doesn't always come fast, but there are people out there that will be attracted to each and every one of you. There's one catch though. You have to keep trying. You have to head out there and weather the failures and not give up. Cause if you give up, if you start shutting out your feelings and never taking action, you're going to have a lot of a harder time when you do find yourself liking someone, or even loving someone.

[hawkboy772042]

I've just started seeing this girl and I noticed that she still has a bunch of pictures of her and her ex-boyfriend on her Facebook page. How do I get her to take them down without looking like a control freak?

[Castaras]

I've just started seeing this girl and I noticed that she still has a bunch of pictures of her and her ex-boyfriend on her Facebook page. How do I get her to take them down without looking like a control freak?

May I ask why you want to take them down? :smallconfused:

[hawkboy772042]

May I ask why you want to take them down? :smallconfused:

The ones of her kissing another guy tend to make me feel uncomfortable. Especially since I once dated a girl who was actually cheating on her boyfriend with me. (Just a picture with her and some dude doesn't mean anything, but the more intimate types of photos tend to make me think if she was telling the truth to me...)

[Coidzor]

May I ask why you want to take them down? :smallconfused:

Unless she's getting a lot of active traffic on them commenting on what a cute couple they make in them and there's no correction that he is an ex or you're not facebook official yet or if he's still facebook official with her, I'm not really grokking this myself.

I've got pictures of myself with my exs on facebook, and I've dated women who have had pictures of themselves with their ex-boyfriends on facebook.

It's not a very big deal, generally.

[DeadManSleeping]

@L_L: Look, you don't just march up to a girl and say "look, I don't know what you think is going on, but this *pointing at girl and self repeatedly*, it ain't happening." Your friends are being concerned, but somewhat, well, wrong. Just try to avoid date-like things. Try to only see her in contexts where there's at least one other person.

@hawkboy: If it makes you uncomfortable, then don't page through her "guys I've sexed" album. You're justified in feeling uncomfortable looking at them, but she hasn't exactly pinned them up where you can't avoid them. And, as for your worry that their existence means she's not over her ex, well, that also makes (a bit of) sense, but isn't really grounds for anything major. I honestly would never take the time to erase all traces of someone I broke up with from my life, even if they drowned my mother in their own waste. It's not healthy behavior to disavow the existence of past partners. As long as she doesn't constantly bring them up and compare you to them, she's probably sufficiently over them.

[GAThraawn]

Coffee, I was in the same situation as you a couple of years ago, very close friends with a girl I developed feelings for, at a time when I didn't really want to be harbouring feelings for anyone, or lose her as a friend. I finally worked up the nerve to tell her that I had a crush on her before she went home for the holidays, and emphasized that she didn't need to respond to me right away if she wanted to take time to consider things, and that I'd still be her friend if that's all she wanted. She awkwardly shot me down, and it was uncomfortable for both of us for a while, although we had the holidays apart so we spent most of the time feeling awkward apart. We remained friends (because, really, if a good friend says something like "I have a crush on you, please let me know how you feel, so I can work on getting over this and move on, because I don't want our friendship to be negatively impacted", what are you going to do? Never talk to them again?), and in fact a couple of months later, after she'd had some time to ajust to the notion, we started dating, and are currently living together.

I think if you give him time and space to consider this new information (assuming he doesn't feel exactly the same way and has been waiting for an opening to jump you), and emphasize that if he doesn't feel the same way, you just want to get over him and continue being good friends, if he is a good friend he should understand. If he doesn't reciprocate, he might need some time and space to get over it, but he will understand.

[Serpentine]

Guuuuuuuuuys.
If you've read my diary-whatsit, you might remember I talk about someone called Sinta. One of her friends, who works on the beach, gave me a lift home on his bike the other night. He's pretty cute, and has a weirdly ocker accent :smallamused:
Apparently he was asking where I was and was asking Sinta for my number XD
Aside from being supes flattering, :smallamused: and this being a general "eeeeeeee someones interested in me! :smallbiggrin:" thing... GAAAAAWWWWWD so awkward >.< Srsly. Words cannot express how awkward I'll be.
Just... Awkwardness. So much.

edit: Alright, few more specifics on the sources of awkwardness.
1. I'm no good at talking with non-geeks, and cute as he is I've been realising I'm even not terribly attracted to such people (even purely lustily! :O).
2. I struggle with language differences and accents :/ Although the accent's not so much of an issue in this case...

[Reluctance]

Serp: What's that old thing they tell public speakers to help them relax? Picture him in his underwear. :smallwink:

[Serpentine]

...
Hawt.

Confession: the reason I like the "organic" method of relationship(orwhatever)-development is because I don't know how to do it the other way :/

[The Succubus]

And thus Serpy's masterplan was finally revealed. She would travel the world building an army of admirers, each of whom would fall passionately in love with her and serve as footsoldiers in her Army of Darkness.

.....

Teasing aside, I guess it's largely down to you. It depends how long you'll be staying in each country as to whether you'll have enough time to persue something, unless you feel comfortable with idea of holiday romance.

Or is it more case of how it will be awkward when you're all out as a group with friends and nothing happens?

[Serpentine]

That'd be pretty sweet :smallamused:


I dunno, just... awkward. Talkin' bout stuff. Doin' stuff. Just... awkward. Unless he's secretly a gamer-boy (which I doubt), I don't think we have anything in common, and lately I've been musing that even for something really casual I'd still need to be able to talk to them about stuff, y'know?
Or maybe I should just take my laptop down to the beach with me and introduce him to the joys of Skyrim :smallwink:

edit: Temporary awkwardness work-around acquired: permission to give number given, no phone calls (can't stand talking on mobiles).

*squee* :smallredface:

[Heliomance]

Thought you already had a Boy, Serps.

[Serpentine]

Broke up cuz leaving and not in love and stuff.
Which also, btw, puts a dampener on the possibility of Stuff Happening. Just not feeling it, you know *shrug*
But hey, I can still be tickled at the idea of a cute boy fancying me, can't I?

[Pepz]

As I don't know you that well Serpentine, I'll just go with the general advice of "just enjoy it". :) There's a cute boy who's asked your number, which is already cool :). If it's all about just having fun, don't worry about differences. :smallbiggrin:

[Serpentine]

Heh. Thanks.
I've just started seeing this girl and I noticed that she still has a bunch of pictures of her and her ex-boyfriend on her Facebook page. How do I get her to take them down without looking like a control freak?Whoa. I missed this, while I was being all me-ish.
I pretty much can't think of a single reason why she should take them down. If she's still friends with him, then she is allowed to have pictures of her friends on her Facebook. If she's not, well, I dunno what you're worried about.
If there's one or two specific photos where they're being particularly gratuitously couply, you could possibly - very carefully, and very politely, and very non-forcefully - tell her they make you uncomfortable and ask her very nicely if she'd take those specific ones down. However, I'm afraid you'd probably have to just deal with it if she doesn't want to, and you have pretty much no right to require her to take down all of them.

Cuz I'm, like, totes in a position to give relationship advice :smalltongue:

[DeadManSleeping]

Blurgh. I have what may be officially the weirdest problem ever.

My girlfriend is too fun.

We don't get much time to hang out (a couple hours a week at the very most). Generally there's a meal involved, and then we spend some time absorbing media, and also spend a lot of time just shooting the HEY NOW. After a bit of that, she has to go home, and I don't get to see her again for over a week.

This might sound good, but I suppose I should make this abundantly clear: the activity schedule I outlined above doesn't leave any room for hanky panky. Not even the kind that's so tame that "hanky panky" is a completely appropriate phrase for it. So, yes, we have a good time together, but...

It's not like she's stopping me from doing anything. We just never get around to having quiet moments because there's always something else to do.

Blurgh.

[Tyriont]

DeadMan, a few questions:

- Is this a temporary situation due to work/school schedules, or is this the standard?
- What are the other time restraints that are keeping you from spending more time together?
- Are there any changes you can see coming up that will enable you to spend more time together?

They're all kinda variations on the same question, granted...but still, it'll help get a little more insight into the situation.

[Coidzor]

Blurgh. I have what may be officially the weirdest problem ever.

My girlfriend is too fun.

We don't get much time to hang out (a couple hours a week at the very most). Generally there's a meal involved, and then we spend some time absorbing media, and also spend a lot of time just shooting the HEY NOW. After a bit of that, she has to go home, and I don't get to see her again for over a week.

This might sound good, but I suppose I should make this abundantly clear: the activity schedule I outlined above doesn't leave any room for hanky panky. Not even the kind that's so tame that "hanky panky" is a completely appropriate phrase for it. So, yes, we have a good time together, but...

It's not like she's stopping me from doing anything. We just never get around to having quiet moments because there's always something else to do.

Blurgh.

I'm pretty sure that shooting the HEY NOW is an internationally recognized time as appropriate for initiating impromptu make-outs. I believe there's some general line or quotation one usually gives while putting one's arm around one's lover, but I'm pretty sure a kiss is nice and will suffice.

Plus, who knows, you may find that you're capable of actually having pillow talk. 2 birds 1 stone.

[Pepz]

Deadman, if you feel there's a need for quiet moments (to perhaps lead to inappropriately loud moment :smallamused:) why not make your next meal together a real "dinner".

You know, the whole shebang, proper plate setting, candles, crappy piano music in the background. Afterwards, put the dishes away for cleaning later and just take the time to talk :). No absorbing of media, just the two of you (plus that crappy piano music :P). If all goes well she'll pick up the "cool, relaxed, Us-time"-vibe and you'll have a chance to be intimate (in whichever way you prefer, you hound :smallwink:)

[Coidzor]

No, no, crappy-ish Jazz! Because nothing says Sex like Sax!

[DeadManSleeping]

DeadMan, a few questions:

- Is this a temporary situation due to work/school schedules, or is this the standard?
- What are the other time restraints that are keeping you from spending more time together?
- Are there any changes you can see coming up that will enable you to spend more time together?

They're all kinda variations on the same question, granted...but still, it'll help get a little more insight into the situation.

She's doing extra school to finish her degree early, plus she has a part-time job. The situation is temporary, technically, in that it will end sometime, but that sometime is over a year from now. Basically, she's busy most hours of every day.

As far as the dinner suggestion...neither of us are terribly romantic people. Or terribly forward about romantic things (also part of the problem). On one hand, we agree on a lot of stuff, but on the other, we simply don't progress on the relationship-o-meter at a rate that humans would describe as "noticeable". :smallsigh:

[Coidzor]

Well, in the name of nookie, sometimes you've got to set time aside especial and say something. It's just one of those relationship hurdles that has to be dealt with eventually.

[DeadManSleeping]

I have the perfect response to that advice (and, indeed, the perfect response for many people to much of the advice on this thread)

But it's haaaaaard... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg_ArW8lrl0)

[fizzybobnewt]

How does one start a conversation? Specifically, finding a topic, when none is obvious? I tend to draw a blank. See, I spent the last two years reading when I should have been learning things like this.

[Coidzor]

How does one start a conversation? Specifically, finding a topic, when none is obvious? I tend to draw a blank. See, I spent the last two years reading when I should have been learning things like this.

Depends on the context a lot of the time. Generally though, the weather, something physical that one noticed other than size of secondary sexual characteristics like clothing choice, events happening in the area such as a show that had just ended, books they have evidenced in their active possession, those are topics that have worked as icebreaker-ish things in the past for some people.

Hello is never an actively bad thing to have be the first thing to come out of your mouth.


I have the perfect response to that advice (and, indeed, the perfect response for many people to much of the advice on this thread)

But it's haaaaaard... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg_ArW8lrl0)
... ...


Good night everybody! *mwah!* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUaZ89rWWPI)

[rogueboy]

**** it! **** **** **** ****! **** IT!

What's my next move here playground? The girl I have a (significant and long-term) crush on, who I was hoping to ask out tonight if I got a chance, JUST met someone who she's going to go out with either tomorrow or Sunday. I happened to overhear her tell someone else this (a group of us went out for drinks before the undergrads return on Monday) before I had gotten even a hint of an opportunity (thankfully?). I can't even decide if I should say something now or just wait and see whether it turns into anything. She's one of my closest friends here, but I REALLY like her. I got a pit in my stomach when she mentioned this, and then again when it was brought up again (obviously, everyone else there is really excited for her - myself, I have mixed feelings: happy for her, but mad at myself for it not being me).

My current idea (with all of, possibly, 2 hours of not-actually-planning going into this) is that I should send her an email, opening with something along the lines of "you don't have to respond to this, and I'm not even sure if I want you to right now", plus trying to make it clear that... I don't even know. Maybe it's the fact that it's late... no, it isn't that. I just can't think straight right now. Maybe even at all? I don't know. I know I'll be more capable of dealing with this in the morning, I'm just going to have to get to a ponit where this isn't the only thing on my mind in order to get a reasonable chance of sleeping.

And now that I've just vented all over the more general advice part of the thread, I'll leave you to make of this rambling what you can. Anything's appreciated, as always.

**** IT! (I'm just pissed at myself, ignore the self-censored outbursts)

[Coidzor]

Eh. Hearsay. Put your offer on the table, and by that I mean just ask her out on a date.

You'll find out exactly where you rate in this woman's estimation and you'll also have a good chance to find out what kind of context that other date is extant in.

[Serpentine]

Soooo. I has a date :3
Jus' sayin'...

[RabbitHoleLost]

Soooo. I has a date :3
Jus' sayin'...

Ooo, Miss Serpentine, oooooooo.
Tell us. Spill all the juicy details.

[term1nally s1ck]

Snip.

NO. Do NOT do anything even close to as weak as that, unless you *want* her to consider you the biggest wuss on the planet.

Just ask her out. Do NOT do the big formal dinner and a movie, that's not a good first date for people who already know each other. An activity would be best.

[rogueboy]

Eh. Hearsay. Put your offer on the table, and by that I mean just ask her out on a date.

You'll find out exactly where you rate in this woman's estimation and you'll also have a good chance to find out what kind of context that other date is extant in.

Coid, what exactly are you defining as hearsay? Because to me, that typically means at least second-hand info, if not more distant. This was something that she said, explicitly. It was also discussed by a couple of other people (which could be defined as hearsay, except that they were talking to her about it...)


NO. Do NOT do anything even close to as weak as that, unless you *want* her to consider you the biggest wuss on the planet.

Just ask her out. Do NOT do the big formal dinner and a movie, that's not a good first date for people who already know each other. An activity would be best.

Even without your derision of that idea, it didn't seem like anywhere near as good an idea after a night's sleep. I think I was just upset and (as I said) not thinking clearly.

Now I just need to decide what that activity should be... And probably fairly soon, since I'm thinking I should ask before her possible dinner with him tonight.

edit: Oh, and Serp, do tell! Guess it was my turn to be all ME! and ignore someone else's posts. (who's next? anyone?)
edited to actually use proper english

[Asta Kask]

Soooo. I has a date :3
Jus' sayin'...

I thought you had a Boyfriend?

Is the date with your Boyfriend?

[Rawhide]

I thought you had a Boyfriend?


Broke up cuz leaving and not in love and stuff.


Is the date with your Boyfriend?


Guuuuuuuuuys.
If you've read my diary-whatsit, you might remember I talk about someone called Sinta. One of her friends, who works on the beach, gave me a lift home on his bike the other night. He's pretty cute, and has a weirdly ocker accent :smallamused:
Apparently he was asking where I was and was asking Sinta for my number XD
Aside from being supes flattering, :smallamused: and this being a general "eeeeeeee someones interested in me! :smallbiggrin:" thing... GAAAAAWWWWWD so awkward >.< Srsly. Words cannot express how awkward I'll be.
Just... Awkwardness. So much.

edit: Alright, few more specifics on the sources of awkwardness.
1. I'm no good at talking with non-geeks, and cute as he is I've been realising I'm even not terribly attracted to such people (even purely lustily! :O).
2. I struggle with language differences and accents :/ Although the accent's not so much of an issue in this case...

. . .

[Serpentine]

Terima kasih, Rawhide :smallsmile:
Ooo, Miss Serpentine, oooooooo.
Tell us. Spill all the juicy details.We had dinner and talked and then we rode around on his motorbike :B

Didn't need to worry about awkwardness. The guy can talk... Not always about happy stuff :/ Apparently like 3 years ago his basically-fiancee of 6 years died in a car accident :smallfrown:

[Asta Kask]

So your job was to sit still, keep silent and be pretty.

You're really only suited to the third...

[Delusion]

Terima kasih, Rawhide :smallsmile:We had dinner and talked and then we rode around on his motorbike :B

Didn't need to worry about awkwardness. The guy can talk... Not always about happy stuff :/ Apparently like 3 years ago his basically-fiancee of 6 years died in a car accident :smallfrown:

I really really should not say this but...

..Did he you tell you that before, or after you rode around on his motorbike?


...:smallredface:

[rogueboy]

We had dinner and talked and then we rode around on his motorbike :B

Didn't need to worry about awkwardness. The guy can talk... Not always about happy stuff :/ Apparently like 3 years ago his basically-fiancee of 6 years died in a car accident :smallfrown:

Sounds like it went well, especially the lack of awkwardness part. Not really sure what to make of the not-all-happy part, but I guess I don't really have to know? I'm just rambling, but I'm happy for you!

---------------

As to finishing up (well, ok, not-so-finishing... continuing) from my last few posts...

I sent her a fairly long (~3 long paragraphs, plus a few one-sentencers) email explaining myself. Not the ideal way to do it, I know, and I mentioned that (twice, maybe, throughout the entire email), but it's the best I could trust myself to do at the moment. Not only because I felt sick to my stomach whenever I thought about it (mostly because I may be too late), but also because I've tried for a long time to get around to asking her out, and failed every time, even when there was no good reason. This guaranteed me getting it out there, at the least.

She hasn't responded in any way, and I haven't seen her since I sent it (about an hour, hour-and-a-half ago), so I'm not sure if she's seen it yet. However, she's been on her computer a lot today (she's working on a presentation, based on last night's conversation), so she may have seen it.

I guess I'm just in a wait-and-see mode on that for the moment... If I haven't heard from her, I may bring it up on Monday. God I'm pathetic... (ok, only sometimes, but still).

[Coidzor]

Coid, what exactly are you defining as hearsay? Because to me, that typically means at least second-hand info, if not more distant. This was something that she said, explicitly. It was also discussed by a couple of other people (which could be defined as hearsay, except that they were talking to her about it...)

Ah, misread it. Comes from posting while passing out, I suppose.

Still, it doesn't seem like she revealed anything other than a date and possibly being excited about it.

So the rest of the point still stands. Err, stood? Honestly not sure what's left to you now that you've done that... :smallconfused:

You really ought not to have sent an email that's got any chance of being interpreted as a wall of text. :smalleek:

[rogueboy]

So the rest of the point still stands. Err, stood? Honestly not sure what's left to you now that you've done that... :smallconfused:

You really ought not to have sent an email that's got any chance of being interpreted as a wall of text. :smalleek:

Possibly not, but what's done is done. I'm hoping that she'll see the latter... enormous majority as being what I intended it as: why now? I got to my point within about 2 sentences, so hopefully I stand a chance.

[Coidzor]

Possibly not, but what's done is done. I'm hoping that she'll see the latter... enormous majority as being what I intended it as: why now? I got to my point within about 2 sentences, so hopefully I stand a chance.

Why what now? :smallconfused:

[rogueboy]

Why what now? :smallconfused:

Why I'm asking now, as opposed to any time in the past. I'm a crazy person, I know this (as do all of my friends, including her).

[Coidzor]

Why I'm asking now, as opposed to any time in the past. I'm a crazy person, I know this (as do all of my friends, including her).

You're... coming across rather garbled. :smallconfused:

I very much doubt that she's interested in why you chose now to tell her of your interest and it's not really at the heart of the matter anyway.

That you're interested in her is.

Really, that kind of thing being asked of you by her would be rather rude and a bit of a pointless question. So I don't really see the point in needlessly volunteering that information up when your priority was expressing interest without making any more of an ass of yourself than necessary. :smallconfused:

[rogueboy]

You're... coming across rather garbled. :smallconfused:

I very much doubt that she's interested in why you chose now to tell her of your interest and it's not really at the heart of the matter anyway.

That you're interested in her is.

Really, that kind of thing being asked of you by her would be rather rude and a bit of a pointless question. So I don't really see the point in needlessly volunteering that information up when your priority was expressing interest without making any more of an ass of yourself than necessary. :smallconfused:

As you've pointed out, I may have had a mild case of diarrhea of the keyboard in that email, and it probably wasn't all necessary. It is, however, how I think, talk, and otherwise communicate most of the time. One of my many, many faults, and honestly not one that's particularly high on my "fix this!" list, at least for the moment (I have enough other things that are more damaging).

However, I did go back and look at the email I sent (previous posts have been off of my memory of the email, not actually looking at it). In terms of wall-of-text issues, it'll obviously depend on what is defined as wall of text, but it isn't nearly as bad as I had implied earlier. It's 5 blocks of text (plus my name), 4 of which are only 2-3 sentences (2 lines, at least on my screen). The remaining (second) paragraph is longer: 6 lines, probably no more than 12 sentences or so, varying in length from short (~5 words) to long (maybe 15 words?). I haven't counted words in sentences, or sentences in the long paragraph.

Also, I think I was less garbled in the email than I have been in my last couple posts, but I haven't gone through it to check that (and I'm not going to, for a lot of reasons). The last post or 2 I haven't really put any thought into the words for, so a lack of clarity or sense isn't entirely surprising. Sadly, I'm just not in a mood (or maybe I'm just hungry, idk) to do much in the way of thinking about wording.

[Serpentine]

So your job was to sit still, keep silent and be pretty.

You're really only suited to the third...:confused: :annoyed:


I really really should not say this but...

..Did he you tell you that before, or after you rode around on his motorbike?


...:smallredface:Heh. Before, and he had nothing to do with it - he was in Bali at the time, and the accident happened in Java.

[Asta Kask]

:confused: :annoyed:

Sorry. :smallredface:

[Serpentine]

Glad to hear it :smallannoyed:

[Zeb The Troll]

Glad to hear it :smallannoyed:I think the point he was trying to make was that you don't seem to be the type to just sit down and shut up, not that you're only good at being pretty, though I could see how it might be interpreted that way.

[The Succubus]

I think that's what Asta was trying to say and to echo Zeb's sentiments, you do strike me as being the lively and bubbly sort of person. :smallsmile:

[Asta Kask]

I think the point he was trying to make was that you don't seem to be the type to just sit down and shut up, not that you're only good at being pretty, though I could see how it might be interpreted that way.

Yes, that was the point. Of these three things, you're only suited to being pretty. You are not suited to sit down and shut up. But I always apologize on principle.

[Coidzor]

See, I thought she was peeved that he had indirectly stated that she would go on a date with someone who wanted that.

But, I must admit, it wasn't quite clear...

[rogueboy]

Ok, Playground, time for round whatever-it-is-now from this weekend's adventure... (if you don't know what I'm referring to, scroll up; there's several posts from me about this, from Friday night and Saturday morning)

I just ran into her in the hall (she was about to get on the elevator, so no real opportunity for conversation here): she's seen that I've emailed her (I sent it Sat afternoon), but hasn't read it yet; she's been working on a presentation while dealing with bronchitis and a few other things, so she's going home to sleep now.

So the question is this: do I do anything more than just wait? If I'm going to do anything, the thoughts I've had are to 1) ask her (via text) to ignore the email, and just find me to talk at some point or 2) tell her it's her choice on reading the email, but talk to me at some point.

I'm not really sure what to do at this point. Any advice is appreciated, as always.

edit: this may be fairly irrelevant if she went home and read the email, although I didn't get the impression that was on her list of plans for the afternoon

------

Does it say something about me if I read Asta's comment how he intended it, given that quite a few people seem to have misinterpreted it? Or that it took me several attempts, and all the explanations, to see the alternative interpretations? I tend to get semi-tunnel vision, so it wouldn't surprise me if that seems really weird to people.

[Asta Kask]

Clearly we are soulmates and should live together.

[Asta Kask]

What I need is a confidence fluffer - someone who can keep my self-confidence up as I'm about to ask a girl out.

Any volunteers?

[rogueboy]

*cue suggestive tone* I'll fluff your confidence. *cue 'that's what she said' jokes*

I'm sorry, it had to be done.

In more seriousness, I have limited options from across the Atlantic, however as soul mates who are destined to live together I believe I am obliged to provide something here... therefore: You are awesome! Like, incredibly awesome!

Can I stop being weird and mildly creepy yet? Or do I have to continue?

[Coidzor]

I just ran into her in the hall (she was about to get on the elevator, so no real opportunity for conversation here): she's seen that I've emailed her (I sent it Sat afternoon), but hasn't read it yet; she's been working on a presentation while dealing with bronchitis and a few other things, so she's going home to sleep now.

Well, really, if you were going to say screw the email and talk to her directly, your best opportunity was while you had hold of her in meatspace. Even if you had to get into the elevator with her.

Still, your best option is either A. wait and leave the ball in her court or B. call her and ask her out over the phone. I suppose a C that could be stated would be if you had any opportunity to see her in person instead and just have it out in person.

Calling her up or, worse, texting her and telling her to ignore the email and instead contact you herself after you went to the trouble of calling her or texting her is one of those things that is just not a good idea. Since not only are you putting off the actual conversation, you're also piquing her interest and making her think you said something regrettable and dumb that bears examination.


So the question is this: do I do anything more than just wait? If I'm going to do anything, the thoughts I've had are to 1) ask her (via text) to ignore the email, and just find me to talk at some point or 2) tell her it's her choice on reading the email, but talk to me at some point.

Neither of those are very good options, especially for you to make yourself think are the sole choices you have in the situation other than do nothing.

If you can't talk to her except via text that's a bad sign for the reception of you and your email and the health/status of your current relationship, so, really, that leaves a phone conversation and then that leads back to the question of why one isn't just having the conversation out over the phone.


edit: this may be fairly irrelevant if she went home and read the email, although I didn't get the impression that was on her list of plans for the afternoon

Well, that's potentially a bad sign for how she views you, after you had told her you'd sent her an email that was important enough for you to ask her about whether she'd received it and she didn't give any real indication that she would be taking the time to read it.

But then again, that you told her to check her email without just telling her about it could have just made her less likely to do so because you doing that downplayed the importance and urgency of the message and thus any impetus for her to read it.


Does it say something about me if I read Asta's comment how he intended it, given that quite a few people seem to have misinterpreted it? Or that it took me several attempts, and all the explanations, to see the alternative interpretations? I tend to get semi-tunnel vision, so it wouldn't surprise me if that seems really weird to people.

Every quality we possess or characteristic we show says something about us. Figuring out just what it says is a study that men devote their entire lives to. And women too, for that matter.


Also, once you commit, you generally need to commit to the joke, though it's good to know your limits as far as how willing you're going to take it without getting feedback and play from the other end.

[Morph Bark]

Just remember the Jedi Master's advice:

http://flowingdata.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/yoda-625x468.jpg

This would be even better if it was made into a Yin-Yang symbol. :smalltongue:


Rogueboy: even after reading it, the girl might want to take some time to reply, whether her reply will be favourable or not. Sometimes a person just needs a little time to think about it. Until then, don't hound her about it, because then she will only say yes if she's really into you. And even then she may want to wait and hang out with you more casually first, depending on how your relationship is right now.

[The Succubus]

What I need is a confidence fluffer - someone who can keep my self-confidence up as I'm about to ask a girl out.

Any volunteers?

Ah, I think I can do this....*ahem*:


Asta, you can do this because if you don't I will break every bone in your body, starting with your kneecaps.


......Am I doing it right? :smallbiggrin:

[Reluctance]

Confidence fluffer, right here (http://www.after5catalog.com/beer-hat-p-802.html). Pity it's such a fashion no-no.

[rogueboy]

Neither of those are very good options, especially for you to make yourself think are the sole choices you have in the situation other than do nothing.

If you can't talk to her except via text that's a bad sign for the reception of you and your email and the health/status of your current relationship, so, really, that leaves a phone conversation and then that leads back to the question of why one isn't just having the conversation out over the phone.

I didn't mean to imply that I thought those were the only options available to me. They were what I had come up with at that point, very shortly after our brief talk in the hall (see below for more on that).

Texting isn't the only way I can talk to her, it's just the simplest. I've only talked to her on the phone once or twice, and even that was an odd circumstance (although I don't remember what it was). Normal interactions are in person, via gchat, or text, in that order of preference. If we're just wasting time trying to entertain ourselves while waiting on work stuff, gchat will take over, but for anything of actual substance or any significant interactions, we usually talk in person.


Well, that's potentially a bad sign for how she views you, after you had told her you'd sent her an email that was important enough for you to ask her about whether she'd received it and she didn't give any real indication that she would be taking the time to read it.

But then again, that you told her to check her email without just telling her about it could have just made her less likely to do so because you doing that downplayed the importance and urgency of the message and thus any impetus for her to read it.

I... think there's some confusion here. I didn't bring it up. She mentioned it in a (very) brief exchange in the hall. More complete story in the spoiler.

When I was walking by the elevators, she was standing there, leaning her head against the wall and generally looking not well. I stopped and asked if she was feeling sick (whatever I may want in the end here, showing that I care when my friends are sick is something I can't avoid doing, even if it's somewhat counterproductive). She mentioned the general crappiness, that she had seen I sent her an email (but hadn't read it yet, due to having ~4 things due very soon for research), and that she was going home to sleep. I responded with my usual, semi-sarcastic-style (it's how I've always interacted with her, and her with me). Could I have handled it better, trying to move into the conversation then? Possibly. But I also know that she often isn't thinking entirely clearly when she's feeling like crap, which is why I didn't pursue the conversation then. Add in the fact that it wouldn't have been, at all, a private conversation (which I'd prefer it be, or at least somewhat isolated from labmates), and you have my reasons for not going further then.



Also, once you commit, you generally need to commit to the joke, though it's good to know your limits as far as how willing you're going to take it without getting feedback and play from the other end.

I... have no idea what you're saying.

Morph - Good to know that I'm not just deluding myself by thinking that might be the case (to be honest, I had figured that she had read my email, and just wanted to wait until we could talk in person, since I wasn't in lab yesterday - hence my confusion as to what to do now).

While I wouldn't rule it an impossibility, I'd be a little surprised if she wanted to stick to the "let's just hang out casually for now" thing. We met each other when we started grad school in Aug '10, and have been friends since. We've spent a lot of hours just hanging out and talking, both with and without others around. I've gotten no impressions that she doesn't enjoy hanging out with me, at the least.

[Zeb The Troll]

I... think there's some confusion here. I didn't bring it up. She mentioned it in a (very) brief exchange in the hall. More complete story in the spoiler.

When I was walking by the elevators, she was standing there, leaning her head against the wall and generally looking not well. I stopped and asked if she was feeling sick (whatever I may want in the end here, showing that I care when my friends are sick is something I can't avoid doing, even if it's somewhat counterproductive). She mentioned the general crappiness, that she had seen I sent her an email (but hadn't read it yet, due to having ~4 things due very soon for research), and that she was going home to sleep. I responded with my usual, semi-sarcastic-style (it's how I've always interacted with her, and her with me). Could I have handled it better, trying to move into the conversation then? Possibly. But I also know that she often isn't thinking entirely clearly when she's feeling like crap, which is why I didn't pursue the conversation then. Add in the fact that it wouldn't have been, at all, a private conversation (which I'd prefer it be, or at least somewhat isolated from labmates), and you have my reasons for not going further then.In my opinion, and with my understanding of the situation as presented, this was the perfect way to handle this encounter. She's not feeling well so acknowledge that first and show your compassion and concern, particularly when its genuine. Not harping on the message once she brought it up, in this case, would likely show that the message isn't as important as her well being and keeping your response to your normal style of banter is generally a positive thing. The desire to have the conversation somewhat private is typically better for both of you too.

[Serpentine]

I think the point he was trying to make was that you don't seem to be the type to just sit down and shut up, not that you're only good at being pretty, though I could see how it might be interpreted that way.
See, I thought she was peeved that he had indirectly stated that she would go on a date with someone who wanted that.

But, I must admit, it wasn't quite clear...That's closer to what I got from it, but mostly "he talked a lot and then you went on a bike ride? Clearly he's a jerk who just wants you to stfu and be eyecandy! Forget the whole thing that you talked pretty much exactly as much as you wanted to and that you adore riding bikes! Your date was bad and you should feel bad!"
That's what I got from it :smallannoyed:

Something to amuse you, rile you up, or freak you out, depending on your disposition: last night I had an Indonesian man (my cousin's husband's nephew) come into my room and try to get me to kiss him and *ahem ahem* etc, and he wouldn't leave until I repeatedly threatened to wake up my other cousin who was sleeping in the same room. He was drunk, and he said he "loves" me, and today was pretty awkward.
So that's fun :smallsmile:

[Asta Kask]

Let's just say you put a lot more thought into my post than I did.

[Morph Bark]

What I need is a confidence fluffer - someone who can keep my self-confidence up as I'm about to ask a girl out.

Any volunteers?

I've been told I am apparently great at this, but it's only been with people I know a little and regarding the situation.

[Serpentine]

Something to amuse you, rile you up, or freak you out, depending on your disposition: last night I had an Indonesian man (my cousin's husband's nephew) come into my room and try to get me to kiss him and *ahem ahem* etc, and he wouldn't leave until I repeatedly threatened to wake up my other cousin who was sleeping in the same room. He was drunk, and he said he "loves" me, and today was pretty awkward.
So that's fun :smallsmile:So last night he apologised, and I accepted, and then later I woke up to him leaning over me and... something... touching my bum. Wheeee! I gave a pretty great shriek that scared the hell out of him and my cousin sleeping in the same room, and ended up telling him what happened. If I thought yesterday was awkward.... eeeegh.
I gave him a letter in bad Bahasa Indonesia that basically amounts to "wtf dude? I'd like to be on good terms, but my God!" If he does anything after that, I punch him in the face and tell his uncle.
Side-note: I'm sure he meant well, but my goodness my cousin has a knack for saying exactly the wrong thing - things like "you should probably tell [his sister], he'll probably get beaten up by [sister's husband], never come back here again", "he probably wasn't doing anything. Just wanted to, like, lie in bed with you or something" and "it's not a big deal. I mean, in a way, it is, but it's not really." I'm pretty sure he was just trying to be reassuring, but it's pretty much the opposite of "what to say when your cousin's being sexually assaulted" :smallbiggrin: :smallconfused:

[Coidzor]

I should think that after the first indiscretion it would be worth mentioning as something that needed an explanation by someone he respected as to why that was stupid and wrong. :smallconfused:

I'm not seeing why the second wouldn't be brought up as a matter of course unless they were the type of people to encourage that kind of bad behavior. :smallyuk:

[The Succubus]

I dunno - the behaviour of this guy is really edging into "creepy" territory for me. You told him to shoo and that you weren't interested once and then he came back and started doing creepy stuff again....

Be careful Serps and take care of yourself. :smallfrown:

[Serpentine]

It's a bit beyond creepy... But I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that it was just dumb drunken stupidity and/or cultural miscommunication. I would certainly not blame someone else for taking "official" action by now. I just... I dunno. I don't want to get him into trouble for being a moron (yet), y'know? I don't know why I'm not more angry. I probably would be if he'd done it to someone else. It's weird.
Once is ignorance and/or booze, twice is idiotic, thrice is malicious and gets a fist to the face and telling his uncle, which will likely be worse.

[The Succubus]

Well, keep something hefty to hand just in case, or perhaps wedge something under the door. At least you're sharing a room with someone though.

Also, was there any news about the earthquake that happened near Indonesia late last night or this morning? Appraently there were concerns of a tsunami or something.

[John Cribati]

I have made contact with a female over OKCupid. Or, rather, she has made contact with me. Wish me luck, everyone.

[Skeppio]

I have made contact with a female over OKCupid. Or, rather, she has made contact with me. Wish me luck, everyone.

Good luck! :smallbiggrin:

[Serpentine]

Also, was there any news about the earthquake that happened near Indonesia late last night or this morning? Appraently there were concerns of a tsunami or something.Nope. But I just checked: it was way down the other end of Indonesia, and the tsunami warning was lifted a while ago.

[Drascin]

Oh, man. Why do people always keep coming for relationship advice to the one who has never been a relationship or even kissed a girl? :smalltongue: I mean, I'm happy to be of help, but it's still kind of amusing when looked at coldly.

Man, I think I'm going to need a diagram to keep up with some of the drama webs that have unfolded around me and everything people tell me. I really should get a whiteboard one of these days :smallbiggrin:.

[Scarlet Knight]

So last night he apologised, and I accepted, and then later I woke up to him leaning over me and... something... touching my bum. Wheeee! I gave a pretty great shriek that scared the hell out of him and my cousin sleeping in the same room, and ended up telling him what happened. If I thought yesterday was awkward.... eeeegh.
I gave him a letter in bad Bahasa Indonesia that basically amounts to "wtf dude? I'd like to be on good terms, but my God!" If he does anything after that, I punch him in the face and tell his uncle.
Side-note: I'm sure he meant well, but my goodness my cousin has a knack for saying exactly the wrong thing - things like "you should probably tell [his sister], he'll probably get beaten up by [sister's husband], never come back here again", "he probably wasn't doing anything. Just wanted to, like, lie in bed with you or something" and "it's not a big deal. I mean, in a way, it is, but it's not really." I'm pretty sure he was just trying to be reassuring, but it's pretty much the opposite of "what to say when your cousin's being sexually assaulted" :smallbiggrin: :smallconfused:

I am not Indonesian, but I believe ( according to a recent TV show) that kidnapping & rape is an acceptable form of courting there. Be very careful.

[Serpentine]

I doubt that. What sort of TV show?

[Rawhide]

Oh, man. Why do people always keep coming for relationship advice to the one who has never been a relationship or even kissed a girl? :smalltongue: I mean, I'm happy to be of help, but it's still kind of amusing when looked at coldly.

Man, I think I'm going to need a diagram to keep up with some of the drama webs that have unfolded around me and everything people tell me. I really should get a whiteboard one of these days :smallbiggrin:.

http://xkcd.com/403/

[Sholos]

I have made contact with a female over OKCupid. Or, rather, she has made contact with me. Wish me luck, everyone.

May you have better luck than I. The only girl to contact me so far has completely disappeared after a good two months of talking back and forth. :smallfrown:

[Coidzor]

It's a bit beyond creepy... But I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that it was just dumb drunken stupidity and/or cultural miscommunication.

Two nights. Not a simple cultural miscommunication. And if it was, then is that not all the more reason to bring in the people who have the most experience translating between the two cultures? At least, I'm assuming that your cousin is Australian like yourself or at least the product of a union with a sizeable portion of australian heritage.


I would certainly not blame someone else for taking "official" action by now. I just... I dunno. I don't want to get him into trouble for being a moron (yet), y'know?

So, what, you want him to actually do something worse than this to a different female guest before this is brought up as a problem area? :smallconfused:

Hell, how do you know he hasn't made a habit of this, been told off about it before, and is just being sneaky and relying on women assuming the same things that you are to keep him safe?


I dunno - the behaviour of this guy is really edging into "creepy" territory for me. You told him to shoo and that you weren't interested once and then he came back and started doing creepy stuff again....

Waking a woman in the middle of the night by rubbing one's genitals on her the night after trying to buffalo and bully her into sleeping with one's self is so far beyond creepy it's the kind of thing that makes people like me suspect criminal proclivities or just simply assume that they are, in fact, criminals.

Because, really, if he does this kind of stupid, abusive stuff while drunk.... And then chooses to get drunk anyway while there are female guests in the house, well, he's choosing to do it well in advance. Being drunk ain't beans for an excuse.

[Reluctance]

Because, really, if he does this kind of stupid, abusive stuff while drunk.... And then chooses to get drunk anyway while there are female guests in the house, well, he's choosing to do it well in advance. Being drunk ain't beans for an excuse.

This. I'd be inclined to be lenient if his first sober words after that were profuse apologies. And his first sober act after that was emptying all his booze down the drain.

If he doesn't take any steps to avoid similar situations, and in fact repeats himself the next night, that's not being sorry. Or at least, it's not respecting you enough to care how it makes you feel. At which point, you should show as much regard for his well-being as he does for yours.

[Morph Bark]

May you have better luck than I. The only girl to contact me so far has completely disappeared after a good two months of talking back and forth. :smallfrown:

When on the internet, I tend to expect such things.

What I don't expect is someone else apparently pranking me and signing me up for a dating site and then me getting an e-mail every other week about someone apparently interested. ._.

[Serpentine]

Those are all arguments that have come up in my own head and/or in discussion with my cousin. I'm still pondering.

[Moonshadow]

I have made contact with a female over OKCupid. Or, rather, she has made contact with me. Wish me luck, everyone.


May you have better luck than I. The only girl to contact me so far has completely disappeared after a good two months of talking back and forth. :smallfrown:

I'll give you both the same advice. Make your intentions clear. Ask for a date sooner, rather than later. If you get a good, steady stream of conversation flowing, then I'd ask to meet generally after a week or so.

If you're getting 1 message every 3 days, they probably aren't interested, and I'd move on.

[Starwulf]

It's a bit beyond creepy... But I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that it was just dumb drunken stupidity and/or cultural miscommunication. I would certainly not blame someone else for taking "official" action by now. I just... I dunno. I don't want to get him into trouble for being a moron (yet), y'know? I don't know why I'm not more angry. I probably would be if he'd done it to someone else. It's weird.
Once is ignorance and/or booze, twice is idiotic, thrice is malicious and gets a fist to the face and telling his uncle, which will likely be worse.

I'll echo Coidzor here and say that I would give a bit more thought in to whether or not you should be reporting this(ie: you really should). In the meantime, I truly hope nothing bad happens on the third night. I would give some serious consideration towards sleeping with a weapon and/or doors locked(if that's an option, I have no idea the customs of sleeping in another country). His behavior is so far beyond creepy and even remotely "ok"...it's actually quite scary.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Holy crap Serpentine. :smalleek: That goes far, far beyond acceptable behavior. Sleep with a baseball bat.

[Serpentine]

The main reason, at this point, I'd tell his uncle is out of concern for whether he might do something - more forceful - to someone else. I'm quite certain this is the first time he's done it, at least in this particular situation, and he hasn't even been around today (normally he's pretty much a constant presence, along with several other unmarried, unemployed family members and friends-of-family). His uncle noticed him acting strangely, too. And I think I gave him a jolly good scare...
I may tell my other cousin, so she can keep an eye on him. Still deciding.

[H Birchgrove]

Serpentine, tell his uncle and your cousin ASAP. Don't let him get inside your house/room, at least unless he's sober and you have company. If he tries anything like that on your person again, use whatever means necessarily to defend yourself.


I have made contact with a female over OKCupid. Or, rather, she has made contact with me. Wish me luck, everyone.

Good luck! :smallsmile:

[Reluctance]

Coffee: Have you said anything to your boy yet? If not, rip the bandage off and tell him. Call him today and report back. Because if you don't, if you let your feet drag incessantly, eventually someone else will have the ladyballs. And I don't want to hear yet the inevitable "what could I have done differently?" posts when everybody has been telling you for a while.

Serp: At least tell your cousin. It's easy to think "this is the first time this has ever happened", which lets the person reoffend with someone new. At the very least, try to make sure that if this does happen again with someone else, she can have a way to find out that this isn't an "only this once" sort of thing. And can gauge her response accordingly.

It does make me sad for him. I've seen the "I can't find anybody" turn in on itself and sour the person from the inside out far too many times. A pity that the "practical advice" community is obviousness and empty homilies on the one side, and shilling misandry/misogyny on the other. "Actually change things and break out of your rut" is thin on the ground.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Coffee: Have you said anything to your boy yet? If not, rip the bandage off and tell him. Call him today and report back. Because if you don't, if you let your feet drag incessantly, eventually someone else will have the ladyballs. And I don't want to hear yet the inevitable "what could I have done differently?" posts when everybody has been telling you for a while.

I'm meeting him tomorrow, so I'll tell him tomorrow or Saturday evening (I'm spending a couple nights in his dorm room). Wish me luck!

[Asta Kask]

Here's for luck!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EnZ2FxrArm8/TqguGVHHgRI/AAAAAAAADIA/J7-ksfDY_j4/s320/all-thumbs-up.jpg

[John Cribati]

All of the luck. All of it.

If it works out, you should make the Playground your first child's unofficial godparents. Yes, the entire playground at once.

[Coidzor]

I'm meeting him tomorrow, so I'll tell him tomorrow or Saturday evening (I'm spending a couple nights in his dorm room). Wish me luck!

Brown Chicken, Brown Cow! :smallbiggrin:

[H Birchgrove]

Here's for luck!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EnZ2FxrArm8/TqguGVHHgRI/AAAAAAAADIA/J7-ksfDY_j4/s320/all-thumbs-up.jpg

Don't do that in Thailand... :smalltongue:

(Kudos to George Takei. :smallamused: )

[DeadManSleeping]

(I'm spending a couple nights in his dorm room)

:smallamused:

...

:amused:

[Astrella]

I'm meeting him tomorrow, so I'll tell him tomorrow or Saturday evening (I'm spending a couple nights in his dorm room). Wish me luck!

Good luck!

[Coidzor]

:smallamused:

...

:amused:

Like the new avatar. Also, thanks for pointing that out, my comment is even more pertinent than I had imagined. :smallamused:

[DeadManSleeping]

Like the new avatar.

You're the first. People seem to not care to google.

[fizzybobnewt]

http://xkcd.com/403/

I thought this was going to be the one where nerds try to logically figure out how people work. :smalltongue:


Anyway, that girl I asked out (talked about it earlier, let's call her "Bellatrix"), what she specifically said was "I don't like you in that way", and it did not, in fact, mean "let's just be friends". It was more like "let's just be enemies".
This I deduce, because since then she has tried her darndest not to even look in my direction, and the time we were forced to interact, the one thing she said was "spare me." This is a far cry from the past, when my day included an inordinately high percentage of her laughing at my jokes (I may have been a bit fixated on her at the time).
I would talk to her about this dramatic change, but the only time I see her, we are surrounded my our friends (mostly hers), and anyway, she's ignoring me.
I don't know about her, but it's making it awkward for me sometimes. What do I do?

[Reluctance]

Fizzy: If you have a basement, there's always stockholm syndrome.

More seriously, you gave it away at fixated. It sounds like you were more than a little much, skeeved her, and now she's hoping that if she ignores you that you'll go away. It's immature, but it's not like there's any good way to tell you that you've crossed the total creepazoid line. There's really nothing you can do, other than hold yourself back the next time you develop a crush.

Coffee: If everything you say is true, you don't need luck. You need encouragement. Or failing that, fear. So if you come back without good news, I'm telling all these puppies (http://cute-puppies-and-dogs-photos.blogspot.com/2011/05/cute-puppies.html) that Santa Claus isn't real. If your nerve falters for any reason, think about all those heartbroken faces. And realize it'll all be on your head.

[Heliomance]

Coffee: If everything you say is true, you don't need luck. You need encouragement. Or failing that, fear. So if you come back without good news, I'm telling all these puppies (http://cute-puppies-and-dogs-photos.blogspot.com/2011/05/cute-puppies.html) that Santa Claus isn't real. If your nerve falters for any reason, think about all those heartbroken faces. And realize it'll all be on your head.

http://www.planetatty.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/facebook_like_icon.png Heliomance likes this post.

[Morph Bark]

http://www.planetatty.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/facebook_like_icon.png Heliomance likes this post.

http://www.planetatty.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/facebook_like_icon.png Morph Bark likes this post. And is also a total copycat.

But yes. Coffee, you can do it. Just think of yourself as the strongest brewn espresso out there , the tastiest cappuccino, the creamiest latté and go for it.

Believe in us who believe in you.

[Form]

I think I might be developing another bit of a crush. It feels rather nice so far. ^^

I should ask her out some time. I don't know if she's single, but asking her out will probably resolve that. Or maybe I could ask a buddy of mine if he knows about that. Ah well, I'll see.

Anyway, for now I'll just enjoy the feeling. :smallsmile:

[Asta Kask]

:smallamused:

...

:amused:

*withholds tasteless comment*

[Morph Bark]

Anyway, for now I'll just enjoy the feeling. :smallsmile:

Which is the best idea, prolly, though don't build it up to high heaven, because if you fall then, you fall hard, and not in the good way.

[Form]

Which is the best idea, prolly, though don't build it up to high heaven, because if you fall then, you fall hard, and not in the good way.

Yeah, I know. As long as I take a relaxed attitude it probably won't feel that bad if nothing comes from this.

[Coidzor]

Which is the best idea, prolly, though don't build it up to high heaven, because if you fall then, you fall hard, and not in the good way.

Och, aye. Do not be like Charlie Brown from that one SMBC strip. And iron, hot, striking.

[Morph Bark]

Also, always beware if the person is in a relationship and still responds positively to your advances after you've stated your feelings. Three semesters ago I became close friends with a girl in my Psych classes and one week all of a sudden I started getting all shaky and nervous around her and realized I was in love with her. I told her so and said "I know you have a boyfriend, so I wanted to explain and apologize for my strange behaviour and I'll manage to deal with this on my own". She replied that I shouldn't, because the feelings were mutual. Long story short: it did not end well. Granted, her relationship with her boyfriend was rather bad, but that doesn't matter if it ends with you not getting any further either.

Not talking to you in particular, Form. It's just that you reminded me of that situation I had and how it started. :smallsmile:

[Popertop]

Its strange to keep seeing my younger friends, who graduated two or three years after me, getting married.

Especially since I have yet to have a lasting relationship, or feel emotionally attached to anyone for more then seven or eight months and I start to think that something is seriously wrong with me.

QFT, this is how I've been feeling recently as well.

Sometimes I wonder if I'll ever end up happy in a lasting relationship.

[CoffeeIncluded]

So I told him and...no. He doesn't feel that way about me. I've been friendzoned. :smalltongue:

It's okay though. Well, of course I'm heartbroken but things will be okay. We're still best friends, we talked it out and we're going to destress over hot chocolate. So I'll be fine.

[Comrade]

So I told him and...no. He doesn't feel that way about me. I've been friendzoned. :smalltongue:

It's okay though. Well, of course I'm heartbroken but things will be okay. We're still best friends, we talked it out and we're going to destress over hot chocolate. So I'll be fine.

Damn, that's rough. But at the very least, staying friends is good when it works out, right? Sometimes doesn't, but it's better to have that than to lose any friendship whatsoever over it.

Then again, I wouldn't altogether know myself, since I've literally never met a girl I'd take an interest in, and therefore never been in a relationship. Which still strikes me as kinda weird. Maybe because I'm way too specific when it comes to girls I'd take an interest in. That aside.

Yeah, I'm just posting here...well, one, to comment on CoffeeIncluded's situation. Also because I've been lurking around here for a while and figured it was about time I actually posted something.

Yeah.

[Reluctance]

So I told him and...no. He doesn't feel that way about me. I've been friendzoned. :smalltongue:

It's okay though. Well, of course I'm heartbroken but things will be okay. We're still best friends, we talked it out and we're going to destress over hot chocolate. So I'll be fine.

Because I made the stink about working up the nerve, I'll be the cheerful fairy to point out how this is still a better outcome than waiting in the wings forever:

He still sounds like an awesome friend for holding your hand through all this. Breathe deep, take some time insisting that all men are poopyheads if you need it to let off some steam, but keep in mind that you didn't lose an awesome friendship. On that front, you're no worse off than you were longing after him from afar.
You said "hey, I like you". The sky did not fall, you were not banished to the island of the hideous and unloveable, and the worst that happened was nothing happening. Too many people are chicken about making the first move. When you remember how catastrophic this wasn't, you'll be more able to make the first move on the next guy you crush on, without building it up as much. Being able to say "hey, wanna go out" earlier on means you can get a yea/nea sooner, spending less time in limbo before you find a guy who thinks you're as amazing as you think he is.
You know. As much as it might sting, you can stop waiting around for things to transmogrify. You can stop ignoring every other potential date because you have blinders for the one dude. Given how long you were agonizing over him for, not having that over your head should be a relative relief.


So net win Team Coffee. Be all broody and bitter for a bit if it helps you process, then you can keep your eyes open for fresh new options.

[Starwulf]

So I told him and...no. He doesn't feel that way about me. I've been friendzoned. :smalltongue:

It's okay though. Well, of course I'm heartbroken but things will be okay. We're still best friends, we talked it out and we're going to destress over hot chocolate. So I'll be fine.

Awww, sorry to hear that Coffee :-(.

[golentan]

So... I realize how creepy this is. Due to roommates/housemates, private time with my GF is hard to come by. Anyone have recommendations for where we could get some private time without spending 50 bucks for the opportunity?

[John Cribati]

So... I realize how creepy this is. Due to roommates/housemates, private time with my GF is hard to come by. Anyone have recommendations for where we could get some private time without spending 50 bucks for the opportunity?

Start making out on the couch/floor/kitchen table. Continue until everyone leaves in disgust.

That's how my parents got me out the house. :smallamused:

[golentan]

Start making out on the couch/floor/kitchen table. Continue until everyone leaves in disgust.

That's how my parents got me out the house. :smallamused:

@_@ golentan disapproves of your strategy.

[Coidzor]

Does the door lock?

Do you have a spare sock? That is colorful and noticeable?

Tie?

Hang one or both of those from the relevant doors. Take a cue from Avenue Q, and the rest should sort itself out.

I suppose you could also ascertain whether your roomie will need anything pressing from your bedroom during the period of time your SO will be over. And advise your housemates to not be doing anything that requires quiet or intense concentration during those hours as you will be entertaining.

[golentan]

Okay, to clarify: My house mates are family members, who neither of us feel comfortable knowing we are having sex. She lives in the living room of a three room apartment, so privacy is not an option there at all.

Homes are pretty much out.

[Reluctance]

Car?

Movie theater for a show/time you know nobody else will go to?

An office/classroom during times when you expect them to be abandoned?

Discovering a mutual love for very loud bands?

[Feytalist]

So I told him and...no. He doesn't feel that way about me. I've been friendzoned. :smalltongue:

That's sucky. :C

But this...


Because I made the stink about working up the nerve, I'll be the cheerful fairy to point out how this is still a better outcome than waiting in the wings forever:

<etc.>

...is really good advice. Heed it. :smalltongue:

You didn't lose a friendship that seems to really mean a lot to you, and you faced your fears and took a scary step. Regardless of outcome, that's a really important lesson to have learned.

We're all proud of you :smallsmile: