Beholder Mage balance

[Meianleader]

Simply, if I were to play a beholder mage (starting at lv1, as one of the generic humanoid races - so no spellstalks to cast many times a round) with one other companion, what could be done to balance it with normal player classes?
I don't suppose something as simple as him being gestalt would create an okay balance?

Assume I'd stay pure beholder mage 'till lv10
-I am aware of the requirements of beholder mage

[Urpriest]

It won't be. 9ths at level 10 are not balanced period, and without that or the beholder requirement or the multiple spells per round there is nothing left of the beholder mage concept.

What is your goal in doing this? What are you trying to preserve?

[tyckspoon]

Quick progression spells as a base class is not balanced, no. Neither is spontaneous casting with the Wizard mechanic for learning new spells. Sounds like a bad idea all 'round to me.

[SaintRidley]

Also, it's a prestige class. You wouldn't be able to touch it at level one anyway, even if the race requirement were removed.

Correct me if I'm wrong and that I misremember any skill prerequisites it might have.


But, as already noted, you're already ridiculously overpowered by virtue of having beholder mage spellcasting advancement.

[Meianleader]

Yes, it won't be balance on its own, or with changes, but what would be the best that could be done without writing an entirely new system?
As in, what free templates/LA's could possibly reasonably bring another up to match such a class (or other things, like making them gestalt)

As for why - a fun concept to which beholder mage would fit very nicely as the starting levels..

..though, forgoeing 9ths & 8ths could work with it rather well, what kind of overall effect would that have?

(the only requirement is to be a beholder & put out your eye)

[Urpriest]

Yes, it won't be balance on its own, or with changes, but what would be the best that could be done without writing an entirely new system?
As in, what free templates/LA's could possibly reasonably bring another up to match such a class (or other things, like making them gestalt)

As for why - a fun concept to which beholder mage would fit very nicely as the starting levels..

..though, forgoeing 9ths & 8ths could work with it rather well, what kind of overall effect would that have?

(the only requirement is to be a beholder & put out your eye)

I already asked: what about Beholder Mage do you want to keep? I don't see a single facet of the concept as viable, but you may value something about the class I don't.

Also, if you want to go with the absurd power of Beholder Mage and are just looking for other classes that could rival it...pretty much the only things that work are other fast progression casters. Unlimited high level spells are literally unbeatable by anything that isn't also unlimited high level spells.

[Meianleader]

To become powerful quickly, specifically using power akin to beholders

other than that, nothing much matters for the concept (though, obviously, that requirement would make the overall build overpowered..)

So I was hoping that someone could think of a way to bring another player character up to such power, be it by making them gestalt or giving free LA (as I wouldn't know how such things would effect the overall balance between us)

fyi, I don't mind if I'm quite underpowered in the end; but quickly gaining power by use of something akin to beholders (obviously, beholder mage works perfectly for that) & being better than beholders are what is important to the concept
(....is that last line proper grammar?)

[Hirax]

You could play a regular wizard on a beholder chassis, with the central eye poked out to preserve the beholder mage theme. If you want power, just go into powerful prestige classes (such as incantatrix) and use powerful spell combos. Otherwise I agree, no part of the beholder mage class is appropriate for player use.

[candycorn]

To become powerful quickly, specifically using power akin to beholders

other than that, nothing much matters for the concept (though, obviously, that requirement would make the overall build overpowered..)

So I was hoping that someone could think of a way to bring another player character up to such power, be it by making them gestalt or giving free LA (as I wouldn't know how such things would effect the overall balance between us)

fyi, I don't mind if I'm quite underpowered in the end; but quickly gaining power by use of something akin to beholders (obviously, beholder mage works perfectly for that) & being better than beholders are what is important to the concept
(....is that last line proper grammar?)

The easiest way to balance this versus a full caster character type is to simply give the other classes 2 levels for every level you have, and give it the ability to quicken spells to free actions for +0 adjustment, a number of times per round equal to half its character level. That's effectively what a beholder mage can do, more or less.

Beholder mage is, quite simply, the most powerful prestige class in the game. It leaves even Planar Shepherd and Incantatrix behind.

[Eldariel]

Beholder Mage has:
- Wizard's spell selection
- Sorcerer's spell preparation
- Fast spell progression
- Multicasting

Cut multicasting away and it's still got the kind of power you'd normally have to sacrifice your firstborns (yes, you actually somehow need to get multiples) for. As said, the most logical solution would frankly be to just play a Wizard instead.

Extending Beholder Mage to be 2 levels per level (just add an empty level only granting HD and spell level) would work but frankly, if you aren't using the multicasting there isn't much Beholderish in the class anyways; you could just as well be a Wizard at that point.

[Meianleader]

-ah

Thank you all.
Helped me realize a few incredibly obvious things I should've seen before ><
(like that progression can just be moved about a bit...)