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Turgon9357
2011-12-30, 10:10 PM
I while back, I found a thread about how people thought a fantasy dwarf would react to modern society, technology, etc. This gave me the idea for this thread, in which we will post things that people do that would grate on a Paladin's brain, but would be unreasonable to freak out and start smiting for. I suppose that the Paladin in question would be more of the Mikonian (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0227.html) heritage, but not as likely to flip out.

I will set the pace:

Picking out specific pieces in a trail mix.

navar100
2011-12-30, 11:31 PM
People posting threads making fun of paladins.

Turgon9357
2011-12-31, 12:43 AM
All in good fun, friend.

Curious
2011-12-31, 12:45 AM
Rule 34. Especially nuns.

VanBuren
2011-12-31, 01:49 AM
Smoking.

Filthy habit, that. :smallbiggrin:

NikitaDarkstar
2011-12-31, 02:03 AM
Atheists. Or maybe that does cause smiting?

Togath
2011-12-31, 03:24 AM
Atheists. Or maybe that does cause smiting?

actually paladins dont need deities for their powers

Vknight
2011-12-31, 11:54 AM
Yes yes they do. They are the divine power source in 4e and in 3x divine spells come from worship(Or reverence/worship of nature, in which case your a druid or ranger).

Siegel
2011-12-31, 12:51 PM
Yes yes they do. They are the divine power source in 4e and in 3x divine spells come from worship(Or reverence/worship of nature, in which case your a druid or ranger).

You could be a paladin of the idea of justice, the same you could be a cleric of justice

navar100
2011-12-31, 02:06 PM
All in good fun, friend.

Funny how it's always paladins who get ridiculed. No postings for jokes specifically about rogues, wizards, druids, monks, warblades, beguilers, psions, etc.

horseboy
2011-12-31, 02:40 PM
People who use pictures of their kids as their avatars in social media, then get pissed off at you for not accepting their friend request. If you want to go on a subscription drive from people you haven't seen in 20 years, have a picture of you from 20 years ago so you can be recognized, not some pink Yoda looking thing in a John Deere hat.

KnightDisciple
2011-12-31, 03:05 PM
People posting threads making fun of paladins.


Funny how it's always paladins who get ridiculed. No postings for jokes specifically about rogues, wizards, druids, monks, warblades, beguilers, psions, etc.
What this guy said. :smallsigh:


You could be a paladin of the idea of justice, the same you could be a cleric of justiceThis is correct. Neither class requires choosing a deity. You could quite easily be a paladin who doesn't choose any one deity, or any deity, but still fights to uphold Law and Good.


Rule 34. Especially nuns. YES. UGH. :smallfurious:

Seriously, that's kind of a pet peeve if I ever at all stop to think about it at all. It's a perverted twisting of the whole concept behind nuns (who are distinct from "priestesses" or other similar roles), and basically is a horrible slap in the face to the concept. The people who "rule 34" nuns should be ashamed of themselves. :smallmad:

VanBuren
2011-12-31, 03:11 PM
Funny how it's always paladins who get ridiculed. No postings for jokes specifically about rogues, wizards, druids, monks, warblades, beguilers, psions, etc.

Those other classes don't have the same uptight stereotypes that paladins sometimes have. It's a lot like asking why the Fighter never gets made fun of for being Tier 1.

Dr.Epic
2011-12-31, 03:35 PM
Saving children:smallwink:

You never said they had to be a LG paladin. A paladin of slaughter wouldn't like that.

Coidzor
2011-12-31, 03:56 PM
Sexual promiscuity.

The internet. All of it.


Funny how it's always paladins who get ridiculed. No postings for jokes specifically about rogues, wizards, druids, monks, warblades, beguilers, psions, etc.

Well, to be fair, there are stupid rogue tricks and stupid monk tricks that have been discussed in the past.

But, really, making fun of the monk is like making fun of the truenamer. Like shooting fish in a barrel. Also, Monks generally get thought of as generally more humble, possibly because they realize subconsciously how useless their path has made them. Paladins, on the other hand, are popularly thought of as full of themselves, so poking holes in the bag of hot air is kinda cathartic.

GnomeFighter
2011-12-31, 04:03 PM
Atheists. Or maybe that does cause smiting?

Would a Paladin ever meet an atheist? Somewhat hard to say you don't belive in a being people have proof of. Rather like people saying they don't belive in the existance of Jay Leno or Helen Mirren (not counting the players who try).

Draconi Redfir
2011-12-31, 04:11 PM
Teir systems.

Vattic
2011-12-31, 04:35 PM
Seriously, that's kind of a pet peeve if I ever at all stop to think about it at all. It's a perverted twisting of the whole concept behind nuns (who are distinct from "priestesses" or other similar roles), and basically is a horrible slap in the face to the concept. The people who "rule 34" nuns should be ashamed of themselves. :smallmad:
really? i'm quite grateful for it, myself. if you can't take people poking a bit of fun at you (talking about nuns and religious types here, not you specifically) then you may as well sequester yourself in some desert hideaway where you will never have to interact with any other people for the rest of your life.

On topic: deliberate falsehoods that lead to positive outcomes.

KnightDisciple
2011-12-31, 05:28 PM
really? i'm quite grateful for it, myself. if you can't take people poking a bit of fun at you (talking about nuns and religious types here, not you specifically) then you may as well sequester yourself in some desert hideaway where you will never have to interact with any other people for the rest of your life.
This isn't about "poking fun at nuns".

This is about taking a group of people who have set themselves apart, have purposefully committed themselves to chastity for a higher calling, and making them objects of base, perverse lusts and desires. Turning a group who willingly chooses chastity and religious contemplation, and making them a target of fetishs and lusts seems wrong on several levels. Very disrespectful.

I realize it'll still happen. That doesn't mean I have to think it's okay.

Dr.Epic
2011-12-31, 05:30 PM
The internet. All of it.

How would they be against a world wide means of communication and information sharing?

legomaster00156
2011-12-31, 05:34 PM
Teir systems.
I don't know what they'll think of teir systems, but yeah, they'd be rather upset at being T5 on the tier system. Really, I'm upset about that. Why did you have to make paragons of truth and justice so weak, WotC? :smallmad:

Vitruviansquid
2011-12-31, 05:58 PM
How would they be against a world wide means of communication and information sharing?

"You mean you can find anything you want on this 'inter-net?' And NOBODY regulates it?! What if someone puts dangerous or immoral information on there? BLACK MAGIC! KNAAAAAAAAAVES!" :smallfurious:

edit: "Downloading music is an abomination. I mean, you wouldn't download a morningstar, would you?"

VanBuren
2011-12-31, 06:28 PM
"You mean you can find anything you want on this 'inter-net?' And NOBODY regulates it?! What if someone puts dangerous or immoral information on there? BLACK MAGIC! KNAAAAAAAAAVES!" :smallfurious:

edit: "Downloading music is an abomination. I mean, you wouldn't download a morningstar, would you?"

You wouldn't steal a horse,
you wouldn't steal a knapsack,
you wouldn't steal an Orb of Scrying,
you wouldn't steal a tome.

Scribing pirated spells is stealing,
stealing is against the law,
PIRACY IT'S A CRIME

Vitruviansquid
2011-12-31, 06:43 PM
Wizard: "Actually, you're not really stealing the spells you pirate. If you pirate Melf's Acid Arrow, it's not like Melf can't then cast his own Acid Arrow. Melf's Acid Arrow is still there, only it's duplicated. So actually, it's like a net gain for everybody."

Rogue: "Man, if I could download a knapsack, I totally would." :smallamused:

SowZ
2011-12-31, 06:57 PM
Yes yes they do. They are the divine power source in 4e and in 3x divine spells come from worship(Or reverence/worship of nature, in which case your a druid or ranger).

Well, there is a subset of Paladins that doesn't worship a god but instead worships Ayn Rand...

Zale
2011-12-31, 07:17 PM
"You mean you can find anything you want on this 'inter-net?' And NOBODY regulates it?! What if someone puts dangerous or immoral information on there? BLACK MAGIC! KNAAAAAAAAAVES!" :smallfurious:

edit: "Downloading music is an abomination. I mean, you wouldn't download a morningstar, would you?"

You know, now I'm picturing a Paladin's expression after seeing... certain illicit materials.

:smallconfused: :smalleek: :smallannoyed: :smallmad: :smallfurious:

Oh that would be funny. You'd need a new computer after he smote the first one, though.

And I'm also imagining a Paladin running around trying to find this "Internet" monstrosity so It may be smote in the name of LAW, HONOR and JUSTIIIIIICCE!

Mike_G
2011-12-31, 07:50 PM
This isn't about "poking fun at nuns".

This is about taking a group of people who have set themselves apart, have purposefully committed themselves to chastity for a higher calling, and making them objects of base, perverse lusts and desires. Turning a group who willingly chooses chastity and religious contemplation, and making them a target of fetishs and lusts seems wrong on several levels. Very disrespectful.

I realize it'll still happen. That doesn't mean I have to think it's okay.

Screw nuns.

I went to Catholic school and was verbally abused when I was freaking six years old by some sexless crone in a black dress.

Sister Rosemary, may she rot in hell, actually told a class of first graders that if we didn't quiet down there "would be dead bodies strewn all over this room."

Those of us who survived refer to St Joe's as "The Atheist Factory"

So, the only reason I object to rule 34ing the whole bunch of them is that there is nothing desirable about a nun.

Draconi Redfir
2011-12-31, 07:58 PM
I don't know what they'll think of teir systems, but yeah, they'd be rather upset at being T5 on the tier system. Really, I'm upset about that. Why did you have to make paragons of truth and justice so weak, WotC? :smallmad:

I was more thinking about the fact that it promotes discriminaition and innequality, but sure that works too i guess:smallsigh:


And I'm also imagining a Paladin running around trying to find this "Internet" monstrosity so It may be smote in the name of LAW, HONOR and JUSTIIIIIICCE!

MAIL!

SowZ
2011-12-31, 07:59 PM
Screw nuns.

I went to Catholic school and was verbally abused when I was freaking six years old by some sexless crone in a black dress.

Sister Rosemary, may she rot in hell, actually told a class of first graders that if we didn't quiet down there "would be dead bodies strewn all over this room."

Those of us who survived refer to St Joe's as "The Atheist Factory"

So, the only reason I object to rule 34ing the whole bunch of them is that there is nothing desirable about a nun.

Yeah, I understand how such a thing can happen. But isn't insulting a group of people and actively disliking them because of your experiences with them the same type of justification many racist people use? At the end of the day, what makes prejudice against a religion or group within a religion that isn't wrong inherently, (belittling children is certainly not inherent to being a nun,) much different than prejudice against an ethnic group?

VanBuren
2011-12-31, 08:08 PM
Wizard: "Actually, you're not really stealing the spells you pirate. If you pirate Melf's Acid Arrow, it's not like Melf can't then cast his own Acid Arrow. Melf's Acid Arrow is still there, only it's duplicated. So actually, it's like a net gain for everybody."

Rogue: "Man, if I could download a knapsack, I totally would." :smallamused:

Sorcerer: "Listen, Brosiris. It's all about intellectual property. Why shouldn't I profit off of the spells I create?"

Artificer: "Exactly. If I don't profit off of my labor, hell, if I can't even break even, then there's no motivation for me to create."

VoP Monk: "I don't believe in material goods. Learn from my mistakes.

Silva Stormrage
2011-12-31, 08:10 PM
Screw nuns.

I went to Catholic school and was verbally abused when I was freaking six years old by some sexless crone in a black dress.

Sister Rosemary, may she rot in hell, actually told a class of first graders that if we didn't quiet down there "would be dead bodies strewn all over this room."

Those of us who survived refer to St Joe's as "The Atheist Factory"

So, the only reason I object to rule 34ing the whole bunch of them is that there is nothing desirable about a nun.

Not sure how many other Catholic schools are like that. I personally went to a catholic high school and they really were not that bad. It still was pretty bad and my nickname was "Infidel" but I don't think its right to say ALL nuns do that.

And on topic. In games where people automatically assume necromancy and undead are evil and deserve to be purged by fire.

Mike_G
2011-12-31, 08:11 PM
Yeah, I understand how such a thing can happen. But isn't insulting a group of people and actively disliking them because of your experiences with them the same type of justification many racist people use? At the end of the day, what makes prejudice against a religion or group within a religion that isn't wrong inherently, (belittling children is certainly not inherent to being a nun,) much different than prejudice against an ethnic group?

I'm just not about to listen to somebody eulogizing them and saying they should be above mockery. I was a Marine and I laugh at marine jokes. (What do Marines call helicopters? <point up and grunt>)

Reading that nun boosting post was like telling the Sioux that not all cavalrymen were bad and we shouldn't mock men who answer that calling.

Good and bad individuals in any group, sure. But if you praise an entire group, many of whom were pretty awful to me, and try to place them above any criticism, I'm not going to feel bad slinging mud at that group.

SowZ
2011-12-31, 08:17 PM
I'm just not about to listen to somebody eulogizing them and saying they should be above mockery. I was a Marine and I laugh at marine jokes. (What do Marines call helicopters? <point up and grunt>)

Reading that nun boosting post was like telling the Sioux that not all cavalrymen were bad and we shouldn't mock men who answer that calling.

I'm not saying that jibing at nuns is terrible. I'm not saying that nuns are great or bad. I have no personal connection to nuns or catholics. That wasn't my point. My point was about prejudice. I understand how someone could resent nuns. I understand how Sioux could resent white people or white military. That doesn't mean it isn't prejudice. I just think everyone would be better off without any of that kind of bias no matter how justified it seems or who it is against. If someone stands for something evil, I can be cool with criticizing it. If someone stands for something and does evil, well, I don't want to criticize the group for it.

Am I being clear? I'm not trying to be patronizing. I just get kind of like this about hatred in general.

VanBuren
2011-12-31, 08:33 PM
I'm not saying that jibing at nuns is terrible. I'm not saying that nuns are great or bad. I have no personal connection to nuns or catholics. That wasn't my point. My point was about prejudice. I understand how someone could resent nuns. I understand how Sioux could resent white people or white military. That doesn't mean it isn't prejudice. I just think everyone would be better off without any of that kind of bias no matter how justified it seems or who it is against. If someone stands for something evil, I can be cool with criticizing it. If someone stands for something and does evil, well, I don't want to criticize the group for it.

Am I being clear? I'm not trying to be patronizing. I just get kind of like this about hatred in general.

Although I think comparing true prejudice to Rule 34 is a slight overreaction.

Leon
2011-12-31, 08:44 PM
I don't know what they'll think of teir systems, but yeah, they'd be rather upset at being T5 on the tier system. Really, I'm upset about that. Why did you have to make paragons of truth and justice so weak, WotC? :smallmad:

WotC Didn't, the people who decided what they wanted in a list of ranking did.

Coidzor
2011-12-31, 08:48 PM
How would they be against a world wide means of communication and information sharing?

The Internet is For Porn. Also, that song. And Schadenfreude.

Heck, they'd probably be annoyed by Broadway and Hollywood and the Theatre in general.

Draconi Redfir
2011-12-31, 08:48 PM
WotC Didn't, the people who decided what they wanted in a list of ranking did.

Please excuse me while i hug you.

SowZ
2011-12-31, 10:22 PM
Although I think comparing true prejudice to Rule 34 is a slight overreaction.

Hmm? No, I'm talking about the screw nuns attitude. Like I said, I can understand how someone can be resentful. I'm just saying I don't personally like it.

Vitruviansquid
2011-12-31, 11:01 PM
Sorcerer: "Listen, Brosiris. It's all about intellectual property. Why shouldn't I profit off of the spells I create?"

Artificer: "Exactly. If I don't profit off of my labor, hell, if I can't even break even, then there's no motivation for me to create."

VoP Monk: "I don't believe in material goods. Learn from my mistakes.

I don't actually like pirates or know what follows in their argument... so you win this round. >_>

Salbazier
2012-01-01, 01:31 AM
I'm just not about to listen to somebody eulogizing them and saying they should be above mockery. I was a Marine and I laugh at marine jokes. (What do Marines call helicopters? <point up and grunt>)

Reading that nun boosting post was like telling the Sioux that not all cavalrymen were bad and we shouldn't mock men who answer that calling.

Good and bad individuals in any group, sure. But if you praise an entire group, many of whom were pretty awful to me, and try to place them above any criticism, I'm not going to feel bad slinging mud at that group.

Not that I care much about the whole deal, but I think what KnightDisciple means, rule 34 with nuns is already beyond joke. Its like, uh, I dunno, Maybe stomping national flag or insulting someone's mother or calling somene's faith satanic?

Roxxy
2012-01-01, 01:48 AM
Yes yes they do. They are the divine power source in 4e and in 3x divine spells come from worship(Or reverence/worship of nature, in which case your a druid or ranger).I allow nature paladins in my campaigns.

NikitaDarkstar
2012-01-01, 02:28 AM
Would a Paladin ever meet an atheist? Somewhat hard to say you don't belive in a being people have proof of. Rather like people saying they don't belive in the existance of Jay Leno or Helen Mirren (not counting the players who try).

THought this was about what paladins would hate about modern society/our world. Either way there's stupid people all around, such as Holocaust deniers, we have proof it happened, yet there are people who refuse to believe it. (By the way, there's no way Jay Leno is real, just look at that chin it's obviously photoshopped!!! :p )

KnightDisciple
2012-01-01, 02:53 AM
*Looks at Mike_G's posts*

Part of me wants to try typing up some sort of long-winded response.

I'm going to ignore that part of me.

In the interest of not clogging this thread up with a discussion that wouldn't be productive or civil, I'm going to drop the conversation and this thread.

Instead, I'll merely say this, to Mike and everyone else: Have a Happy and Blessed New Year! :smallsmile::smallbiggrin:

VanBuren
2012-01-01, 04:36 AM
I don't actually like pirates or know what follows in their argument... so you win this round. >_>

Eh, at that point someone usually pipes in about how intellectual property is bunk anyway and about how it somehow stifles creativity by existing, by which point we'd have to drop it anyway because any logical extension would cross into politics and violate the forum rules.

From my experience, anyway.

Dimers
2012-01-01, 05:33 AM
young kids running around without parental discipline
separation of church and state
hazing
profit motive and capitalist economics
noise rock
Facebook, especially the games
sports cars (social preening, dangerous due to high speeds, bad for environment due to high fuel expenditure)
littering
police officers who speed whenever they want


I guess paladins should be faceless conformist faith-driven socialists who drive hybrids. Wow ... that sounds way too much like my parents. :smallamused:

Draconi Redfir
2012-01-01, 11:19 AM
people kissing before marrage.

Cerlis
2012-01-01, 11:37 AM
jaywalkers

/thread.

Boci
2012-01-01, 01:02 PM
Teir systems.

Wouldn't the default paladins like the tier system, what with it being an attempt to make some order out of a chaotic gaming system?

Or did you just jump at the opportunity to remind us all how much you hated the fact that someone posted their opinion of how different classes could cope with a variety of challenges and it caught on?

navar100
2012-01-01, 02:05 PM
Those other classes don't have the same uptight stereotypes that paladins sometimes have. It's a lot like asking why the Fighter never gets made fun of for being Tier 1.

No, it's bigotry.

Geddoe
2012-01-01, 02:09 PM
people kissing before marrage.

Paladins of Sune would probably be fine with it. In fact most paladins would be fine with it as long as it is consensual. Even ones that have vows of chastity would understand that it is something that they chose to demonstrate their faith, not something for everybody.


WotC Didn't, the people who decided what they wanted in a list of ranking did.

No, WotC did, they just didn't realize it.

On topic:

Faith healers in this world who have no actual power to heal the sick or wounded(so, all of them except himself/herself).

Roxxy
2012-01-01, 02:44 PM
The Westboro Baptist Church. I would love to see a paladin react to them.

VanBuren
2012-01-01, 03:51 PM
No, it's bigotry.

Don't be silly. I love paladins. I love the fluff. The only reason I wouldn't play one is because the Crusader is essentially a better version of it mechanically. And as you may notice, not very many people are poking fun at a paladin's mechanics.

At the very least, calling this bigotry is rather insulting to those that face actual bigotry.

Coidzor
2012-01-01, 04:08 PM
No, it's bigotry.

See, you weaken your argument and position by frivolously likening a set of classifications of game mechanics with something that is actually harmful in the real world to a lot of people.

SowZ
2012-01-01, 04:10 PM
No, it's bigotry.

Bigotry against a fantasy archetype doesn't seem like much of a problem to me.

Zale
2012-01-01, 05:01 PM
The Westboro Baptist Church. I would love to see a paladin react to them.

I want that on video.

The inevitable carnage would be so much fun to watch again and again.

Roxxy
2012-01-01, 05:15 PM
I want that on video.

I agree. I'm not sure whether there would be carnage, but it would be fun to watch whatever happened.

Turgon9357
2012-01-01, 07:45 PM
Oh boy, this seems to be spinning out of control. :smallannoyed:

While conversations about discrimination and generalizing are important and must be had, this seems like a bizarre place to have them.

The original intent of this thread is simply to offer small things that happen in life that don't bother most people but may get under the skin of the stereotypical (and thus, not entirely accurate) paladin. Allow me to try to steer this back on track.

Picking up something at the grocery store, later deciding you don't want it, and putting it down in the wrong spot.

Traab
2012-01-01, 07:57 PM
Hearing a womans husband insist, "Of course you dont look fat in that!" when she does.

McStabbington
2012-01-01, 08:14 PM
If I had to guess, I would say that they would be primarily miffed by the default sense of cynicism about the law and its capacity of good. Paladins are basically the living embodiments of the idea that the law should be used to aid the weak especially and the common good generally. By contrast, most modern political analysts treat politics as the WWF for people with political science degrees. If you listen to the Sunday talk shows, the emphasis is not on what Policy X does, and whether that is good or bad, but whether Policy X can be sold, and whether that has any impact on the ongoing political game between the parties. A paladin would see the Westboro Baptist church as a den of iniquity. A paladin would see the political conversation of Meet the Press as anathema to his very concept of law and justice.

Set
2012-01-01, 08:45 PM
I could see a Paladin disliking a lot of modern TV shows about cops and lawyers and whatnot, where the lesson of the show ends up being that only the authorities who break the rules (intimidate witnesses, lie to get confessions, punch someone after they were already down for 'resisting arrest') 'get the job done' while those who hold themselves to a higher law and order sort of moral code are dismissed as weak or inefficient or toothless.

Pretty much any movie where the main character 'goes off the reservation' and ends up saving the day, while the people who actually played by the rules and had the best intentions and weren't willing to sacrifice their principles or morals or abandon their oaths stood around looking like useless prats, would probably annoy them.

The triumph of 'whatever gets the job done' pragmatism and the utter contempt with which our society holds idealism or honesty or temperance, prevalent in a society where a President can say, without irony, 'It's not illegal when I do it.' would pretty much fly in the face of what it means to be a Paladin, and make a mockery of their life-choice to hold themselves to a higher standard.

Mark Hall
2012-01-01, 09:17 PM
The Mod Wonder: Thread Closed for real world religion, politics, etc. Do not restart.