After chameleon 10

[Gnaeus]

Party ranges from high tier 4 to low tier 2. It consists of:
Rogue 4/Swashbuckler 9/Swordsage 1 (Daring outlaw, swashbuckler improved by houserules, spiked chain tripper)
Scout 4/Ranger 8/Cleric 1 (Swift hunter with travel devotion)
DFAdept 14
Spirit Shaman 5/Cleric 1/Moonspeaker 7 (with DMM persist)

And the character in question, currently Swordsage 4/Cloistered Cleric 1/Chameleon 9. Actual rebuild is not going to happen, although houserules allow a very generous retraining mechanic (We can retrain 1 feat per level, and when we level up we can retrain the previous highest level at the same time).

The chameleon is CN (tends evil). He is a high ranking member of the temple to the campaign's CE god. In play, most days he uses his arcane spells for self and party-buffing in the morning (when he uses his ability boost on INT), then shift to divine focus for the rest of the day, for utility and combat, while spending some time in melee (Greater Mirror Image + really high AC + superior resistance + full line of Heart of and Primal spells make him a very good tank, although his melee damage doesn't usually bear up).

I never actually thought we would be going above L 15, so I haven't really been planning for it. My default plan would be either 1 level crusader and 4 more swordsage, or just 5 more swordsage, for 7th level maneuvers. But I can't help thinking I could do better.

With only the 1 level of cleric, I don't qualify for most casting entry PRCs, and PRCs that advance another class's casting won't help him much. Any 3 feats of my choice (via retraining + level 15 feat) will help me qualify for PRCs, and good Int + chameleon levels and able learner probably mean that ranks aren't a problem either. I would be happy with things that help his melee damage or that help casting. Any evil transformational class would be in character, but with only 1 casting level I'm not sure I qualify for any.

Any suggestions? No dragon mag content, but I think we have all printed books. If something is very close to fitting, DM has allowed small revisions in classes (like modifying moonspeaker to the catfolk spirit shaman).

[Flickerdart]

More Swordsage is probably going to be the better idea. 7th level maneuvers are better than 2nd level maneuvers when it comes to contributing damage.

[A_S]

Not necessarily the greatest class, but Bloodclaw Master (ToB PrC) seems like it would fit with your fluff quite well, and should be easy for you to qualify for (as long as you can get the Tiger Claw maneuvers). It advances maneuvers and gives you a natural attack that you can use as an off-hand weapon (which after a couple levels doesn't even take the off-hand penalties), plus a rend ability for bonus damage at 5th level. Maybe a good choice?

[dextercorvia]

Dipping a spontaneous arcane class like Duskblade or Beguiler followed by 4 levels of Dragon Disciple will get you 3 extra 6th level spell slots for both your arcane and divine casting, +4 Str, +2 Natural Armor, 2 Claws and a Bite (use as secondary weapons to up your full attack damage output). You also get a weak breath weapon, but that probably isn't worth mentioning. Trade one of your feats for Multiattack at the appropriate level.

You can do it without the dip, if you can trade a feat for Magical Training (PGtF). In that case, I would grab an extra level of Swordsage to cap it all off.

[FMArthur]

I think more swordsage would be best. Right now you've only got second level maneuvers, and there are so many maneuvers between 3rd and 7th level that you would gain access to by continuing your swordsage progression. Right away you'd get to start choosing up to 5th level maneuvers.

Chameleon itself doesn't really lead anywhere, as you've noticed, so your only real choices are to start up another short class that functions completely independently (rare, especially for just 5 levels) or to go somewhere that your swordsage levels could take you. But even if your DM waived the deity requirement on Ruby Knight Vindicator, it wouldn't be productive; you'd just get fewer of those awesome new high-level maneuvers in exchange for additional low-level cleric casting that you can already do. Bloodclaw Master doesn't give you much you could not just do better with the more plentiful high-level maneuvers, spells or Chameleon's own Rage ability. Shadow Sun Ninja is similarly underwhelming relative to your current abilities compared to the greater maneuver progression of just more swordsage.

Your original idea seems to be the best. Other than swordsage levels, a crusader dip is nice for the auto-refreshing maneuvers on top of your own. Maybe it looks less impressive on your build summary than it will be, but it really is going to be a strong power spike. You'll be a melee monster with those lategame martial adept levels.

[Feralventas]

If you've already got a few levels of Swordsage already, and if Chameleon's spellcasting options suffice for the prerequisites, Jade Pheonix Mage would allow for the higher level maneuvers while also advancing your 'casting and giving you some decent Gish class features.

[sreservoir]

arcane 3/spellthief 1 is fun with chameleon in arcane focus.

[Talionis]

If you've already got a few levels of Swordsage already, and if Chameleon's spellcasting options suffice for the prerequisites, Jade Pheonix Mage would allow for the higher level maneuvers while also advancing your 'casting and giving you some decent Gish class features.

I've been told you can't advance Chameleon casting past the tenth level of Chameleon with other classes, not even Uncanny Trickster can if you already have 10 levels of Chameleon you can't further prgress it.

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arcane 3/spellthief 1 is fun with chameleon in arcane focus. -- I'm not sure what about this is so fun?

[Dusk Eclipse]

CL shenanigans would be my bet.

[Varil]

Could you at least use your Chameleon spell-casting to qualify for PRCs? Can you advance your caster level(but not spells/day or spell level)?

You could look into "flavorful but technically weak" PRCs...or at least ones which aren't usually optimal because of lost caster levels. Void Disciple(Complete Divine), for instance, would give you ridiculous scrying capabilities but usually isn't so great for full casters because it loses caster levels.

Even something like Mindbender, with it's smattering of weak spell-like charm abilities could be interesting. Try and find something that suits your character from a roleplaying perspective, or that improves skills your value in your character. Argent Savant might improve your buffs, since that seems to be a major role for you.

Hmm...a bard dip might let you qualify for Sublime Chord. 4 levels of that would get you more level 6 magic.

You could go really off the wall and get some Incarnum levels. Even just 2-3 levels of Incarnate would get you a big assortment of soulmelds to use, while 2 levels of Totemist would get you some potential natural weapons to use.

[sreservoir]

I've been told you can't advance Chameleon casting past the tenth level of Chameleon with other classes, not even Uncanny Trickster can if you already have 10 levels of Chameleon you can't further prgress it.

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arcane 3/spellthief 1 is fun with chameleon in arcane focus. -- I'm not sure what about this is so fun?

you can't use most of its features to qualify, progressing is possible. uncanny trickster and legacy champion almost certainly can; the trouble is finding a progression.

arcane/spellthief with master spellthief will let you stack for CL, which can boost the "normal" CL to mediocre and chameleon CL to obscene. unfortunately, you don't have high-level enough spells to, say. holy f-word, but I'm sure you can see the value of a caster level in at least the low 30s.

[dextercorvia]

You can advance CL past 10th(or 20th depending on how you call it), but not spellcasting (that has to wait for epic).

I used to be the biggest proponent of Master Spellthief for Chameleon, but a very popular (and probably correct) reading of the feat actually nerfs the Chameleon's 2xlevel casting by replacing it with the sum of arcane spellcasting levels and spellthief levels. I would put that one down as a big check with your DM (if you had the 2nd level arcane spells to even worry about qualifying).

[Gnaeus]

Could you at least use your Chameleon spell-casting to qualify for PRCs?
RAW, no. RAI at the table, he has let me use chameleon casting to qualify for feats with the floating feat, but not for anything permanent.



Can you advance your caster level(but not spells/day or spell level)?

Possibly.



Hmm...a bard dip might let you qualify for Sublime Chord. 4 levels of that would get you more level 6 magic.

Nope. SC requires 3rd level arcane spells. Since Chameleon doesn't qualify, all I have is 1st level divine casting.


You could go really off the wall and get some Incarnum levels. Even just 2-3 levels of Incarnate would get you a big assortment of soulmelds to use, while 2 levels of Totemist would get you some potential natural weapons to use.

We have the book but I have very very little experience with it. Would that be worth it over ToB levels?

[Varil]

Depends on what you're shooting for. Incarnate seems better as a "skill support" class, but there are some interesting side powers you can get out of a few of their soulmelds. Totemist can give you natural weapons, and seem better focused for dealing damage, but also have a number of interesting powers available.

That said, I'd just read over a few Soulmelds and see if anything sounds worthwhile to you. Just remember that chakra binds take up an equipment slot(except the Totem chakra), but soulmelds themselves just can't overlap with themselves. You know your character better than me, so I'm just bouncing ideas around. I suggested Incarnum because it's usually pretty handy in a build if you don't have any better ideas.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Depends on what you're shooting for. Incarnate seems better as a "skill support" class, but there are some interesting side powers you can get out of a few of their soulmelds. Totemist can give you natural weapons, and seem better focused for dealing damage, but also have a number of interesting powers available.

That said, I'd just read over a few Soulmelds and see if anything sounds worthwhile to you. Just remember that chakra binds take up an equipment slot(except the Totem chakra), but soulmelds themselves just can't overlap with themselves. You know your character better than me, so I'm just bouncing ideas around. I suggested Incarnum because it's usually pretty handy in a build if you don't have any better ideas.

Among other things, Blink Shirt bound to Totem chakra gives you a move-action DimDoor, Girallon Arms to totem nets you four claw attacks, and Great Raptor Mask nets you Evasion.

Best of all, essentia caps are based on character level, not class level, so if you sink your floating feats into things like Extra Essentia, you can pretty much cap something out.

[Grendyll]

Looking at your current party, what role are you typically trying to fill? It seems you have 2 primary damage dealing combatants, a Daring Outlaw (tripper??) and Swift Hunter (melee or ranged?). The DFA is probably limited in its arcane support role, so it seems like maintaining your arcane casting might be a good idea (assuming spirit shaman can cover the divine stuff, unless he is trying to melee as well with persistent buffs?). If you take more TOB class levels, will you be stepping on the toes of the other party members by trying to be a melee combatant / damage dealer as well (maybe this is OK if your campaign has a lot of combats I guess)?