How much XP for this encounter?

[Minwaabi]

So we had an odd session last night in a solo campaign. The PC (a level 3) spots some bandits and moves away from the rest of the party (All NPC's) to investigate. He attacks the leader and quickly starts to lose. The rest of the party don't know about the battle and don't get involved. He runs and escapes with his life (barely). The bandits were 3 2nd levels and 2 1st levels. (All humans with PC levels). He 'won' the encounter by surviving. How much XP would you give?

[Flickerdart]

He didn't win - winning is defined as overcoming a challenge, and he got his butt kicked. Give him 1-200XP for effort.

[missmvicious]

As far as I know, RAW doesn't cover XP rewards for running from a battle.

However, some DMs take a learn-from-your-mistakes approach to XP and chalk it up to role-playing. At that point, it's really up to you, the DM. But to give it a mathematical equation try taking the appropriate XP:CR reward and dividing it by... say... 2. 1/2 XP for living-and-learning. After all, you learned half of what you needed to learn to beat those bandits. Don't charge in without backup. I'm sure the encounter would've been entirely different if he'd gotten the help of his DMPCs.

And, IRL, experience can come from mistakes; in fact, it usually does. But don't take my word for it:

"Good judgment comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgment." -Rita Mae Brown

"Experience is the name everyone gives to his mistakes." Oscar Wilde

"A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way." - Mark Twain

If it turns out that 1/2 XP is leveling him up to quickly, try 1/4 XP and see where that goes.

[Doug Lampert]

So we had an odd session last night in a solo campaign. The PC (a level 3) spots some bandits and moves away from the rest of the party (All NPC's) to investigate. He attacks the leader and quickly starts to lose. The rest of the party don't know about the battle and don't get involved. He runs and escapes with his life (barely). The bandits were 3 2nd levels and 2 1st levels. (All humans with PC levels). He 'won' the encounter by surviving. How much XP would you give?

He deliberately attacked alone, his goal wasn't to escape, it was to win the fight. He failed at his goal. No XP.

Seriously, even if you're using "learn from your mistakes" the correct lesson is "bring your friends" and that's roleplaying, not a combat technique.

[killem2]

I would have granted xp, if HE got jumped, but with him being the instigator, I can't see granting xp for that one.

[ericgrau]

He was in a fight, I'd at least give partial. 1/4 maybe? Unless you rule that those who flee don't get anything or only get xp for those they do defeat, in which case he doesn't either.

[Helldog]

None. He didn't win. He didn't overcome the challenge in any way. He took the challenge (attacked) and then scraped the idea (ran). No XP for that.

[CTrees]

I agree-if he was ambushed and ran, I'd grant half. He attacked and ran? He gets no xp. His reward is not having to roll a new character.

[missmvicious]

I agree-if he was ambushed and ran, I'd grant half. He attacked and ran? He gets no xp. His reward is not having to roll a new character.

But isn't that a subtle way for a DM of imposing morality on a PC? And it also punishes a player for exploring the world and trying to take on challenges and plot hooks.

Of course, it was unwise to attack the bandits without getting some help and setting up a plan. In fact, attacking may not have been a good option at all. We don't know the whole story there. But he tried something stupid, failed at it, and had the good sense to realize the error in judgment and turn tail and run instead of meta-gaming and saying, "I'm not getting XP if I run, so I might as well stay and fight it out. If I die, I'll just roll up another character."

That's role-playing, and I think it deserves RPXP. How much RPXP he'd get would vary from DM to DM, but it's not a bad idea to drop a token to say, "Thank you for not meta-gaming. No GP for you, but here's an XP tip and next time, think before you act."

[MukkTB]

Our group house rules that a draw is CR-3 for XP and fleeing is CR-5. But by RAW the guy would get nothing for fighting because he didn't win and an unspecified amount of RP experience from the DM if the DM felt he had accomplished something.

My personal feeling is that even failure can be a learning experience as long as you don't die, so a little XP is in order.

[Palanan]

I'd give him 50 XP for having the brass to make the attempt single-handed. The "running for his life" part has its own educational value. :smalltongue:

[Minwaabi]

Thanks everybody. I'll probably give him 1/3 XP because he achieved part of his objective: Find out who those guys are spying on the caravan he's guarding. However, since the caravan is now even more vulnerable than before (it just lost its highest level guard and still doesn't know its under threat). He's going to loose the rest of the XP he could have earned.

The really funny part is he has been trying to find a thieves guild or similar for a while now and realized "Hey wait a second, I'd like to join these guys." My response: yeah, but you just shot the leader in the back. Roll for initiative.

[Doug Lampert]

But isn't that a subtle way for a DM of imposing morality on a PC? And it also punishes a player for exploring the world and trying to take on challenges and plot hooks.

No it doesn't. It has NOTHING to do with the morality of the action. Nor does it punish the player in any way.

If he'd walked away he'd have explored the world, if he'd gotten help he'd have taken on the challenge. You get XP for overcoming obstacles.

If THEY jump YOU, then they are an obstacle to your continued survival. By running away you've overcome that obstacle. You get XP. THAT'S HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS.

If YOU jump THEM, then your survival accomplishes nothing you couldn't have managed by walking away without a fight. So the XP for accomplishing objectives CAN NOT, by the RAW, exceed those you'd have gotten by walking away. Because you'd have accomplished all the same objectives and overcome all the same obstacles by walking away.

You get XP for overcoming obstacles and accomplishing objectives. Not for fighting. Not for killing things. Since he did not overcome any obstacles in the fight that he wouldn't have for walking away he can't gain XP beyond what he'd have gotten for walking away, that simple.

If the GM would have rewarded gathering intel or exploring with XP if he DIDN'T attack then he may get some or all of the same XP for attacking, but you don't get XP for losing in D&D land.

[Jeraa]

The 3.5 DMG says this about experience (page 36):


Experience points are a measure of accomplishment. They represent training and learning by doing, and they illustrate the fact that, in fantasy, the more experienced a character is, the more power he or she possesses. Experience points allow a character to gain levels. Gaining levels heightens the fun and excitement.

The character did accomplish something, according to the OPs 2nd post.

I'll probably give him 1/3 XP because he achieved part of his objective: Find out who those guys are spying on the caravan he's guarding.

The character also did learn something important - what not to do. That is just as valuable to know as what to do in a situation. Is the character more experienced after the encounter? Yes. He still survived, and now knows not to attack a group while alone.

The character should get some XP. Not as much as he would of gotten had he killed the targets, but still something.

I use something from d20 BESM to determine failed encounter XP:

Characters can learn something even when they fail - what not to do. When characters fail to overcome conflict, GMs should provide experience equal to 10% of the base award for a minor conflict, 20% of the base award for a moderate conflict, or 30% for a superior conflict (round down).

Minor conflict being a lower CR then the average party level, and a major conflict being a CR higher then the average party level.

[Reltzik]

I'll mostly agree with everyone else. He didn't win and thus earns no XP. Consolation prize at your discretion.

If the purpose of the encounter was to defend the caravan, and the bandits were so flustered by the hit-and-run tactics that they fail to attack, that's a win.

That's not the case here, though.