Would you draw from the Deck of Many Things? [Archive]

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Marnath

2011-12-31, 11:30 PM

SowZ

2011-12-31, 11:32 PM

I apologize if this has been done already, I didn't see a thread like this. So like the title says, would you personally draw from the deck (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/dmt/dmt.htm)? If so, how many cards will you risk? Assume that everyone is level 1 in an NPC class, if that matters.

I drew 2 and got knight both times.

In game, I once had a character draw every card from the deck of many things. My characters will draw them all the time. IRL? Yeah, no way.

sonofzeal

2011-12-31, 11:33 PM

Best solution to the Deck is via a charm/compulsion/bribe. If someone else draws a dozen cards, chances are they'll end up dead or worse and there'll be a fat pile of loot afterwards for you to collect.

killem2

2011-12-31, 11:39 PM

At those levels. No.

Mystic Muse

2011-12-31, 11:41 PM

6/11 chance to be screwed over.

9/22 chance to get something I could actually use, 4 of which could also screw me over somehow.

No, I would not draw from the deck of many things. The only cards that likely wouldn't screw me over are the vizier, the throne, the jester, the sun or the Star.

SowZ

2011-12-31, 11:56 PM

ericgrau

2011-12-31, 11:57 PM

<Counts good vs. bad, very good vs. very bad>. No. Especially not at low level.

<Draws from online deck anyway>. Void, my psyche is trapped in another plane and I'm comatose forever, and a wish cannot reverse it. See this is what I'm talking about.

SowZ

2012-01-01, 12:00 AM

With the right early draws, though, you can draw every card from the deck of many things and counteract the worst ones.

tiercel

2012-01-01, 12:07 AM

Rationally not worth drawing straight-up from the Deck. Sure, if your character is heedlessly reckless you can just hope to be lucky, but some of the bad draws can be truly catastrophic, and simply not worth the risk.

If you are going to game the system (via charmed/compelled/loyal followers/etc, or divination cheese), possibly -- but if your DM is allowing this, it's arguably sillier than introducing the Deck into his game in the first place.

The problem is that the Deck has the potential to wreck a campaign, either by eradicating/gimping one or more PCs... or unbalancing the campaign with a Monty Haul giveaway. (Or both.)

Ninjadeadbeard

2012-01-01, 12:09 AM

I might. Sounds like fun. Of course, there's always this. (http://spoonyexperiment.com/2011/10/20/counter-monkey-vegan-steve-and-the-djinni-of-jengai-fomogo/) The deck makes a wonderful appearance near the end. May be NSFW.

TuggyNE

2012-01-01, 12:14 AM

If you are going to game the system (via charmed/compelled/loyal followers/etc, or divination cheese), possibly -- but if your DM is allowing this, it's arguably sillier than introducing the Deck into his game in the first place.

I strongly agree with the view I've heard from several different sources: the only way to deal with the Deck of Campaign Ending is to cheat like crazy. But you're right, DMs that allow that are being very careless, so to answer the OP's question: no, I wouldn't draw from the Deck.

Of course, if it's a low-level sandbox or dungeon crawl, who cares if you end the campaign? Just start a new one. :smalltongue::smallyuk:

navar100

2012-01-01, 12:29 AM

Long ago during 2E when I was so naive, two different characters of mine had done so. I did alright with them.

Today I wouldn't. It's a trap. You gain nothing from it you couldn't get already, while the bad ones are so debilitating the good ones don't make up for it.

Know the answer to your next dilemma: Covered by Augury, Divination, Commune, it's the whole point of the adventure, the DM would have told you anyway at some future convenient time.

Gain a +6 bonus on Diplomacy checks plus a small keep: Covered by putting ranks into Diplomacy, Skill Focus, ability score increase and item enhancements to Charisma, Leadership feat.

Gain beneficial medium wondrous item and 50,000XP: Covered by treasure hoards from adventuring and adventuring itself. You get the XP slower, but you get it and more fun too.

Get a +2 inherent bonus to one ability score: Covered by ability score increase every 4 levels, animal buff spells, ability score enhancement items.

You are granted 1d4 wishes: Covered by DMs who use this item tend to screw you over with wishes anyway so avoid wishes like the plague; otherwise, you can get it as an arcane spell, ring of three wishes, a reward for a quest.

Gain the service of a 4th level fighter: Covered by Leadership feat, and a better cohort as well.

Gain a major magic item: Covered by treasure hoard in adventures.

Gain 10,000XP or two more draws from the deck: Covered by adventuring, playing the game.

Gain your choice of twenty-five pieces of jewelry or fifty gems: Covered by treasure hoards in adventures.

Avoid any situation you choose once: Covered by playing smart; otherwise, if you can't get out of a jam no matter what you do, the DM is being a donkey cavity. If you could get out of the jam and playing smart but happen to make a mistake anyway, sad and sucks, but that's the game. Sure, maybe then this card would be the thing to have.

Defeat the next monster you meet to gain one level: Covered by adventuring and playing the game.

The bad cards are total SCREW YOU GOODBYE!

JackRackham

2012-01-01, 12:38 AM

OOC, yes, I'd have to. IC, all but one of the characters I've played would, yes.

Rausdower

2012-01-01, 01:09 AM

"The gambler inside me burns! I shall draw three cards on that site."

Skull - Dread wraith appears

"Oh...well that kinda sucks."

Ruin - Lose all magical possessions.

"Well damn. It can't get any worse from here, surely."

Donjon - Imprisoned and lose all items and spells

"****!"

Alleran

2012-01-01, 01:14 AM

Gain a +6 bonus on Diplomacy checks plus a small keep: Covered by putting ranks into Diplomacy, Skill Focus, ability score increase and item enhancements to Charisma, Leadership feat.
This is probably the only one that you can't get elsewhere, since it is, as far as I can tell without going and checking my books, a permanent untyped bonus to Diplomacy (meaning it stacks with other benefits). It's not worth taking the chance, but it would be a nice little bump for a Diplomancer if they happened to get it.

Novawurmson

2012-01-01, 01:15 AM

Require reading (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/6/28/).

Varil

2012-01-01, 01:26 AM

Require reading (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/6/28/).

The point might stand...but I want to point out that Wish can't actually do that. Tycho's just taking advantage of Gabe's stupidity to make a point.

chadmeister

2012-01-01, 01:31 AM

Alleran

2012-01-01, 01:40 AM

Might have to come up with a reason for the character to do such a foolish thing.
They're player characters. Rich, violent hobos willing to commit genocide against NPCs (also known as "chunks of XP") to get ahead. I'm not really sure that a reason is necessary. :smalltongue:

Daftendirekt

2012-01-01, 01:45 AM

El Dorado

2012-01-01, 01:54 AM

Every character I've had has drawn Enmity. Funnest one was when my bard somehow pissed off a succubus. Talk about Hell Hath No Fury. . .

Illven

2012-01-01, 01:55 AM

Woot I got a wish! and now a Vizier

Marnath

2012-01-01, 02:21 AM

At 1st level? Sure, why not. Not much investment in the character yet. If he draws too poorly he can easily have a horrible accident and be replaced by a brand new character.

Might have to come up with a reason for the character to do such a foolish thing.

They're player characters. Rich, violent hobos willing to commit genocide against NPCs (also known as "chunks of XP") to get ahead. I'm not really sure that a reason is necessary. :smalltongue:

Apologies for the unclear wording, my intention was that if you are the PC, would you still risk it?

"The gambler inside me burns! I shall draw three cards on that site."

Skull - Dread wraith appears

"Oh...well that kinda sucks."

Ruin - Lose all magical possessions.

"Well damn. It can't get any worse from here, surely."

Donjon - Imprisoned and lose all items and spells

"****!"

Hahaha, this happened to me so many times as I toyed around with the program today. My thoughts exactly.:smallbiggrin:

Gullara

2012-01-01, 02:22 AM

I wasn't gonna post in this thread, but I feel the need to share just how lucky I am. :smalleek:

First draw: Vizier. One problem solved or question answered within a year. Very nice, could definitely be useful.
Second draw: Knight. A fighter appears and serves me for the rest of his life. Awesome!
Third draw: Sun. Random medium magical item. Very nice.
Forth draw: One to four wishes? Yes please!

Completely ridiculous is all I can say. Any sane person would stop immediately and revel in their spoils.

... *draws again* Fool. Uh oh, pay XP and I'm forced to draw again.
Donjon. Imprisoned for the rest of my life and lose everything.

...This deck would be the death of me.

nyjastul69

2012-01-01, 03:06 AM

I would at low levels but not at high levels. It's an artifact that may/may not benefit high level characters. A low level character has little to lose. Also, why would low level characters have access to an artifact? :smalleek: Why would a high level character risk a potential random nerf? :yuk:

That being said, it can be a fun game breaker. As a DM just plan for the worst.

Edited for some puncuation.

Medic!

2012-01-01, 03:17 AM

Took 5 (happy new years) cards, b/c yeahhhhh why not.

1. Sun - Roll for a medium wonderous item until you get something useful.

2. Euryale - -1 Penalty to all saving throws

3. Flames - Win the enmity of a random outsider!

4. Skull - Dread Wraith

5. Throne - Free castle, etc.

I've always been a greedy chaotic bastard, idk.

MukkTB

2012-01-01, 03:18 AM

Lvl 1? Sure I'd do it and roll a new character if something awful happened. Lvl 10 and I'd have to start again at lvl 1? No. Lvl 10 and I'd get a new character with appropriate WBL? Yes. Lvl 10 and I cared about the character's back story? No. It really depends on how awful getting a character blown away would be.

Mystic Muse

2012-01-01, 03:19 AM

Apologies for the unclear wording, my intention was that if you are the PC, would you still risk it?

This is what I assumed. Hence why I wouldn't take the risk.

Though, if I could, I'd really want a non-badly interpreted wish or two, or maybe the Fates card if it wouldn't be badly interpreted either for personal reasons. Fates if I'm being a little Selfish, wish if I'm being less selfish. I'd prefer the wish one, but I'd take the Fates in a Heartbeat. Again, assuming it wouldn't end in a way that'd screw me over.

Though, at this point, I think only two wishes would help me with what I'd need.

Real life sucks sometimes, you know?:smallfrown:

Lonely Tylenol

2012-01-01, 03:44 AM

Yes.

I drew 3:

Euryale: -1 to all saves.

Quarter moon: One wish! How fortuitous!

Knight: The service of a level 4 Fighter. Glee!

Alefiend

2012-01-01, 03:57 AM

Drew 6.

1. Rogue
2. Fool
3. Comet
4. Rogue
5. Donjon
6. Fool

I suspect this does not bode well for me.

nyjastul69

2012-01-01, 05:02 AM

I checked out the site. I got some adds and a bit from 'spoony'. He mentioned accurate and inaccurate things. I saw no on-line choice for a DoMt's? What did I miss?

Zale

2012-01-01, 08:19 AM

sonofzeal

2012-01-01, 08:30 AM

Statistically, what are the odds that the last card a player draws is Void? Pretty sure it's edging on 50/50 at least...

TuggyNE

2012-01-01, 08:44 AM

Statistically, what are the odds that the last card a player draws is Void? Pretty sure it's edging on 50/50 at least...

I'm pretty sure it would, except that you have to pre-declare how many cards you'll draw. That or the afore-mentioned Donjon I guess. (Skull is presumably a good runner-up.)

Zale

2012-01-01, 08:52 AM

Statistically, what are the odds that the last card a player draws is Void? Pretty sure it's edging on 50/50 at least...

Well, since it's unlikely for you to be able to draw more cards afterwords, I would say that it's almost 100% likely it will be the last card anyone draws.

CTrees

2012-01-01, 08:56 AM

IRL? No, I wouldn't draw.

On that site, I drew three, because why not? +2 to one stat, -1 to all saves, and a castle.

GnomeGninjas

2012-01-01, 12:00 PM

On that sight I got Vizier, Sun, and Throne:smallsmile: I think I would in real life but I probably wouldn't draw 3.

El Dorado

2012-01-01, 12:59 PM

1. Comet.

2. Euryale

I need to find someone to defeat so I can get my next level of commoner!

I guess the other one means I've a bigger chance of getting sick, am more accident prone, and more susceptible to mind control. Yay!

Hazzardevil

2012-01-01, 01:21 PM

Hazzardevil

2012-01-01, 01:26 PM

Supposing I had to draw it IRl, I would actually sort through the whole deck and try to find a way to cheat it. Supposing I fail I would probably just draw 2 random ones.
In an actual game?
I would only use it early on, but not at high levels. Mostly because I wouldn't want to go through the paperwork of making a new person unless I hated my current one.

Here are the first 5 cards I got.

Talons: When this card is drawn, every magic item owned or possessed by the character is instantly and irrevocably gone.

Knight (Why is it a level 4 fighter? Where does it say that?)

Idiot: This card causes the drain of 1d4+1 points of Intelligence immediately. The additional draw is optional.

Euryale: The medusalike visage of this card brings a curse that only the fates card or a deity can remove. The -1 penalty on all saving throws is otherwise permanent. This card is part of the reason why I would never want to use the deck.

Idiot

The problem with the deck is that it can make a character next to useless, what if you draw idiot and its various variations or other things. Your character can be killed in various ways or be stripped of everything they carry. So hell no would I ever use it in-game with a character I like.

Rankar

2012-01-01, 02:06 PM

Yes. Yes I would. *draws 3*

Key- Magic weapon? I am now the only person in our reality with a functioning lightsaber.

Jester- 10k xp? At level 1? I guess that means I've gotten all the school stuff done I need plus into a job I want.

Star- 2 to an attribute... I choose intelligence.

I don't know what you're all afraid of. :smallcool:

herrhauptmann

2012-01-01, 03:26 PM

((Once had a DM who, when I drew from the deck of many things, got the card that let me know the answer to my next dilemma. When I first drew it, I did not know what it did. Apparantly, that was my dilemma. Immediatly, I learned that the card I drew gave me the answer to my next dilemma. Then the cards effects were done.))

That's a bit of a jerk move the DM pulled.
It's like getting to make a wish and saying "I want the key that opens the doors to the kings treasury." So the DM blows up the castle with you in it.

In real life, no way, no how.
"Donjon, Euryale, Fool, Idiot, Ruin, SKull, Void" All would kill me, or cause significant problems.
Throne, sounds great getting a castle. But there's very little in the way of unclaimed land where I live.

For my characters, it depends.
If my character knows how bad it can be (and I'm attached to my character), then no.
If I'm not attached to my character, or I'm trying to play a gambler type, then yes, I'll take 3.

edit:
Moon (1 wish), Key (+3 holy greataxe), Gem.
And redraw the last 2 because I forgot that cards were replaced:
Throne, and Flames. Hmm, could've really used that Holy Greataxe.

Socratov

2012-01-01, 04:01 PM

drew 5:

5: Star, Jack of Diamonds.
4: Knight, Jack of Hearts.
3: Throne, King of Hearts.
2: Star, Jack of Diamonds.
1: Flames, Queen of Clubs.
so +4 to my key abilityscore, 1 hater, 1 bodyguard, a castle and +6 to diplomacy

Laniius

2012-01-01, 04:38 PM

Definitely. Usually because my characters would have no forewarning of what it was, and I try and play by in-character knowledge as often as I can. Also, I play by rule of drama rather than rule of keeping my character alive (at least, I try) and I never grow so attached to a single character that staying alive will outweigh an epic death that can be talked about for years to come.

Edit: I believe I misunderstood the question. Would I, personally, draw, IRL? Hmmm... probably not, assuming I knew what it was beforehand. If I came across it with no knowledge of it? Then probably. It's the whole zombie movie thing - in most zombie movies the people dealing with the zombocalypse have never watched zombie moves, so they make choices that we as the viewer know are poor choices. With this Deck of Many Things question, those of us who play D&D know it's a poor choice, but someone who had never seen or heard of it before would not know the dangers. I'm making this assumption based on the theory that you can't examine the entire deck; you have to draw or not draw.

Demons_eye

2012-01-01, 04:50 PM

Choose to pick three and got:

3: Gem, Two of Hearts.
2: Sun, King of Diamonds.
1: Moon, Queen of Diamonds.

I was going for more but remembered the void. Don't think I would like that.

shadow_archmagi

2012-01-01, 04:54 PM

Drew a single card. Throne: Become a true leader in the eyes of men, collect your very own castle. Radical.

I'd totally draw from the Deck of Many Things. After all, if it works out, hey, you're that much farther ahead! And if it doesn't, well, strength comes from adversity.

SowZ

2012-01-01, 05:05 PM

Changed my mind. Just drew 22 cards. The gamble payed off.

I'll explain.

1. Key- Doesn't matter. I'm about to lose the weapon.
2. Moon- Only one wish. Ugh. Oh well. I make a wish to prevent any effects from the next card of either Donjon or Void that I will draw.
3. Donjon- Wow am I lucky I got that wish just now!
4. Flames- I rolled randomly to get any of the outsiders in the SRD out of all 100+. A Howler hates me. Woopie-do-doo. It has 6 Int. Whatever. Good like finding me.
5. Jester- 10,000 XP! Woot. I am now fifth level.
6. Knight- Cool.
7. Comet- Another level next time I fight something!
8. Talons- Goodbye Greater Dwarven Throwing weapon or whatever. Nice knowing you.
9. Rogue- Crap. It's probably my knight, too.
10. Idiot- Well, I put my stat point into Int. anyway so I am four points dumber...
11. Fool- Back to level one again.
12. Sun- Epic! Up to level ten and I am going to balance out my Int. again best I can. Still three down... I get a... Necklace of Fireballs level 6. Fun! I get a level 10 bead ready right now... I'm putting them all in Psion, telepath if I can. I'll use that telepathy to see if my Knights are loyal.
13. Ruin- I own less than 2000 dollars. I really don't care much.
14. Comet- I interpret Comet as stacking.
15. Knight- At least I have one Knight I know is loyal.
16. Fates- Avoid any situation? In case I draw the Void...
17. Skull- Okay. If I had to take levels in expert or an NPC class or something, I use fates on this one. Otherwise, I take my knights and Plane Shift away and can use Fates to resist a Rogue.
18. Euryale- -1 to all saves? So far I am getting way more than +1 to what I had before so I don't care.
19. Rogue- I'll just telepath this against the people I'm close to so I can learn.
20. Knight- Yay! Again, at least one loyal knight.
21. Euryale- I still net a gain to saves.
22. Comet- Again, I believe it stacks. If not, whatever. If so, I kill a deer and get to level 13. Put the point in Int. Still down a couple points. With the ability to Plane Shift and read minds, I think I can eventually get something to bring me back to normal.

End result? At least one loyal Knight but up to three, a necklace of fireballs, at least 11 levels but up to 13. The bad? At least one person who hates me and up to two, (assuming Psion levels I should be able to undo that,) a 'Howler' is out to get me, -2 to all saves, (which is more than counteracted by my high levels,) and there might be a dread wraith out there somewhere which I should be able to fight against now if I plan well enough and use modern weaponry or the right powers. -2 Int, though. Overall? Yeah. Yeah it was nice.

herrhauptmann

2012-01-01, 07:46 PM

Techsmart

2012-01-01, 08:03 PM

Last time a party drew from the deck, it spawned a wraith... on the top of a mountain that ethereal creatures could not pass through... in the middle of the day. Free XP ensued as the party went all-out on the thing.

Draws 3 cards from the deck...
Star
Star
Flames

Well, I'm better at something (prolly smarter and faster)... and somebody hates my guts. Worth it.

Morithias

2012-01-01, 08:26 PM

In game, I once had a character draw every card from the deck of many things. My characters will draw them all the time. IRL? Yeah, no way.

How can you draw EVERY card? The cards get replaced every time you draw them with one exception.

SowZ

2012-01-01, 08:26 PM

I'm not so sure that a Wish can affect or counter the effects of an artifact.

Besides, still limited by the rules to not level up more than once from a single event, no matter how much XP you might have gained.
So your 10000 XP puts you just shy of level 3. Then killing a deer (might) give you 1 XP for level 3.

Always hated that rule. Most people I've played with don't use it and I ususally forget it, but to be fair I suppose we have to go by RAW. In that case, I would use the avoid any situation once rule to avoid the dread wraith. The limits of wish are sometimes spelled out but largely up to the DM, so I suppose that could change things depending. I also realize comet doesn't stack by actual rules despite how I would interpret the wording of the card. At any rate, going by the proper rules on XP my drawing was not worth it and rather silly.

How can you draw EVERY card? The cards get replaced every time you draw them with one exception.

By deciding to draw a ridiculous number of cards because the DM rules that I could use Wish to preemptively stop the effects of donjon and we had access to the Freedom spell/wishes to find where I am and being strong enough to kill a dread wraith and hoping that I draw wishes/fate faster than I draw the kill cards. After I drew every card once the DM ruled I was done with the deck. Anyway, that was kind of a silly character and I had made a pure fighter stone giant and had to make up for that somehow.

deuxhero

2012-01-01, 08:34 PM

No, simply for stats

Drawing anyways, I get medium magic item, draw again, lose all magic items, 1 question (Some variant of "is the next draw good for me?") and ? wishes (not sure what happens for crescent). I go find a lawyer and word a wish for money well.

SowZ

2012-01-01, 08:35 PM

smasher0404

2012-01-02, 12:18 AM

Okay i'm going to draw 10
Skull: OH NOEZ LETS DRAW AS I RUN AWAY
Vizier: Use this to get the answer to the prolem of the Dread Wraith
Key: Keyblade, yeah!
Talon: Darn it and i liked it too
Fool: darn
Gem: Riches yay
Ruin: Really, Really?
Key: YAy i get my keyblade back
Skull: Lets hope a keyblade is strong enough
Key: Duel Wielding Action, Lightsaber and Keyblade, yeah!

Razanir

2012-01-02, 05:12 PM

No I would not draw from it (at level 1 anyway), but will I for the sake of this post? OF COURSE

1. Key- SWEET! I'll take a Dancing Vorpal Longsword, please
2. Vizier- I'll save my free correct answer for later
3. Ruin- Well at least I have my Dancing Vorpal Longsword
Well I was only going to draw three, but I'll continue cause of my luck :elan:
4. Star- +2 INT, please
5. Fate- Seriously, the RNG must LOVE me
6. Knight- Sweet.
7. Comet- Sure hope I don't meet something more than CR 4
Against my better judgement, I shall continue drawing (watch as I draw the Void)
8. Moon... I'll stop drawing now. (of course, my in browser RNG gave my 4 wishes...)

NOTE: ZERO (0) rolls were faked. This post was sheer luck on my part

Cirrylius

2012-01-02, 05:20 PM

Hell. No.

The good cards are neat verging on awesome. But the bad cards are crippling to lethal.

CTrees

2012-01-02, 05:31 PM

Hell. No.

The good cards are neat verging on awesome. But the bad cards are crippling to lethal.

It was originally released in first edition. Was even a Gygax creation, I believe. Thus, things like a fourth level fighter being given out, and the TONS of hahahahaha you suck forever/you just die effects.

What I never really understood is why it wasn't updated. Yes, it's an old school favorite, but it's not really appropriate in 3rd ed. or later, as written, and people will ALWAYS complain about their nostalgic bugaboos being altered (for instance, I still miss THAC0, even though I'll grudgingly admit that positive AC is a hair easier to work out).

Dr.Epic

2012-01-02, 05:36 PM

Depends on the character I'm supposed to be roleplaying. If I'm just playing a straight up Munchkin, then yeah I would. I get something bad I just say my character wanders off and stops adventuring so I just roll up a new one.:smallwink::smalltongue:

Psyren

2012-01-02, 05:50 PM

If so, how many cards will you risk? Assume that everyone is level 1 in an NPC class, if that matters.

NPC class, you say? (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/augur)

Augury (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/augury.htm) is your best chance with the deck, and a first-level Augur can do it multiple times per day. So that would be my choice.

darksolitaire

2012-01-03, 12:23 PM

The Deck is bad. No way in hell I would ever draw a card from it. Ever.

...well, one propably won't hurt...

As a side note, I'm propably using false deck in my game soon. An NPC will offer to do fortune reading to my players, using something very similar to DoMT, drawing the cards and claiming their effects to be unavoidable. Don't know yet how it will play out :smalltongue:

Toliudar

2012-01-03, 12:40 PM

I do volunteer work at a casino fairly regularly. I see what regular old win-a-little-lose-a-little-more gambling does to people's lives. No way am I going to subject myself to the kinds of risks that deck entails.

Tyndmyr

2012-01-03, 12:46 PM

I apologize if this has been done already, I didn't see a thread like this. So like the title says, would you personally draw from the deck (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/dmt/dmt.htm)? If so, how many cards will you risk? Assume that everyone is level 1 in an NPC class, if that matters.

I drew 2 and got knight both times.

IRL? Only if the alternative was death. Then, I'd draw all the cards. Yeah, you heard that right.

Psyren

2012-01-03, 01:43 PM

IRL? Only if the alternative was death. Then, I'd draw all the cards. Yeah, you heard that right.

Drawing them all seems foolhardy or suicidal to me. You would NEED Fates and Moon to deal with Void and Donjon; even assuming you lucked out with Moon and got the full 4 wishes, the other three would then be needed to take care of Flames, Skull and potentially Rogue; if you're not lucky, one of those threats will have to be dealt with by Vizier or Knight, with neither even guaranteed to be helpful.

For the rest:
- Star can only negate Fool 33% of the time - for the rest, it's a net loss for you.
- Ruin and Talons would negate Sun, Gem, Throne and Key (though you'd keep the XP and Diplomacy boost.)
- Fool negates Jester.
- Euryale and Balance just suck.
- Knight is near-useless; it could only potentially defeat Rogue, and if it does you won't get Comet's benefit.
- Vizier requires a LOT of legalese to have guaranteed use, and even then can still screw you.

So even if you get enough wishes from Moon to survive all the threats, you would ultimately end up cursed, dumber and destitute, albeit up a level and more persuasive. But if you get less than 4 wishes, things get worse very quickly.

Drowlord

2012-01-03, 01:58 PM

I did this just for fun. This thing is diabolical.
1: Vizier
2: Key
3: Sun
4: Moon
5: Gem
6: Knight
Seven's the lucky number, right?
7: Void. :smallannoyed:

Marnath

2012-01-03, 02:02 PM

I did this just for fun. This thing is diabolical.
1: Vizier
2: Key
3: Sun
4: Moon
5: Gem
6: Knight
Seven's the lucky number, right?
7: Void. :smallannoyed:

Wow, that's a really nice 6 card spread. Usually things go badly before then.:smallbiggrin:

INoKnowNames

2012-01-03, 02:22 PM

The Deck of Many Things? Why does this feel like it's very very old...

With OOC Knowledge that it's a trap, never. In Real Life, never.

A few In Game Characters probably would, though, and I'll draw now, if only because I know the Internet can't hurt me.

Drawing...
Draw 1: Fates, Ace of Hearts. Cool.
Draw 2: Donjon, Ace of Spades. Do I break even, or does Donjon leave me perma messed up?

blazingshadow

2012-01-03, 05:03 PM

i always seem to have bad luck with it so in real life i probably shouldn't

1st time: euriale, talon, comet, flame, fool. have to draw again so...ruin
2nd time onwards is just 3 cards: throne, void....
3rd time: ruin, skull, void
4th time: gem, throne, euryale
i do wonder what would happen if you drew more than 1 throne. will you get a bigger castle or multiple ones?

Psyren

2012-01-03, 05:20 PM

Drawing...
Draw 1: Fates, Ace of Hearts. Cool.
Draw 2: Donjon, Ace of Spades. Do I break even, or does Donjon leave me perma messed up?

You break even - Fates can specifically protect you from "instantaneous occurrences", meaning that you have time to invoke it in response to Donjon or Void.

OverdrivePrime

2012-01-03, 09:46 PM

I'd draw three cards.

Draw 1: Jester - Gain 10,000 XP!
Draw 2: Gem - Gain 50 gems worth 1,000 gp each. I choose 10 rubies, 10 sapphires, 10 emeralds, 10 diamonds and 10 opals
Draw 3: Sun - Gain a beneficial medium wondrous item and 50,000 XP!!! I randomly roll an Amulet of Health +4, but that pales in comparison to gaining about 8 character levels levels in three card draws! O___O Freakin' sweet!

INoKnowNames

2012-01-03, 10:03 PM

You break even - Fates can specifically protect you from "instantaneous occurrences", meaning that you have time to invoke it in response to Donjon or Void.

Sweet. I guess I'll draw again.

Draw 1: Idiot, Two of Clubs. -Not- a Good Start.
Draw 2: Skull, Jack of Clubs. .... Well that sucks.

Good thing this isn't real life...

Belril Duskwalk

2012-01-03, 10:51 PM

Me as in me? No. Way too many ways to die or be crippled in that deck. For the hell of it though, I'll take 2:
1: Vizier, Ace of Diamonds. So an answer to a major question. Nice.
2: Key, Queen of Hearts. Free Magic Item? Yes please.
Not bad at all.

Favorite PC? Yes. He doesn't worship the Goddess of Luck for nothing. Sometimes, you have to roll the dice. He got the Fates card and still carries it, ready for use... after having survived Wild Magic zones, nearly deadly illusions, a daemonic invasion and a confinement in the Underdark later. Maybe he thinks himself a little TOO lucky.

Tvtyrant

2012-01-03, 10:57 PM

Marnath

2012-01-03, 11:06 PM

In RL, yes because its still better odds than the lottery.

In game, yes, but only if we were playing a none-serious campaign or in an emergency.

Used a random number generator:

1. Vizier
2. Star
3. Fool
4. Rogue
5. Skull

2 good, 3 bad. I would probably die on number 5.

6. Balance

Why a random number generator? Is the Deck generator in the OP not good enough for you?:smallwink:

Yeah, the dread wraith is just as much of a game over card as donjon or void, especially at low level. The only defense I can think of is to draw cards in the middle of a field on a sunny day and then run like the wind while it's stunned and fleeing for shade.

Psyren

2012-01-03, 11:07 PM

In RL, yes because its still better odds than the lottery.

On the other hand, your chances of losing your soul, all your possessions or being targeted for extraplanar extermination by playing the lottery are also pretty slim.

Tvtyrant

2012-01-03, 11:14 PM

The only defense I can think of is to draw cards in the middle of a field on a sunny day and then run like the wind while it's stunned and fleeing for shade.
...I like the way you think :P (And I honestly do not know why I used the number generator. I just did)

On the other hand, your chances of losing your soul, all your possessions or being targeted for extraplanar extermination by playing the lottery are also pretty slim.
But I could always ask the Vizier what the winning lotto number was going to be :P

SowZ

2012-01-04, 12:20 AM

Why a random number generator? Is the Deck generator in the OP not good enough for you?:smallwink:

Yeah, the dread wraith is just as much of a game over card as donjon or void, especially at low level. The only defense I can think of is to draw cards in the middle of a field on a sunny day and then run like the wind while it's stunned and fleeing for shade.

I kicked the crap out of the shade when it came at me. Of course, I was an epic level fighter. The deck is less of a threat when the party has access to wish, freedom, and the skill to kill a dread wraith.

Tyndmyr

2012-01-04, 10:24 AM

Drawing them all seems foolhardy or suicidal to me. You would NEED Fates and Moon to deal with Void and Donjon; even assuming you lucked out with Moon and got the full 4 wishes, the other three would then be needed to take care of Flames, Skull and potentially Rogue; if you're not lucky, one of those threats will have to be dealt with by Vizier or Knight, with neither even guaranteed to be helpful.

For the rest:
- Star can only negate Fool 33% of the time - for the rest, it's a net loss for you.
- Ruin and Talons would negate Sun, Gem, Throne and Key (though you'd keep the XP and Diplomacy boost.)
- Fool negates Jester.
- Euryale and Balance just suck.
- Knight is near-useless; it could only potentially defeat Rogue, and if it does you won't get Comet's benefit.
- Vizier requires a LOT of legalese to have guaranteed use, and even then can still screw you.

So even if you get enough wishes from Moon to survive all the threats, you would ultimately end up cursed, dumber and destitute, albeit up a level and more persuasive. But if you get less than 4 wishes, things get worse very quickly.

Let's flip through them, shall we? Comet, in this world, is not a big problem. However, this means I get a PC level. That is...pretty amazing in this world.

Balance is kind of meh.

Donjon is problematic.

Eurydale is annoying, but somewhat lower saving throws can be accepted. This is still in the realms of things I'd trade off for "level of wizard". Hell, wizard gives me +2 to will anyhow, so in overall saving throw modifiers, I'm barely worse off.

Fates is amazing, and will be used to negate one of the otherwise horrible things.

Flames is a gamble. It can be anyone. Note that I have a level of wizard, and, IRL, will freely utilize high cheese. If it's a solar or something, I'm pretty screwed, but I actually have a chance vs most outsiders, so this offers me a definite opportunity at more xp.

Fool. Whatever. I can't lose xp I don't have. Good chance of no effect whatsoever, and additionally, depending on state of the deck, might not even be in it.

Idiot. This one is truly unfortunate, and will fall into "things I'll prevent if I can", but is a lower priority than things that actually end me. Still, I'd rather be a wizard with pretty mediocre int than a commoner with great int.

Jester. If this is still in the deck, it's better than the fool. See, if it comes Jester, Fool, they neutralize each other. If vice versa, fool has no effect, and I'm up 10k. Comet's actual xp bonus comes after Fool, so it can't neutralize that, either.

Key. Magic Weapon is pretty badass. If I haven't already drawn out the cards that suck wealth dry...I immediately give it away to a friend before drawing the next card. Not really a win for me, but certainly a win for him.

Knight. Badass. Immediately send him far enough away that it takes more than one round for him to get to me if Rogue has not yet been drawn.

Moon. A minimum of one wish, so a minimum of one undo, but possibly four. I will have no difficulty drawing all cards in under a minute, so time is not a concern.

Rogue. Unfortunate, but not an immediate problem.

Ruin. Unfortunate, but if I'm drawing from the deck, I'm already in a desperate place money can't get me out of. Not worth negating.

Skull. This one's a bad day. It needs to be negated. Fortunately, as a wizard with Abrupt Jaunt, I have a few rounds of living left even if I haven't yet drawn a get out of jail free card. So, running, screaming, and drawing cards. A better solution is to simply draw the cards in natural sunlight, meaning that the dread wraith is entirely powerless. Use magic weapon or whatever to kill him. In fact, farming him with friends for xp is possible.

Star. Add to int. Hells yes.

Talons. Not a concern at all.

Throne. Hell yes, I'd like a castle, and better yet, becoming a true leader in people's eyes. Career in politics incoming.

Vizer is a get out of jail free card provided you include the phrase "with the resources I currently have".

Void. The absolute #1 thing to negate.

The absolutely biggest risk is the Void, and this means you need to pull one of the three avoidance cards before it. If your initial draw is the Void...you just lose. Note that while people cannot merely wish you out, wish CAN duplicate spells that can almost certainly do so. A wish may also be useable to prevent it...RAW is unclear on this point.

Donjon is the next biggest. Not because it's unsolvable...but because it stops you from drawing cards. Vizer SHOULD fix it by RAW...a wish in advance may fix it...but a wish once imprisoned should allow you to greater teleport out.

It all comes down to if you pull the get out of jail free cards before those two. There's three cards that get you out, and two truly lethal cards, so you're...somewhat favored to get one of those first. Still, it's a risky gambit. The rest of the cards offer you a net gain.

Edit: Actually drawing from the OPs things.

Assuming I am a 1st level Expert, and have taken the following precautions. Gave all worldly possessions to a friend, who is standing by. He's fully aware of D&D and the deck, and is unarmed. We are in full sunlight, in an open field at noon. Looking over the deck, I see it has 22 cards, and is thus a full deck.

I select "22" as the number.

1. Fates. God yes, I'm going to live.
2. Eurydale. Ouch. I'll take it.
3. Skull. God, the deck hates me. It appears in natural sunlight, and is powerless. Presumably, it will flee for darkness somewhere, but if it hangs around...free xp later.
4. Sun. Medium wondrous item. *rolls* (http://www.myth-weavers.com/generate_treasure.php?do=treasure) Decanter of Endless Water. Not a weapon, but nifty! I give it to my friend.
5. Void. I use fates to avoid it. Well, there goes my safety net.
6. Knight. I cheer, and have him go stand outside of charge range.
7. Sun again. Monks Belt. Hand it to friend, who is now pretty cheerful.
8. Skull again. Same, same. Hey, does them fleeing from me count as a win? Cause that's worth xp.
9. Gem. I hand the pile of jewels to my now very fortunate friend.
10. Ruin. Meh.
11. Skull. yadda, yadda.
12. Moon. Hells yeah. I roll a 4. This is a good day. I'm now safe again.
13. Skull. Yknow, I really hope all these guys aren't coming back tonight.
14. Key. *rolls* heavy flail +1. Hand it to buddy.
15. Skull yet again.
16. Key. handaxe +3 (unholy). Hand it to buddy while making jokes about his encumberance.
17. Gem. Hand him more wealth.
18. Donjon. I could stop it here and use a wish to escape, but instead, I'll go with the wish preventing it from happening. More fun interpretation that allows card drawing to continue...either way it's a win, tho.
19. Gem. You know the drill.
20. Sun. tome of leadership and influence (+1). I use that on myself immediately.
21. Fates. Oh, card 22, I fear you not at all.
22. Ruin. Meh.

So, summary...I sadly got no xp at all(unless forcing dread wraiths to flee is bad). However, I've got a fighter buddy now, a +1 to cha, and a very wealthy friend. On the negative side of things, there are a LOT of dread wraiths around, and I've been cursed.

Win? Loss? I dunno, but my life'll be more interesting.

Psyren

2012-01-04, 01:39 PM

Marnath

2012-01-04, 02:51 PM

Edit: Actually drawing from the OPs things.

Assuming I am a 1st level Expert, and have taken the following precautions. Gave all worldly possessions to a friend, who is standing by. He's fully aware of D&D and the deck, and is unarmed. We are in full sunlight, in an open field at noon. Looking over the deck, I see it has 22 cards, and is thus a full deck.

I select "22" as the number.

1. Fates. God yes, I'm going to live.
2. Eurydale. Ouch. I'll take it.
3. Skull. God, the deck hates me. It appears in natural sunlight, and is powerless. Presumably, it will flee for darkness somewhere, but if it hangs around...free xp later.
4. Sun. Medium wondrous item. *rolls* (http://www.myth-weavers.com/generate_treasure.php?do=treasure) Decanter of Endless Water. Not a weapon, but nifty! I give it to my friend.
5. Void. I use fates to avoid it. Well, there goes my safety net.
6. Knight. I cheer, and have him go stand outside of charge range.
7. Sun again. Monks Belt. Hand it to friend, who is now pretty cheerful.
8. Skull again. Same, same. Hey, does them fleeing from me count as a win? Cause that's worth xp.
9. Gem. I hand the pile of jewels to my now very fortunate friend.
10. Ruin. Meh.
11. Skull. yadda, yadda.
12. Moon. Hells yeah. I roll a 4. This is a good day. I'm now safe again.
13. Skull. Yknow, I really hope all these guys aren't coming back tonight.
14. Key. *rolls* heavy flail +1. Hand it to buddy.
15. Skull yet again.
16. Key. handaxe +3 (unholy). Hand it to buddy while making jokes about his encumberance.
17. Gem. Hand him more wealth.
18. Donjon. I could stop it here and use a wish to escape, but instead, I'll go with the wish preventing it from happening. More fun interpretation that allows card drawing to continue...either way it's a win, tho.
19. Gem. You know the drill.
20. Sun. tome of leadership and influence (+1). I use that on myself immediately.
21. Fates. Oh, card 22, I fear you not at all.
22. Ruin. Meh.

So, summary...I sadly got no xp at all(unless forcing dread wraiths to flee is bad). However, I've got a fighter buddy now, a +1 to cha, and a very wealthy friend. On the negative side of things, there are a LOT of dread wraiths around, and I've been cursed.

Win? Loss? I dunno, but my life'll be more interesting.

Wow, you actually got pretty nice cards for as many as you took. The pack of dread wraiths might be a serious problem though depending on how long they hang around.:smallamused: Although I guess you technically have the means to get rid of them all, if wish can do that and you want to use both fate cards.

Mystic Muse

2012-01-04, 03:09 PM

Alright. Going to try twice. Once with Three, once with nine.

1. Vizier. Nice
2. Donjon. Well, this sucks.
3. Talons (I know you can't draw after Donjon, but whatever)

1. Fool so this goes up to ten instead.
2. Star. Nice
3. Knight. I've got my own personal Bodyguard
4. Throne. Why do I suspect this is all going to go bad?
5. Talons. Eh,
6. Jester. Sweet.
7. Rogue. There goes my Knight Friend
8. Knight. Well, that problem just solved itself.
9. The void. Yep, all went bad.
10. The Sun, but entirely irrelevant now.

Zeta Kai

2012-01-04, 03:37 PM

I'll try it 3 times:

Two of Hearts/Gem: This card indicates wealth. The jewelry is all gold set with gems, each piece worth 2,000 gp, the gems 1,000 gp value each. Nice.
Queen of Spades/Euryale: The medusalike visage of this card brings a curse that only the fates card or a deity can remove. The -1 penalty on all saving throws is otherwise permanent. Not nice.
King of Spades/Ruin: As implied by its name, when this card is drawn, all nonmagical possessions of the drawer are lost. Not nice at all.

And that's why I don't play with the Deck. Because screw that.

Tyndmyr

2012-01-04, 04:27 PM

You misunderstood - I wasn't saying you would ever want to negate Ruin and Talons. I agree, if you're already in peril then those won't hurt too much more anyway. But drawing them after getting any of the goodies like Gem or Key will suck, because you can't then use those goodies to protect you from Flames, Rogue or Skull.

You're mistaken about Vizier, it is not a surefire bet against Donjon. It states:
"...Whether the information gained can be successfully acted upon is another question entirely."

So your answer to Donjon might be "That's easy, get an archmage to Wish you out." Oh, you don't personally know any archmages? Too bad. Or even "use the Wish card you're about to draw." Except you don't get to draw any more cards after Donjon, so you're still screwed.

Your only surefire escape from both Donjon and Void is Fates and Moon, and then only if you happen to draw the saves first.

Vizer needs the question to be asked carefully. Like "With the resources I have, how do I escape <situation>". Much like wish in the careful phrasing thing. It's an out for almost anything if phrased well...but yes, fates and moon are the ideal outs. Moon is most efficient, as it can give you multiple outs, but yeah...donjon and void coming up before an out is game over. That's the big risk in the deck. Donjon is avoidable in certain caster builds, but that's not a factor here.

Wow, you actually got pretty nice cards for as many as you took. The pack of dread wraiths might be a serious problem though depending on how long they hang around.:smallamused: Although I guess you technically have the means to get rid of them all, if wish can do that and you want to use both fate cards.

At this point, I'd chat with my friend, and we'd try to plot some way to kill them all for xp. If they hang around in natural sunlight, it's free xp...if they run, questionable results. They can't outrun a plane, though. So, me running is always an option. I'd ideally want to not waste my outs on them, but if it gets to a tight position, it's definitely an option.

Randrew

2012-01-04, 06:16 PM

I feel that the best use of the Deck of Many Things is a duel to the death with both parties taking turns drawing until one dies.

Missfortune

2012-01-04, 07:10 PM

Yeaaah, I got an interesting turn of events. Normally as a Lawful character I refuse to take cards from the deck. But the group agreed that if any of us got the Wish we would use it to help one of our players get her child back from the Evil NPC that had her (because we had NO clue who took her :P )

Anywho, I did three pulls (Because everyone that pulled 4 got hosed with their 4th pull)

The Theater - Steal an Ability Score from the next monster you kill.
The Keep - Gain a Keep
The Bear - Gain Werebear Lycanthopy

I was so worried about the Werebear because I have Paladin Levels, but then the GM explained Werebears are Lawful Good and I wasn't "Afflicted" and I was soooo relieved :P But the party gets a kick out of the Gnome that gets bigger :P Not that I didn't already have alter self as a spell memorized :) It's just a fun trick to play on people. He he he.

The Bear shift was immedaite, but I had to pick the location of my keep. As a Gnome, I decided to have my keep high in the west end of the Fenwall Mountains to overlook Lake Syrantula so I could put seige engines on the wall to protect the waters around Whistledown ;) and sent word to my family they could live in the keep. Gotta keep my peeps safe. It was also where my sister (a friends character) retired to. As an oracle, it was nice for the people to have a place to come see her.

So, once I was back adventuring again,we were facing of against those Lycanthrope Wolves that were hounding Sandpoint, which became a lot easier with my new Bear Stregth. :P That's what I killed first and got a +2 to my Strength from the Theater card further increasing my stats. I think I'm now one of the strongest gnomes around :) Grrr!

Marnath

2012-01-04, 07:48 PM

The Theater - Steal an Ability Score from the next monster you kill.
The Keep - Gain a Keep
The Bear - Gain Werebear Lycanthopy

Which version of the Deck were you using? O.o

PlzBreakMyCmpAn

2012-01-04, 10:50 PM

save crystal trick for the number

time abuse + Wild touch > augury

Assuming artifact > wishes, 120 is the number of cards I have found that

StClair

2012-01-04, 11:39 PM

Hell no.

That is all.

Marnath

2012-01-04, 11:42 PM

save crystal trick for the number

time abuse + Wild touch > augury

Assuming artifact > wishes, 120 is the number of cards I have found that

Can anyone translate for me? O.o

Mystic Muse

2012-01-04, 11:46 PM

Can anyone translate for me? O.o

I believe what he's saying is "Use the Save Game Trick until you get a desirable result" or something like that.

He's saying something about taking 120 cards, but I don't know the rest of what he's saying. He tends to use that candlejack meme and doesn't finish his sentences.

Flickerdart

2012-01-05, 12:05 AM

I drew three, because third time's the charm!

1: Rogue. Well, I reckon I could probably take any one of my friends in a fight, and they don't have any dirt on me.
2: Ruin. Unless computers are "sufficiently advanced technology" (which, I would argue, they are - since the perspective here is one of 3.5) I've just lost all of my everything - though since money isn't items, I can buy new stuff.
3: Moon. Dice roll nets me two Wishes - so I could give myself +2 to a stat forever, but I would much rather undo Rogue and then wish for 25,000 gp, which more than makes up for Ruin.

That wasn't deadly enough. Why not go again? Seven is another lucky number.

1: Fool. Derpa-derp. I don't have the XP to spare, I don't think, but that means 8 draws.
2: Throne. Very nice! I am now a celebrity and also have a castle - a "small keep" is close enough to a mansion. I kinda wish I could stop here but I said I'd draw six more.
3: Void. Did I say six? I meant one.

So, one lottery win and one forever-horrible-death. Let's see if we can do better with five draws.

1: Gem. Bling-bling!
2: Throne. Looks like the aforementioned bling-bling came in handy. Now I have a castle and a crown. Is there a card that gives you a country, too?
3: Talons. Don't own any magic items. Does the deck count? Did the deck just steal itself?
4: Ruin. If the deck didn't steal itself, it now stole all the stuff I just gained. I'm still a celebrity, but my awesome castle and such have, say, been stolen. By aliens. Redeem me, final card!
5: Donjon. Well, crap.

Let the lesson here be - always draw three cards.

herrhauptmann

2012-01-05, 12:24 AM

4: Ruin. If the deck didn't steal itself, it now stole all the stuff I just gained. I'm still a celebrity, but my awesome castle and such have, say, been stolen. By aliens. Redeem me, final card!

How would this work out in real life?
You receive a large brown envelope from the IRS (Americans only) informing you that you shall be audited. :smalleek:

Chained Birds

2012-01-05, 12:29 AM

First campaign I've ever played...

Drew Dread Wraith card... (Don't ask why a lvl 3 character would be in this position)

Made a new character (1 level lower than the previous), and had a second chance to draw a card.

Did I learn from my mistake?...

...

Drew Dread Wraith card...

:smallfrown:

To answer the OP: Yes I would... Can only get better from here...

Flickerdart

2012-01-05, 12:35 AM

How would this work out in real life?
You receive a large brown envelope from the IRS (Americans only) informing you that you shall be audited. :smalleek:
And subsequently jailed.

Marnath

2012-01-05, 12:40 AM

And subsequently jailed.

I'd have to applaud the police work that led to your arrest though, since you were entombed at the center of the earth a few seconds after drawing the ruin card. :smallwink:

Mystic Muse

2012-01-05, 01:09 AM

Okay, I just drew 21 cards, starting out with 20 because I drew the fool and the extra draw is not optional.

21: Idiot, 2 of clubs
20: Vizier, Ace of Diamonds.
19: Vizier, Ace of Diamonds.
18: Throne, King of Hearts.
17: Rogue, Jack of Spades.
16: Flames, Queen of Clubs.
15: Moon, Queen of Diamonds.
14: Vizier, Ace of Diamonds.
13: Key, Queen of Hearts.
12: Vizier, Ace of Diamonds.
11: Moon, Queen of Diamonds.
10: Comet, Two of Diamonds.
9: Ruin, King of Spades.
8: Vizier, Ace of Diamonds.
7: Ruin, King of Spades.
6: The Fates, Ace of Hearts.
5: Star, Jack of Diamonds.
4: Throne, King of Hearts.
3: Fool, Joker (black).
2: Moon, Queen of Diamonds.
1: Gem, Two of Hearts.

Overall, I got 5 viziers, 1 keep, a +12 to diplomacy checks, a major magic weapon, 4 wishes after using the previous ones to counter out the effects of ruin, Flames, and the 2 rogues, and the ability to say "No" to one happenstance.

It'd be nice if the wishes gave you a bit more time to choose what you want, but I could use the viziers I have to make the right decision on those choices.

zlefin

2012-01-05, 01:22 AM

i'd say no.
My default is to think how I can cheese it; get a level 20 wizard;
then realize i'm a level 20 cheese wizard, i don't really need anything else.

But for fun i'd use extensive cheese to avoid suffering too much from bad events and draw an absurdly large number of cards, resulting in a character level of stupid high after killing the laughably weak dread wraiths (as encounter for the +level from the other card). Since the DM clearly intended to end it all anyways, it isn't a problem if I become more powerful than gods. assuming the artifact doesn't just break from trying to level up a character who already has millions of levels (let alone googolplex).

Marnath

2012-01-05, 01:22 AM

If I drew any wishes and didn't need them to counter the bad cards I'd drop them all into inherent stat bonuses, myself. There's no way you can go wrong with that.

Flickerdart

2012-01-05, 01:30 AM

If I drew any wishes and didn't need them to counter the bad cards I'd drop them all into inherent stat bonuses, myself. There's no way you can go wrong with that.
The inherent stat bonuses are tiny, though. Even if you got all four, that's a +2 - enough to push you a little further, but not at all significant unless you are already at a threshold of a major discovery (maxed skill ranks, for instance).

SowZ

2012-01-05, 01:38 AM

The inherent stat bonuses are tiny, though. Even if you got all four, that's a +2 - enough to push you a little further, but not at all significant unless you are already at a threshold of a major discovery (maxed skill ranks, for instance).

Yeah, that seems odd to me from a fluff point of view. You have a spell that has the ability to reshape reality, but the most it can do to your physical strength is improve it to a degree that, half the time, is completely unnoticeable?

From a mechanics perspective, it isn't a terrible use of a wish...

Crocodactyl

2012-01-05, 03:44 AM

I would probably take as many cards as possible if i found it in game, but I never have. In real life, I think I would draw only one. Except for Donjon, I don't think anything else all too bad could happen. I don't have too much material wealth and it's not like I'd be in any position to complain if I died.

In a game of 1e I DMed, I made the stupid decision to roll a couple of treasure hoards with the book's tables. My players got a Deck of many things. Since there was no clear ruling, I let the two who wanted to split the draws and each take two cards. Nothing too life changing happened, except the Thief got the Skull card, killed the Minor Death, and kept its scythe. The book said that the Death's scythe dealt 2d8 damage, always striking first and never missing. I never was sure whether those were the stats of the creature or the weapon. fortunately, Thieves can't use scythes.

Tyndmyr

2012-01-05, 09:19 AM

If I drew any wishes and didn't need them to counter the bad cards I'd drop them all into inherent stat bonuses, myself. There's no way you can go wrong with that.

Hells yeah. I'd try to pull five in a row on some stat.

Actually, now that I think about it, selecting an arbitrarily large number of cards is the way to go. Since you statistically get more outs than crippling cards, you should eventually accumulate extra wishes.

So, should I ever start drawing in real life, I'll go for five thousand cards. It'll be a long day, but generally, it's a card a round for most things, so it'll be about an eight hour day and change. Say ten, just for the interruptions. Afterwards, I should have enough ludicrous power to kill all the dread wraiths at once, then cast Genesis.

Statistically, this should get me the following:

A giant pile of alignment changes, which basically cancel each other out.
An average of 2.5 wishes per Moon.
Comet does not stack...but as long as I'm willing to take time out to shoot a cat before drawing a card, I'm good. Epic levels, heyo!
Imprisonments neutralized by first wish.
Fates neutralize Voids
250 random outsiders who hate me, and whom will attempt to attack within 20 days.
Fools neutralized by second wish.
A small army of fighters and an implausibly large number of castles for them. Fortunately, I'll have an array of magic items to hand to them. 250 random magic weapons, 250 random moderate wondrous items. So...basically anything I need. Also, a truly ludicrous stockpile of gold. Note that a friend would be controlling all this, so we can high five a lot since we both win forever.
Since my friend is hanging with me, and is pursuing a plot to take over the world as my equal, he's clearly a PC, not a cohort. However, basically all other friends hate me, as does EVERYONE else. It's cool, though, my diplomacy modifier will win them all over.

Psyren

2012-01-05, 09:53 AM

How would just one Wish beat all your Donjons? (I'm genuinely curious.)

Tyndmyr

2012-01-05, 11:43 AM

How would just one Wish beat all your Donjons? (I'm genuinely curious.)

Oh, sadly, that's not the trick. It's just that the Moon card averages 2.5 wishes, and on average, I get it about as often. So, just drop your oldest wish each time, and you end up with a larger pile of rolling wishes.

Stopping the stat drain is rather easier. Wish for a magic item of Restoration. It's only a fourth level spell, so getting multiple restorations per wish should be easy, and each one fully restocks your stat drain. Combined with using wishes to get a +5 inherent bonus to Int, you can negate several bad draws with each Restoration.

You could do similar shenanigans with teleportation, but sadly, you need to entirely negate the donjon card, or you stop drawing cards and the chain breaks.

Also, the sheer amount of XP/levels received should result in a LOT of normal stat boosts via levels. So...you should be pretty well stated in general.

SowZ

2012-01-05, 12:40 PM

Oh, sadly, that's not the trick. It's just that the Moon card averages 2.5 wishes, and on average, I get it about as often. So, just drop your oldest wish each time, and you end up with a larger pile of rolling wishes.

Stopping the stat drain is rather easier. Wish for a magic item of Restoration. It's only a fourth level spell, so getting multiple restorations per wish should be easy, and each one fully restocks your stat drain. Combined with using wishes to get a +5 inherent bonus to Int, you can negate several bad draws with each Restoration.

You could do similar shenanigans with teleportation, but sadly, you need to entirely negate the donjon card, or you stop drawing cards and the chain breaks.

Also, the sheer amount of XP/levels received should result in a LOT of normal stat boosts via levels. So...you should be pretty well stated in general.

The only reason you have more outs than gains is because the moon gives multiple wishes. You have an equal chance of drawing instant death, (Void, Donjon,) as an out, (Fates, Moon,) initially. Your first five to ten draws or so will be super stressful.

Tyndmyr

2012-01-05, 12:58 PM

Right. But anyone who draws faces that risk. You get a void before you get an out, and it's curtains. The point is...once you get over that hump, you may as well keep going.

Flickerdart

2012-01-05, 01:06 PM

Skull would be instant death for you, though - so there are more chances to die instantly than there are to get Wishes.

Tyndmyr

2012-01-05, 01:07 PM

Skull would be instant death for you, though - so there are more chances to die instantly than there are to get Wishes.

Nope. Draw in full sunlight. Dread wraith is entirely powerless in natural sunlight, so, they're free xp as long as you have a magic weapon, which the deck gives you. Their only practical option is "run away, come back at night". By night, you have epic spellcasting.

Flickerdart

2012-01-05, 01:10 PM

Nope. Draw in full sunlight. Dread wraith is entirely powerless in natural sunlight, so, they're free xp as long as you have a magic weapon, which the deck gives you. Their only practical option is "run away, come back at night". By night, you have epic spellcasting.
Or they just wait until it gets cloudy. So you'd have to have a really reliable weather forecast, and not even Wish grants you that. :smalltongue:

Tyndmyr

2012-01-05, 01:14 PM

Or they just wait until it gets cloudy. So you'd have to have a really reliable weather forecast, and not even Wish grants you that. :smalltongue:

Meh, I don't even need all 5,000 cards to be able to take out all the dread wraiths at once. If I hit ninth level spells, maw of Chaos + death ward is a win against arbitrarily large numbers of dread wraiths. So, "not a cloud in the sky" is sufficiently good weather to start drawing.

Edit: Also, there's no reason not to give out magic weapons to the giant pile of level 6 fighters, and have them swing at any dread wraith in sunlight. So, they can't wait around near you. Free xp for minions is always a win.

SowZ

2012-01-05, 02:08 PM

Meh, I don't even need all 5,000 cards to be able to take out all the dread wraiths at once. If I hit ninth level spells, maw of Chaos + death ward is a win against arbitrarily large numbers of dread wraiths. So, "not a cloud in the sky" is sufficiently good weather to start drawing.

Edit: Also, there's no reason not to give out magic weapons to the giant pile of level 6 fighters, and have them swing at any dread wraith in sunlight. So, they can't wait around near you. Free xp for minions is always a win.

Sure, but look at your odds. You have about a 50% chance of dying before you get an out, (there is the slight chance of getting a luck dagger or something so it is very slightly in your favor,) and once you get an out there is always the chance you will draw more death cards in a row then you get outs. Ultimately, your odds of survival are less than half.

I guess it is a risk reward thing, though. Would you be willing to risk most likely death if survival means being the most powerful person in the world?

Psyren

2012-01-05, 05:01 PM

SowZ

2012-01-05, 05:28 PM

The danger of Flames is being understated immensely here though. You could end up with Asmodeus, Zaphkiel, Pelor, even Sertrous pissed off at you. All the levels in the world won't protect you from that.

I interpret it as a species of outside but even if it isn't it should be okay.

Also, if you use wishes as your out, odds are you will have about an equal number of 'fate' uses as you have flames. Even if you only have half as many fates left over as flames, odds are you can beat 90% of what is thrown at you at epic levels.

Talakeal

2012-01-05, 05:32 PM

3 Draws.

I got 18 CHA + Keep
Fourth level fighter bodyguard
And a huge stack of gems.

So about the best result I could have possibly gotten barring wishes.

Just as long as this fighter is someone who I can stand to be around I think I am golden.

Istari

2012-01-05, 05:37 PM

I drew one and got the key, could be useful depending on what enchantments it has or simply to sell.

Mewtarthio

2012-01-05, 07:26 PM

But what about Rogue? Even if the traitors are no threat to you, you've still managed to turn everyone you've ever loved into your most hated enemies. Do you have enough cards to counter that?

And then there's Balance. Balance can be countered by another Balance, true, but you only come out as yourself in the end if you draw a precisely even number of balances. That's a fifty-fifty chance you dedicate your newfound Phenomenal Cosmic Power to horrific ends.

SowZ

2012-01-05, 08:04 PM

Deodarthethird

2012-01-06, 10:07 AM

1: Gem, Two of Hearts.
2: Throne, King of Hearts.
3: Jester, Joker (red).

not bad, a castle and some jewels.... :smallbiggrin:

Psyren

2012-01-06, 10:29 AM

Or accept the negative level...

1) That's a DM penalty to a game character. From the in-system perspective we're assuming in this discussion, the deck's user wouldn't be able to "choose" his alignment.

On the other hand "radically different alignment" doesn't necessarily mean "polar opposite alignment." LG is arguably "radically different" from CG.

Particle_Man

2012-01-06, 10:57 PM

As a 1st level character, sure I would draw a card. Worst comes to worst, I can roll up another 1st level character, after all.

3drinks

2012-01-07, 02:06 AM

I opted to draw four cards.

1: Jester, Joker (red)- First draw, I opted for two more draws.

2: Gem, Two of Hearts- I'm like cool, I made some extra money.

3: The Void, King of Clubs- ...*reads description of Void*. **** me. V_V

I never got to see me last card, or my two extra cards...

Tried once more. Four cards again.

7: Moon, Queen of Diamonds- Nice free Wishes.
6: Key, Queen of Hearts- Good, good.
5: Gem, Two of Hearts- Great, keep 'em coming.

and my final one was...

8: Ruin, King of Spades- **** me. C'mon, seriously? You couldn't have come up first!? **** this! >_<