Workable 3.5 bard build?

[Reltzik]

I'm sure this has been addressed countless times on these forums, but the search function seems to be borked, so....

I'm looking for a workable 3.5 build for a bard (elf, at or about level 10) that's a good combatant. Core plus Wizards expansions, DM will allow anything that's not uberbroken. Pun-pun need not apply.

[Circle of Life]

Elf doesn't really add anything to a Bard, but it doesn't really take anything away either (except for precious hitpoints, but hey, if you're a fan of the pointy ears, more power to you).

For a very basic offensive Bard build, pick up the elf subrace from Dragon Magic, nab the Dragonfire Inspiration (Dragon Magic), Song of the Heart (Eberron Campaign Setting), and Snowflake Wardance (Frostburn) feats. You can increase the effectiveness of this with the Inspirational Boost spell and a Badge of Valor (MIC), as well as a Harmonizing (source unknown, not hard to find) Crystal Echoblade (MIC).

There are other more detailed Bard builds around, which will no doubt be brought up shortly, but that's the basic offensive Bard in a nutshell.

See also: Words of Creation (Book of Exalted Deeds). Use with caution, and potentially protective headgear.

[sonofzeal]

There's also Word of Creation, which can get a little... ridiculous. Especially combined with the other elements.


Oh, and Masterwork Instruments from Complete Adventurer. Each changes Inspire Courage in some way, usually a net positive.

[Lateral]

Bard 4/ Crusader 6. Forestlord elf subrace, Dragonfire Inspiration, Song of the Heart, Song of the White Raven, Words of Creation, Inspirational Boost, Masterwork mandolin, Badge of Valour. Have fun.

[hex0]

Bard/Sublime Chord/Iniatiate of the Seven Fold Veil is always fun

[gbprime]

I did a bard build for Iron Chef 14 that went Rogue / Duskblade / Prestige Bard. Morale bonuses, knowledge devotion, spell channelling, and sneak attack (plus Craven) makes for a very capable build through level 10.

[Ramza00]

Flaws allowed? The more feats the bard can get the better. I will try not to mention things that other people have done before, though I will repeat something if a point wasn't made.

Song of the Heart (Eberron Campaign Setting, requires inspire competence) +1 to Inspire Courage as well as some other abilities... Instead of spending a feat you can swap out suggestion for this ability (this is a very hard switch I wouldn't normally recommend doing but for a martial bard.)

Draconic Hertiage. (Many sources but Races of the Dragon for the battle dragon) Requires 1 level of sorcerer. Allows your dragonfire inspiration to do sonic damage instead of fire.

Dragontouched Feat (Dragon Magic). Gives you the dragonblood subtype, furthermore allows your character level to be treated as a sorcerer level for the purpose of taking dragon feats. You can now take Draconic Hertiage without a dip into sorcerer.

Human w/flaws and no dragon magazine (you can do elf, just remove 1 feat)
Bard 9/Virtuoso 1/Sublime Chord 1/Virtuoso 9 (19 levels of Inspire Courage and 9th level spells)
Feats you will want to take
(via flaw) 1 Dragontouched
(via flaw) 1 Draconic Heritage (battle dragon for sonic)
3 Song of the Heart
6 Words of Creation

You still have 2 feats free for an elf (Level 1 and Level 9) if you can take flaws, if you can't take flaws there goes all your feats.

Badge of Valor Item (1400G, Magic Item Compendium 208): +1 on current Inspire Courage. Activate immediately after the round you use Inspire Courage.

Masterwork Horn, Natural (100G/3 lb, Song and Silence 46): +1 on accuracy/damage, -2 on fear saves. Put a thin cord through this horn and hang it from your neck.

+2 attack/+2 damage Bard 8 (even though you are level 10)
+4 attack/+4 damage Words of Creation makes this (I am assuming WoC only doubles base Bard Levels), take 3d4 nonlethal damage
+5 attack/+5 damage Song of the Heart
+6 attack/+6 damage Inspirational Boost (spell compedium, use this turn swift action), takes 1st level spell slot
+7 attack/+7 damage Badge of Valor (use next turn intermediate action), uses 1 of 3 badge of valor charges
+8 attack/+8 damage, Masterwork Natural Horn, lose the moral bonus against charm and fear saves.

So 8d6 Sonic Damage buff to your party. You still have a move action so hide behind big stupid fighter.

Next round do another Inspire Courage but this time do not do sonic damage but normal inspire courage. You can only do +6 attack/+6 damage since you used up your 2nd round intermediate action (no inspirational boost or badge of valor).

[Gavinfoxx]

Here are a few handbooks for you for Bard:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8284

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9830

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6463

[Reltzik]

Thankyekindly, all, for the responses and especially the links.

[Coidzor]

If you want to search the site and the site search isn't working, something like site:giantitp.com "Bard Op" entered in to google will get you giantitp.com only results.

What's the name of the replacement site for BG again, minmaxit? Ahh, here it is, I believe. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=399.0)

[Dr.Epic]

I wouldn't really say there's a bad way to do this. Bard's are a pretty good class. Just have at least decent to good stats in everything and you should be fine.

[Socratov]

...and make sure to acutally specialise in at least 1 area (that is spellcasting, partyface, fighting, inspire courage). Some roles can be combined (I'll point you to the handbooks for that), but the whole jack of all trades master of none is seriously borked.

P.S. the Healing hymn ACF is a great thing to pick up when you will trade in your fascinate for Song of the Heart, if you go support iether way, make sure to completely walk that path :smallamused:

[FMArthur]

I wouldn't really say there's a bad way to do this. Bard's are a pretty good class. Just have at least decent to good stats in everything and you should be fine.

What? Bards develop a reputation for suckiness when someone tries to make a 'Jack of all trades' bard. If you don't specifically optimize at least one aspect of the bard's strengths it becomes a useless party member at basically everything. In a low-op Core game I don't think any class is more likely to be played as poorly, not even monks or fighters.

[Ramza00]

I will have to third what was said before (by Socratov and FMArthur)

Bards suck if you don't develop at least one area of themselves well. The reason is they are a jack of all trades, but if all the parts are so poorly developed then almost always the other 3 or 4 party members get the spotlight all the time.

But optimize well enough in one area (such as inspire courage, party face, spellcasting, etc) and suddenly bards rock. They just need to be better than your party members in one area where they can shine, and suddenly they are the most important team member for they are great at something (what you optimized for), as well as decent to good at everything else.

Bards are "team players" for they can be ****ing awesome, but the ways they are ****ing awesome is by making the rest of the party even better. (Damage boost, spellcasting, battlefield control, face, etc are things that don't hog the spotlight). This is unlike CoDzilla which is in competition with the party fighter to who is the better beatstick/damage dealer.

[Endarire]

Become Inspired (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9830.0).

[Greenish]

Become Inspired (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9830.0).Inspired are NPC-only. :smalltongue: