New Poster appreciates assistance (Part 2: Trying Multiple Classes)

[INoKnowNames]

First of all, Hello Playground! Long time Lurker (of at least two years, give or take), first time Poster. Salutations to everyone who reads these words, and thank you to anyone who responds. I had to refresh this page and my log in when I tried to preview this post, and I just realised that I did not want this name. I'm probably stuck with it unless I make a new email address and re-register, huh?

I have no idea what first got me into D&D. The Order of the Stick is such an amazing read, perhapse I figured it was time for me to try the game that helped birth it. Maybe years of video games involving various sword and magic heroes and settings have imbuned such interests within me. Perhapse it's simple curiosity of seeing what the experience is like, due to noticing various people who played the game in real life.

In any case, I decided I finally want to break into the world of Dungeons and Dragons. And considering how much time I spend on this Forum (between the Oots and some of the crazier things I've seen you guys talk about in the d20 section alone), I figured, should I be welcome, it would be nice to join you guys here. I was hoping I could get 3 things from you guys, assuming I wasn't asking too much.

First of all, I was hoping I could be given a little help in learning how to play.

I've recieved a lot of books from a former friend (most of them being d20/3.5, which is why I'm posting my intro here), and have been reading through the library. There sure is a lot of neat stuff (including a few things that make me fear the being that wrote them). But it's a lot harder for me to understand something that I read by itself.

It's stupid that posts and dirrect talking makes things clearer to me than if the same information is in a book. But at this point, I still don't really know how to even create a character sheet, let alone play a Reality Warping Morphing Fusing Dancing Magic Man. I'm certainly capable of learning, though. Any sort of tutorial for even a basic character would be swell. Those of you with nothing else to do and that are really nice can continue from here to my second request.

Second of all, since I've seen how amazing you guys are at coming up with insane character concepts and builds for them, I was hoping I could be given some help in character building.

I'm not too much of a Power Player in that I require myself to be the best at what I do, and better than anyone else in the party, but I would like a good path to follow. Being useful in a couple of areas out of my character's prefered combat role, as well as being at least decent in said combat role, is what I'm hoping to gain.

In keeping with my first request, I suppose a good level 1 character, with a plan for future levels, would be nice. A lot of games have given me a love of the blade. And I feel like it would be easier to use a swordsman than a reality warper anyway. So, while I'm trying to learn, I'd like to use a Warrior (Class can be Fighter, Warblade, Warrior, Commoner with a Sword, Homebrew, anything) to help facilitate that learning. Thematically, there's only one real stipulation to any build I'm given. Max, or even moderate effectiveness or not, my weapon must be a blade bigger than I am, or at least capable of being bigger than me as well as being useable. No jokes unless I make it out of solid gold and give it the ability to shoot diamonds to conpensate for lack of ranged combat. I'll call it "The Conpensator".

Seriously though, if -someone- can make a build enabling you to be able to circle the globe Holy Crap (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=cjp5kfok60st5qcf07vo31qm83&topic=5788.0), then enabling a man to fight with a blade bigger than an orc shouldn't be that hard... And before someone recommends it, I'd really rather not even hear the words "Strong Arm Bracers". Even if it's a dumb option to do, with much more optimal abilities available, and absolutely no logic behind it, the idea of me losing my ability to wield my massive weapon because I'm not wearing my bracelets is simply too much for my feeble mind to get around. Even if the DM decides to take my giant slab of rock from me, I'd rather that than needing a handicap to use the thing in the first place.

My pride's done worse things to me....

And lastly, although I'm not sure this is the section for it, I'd like any assistance in possibly joining an actual game. It's, of course, much harder to try to play when in College, even worse when you're trying to deal with further real life responcibility, and almost impossible when you have to factor in a job... I still want to try, though. I'll update my Signature with information regarding my schedule, although for now, Friday-through-Monday from 3 AM 'till 3 PM (Eastern Standard Time) is physically impossible for me, less I get in trouble and lose my job (which is not good). I'd still like to play, and using the Internet, either through Post-By-Post (which seems odd to consider), through a Chat-Room (which seems like it would be cool), or some other third option (with similarly additional comment), I bet I could give it a try. Doubt I'd be given permission to go in person to a game, not to mention half the time my beat up car's being repaired, which gives me enough hiccups just getting to work and school. So figuring out how to play online seems like it would be my best option.

I got a bunch of my old questions answered, and am happily trying to find some more games while working on the builds I said I'd work on. Right now, though, I have a -bunch- of new questions I'm trying to get answered, and would enjoy any responce I can get on them.

Barbarian Questions

I was going to go, and probably still will go, with the female feral friend of the forest furiously fighting her foes. However, I was watching Tv, and was reminded of another character who would make a pretty darn good Barbarian. However, he comes with a few issues the base class, fluff, and crunch might not be able to match up to. First of all, his unarmed damage with just his arm needs to be -insane-. Whenever he punches someone, with or without his power, they need to -hurt-. What can I do to make this stronger? And second, I need a variant of Rage that's stronger than basic Rage. Being able to go from one to the other, or advance dirrectly into the stronger, so long as I have the ability to use the former, is good. I was considering Frenzied Berzerker to satisfy both, but the "turn on and kill your own allies" aspect doesn't flow too well... I don't think I'd use Pounce for him, since he's less combo-y and more mega punchy. Unlike with the BFS concept, I accept that he might require some magic to really emulate, but it's worth asking if it could be done with just levels in Barbarian and Barbarian Prestige Classes. Otherwise, I'll probably go back to the Lioness themed Warrior...

Ranger Questions

Then there's the Ranger. I kinda got used to the idea of using the Swordsage for Two Weapon fighting, and decided that the Ranger (or Druid, which ever would be appropriate) would be an Archer. I actually don't think I have too much to ask. Mainly how Composite Bows work, and whether or not a Medium sized Ranger can Mount a Medium sized animal, like a Wolf. For the most part, the Ranger would take all of the other feats, and use the Combat Styles for Bow work. On a random note, can I use Zen Archery to get both Dex and Wisdom to attack rolls, and a Composite to get both Strength (what little I'd have) and Dex to Damage?

Divine Caster Questions

In addition to an Arcane Caster, I would like to try a Supportive Divine Caster (since it's already easy enough to play an offensive one). What options are there beyond the Cloistered Cleric for higher power level games and the Healer for lower power level games?

Also, I was under the assumption, what with there being a handful of people who note that a party simply needs a Wand of Healing (pick your flavor), that being support was a suboptimal role in the party. Although my definition of support is mainly in hit point and status repair, so there might be other ways to support that I simply haven't considered yet.


Arcane Caster Questions

I like the spontaneous casting of the Sorcerer, who can use any spell from his list at any time without needing to prepare so long as he has slots remaining. But the base Sorcerer class strikes me as boring in terms of class features and skills. And while spells easily get around this, I still kinda prefer a mix of all three. Beguiler looks pretty good for this kinda thing, but are there any other takers for such a position?

Swordsage Questions

And back to the Swordsage. While I'm still working on it, I had a question or two about a few techniques. How, exactly, does Moment of Alacrity work? +20 to initiative at any time I want. I'm not exactly certain how changing it helps me. I'd just be going before everyone else on my next turn, right? On my Warblade, I decided he'd go with Iron Heart Endurance over it, but if I can figure it out for my Swordsage, I'd give it a shot. I also wanted to think a bit about Combos. The first one that came to mind was Inferno Blade + Avalanche of Blades. Can I perform an extra hit per attack, or just the number of them for each of the Two Weapon Feats that I've learned so far? Also, Two Weapon Fighting + Time Stands Still. Am I capable of doing so? What about with Dancing/Raging Mongoose? 3 Attacks on a Full Attack, + 3 Attacks from Two Weapon Fighting, + 4 Attacks from Two Weapon Fighting Raging Mongoose. Times 2 in Time Stands Still? That's like, 20 attacks! Does that actually work as written? And I thought I read somewhere about the Snap Kick Feat to make that 22 attacks.... Power Attacking or not, that's painful.... If only I could attack multiple enemies around me in a Full Attack, that would be -awesome-... Heck, add Rising Phoenix stance for a little extra damage.... While I try to stop thinking about yelling out various combo phrases from Video Games, I also want to ask about Setting Sun's various throw moves, specifically Tornado Throw as an example. I toss the target in any dirrection I want by doing a successful trip, then chase it and throw it again? Can I choose the distance that the enemy gets thrown? And I suppose this would be a general question about the Tome of Battle, but about Adaptive Stance: I can't use it and a Swift Action Maneuver (like Quicksilver Motion or Shadow Blink), can I?

Crusader Questions

Considering all of the action packed goodness in Swordsage's Desert Wind, Shadow Hand, Tiger Claw,and Setting Sun moves (although Diamond Mind -will- be getting plenty of use), and the awesomeness of the Warblade's Iron Heart and Diamond Mind, I suppose I'll have to try out a Crusader that uses White Raven, Devoted Spirit, and Stone Dragon (it's so hard to fit that last one into a build because there's so much other goodness about...). So this is my Crusader question block. First, why are the Crusader stances so unalined? You'd think they'd have a stance progression that would enable them to choose uper level stances right. Warblade has a similar problem with his level 3 stance, but my DM for that character is being nice and letting me wait a level or two before taking another stance, so I can get Absolute Steel. But why does Crusder have such issues? I bet Swordsage does, too. Just haven't looked hard enough. Also, which would be more effective in creating a Lock Down build: A Pure Crusader, or a Fighter with some Crusader levels so I can gain all of the lock down feats and stuff? I'll probably make 1 Crusader (with maybe a few different levels, so long as I can still get 9th Level Maneuvers) as a simple Tank with those awesome shield moves (might try an outright Shield Fighter for it, actually).
Leader-like Classes.

I'd probably use the Crusader as an awesome leader ('cause White Raven and all that good stuff), but I was also considering the Bard (or maybe Noble from DragonLance). I like trying to write down my thoughts so I can apply them later, and I also seem to have here written down that I might try Rogue for a leader like class as well. I don't know what I was thinking... Which one sounds like it could be the easiest to play in such a role?

Why does no one like these classes again?

I know I shouldn't be opening up a can of worms, but while I'm asking about classes, I kinda want to open up a can of worms. What's wrong with the Truenamer and (other than a lack of synergy in class abilities) the Monk? I'd never choose a Monk anyway because being Lawful stinks (same for the regular Paladin, although I'd consider some of the UA Variants), but just curious.

I ment to fix the title yesterday, since I'm looking at more than my Swordsage's sheet right now.

[Urpriest]

As to your last request, the Arts and Crafts subforum has a thread with a bunch of helpful artistic types who will make avatars for people who ask for them. It's where I got mine.

As for a huge blade, here's the thing: think about what having a huge blade does for you when playing. If you wield a Large Fullblade or something like that, spending lots of feats and money to make it work, here's how you'll describe yourself in a session:


I crash my massive blade into the foe, slicing them in half!

By contrast, if you instead wield an ordinary greatsword, here is the sort of thing you might say:


I crash my massive blade into the foe, slicing them in half!

A big blade is a big blade, and that's all there is to it, even when it comes to description. A blade being literally bigger than you means nothing mechanically, and it's completely ok to just describe an ordinary greatsword as being that big.

Now if you're ok with that logic, there are two options for such a character that leap out: Warblade and Barbarian. As a Warblade you'll be more versatile, but you'll have to learn more tricks. A Barbarian is less versatile but potentially more damaging, and perhaps easier to play if you don't get nervous about your rages per day. Either character does well with a greatsword or similar weapon, generally by taking the Power Attack feat.

[Tvtyrant]

Maul of the Titans (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#mauloftheTitans) gets you a weapon larger than you. But it needs a strength of more than 18 to use.

I believe that there is a property that lets you change the type of damage you do with a weapon (but I do not know which one) which would allow you to treat it as a slashing instead of bludgeoning weapon.

[The Underlord]

Manuevers can be hard to learn for a beginer, so avoid them for now. I would recommend either a half-giant, half-ogre, goliath, or any race+strongarm bracers(found in Magic Item Compendium, or MIC). The races all have powerful build, which allows you to wield larger weapons and count as larger as long as it is beneficial, so no -1 to AC. Strongarm bracers allows to to wield larger weapons, but expilicitely says it does not stack with powerful builf.

[Urpriest]

Manuevers can be hard to learn for a beginer, so avoid them for now. I would recommend either a half-giant, half-ogre, goliath, or any race+strongarm bracers(found in Magic Item Compendium, or MIC). The races all have powerful build, which allows you to wield larger weapons and count as larger as long as it is beneficial, so no -1 to AC. Strongarm bracers allows to to wield larger weapons, but expilicitely says it does not stack with powerful builf.

Half-Ogres are Large, they don't have Powerful Build. And they only count as larger for very specific things (which includes bigger weapons, yes).

[The-Mage-King]

First of all, Hello Playground! Long time Lurker (of at least two years, give or take), first time Poster. Salutations to everyone who reads these words, and thank you to anyone who responds. Also, +1 Internet to the first person to recall what I'm referencing.

Well then, greetings to you, as well!

I had to refresh this page and my log in when I tried to preview this post, and I just realised that I did not want this name. I'm probably stuck with it unless I make a new email address and re-register, huh?

There's a thread for that. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108349)


In any case, I decided I finally want to break into the world of Dungeons and Dragons. And considering how much time I spend on this Forum (between the Oots and some of the crazier things I've seen you guys talk about in the d20 section alone), I figured, should I be welcome, it would be nice to join you guys here. I was hoping I could get 3 things from you guys, assuming I wasn't asking too much.

Excellent! Always good to have a new player for the system!


First of all, I was hoping I could be given a little help in learning how to play.

I've recieved a lot of books from a former friend (most of them being d20/3.5, which is why I'm posting my intro here), and have been reading through the library. There sure is a lot of neat stuff (including a few things that make me fear the being that wrote them). But it's a lot harder for me to understand something that I read by itself.

It's stupid that posts and dirrect talking makes things clearer to me than if the same information is in a book. But at this point, I still don't really know how to even create a character sheet, let alone play a Reality Warping Morphing Fusing Dancing Magic Man. I'm certainly capable of learning, though. Any sort of tutorial for even a basic character would be swell. Those of you with nothing else to do and that are really nice can continue from here to my second request.

Why of course- ask away!


Second of all, since I've seen how amazing you guys are at coming up with insane character concepts and builds for them, I was hoping I could be given some help in character building.

I'm not too much of a Power Player in that I require myself to be the best at what I do, and better than anyone else in the party, but I would like a good path to follow. Being useful in a couple of areas out of my character's prefered combat role, as well as being at least decent in said combat role, is what I'm hoping to gain.

In keeping with my first request, I suppose a good level 1 character, with a plan for future levels, would be nice. A lot of games have given me a love of the blade. And I feel like it would be easier to use a swordsman than a reality warper anyway. So, while I'm trying to learn, I'd like to use a Warrior (Class can be Fighter, Warblade, Warrior, Commoner with a Sword, Homebrew, anything) to help facilitate that learning. Thematically, there's only one real stipulation to any build I'm given. Max, or even moderate effectiveness or not, my weapon must be a blade bigger than I am, or at least capable of being bigger than me as well as being useable. No jokes unless I make it out of solid gold and give it the ability to shoot diamonds to conpensate for lack of ranged combat. I'll call it "The Conpensator".

Seriously though, if -someone- can make a build enabling you to be able to circle the globe Holy Crap (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=cjp5kfok60st5qcf07vo31qm83&topic=5788.0), then enabling a man to fight with a blade bigger than an orc shouldn't be that hard... And before someone recommends it, I'd really rather not even hear the words "Strong Arm Bracers". Even if it's a dumb option to do, with much more optimal abilities available, and absolutely no logic behind it, the idea of me losing my ability to wield my massive weapon because I'm not wearing my bracelets is simply too much for my feeble mind to get around. Even if the DM decides to take my giant slab of rock from me, I'd rather that than needing a handicap to use the thing in the first place.

My pride's done worse things to me....

As Ur-Priest said, it's mostly fluff that determines how a weapon looks. I could say that my rapier looks like a drill, but it'd still work like a rapier.

That being said, though, a Alchemical Gold (MoF) Large Bastard Sword would be your best bet and, as much as I hate saying the phrase "Monkey Grip", I'm afraid I will for this.

Well, that or something with Powerful Build.

But yeah. Warblade is what you want, for that. Focus on Iron Heart, I'd say.



And lastly, although I'm not sure this is the section for it, I'd like any assistance in possibly joining an actual game. It's, of course, much harder to try to play when in College, even worse when you're trying to deal with further real life responcibility, and almost impossible when you have to factor in a job... I still want to try, though. I'll update my Signature with information regarding my schedule, although for now, Friday-through-Monday from 3 AM 'till 3 PM (Eastern Standard Time) is physically impossible for me, less I get in trouble and lose my job (which is not good). I'd still like to play, and using the Internet, either through Post-By-Post (which seems odd to consider), through a Chat-Room (which seems like it would be cool), or some other third option (with similarly additional comment), I bet I could give it a try. Doubt I'd be given permission to go in person to a game, not to mention half the time my beat up car's being repaired, which gives me enough hiccups just getting to work and school. So figuring out how to play online seems like it would be my best option.

Well then, allow me to point you to the locale I play D&D in most...


GitP's PbP forum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51). :smalltongue:


I appologise if at any time I come off in a way that I shouldn't, or if I'm being unreasonable, and I appreciate any help I get. Hopefully my posting was easy to follow, and I didn't seem bad or ignorant or rude or anything. First impressions are important, and hard to fix.

I hope I'll be happy here in the Playground.

Eh. Just seem kinda new at this. Hope you have a decent time here.


Edit: One additional, Minor request. How do you guys with the customized avatars make said avatars? 'cause I would prefer a cooler avatar than this one. Preferable one with a massive blade. Maybe very very wide, and possibly being used to shade me. I-don't-have-a-problem-stop-looking-at-me-like-that.

Oh, that's easy. The Arts and Crafts (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=27) forum has a "request an OotS style avatar" thread filled with good artists who offer up their skills. Easy 'nough, no?




EDIT @Underlord: Only if you're one of those quasi-newbs. ToB is a fairly simple set of rules to pick up, if you can use the maneuver cards (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a) to keep track. Especially for Warblade, who only gets 3 at first level, and has an easy recovery mechanic.

[meto30]

The fact that you are looking for games to join is enticing, as my campaign is lacking a player right now and we've been on the lookout. If you're interested, PM me or post on this thread, and maybe we can work something out. Although it is likely we'll have schedule conflict because of different time zones.

If you're willing to sacrifice a lot to get that big ubersword, by all means do so. You as the player should define your character, in ways you like, using means you like. (At least that's my philosophy) Some of the more optimization-minded parties won't like it though, so you will either have to be picky in joining a game or compromise and get a more ordinarily-sized weapon.

The massive amount of feats you'll need for that weapon means that you'll probably need levels in fighter to make it playable. Otherwise, fighter isn't really good, in my opinion.

[Greenish]

Warblade isn't that complicated, and certainly makes a good swordsman. It even has some skills useful out of combat, along with the universal lockpick (Mountain Hammer maneuver) and the like for utility.

For wielding a big blade, I prefer races with Powerful Build, such as half-giant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicRaces.htm#halfGiants) (EPH), goliath (RoS) or eneko (SoS). Goliaths make particularly good warblades.


On creating character sheets, if you can describe your problems, we can help you further. Most of the stuff is rather simple (race, class, level, age, etc.)

[INoKnowNames]

Wow. You guys are fast as heck. Or I'm very slow. Probably a mix of both.

Seems like the general concencus is that the idea that I have in my head isn't going to be happening. To be fair, not only have I not truly mentioned the idea, but the idea is pretty darn ridiculous. I'll spoiler it here if anyone feels like reading a little story of a dream I had about this person, since how I think I see it in action is probably more effective at saying what I want it to do rather than trying to describe it mechanically, but I think it will be best if I simply use a normal Great Sword for my first character. Although if someone can figure out how to run around the Earth in the same time someone else can walk a few feet and hit once, this dream shouldn't be that insane...
The character sat at the bar, chewing on his food. His dinner was rudely interrupted, by a group of thugs. One the men began to bark at the lone warrior, while a pasteyfaced underling turned the man to face the gang.

"You are the Legendary Kaiju Slayer? You're still wet behind the ears! How could you have possibly slain the Red Dragon and saved Princess Fanservice?"

The warrior smiled, and pulled a trinket off of his necklace. It was in the shape of a sword, and about the size of a butterknife.

"With this.", the warrior responded.

The gang all began to laugh, and the leader of the group howeled in bemusement. "That little thing? You claim to have slain anything with a tool like that? Surely your own blade is larger than that toy. You probably couldn't cut your hair with a thing like that. How do you expect anyone to believe you could use it to slay a Dragon?"

At his words, the warrior's grin turned into a blood thirsty grimmace. He began to eye his targets, as well as the tavern itself. He caught the eye of the owner of the facility, who knew full well the power this fighter held. The owner had already begun to evacuate customers and prepare himself for the worst. The warrior smurked, wondering how much he would conpensate the owner in collateral damage.

"Like this.", the warrior responded. He threw the tiny blade at the fool who disturbed him, imbedding the blade into his armor.

The gang broke into laughter again. The underling giggled sarcastically, unaware of the danger he was in. "Oh help me, for I seem to have some dinnerware logged in my armor! Oh help me, oh he-GAAAH!"

The victim was slain before he could realise what had transpired, only seeing a flash of steel. The blade grew large enough to pierce through the side of the restraunt. The upper half of the body impaled upon the once harmless piece of jewelry became unintelligible. The laughter by the hoodlums turned into screams of terror by onlookers, as the warrior grabed the hilt of the massive weapon, and retracted it into a form capable of fitting inside the building.

The warrior walked towards the group, his blood thirsty grin still etched across his face. The leader, although un-nerved, commanded his entorage to deal with this threat. Several solders hesitated for a moment, then charged together at the lone warrior. The warrior grew his blade again, and sliced through several hapless targets at once with a crescent slash that carved through the front of the building itself.

Although he had ducked in time to dodge the attack, the leader knew when he was outmatched, and had wittnessed more than enough of the killing style of this warrior. He ran for his life, quickly followed by the goons of his that had survived the assault. After he escaped from the building, he turned around to get one last look at the man. He reconsidered his decision after the demonic blade burst through the front doors of the building, stoping inches from his face. The man and his trope continued to run for their lives.

The warrior shrunk his weapon back down to inconspicuous size, and finished what remained of his meal within the tattered remains of the building. The owner surveyed the scene, shaking his head at the carnage. While he knew the money from the warrior would be enough to cover the damages and then some, could he handle the publicity? Then again, the man certainly had no intentions of arguing with the fellow before him...

As to your last request, the Arts and Crafts subforum has a thread with a bunch of helpful artistic types who will make avatars for people who ask for them. It's where I got mine.
Gonna have to head down there and see if I can lurk around enough to get a feel on how to draw again... I'd rather not bother them with actually doing it for me unless they would really really like to...

Now if you're ok with that logic, there are two options for such a character that leap out: Warblade and Barbarian. As a Warblade you'll be more versatile, but you'll have to learn more tricks. A Barbarian is less versatile but potentially more damaging, and perhaps easier to play if you don't get nervous about your rages per day. Either character does well with a greatsword or similar weapon, generally by taking the Power Attack feat.
I've lurked long enough to have encountered Tome of Battle. And I found it in my library. While I'll need to ensure I figure out a way to factor it into a character sheet, I think I might like the Warblade. I basically have a list of special moves, and I can use each move once until I spend a turn not using them, right? A few other stipulations here and there, but some of the moves kinda match with the dude I have in my head.... Seems like it'd be fun to play with special attacks anyway.
For this character, unless it's encouraged by whatever group decides to risk having me aboard first, I'm not seeing Barbarian. As exilerating as he gets when he's excited, he's nothing like the person I intend to use for the "HULK SMASH" role. Although then again, she's more of a "HULK TEAR OUT YOUR ORGANS" kinda girl...
2 Handed Weaponing with Power Attack is most definitely going to be what my main does, yes.

Maul of the Titans (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#mauloftheTitans) gets you a weapon larger than you. But it needs a strength of more than 18 to use.
I believe that there is a property that lets you change the type of damage you do with a weapon (but I do not know which one) which would allow you to treat it as a slashing instead of bludgeoning weapon.
I feel like, if anything, I could stab someone with the point on the end of it, but I don't think I can cut someone with the hammer itself. Otherwise, that's awesome as heck, and seems like the kind of thing I'd enjoy in game for the heck of it.

Manuevers can be hard to learn for a beginer, so avoid them for now. I would recommend either a half-giant, half-ogre, goliath, or any race+strongarm bracers(found in Magic Item Compendium, or MIC). The races all have powerful build, which allows you to wield larger weapons and count as larger as long as it is beneficial, so no -1 to AC. Strongarm bracers allows to to wield larger weapons, but expilicitely says it does not stack with powerful builf.
Of the listed, Goliath sounds neat... I might avoid maneuvers, but some of them seem awesom as heck to bust out... I feel like Final Fantasy and a certain yellow haired emoish boy are to blame....

Half-Ogres are Large, they don't have Powerful Build. And they only count as larger for very specific things (which includes bigger weapons, yes).
I don't think I can take a Half Ogre and still get a class at 1st level, though... All sorts of awesome races, but those hit dice and level adjustment thing seem more trouble than they're worth some times...

Well then, greetings to you, as well!
Thank you for the greeting. ^_^


There's a thread for that. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108349)
Additional Thanks for the Thread. Now I just need to decide what monkier I intend to go with... Soul Fantasy or Final Calibur... or something non retarded... although the later makes a good name for a weapon...

Excellent! Always good to have a new player for the system!
Aren't you just friendly.

Why of course- ask away!
I think the biggest issue I have right now is simply being a virgin to the game and being nervous about it. That and trying to structure a character sheet in a way that allows me to not only store the information, but be able to flexibly modify it and easily pull out the most relevant bits. As well as trying to ensure it's filled out properly. Making sure every single number and bonus is keyed properly and remembering what it means, as well as some of the modifiers I'm not even sure I'm seeing or not...
A lot of it is just me complaining... I'm sure once I get my feet soaked, I'll start swiming the way I should... or maybe drowning and walking on the floor of the pool..

As Ur-Priest said, it's mostly fluff that determines how a weapon looks. I could say that my rapier looks like a drill, but it'd still work like a rapier.
Giga Drill Breaker?

That being said, though, a Alchemical Gold (MoF) Large Bastard Sword would be your best bet.
I was actually refering to this when I was mentioning the Compensator. (http://i.imgur.com/OneHG.jpg)

Well then, allow me to point you to the locale I play D&D in most...
GitP's PbP forum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51). :smalltongue:
No idea how to attempt Post by Play, but could I make a profile for the character I have and my play style and schedule in the Player Registry or on a new thread?

Eh. Just seem kinda new at this. Hope you have a decent time here.
That, my friend, is a text book example of what she said. And I always seem to hear it...
I think I'll enjoy the forums quite a bit. Looked nice enough watching, at the very least.

EDIT @Underlord: Only if you're one of those quasi-newbs. ToB is a fairly simple set of rules to pick up, if you can use the maneuver cards (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a) to keep track. Especially for Warblade, who only gets 3 at first level, and has an easy recovery mechanic.
I actually did have a roleplay issue with Tome of Battle that I think may have been mentioned here, but that I don't remember getting the answer to... I feel like reviving the question.
Why would I be able to use several different moves 1 time before needing to refresh them all, but I can't do one type of attack repeatedly? It seems... odd.

The fact that you are looking for games to join is enticing, as my campaign is lacking a player right now and we've been on the lookout. If you're interested, PM me or post on this thread, and maybe we can work something out. Although it is likely we'll have schedule conflict because of different time zones.
Accursed Time Zones... it's bad enough I've got an hour or so to sleep before I need to wake up for work.... now it messes up my gaming.... Father Time's a jerk..
Still, if something could be worked out, and you didn't mind a neophyte following you guys around, observing you and watching how you do things, I'd enjoy any chance I could get to play. I'm not really good at roleplaying Lawfully, and my Evil isn't really Super Villain evil, but otherwise I'm willing to give any role a try if I can...

If you're willing to sacrifice a lot to get that big ubersword, by all means do so.
Can I sacrifice souls to get my dream sword? Or maybe maiden blood and unicorns? 'cause I can totally make that happen.

The massive amount of feats you'll need for that weapon means that you'll probably need levels in fighter to make it playable. Otherwise, fighter isn't really good, in my opinion.
I wonder what type of class Tarquin of Oots Fame is... hasn't really demonstrated too many concrete abilities, yet effortlessly defends against a relatively skilled adventurer... Think he's a Fighter, or something fancy?

On creating character sheets, if you can describe your problems, we can help you further. Most of the stuff is rather simple (race, class, level, age, etc.)
For the most part, it's probably the book keeping and filling of every single detail that just seems like a daunting task... I tried writting a character sheet for a Wizard... Definitely not trying that again without more experience. People say the 3DS's 3D hurts your eyes... felt like a massage after that chaos...
I'd respond longer, but I gotta get my at-most hour of sleep so I can wake up and go to work... and then go to College.... Ugh...
Thanks for all the feed back so far! I have good feelings about this board.

[Greenish]

Seems like the general concencus is that the idea that I have in my head isn't going to be happening.…That's not quite what we have been saying. :smallconfused:


For this character, unless it's encouraged by whatever group decides to risk having me aboard first, I'm not seeing Barbarian. As exilerating as he gets when he's excited, he's nothing like the person I intend to use for the "HULK SMASH" role. Although then again, she's more of a "HULK TEAR OUT YOUR ORGANS" kinda girl...Have you, in your lurkings, come across the idea of separation between the fluff and the crunch, by any chance?


I don't think I can take a Half Ogre and still get a class at 1st level, though... All sorts of awesome races, but those hit dice and level adjustment thing seem more trouble than they're worth some times...They often are.


I think the biggest issue I have right now is simply being a virgin to the game and being nervous about it. That and trying to structure a character sheet in a way that allows me to not only store the information, but be able to flexibly modify it and easily pull out the most relevant bits. As well as trying to ensure it's filled out properly. Making sure every single number and bonus is keyed properly and remembering what it means, as well as some of the modifiers I'm not even sure I'm seeing or not...Have you tried an electric sheet? Those help you fill in the derived characteristics once you put in the basics. Sites like Mythweavers (http://www.myth-weavers.com/forumhome.php) host character sheets. Maybe you should try to make a practise character, and ask here if there's something you don't know. You can give a link here, and we can check it for mistakes.

Here's (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=324613) one of mine for a sample, from a PbP game that sadly died almost right after starting.

No idea how to attempt Post by Play, but could I make a profile for the character I have and my play style and schedule in the Player Registry or on a new thread?Usually, a character is made for a campaign, following the specific character creation rules of that game, not to mention having a backstory to fit with the world and the adventure.

Still, nothing to stop you from trying.


Why would I be able to use several different moves 1 time before needing to refresh them all, but I can't do one type of attack repeatedly? It seems... odd.You need to get yourself and the enemy in right positions to execute the strike you want. Fighting isn't like chopping wood, repeating the same movement over and over isn't going to cut it.


I wonder what type of class Tarquin of Oots Fame is... hasn't really demonstrated too many concrete abilities, yet effortlessly defends against a relatively skilled adventurer... Think he's a Fighter, or something fancy?OotS doesn't do fancy. I seem to recall a half-ogre with spiked chain, spring attack and combat reflexes (who didn't even try to trip his enemies) got called "cheesy", and Elan stating PrCs are for munchkins and clerics. Just for example.

Tarquin is probably a high/high-ish level fighter with rather poor feat choices.

[Gavinfoxx]

If you really wanna be big or have a big weapon, here is a thread dedicated to the topic:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7081777

[meto30]

The time zone difference will be a killer. We live in Korea, which is UTC-9, and thus 14 hours ahead of Eastern Standard Time. Basically, if you are in the states, day over here is night over there and vice versa. We usually play in the afternoon, which also complicates matters, as you're looking at early morning (assuming you are in the states). If you don't live in the Americas, then the time zone issue is a bit different, but unless you are in Austrailia or East Asia, the issue is not going away :smallfrown:

Otherwise, if you're interested, we do the entire campaign on Google Docs. In case you don't know what that is, google has excellent documentation on it (as is to be expected :) ). Here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0Ag5KWBe-CINtdHB1THZfNmZmUnZrRlZqeUxueDBlc0E&output=html)'s the campaign abbreviated journal and party roster.

[The-Mage-King]

Aren't you just friendly.

Hey, better 3.5 than 4E, in my opinion.


I think the biggest issue I have right now is simply being a virgin to the game and being nervous about it. That and trying to structure a character sheet in a way that allows me to not only store the information, but be able to flexibly modify it and easily pull out the most relevant bits. As well as trying to ensure it's filled out properly. Making sure every single number and bonus is keyed properly and remembering what it means, as well as some of the modifiers I'm not even sure I'm seeing or not...
A lot of it is just me complaining... I'm sure once I get my feet soaked, I'll start swiming the way I should... or maybe drowning and walking on the floor of the pool..

Yep. But to make things quicker, try making an electronic sheet, like on-


...Greenish beat me to it. Myth-Weavers is VERY good for that.


Giga Drill Breaker?

:D


I was actually refering to this when I was mentioning the Compensator. (http://i.imgur.com/OneHG.jpg)

Of course, of course. Thing is, though, that what I suggested is... Well, it's decent at damage dealing.


No idea how to attempt Post by Play, but could I make a profile for the character I have and my play style and schedule in the Player Registry or on a new thread?

Mostly, you look for a recruitment thread that looks interesting, post interest, and then make your character.


I actually did have a roleplay issue with Tome of Battle that I think may have been mentioned here, but that I don't remember getting the answer to... I feel like reviving the question.
Why would I be able to use several different moves 1 time before needing to refresh them all, but I can't do one type of attack repeatedly? It seems... odd.

Think of it this way- can you get your opponent to have the same opening twice in a row? No.

Refreshing maneuvers is basically adjusting your footwork and repositioning yourself to use the maneuver again, honestly. That and coaxing your foe into revealing the chink in their defense that you can abuse again.



I wonder what type of class Tarquin of Oots Fame is... hasn't really demonstrated too many concrete abilities, yet effortlessly defends against a relatively skilled adventurer... Think he's a Fighter, or something fancy?

Probably Fighter. Like Greenish said, the optimization level in OotS is fairly low.


For the most part, it's probably the book keeping and filling of every single detail that just seems like a daunting task... I tried writting a character sheet for a Wizard... Definitely not trying that again without more experience. People say the 3DS's 3D hurts your eyes... felt like a massage after that chaos...

Yeah, an electronic sheet is a thing you should try. Just need to input the basics (level, ability scores, BAB, Save bonuses, Skill ranks), and it'll calculate most of it.

[INoKnowNames]

…That's not quite what we have been saying. :smallconfused:

Pardon me if I sounded like I wasn't trying to listen. I certainly hope that I've understood at least a little of what I've been told so far. I'd be greatful for any misinterpritation on my part to be fixed.

I suppose the easiest way to explain what I think I'm hearing is with pictures. You guys have given out plenty of good advice, aiming for the average player who wants to be like Cloud Strife (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S938SBf3fUI), at least in terms of weapon usage (the dancing is another matter all together). And while that's probably what I'll be going with for one of my first characters (depending on any role I can get on the play section of the boad), I'm actually hoping more for a sword about the size ofJack Rakan's (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahou_sensei_negima/v22/c200/8.html). However, considering how most sources of larger weapon based combat involve making yourself bigger, or a racial ability/larger sized race/item/feat, all of which seeming to be unable to stack and providing a minor increase in terms of weapon wielding,the incredibly unrealistic and farfetched style that I had in mind would probably best be shelved. Instead, I could use some of the tips given so far and find a party to join.

Have I made an error in my understanding? If so, please let me know.


Have you, in your lurkings, come across the idea of separation between the fluff and the crunch, by any chance?

I have. The arguments were interesting, at least until some people on both sides were basically insulting each other, which isn't cool.

From my recollection, one side championed the idea that you noted: the separation of church and state fluff and crunch. That a character is the sum of their own actions, not the classes and abilities that make it up. The other side insisted on the opposite ideal, that the character concepts and classes were one in the same, and that you simply couldn't split the two from eachother. A tradition kind of thing. Am I missing anything important, or do I have the basic jist of it?

Personally, I see and respect both sides of it. Anything that binds someone's ability to roleplay something that they want to be able to do (unless it's something bad towards other players, the dm, and the overall nature of the game itself) isn't very cool to me. But then again, some things do have that bit of precidence because of it's status in history. There are just some things that have been so ingrained that removing them seems odd.

Back to the idea of a Barbarian, there are at least 4 different concepts I'd have for such a thing. From the feral warrior who lashes out at her enemies in anger, to a dashing hunter triggering the devilish energies in his blood; a hyperactive kid with the ability to calm himself while singlemindedly focusing on a threat in times of need, to a closet pervert who was "excited" by those hostile to him (doubt I'd ever actually play the last one :smalleek:).

I have no problem with accepting or denying either side of the fluff vs crunch idea. I just like playing what I like, and having abilities similar to it.



They often are.

Which stinks, because a lot of them are pretty cool... I know I read about someone playing a bear druid riding a bear and summoning bears... I could barely contain myself...


Have you tried an electric sheet? Those help you fill in the derived characteristics once you put in the basics. Sites like Mythweavers (http://www.myth-weavers.com/forumhome.php) host character sheets. Maybe you should try to make a practise character, and ask here if there's something you don't know. You can give a link here, and we can check it for mistakes.

I'm suppost to register with Myth-Weavers before I can create a sheet, right? Just making sure.


Here's (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=324613) one of mine for a sample, from a PbP game that sadly died almost right after starting.
Usually, a character is made for a campaign, following the specific character creation rules of that game, not to mention having a backstory to fit with the world and the adventure.

Still, nothing to stop you from trying.

Sorry that your game didn't get started... That looks like it had a lot of work done on it.... The character looks pretty cool, and everything looks perfect in terms of detail, although I honestly couldn't tell you what half of it means without some work... Dear god, when did learning suddenly become a challenge for me? I was an accelerated reader when I was in grade school; why am I borderline illiterate now?

Considering how the Pbp games seem to be run, I think I'll just see what's available for me to join before I start working on a sheet, I guess. Right now, actually playing may be a bit more than any subfreudian fantasies I need to fix (stop looking at me like that!). I still can't fully wrap my head around the idea of a Pbp game, though. You'd think ensuring everyone was present at the same time would be a challenge, and that combat would be odd... Surprised there's not a chatroom or channels or anything like that which could be used.


You need to get yourself and the enemy in right positions to execute the strike you want. Fighting isn't like chopping wood, repeating the same movement over and over isn't going to cut it.

I like what you did there. I really do.

The Warblade kinda reminds me of the kick boxing styles I practiced in when I was in middle school to help me lose weight and to channel my anger from being picked on into beating up people. After performing any routine of attacks, or even basic swinging at my partner or the equipment, we were expected to reflexively get back to our base position before we tried it again, to keep our form up and to make each punch and kick count. After a while, I could actually feel the difference between just swinging wildly at someone whose teeth I wanted to knock out, and setting up each punch or combination, always stoping to right myself after a connection or two.


OotS doesn't do fancy. I seem to recall a half-ogre with spiked chain, spring attack and combat reflexes (who didn't even try to trip his enemies) got called "cheesy", and Elan stating PrCs are for munchkins and clerics. Just for example.

I don't remember Elan's comment, but I do remember that Half-Ogre... Doing 1 thing forever that doesn't involve loads of hits or massive hits bores me, or else I'd try that kind of build. That'd be cool... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EpicFlail)


Tarquin is probably a high/high-ish level fighter with rather poor feat choices.

And he's -still- gonna kick Roy and Xykon's butts.


If you really wanna be big or have a big weapon, here is a thread dedicated to the topic:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7081777

From that thread, as well as from a few linked to it, I have learned 2 things.

1: Person Man and those that he work with are apparently the Pantheon of the Gods of War,

and 2: Not too many easy to access things for weapon damage, although it would be easy for me to Falcon Punch my way to glory if I so choose.

Unfortunately, at least for the basic character that I was going to use (depending on what group takes me in first), I don't think I see anything I can really work with...


The time zone difference will be a killer. We live in Korea, which is UTC-9, and thus 14 hours ahead of Eastern Standard Time. Basically, if you are in the states, day over here is night over there and vice versa. We usually play in the afternoon, which also complicates matters, as you're looking at early morning (assuming you are in the states).

I'm -really-, -realy- sorry, but I'm unfortunately working around when you'd be playing. And a fresh new $1300 bill for College and Car Repairs means I simply can't afford to slack off from the pathetic job that I have. I'm sorry... ;.;


Hey, better 3.5 than 4E, in my opinion.

I don't have any material beyond d20 3rd Party, 3.5, and some 3.0. So enlighten me (asssuming it doesn't take over the thread or anything). What's the difference between 3.5 and 4? Or should I even bother thinking about it?


Yep. But to make things quicker, try making an electronic sheet, like on-

...Greenish beat me to it. Myth-Weavers is VERY good for that.

Yeah, an electronic sheet is a thing you should try. Just need to input the basics (level, ability scores, BAB, Save bonuses, Skill ranks), and it'll calculate most of it.

That's two recommendations, no disapprovals. I suppose if I'm trying new things, I should add Myth-Weavers to the near top of that list.


Of course, of course. Thing is, though, that what I suggested is... Well, it's decent at damage dealing.

Wait... are we serious about a giant golden sword (that may or may not shoot diamonds)? :smallredface:


Mostly, you look for a recruitment thread that looks interesting, post interest, and then make your character.

Let's see how lucky I get with meeting people, then... Hopefully I can find a nice newb accepting gm...


Think of it this way- can you get your opponent to have the same opening twice in a row? No.

Why does your statement immediately make me think of a fighting game? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH09iC8q1EA&feature=relmfu)


Refreshing maneuvers is basically adjusting your footwork and repositioning yourself to use the maneuver again, honestly. That and coaxing your foe into revealing the chink in their defense that you can abuse again.

The second part -definitely- reminds me of the afforementioned commercial's series, but I think I'm getting used to the idea of Maneuvers and Stances essentially being Borderline Supernatural Martial Arts (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SupernaturalMartialArts). Shouldn't let it be a real issue to my roleplaying either way, although it helps to have a better understanding of my concept incase someone gets real curious about it.


Probably Fighter. Like Greenish said, the optimization level in OotS is fairly low.

What if he was an -actual- NPC Warrior? That'd just be swell...

I guess my to-do list for now is

1: Ensure RL does not interfere with my gaming
2: Get a character sheet for a Human Level 1 Warblade (just for practice purposes)
and 3: Find a game group willing to accept a complete newbie.

Wish me luck, feel free to fix any mistakes I've made so far, and thank's for the input.

[Urpriest]

I hadn't realized you were talking about a sword the size of a coliseum. Yeah, there's nothing really like that out there...though probably the closest would involve something like Master of the Unseen Hand (Complete Warrior). It can wield weapons of unlimited size with Telekinesis (which, really, is what the character you displayed is doing: the guy can't fit his hands around the hilt!). Granted, weapons can still only go up to colossal, but that's still big enough to have some fun with.

[meto30]

I'm -really-, -realy- sorry, but I'm unfortunately working around when you'd be playing. And a fresh new $1300 bill for College and Car Repairs means I simply can't afford to slack off from the pathetic job that I have. I'm sorry... ;.;


It's Okay. We're grown up enough to know that D&D is still only a game. Hope you can find a party that's right for you! :)

[Gavinfoxx]

Actually, if you want to explicitly simulate non supernatural martial arts in D&D, the Warblade is the closest class you can use before going to 3rd party sources to simulate the sorts of things that happen in real life fighting. For example, I've always wanted to play a Warblade who is a Federfechter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federfechter), who used to be a Zweihänder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zweih%C3%A4nder)wielding Doppelsöldner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppels%C3%B6ldner)in the Landsknechts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsknechts), who focuses on Iron Heart (with a bit of Stone Dragon), and I would just rename the stances and strikes and counters and stuff with terms from german longsword fencing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_school_of_fencing).

[Greenish]

I'm actually hoping more for a sword about the size ofJack Rakan's (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahou_sensei_negima/v22/c200/8.html).Oh, that large. You want a caster, then, or at least some similar supernatural trick. Master of the Unseen Hand has been mentioned, though a source of Telekinesis is tad tricky.


From my recollection, one side championed the idea that you noted: the separation of church and state fluff and crunch. That a character is the sum of their own actions, not the classes and abilities that make it up. The other side insisted on the opposite ideal, that the character concepts and classes were one in the same, and that you simply couldn't split the two from eachother. A tradition kind of thing. Am I missing anything important, or do I have the basic jist of it?That's pretty much it. We "separationists" (:smalltongue:) don't tend to think of a barbarian as necessarily living out in the woods and getting berserk at enemies.


Which stinks, because a lot of them are pretty cool... I know I read about someone playing a bear druid riding a bear and summoning bears... I could barely contain myself...Oh, that's just druid.


I'm suppost to register with Myth-Weavers before I can create a sheet, right? Just making sure.Yeah, you have to. There are other sites that host sheets, some might not require registration, but I've only used Mythweavers.


I was an accelerated reader when I was in grade school; why am I borderline illiterate now?Specialist language.


You'd think ensuring everyone was present at the same time would be a challenge, and that combat would be odd...There is no particular reason for everyone to be present at the same time when playing PbP. It'd go faster, yeah, but usually PbPs have a rather leisurely pace.


Surprised there's not a chatroom or channels or anything like that which could be used.Of course there are. Say, MapTool does "real time" play beautifully, and even IRC can do quite a bit.


The Warblade kinda reminds me of the kick boxing styles I practiced in when I was in middle school to help me lose weight and to channel my anger from being picked on into beating up people. After performing any routine of attacks, or even basic swinging at my partner or the equipment, we were expected to reflexively get back to our base position before we tried it again, to keep our form up and to make each punch and kick count. After a while, I could actually feel the difference between just swinging wildly at someone whose teeth I wanted to knock out, and setting up each punch or combination, always stoping to right myself after a connection or two.Well, there you go.


I don't remember Elan's comment, but I do remember that Half-Ogre... Doing 1 thing forever that doesn't involve loads of hits or massive hits bores me, or else I'd try that kind of build. That'd be cool... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EpicFlail)Oh, the "chain tripper" is a popular enough trick, and one that can be combined with, say, a warblade or crusader for some variety.

The basic thing is simple. You get a reach weapon that can trip (such as spiked chain or guisarme), Combat Reflexes (PHB feat) and Improved Trip (PHB feat).

Every time someone without reach tries to close to melee distance, you get an Attack of Opportunity (or AoO for short) since they have to leave a square you're threatening. You use this AoO to attempt to trip them. If you succeed, well, they end up prone and away from you, and can't attack you. Oh, and you get a free attack on them when they're down, courtesy of Imp. Trip.

On their next turn, they have to use a move action just to rise up, again provoking an AoO (though you can't use that to trip, since AoO happens before the action that triggered it, so the target is still prone, and you can't trip someone lying in ground). They can step closer (with 5' step, a special non-action) to melee you, but they've missed a turn, taken some damage, and most centrally, can't move to attack anyone else (lest you trip them again).

It only works against enemies with shorter reach who want to melee you and whom you can trip (and there are ways to avoid AoO, and ways to stop enemies from stopping AoO), but it's a decent trick.


And he's -still- gonna kick Roy and Xykon's butts.Running on plot instead of combat rules does that.

Not that Roy or Xykon would be very high op, either.



What's the difference between 3.5 and 4?Well, they're different games. D20-based RPGs, but not very similar ones.


Wait... are we serious about a giant golden sword (that may or may not shoot diamonds)? :smallredface:Golden sword, yeah. Shooting diamonds might be tad trickier to make worth your while.


The second part -definitely- reminds me of the afforementioned commercial's series, but I think I'm getting used to the idea of Maneuvers and Stances essentially being Borderline Supernatural Martial Arts (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SupernaturalMartialArts).Some of them more so, some of them less so.

[The-Mage-King]

Pardon me if I sounded like I wasn't trying to listen. I certainly hope that I've understood at least a little of what I've been told so far. I'd be greatful for any misinterpritation on my part to be fixed.

I suppose the easiest way to explain what I think I'm hearing is with pictures. You guys have given out plenty of good advice, aiming for the average player who wants to be like Cloud Strife (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S938SBf3fUI), at least in terms of weapon usage (the dancing is another matter all together). And while that's probably what I'll be going with for one of my first characters (depending on any role I can get on the play section of the boad), I'm actually hoping more for a sword about the size ofJack Rakan's (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahou_sensei_negima/v22/c200/8.html). However, considering how most sources of larger weapon based combat involve making yourself bigger, or a racial ability/larger sized race/item/feat, all of which seeming to be unable to stack and providing a minor increase in terms of weapon wielding,the incredibly unrealistic and farfetched style that I had in mind would probably best be shelved. Instead, I could use some of the tips given so far and find a party to join.

Have I made an error in my understanding? If so, please let me know.

*Whistles*

That, there, is magic, my friend. Not just skill with a BFS, but Skill+MAGIC BFS. In that case, probably an energy-based spell, refluffed to look like a sword.

Probably something like... Oh, Thunderlance from the Spell Compendium.


I have. The arguments were interesting, at least until some people on both sides were basically insulting each other, which isn't cool.

From my recollection, one side championed the idea that you noted: the separation of church and state fluff and crunch. That a character is the sum of their own actions, not the classes and abilities that make it up. The other side insisted on the opposite ideal, that the character concepts and classes were one in the same, and that you simply couldn't split the two from eachother. A tradition kind of thing. Am I missing anything important, or do I have the basic jist of it?

That's the basics. One side says "EVERY CLASS IS A PROFESSION!11one!"

The other says "No, classes are a metagame concept. My Fighter 2/Ranger 1/Warblade 6 is a soldier who was taught how to hunt [Species], and has studied their psychology."

Though I may be a bit more on one side than the other. :smalltongue:



Which stinks, because a lot of them are pretty cool... I know I read about someone playing a bear druid riding a bear and summoning bears... I could barely contain myself...

Gee. The polar opposite of what most will say. Kinda gets grizzly in those threads, too. But I'm just panda'ing to the base. :smalltongue:




I'm suppost to register with Myth-Weavers before I can create a sheet, right? Just making sure.

Yep.



Considering how the Pbp games seem to be run, I think I'll just see what's available for me to join before I start working on a sheet, I guess. Right now, actually playing may be a bit more than any subfreudian fantasies I need to fix (stop looking at me like that!). I still can't fully wrap my head around the idea of a Pbp game, though. You'd think ensuring everyone was present at the same time would be a challenge, and that combat would be odd... Surprised there's not a chatroom or channels or anything like that which could be used.

Some do. Though PBP is mostly a "post when you can" sort of thing.



The Warblade kinda reminds me of the kick boxing styles I practiced in when I was in middle school to help me lose weight and to channel my anger from being picked on into beating up people. After performing any routine of attacks, or even basic swinging at my partner or the equipment, we were expected to reflexively get back to our base position before we tried it again, to keep our form up and to make each punch and kick count. After a while, I could actually feel the difference between just swinging wildly at someone whose teeth I wanted to knock out, and setting up each punch or combination, always stoping to right myself after a connection or two.

That's pretty much another explaination for maneuvers. Getting your self ready for each form and combo.



I don't have any material beyond d20 3rd Party, 3.5, and some 3.0. So enlighten me (asssuming it doesn't take over the thread or anything). What's the difference between 3.5 and 4? Or should I even bother thinking about it?

Eh. I'm not really the best to talk to about that. Suffice to say that I disagree with most of the design choices for 4E, and dislike the feel of it. Probably best to not think about it right now, at any rate.



That's two recommendations, no disapprovals. I suppose if I'm trying new things, I should add Myth-Weavers to the near top of that list.

Yeah. They're another big forum, and they have PBP games too. Tools, as well.



Wait... are we serious about a giant golden sword (that may or may not shoot diamonds)? :smallredface:

Yep. I was not kidding. Ups the damage by one category, but requires a feat to use properly.


Why does your statement immediately make me think of a fighting game? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH09iC8q1EA&feature=relmfu)

Because I was planning it to? :smalltongue:


The second part -definitely- reminds me of the afforementioned commercial's series, but I think I'm getting used to the idea of Maneuvers and Stances essentially being Borderline Supernatural Martial Arts (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SupernaturalMartialArts). Shouldn't let it be a real issue to my roleplaying either way, although it helps to have a better understanding of my concept incase someone gets real curious about it.

Eh. Other than Desert Wind and Shadow Hand, the disciplines aren't really that close to supernatural. Just being that damn good at swordplay. :smalltongue:



I guess my to-do list for now is

1: Ensure RL does not interfere with my gaming
2: Get a character sheet for a Human Level 1 Warblade (just for practice purposes)
and 3: Find a game group willing to accept a complete newbie.

Wish me luck, feel free to fix any mistakes I've made so far, and thank's for the input.

Heh. That's the beauty of PBP- you can post once a day, if you have a lot of other stuff to do.

Warblade is fairly easy. Be sure to just go with what seems fun. Want to dual wield? Tiger Claw. Brutal two handed attacks? Iron Heart and Stone Dragon.

Samurai? Diamond Mind and Iron Heart.


Anyway, good luck with finding a campaign on these forums.

[INoKnowNames]

I hadn't realized you were talking about a sword the size of a coliseum.

It's certainly no one's fault but my own that I didn't describe my concept a bit further in my first post. Hopefully I won't continue to make mistakes like that...

I think I might have found a game that, by some cosmic coincidence, may have been provided just for me (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227001).... and the 20 or so people that imediately hopped on it before I had a chance to get to it. Still, wish me luck in being able to possibly join!

Maybe I should consider a Core character that brings a strong melee presence, since not all games accept Tome of Battle... The best looking one in terms of abilities seems to be Ranger... if not, Barbarian, maybe Druid or Fighter... All wielding Great Swords! Yes! Thick Blades for Everyone!

I don't have a problem..


It's Okay. We're grown up enough to know that D&D is still only a game. Hope you can find a party that's right for you! :)

Thank you very much for understanding. I hope you guys continue to enjoy your campaign.


Actually, if you want to explicitly simulate non supernatural martial arts in D&D, the Warblade is the closest class you can use before going to 3rd party sources to simulate the sorts of things that happen in real life fighting. For example, I've always wanted to play a Warblade who is a Federfechter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federfechter), who used to be a Zweihänder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zweih%C3%A4nder)wielding Doppelsöldner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppels%C3%B6ldner)in the Landsknechts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsknechts), who focuses on Iron Heart (with a bit of Stone Dragon), and I would just rename the stances and strikes and counters and stuff with terms from german longsword fencing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_school_of_fencing).

That's a pretty good concept, actually.... I'll need to remember that....

[Gavinfoxx]

If you want to use absurdly large weapons, be a Ghost, and TK violent thrust weapons. The best ones use Violent Thrust with Mithral Annulats, like so:

"If you don't want to keep replacing ammunition, you can use a mixture of colossal++ mithral annulats (8d6 damage, 16 pounds) and colossal+++ mithral annulats (12d6 damage, 32 pounds). That can get you 92d6 damage on a violent thrust at caster level 9."

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1118

[Greenish]

Want to dual wield? Tiger Claw. Brutal two handed attacks? Iron Heart and Stone Dragon.Tiger Claw does brutal two-handed attacks pretty well. Perhaps better than Stone Dragon. Iron Heart counters and stances work beautifully with TWF. It's not so cut and dried.

Also, I've a longish post above, in case OP missed it. :smalltongue:

[The-Mage-King]

Tiger Claw does brutal two-handed attacks pretty well. Perhaps better than Stone Dragon. Iron Heart counters and stances work beautifully with TWF. It's not so cut and dried.

Also, I've a longish post above, in case OP missed it. :smalltongue:

Point. But several Tiger Claw strikes say "attack with two weapons", so it's worth pointing out as the best for TWF.

[Greenish]

Point. But several Tiger Claw strikes say "attack with two weapons", so it's worth pointing out as the best for TWF.Desert Wind is probably the best school for TWF, if not available for warblade.

Tiger Claw has exactly one strike (Wolf Fang Strike) that specifies attacking with two weapons, and one another (Pouncing Charge) that allows it.

[Urpriest]

Desert Wind is probably the best school for TWF, if not available for warblade.

Tiger Claw has exactly one strike (Wolf Fang Strike) that specifies attacking with two weapons, and one another (Pouncing Charge) that allows it.

IIRC the Mongoose maneuvers give extra benefit for TWFers.

[The-Mage-King]

Desert Wind is probably the best school for TWF, if not available for warblade.

Tiger Claw has exactly one strike (Wolf Fang Strike) that specifies attacking with two weapons, and one another (Pouncing Charge) that allows it.

...Meant to say "maneuvers" there and not "strikes".

WFS, Dancing Mongoose, PC, Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip, Raging Mongoose...

...Wow, does Tiger Claw have overly overdramatic names. Or at least one.


Guess that fills the quota. :smalltongue:

[Greenish]

IIRC the Mongoose maneuvers give extra benefit for TWFers.Dancing/Raging Mongoose (and Girallon Windmill Fleshrip, for that matter) are boosts, while he said strikes. Yes, the aforementioned three boosts work best with TWF, as does one of the strikes.

I still wouldn't characterize Tiger Claw as TWF-focused school, like many do, though.

[INoKnowNames]

Also, I've a longish post above, in case OP missed it. :smalltongue:

I'm trying to get to all the awesome things I'm hearing about, but everyone's moving like lightning! I'm just too slow! ;.; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loF8Q15b2-I)

[Lady Serpentine]

Edit: One additional, Minor request. How do you guys with the customized avatars make said avatars? 'cause I would prefer a cooler avatar than this one. Preferable one with a massive blade. Maybe very very wide, and possibly being used to shade me. I-don't-have-a-problem-stop-looking-at-me-like-that.

There's a thread to request an avatar be made over in Arts & Crafts, which is where I got my Karyana avatar, and the Color out of Space victim,both of which can be found in my signature.

For the one I have now, I asked Kasanip for a sketch, which she then was kind enough to resize to work as an avatar. You'd need a bit more detail than what you've got there for that, though.

[Metahuman1]

Ok, Build advise.

Barbarian for four levels to start with. Human or Orc. Water Orc if you have the Unearthed Arcana Supplement. Consult the DM about any templates. (The Best one's for this are Mineral Warrior, Half Minotaur, and Dragon Born.)

Your going to take two alternative class features. Spirit Lion totem, at first level, replaces fast movement. This is in complete champion supplement.

And at third level, your going to take the Trap Killer alternative class feature. It's in the Dungeonscape supplement, and replaces Trap Sense.

Now, your also going to max your ranks in your search skill and Listen Skill.

When you get to fourth level, you will add one level of Warblade form the Tome of battle Supplement. From there, you can take levels in anything you like. Things to look at are additional levels of Barbarian and Warblade to keep it really simple.

For feats, here is a Priority list

Power attack. Extra Rage. Adaptive Style. Mage Slayer. Peirce Magical Concealment.

That is the order feats should be taken in as you get feat slots. I tell you this because depending you can have with this build 1-4 feats at lvl 1. It depends on your choice of race and weather or not you take flaws.

This build let's you scout ahead reasonably effectively and take care of traps for the party, let's you make a wall a door on demand with the mountain hammer martial maneuver from Tome Of Battle, which you take when you get to fifth level and take the level of Warblade, and is an effective Melee combatant.

Simple, straight forward, does a couple of things effectively even if it isn't a super master of them.

[Snowbluff]

Second of all, since I've seen how amazing you guys are at coming up with insane character concepts and builds for them, I was hoping I could be given some help in character building.

I'm not too much of a Power Player in that I require myself to be the best at what I do, and better than anyone else in the party, but I would like a good path to follow. Being useful in a couple of areas out of my character's prefered combat role, as well as being at least decent in said combat role, is what I'm hoping to gain.

In keeping with my first request, I suppose a good level 1 character, with a plan for future levels, would be nice. A lot of games have given me a love of the blade. And I feel like it would be easier to use a swordsman than a reality warper anyway. So, while I'm trying to learn, I'd like to use a Warrior (Class can be Fighter, Warblade, Warrior, Commoner with a Sword, Homebrew, anything) to help facilitate that learning. Thematically, there's only one real stipulation to any build I'm given. Max, or even moderate effectiveness or not, my weapon must be a blade bigger than I am, or at least capable of being bigger than me as well as being useable. No jokes unless I make it out of solid gold and give it the ability to shoot diamonds to conpensate for lack of ranged combat. I'll call it "The Conpensator".

Seriously though, if -someone- can make a build enabling you to be able to circle the globe Holy Crap (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=cjp5kfok60st5qcf07vo31qm83&topic=5788.0), then enabling a man to fight with a blade bigger than an orc shouldn't be that hard... And before someone recommends it, I'd really rather not even hear the words "Strong Arm Bracers". Even if it's a dumb option to do, with much more optimal abilities available, and absolutely no logic behind it, the idea of me losing my ability to wield my massive weapon because I'm not wearing my bracelets is simply too much for my feeble mind to get around. Even if the DM decides to take my giant slab of rock from me, I'd rather that than needing a handicap to use the thing in the first place.

My pride's done worse things to me....



"Insane" concepts and builds. Just as me. I'll make your DM squirm.

Bwahahahhahaahha >:D

More seriously, I'd avoid the 'bigger' weapon thing. Monkey Grip (feat, CW I think) is one of the biggest traps available, but it will let you use a bigger weapowithout an item. Bigger swords are most easily achieved by fluff.

Warblade gets my vote for BFSing. Avalanche of Blades is better than Times Stands Still with enough Attack bonus/ways of ignoring AC or Miss Chance.

[INoKnowNames]

I tried to respond to everything I could, but I'm just not fast enough...

If you want absurdly large weapons, be a Ghost, and do this:
I'm sorry, but you kinda lost me after this. :smalleek:


That, there, is magic, my friend. Not just skill with a BFS, but Skill+MAGIC BFS. In that case, probably an energy-based spell, refluffed to look like a sword.

Probably something like... Oh, Thunderlance from the Spell Compendium.

It's not just him, though. Some people don't need Magic to be Epic... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8aFTIj-YsU) although this one's a Cosmic Entity Devowering Alien, so...
As for Jack Rakan, he had already thrown it. It just hadn't fully appeared in it's Battle Ship Slicing Size yet. That he could use it in battle is indeed a possibility... although he (and most of the characters around him) is broken as hell.... And he is a Mage (although the exact details of how he got his power, I think I remember I don't want to know).
I'd settle on being able to by the time I reached the same level Wizards started collecting universes...

Actually, now that I think about it... you think Titanic Weapon Master would make an interesting Custom Prestige Class?


That's the basics. One side says "EVERY CLASS IS A PROFESSION!11one!"

The other says "No, classes are a metagame concept. My Fighter 2/Ranger 1/Warblade 6 is a soldier who was taught how to hunt [Species], and has studied their psychology."

Though I may be a bit more on one side than the other. :smalltongue:

Yeah, way to suppost the people supporting classes rather than characters.


Gee. The polar opposite of what most will say. Kinda gets grizzly in those threads, too. But I'm just panda'ing to the base. :smalltongue:

I think I have a Boo Boo now...


Some do. Though PBP is mostly a "post when you can" sort of thing.

Wouldn't it get complicated if some people were more active than others? Spot Light Stealing Squad is no good. Neither is Goldfish Poop Gang...

I suppose I need to lay off the ADHD and Fruitopia and make sure I don't spam any group I join, just to be safe...


Yeah. They're another big forum, and they have PBP games too. Tools, as well.

Heh. That's the beauty of PBP- you can post once a day, if you have a lot of other stuff to do.

I suppose if this system is so wide spread, I should just trust in it... why am I hesitant over something so simple, and of all times?


Yep. I was not kidding. Ups the damage by one category, but requires a feat to use properly.

1 Feat for a Diamond Shooting Large Gold Zhweihander. Seriously, this has Faustian Deal written -all- over it. In Lamens Terms, how does this work?


Eh. Other than Desert Wind and Shadow Hand, the disciplines aren't really that close to supernatural. Just being that damn good at swordplay. :smalltongue:

Martial Arts that bend the perception between extraordinary and fantasy, and yet no one wants to figure out how to train to use bigger swords... ah well. I guess I'll substitute Skill for Metal.


Warblade is fairly easy. Be sure to just go with what seems fun. Want to dual wield? Tiger Claw. Brutal two handed attacks? Iron Heart and Stone Dragon.

DUAL WIELDING! Can't I use 2 regular swords in each hand and be a combo freak? Or might I be better off with my big ol' blade? Dual Wielding vs Big Freaking Swords... Tiger Claw or Stone Dragon.... Freaking Ying Yangs! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TigerVersusDragon)


Anyway, good luck with finding a campaign on these forums.

Thanks.


Oh, that large. You want a caster, then, or at least some similar supernatural trick. Master of the Unseen Hand has been mentioned, though a source of Telekinesis is tad tricky.
It's always the Casters that seem to get the coolest toys... Other than BAB, is there really anything preventing a Wizard from doing anything a Fighter can, but also being able to cast spells?

That's pretty much it. We "separationists" (:smalltongue:) don't tend to think of a barbarian as necessarily living out in the woods and getting berserk at enemies.
It's a valid way to play one if the person playing wants to. It's simply not the only way.
My Mom and Dad are both part Barbarian, and both regularly rage. But while Dad flies off of his lid, playing the "Hulk Smash" route, Mom's probably even more intimidating. You'll know when she's considering you an issue, but you never know until she decides to let you know whether or not you've pissed her off. ;.;
One Barbarion with Angry Rage, One Barbarian with Ninja Rage.

Oh, that's just druid.
I get that a Bear can cast spells if he has the Natural Spell feat. And I get that there are summon spells. I never payed attention to all of the levels, but if a T-Rex can be summoned, then somewhere on the lines a Bear is probably summonable.
I only wonder about whether or not a Bear would be capable of supporting another Bear's weight. Reminds me of something else. Someone with a Rail Gun of People sitting on eachother, only for them to dismount eachother to move the entire thing, essentially giving who ever's on top the ability to go where-ever they want. And it just seems odd...

There is no particular reason for everyone to be present at the same time when playing PbP. It'd go faster, yeah, but usually PbPs have a rather leisurely pace.
So no speed running, that's for sure. Still, I really shouldn't judge anything unless I've done my homework on it... Random question: Would it be ill form to apply at 2 or more different PBPs, incase you thought you might not make it into 1?

Of course there are. Say, MapTool does "real time" play beautifully, and even IRC can do quite a bit.
Had to give this a Google. The fact that PBP still gets used when there's something like this says a lot...

Oh, the "chain tripper" is a popular enough trick, and one that can be combined with, say, a warblade or crusader for some variety.
That's something I'd consider learning how to do.... But what would you do if the enemy decided to attack you dirrectly (after having been tripped up)? That wouldn't be any good...

Running on plot instead of combat rules does that.
Not that Roy or Xykon would be very high op, either.
Xykon's an Epic Lich Sorceror, though... does he need to be maximized to deal with someone like Roy? Heck, V had 2 Epics on his side and wielded Wizard Power, and X beat V so hard, V's Wisdom score improved....
Tarquin's got Genre Savyness and Strength... I bet he's got some good skills on him, no matter what his op is....
I'll probably be thinking about the upcoming 3 way fight while I'm at school now....

Golden sword, yeah. Shooting diamonds might be tad trickier to make worth your while.
.... Could it shoot Arrows? If so, I want someone to take me back in time so I can change my Christmas List!

Some of them more so, some of them less so.
Could a Sword Sage fill up all of his moves with non magicy abilities and be just as mundane as a Warblade? Random Questions are Random...

Tome of Battle Dual Wielding Conversation
This is what it feels like in nature, observing amazing beasts of the wild be... amazing... It's always fun to see the big boys play.

There's a thread to request an avatar be made over in Arts & Crafts, which is where I got my Karyana avatar, and the Color out of Space victim,both of which can be found in my signature.
And they just do this kind of thing for free? (advertising certainly is not an issue, ever) Cool...

For the one I have now, I asked Kasanip for a sketch, which she then was kind enough to resize to work as an avatar. You'd need a bit more detail than what you've got there for that, though.
I'd like to try to draw it myself if I can (just for laughs to see how badly my skill with a pencil has become since 10 years of unuse), but I can provide plenty of detail once I've seen the abomination I attempt to create and forcibly put it down with fire.

Ok, Build advise.

Barbarian for four levels to start with. Human or Orc. Water Orc if you have the Unearthed Arcana Supplement. Consult the DM about any templates. (The Best one's for this are Mineral Warrior, Half Minotaur, and Dragon Born.)

Your going to take two alternative class features. Spirit Lion totem, at first level, replaces fast movement. This is in complete champion supplement.

And at third level, your going to take the Trap Killer alternative class feature. It's in the Dungeonscape supplement, and replaces Trap Sense.

Now, your also going to max your ranks in your search skill and Listen Skill.

When you get to fourth level, you will add one level of Warblade form the Tome of battle Supplement. From there, you can take levels in anything you like. Things to look at are additional levels of Barbarian and Warblade to keep it really simple.

For feats, here is a Priority list

Power attack. Extra Rage. Adaptive Style. Mage Slayer. Peirce Magical Concealment.

That is the order feats should be taken in as you get feat slots. I tell you this because depending you can have with this build 1-4 feats at lvl 1. It depends on your choice of race and weather or not you take flaws.

This build let's you scout ahead reasonably effectively and take care of traps for the party, let's you make a wall a door on demand with the mountain hammer martial maneuver from Tome Of Battle, which you take when you get to fifth level and take the level of Warblade, and is an effective Melee combatant.

Simple, straight forward, does a couple of things effectively even if it isn't a super master of them.
While I don't think I'm ready to attempt Multiclassing just yet (even if it's just between two melee characters), this sounds like a nice build.
Also, This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yslSZQWOvwQ) is a pretty good example of a non magic person fighting the way I want to fight... although yeah, the basic concept simply isn't happening without a little magic involved, at the least in the item itself, if somehow not in how the user would use it.... I think it'd make a decent prestige...
While I speak of prestige classes, and it's a good chance it's simply from my lack of experience and sudden inability to read, but Master of the Unseen hand seems hard to get into for a melee combatant, and un-need for a magic user... it feels awkward....

"Insane" concepts and builds. Just as me. I'll make your DM squirm.

Bwahahahhahaahha >:D

More seriously, I'd avoid the 'bigger' weapon thing. Monkey Grip (feat, CW I think) is one of the biggest traps available, but it will let you use a bigger weapowithout an item. Bigger swords are most easily achieved by fluff.

Warblade gets my vote for BFSing. Avalanche of Blades is better than Times Stands Still with enough Attack bonus/ways of ignoring AC or Miss Chance.

I suppose the only thing I really want to do that's insane is the Grand Dragon Impaling Blade, which I guess would have to be homebrewed if I really wanted it.

I don't even have a DM Yet! Don't give me ideas to make me scare them away! XD

And while Avalanche of Blades might be capable of being made better, I honestly can say that I feel much cooler with the pre ass kicking one liner Time Stands Still made me think off, and I've yet to think of one for Avalanche of Blades.

For now, I think I'ma just try to get a handful of basic character sheets made. Barbarian (unarmed and scratching people like she had claws), Warblades (one 2 handed and one dual wielding), Ranger (combat styles can't be used for 2 handed weaponry, so Ranger would have to be doing dual wielding if I wanted it, since I'm not ranged unless I cast spells), and maybe deciding which spell users I'd play as if I needed to. Probably just level 1 unless I have a lot of free time. And no Multiclassing for now. Barely know regular classes enough... I think Ranger's going to get my primary focus when I get back from College tonight...
And now I'm going to risk being late for work because I'm talking about D&D. Do I have a problem?

[Snowbluff]

And while Avalanche of Blades might be capable of being made better, I honestly can say that I feel much cooler with the pre ass kicking one liner Time Stands Still made me think off, and I've yet to think of one for Avalanche of Blades.



Cool, it's good to know you have your priorities straight. :smallcool:

[INoKnowNames]

Cool, it's good to know you have your priorities straight. :smallcool:

It's not the best pre-butt-kicking-one-liner, and I only thought it up in responce to fighting a rival soldier after several clashes, but still...

"I've known you for a while. It's been ages since the first time we've faced each other. And I've finally embraced my true potential.

You stand here, willing to face me in battle, yet you still don't understand the difference between you and I...

You've fought even more people than I have. Your blade certainly has more blood on it than mine does. But you truly have no idea what it means to be bred for war.

I've watched how you battle. You're a coward. You still cling to your life, unprepared to die a warrior's death on the field of battle. That sword of yours is a pass time, not a way of life.

I was born for war. I live to fight. I live to die. Metal surges through my blood. Death lies in my soul. My blade is a part of my being. I trust this sword more than I trust my arms and legs.

But talk is cheap; let me show you the difference between you and I.

For you, Battle is a chaotic experience, unpredictable and unruly. I see you sweat in fear, knowing it could be the end for you at any time, anywhere. And your life just seems to pass you by before you've even realised it.

But for me.... when I'm fighting... Time. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PunctuatedForEmphasis) Stands. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlashStep) Still. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BladeSpam)"

And it would just be -terrible- if I tried that with Avalanche of Blades and missed before I -really- started doing damage.

[Gavinfoxx]

I'm sorry, but you kinda lost me after this. :smalleek:


Here's the spell Telekinesis http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/telekinesis.htm

Pay attention to this bit:

"Violent Thrust

Alternatively, the spell energy can be spent in a single round. You can hurl one object or creature per caster level (maximum 15) that are within range and all within 10 feet of each other toward any target within 10 feet per level of all the objects. You can hurl up to a total weight of 25 pounds per caster level (maximum 375 pounds at 15th level).

You must succeed on attack rolls (one per creature or object thrown) to hit the target with the items, using your base attack bonus + your Intelligence modifier (if a wizard) or Charisma modifier (if a sorcerer). Weapons cause standard damage (with no Strength bonus; note that arrows or bolts deal damage as daggers of their size when used in this manner). Other objects cause damage ranging from 1 point per 25 pounds (for less dangerous objects) to 1d6 points of damage per 25 pounds (for hard, dense objects)."

Now... this lets you throw absurdly large objects, as long as they aren't too heavy.... and remember, weapons cause standard damage. You just need to find absurdly large weapons that, due to their size, deal ridiculous amounts of damage, but are very, very light. AND you need a way to TK more than simply a few times a day. So how to solve this? Find the most obscure exotic but yet light weapon out there, using Mithril, the Epic weapon size variant rules for the REALLY BIG weapons, and you get some variant of the Ghost template (ie, you are undead), to get lots and lots of uses of TK. Make sense?

[Greenish]

Some people don't need Magic to be Epic...This is 3.5. Yes, they do.:smallamused:


1 Feat for a Diamond Shooting Large Gold Zhweihander. Seriously, this has Faustian Deal written -all- over it. In Lamens Terms, how does this work?I don't know about "Lamens", but you take the feat, buy the sword, and that's it (apart from diamond shooting, for that you might have to cram a Rod of Wonder to the sword's wand chamber).


DUAL WIELDING! Can't I use 2 regular swords in each hand and be a combo freak?You can use one regular (one-handed or light, that is) sword in each hand. Doesn't work that good with strikes.

In fact, doesn't work that well in general. TWF needs several feats and a nasty case of MAD (Multi Attribute Dependency), and still doesn't work as well as two-handers. You can make it work, but it takes work.


It's always the Casters that seem to get the coolest toys... Other than BAB, is there really anything preventing a Wizard from doing anything a Fighter can, but also being able to cast spells?Nothing prevents wizard from doing anything a fighter can better than the fighter except their high int score (they can usually figure out a better way to solve their problems).


Random question: Would it be ill form to apply at 2 or more different PBPs, incase you thought you might not make it into 1?I sure hope not, I'm actually playing in several ones at the moment.


That's something I'd consider learning how to do.... But what would you do if the enemy decided to attack you dirrectly (after having been tripped up)? That wouldn't be any good...Well, if you were, say, a crusader or knight, you could stop them from moving closer to attack you. If you were psionic warrior, you'd have tripped them from so far they couldn't do it either. Finally, well, that's why you have armour, hitpoints and miss chances.


.... Could it shoot Arrows? If so, I want someone to take me back in time so I can change my Christmas List!There's a mace somewhere that shooted arrows… might be a sword too.


Could a Sword Sage fill up all of his moves with non magicy abilities and be just as mundane as a Warblade?Sure.


Also, This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yslSZQWOvwQ) is a pretty good example of a non magic person fighting the way I want to fight...While higher level warriors in D&D are quite superhuman, they usually aren't so… over the top. Some other system (BESM, Exalted, M&M, Savage Worlds, etc.) might fit your ideas better.


While I speak of prestige classes, and it's a good chance it's simply from my lack of experience and sudden inability to read, but Master of the Unseen hand seems hard to get into for a melee combatant, and un-need for a magic user... it feels awkward....That's an accurate enough summary of MotUH.


Ranger (combat styles can't be used for 2 handed weaponryIf you've access to Dragon Magazines, there are other combat styles than the two core ones.

If you've access to Dragon Magazine Compendium, well, there's diopsid…

[The-Mage-King]

I tried to respond to everything I could, but I'm just not fast enough...

I'm sorry, but you kinda lost me after this. :smalleek:


Simply put, Ghosts can spam telekinisis. And thus spam swords as projectiles.

Regardless of size.

You see where this is going.


It's not just him, though. Some people don't need Magic to be Epic... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8aFTIj-YsU) although this one's a Cosmic Entity Devowering Alien, so...

Heh. Counts as magic, I'd say.


As for Jack Rakan, he had already thrown it. It just hadn't fully appeared in it's Battle Ship Slicing Size yet. That he could use it in battle is indeed a possibility... although he (and most of the characters around him) is broken as hell.... And he is a Mage (although the exact details of how he got his power, I think I remember I don't want to know).

OF COURSE!

Regardless, I'd probably place Rakan as a Sorcerer/Unarmed Swordsage or something, who spams bigass swords. Maybe something with the Sizing property...




I'd settle on being able to by the time I reached the same level Wizards started collecting universes...

Hm... Well, wizards start with the universe collection around level 16... And the spell I mentioned is level 4, meaning a Sorc would be about level 8 to get it...


Actually, now that I think about it... you think Titanic Weapon Master would make an interesting Custom Prestige Class?

Yes. Yes, it would.


Excuse me.



I think I have a Boo Boo now...

Well, be glad I'm not gonna drop more puns on you. :smalltongue:



1 Feat for a Diamond Shooting Large Gold Zhweihander. Seriously, this has Faustian Deal written -all- over it. In Lamens Terms, how does this work?


Laymans terms? You get yourself an Alchemical Gold large Bastard Sword (better than a greatsword, IMO, because you'd need a feat for the one handed use anyway, and it gives you some variety if you need to grab something) for... What's the price for a larger weapon, again? X1.3, or so?

Anyway, the price of a large bastard sword, plus 7000 gp. Diamond shooting comes from installing a wand chamber and putting a wand that lets you put diamonds in it.

Oh, and the other thing? That feat is "Exotic weapon prof. (Heavy [WEAPON])". So if you have a different heavy material in that same weapon, you could use it.




DUAL WIELDING! Can't I use 2 regular swords in each hand and be a combo freak? Or might I be better off with my big ol' blade? Dual Wielding vs Big Freaking Swords... Tiger Claw or Stone Dragon.... Freaking Ying Yangs! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TigerVersusDragon)

Eh. Dual wielding, to be honest, is... Sub-par in 3.5. At least unless you have a source of bonus damage...


It's always the Casters that seem to get the coolest toys... Other than BAB, is there really anything preventing a Wizard from doing anything a Fighter can, but also being able to cast spells?

Not even BAB can stop it.



So no speed running, that's for sure. Still, I really shouldn't judge anything unless I've done my homework on it... Random question: Would it be ill form to apply at 2 or more different PBPs, incase you thought you might not make it into 1?

Nah. I'm in... What, 7? A number of them, at any rate. Perfectly fine to apply to a few.


Had to give this a Google. The fact that PBP still gets used when there's something like this says a lot...

Yeah. It says that people are lazy and don't want to schedule an online game. :smalltongue:


That's something I'd consider learning how to do.... But what would you do if the enemy decided to attack you dirrectly (after having been tripped up)? That wouldn't be any good...

Murderify him.

Duh! :smalltongue:



.... Could it shoot Arrows? If so, I want someone to take me back in time so I can change my Christmas List!

Yes. Arrows. Made out of acid. See: Wand Chamber with wand that has the effect you want.


Could a Sword Sage fill up all of his moves with non magicy abilities and be just as mundane as a Warblade? Random Questions are Random...

Yep. Diamond Mind, Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw, a small amount of Desert Wind, Setting Sun, and about half of Shadow Hand are perfectly non-supernatural.


This is what it feels like in nature, observing amazing beasts of the wild be... amazing... It's always fun to see the big boys play.

Heh. Wait until it's "Monkday". Or when people post "Wizards are underpowered" and aren't being sarcastic.

...Come to think of it, there hasn't been a monk thread in a couple of weeks...


While I speak of prestige classes, and it's a good chance it's simply from my lack of experience and sudden inability to read, but Master of the Unseen hand seems hard to get into for a melee combatant, and un-need for a magic user... it feels awkward....

Yeah, it is. Kinda at the right point for a low-op Gish, in my opinion, though.

Alternatively, Ardent gish, with a bit of adaptation to the class for psionics.




For now, I think I'ma just try to get a handful of basic character sheets made. Barbarian (unarmed and scratching people like she had claws), Warblades (one 2 handed and one dual wielding), Ranger (combat styles can't be used for 2 handed weaponry, so Ranger would have to be doing dual wielding if I wanted it, since I'm not ranged unless I cast spells), and maybe deciding which spell users I'd play as if I needed to. Probably just level 1 unless I have a lot of free time. And no Multiclassing for now. Barely know regular classes enough... I think Ranger's going to get my primary focus when I get back from College tonight...


Reasonable sample range. As was mentioned, a couple of Dragon Magazines have extra ranger styles, and it wouldn't hurt one much to spec for zweihander use while going with the archery style. Never hurts to have a backup plan, after all.


For casters, I'd suggest a fixed-list caster, like the Warmage. There are only a few official ones, but they cover their bases fairly well.

[INoKnowNames]

Note to self: There is a big difference in GreatAxeFighter -GUYS- and GreatAxeFighter -GIRLS- in terms of appearance. Learn it.

I know I'm not the only one to ever make that mistake before... Real Life especially makes it hard sometimes, and with some fictional characters, you may never really know....

[Lady Serpentine]

Yes. Arrows. Made out of acid. See: Wand Chamber with wand that has the effect you want.


I'm betting that, no matter how big the sword they use it, there's no provision for a Staff Chamber, is there? Or putting multiple Wand Chambers all through the blade?

[Metahuman1]

Regarding my build suggestion:

The simple answer, thought I'm loathed to suggest it, would be to stave off the Warblade dip. Take the build as just straight Barbarian for a couple of extra levels, until you feel comfortable with the mechanics enough to try multiyclassing.

I promise, you'll see the value of it the first time your in combat after you've taken that dip though. But like I said, it can be put off. Barbarian is a solid, simple, Tier 4 class all by itself. Just remove and post pone the Adaptive Style feat and wait till you feel like taking that level of Warblade.

[INoKnowNames]

I did have a bunch of things I want to respond to, and I think I will in a bit, but I think I've finally got a game!

Apparently, they're about to deal with a group of ogres! Should be fun.

I was considering sticking with my guns, ie either a Warblade, Ranger, or Barbarian, but the group already has

A Noble (who may or may not be an Archer)
A Rogue (hate being Rogues anyway)
A Paladin (I wonder how close to acting Evil I can get, just to mess with him, although I'll probably stick to my Chaotic Neutralness)
And a Cleric (who is also a Minotaur).

I feel like I might want to try being a Sorceror to help cover up for the lack of an arcane bit in the party. Or at least a Sword Sage. Although if they don't mind, hopefully Warblade (BFS style, I decided I'd prefer strong hits to multiple hits on this 1st one) or Barbarian (If someone can help me figure out how to do damage by impaling people on my hands like I'm pretending to be Wolverine (Wolverine Claws not included), I would love that) might potentally still be on the table.

In my messaging with the DM, he said to stick to 3.5 material, and I'd need to make sure I ask before I try anything else. But Tome of Battle is also open (he said he wants to get the use of the rules for that anyway), so at this point I need to decide what I feel like doing that might work well with the group, and get my character made.

Also, I finally registered on Myth-Weavers! Hopefully I'll have a prototype character by Midnight.

Level 3, WBL Wealth (whatever that means), No Halflings exist (although I'll probably be Human anyway), Dragon Lance Setting, and.... well that's all I've got. I'ma go see if I can bug a few of them and figure out exactly where I might be spawning.

While I'm here, before I start trying to work on the sheets, I'ma test out the Dice Roller.

1d6
3d6[/rollv]
[roll]3d6+5
4d6b3

And for a serious test,
[roll]4d6[/rollv]

... That did not seem to work as planned.

[The-Mage-King]

:smallconfused:

...Dragonlance. With ToB allowed.


Do what I've dreamed of!


Kender. Warblade (or Swordsage). :smalltongue:



Doooooo eeeeettttt! [/BADIDEA]

But seriously, Swordsage is a good idea. Be sure to take Adaptive Style as your first feat.

Level 3 WBL is... Well, how much gold you start with. The DMG has the table, on page... 135. Basically, you get 2700 gp to work with.




@C'Nor: Sadly, no.


...Though I now have an additional idea for homebrew... :smallamused:

[Metahuman1]

Seconding the sword sage idea. Take Unarmed Variant, Kung Fu Genius, Shadow Blade Strike, Weapons Finnesse to reduce the number of attribute dependency's.


If you go with the Sorcerer, focus on Buffs and sells that require the enemy to make a save or die, lose the encounter, or suck.

Examples at low levels are

Grease, Color Spray, Web, Glitter Dust, Obscuring Mist, Mirror Image, Alter Self.



If you go with the Warblade, Take Adaptive Style and use Stone Dragon, Iron Heart, and maybe a bit of either Tiger Claw or White Raven. Diamond Mind for Emerald Razor Strike and the counters that let you sub a Concentration Check for a Reflex and Will saves wouldn't go Amiss either.


And for the Barbarian, use the build I outline earlier, you'll be fine.

[Greenish]

Seconding the sword sage idea. Take Unarmed Variant, Kung Fu Genius, Shadow Blade Strike, Weapons Finnesse to reduce the number of attribute dependency's.Both some of swordsage's maneuvers and class features scale off of Wis, so I don't think Kung Fu Genius is that useful for reducing MAD.


Anyhow, forum dice roller only works on PbP sub-forums.

[Edit]: Also, low level warblade hardly needs Adaptive Style.

[Metahuman1]

He's taking Warblade at somewhat later levels in my suggested build. Thus the stacking of martial adept progression makes Adaptive Style a good thing to pick up shortly after adding Warblade.

And What's less MAD?

Dex,Int,Con

Or

Dex,Wis,Con,Int?

Kung Fu Genius lets you drop Wis from the Que, letting you use Int in it's place, Which you Need for skills anyway.

[Greenish]

He's taking Warblade at somewhat later levels in my suggested build. Thus the stacking of martial adept progression makes Adaptive Style a good thing to pick up shortly after adding Warblade.Hmm…

Nope, still not seeing the point.

And What's less MAD?

Dex,Int,Con

Or

Dex,Wis,Con,Int?

Kung Fu Genius lets you drop Wis from the Que, letting you use Int in it's place, Which you Need for skills anyway.You don't need Int. Sure, it's nice, but 6/level skills gets you most of what you'd want, more often than not.

Wisdom might only power a handful of great skills (including Setting Sun key skill), add damage when using maneuvers of certain school and set the DCs for Shadow Hand maneuvers, but at least you're not burning one of your few feats for it.

[INoKnowNames]

I don't know what I want to do first for the prototype character now!

I did check some stats, though. This is what I've got so far.


Let's try that one more time, since I don't seem to want to fail at life.

1st Set of 6.

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]
[roll4]
[roll5]

(4d6b3)[12]
(4d6b3)[9]
(4d6b3)[14]
(4d6b3)[13]
(4d6b3)[12]
(4d6b3)[11]

2nd Set of 6.

[roll6]
[roll7]
[roll8]
[roll9]
[roll10]
[roll11]

(4d6b3)[13]
(4d6b3)[17]
(4d6b3)[15]
(4d6b3)[16]
(4d6b3)[10]
(4d6b3)[11]

Gotta check my posting log to see where I got my hp roles, but I remember getting a 7, 11, and 7. 1st Level is Maxed, and a +3 Con mod means I'd have 39 hp. Armor Bonus of 4 and Damage Reduction 1... I feel like a Tank...

Here's what I've got so far. (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=358226)

The Sword Sage might be a better idea, and I guess I can try to figure it out and decide everything tomorrow, but my massive freudian complex demands I try Warblade first, and if it works then never turn back. Power Attack, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword), and hopefully I can get a certain 3rd Party Feat enabled. Might have trouble choosing if not. I'ma cut somebody up!

Yeah, all I need now is proof-reading, a little ruling from the DM (if not good, then I need to decide an additional feat), and to decide my Special Attacks. Since I start at level 3, I can learn 5 level 2-1 Maneuvers from Diamond Mind, Iron Heart, Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw, and White Raven, right? Level 1 Stance, though, since no level 2 stances exist. I went ahead and picked a few, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to change them around a bit. Although of all the stances, Punishing Stance looks awesome...

Feel free to correct any errors. I think they already have a Wizard, and someone who might be a rogue crafting thing. From what I read of the story so far, he reminds me of a non-evil, non-hedgehog hating Eggman... But anywho, between them, a paladin, and a cleric, I feel like I can be comfortable in melee combat. Although I will make a Sword Sage next. Tome of Battle is -so- awesome...

[Greenish]

Gotta check my posting log to see where I got my hp roles, but I remember getting a 7, 11, and 7. 1st Level is Maxed, and a +3 Con mod means I'd have 39 hp. Armor Bonus of 4 and Damage Reduction 1... I feel like a Tank...

Here's what I've got so far. (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=358226)Where does the damage reduction come from, and what pierces it? And where do you get the rest of your armour bonus, I only see Leather armour listed there?


The Sword Sage might be a better idea, and I guess I can try to figure it out and decide everything tomorrow, but my massive freudian complex demands I try Warblade first, and if it works then never turn back. Power Attack, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword)Greatsword is bigger than bastard sword. :smallconfused:


Since I start at level 3, I can learn 5 level 2-1 Maneuvers from Diamond Mind, Iron Heart, Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw, and White Raven, right?You can learn four 1st level maneuvers and one 4th level maneuver.

[Edit]: Your bastard sword damage should be 1d10+3 (or +4 if you're two-handing it).

[INoKnowNames]

Where does the damage reduction come from, and what pierces it? And where do you get the rest of your armour bonus, I only see Leather armour listed there?

Sorry about that. I only just recently learned that we get to use Defense Bonus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/defenseBonus.htm) and Armor as Damage Reduction (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/defenseBonus.htm).


Greatsword is bigger than bastard sword. :smallconfused:

I'm still trying to pick out my Feats and Specials, and there's a feat that looks -really- cool, and sounds even cooler, that requires proficiency with a certain Weapon, and the Bastard Sword was one such weapon. Although I don't remember it off of the top of my head...

Any assistance picking feats would be great. Power Attack as a human bonus, and 2 more feats for level 1 and 3, assuming I don't stick with Exotic Weapon Proficiency (although I kinda like it from a roleplaying perspective, too. Being able to grasp the fundamentals of any odd melee weapon after having played with it for a good hour...)


You can learn four 1st level maneuvers and one 4th level maneuver.

Eep.... Pretty good chance I've got no idea what I'm picking and why I'm able to pick it, then. Any suggestions?

Edit: I was under the assumption that, so long as my initiator was high enough, I could pick any maneuver within that level or belower, provided I have enough other maneuvers behind it. How flawed is this thinking?


[Edit]: Your bastard sword damage should be 1d10+3 (or +4 if you're two-handing it).

How do you figure out that plus, if you don't mind me asking? Found it. +Str to melee or thrown damage, +1.5 Str when 2 Handed. Nifty.

[INoKnowNames]

Here's the spell Telekinesis http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/telekinesis.htm

Pay attention to this bit:

"Violent Thrust

Alternatively, the spell energy can be spent in a single round. You can hurl one object or creature per caster level (maximum 15) that are within range and all within 10 feet of each other toward any target within 10 feet per level of all the objects. You can hurl up to a total weight of 25 pounds per caster level (maximum 375 pounds at 15th level).

You must succeed on attack rolls (one per creature or object thrown) to hit the target with the items, using your base attack bonus + your Intelligence modifier (if a wizard) or Charisma modifier (if a sorcerer). Weapons cause standard damage (with no Strength bonus; note that arrows or bolts deal damage as daggers of their size when used in this manner). Other objects cause damage ranging from 1 point per 25 pounds (for less dangerous objects) to 1d6 points of damage per 25 pounds (for hard, dense objects)."

Now... this lets you throw absurdly large objects, as long as they aren't too heavy.... and remember, weapons cause standard damage. You just need to find absurdly large weapons that, due to their size, deal ridiculous amounts of damage, but are very, very light. AND you need a way to TK more than simply a few times a day. So how to solve this? Find the most obscure exotic but yet light weapon out there, using Mithril, the Epic weapon size variant rules for the REALLY BIG weapons, and you get some variant of the Ghost template (ie, you are undead), to get lots and lots of uses of TK. Make sense?

I get it. I kinda like that. Definitely something I've written down to consider. Although Telekinesis sounds like it would be an end in and of itself, not simply a means to that end. If I can find a way to spam it, I might go to town simply floating over people and throwing everything at or into each other.

..... Are there rules for playing as Animals? I suddenly have the intense desire to play as a White Hedgehog Sorceror or Wizard. Preferably Sorceror, so I can just spam Telekinesis. And maybe Magic Missile.


This is 3.5. Yes, they do.:smallamused:

I've made my peace with it, but can't say I approve all too much.


I don't know about "Lamens", but you take the feat, buy the sword, and that's it (apart from diamond shooting, for that you might have to cram a Rod of Wonder to the sword's wand chamber).

I ment to say Layman's Terms. I'm not a complete and total hick (I did make an A in my College English this term); I just goofed.

What feat am I taking, how much does a Gold Great/Bastard Sword Cost (not yet factoring a different size), what's a Rod of Wonder, and do all swords have Wand Chambers? 'cause I want this. I want this a lot.


You can use one regular (one-handed or light, that is) sword in each hand. Doesn't work that good with strikes.

In fact, doesn't work that well in general. TWF needs several feats and a nasty case of MAD (Multi Attribute Dependency), and still doesn't work as well as two-handers. You can make it work, but it takes work.

I'm actually having trouble deciding what feats to take for my character. I can't decide on the Warblade because I can't figure out in what dirrection at what time I want him to go (and I should consider asking 1-2 questions about the combat type of the game), and the hypothetical sword sage simply has too many options to plan for. Wild Cohort, Adaptive Style, Shadow Blade, Two Weapon Fighting, Extra Readied Maneuver, and that's just off of the top of my head, which means there must be plenty more that I'm missing...

I'd like to make Two Weapon Fighting work... I was thinking Shadow Blade + Weapon Finesse, as well as the Two Weapon Fighting Line for lots of attacks mainly keyed from Dexterity.


Nothing prevents wizard from doing anything a fighter can better than the fighter except their high int score (they can usually figure out a better way to solve their problems).

I thought it was just the Monk that gets picked on around here... Poor Fighter... Poor any class that can't snap their fingers and bend the laws of reality...

I sure hope not, I'm actually playing in several ones at the moment.

Well, if you were, say, a crusader or knight, you could stop them from moving closer to attack you. If you were psionic warrior, you'd have tripped them from so far they couldn't do it either. Finally, well, that's why you have armour, hitpoints and miss chances.


There's a mace somewhere that shooted arrows… might be a sword too.

I wouldn't need to worry about carrying a ranged weapon if I had a weapon that could fire projectiles for me.... I wanna figure out how to do/get this! 'cause it would be awesome!


While higher level warriors in D&D are quite superhuman, they usually aren't so… over the top.

You'd think there'd be room for that kinda thing... Why do I think of the phrase "Go Big or Go Home"? I really don't even know where I heard it.


If you've access to Dragon Magazines, there are other combat styles than the two core ones.

If you've access to Dragon Magazine Compendium, well, there's diopsid…

I checked the copies that I have, but I don't think I have the right ones/can't find it. And it makes me sad... Then again, I couldn't find a bloody spider crawling on my cup...


Simply put, Ghosts can spam telekinisis. And thus spam swords as projectiles.

Regardless of size.

You see where this is going.

Actually, when you put it that way, I'm thinking less Giant Sword Slashing and more Za Warudo.


Heh. Counts as magic, I'd say.

It's not magic; he's an abomination unto the universe. His Challenge Rating when not transformed is like 50!! Come to think of it, what happens when he eats you? Nothing ever comes out... Could a Wish bring you out of the black hole that leads into nothingness?


Regardless, I'd probably place Rakan as a Sorcerer/Unarmed Swordsage or something, who spams bigass swords. Maybe something with the Sizing property...

Psh. He's got to be come combination of classes at the same time. Super Fighter, Super Magician, and Crazy-Funny as heck. He's part Fighter, Part Wizard, Part Bard, easy. Screw it, he's just plain broken.

And what's the Sizing property?


Hm... Well, wizards start with the universe collection around level 16... And the spell I mentioned is level 4, meaning a Sorc would be about level 8 to get it...

Seriously, this game does not favor anyone who champions physical prowess over magic...


Yes. Yes, it would.

Excuse me.

?


Well, be glad I'm not gonna drop more puns on you. :smalltongue:

Oh God, you had -more- remaining!?!


Laymans terms? You get yourself an Alchemical Gold large Bastard Sword (better than a greatsword, IMO, because you'd need a feat for the one handed use anyway, and it gives you some variety if you need to grab something) for... What's the price for a larger weapon, again? X1.3, or so?

Anyway, the price of a large bastard sword, plus 7000 gp. Diamond shooting comes from installing a wand chamber and putting a wand that lets you put diamonds in it.

Oh, and the other thing? That feat is "Exotic weapon prof. (Heavy [WEAPON])". So if you have a different heavy material in that same weapon, you could use it.

Wand Chamber sounds.... odd. Not sure how that works. Overall, I'm still very eager to attempt this. Just for the Bling Bling... Also, I can get proficiency for specifically a Heavy Weapon? Being able to pick the exact weapon with the proficiency is neat...


Eh. Dual wielding, to be honest, is... Sub-par in 3.5. At least unless you have a source of bonus damage...

But... But... But.... Sexy Shoeless God of War..... ;.;


Murderify him.

Duh! :smalltongue:

Is there a way you could do "This is My Area I'm guarding, you have to go through me" and "Ha ha, you took my trap and got to me, so now I can kill you" at the same time? Or would you have to switch to a closer weapon and hope you can live through whatever they do? I could have sworn I read that most reach weapons can't touch infront of you at all, so you'd have to do something...


Yes. Arrows. Made out of acid. See: Wand Chamber with wand that has the effect you want.

Where are all of these cool toys from? I want some cool toys... A Wand Chamber... I swear there's something I saw in a movie that reminds me of this. You'd have a big blade, open the handle and put the ammo in (in this case, the Wand), and use it as a gun until the ammo ran out. Then you'd pop the round out, and reload another one. Or cut your target up if they were close enough. How far away is my mental image from the rules that I'm almost sarcastically calling reality?


Heh. Wait until it's "Monkday". Or when people post "Wizards are underpowered" and aren't being sarcastic.

Can't Wizards kind of do -anything-, even with the Game Master monitoring what he does? How can they remotely be underpowered?


Yeah, it is. Kinda at the right point for a low-op Gish, in my opinion, though.

Alternatively, Ardent gish, with a bit of adaptation to the class for psionics.

What's a Gish?


Reasonable sample range. As was mentioned, a couple of Dragon Magazines have extra ranger styles, and it wouldn't hurt one much to spec for zweihander use while going with the archery style. Never hurts to have a backup plan, after all.

I might not have the right book. I think I have up to like 200ish. I suppose using my feats for a big ol' sword and having bow combat style for range wouldn't be so bad... But man, Rangers basically need every single stat... I feel like that makes me Sad, rather than Mad... funny names, though.


For casters, I'd suggest a fixed-list caster, like the Warmage. There are only a few official ones, but they cover their bases fairly well.

What's wrong with the default casters, other than being too awesome?


I'm betting that, no matter how big the sword they use it, there's no provision for a Staff Chamber, is there? Or putting multiple Wand Chambers all through the blade?

Heh. I see the second suggestion as a person with a Revolver/Blade Combo. He spins the barrel, pulls the trigger to activate it, and suddenly slime or something comes out. Freaking Final Fantasy and those accursed Gun Blades...


Regarding my build suggestion:

The simple answer, thought I'm loathed to suggest it, would be to stave off the Warblade dip. Take the build as just straight Barbarian for a couple of extra levels, until you feel comfortable with the mechanics enough to try multiyclassing.

I promise, you'll see the value of it the first time your in combat after you've taken that dip though. But like I said, it can be put off. Barbarian is a solid, simple, Tier 4 class all by itself. Just remove and post pone the Adaptive Style feat and wait till you feel like taking that level of Warblade.

I'm honestly still trying to figure out some of the details in the build as per a basic Barbarian... I'm not ready to try any Template yet, or alternative classes. Honestly, I kinda like playing Human characters. It's a boring choice, but lots of people stick to what they know. And can I take multiple alternative class features? Mage Slayer? Pierce Magical Concealment? Not everyone plays with Flaws (pretty sure the group I'm trying to get into now doesn't, for example), so I'd rather not rely on them.

Jezze, I thought Barbarian wouuld be easy. Simple "I get mad, grab my target's legs and throw them off a cliff" action...


:smallconfused:

...Dragonlance. With ToB allowed.

Do what I've dreamed of!

Kender. Warblade (or Swordsage). :smalltongue:

Doooooo eeeeettttt! [/BADIDEA]

Why is that a bad idea?


But seriously, Swordsage is a good idea. Be sure to take Adaptive Style as your first feat.

I'm completely unsure of how to stat my Hypo Sword Sage... let alone where to go for it with Feats... And I know it's not optimum, but I really would like to try Two Weapon Fighting with it. It seems less Warrior and more Kung Fu'y, and you'd think stabing or beating your enemy several times in a few seconds would be able to flow naturally...


Seconding the sword sage idea. Take Unarmed Variant, Kung Fu Genius, Shadow Blade Strike, Weapons Finnesse to reduce the number of attribute dependency's.

I've actually never found the Unarmed Variant Sword Sage. Where is it? And Kung Fu Genius too, if you don't mind.


If you go with the Sorcerer, focus on Buffs and sells that require the enemy to make a save or die, lose the encounter, or suck.

Examples at low levels are

Grease, Color Spray, Web, Glitter Dust, Obscuring Mist, Mirror Image, Alter Self.

Debuffing is cool, but would there be an issue if I had a couple of Dirrect "Bang Bang" spells? I could stick to buffs, but every now and then someone needs to get blown up...


If you go with the Warblade, Take Adaptive Style and use Stone Dragon, Iron Heart, and maybe a bit of either Tiger Claw or White Raven. Diamond Mind for Emerald Razor Strike and the counters that let you sub a Concentration Check for a Reflex and Will saves wouldn't go Amiss either.

I'm trying to figure out how to pick my Maneuvers for the Warblade. I'm not sure if I have them right... I could take Adaptive Style for my 3rd Feat, depending on if my DM refuses the d20 feat I found.

I don't think I like White Raven all that much, at least not on this first character. I'm more a Wandering Mercenary type, rather than a Leader type. Iron Heart is awesome, though, as is Tiger Claw and Stone Dragon. And Diamond Mind actually seems a little overpowered... at least compared to the others.


And for the Barbarian, use the build I outline earlier, you'll be fine.

I'm not actually completely connecting the dots on how your Barbarian Build works, let alone the multiclassing later... I tried figuring it out, and I might have given myself a headache and either fallen in some type of food, or had something bleed in my ear.




Tactical Discussion that seems to completely go over my head

*smiles and nods back and for while having no real idea what's being said* :smallsmile:

The most important thing I think I could need answered for me right now is figuring out how to pick Maneuvers. Everything after that is gravy.

[Metahuman1]

Ok, since you seem to be leaning Warblade, what level are you starting the Warblade at? First? *Affects what Maneuvers to start with.*

Swordsage: Unarmed Variant is in the class entry for the Swordsage in Tome of Battle as a variant to the regular class progression. It gains Improved Unarmed Strike at level one, and it's unarmed attacks damage increase the same way the monk's do.

Kung Fu Genius was a feat from Dragon Magazine that allows the Monk to use Intelligence in place of Wisdom to power his special ability's. It's common practice to do the same with the Swordsage's Wis based ability's if a Swordsage takes the feat.

Doing this let's you not need Wisdom. Doing it and also taking the Weapons Finesse and Shadow Blade Strike feats also let's you not Need Strength either, meaning you only have to work on keeping Dexterity, Intelligence, and Constitution high for benefits. Which is more manageable.

Regarding Barbarian:


Alternative class features are when you are given the option to trade one class ability for another one in it's place.

The Books Complete Champion and Dungeon Scape give some Alternative Class features that make the Barbarian much more powerful and much more versatile, respectively.

The Alternative Class feature in Complete champion let's you lose the ability to move 10ft farther then most other characters of your species for the ability to make a full attack when you charge. This is called the Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian.

The Alternative class feature in Dungeon Scape let's you lose your bonus to Armor Class against weapons that are part of traps and get the ability to detect traps, and the ability to hit them with your weapon so that they break and cannot be triggered by you or the party. This is called the Trap Killer Alternative class feature.


By taking both, you get angry, and break the puny monsters better, and can also keep the party form getting Ambushed by Orc's laying in wait for them or falling victim to a trip wire and a bunch of crossbows hidden in the mouths and eyes of the statues lining the far wall.

It basically means you kill the monsters, and have something to contribute to the group when there aren't any monsters to kill at a given moment.

As for the rest, I said you could start with 1-4 feats depending on if flaws were used or not and what race you stated with. Starting human with no flaws means you have 2 feats to start. That's cool.

And last but not least, Mage Slayer and the rest in that line of the suggestion are Feats your character can take when at the appropriate levels. More specifically, there very good feats that make not only enemy casters but anything relying on Magic Enhancement easier to deal with. As this game progresses, your going to see more and more of that which makes them very good feats.


Feats that either a Barbarian or a Warblade or a Swordsage would do well to look at.



Regarding Sorcerer: If you must have Boom Boom spells, A few of the Orb spells form the Complete Arcane supplement are the best way to go. You can pick between several energy types and there ranged touch attacks, and you can even throw them inside an Anti Magic Field. Oh, and you still get to make the enemy make a save to avoid an additional detrimental effect in addition to the damage.

[Greenish]

Long post is long.
I'm still trying to pick out my Feats and Specials, and there's a feat that looks -really- cool, and sounds even cooler, that requires proficiency with a certain Weapon, and the Bastard Sword was one such weapon. Although I don't remember it off of the top of my head...Mmn. If it was a weapon style feat from CWar, you probably shouldn't bother. Otherwise, doesn't sound familiar.


I was under the assumption that, so long as my initiator was high enough, I could pick any maneuver within that level or belower, provided I have enough other maneuvers behind it. How flawed is this thinking?You learned your first four maneuvers before your IL was 3, so you couldn't have chosen 2nd level maneuvers.


What feat am I taking, how much does a Gold Great/Bastard Sword Cost (not yet factoring a different size), what's a Rod of Wonder, and do all swords have Wand Chambers?EWP, 7335 gp (+100 gp for wand chamber), this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#wonder), only the ones with it build in (wand chamber is from Dungeonscape).


I'd like to make Two Weapon Fighting work... I was thinking Shadow Blade + Weapon Finesse, as well as the Two Weapon Fighting Line for lots of attacks mainly keyed from Dexterity.That'll work okay. Prepare to dump a lot of money into your weapons, and a lot of feats into just the style, and you should do okay. Just remember to get a way to move and full attack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358) or your style will be badly cramped, though.


I wouldn't need to worry about carrying a ranged weapon if I had a weapon that could fire projectiles for me.... I wanna figure out how to do/get this! 'cause it would be awesome!I can't seem to locate the hammer in question. MIC has swordbows, though, which are pretty much what it says in the tin.


And what's the Sizing property?It allows you to change the size of your weapon. It's from MIC.


Oh God, you had -more- remaining!?!Do. Not. Get. Them. Started.


But... But... But.... Sexy Shoeless God of War..... ;.;SSGoW ganked a huge pile of mooks far too weak to actually provide challenge (hence no XP).


Is there a way you could do "This is My Area I'm guarding, you have to go through me" and "Ha ha, you took my trap and got to me, so now I can kill you" at the same time?Yeah, that's pretty basic tripper style.


Or would you have to switch to a closer weapon and hope you can live through whatever they do? I could have sworn I read that most reach weapons can't touch infront of you at all, so you'd have to do something...Spiked chain is popular for that very reason. Alternatively, armour spikes.


Where are all of these cool toys from? I want some cool toys... A Wand Chamber... I swear there's something I saw in a movie that reminds me of this. You'd have a big blade, open the handle and put the ammo in (in this case, the Wand), and use it as a gun until the ammo ran out. Then you'd pop the round out, and reload another one. Or cut your target up if they were close enough. How far away is my mental image from the rules that I'm almost sarcastically calling reality?Well, shooting people dead with wands is usually either slow or expensive (or both). Otherwise, that's pretty much it.


Can't Wizards kind of do -anything-, even with the Game Master monitoring what he does? How can they remotely be underpowered?Because they get limited amount of daily spells. Because DM can easily nerf them by going out of his or her way to do it. Because they work just fine if everyone agrees to play nice. Because they once had a guy playing wizard and it was weak.

These claims surface from time to time.


What's a Gish?A warrior-mage, (usually) arcane caster tangling into melee. Comes from Githyanki term for their wizard/fighters.


I might not have the right book. I think I have up to like 200ish. I suppose using my feats for a big ol' sword and having bow combat style for range wouldn't be so bad... But man, Rangers basically need every single stat... I feel like that makes me Sad, rather than Mad... funny names, though.If you want spells, you need a bit of Wis. Otherwise, you can do with Str/Con with some Dex. Int is no big deal (unless you want Sword of the Arcane Order), and Cha is dump.


And can I take multiple alternative class features?As long as they don't replace the same class feature.


Why is that a bad idea?Because it's kender, obviously.


I'm completely unsure of how to stat my Hypo Sword Sage... let alone where to go for it with Feats... And I know it's not optimum, but I really would like to try Two Weapon Fighting with it.Swordsage can do TWF okay, in my experience. Tiger Claw, Shadow Hand, Desert Wind. Insightful Strike (the class feature when get full attack with maneuver, the maneuver when you need one big strike despite having small weapon). Shadow Blade.


I've actually never found the Unarmed Variant Sword Sage. Where is it? And Kung Fu Genius too, if you don't mind.ToB page 20, under adaption section, and Dragon Magazine #319, respectively.


Debuffing is cool, but would there be an issue if I had a couple of Dirrect "Bang Bang" spells? I could stick to buffs, but every now and then someone needs to get blown up...Variety is the spice of life. Just because direct damage is the weaker option doesn't mean it's weak in absolute sense. See mailman (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman:_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer) guide for tricks.

[The-Mage-King]

Actually, when you put it that way, I'm thinking less Giant Sword Slashing and more Za Warudo.

Nah. That's...What is it... Time Stop, with a delayed Vortex of Teeth. And a limited wish to use Major Creation (steamroller) :smalltongue:


Psh. He's got to be come combination of classes at the same time. Super Fighter, Super Magician, and Crazy-Funny as heck. He's part Fighter, Part Wizard, Part Bard, easy. Screw it, he's just plain broken.

Fine, add a gestalt to factotum on the build I suggested, while everyone else is normal. :smalltongue:



And what's the Sizing property?

Special property from MIC. Increase or decrease the size of your weapon as a standard action.



Seriously, this game does not favor anyone who champions physical prowess over magic...

Welcome to 3.5. :smalltongue:



?

Nothing, nothing. Just an idea I'm fiddling with...


Oh God, you had -more- remaining!?!

Yep. There's always room for more bear puns. Though Greenish seems to want 'em to hibearnate for a bit...



Wand Chamber sounds.... odd. Not sure how that works. Overall, I'm still very eager to attempt this. Just for the Bling Bling... Also, I can get proficiency for specifically a Heavy Weapon? Being able to pick the exact weapon with the proficiency is neat...

Basically, it's setting up a sword with a place to load a wand. Costs 100 gp, and is in Dungeonscape.



But... But... But.... Sexy Shoeless God of War..... ;.;

No XP=no challenge. Sorry to say.



Is there a way you could do "This is My Area I'm guarding, you have to go through me" and "Ha ha, you took my trap and got to me, so now I can kill you" at the same time? Or would you have to switch to a closer weapon and hope you can live through whatever they do? I could have sworn I read that most reach weapons can't touch infront of you at all, so you'd have to do something...


There, in fact, is. Standard spiked-chain tripper, or the Area Denial Crusader, with the best stance for it, Thicket of Blades.



Where are all of these cool toys from? I want some cool toys... A Wand Chamber... I swear there's something I saw in a movie that reminds me of this. You'd have a big blade, open the handle and put the ammo in (in this case, the Wand), and use it as a gun until the ammo ran out. Then you'd pop the round out, and reload another one. Or cut your target up if they were close enough. How far away is my mental image from the rules that I'm almost sarcastically calling reality?

Add in making a DC 20 Use Magic Device check every time you activate it, and you're on the dot.

Acid Arrow is core/SRD, to note.



Can't Wizards kind of do -anything-, even with the Game Master monitoring what he does? How can they remotely be underpowered?

Pretty much people refusing to be objective, and claiming that the DM can just nerf 'em. Except that to actually hold meaningful discussions about D&D on the internet, we all need to be using the same rules.


What's a Gish?

You know what Negi is? He's more on the caster side of Gish, but I'd say he counts. Basically, the magical knight. Guy who




I might not have the right book. I think I have up to like 200ish. I suppose using my feats for a big ol' sword and having bow combat style for range wouldn't be so bad... But man, Rangers basically need every single stat... I feel like that makes me Sad, rather than Mad... funny names, though.

Not so much. Grab an Elven Courtblade from Complete Warrior and Weapon Finesse, then start Power Attacking with a finessable weapon. Two handed, even.

So you'd need Con/Dex, and maybe Wis for spells. Str can be at 13, Int doesn't need much, and Cha is a dump.


What's wrong with the default casters, other than being too awesome?

Just that- if you're going for your first caster, it's easy to be overwhelmed with options. Hence, my suggesting one of the lesser casters, who are... Less awesome/option-overloaded.



Why is that a bad idea?

Because Kender.



I've actually never found the Unarmed Variant Sword Sage. Where is it? And Kung Fu Genius too, if you don't mind.


The "Adaptation" sidebar after the Swordsage Mechanics, and Dragon Compendium/one of the Dragon Mags.



Debuffing is cool, but would there be an issue if I had a couple of Dirrect "Bang Bang" spells? I could stick to buffs, but every now and then someone needs to get blown up...

Probably better to have some, in my opinion. The "Orb of" line is great for that.



I'm trying to figure out how to pick my Maneuvers for the Warblade. I'm not sure if I have them right... I could take Adaptive Style for my 3rd Feat, depending on if my DM refuses the d20 feat I found.

Eh. Warblade doesn't really need adaptive style.



I don't think I like White Raven all that much, at least not on this first character. I'm more a Wandering Mercenary type, rather than a Leader type. Iron Heart is awesome, though, as is Tiger Claw and Stone Dragon. And Diamond Mind actually seems a little overpowered... at least compared to the others.

You know it, man. Diamond Mind is one of, if not the, best disciplines.


The most important thing I think I could need answered for me right now is figuring out how to pick Maneuvers. Everything after that is gravy.

Heh. Hope you find a way that works for you.

[INoKnowNames]

Long Butt Post Part 1


Ok, since you seem to be leaning Warblade, what level are you starting the Warblade at? First? *Affects what Maneuvers to start with.*

Level 3, although after reading what Greenish said, I think I finally understand where my problem lies (although something about a 4th level maneuver kinda confused me. I'ma pretend he said 2nd level unless he decides to correct me).

Although now the problem of which of the fabulously awesome techniques I learn at level 3 are worth that -1- slot to dedicate them to. I think I've about solved it, but I still wish I could learn more...


Swordsage: Unarmed Variant is in the class entry for the Swordsage in Tome of Battle as a variant to the regular class progression. It gains Improved Unarmed Strike at level one, and it's unarmed attacks damage increase the same way the monk's do.

Desert Wind suddenly becomes a must, since someone needs a Falcon Punch.


Kung Fu Genius was a feat from Dragon Magazine that allows the Monk to use Intelligence in place of Wisdom to power his special ability's. It's common practice to do the same with the Swordsage's Wis based ability's if a Swordsage takes the feat.

Doing this let's you not need Wisdom. Doing it and also taking the Weapons Finesse and Shadow Blade Strike feats also let's you not Need Strength either, meaning you only have to work on keeping Dexterity, Intelligence, and Constitution high for benefits. Which is more manageable.

I -hate- Dragon Magazine now... I can't find any of the good stuff because I don't have all of the articles... at this point, I feel like tossing out the few that I have...

Unarmed Combat + Shadow Blade + Weapon Finesse... Sounds nice...


Regarding Barbarian:

Alternative class features are when you are given the option to trade one class ability for another one in it's place.

The Books Complete Champion and Dungeon Scape give some Alternative Class features that make the Barbarian much more powerful and much more versatile, respectively.

The Alternative Class feature in Complete champion let's you lose the ability to move 10ft farther then most other characters of your species for the ability to make a full attack when you charge. This is called the Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian.

The Alternative class feature in Dungeon Scape let's you lose your bonus to Armor Class against weapons that are part of traps and get the ability to detect traps, and the ability to hit them with your weapon so that they break and cannot be triggered by you or the party. This is called the Trap Killer Alternative class feature.

By taking both, you get angry, and break the puny monsters better, and can also keep the party form getting Ambushed by Orc's laying in wait for them or falling victim to a trip wire and a bunch of crossbows hidden in the mouths and eyes of the statues lining the far wall.

It basically means you kill the monsters, and have something to contribute to the group when there aren't any monsters to kill at a given moment.

Sorry for being so dumb and not getting stuff. I like it. The Full Attack could only be cooler if I could do it unarmed, and possibly gaining a Bite Attack as a Humanoid, just because she'd be that naturally angry during combat. Tear out it's heart and EAT IT! Om Nom Nom...

And hidden weapons in the eyes on the walls... I know I'm not the only person who has ever played "Haunting Ground". Not reliving -that- nightmare will be good. Very good.


As for the rest, I said you could start with 1-4 feats depending on if flaws were used or not and what race you stated with. Starting human with no flaws means you have 2 feats to start. That's cool.

Not that I don't enjoy it, but I bet a lot of people think flaws are cheesy... If only because of a certain Red Mage, at the very least...


And last but not least, Mage Slayer and the rest in that line of the suggestion are Feats your character can take when at the appropriate levels. More specifically, there very good feats that make not only enemy casters but anything relying on Magic Enhancement easier to deal with. As this game progresses, your going to see more and more of that which makes them very good feats.

Wow, an actual way to deal with Wizards? Definitely need to see about enabling that on maybe all of my characters...


Regarding Sorcerer: If you must have Boom Boom spells, A few of the Orb spells form the Complete Arcane supplement are the best way to go. You can pick between several energy types and there ranged touch attacks, and you can even throw them inside an Anti Magic Field. Oh, and you still get to make the enemy make a save to avoid an additional detrimental effect in addition to the damage.

Awesome... HADOKEN!

Long Butt Post Part 2


Mmn. If it was a weapon style feat from CWar, you probably shouldn't bother. Otherwise, doesn't sound familiar.

I found what it -was-, but now that I'm checking on that Barbarian Full Attack move, I did see something else that caught my eye (and Monkey Grip. Heh, Monkey Grip...).

How much use could I make out of Combat Brute? Leap Attack the 1st Turn, then Combat Brute the Next for x3 the Power Attack Damage Bonus on Both Turns.... at least if I have it right (which I probably don't).

The initial thing I was planing on was Iron Heart Aura into STORM GUARD WARRIOR (which should be a Prestige Class, just because of the awesomeness of the name). I ignore any potential Aoes, and gain bonuses to my to hit as well as the damage. Or, I could use Time Stands Still and do touch attacks with each hit, then Diamond Nightmare Blade... Neither are probably that effective, but you can't deny that it wouldn't be -awesome-.


You learned your first four maneuvers before your IL was 3, so you couldn't have chosen 2nd level maneuvers.

That clears that up (except earlier you said I could learn 1 4th level maneuver. Huh?). Now to pick. And I think I've got it. Punishing Stance, Emerald Razor, Sapphire Nightmare Blade, Steel Wind, and Stone Bones. Although there's probably some goodness I'm passing up... or something else that I stupidly forgot.

EWP, 7335 gp (+100 gp for wand chamber), this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#wonder), only the ones with it build in (wand chamber is from Dungeonscape).

I don't see what the rods have to do with it, actually... Although I'm definitely taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency now, and it's time to look at Dungeonscape.


That'll work okay. Prepare to dump a lot of money into your weapons, and a lot of feats into just the style, and you should do okay. Just remember to get a way to move and full attack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358) or your style will be badly cramped, though.

The Sword Sage has way too many options. An intensive dirrection for it seems just what the doctor ordered. Unarmed Two Weapon Fighting with Maneuvers to boot. I saw a couple in Desert Wind, Diamond Mind, and Shadow Hand that let me move around, including a few on the thread you submitted, and the Sword Sage has a huge moveset. Sounds like it'll be cool.

I can't seem to locate the hammer in question. MIC has swordbows, though, which are pretty much what it says in the tin.
You mean like Pit Icarus? Or is it like a Cross Bow where the hilt is where the Arrows are pulled back and launched??


It allows you to change the size of your weapon. It's from MIC.

Dude... Titanic Weapon Master should be able to designate this ability onto any weapon he notes as his signature weapon... And the Freudian Thoughts have made a renewed return....


SSGoW ganked a huge pile of mooks far too weak to actually provide challenge (hence no XP).

He's still a sexy shoeless god of war... Hell, you'd think he'd get Roleplay Exp simply for facing down an army....


Yeah, that's pretty basic tripper style.

Spiked chain is popular for that very reason. Alternatively, armour spikes.

Spike Chain lets you attack people that get close to you? And with Armor Spikes, I assume you'd just run into them...


Well, shooting people dead with wands is usually either slow or expensive (or both). Otherwise, that's pretty much it.

Yeesh... might not do it, then... Ammunition is not something I like to splurge on... wish Bows could just shoot magic arrows... still cool, though. If I have some extra money lying around or make friends with a crafter, I might give it a go.


Because they get limited amount of daily spells. Because DM can easily nerf them by going out of his or her way to do it. Because they work just fine if everyone agrees to play nice. Because they once had a guy playing wizard and it was weak.

These claims surface from time to time.

Would it be wrong of me to say that those sound like really horrible excuses? Because honestly, they do.


If you want spells, you need a bit of Wis. Otherwise, you can do with Str/Con with some Dex. Int is no big deal (unless you want Sword of the Arcane Order), and Cha is dump.

You'd think Cha would be important, for the sake of your animal companion and other wild animals and such... I feel like I might accept a lower Con and use Weapon Finesse, or just get my Dex to enough of a point that I don't need anymore and go Str... Still seems like it needs a lot... Wonder about the Martial Study and Martial Stance Feats to possibly include an emergency 'port at higher levels, as well as a Stance so I can learn the Shadow Blade feat.



Because it's kender, obviously.

Certainly make's an epic rogue, but after thumbing through the book, I think I can see why it doesn't make a good soldier... Smaller and a Str Penalty...


Swordsage can do TWF okay, in my experience. Tiger Claw, Shadow Hand, Desert Wind. Insightful Strike (the class feature when get full attack with maneuver, the maneuver when you need one big strike despite having small weapon). Shado Blade.

You mean Discipline Focus (Insightful Strike, adding Wis to Damage Rolls)? Sounds cool... Definitely need Dex and Wisdom, that's for sure.


ToB page 20, under adaption section, and Dragon Magazine #319, respectively.
Thanks. At this point, it's not even worth having Dragon Magazine if there's nothing in it I can use.


Variety is the spice of life. Just because direct damage is the weaker option doesn't mean it's weak in absolute sense. See mailman (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman:_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer) guide for tricks.
Psh, doesn't matter that it's weaker. What matters is HADOKEN!
Dunno why I didn't consider spoilering posts like this before. Pretty good idea...
And Part 3:

Nah. That's...What is it... Time Stop, with a delayed Vortex of Teeth. And a limited wish to use Major Creation (steamroller) :smalltongue:
On my Sorceress, I will try that. Maybe not a Steam Roller, but still. And she will yell out WRRRRY! Where do I find those spells? I know Time Stop is a level 9, but Vortex of Teeth? Major Creation?


Fine, add a gestalt to factotum on the build I suggested, while everyone else is normal. :smalltongue:
Does a Factotum get a bonus to panty snatching ability?
Seriously though, what's a factotum? (And why did I always pronounce that word Facto-r-um?


Special property from MIC. Increase or decrease the size of your weapon as a standard action.
Anything like that to gain Whirlwind Attack and a throwing attack? 'cause if so, it's really only size proficiency away from the mental image I described earlier....


Welcome to 3.5. :smalltongue:
I'm not sure if I'm a nerd or a jock anymore... I was in Marching Band for a few years, but I was also in Weight Training, and it's hard as heck to not gain strength walking around with 50 pounds on your back....

Yep. There's always room for more bear puns. Though Greenish seems to want 'em to hibearnate for a bit...
Oh good god...


No XP=no challenge. Sorry to say.
Roleplay Exp, at the very least. 'cause that's beyond epic. And fitting for his character.


There, in fact, is. Standard spiked-chain tripper, or the Area Denial Crusader, with the best stance for it, Thicket of Blades.
What's so special about the Spiked Chain? I've read Thicket of Blades. That's epic.
I was actually considering trying to gain Iron Guard's Glare on my Warblade. 'cause that's an awesomely cool name, and it lets me help out allies a bit. Also, it's awesomely cool.

I was actually wondering about using Martial Study to gain a Crusader move that lets me heal while fighting, to help me survive the lower levels until I hit the mid and upper game. I'd gain Sense Motive as a class skill, and I'd gain even more bulk. Add in the Stance gaining Feat to get Iron Guard's Glare, and I can suddenly pretend to be a Tank.


Add in making a DC 20 Use Magic Device check every time you activate it, and you're on the dot.
..... that has the potential to end -horribly- if I failed the check, doesn't it.

Pretty much people refusing to be objective, and claiming that the DM can just nerf 'em. Except that to actually hold meaningful discussions about D&D on the internet, we all need to be using the same rules.
People don't use the same rules in real life, let alone the internet, and not even involving D&D... that just seems like some people beliving something and putting their fingers inside ears to ignore rational thought....



You know what Negi is? He's more on the caster side of Gish, but I'd say he counts. Basically, the magical knight.
Gotta be a Gestalt with his kind of Power Level... or pretty much Pure Magic and using the Magic to Buff himself into Physical Strength, considering how he's defenseless when depowered.


Not so much. Grab an Elven Courtblade from Complete Warrior and Weapon Finesse, then start Power Attacking with a finessable weapon. Two handed, even.

So you'd need Con/Dex, and maybe Wis for spells. Str can be at 13, Int doesn't need much, and Cha is a dump.
I was going to say that I'd be unfriendly to animals, and I suddenly had a vision of Dr Zoidburg and his lack of knowledge on Human Anatomy. Yup, that's where the Gonads are, Doctor.
Elven Cortblade? Cool... definitely something to look into.


Just that- if you're going for your first caster, it's easy to be overwhelmed with options. Hence, my suggesting one of the lesser casters, who are... Less awesome/option-overloaded.
Are they worse than Sword Sages are? ;.;


Because Kender.
A Sword Sage one might be cool... especially if he's using Setting Sun moves. Imagine a little Yoda, throwing people about and occasionally slashing them, while jumping around himself.


Probably better to have some, in my opinion. The "Orb of" line is great for that.
You can never have enough Hadoken!


Eh. Warblade doesn't really need adaptive style.
But he does need to use up his spare feat slot... I'd like to hear back on Improved Sunder into Combat Brute, along with Leap Attack. Leap to my enemy and slash them, then continue Power Attacking for more damage, if I'm right. If not, then I'm still not sure of where I want to go. I'm having enough trouble deciding on what skills to Finalize.


You know it, man. Diamond Mind is one of, if not the, best disciplines.
I'ma roleplay Diamond Mind out of anger. Every time I concentrated and succeeded on a move, it was because I made myself that upset at the idea of failing, and stoped whatever was causing me issue. Mother was a Barbarian....


Heh. Hope you find a way that works for you.

At this point, I'm just trying not to be lost.

Gonna work on and post a level 1 Sword Sage tomorrow. Unarmed Dual Wield with goodies from almost all paths. I've at least decided my combat. Diamond Mind and Iron Heart, with some Stone Dragon. I think Tiger Claw is more suited for the Sword Sage, and I'm not feeling really groupy or leadery enough for White Raven. I'm -almost- done with the Warblade, but I need to do his back story (hopefully if I haven't failed my Diplomacy with the DM / Group, they can help me with that), Skills (see spoiler 1), and Feats (see spoiler 2).

Leap Attack needs 8 Jump, Concentration is Awesome, and as is Tumble. I like Balance but might not have much use for it, and since I'm not going to be pulling from Tiger Claw this time, Jump isn't as important after the 8 ranks.

Intimidate is one of my few roleplaying skills, Listen, Spot, and Search are something anyone should be expected to be able to do, and Gather Information and Sense Motive are more roleplaying skills (albeit at cross class). The Knowledge Skills are also possibilities, Climb and Swim are situational, and I'm unsure if I should have some ranks in Survival and Use Rope, for the sake of the back story of a wandering warrior.

Everything else is rejected (except for maybe some Spellcraft since Mage Slayer is awesome, and I have an idea on making learning the path into my back story), either on grounds of someone else being able to do it much better (Diplomacy, Craft, Heal) or a Roleplaying reason (I'm not sneaky, nor a liar, so Bluff, Disguise, Forgery, and such will never be taken by this character).

As for Feats, I gained a regular feat every 3rd level, and a bonus feat at 5, 9, 13, and 17? I was thinking of invoking the Mage Slayer Combo as one option.

I was also thinking of Iron Heart Aura and Storm Guard Warrior, as mentioned before. I want to ask; if I ignore an Aoo and plan for the bonus to hit and to damage next turn, is the Aoo still counted as used? I am aware that Combat Reflexes allows me to make multiple Aoos, but whether or not the ones counted through ignoring them with Storm Guard Warrior does not seem to be answered.

I also wanted to take Combat Reflexes, as well as Robilar's Gambit. An Aoo for being attacked is pretty good, especially if I can get more Dex. And if it -does- stack with Storm Guard Warrior's Channel the Storm (ignore Aoe for +4 to Damage and To Hit), then I'ma put a hurting on people!

I wasn't sure if I wanted to take Endurance and then Steadfast Determination to remove my Will Save Weakness, rather than rely on Moment of Perfect Mind for all my levels... it's an option, though.

Combat Brute's Momentum Swing says I need to charge in the first round (I assume it means before I attempt this part), and then Power Attack again during the second (which is the part that I mentioned before), to gain an x3 Power Attack Multiplier. Assuming I have all of that right (and it seems like a reasonable interpritation, not a "It says you can only do it once a battle and only during the 1st and 2nd round of it, but I'll try to bend it thing), couldn't I use Leap Attack during that 1st round? x3 on both Power Attacks. If the enemy is still alive, it gets either a full attack, or a move + maneuver. Especially since the maneuvers could potentially be refreshed during the Leap attack Combat Brute Combo.

And then after all of those options, there's still Quick Draw, and Improved Initiative, which would fight with Endurance over that last bonus slot (along with Combat Reflexes, Iron Heart Aura, and Blind Fight). And in the main remaining slots, Cleave, Martial Study, Martial Stance, Leap of the Heavens (to make Leap Attack even easier to do), Adaptive Style (unless the majority really hates it), a possible 3rd party feat that I found (that was really cool), and any additional feats needed to do the above combos.

Now I wish I was part fighter so I had more bonus feats.


The only remaining thing I'm unsure of and haven't asked about (although I did hint about it in the last spoiler)is my recovery technique.

Swift Action + Standard to Melee or no action. Can I recover while using a Full Attack? And can I move if I'm not attacking and still recover? What about Double Moves and/or Running?

Does it simply require I spend a turn not doing maneuvers or a swift action? Or must I do a melee attack or absolutely nothing?

All those issues aside, is there anything else -this- sheet is missing? (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=358226)

[kardar233]

The best Stormguard Warrior build I've seen is Waterga Ironstorm (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871346/Tome_of_Battle:_Build_Compendium&post_num=584#338393254).

[Greenish]

Level 3, although after reading what Greenish said, I think I finally understand where my problem lies (although something about a 4th level maneuver kinda confused me. I'ma pretend he said 2nd level unless he decides to correct me).Hmm?


Sorry for being so dumb and not getting stuff. I like it. The Full Attack could only be cooler if I could do it unarmed, and possibly gaining a Bite Attack as a Humanoid, just because she'd be that naturally angry during combat. Tear out it's heart and EAT IT! Om Nom Nom...Complete Champion PrC named Fist of the Forest can be entered after 4 levels in barbarian. It's about beating things with your fists, blocking attacks with your abs (Con to AC) and getting angry enough to bite people.


That clears that up (except earlier you said I could learn 1 4th level maneuver. Huh?)Ah, there. Yeah, that's a typo.


Now to pick. And I think I've got it. Punishing Stance, Emerald Razor, Sapphire Nightmare Blade, Steel Wind, and Stone Bones.Stone Bones doesn't age well, but then, you can swap it out later. Moment of Perfect Mind is quite popular, too, for shoring up that Will save.


I don't see what the rods have to do with it, actually... Although I'm definitely taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency now, and it's time to look at Dungeonscape.The rod is for shooting diamonds (the first thing that came to my mind). EWP isn't necessary, if you use the bastard sword two-handed, but there are exotic weapons you might come across and even want to use, so it's not that bad.


Unarmed Two Weapon Fighting with Maneuvers to boot.Make sure get your DM's opinion on the "unarmed TWF" thing, the rules are pretty contested about it.


You mean like Pit Icarus? Or is it like a Cross Bow where the hilt is where the Arrows are pulled back and launched??I don't know about Icarus (other than that he flew too close to the sun), but the mace I was thinking of was sort of like that. Come to think of it, there was a spear, too.

Swordbow is just a bow that turns into a sword (and back again).


And the Freudian Thoughts have made a renewed return....If you push the right button on my Rod of Lordly Might, it might extend.


He's still a sexy shoeless god of war... Hell, you'd think he'd get Roleplay Exp simply for facing down an army....


Spike Chain lets you attack people that get close to you? And with Armor Spikes, I assume you'd just run into them...Yeah. Spiked Chain is in the rather exclusive club of weapons that have reach, but can attack close. Attacking with armour spikes is a tackle of some sort, I assume, but the point is you don't have to hold them to attack, so you can threaten close while holding a (conventional) reach weapon.


Yeesh... might not do it, then... Ammunition is not something I like to splurge on... wish Bows could just shoot magic arrows... still cool, though. If I have some extra money lying around or make friends with a crafter, I might give it a go.Artificers can do silly things with wands. They can also burn silly amounts of money doing it, but then, artificers break WBL like it was but a thin twig.


Would it be wrong of me to say that those sound like really horrible excuses?It would probably be better not to get bogged down in those threads.


You'd think Cha would be important, for the sake of your animal companion and other wild animals and such...You get a big bonus on Handling your companion, and skills are relatively easy to boost, if you care. Making your AC do a trick it's trained in is only DC 10, if your group sticks to the RAW. As for Wild Empathy… It's not usually worth it, and definitely isn't worth investing a good Cha score for.


I feel like I might accept a lower Con and use Weapon Finesse, or just get my Dex to enough of a point that I don't need anymore and go Str...If you go archery, you need decent Str for damage (as well as Dex for hit and feat qualification), but you might take a slightly lower Con.

If you go TWF, well, don't bother with Dex as a ranger. Str increases attack and damage without costing you feats. AC and miss chances you can get from other sources.


Certainly make's an epic rogue, but after thumbing through the book, I think I can see why it doesn't make a good soldier... Smaller and a Str Penalty...We didn't mean the stats, we meant the fluff. I'm sure it's theoretically possible to play a kender other players will like, but by the default fluff you're a hyperactive kleptomaniac with no real sense of self-preservation nor concept of private property. It's not as funny as it sounds, especially for people you're playing with.


You mean Discipline Focus (Insightful Strike, adding Wis to Damage Rolls)? Sounds cool... Definitely need Dex and Wisdom, that's for sure.Yes and yes. Some Con won't hurt, either, but then you're pretty much set. Just avoid Str penalty.


Thanks. At this point, it's not even worth having Dragon Magazine if there's nothing in it I can use.You never know, there just might be that one thing that makes something you hadn't even thought of to work.


Psh, doesn't matter that it's weaker.That's what I said. :smallamused:


Does a Factotum get a bonus to panty snatching ability?Yes, they do. If it exists, factotum can get a bonus to it, and if it doesn't, they'll improvise.


Seriously though, what's a factotum? (And why did I always pronounce that word Facto-r-um?Factotum is a base class from Dungeonscape. Pretty much the ultimate skill monkey/utility guy. The "factorum" thing is because the word "factory" is much more familiar to most English-speakers, or that's my theory anyway.


Anything like that to gain Whirlwind Attack and a throwing attack? 'cause if so, it's really only size proficiency away from the mental image I described earlier....Whirling property is also from MIC. Throwing enhancement is from DMG.


I'm not sure if I'm a nerd or a jock anymore...It no longer matters. Welcome to the future, where jocks are "sports nerds".


What's so special about the Spiked Chain?It has reach, it threatens close, it trips, it disarms. Makes it one of the few weapons worth burning a feat for.


I was actually wondering about using Martial Study to gain a Crusader move that lets me heal while fighting, to help me survive the lower levels until I hit the mid and upper game. I'd gain Sense Motive as a class skill, and I'd gain even more bulk.Well, Crusader's Strike doesn't age well, and you can't swap out maneuvers gained from feats. Also, the key skill for Devoted Spirit is Intimidate, unless my memory fails me.


Add in the Stance gaining Feat to get Iron Guard's Glare, and I can suddenly pretend to be a Tank.You can do pretty good, but there comes a point where it might be better just to dip into crusader. Or play one.


..... that has the potential to end -horribly- if I failed the check, doesn't it.If you fail the check with Nat 1, you can't activate the wand again that day. If you fail on 2+ roll, no harm, no foul. If you succeed with nat 1, it works just fine.


pretty much Pure Magic and using the Magic to Buff himself into Physical StrengthThat's one way to be a gish, and a favourite of divine casters. In these boards, the gish builds usually aim for 16+ BAB (for 4th attack) and 9th level spells at level 20 (even if they're not intended to go that far).


Are they worse than Sword Sages are? ;.;Warmage/Beguiler/Dread Necromancer style casters don't have to choose spells known, since they know their whole list. On the other hand, you got their whole list to choose from when casting a spell.


A Sword Sage one might be cool... especially if he's using Setting Sun moves. Imagine a little Yoda, throwing people about and occasionally slashing them, while jumping around himself.Use goblin for that. Arctic (Dragon #306) Air Goblin (UA) for -2 Str, +4 Dex, -2 Cha and 30 ft. move.

Whisper gnome (RoS) works too, -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Cha, 30 ft. move and nice bonuses on stealth.


You can never have enough Hadoken!Having too many spells that do the same is a trap for a sorcerer. One or two good ones will do, since you can spam them when applicable.


Leap Attack needs 8 Jump, Concentration is Awesome, and as is Tumble. I like Balance but might not have much use for it, and since I'm not going to be pulling from Tiger Claw this time, Jump isn't as important after the 8 ranks.5 ranks in Balance is useful so you won't be flat-footed while making those checks.


Intimidate is one of my few roleplaying skills, Listen, Spot, and Search are something anyone should be expected to be able to do, and Gather Information and Sense Motive are more roleplaying skills (albeit at cross class).If you invest much to cross-class skills, your skillpoints will vanish like snow in rain.


I also wanted to take Combat Reflexes, as well as Robilar's Gambit. An Aoo for being attacked is pretty good, especially if I can get more Dex. And if it -does- stack with Storm Guard Warrior's Channel the Storm (ignore Aoe for +4 to Damage and To Hit), then I'ma put a hurting on people!You can use AoO provoked with Robilar's Gambit to fuel Stormguard Warrior, yes, and you will be able to give a big shot afterwards… if you survive that long. Even with d12 HD and decent Con, your HP will plummet rather fast if you stand there taking full attacks from big nasties.


Combat Brute's Momentum Swing says I need to charge in the first round (I assume it means before I attempt this part), and then Power Attack again during the second (which is the part that I mentioned before), to gain an x3 Power Attack Multiplier. Assuming I have all of that right (and it seems like a reasonable interpritation, not a "It says you can only do it once a battle and only during the 1st and 2nd round of it, but I'll try to bend it thing), couldn't I use Leap Attack during that 1st round?Sure.

There's a thing about chargers, though. It's relatively easy to deal more damage on a charge by mid/mid-high levels than any monster in MMI-V has HP. That's not a good thing for encounter design or gaming fun.

Not that you're quite there, but even Leap Attack + Pouncing Charge packs a pretty big wallop.


Leap of the Heavens (to make Leap Attack even easier to do)That's hardly necessary, Jump checks are easy to boost, and even if you don't get the running start, 10ft. long jump is mere DC 20.


Adaptive Style (unless the majority really hates it)It's not bad, but it's not a must-have, either.


Now I wish I was part fighter so I had more bonus feats.You could multiclass. You'd lose on maneuvers (and skillpoints and hp) then, though. 1-2 levels of fighter is pretty popular due to how few feats you get. I usually prefer feat rogue (UA), myself, but fighter has it's uses.


Swift Action + Standard to Melee or no action. Can I recover while using a Full Attack? And can I move if I'm not attacking and still recover? What about Double Moves and/or Running?Yes, no, and no. You need to spend a swift action and attack (or do nothing with your standard action) to recover.

[INoKnowNames]

I'll update this a little bit later with more responces...

BUT LOOK AT MY SHINY NEW AVATAR! AND BY SHINY I MEAN ODD LOOKING, AND BY NEW, I MEAN GARBAGE!

I DID IT ALL BY MYSELF (except a little help from the nice Arts and Crafts people in being able to use it)! It's how I see the character I'm about to play as.

And I totally would never look like that in real life. Nope.

I suppose I will say one thing. Since the update in the back of the sword sage's adaptation is indeed very tentative, the one I'm rolling up under 32 point buy is assumed to not naturally have Monk Progression Flurry and stuff. Human + Adaptive Style + Improved Unarmed Combat it is.

[INoKnowNames]

Hmm? Ah, there. Yeah, that's a typo.

Ah, that makes sense, then. I guess my Maneuvers are set for now.


Complete Champion PrC named Fist of the Forest can be entered after 4 levels in barbarian. It's about beating things with your fists, blocking attacks with your abs (Con to AC) and getting angry enough to bite people.

I may be trying Multiclass with the Barbarian, then. Because I absolutely love that prestige.


Stone Bones doesn't age well, but then, you can swap it out later. Moment of Perfect Mind is quite popular, too, for shoring up that Will save.

I don't see anything else even worth picking of the rank 1 maneuvers (except for Charging Minotaur, but I feel like with an actual Minotaur in the party that I might not want to take it). All the awesome stuff starts coming at rank 2+. At least the awesome stuff I don't have yet.


The rod is for shooting diamonds (the first thing that came to my mind). EWP isn't necessary, if you use the bastard sword two-handed, but there are exotic weapons you might come across and even want to use, so it's not that bad.

Ah. Although some of the additional effects of the rod are... questionable. I'm actually wondering if a Full Blade (from Arms and Equipment) could be mastered (not 1 handed, of course) through only 1 use of Exotic Weapon Proficiency. And if so, gotta update that sheet. (Although if I do go with a Full Blade, Storm Guard Warrior becomes impossible... decisions, decisions...)


Make sure get your DM's opinion on the "unarmed TWF" thing, the rules are pretty contested about it.

Huh? You'd think it'd be easy to Two Weapon Fight if you've got Improved Unarmed Strike. You got two powerful guns to work with!

Seriously though, does it say somewhere that you can't use your off hand as your actual off hand or something?


I don't know about Icarus (other than that he flew too close to the sun), but the mace I was thinking of was sort of like that. Come to think of it, there was a spear, too.

I was thinking of the Nintendo version. He has a Bow that he can shoot arrows from, and could split it in half into two curved blades of light, or fight with it as a double ended weapon.


Swordbow is just a bow that turns into a sword (and back again).

Oh. Well that's just boring.


If you push the right button on my Rod of Lordly Might, it might extend.

Really? Really? I was actually tempted to continue the joke and ask here if it was a one or two handed weapon. What's happened to me...


Yeah. Spiked Chain is in the rather exclusive club of weapons that have reach, but can attack close. Attacking with armour spikes is a tackle of some sort, I assume, but the point is you don't have to hold them to attack, so you can threaten close while holding a (conventional) reach weapon.

And now the final horse crosses the finish line. Make it so that if they get within 15 feet of you, every single thing they do gets them a whip to the face, and there's really not a dang thing they can do about it. Devious...


Artificers can do silly things with wands. They can also burn silly amounts of money doing it, but then, artificers break WBL like it was but a thin twig.

I could have sworn someone tried to make Mega Man with an Artificer. Which isn't silly, so much as it is awesome.


You get a big bonus on Handling your companion, and skills are relatively easy to boost, if you care. Making your AC do a trick it's trained in is only DC 10, if your group sticks to the RAW. As for Wild Empathy… It's not usually worth it, and definitely isn't worth investing a good Cha score for.

Heh. I know I saw someone who had a 6 Charisma Half Orc Druid avatar (by the way, I made myself a custom one for my campaign! Isn't it horribly newbie? :smallbiggrin: ), and her's animal companion was attacking her. That's hilarious.

On one of my characters (whatever class I use for my basic spell caster, still probably a Sorceress), I'ma need to remember the rules for an Animal Companion. I see the character in my head traveling with a dog. Maybe a Wolf, considering how he looks, but still.


If you go archery, you need decent Str for damage (as well as Dex for hit and feat qualification), but you might take a slightly lower Con.


If you go TWF, well, don't bother with Dex as a ranger. Str increases attack and damage without costing you feats. AC and miss chances you can get from other sources.

I think I want to go with Archery for the Ranger, with feats used to be better at that and to be able to use a melee weapon if need be. What's the minimum Wisdom a Ranger needs to cast spells? Hoping for an average Charisma and Intelligence stat, too. I basically feel like I'd need at least -decent- stats all across the board, pumping additional stats into Strength, and using my spells to buff me.


We didn't mean the stats, we meant the fluff. I'm sure it's theoretically possible to play a kender other players will like, but by the default fluff you're a hyperactive kleptomaniac with no real sense of self-preservation nor concept of private property. It's not as funny as it sounds, especially for people you're playing with.

What part of that isn't like the average adventurer? And what part of that isn't hilarious?


Yes and yes. Some Con won't hurt, either, but then you're pretty much set. Just avoid Str penalty.

Got ya.


You never know, there just might be that one thing that makes something you hadn't even thought of to work.

I want to dismiss it now, but I know the second I toss it, I'll hear about something actually worth it in one of those early chapters (I think I only have up to 230ish). And then I'll be mad. But until I decide to throw it out, everything I've ever wanted will not be in it.

The universe is mean...


That's what I said. :smallamused:

You did not, however, mention the Hadoken. HADOKEN!


Yes, they do. If it exists, factotum can get a bonus to it, and if it doesn't, they'll improvise.

How... how would you .... how...... what........ what..........


Factotum is a base class from Dungeonscape. Pretty much the ultimate skill monkey/utility guy. The "factorum" thing is because the word "factory" is much more familiar to most English-speakers, or that's my theory anyway.

Solid theory.


Whirling property is also from MIC. Throwing enhancement is from DMG.

If Whirling didn't have a limit per day, and if you get Returning with Throwing, it looks like all of the mechanics for Titanic Weapon Master's special abilities would pretty much be set. Sizing, Whirling, and Throwing/Returning automatically on a signature weapon as you level up, and modifiers to what size weapons you can or can't use. (heh. By max level of the prestige, you could use a Great Axe as a Light Weapon 1 handed and gain Weapon Finesse and such from it. :smalltongue: )


It no longer matters. Welcome to the future, where jocks are "sports nerds".

The future needs more rubber suits.


It has reach, it threatens close, it trips, it disarms. Makes it one of the few weapons worth burning a feat for.

Despite such a thing being probably more impractical than most weapons in real life that seem somewhat eh here.


Well, Crusader's Strike doesn't age well, and you can't swap out maneuvers gained from feats. Also, the key skill for Devoted Spirit is Intimidate, unless my memory fails me. You can do pretty good, but there comes a point where it might be better just to dip into crusader. Or play one.

I probably wouldn't be able to recover it like any of my Warblade moves anyway. And being Feat Starved -sucks-. And yes, Devoted Spirit's skill is Intimidate. Darn it... ;.;

Ah well. Paladin/Knight, Rogue (with some type of crazy awesome walker) and a Cleric. Only the Noble would need defending anyway.

Although I will try a Crusader later. Maybe a full on "get near me and you lose" one.


If you fail the check with Nat 1, you can't activate the wand again that day. If you fail on 2+ roll, no harm, no foul. If you succeed with nat 1, it works just fine.

I always assumed bad stuff happened when you rolled a natural one, let alone failed. Less "unable to use that day" and more "OHMYGODICAN'TFEELMYSKINIT'SBURNINGMESOMEONEKILLME".

Learn something new every day.


Warmage/Beguiler/Dread Necromancer style casters don't have to choose spells known, since they know their whole list. On the other hand, you got their whole list to choose from when casting a spell.

I'm looking at the Sorcerer skill list and skill points, and I can't say I like it that much. Might use one of those 3 in place of it. Where can I find those classes?


Use goblin for that. Arctic (Dragon #306) Air Goblin (UA) for -2 Str, +4 Dex, -2 Cha and 30 ft. move.

I'm almost ready to put "Please no Dragon Magazine Suggestions" on my signature. 'cause this is just depressing.


Whisper gnome (RoS) works too, -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Cha, 30 ft. move and nice bonuses on stealth.

Ooh, found the Goliath in there, too. Stupid +1 LA... Whisper Gnome Sword Sage it is. Punching people out as freaking Yoda. I just need a way to turn Green... and maybe gain Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Light Saber).


Having too many spells that do the same is a trap for a sorcerer. One or two good ones will do, since you can spam them when applicable.

At the very least, one type of "HADOKEN" per level. From Magic Missile to Meteor Swarm. Yes.


5 ranks in Balance is useful so you won't be flat-footed while making those checks.

I already have 5 Balance. Guess I don't need anymore, then.


If you invest much to cross-class skills, your skillpoints will vanish like snow in rain.

I'm certainly not capable of being a skill money, but I feel like having the ability to roleplay is important to any person, even if it's just simple things like cross class skills. Concentration and Tumble will forever take up 2 of my 7 points each level, but the other 5 (once Jump and Balance are satisfied) will fill up those additional skills, even at Cross Class.

Although I'm trying to figure out how Cross Class works. Basically, every other level, I could invest 2 points into a Cross Class to gain 1 full rank in it? I do know you can't carry over skill points from each level, so I guess if that's how it is, I'd pick 2 CC and 1 C skill each level to boost up.


You can use AoO provoked with Robilar's Gambit to fuel Stormguard Warrior, yes, and you will be able to give a big shot afterwards… if you survive that long. Even with d12 HD and decent Con, your HP will plummet rather fast if you stand there taking full attacks from big nasties.

I'm not going to do it now, since I don't think I would like taking all those hits, but let me just make sure I have the thought right.

With Robilar's Gambit, I can gain the chance for an AoO every time someone swings at me. However, I can choose to not take it, and use it to Fuel the Storm. And so long as I'm not physically using up the AoO by attacking back, I can do this as many times during the round that they give me chances for AoOs?

Or is the AoO counted as used up from me, requiring that I have a good dexterity score no matter what I do? I hope I'm being clear...


Sure.

There's a thing about chargers, though. It's relatively easy to deal more damage on a charge by mid/mid-high levels than any monster in MMI-V has HP. That's not a good thing for encounter design or gaming fun.

Not that you're quite there, but even Leap Attack + Pouncing Charge packs a pretty big wallop.

I sent a message to the dm to ask him about this combo (not the Pouncing Charge part, the Leap Brute part). I honestly don't think he minds.

But if he is okay with it, I so want it. Technically, assuming I don't do anything else, wouldn't my moves be refreshed by the second hit, during the Combat Brute part?

No Pouncing Charge. Tiger Claw's going to be for the Sword Sage. My Heart is made of Iron, and my Mind's as sharp as a Diamond. I'll never back down, not until I'm dead!


You could multiclass. You'd lose on maneuvers

Losing on Maneuvers is not an option. There's already too many good ones that I won't be able to take without losing even more.


Yes, no, and no. You need to spend a swift action and attack (or do nothing with your standard action) to recover.

So, I must have a Swift Action, and I must use a Standard Action to Attack (or do nothing, possibly pose awesomely and call out insults). Can I still move with the remaining move action, at least?



Probably had 1 or 2 more, but I can't think of anything else now.... Not too long until I can finally say I've finished my 1st character and started playing my 1st game!

Also, before I forget. Kardar223, I appreciate the suggestion, but I have absoluely no idea what he's saying after "Putting Ironstorm Together". Although I love that name for a combo. IRON STORM!

[Gavinfoxx]

If I can find a way to spam it, I might go to town simply floating over people and throwing everything at or into each other.

I already gave you the way to spam it: Be a Ghost. They automatically get to spam TK. That's why I sent you the Ghost Handbook too.

[Greenish]

I'm actually wondering if a Full Blade (from Arms and Equipment) could be mastered (not 1 handed, of course) through only 1 use of Exotic Weapon Proficiency.Sure.


Huh? You'd think it'd be easy to Two Weapon Fight if you've got Improved Unarmed Strike. You got two powerful guns to work with!

Seriously though, does it say somewhere that you can't use your off hand as your actual off hand or something?Unarmed Strike represents punches, kicks, headbutts and so forth. The argument goes that I has to be a single weapon, because otherwise what's stopping you from using Multiweapon Fighting to gain nigh-infinite amount of attacks by using all the different surfaces of your body you could hit someone with. And the rules never say you have more than one Unarmed Strike.

There's also the fact that the best way to enchant your unarmed strike (Necklace of Natural Attacks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060707a)) derives it's cost from how many weapons it affects. If you set it to affect your unarmed strike, it's the same price as a single weapon of equal power, but if you then TWF, you're essentially getting two weapons enhanced for the price of one.

Further confusing the issue are Kensai (CWar) and City Brawler Barbarian (Dragon Mag this or that). The former can enchant his weapons as a class feature, and specifies you have to enchant each of your fists separately. The latter gives you TWF that only works with unarmed strikes (but how official Dragon Mags are is a different topic, being as they're not made by WotC).TL;DR: Ask your DM.


I was thinking of the Nintendo version. He has a Bow that he can shoot arrows from, and could split it in half into two curved blades of light, or fight with it as a double ended weapon.Kid Icarus? Oh well, never played those games.


I was actually tempted to continue the joke and ask here if it was a one or two handed weapon.Depends on how you handle it. :smallwink: (Honestly, it does (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#lordlyMight).)


And now the final horse crosses the finish line. Make it so that if they get within 15 feet of you, every single thing they do gets them a whip to the face, and there's really not a dang thing they can do about it. Devious...Whip doesn't threaten, so no AoO for you. If you get Large, though, your reach with a reach weapon will be 20 ft. A prudent usage of Crusader and right feats means that everytime any enemy within your reach tries to move (Thicket of Blades stance), attack your ally (Defensive Rebuke boost), attack you (Robilar's Gambit), cast a spell or use an SLA (Mage Slayer) or do pretty much anything else, you get an AoO.


I think I want to go with Archery for the Ranger, with feats used to be better at that and to be able to use a melee weapon if need be. What's the minimum Wisdom a Ranger needs to cast spells? Hoping for an average Charisma and Intelligence stat, too. I basically feel like I'd need at least -decent- stats all across the board, pumping additional stats into Strength, and using my spells to buff me.You get up to 4th level spells, so you'll have to end up with 14 Wis to cast the highest level ones. That doesn't mean you have to start with that high Wis.

Archery isn't the best supported strategy in the game, so you might need the handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0).


What part of that isn't like the average adventurer? And what part of that isn't hilarious?Pray you don't have to learn the hard way.


How... how would you .... how...... what........ what..........Every single skill ever printed anywhere is a class skill for a factotum. If it takes Str or Dex check, factotums can add their Int (key stat for them) to it too. If it involves rolling, chances are factotum can add either it's Int mod or it's level to the check.

Factotums can't cast spells, or heal, or turn undead. They just fake it so well it works.


If Whirling didn't have a limit per day, and if you get Returning with Throwing, it looks like all of the mechanics for Titanic Weapon Master's special abilities would pretty much be set. Sizing, Whirling, and Throwing/Returning automatically on a signature weapon as you level up, and modifiers to what size weapons you can or can't use. (heh. By max level of the prestige, you could use a Great Axe as a Light Weapon 1 handed and gain Weapon Finesse and such from it. :smalltongue: )There's a reasonably active Homebrew subforum here. If you ever flesh TWM out, do post it. :smallcool:


Despite such a thing being probably more impractical than most weapons in real life that seem somewhat eh here.That's D&D for you.


I probably wouldn't be able to recover it like any of my Warblade moves anyway.Yes, you could.


I always assumed bad stuff happened when you rolled a natural one, let alone failed. Less "unable to use that day" and more "OHMYGODICAN'TFEELMYSKINIT'SBURNINGMESOMEONEKILLME".I'm most grateful 3.5 doesn't use fumble rules.


I'm looking at the Sorcerer skill list and skill points, and I can't say I like it that much. Might use one of those 3 in place of it. Where can I find those classes?Warmage (the weakest of the three) is in C.Arcane, Beguiler is from PHB II and Dread Necromancer is from Heroes of Horror.


I'm almost ready to put "Please no Dragon Magazine Suggestions" on my signature. 'cause this is just depressing.Many games ban or discourage Dragon Magazine.


I'm certainly not capable of being a skill money, but I feel like having the ability to roleplay is important to any person, even if it's just simple things like cross class skills. Concentration and Tumble will forever take up 2 of my 7 points each level, but the other 5 (once Jump and Balance are satisfied) will fill up those additional skills, even at Cross Class.

Although I'm trying to figure out how Cross Class works. Basically, every other level, I could invest 2 points into a Cross Class to gain 1 full rank in it? I do know you can't carry over skill points from each level, so I guess if that's how it is, I'd pick 2 CC and 1 C skill each level to boost up.You got the rules right. If you're planning on doing a lot of cross-class skills, you might want to consider Able Learner feat from RoD. It reduces the cost of cross-class skills to 1 point per rank (doesn't raise the cap though). A yet more skilled character, I'm fond of two-level dip into feat rogue (UA variant) before entering Warblade, combined with Able Learner.


Or is the AoO counted as used up from me, requiring that I have a good dexterity score no matter what I do? I hope I'm being clear...I'm not sure.


But if he is okay with it, I so want it. Technically, assuming I don't do anything else, wouldn't my moves be refreshed by the second hit, during the Combat Brute part?Yeah.


No Pouncing Charge. Tiger Claw's going to be for the Sword Sage. My Heart is made of Iron, and my Mind's as sharp as a Diamond. I'll never back down, not until I'm dead!Sure, you can limit yourself to two schools and still work just fine (especially with IH/DM).


So, I must have a Swift Action, and I must use a Standard Action to Attack (or do nothing, possibly pose awesomely and call out insults).You have to use a swift action and attack (standard action or full round one, matters not). If you don't want to attack, you have to waste your standard action. If you don't full attack, you'll still have move action left to use, yes.


Not too long until I can finally say I've finished my 1st character and started playing my 1st game!Have fun. :smalltongue:

[INoKnowNames]

I already gave you the way to spam it: Be a Ghost. They automatically get to spam TK. That's why I sent you the Ghost Handbook too.

I'm so short sighted some times.... Thanks for that. Hm.... cliche' as heck, but I could be a ghost that didn't realise he was dead! That'd be fun.



Sure.

I asked, and I GOT IT! Carrying a couple of weapons to cover my bases, and it's not as big as a freaking sky-scraper, but I GOT ME A FULL BLADE! Sweet!


TL;DR: Ask your DM.

Yeesh, I see your point. I guess Yoda can dual wield a walking stick and a Light Saber...


Kid Icarus? Oh well, never played those games.

The one coming out on the 3DS soon looks like it's going to be worth a try.


Depends on how you handle it. :smallwink: (Honestly, it does (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#lordlyMight).)

I'd be more mentally broken by the innuendo if, during my searching, I hadn't found "BoEF", Nymphology (which is -NOT- about Pixies), and "TBoUCK" (which is -not- about being Chaotic). :smalleek:


Whip doesn't threaten, so no AoO for you. If you get Large, though, your reach with a reach weapon will be 20 ft. A prudent usage of Crusader and right feats means that everytime any enemy within your reach tries to move (Thicket of Blades stance), attack your ally (Defensive Rebuke boost), attack you (Robilar's Gambit), cast a spell or use an SLA (Mage Slayer) or do pretty much anything else, you get an AoO.

I was still referencing the Spiked Chain, actually. I guess I ment Chain to the Face. Still an epic strategy. People might need to make a list of thing you can do around that Crusader....


You get up to 4th level spells, so you'll have to end up with 14 Wis to cast the highest level ones. That doesn't mean you have to start with that high Wis.

Cool.


Archery isn't the best supported strategy in the game, so you might need the handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0).

Good reason, too. Magic is already overpowered, so Melee does seem odd. But all of the midevil fighting and siege engines and such stoped the second we got good with guns and other ranged weapons. An Epic Wizard might be trouble, but otherwise it's very good that Range does not get nice things. Potential to automatically invalidate -everything-.


Pray you don't have to learn the hard way.

I believe there is a Kender in the party, actually... a Kender Rogue, if I remember right. And the campaign is titled "To Catch a Kender".... Should I be worried? :smallfrown:


Every single skill ever printed anywhere is a class skill for a factotum. If it takes Str or Dex check, factotums can add their Int (key stat for them) to it too. If it involves rolling, chances are factotum can add either it's Int mod or it's level to the check.

Factotums can't cast spells, or heal, or turn undead. They just fake it so well it works.

What the heck do you fake to get a bonus to "Snatch Panties"!?! :smalleek:

Although Factotums sound like they'd be pretty useful in a party... Sounds like a nice class.


There's a reasonably active Homebrew subforum here. If you ever flesh TWM out, do post it. :smallcool:

Will do. Maybe something that a Fighter could get into early with his bonus feats, for the sake of being nice.


I'm most grateful 3.5 doesn't use fumble rules.

I was under the assumption that it did, especially since a couple of skills and abilities specify not failing on a natural 1, making it seem like it was the rule otherwise.

Warmage (the weakest of the three) is in C.Arcane, Beguiler is from PHB II and Dread Necromancer is from Heroes of Horror.

Many games ban or discourage Dragon Magazine.

You got the rules right. If you're planning on doing a lot of cross-class skills, you might want to consider Able Learner feat from RoD. It reduces the cost of cross-class skills to 1 point per rank (doesn't raise the cap though). A yet more skilled character, I'm fond of two-level dip into feat rogue (UA variant) before entering Warblade, combined with Able Learner.


I'm not sure.

Eh, I guess I'll just skip it, then. Have -plenty- of tricks left still, and a Full Blade to do them with.


Yeah.

Heh. Leap Attack - Combat Brute - Emerald Razor - Ruby Nightmare Blade - Lightning Throw - Chase (or Leap Attack if in Range still) - Combat Brute - ...

Gotta make sure I set the clock FOR COMBO TIME! BREAK IT DOWN! :smallamused:


Sure, you can limit yourself to two schools and still work just fine (especially with IH/DM).

Sad I can't get too many Stone Dragon moves in. But Iron Heart and Diamond Mind are just awesome...


You have to use a swift action and attack (standard action or full round one, matters not). If you don't want to attack, you have to waste your standard action. If you don't full attack, you'll still have move action left to use, yes.

Documented and noted.


Have fun. :smalltongue:

Thanks a lot for the help, from you and everyone. Greenish, any chance you'd mind me buddying you on here?

I have to make a few notes in the sheet in the additional section, mainly about planned future Feats, Maneuvers, and Skills. I could probably go ahead and note on how each of them work. But that is completely and totally optional.

MY VERY FIRST CHARACTER, DAVORIN THE WARBLADE, IS OPERATIONAL! (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=358226) Yay! :smallsmile:

[Greenish]

I asked, and I GOT IT! Carrying a couple of weapons to cover my bases, and it's not as big as a freaking sky-scraper, but I GOT ME A FULL BLADE! Sweet!Note, though, that fullblade uses 3.0 weapon size rules. A DM might rule it's just a Large bastard sword in 3.5.


But all of the midevil fighting and siege engines and such stoped the second we got good with guns and other ranged weapons.:smallconfused::smallamused:


What the heck do you fake to get a bonus to "Snatch Panties"!?! :smalleek:You could probably steal someone's underwear without them even noticing on a high enough Sleight of Hand check. Heh, a high enough check would allow you to do so as a free action. Factotums do get to add their Int (and 1/day their level) to those checks…


I was under the assumption that it did, especially since a couple of skills and abilities specify not failing on a natural 1, making it seem like it was the rule otherwise.Only things that automatically fail on Nat 1 are saves and attack rolls. Even then, you only fail to succeed, instead of accidentally exploding or cutting of your own sword arm.


Thanks a lot for the help, from you and everyone. Greenish, any chance you'd mind me buddying you on here?I actually have no idea what the "buddy" feature actually does, but sure. :smalltongue:

[INoKnowNames]

Note, though, that fullblade uses 3.0 weapon size rules. A DM might rule it's just a Large bastard sword in 3.5.

Eh, he let it stay as it is, simply requiring proficiency. I'm not complaining.


You could probably steal someone's underwear without them even noticing on a high enough Sleight of Hand check. Heh, a high enough check would allow you to do so as a free action. Factotums do get to add their Int (and 1/day their level) to those checks…

This game is horrifying....


Only things that automatically fail on Nat 1 are saves and attack rolls. Even then, you only fail to succeed, instead of accidentally exploding or cutting of your own sword arm.

Didn't someone actually die from Natural 1ing a Tumble Check 3 times or something? Could have sworn I saw that mentioned...


I actually have no idea what the "buddy" feature actually does, but sure. :smalltongue:

Yay!

I need to find that "90% of people began their first game in a tavern; if you didn't copy this into your signature" thing.

I began my first game, standing outside the wreckage of what once was a farm house; Dead Animals and Ogre Tracks abound.

[kardar233]

Simplified explanation of the Ironstorm build:


The feat Stormguard Warrior allows you to trade attacks or attacks of opportunity for to-hit and damage bonuses on your next turn. Attacks of opportunity don't get made, but you can make touch attacks instead of melee attacks for bonuses.
The maneuver Avalanche of Blades allows you to keep making attacks at a stacking -4 to-hit penalty until you miss.
The feat Crushing Strike gives you a stacking +1 to-hit bonus for each attack you make in a turn using a bludgeoning weapon.
The maneuver Raging Mongoose allows you to make extra attacks on a full attack.
The maneuver Time Stands Still allows you to make two full attacks as a full-round action.


This gives you the most brutal two-turn alpha-strike ever.

Activate Avalanche of Blades and use the touch attack option of Stormguard Warrior. You make attacks that don't deal any damage against the enemy against their touch AC at a stacking -3 penalty until you miss.

Next turn, activate Raging Mongoose and then use Time Stands Still. You'll be making at least twelve attacks, each of which gets +5 damage per non-damaging hit you landed last turn. Seeing as you were attacking their touch AC, you should have landed a ton of hits last turn, working out to an absurd amount of damage.

The build is feat-intensive, but luckily Warblade gets bonus feats. A possible option for improvement is Martial Stance: Aura of Perfect Order allowing for a more reliable first-turn powerup.

[Greenish]

Didn't someone actually die from Natural 1ing a Tumble Check 3 times or something? Could have sworn I saw that mentioned...An excellent demonstration of why you shouldn't homebrew fumble rules into your game.


I need to find that "90% of people began their first game in a tavern; if you didn't copy this into your signature" thing.I won't tell anyone if you just write it. :smalltongue:

[INoKnowNames]

An excellent demonstration of why you shouldn't homebrew fumble rules into your game.

How would some of those work, anyway? Fail Speak Language 3 times and your tongue expands and you choke? Epic Fail your Hide Check and you disappear... FROM THE UNIVERSE! (Dun Dun Duuun)

I wonder if I should ask if we get the massive damage rules. Strike of Perfect Clarity. 'nom.


I won't tell anyone if you just write it. :smalltongue:

*looks left, then looks right, then looks left again while editing his signature*

I wonder if I should verify a maneuver path for my character before moving onto the sword sage... I'm not sure if I'm fully ready for the "swap this maneuver to gain this one" part. Wish I could just keep al of them/relearn them through study and training during a level. Darn Sword Sages and their ability to learn thousands of ninjutsu. Wait, what?

Got my feats planned out, too.

Level 1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Full Blade)
Human Bonus: Power Attack
Level 3: Cleave
Warblade Bonus 5: (Combat Reflexes/Improved Initiative/Quick Draw/Blind Fight)
Level 6: Leap Attack
Level 9: Improved Sunder
Warblade Bonus 9: (Previous 4 bonus options -1)
Level 12: Combat Brute
Warblade Bonus 13: (Previous 4 bonus options -2)
Level 15: Mage Slayer
Warblade Bonus 17: (Final Bonus Option)
Level 18: Pierce Magical Concealment.

And while I'm making characters, I'm considering opening a new thread to ask about something. I know the roles I like, but still. Just a discussion thread.

Also, Beguiler looks -awesome-. There's a character I'm thinking of from something I played who would be interesting to base a Mage off of, and actually having class skills and the points for them is cool. The only thing she'd be missing is Handle Animal (and maybe Ride, but it's completely optional), and maybe a good familiar, compared to a Raven. (And by good I mean Ravens are usually associated with Evil. Maybe it could have Raven stats, but be something else, like a Dove or something.)

Although then again, she might be more a divine (but possibly godless) spellcaster (with an emphasis on Charisma, since she's so nice and has very.... nice personality). D4 Hit Dice and only good Will Save (although even that gets taxed) seem appropriate.

But first, gotta write up my Mystical Kung Fu Warrior who likes to stab people!

One thing I didn't really factor into the character building process was the number of base levels to put in. I don't feel like you get to reall do much for the learning process with a level 1 character... and obviously it's much harder to stat out everything for a level 10+.... what'd be a good level to aim at for the Sword Sage?


Simplified explanation of the Ironstorm build:


The feat Stormguard Warrior allows you to trade attacks or attacks of opportunity for to-hit and damage bonuses on your next turn. Attacks of opportunity don't get made, but you can make touch attacks instead of melee attacks for bonuses.
The maneuver Avalanche of Blades allows you to keep making attacks at a stacking -4 to-hit penalty until you miss.
The feat Crushing Strike gives you a stacking +1 to-hit bonus for each attack you make in a turn using a bludgeoning weapon.
The maneuver Raging Mongoose allows you to make extra attacks on a full attack.
The maneuver Time Stands Still allows you to make two full attacks as a full-round action.


This gives you the most brutal two-turn alpha-strike ever.

Activate Avalanche of Blades and use the touch attack option of Stormguard Warrior. You make attacks that don't deal any damage against the enemy against their touch AC at a stacking -3 penalty until you miss.

Next turn, activate Raging Mongoose and then use Time Stands Still. You'll be making at least twelve attacks, each of which gets +5 damage per non-damaging hit you landed last turn. Seeing as you were attacking their touch AC, you should have landed a ton of hits last turn, working out to an absurd amount of damage.
The build is feat-intensive, but luckily Warblade gets bonus feats. A possible option for improvement is Martial Stance: Aura of Perfect Order allowing for a more reliable first-turn powerup.

Epic. Just plain Epic. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=bKFwjFiAerE&NR=1)

[Greenish]

Fail Speak Language 3 times and your tongue expands and you choke?I can see a DM who'd use fumble rules also making people roll Speak Language checks to speak (and probably Dex checks to operate door handles).


(And by good I mean Ravens are usually associated with Evil.Maybe your beguiler isn't that prejudiced? :smalltongue:

Ravens are associated with many things (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RavensAndCrows).


what'd be a good level to aim at for the Sword Sage?What the DM says. :smalltongue:

I usually don't fully stat out characters until I have a game for them. Level 6 shouldn't be too difficult, though.

[INoKnowNames]

Yeah, before I move on, I definitely need to go over switching out lower level techniques for higher level ones.

1: As a Warblade, from Level 4 and every even level after that, I may switch -1- Maneuver I know for any maneuver I don't already know. Wish I could trade other maneuvers away with a bit of practice on them.... maybe some skill checks....

2: The Maneuver I pick must be within my initiator range, such as picking a 3rd level maneuver at Initiator 5, or trading a lower level maneuver for another 3rd Level at Warblade 6 (Initiator Level 6).

3: Stances count as Maneuvers for the sake of determining whether or not I meet the requirements for learning a maneuver. For example, the Punishing Stance counts as an Iron Heart Maneuver for the sake of prerequizits in learning a new Iron Heart Technique (such as Iron Heart Surge).

4: Stances can never be traded away. So I gotta pick the good ones.

5: The maneuver being traded away still counts for the prerequizite technique that I might be trading for it, at least so long as it matches the same school. For example, if I have the Punishing Stance Stance, and the Steel Wind Maneuver, I can trade Steel Wind and take Mithral Tornado with no problems. This one, I'm a little iffy on...

Anything else to make sure I know, or do I have the grasp of it?

[Greenish]

That's it. Now go forth and smash faces! :smallcool:

[INoKnowNames]

My Warblade is 100% done, then. And we just rolled listen and spot checks, and I saw something hidden in the trees. So I'm totally about to put him to work.

It was hard trying to decide what moves to get him. The only slightly lose thread in the tapestry of techniques is to keep Wall of Blades or trade it for Rapid Counter, and I'll judge it based on how many times I get incapacitated if I need it or not. I'm not Shock Troopering, so I'll probably be fine. I can post the projected skill set, but otherwise, it's totally time to move onto my Mystical Kung Fu Style Monk!

Although I don't think Kung Fu fits him, so much as Dual Wielding Power Up Stab-Stab-Stab does....

Human Level 6 SwordSage seems pretty good. Especially because Feats are so important, at least until Class Features can take over the glory. And I want to burn all of my Dragon Magazine Articles.

Not going unarmed, if only because I don't know if I can 2 Weapon with that. And I actually thought of a character who could do Unarmed Combat cooler. What was his name... Kazuya?

Trying 30 Point Buy. I'm not sure if I have it right, but I'm considering so far:

10-Strength: At least 10. Not focused on, but needs to be at least decent.
16-Dexterity: Maxed. Maxed some more. And then maxed again.
10-Constitution: At least 10, probably more than Strength, since dying stinks.
12-Intelligence: 6x Skill Points and Human means I need a +1 modifier max for all the skills I want (Balance+Dump, Tumble, Concentration, Jump, Hide, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Listen).
16-Wisdom: Could be good, considering all the bonuses the class gives to Wisdom, as well as Save Difficulty Checks on some attacks.
8-Charisma: .... This Sage/Assassin like character can either be shy, or a jerk. :smalltongue:

Feats include Adaptive Style at 1st Level, Two Weapon Fighting as Bonus, Weapon Finesse at 3rd, and Shadow Blade at 6th. Planned Increases into Dex and gained Improved and Greater Two Weapon Fighting.

Time Stands Still with 3 Bonus Attacks each sounds pretty cool.... STAB-STAB-STAB-STAB-STAB-STAB-STAB-STAB-STAB-STAB-STAB-STAB WRRRY!

[INoKnowNames]

Actually... Right now, though, I have a -bunch- of new questions I'm trying to get answered, and would enjoy any responce I can get on them.

Barbarian Questions

I was going to go, and probably still will go, with the female feral friend of the forest furiously fighting her foes. However, I was watching Tv, and was reminded of another character who would make a pretty darn good Barbarian. However, he comes with a few issues the base class, fluff, and crunch might not be able to match up to. First of all, his unarmed damage with just his arm needs to be -insane-. Whenever he punches someone, with or without his power, they need to -hurt-. What can I do to make this stronger? And second, I need a variant of Rage that's stronger than basic Rage. Being able to go from one to the other, or advance dirrectly into the stronger, so long as I have the ability to use the former, is good. I was considering Frenzied Berzerker to satisfy both, but the "turn on and kill your own allies" aspect doesn't flow too well... I don't think I'd use Pounce for him, since he's less combo-y and more mega punchy. Unlike with the BFS concept, I accept that he might require some magic to really emulate, but it's worth asking if it could be done with just levels in Barbarian and Barbarian Prestige Classes. Otherwise, I'll probably go back to the Lioness themed Warrior...

Ranger Questions

Then there's the Ranger. I kinda got used to the idea of using the Swordsage for Two Weapon fighting, and decided that the Ranger (or Druid, which ever would be appropriate) would be an Archer. I actually don't think I have too much to ask. Mainly how Composite Bows work, and whether or not a Medium sized Ranger can Mount a Medium sized animal, like a Wolf. For the most part, the Ranger would take all of the other feats, and use the Combat Styles for Bow work. On a random note, can I use Zen Archery to get both Dex and Wisdom to attack rolls, and a Composite to get both Strength (what little I'd have) and Dex to Damage?

Divine Caster Questions

In addition to an Arcane Caster, I would like to try a Supportive Divine Caster (since it's already easy enough to play an offensive one). What options are there beyond the Cloistered Cleric for higher power level games and the Healer for lower power level games?

Also, I was under the assumption, what with there being a handful of people who note that a party simply needs a Wand of Healing (pick your flavor), that being support was a suboptimal role in the party. Although my definition of support is mainly in hit point and status repair, so there might be other ways to support that I simply haven't considered yet.


Arcane Caster Questions

I like the spontaneous casting of the Sorcerer, who can use any spell from his list at any time without needing to prepare so long as he has slots remaining. But the base Sorcerer class strikes me as boring in terms of class features and skills. And while spells easily get around this, I still kinda prefer a mix of all three. Beguiler looks pretty good for this kinda thing, but are there any other takers for such a position?

Swordsage Questions

And back to the Swordsage. While I'm still working on it, I had a question or two about a few techniques. How, exactly, does Moment of Alacrity work? +20 to initiative at any time I want. I'm not exactly certain how changing it helps me. I'd just be going before everyone else on my next turn, right? On my Warblade, I decided he'd go with Iron Heart Endurance over it, but if I can figure it out for my Swordsage, I'd give it a shot. I also wanted to think a bit about Combos. The first one that came to mind was Inferno Blade + Avalanche of Blades. Can I perform an extra hit per attack, or just the number of them for each of the Two Weapon Feats that I've learned so far? Also, Two Weapon Fighting + Time Stands Still. Am I capable of doing so? What about with Dancing/Raging Mongoose? 3 Attacks on a Full Attack, + 3 Attacks from Two Weapon Fighting, + 4 Attacks from Two Weapon Fighting Raging Mongoose. Times 2 in Time Stands Still? That's like, 20 attacks! Does that actually work as written? And I thought I read somewhere about the Snap Kick Feat to make that 22 attacks.... Power Attacking or not, that's painful.... If only I could attack multiple enemies around me in a Full Attack, that would be -awesome-... Heck, add Rising Phoenix stance for a little extra damage.... While I try to stop thinking about yelling out various combo phrases from Video Games, I also want to ask about Setting Sun's various throw moves, specifically Tornado Throw as an example. I toss the target in any dirrection I want by doing a successful trip, then chase it and throw it again? Can I choose the distance that the enemy gets thrown? And I suppose this would be a general question about the Tome of Battle, but about Adaptive Stance: I can't use it and a Swift Action Maneuver (like Quicksilver Motion or Shadow Blink), can I?

Crusader Questions

Considering all of the action packed goodness in Swordsage's Desert Wind, Shadow Hand, Tiger Claw,and Setting Sun moves (although Diamond Mind -will- be getting plenty of use), and the awesomeness of the Warblade's Iron Heart and Diamond Mind, I suppose I'll have to try out a Crusader that uses White Raven, Devoted Spirit, and Stone Dragon (it's so hard to fit that last one into a build because there's so much other goodness about...). So this is my Crusader question block. First, why are the Crusader stances so unalined? You'd think they'd have a stance progression that would enable them to choose uper level stances right. Warblade has a similar problem with his level 3 stance, but my DM for that character is being nice and letting me wait a level or two before taking another stance, so I can get Absolute Steel. But why does Crusder have such issues? I bet Swordsage does, too. Just haven't looked hard enough. Also, which would be more effective in creating a Lock Down build: A Pure Crusader, or a Fighter with some Crusader levels so I can gain all of the lock down feats and stuff? I'll probably make 1 Crusader (with maybe a few different levels, so long as I can still get 9th Level Maneuvers) as a simple Tank with those awesome shield moves (might try an outright Shield Fighter for it, actually).
Leader-like Classes.

I'd probably use the Crusader as an awesome leader ('cause White Raven and all that good stuff), but I was also considering the Bard (or maybe Noble from DragonLance). I like trying to write down my thoughts so I can apply them later, and I also seem to have here written down that I might try Rogue for a leader like class as well. I don't know what I was thinking... Which one sounds like it could be the easiest to play in such a role?

Why does no one like these classes again?

I know I shouldn't be opening up a can of worms, but while I'm asking about classes, I kinda want to open up a can of worms. What's wrong with the Truenamer and (other than a lack of synergy in class abilities) the Monk? I'd never choose a Monk anyway because being Lawful stinks (same for the regular Paladin, although I'd consider some of the UA Variants), but just curious.

Fixed a little section that I was definitely confused on.

[Urpriest]

Actually... Right now, though, I have a -bunch- of new questions I'm trying to get answered, and would enjoy any responce I can get on them.

Barbarian Questions

I was going to go, and probably still will go, with the female feral friend of the forest furiously fighting her foes. However, I was watching Tv, and was reminded of another character who would make a pretty darn good Barbarian. However, he comes with a few issues the base class, fluff, and crunch might not be able to match up to. First of all, his unarmed damage with just his arm needs to be -insane-. Whenever he punches someone, with or without his power, they need to -hurt-. What can I do to make this stronger? And second, I need a variant of Rage that's stronger than basic Rage. Being able to go from one to the other, or advance dirrectly into the stronger, so long as I have the ability to use the former, is good. I was considering Frenzied Berzerker to satisfy both, but the "turn on and kill your own allies" aspect doesn't flow too well... I don't think I'd use Pounce for him, since he's less combo-y and more mega punchy. Unlike with the BFS concept, I accept that he might require some magic to really emulate, but it's worth asking if it could be done with just levels in Barbarian and Barbarian Prestige Classes. Otherwise, I'll probably go back to the Lioness themed Warrior...

Punching in general is dependent on size/effective size, with a bit of Power Attack or Str optimization thrown in. There's a guide for the former here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7081777) There are ways to get around the disadvantages of Frenzied Berserker, but if you want another sort of "higher rage" Berserker from Deities and Demigods has one. It requires a Standard Action to activate, which is obnoxious but could fit your "powering up" concept. All of this is doable with minimal to no casting.


Ranger Questions

Then there's the Ranger. I kinda got used to the idea of using the Swordsage for Two Weapon fighting, and decided that the Ranger (or Druid, which ever would be appropriate) would be an Archer. I actually don't think I have too much to ask. Mainly how Composite Bows work, and whether or not a Medium sized Ranger can Mount a Medium sized animal, like a Wolf. For the most part, the Ranger would take all of the other feats, and use the Combat Styles for Bow work. On a random note, can I use Zen Archery to get both Dex and Wisdom to attack rolls, and a Composite to get both Strength (what little I'd have) and Dex to Damage?

I don't know any straightforward ways to get Dex to damage with Bows, though I know some more obscure ways exist. You can't ride a Medium animal if you're Medium, but don't forget there are plenty of Small player races. Composite Bows are just normal Bows with slightly better stats, and the same proficiencies involved. Mighty Composite Bows add your Str bonus to damage, with more powerful expensive bows adding more of it. You can't use a Mighty Composite Bow with a higher Str rating than your bonus. Zen Archery replaces your Dex to attack with Wis, you don't use both.


Divine Caster Questions

I decided I want to try to learn a Divine Spell Caster, in addition to an Arcane Spell Caster. I'm looking for one with good out of combat options (via skills or some utility spells). But in combat, I'm actually more focused on using it to support the rest of the party, through healing and defensive spells and what not. The Beguiler's pretty good when it comes to skills, and has a nice Magic list, but I'm still not really feeling it for the sake of a divine spellcaster, mainly due to the offensive nature of most of the magic I saw it using, and the class features (which lead into the somewhat sneaky stealthish aspect that I'm not entirely fond of). Are there any other alternatives beyond it in terms of class features, or should I stick with the Cloistered Cleric / Healer? As suboptimal as it is, I like the idea of such a character being willing to stick to the sidelines and support people.

Could you clarify what you mean here? Beguilers are arcane, and support isn't suboptimal.


Arcane Caster Questions

As for the Arcane Caster, just for the sake of asking, are there any other Arcane Casters beyond the Sorcerer? I suppose Spells are awesome for out of combat utility, but I was hoping for a reason to have some Int. And I don't like Spellbooks. Planned Spells are cooler than having to study a book and defend it (although Most DMS aren't that mean... are they?)

I don't know what you mean by Planned Spells, but Beguilers are Int-based Arcane Spontaneous Casters.


Swordsage Questions

And back to the Swordsage. While I'm still working on it, I had a question or two about a few techniques. How, exactly, does Moment of Alacrity work? +20 to initiative at any time I want. I'm not exactly certain how changing it helps me. I'd just be going before everyone else on my next turn, right? On my Warblade, I decided he'd go with Iron Heart Endurance over it, but if I can figure it out for my Swordsage, I'd give it a shot. I also wanted to think a bit about Combos. The first one that came to mind was Inferno Blade + Avalanche of Blades. Can I perform an extra hit per attack, or just the number of them for each of the Two Weapon Feats that I've learned so far? Also, Two Weapon Fighting + Time Stands Still. Am I capable of doing so? What about with Dancing/Raging Mongoose? 3 Attacks on a Full Attack, + 3 Attacks from Two Weapon Fighting, + 4 Attacks from Two Weapon Fighting Raging Mongoose. Times 2 in Time Stands Still? That's like, 20 attacks! Does that actually work as written? And I thought I read somewhere about the Snap Kick Feat to make that 22 attacks.... Power Attacking or not, that's painful.... If only I could attack multiple enemies around me in a Full Attack, that would be -awesome-... Heck, add Rising Phoenix stance for a little extra damage.... While I try to stop thinking about yelling out various combo phrases from Video Games, I also want to ask about Setting Sun's various throw moves, specifically Tornado Throw as an example. I toss the target in any dirrection I want by doing a successful trip, then chase it and throw it again? Can I choose the distance that the enemy gets thrown? And I suppose this would be a general question about the Tome of Battle, but about Adaptive Stance: I can't use it and a Swift Action Maneuver (like Quicksilver Motion or Shadow Blink), can I?

TLDR, but most of this can be answered by reading the abilities and thinking about how many actions of each type you get in a typical round.


Crusader Questions

Considering all of the action packed goodness in Swordsage's Desert Wind, Shadow Hand, Tiger Claw,and Setting Sun moves (although Diamond Mind -will- be getting plenty of use), and the awesomeness of the Warblade's Iron Heart and Diamond Mind, I suppose I'll have to try out a Crusader that uses White Raven, Devoted Spirit, and Stone Dragon (it's so hard to fit that last one into a build because there's so much other goodness about...). So this is my Crusader question block. First, why are the Crusader stances so unalined? You'd think they'd have a stance progression that would enable them to choose uper level stances right. Warblade has a similar problem with his level 3 stance, but my DM for that character is being nice and letting me wait a level or two before taking another stance, so I can get Absolute Steel. But why does Crusder have such issues? I bet Swordsage does, too. Just haven't looked hard enough. Also, which would be more effective in creating a Lock Down build: A Pure Crusader, or a Fighter with some Crusader levels so I can gain all of the lock down feats and stuff? I'll probably make 1 Crusader (with maybe a few different levels, so long as I can still get 9th Level Maneuvers) as a simple Tank with those awesome shield moves (might try an outright Shield Fighter for it, actually).


The stance progression is widely thought to be a mistake, you should ask your DM to fix it. If not, you can dip another class to offset your progression. Swordsage is the only one that lines up right. A Crusader with a few Fighter levels (or Knight levels) would probably be the best of those options at lockdown.


Leader-like Classes.

I'd probably use the Crusader as an awesome leader ('cause White Raven and all that good stuff), but I was also considering the Bard (or maybe Noble from DragonLance). I like trying to write down my thoughts so I can apply them later, and I also seem to have here written down that I might try Rogue for a leader like class as well. I don't know what I was thinking... Which one sounds like it could be the easiest to play in such a role?

Noble is pretty much just a worse Bard, no reason to use it. Bard and Crusader get along nicely with the Song of the White Raven feat, so you can do both!


Why does no one like these classes again?

I know I shouldn't be opening up a can of worms, but while I'm asking about classes, I kinda want to open up a can of worms. What's wrong with the Truenamer and (other than a lack of synergy in class abilities) the Monk? I'd never choose a Monk anyway because being Lawful stinks (same for the regular Paladin, although I'd consider some of the UA Variants), but just curious.

And yes, this is a shameless repost of the first page's edit. Don't judge me.

Truenamers have DCs that scale too fast without heavy optimization, and at the end of the day don't do much anyway. Zaq played one, read his guide so you can keep being able to taste icecream (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114269). Monks have the lack of synergy: Flurry gives more attacks at a penalty on a full attack, speed boost incentivizes not doing a full attack, almost all the other abilities are way too situational, and they can't take advantage of their flurry of attacks because their low BAB makes Power Attack unusable and they get no bonus damage without exploiting size increases.

[INoKnowNames]

Punching in general is dependent on size/effective size, with a bit of Power Attack or Str optimization thrown in. There's a guide for the former here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7081777) There are ways to get around the disadvantages of Frenzied Berserker, but if you want another sort of "higher rage" Berserker from Deities and Demigods has one. It requires a Standard Action to activate, which is obnoxious but could fit your "powering up" concept. All of this is doable with minimal to no casting.

I would forget the link that referenced the character whose spirit I wanted to emulate that noted doing so might require casting. I just can't stop making mistakes, can I...

I didn't know that Power attacking without a Weapon was a viable strategy.... especially without a 2 handed Weapon... It'd be cool to make your arm count as a 2 handed weapon somehow...

For all of those classes that note advancing Monk levels for unarmed attack, are you required to have been a Monk for those bonuses to stack?

I managed to find the Berserker in the God Book (hidden -all- the way in the back). However, it still requires me to keep my allies away so I don't murder them (albeit at least giving me a Will Save to avoid doing so, but still). If there are ways to get around the Frenzied Berzerker's Killing Intent, I think I'd like to consider it over the plain Berzerker, since it at least has more power. Although any other second stage Rage class without the risk of slaughtering everyone I know and love would be cool (unless the ways to get around FB's KI are reliable enough). And I'm fine with a Standard Action to Power Up, despite the accepted combat risks to being vunerable by doing nothing during that action.


I don't know any straightforward ways to get Dex to damage with Bows, though I know some more obscure ways exist. You can't ride a Medium animal if you're Medium, but don't forget there are plenty of Small player races. Composite Bows are just normal Bows with slightly better stats, and the same proficiencies involved. Mighty Composite Bows add your Str bonus to damage, with more powerful expensive bows adding more of it. You can't use a Mighty Composite Bow with a higher Str rating than your bonus. Zen Archery replaces your Dex to attack with Wis, you don't use both.

I was under the assumption that Ranged Weapons, like the Bow, naturally had Dex to Attack and Damage Rolls. Just checked the SRD and learned that it's only for the Attack, not the Damage. As for Str to Damage, it's only for custom made Composite Bows, and Wis doesn't really help unless it's better than my Dex. Well dang. Archery is hard.... Understandably so, but still.

Any Small Race that's as awesome as a Human then, or any way to gain a Large Mount at a low level that isn't a Horse? I'll go with it if I have to, but I was hoping for something with a little more... flair.


Could you clarify what you mean here? Beguilers are arcane, and support isn't suboptimal.

I suppose I very much should clarify what I mean, since looking at it I can see that I got a -lot- of information mixed up. I'll edit those sections with simpler questions that make a bit more sense. Basically, for a Divine character, since I think I already understand how to play with one offensively, I'm looking to play one more Defensively. Are there any Support type Divine Casters to consider beyond the Healer or Cloistered Cleric?

And I was under the assumption that Support was suboptimal, but apparently there's other ways of supporting people beyond ensuring they stay alive and fresh through restorative spells...


I don't know what you mean by Planned Spells, but Beguilers are Int-based Arcane Spontaneous Casters.

Again, this comes from me getting my information right. I know I'm not the only person who constantly knows what they want to say in their heads, but it gets messed up and jumbled out and comes across as insane when I try to communicate it. I prefer the Sorcerer (who have a permanent yet shorter list of spells known rather than knowing every single spell in existance and needing to prepare each one, in addition to being forced to study and add to his spell book in order to gain more of them) as my template Arcane Caster. However, between a lack of skill synergy (and while spells are a perfect means and end in and of themselves, I like the option of skills for out of combat utility) and few class features (again, Spells are cool, and a familiar is good, but other than that, 19 dead levels seems kinda... eh), I was hoping there were other Arcane Casters similar to the Sorceror in it's spell casting ability, but with more features.

Actually, now that I go back and read and look with my eyes open, the Beguiler seems like what I'm looking for. I thought I saw it in Complete Divine for some reason, which probably led to at least some of my earlier confusion.


TLDR, but most of this can be answered by reading the abilities and thinking about how many actions of each type you get in a typical round.

I like the Tome of Battle classes. They're fun, and there's all sorts of goodies in them. Just gotta make sure that everything syncs properly. I'll try to make a bit more sense.

If I use Avalanche of Blades, am I capable of making any additional attacks during it by using any Feats that would give multiple attacks on a Full Attack?

Can I, as written, combine Time Stands Still (which gives me 2 Full Attacks, and as a Swordsage, that would be 3 basic attacks per full attack) with Two Weapon Fighting (gaining 3 more attacks, albeit at lesser bonuses, per full attack), and Raging Mongoose (gaining 4 more attacks, 2 per each hand, per full attack), for a total of 20 attacks (+2, one kick per each full attack, if I use Snap Kick as well)? I feel like there's nothing wrong with this as written (although I'd need to check and see how huge a penalty to my attacks I'd have for doing all of this), but I just want to make sure.

Since most of the Setting Sun Throws involve a Trip Attack, would I be able to attack the target again during the move if I had Improved Trip?

I feel like the Power's on but the Light Bulb is off, but I still don't get how Moment of Alacrity works...

From what I know, using the basic way to refresh a maneuver (Crusader naturally gets his back, Warblades must use a Swift Action + An Attack (Standard/Full) or Standard to do nothing, and Swordsages use a Full Round to get 1 back (fail)) means you can't perform any other sublime way technique during the round. Is this the same with the Adaptive Style feat, which only requires a Full Round Action (possibly enabling Swift Action Techniques) to refresh all of your moves?


The stance progression is widely thought to be a mistake, you should ask your DM to fix it. If not, you can dip another class to offset your progression. Swordsage is the only one that lines up right. A Crusader with a few Fighter levels (or Knight levels) would probably be the best of those options at lockdown.

I was looking up a Knight, and it sounded cool... then I saw that it was Lawful. Fighter Crusader Lock Down build it is.


Noble is pretty much just a worse Bard, no reason to use it. Bard and Crusader get along nicely with the Song of the White Raven feat, so you can do both!

The two do seem oddly ... related, actually. Maybe enough levels in Bard and I can offset the Crusader's stance progression and gain the Devoted Spirit Final Stance, and be rendered unkillable....

Hm... A Shield Fighting Bardic Crusader Who Leads, Tanks, and Supports. Can I add Ninja and maybe some Blasting to this build and just call myself the Red Mage?


Truenamers have DCs that scale too fast without heavy optimization, and at the end of the day don't do much anyway. Zaq played one, read his guide so you can keep being able to taste icecream (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114269).

..... What.


Monks have the lack of synergy: Flurry gives more attacks at a penalty on a full attack, speed boost incentivizes not doing a full attack, almost all the other abilities are way too situational, and they can't take advantage of their flurry of attacks because their low BAB makes Power Attack unusable and they get no bonus damage without exploiting size increases.

Lack of synergy is that bad, huh...

Thank you for the swift responce, and for your time.

[INoKnowNames]

How much of the Polymorph spell is a player capable of controling? Are they capable of staying at a normal size, for example? Or do they have to shift into the size of the new form? Although now that I'm looking dirrectly at the stat block, a Black Bear is a medium sized creature, so that's actually not much of a problem... I suppose a bigger problem is why the book says this:


His
only limit on the number of times per day he can assume a
bear form is the number of times per day he enters a rage or
frenzy, and the bear warrior returns to his own form once
the rage or frenzy ends.

and then says this:


Any bear warrior can assume the form of a black bear once per day. At 5th level, a bear warrior can assume bear form twice per day. At 10th level, a bear warrior can assume bear form three times per day.

Otherwise, this class (Bear Warrior) can relatively be refluffed into the concept that I'm looking for. Although I still feel like considering the Berserker Classes, since they don't require the same level of refluffing to do. Although then again, they also make me murder my allies... I still can't figure out any way for myself to get around that. It seems like, from my reading, that I'd have to have the allies sorta trick me while I'm in that form, like by flying beyond my reach or throwing things for me to attack until I've finished my rage. There's nothing I can do (baring the Will to end it), is there?