[3.5] Choosing a Primeval Form

[Geigan]

I've got an upcoming campaign with some new players and there are enough that I feel comfortable playing something with simple options that I've always wanted to try because I liked the concept. Primeval from Frostburn is essentially a PrC with it's own little quirky version of wildshape allowing you to take a form while still taking advantage of your base physical stats. We're going to be playing in a naval themed campaign where we get to control our own ship so something aquatic would be the order of the day. I'm a dragonborn so I'm trying to find some sort of sea dragon like thing that isn't over 8 HD and large size or lower, but I'd live with anything that has decent physical stats and plenty of natural attacks. We play with pretty much any 3.5 source and I'll look at anything that qualifies to be a primeval form.

Note: I am aware of how bad this PrC is. I have a build laid out to make it at least passable as a party's frontliner so I should be effective enough to keep up with the rest of the newbies. Don't worry about that. All I'm asking for is suggestions on the Primeval form since it's an important choice that can't be changed and will effect how I play the character greatly.

That said I was looking at perhaps a Dire Shark since that's just within the HD cap or maybe a giant octopus if the DM counts it as prehistoric enough. Other suggestions to turn my character into a prehistoric terror from the deep?

[Treblain]

Dinosaurs are prehistoric. Megaraptor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dinosaur.htm#megaraptor)has 8 HD. It's not aquatic, but you'll have a high Strength, so just invest in Swim. If you care more about the swimming aspect, try to find stats for some kind of shark or giant squid.

The class is actually pretty good, if you enter as a wildshape ranger. You can get the prereqs easily, and you can use wildshape uses to take your primeval form. Also take Warshaper for immunity to critical hits, extra natural attacks (which you can use with Pounce), and stat bonuses.

[Geigan]

Dinosaurs are prehistoric. Megaraptor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dinosaur.htm#megaraptor)has 8 HD. It's not aquatic, but you'll have a high Strength, so just invest in Swim. If you care more about the swimming aspect, try to find stats for some kind of shark or giant squid.

The class is actually pretty good, if you enter as a wildshape ranger. You can get the prereqs easily, and you can use wildshape uses to take your primeval form. Also take Warshaper for immunity to critical hits, extra natural attacks (which you can use with Pounce), and stat bonuses.

Land based forms are easy to come by. Frostburn's own suggestion of dire lion is pretty solid, but I'd personally want something to go with an aquatic theme. Finding aquatic dinosaurs would be awesome, but I have yet to find anything within the prereqs. Stormwrack was particularly disappointing in this regard unless I get the sudden urge to become a dire eel or barracuda.:smallannoyed:

It's actually a pretty bad PrC though for the prereqs alone and class features that only really amount to some bigger numbers, but I don't care I like it anyway. I was going wildshape ranger with a couple levels of totemist to help with natural attacks and to make toughness a less painful prereq via azure toughness. That'll get me in one level later than the earliest possible, but that's ok since 2 levels of totemist is always awesome(and a DM that waives multiclass penalties makes it better). Essentially, WS ranger 7/totemist 2/Primeval 10 was my original build. One extra level so I was thinking a swordsage or warblade level to open up a slight bit of versatility or warshaper now that you mention it. Not necessarily at the very end though, as a one level delay won't be that big a deal in the middle of primeval most of the time. I'll see how it goes.

[Tvtyrant]

What about a Giant Squid or Giant Octopus? You get to be big and aquatic, and you gain the benefit of tons of limbs to fight with.

[Geigan]

That said I was looking at perhaps a Dire Shark since that's just within the HD cap or maybe a giant octopus if the DM counts it as prehistoric enough. Other suggestions to turn my character into a prehistoric terror from the deep?


What about a Giant Squid or Giant Octopus? You get to be big and aquatic, and you gain the benefit of tons of limbs to fight with.

Great idea, glad I thought of it.:smallwink: Giant squid is just out of reach though and these forms might not qualify as prehistoric enough by the DM's interpretation. I'll ask but I wish there was a dire version for my purposes that wouldn't go over the HD cap. Any other cool forms out there? Something for a dragonborn dedicated to protecting the deeps in Bahamut's name?

[NeoSeraphi]

Ask and you shall receive. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12465151#post12465151)

[KoboldCleric]

Cryptoclidus from MMII looks decent.

[Geigan]

Ask and you shall receive. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12465151#post12465151)

Nice and simple, I likes. That's a nice option to have if my DM feels inclined to allow some homebrew. Rather high strength and con for that HD though don't you think? Most of what I've found would be in the 18-20 range on their best physical stats. In fact if I didn't know better I'd say you created that specifically for moi as a nice 8HD monster that has powerful physical stats and is perfect for a primeval. But perhaps I'm looking a gift horse in the mouth and deserve to be bitten for reading too much into it.:smallwink:


Cryptoclidus from MMII looks decent.
That's surprisingly good for only 3HD, though for this and the above homebrew I'd most likely have to work that totemist bind and some imp./superior unarmed strike to make up for the lack of attacks to put the stats to use on. Both are nice though.:smallbiggrin:

Any other forms? I'm collecting possible options to decide upon. I've got plenty of time to make it since the campaign hasn't started yet and I don't start off high enough to start Primeval.

[Urpriest]

Depending on whether you allow Dragon material, there was a Dragon awhile back with a whole bunch of dinosaurs including some solid aquatic ones (and a few adorable familiars). AFB atm so I can't check which.

[Geigan]

Depending on whether you allow Dragon material, there was a Dragon awhile back with a whole bunch of dinosaurs including some solid aquatic ones (and a few adorable familiars). AFB atm so I can't check which.
After some googling I believe dragon 318 may have been the one though it's merely the one I found googling a bunch of terms together. Had a really neat little bugger called a Helicoprion with exactly 8HD, large size, some decent physicals, and some really neat special abilities. Only one natural bite attack though it does look vicious at that. I'd daresay it's strongest contender among those that only have a single natural attack for a form. Definitely usable with some totemist+unarmed strike optimization though a form with some extra natural attacks might beat it out. Best I've found so far though.