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Adicted To
2012-01-02, 02:35 PM
I was thinking about Kilkil joining the Linear guild. He is a kobold with wings and he possibly has class levels since he is joining the guild (and it would be a perfect anti climax if he is a very capable character).

So I checked the monster manual and I couldn’t find any references to Kobold’s with wings. I also can’t remember any other Kobold’s with wings in OOTS. However I happened to remember a prestige class that grants physical wings to a character.

The Dragon Disciple (Dungeon Masters Handbook page 183), requirements:

• Race: Any nondragon - Kilkil is a Kobold (a nondragon)
• Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks – fifth level with Knowledge (arcane) as a class skill
• Languages: Draconic – Automatic language for a Kobold (Bonus Language: Common, Undercommon)
• Spellcasting: Ability to cast arcane spells without preparation – Favored Class for a Kobold is the Sorcerer

At 9th level, a Dragon Deciple grows a set of draconic wings. He may now fly at a speed equal to his normal land speed, with average maneuverability.

I think he is at least a sorcerer/dragon deciple 5th/9th(but he is probably of Belkar’s level). He fits the description and as far as I know there is no proof to the contrary.

Anybody has an other idea/explanation for the wings?

Winged789
2012-01-02, 02:43 PM
Well he may also be a high level favored soul, though that me be somwhat unlikely.
There is also a winged template in savage species which is just something he would be born with. in addition there is some kind of class called a grafter I think that can graft things like wings onto stuff.

Of the list here dragon disciple seems the most likely, but acquiring wings is actually something there are a lot of ways to do, so I would not call itt a sure thing.

Gift Jeraff
2012-01-02, 02:47 PM
Urd or dragonwrought kobold is a possibility, I think. Though urds seem to be portrayed as having their arms and wings attached. EDIT: Though the fact that even Tarquin calls him a "flying kobold" makes me think he's not a subspecies or anything.

I'm personally going with Dragon Disciple 9/Sorcerer 6, or something around that ballpark. Darker reddish scales support having red dragon heritage or whatever. Sorcerers can have familiars, which is obviously good for a potential Mr. Scruffy counterpart. Plus the Chancellor of Tyrinaria was a wizard or sorcerer, so it fits.

Either that or a pathetic, low-level NPC class.

Dr.Epic
2012-01-02, 02:49 PM
I kind of think he just has NPC levels. He's just like an accountant. I don't see him going on adventurers before this.

Could also work as his opposite to Belkar: Belkar has two classes (barbarian/ranger) and Kilkil has no levels in a PC class.

Morty
2012-01-02, 02:51 PM
I remain doubtful that a 15th level chracter would be a pencil-pusher. An important pencil-pusher but a pencil-pusher all the same. Thus, I doubt Kilkil is a Dragon Disciple. Other than that, I don't think we have enough data to speculate. An NPC class would make sense for an accountant, but we don't really know anything about Kilkil, so he might have PC classes for some reason for all we know.

Dr.Epic
2012-01-02, 02:56 PM
I remain doubtful that a 15th level chracter would be a pencil-pusher. An important pencil-pusher but a pencil-pusher all the same. Thus, I doubt Kilkil is a Dragon Disciple. Other than that, I don't think we have enough data to speculate. An NPC class would make sense for an accountant, but we don't really know anything about Kilkil, so he might have PC classes for some reason for all we know.

Why? Why would he have to have a regular PC class? The guy has no reason to be proficient in weaponry or able to cast dangerous spells. He just files forms all day. Heck, didn't Shojo have like 15 levels of an NPC class? I think a king would have more use for PC class abilities than some accountant or whatever Kilkil's exact profession is.

rbetieh
2012-01-02, 03:04 PM
Why? Why would he have to have a regular PC class? The guy has no reason to be proficient in weaponry or able to cast dangerous spells. He just files forms all day. Heck, didn't Shojo have like 15 levels of an NPC class? I think a king would have more use for PC class abilities than some accountant or whatever Kilkil's exact profession is.

Why? For the Same reason the Green Hornet has Cato of course. Tarquin is some variation of the "The Kool Guys with ME!" build and KilKil happens to be that Kool Guy (which he conveniently picked up after his adventuring days were over, no one question my unquestionable illogic :smallbiggrin:)

Need_A_Life
2012-01-02, 03:12 PM
In Races of the Dragon there's a 1st-level-only Wings feat, that kobolds can take (if they're dragonwrought, they get to take it at 3rd). I also seem to remember some 2E variant kobolds with wings?

And for Kilkils class, I'd personally crack a smile if he identified as an archivist :smalltongue:

Morty
2012-01-02, 03:12 PM
Why? Why would he have to have a regular PC class? The guy has no reason to be proficient in weaponry or able to cast dangerous spells. He just files forms all day. Heck, didn't Shojo have like 15 levels of an NPC class? I think a king would have more use for PC class abilities than some accountant or whatever Kilkil's exact profession is.

You seem to have misunderstood my point. I'm saying it's not impossible that he has a PC class, because we know very little about him.

Adicted To
2012-01-02, 03:21 PM
Also even Kabuto had a prestige class. So why can't Kilkil have one? His race is perfect to become a sorcerer/dragon deciple.

Dr.Epic
2012-01-02, 03:40 PM
Why? For the Same reason the Green Hornet has Cato of course. Tarquin is some variation of the "The Kool Guys with ME!" build and KilKil happens to be that Kool Guy (which he conveniently picked up after his adventuring days were over, no one question my unquestionable illogic :smallbiggrin:)

Yeah, good point. It's not like Tarquin has Malack - a high level cleric - or an entire army to back him up or anything.:smallwink:


You seem to have misunderstood my point. I'm saying it's not impossible that he has a PC class, because we know very little about him.

Yeah, I get that. And what I'm saying is there's little point for him to have PC levels since he just files papers all day and there's not point for him to take such levels.

Esprit15
2012-01-02, 03:47 PM
Yeah, I get that. And what I'm saying is there's little point for him to have PC levels since he just files papers all day and there's not point for him to take such levels.Perhaps he took the levels earlier in life and has not leveled up in quite a while?

Dr.Epic
2012-01-02, 03:53 PM
Perhaps he took the levels earlier in life and has not leveled up in quite a while?

Maybe. Maybe not. I don't get why someone with such class levels would just go and become an accountant. What would be their mind set to do that? Wouldn't they keep adventuring? Or retire with enough gold to live off? The payment for one quest at low level is probably enough to live off for a year for a normal person.

DrBurr
2012-01-02, 04:01 PM
Why? Why would he have to have a regular PC class? The guy has no reason to be proficient in weaponry or able to cast dangerous spells. He just files forms all day. Heck, didn't Shojo have like 15 levels of an NPC class? I think a king would have more use for PC class abilities than some accountant or whatever Kilkil's exact profession is.

Well the western continent isn't exactly a civilized land, with kingdoms rising and falling every day and slave traders attacking caravans in the deserts would it be really far fetched that Kilkil took some levels in a PC class for protection. Or if he is a sorcerer like some are suggesting then he would have been born with magic.

I do agree though we really lack enough information to determine if Kilkil has PC class levels. So wouldn't be surprised if the giant reveals him to just be an NPC.

Adicted To
2012-01-02, 05:13 PM
As an extra, one of the western god's (Tiamath), loves Kobold's and dragons. So a Kobold that is a Dragon Disciple ain't such a strange idea.

Edit: I compleetly agree, there is no proof for any thing I have said until now. That is why I called the thread speculation

Blisstake
2012-01-02, 06:31 PM
I think he's an expert. The perfect class to manage their paperwork.

Also, I think he has wings because he is a winged kobold with no further explanation required. :smalltongue: (hey, we've got aquatic goblins, why not flying kobolds?)

Esprit15
2012-01-02, 06:51 PM
I think he's an expert. The perfect class to manage their paperwork.

Also, I think he has wings because he is a winged kobold with no further explanation required. :smalltongue: (hey, we've got aquatic goblins, why not flying kobolds?)

Aquatic goblins were a specific species of goblin mentioned in multiple books. As far as I know, a specific species of winged Kobold was never mentioned, but was cretable with templates and class abilities or feats.

Studoku
2012-01-02, 11:10 PM
Also even Kabuto had a prestige class. So why can't Kilkil have one? His race is perfect to become a sorcerer/dragon deciple.
http://guidesmedia.ign.com/guides/9846/images/kabuto.gif
Kabuto?

GreenSerpent
2012-01-03, 07:27 AM
I was wondering the same thing. Kabuto?

Cranica
2012-01-03, 08:11 AM
Obviously Disintegrate is Grass-type to one-shot him so easily.

(also, assuming anyone hasn't already figured this out, he meant Kubota, the deceased noble who tried to assassinate Hinjo)

Adicted To
2012-01-03, 10:10 AM
Yes I mean't Kubota, I must have failed a knowlege (OOTS and pokemon) check :smallsmile:

NerfTW
2012-01-03, 11:06 AM
I kind of think he just has NPC levels. He's just like an accountant. I don't see him going on adventurers before this.

Could also work as his opposite to Belkar: Belkar has two classes (barbarian/ranger) and Kilkil has no levels in a PC class.

I like the idea that Kil Kil has no actual PC levels as well. It would require a bit more innovation in his attacks than simply "attack the PC", which is all the previous kobolds did. In fact, it would also play off the fact that Belkar and V beat the last two through trickery, not direct combat.

sirveaux
2012-01-03, 11:49 AM
Simply from the thread title, I thought it'd be amusing if Kilkil had an NPC class, especially if this is where Belkar bites the dust (not saying the time is now, just a what-if). I think it'd be a nice reference to the arena match with the Commoner. Either way, we obviously don't have enough info yet, but I also had a similar thought to the good Dr.'s.

Brumski
2012-01-03, 12:27 PM
I like the Dragon Disciple idea. Suitably powerful enough to tussle with Belkar, and a neat Core thing we haven't seen yet.
Add in some joke about,
"Why is such a powerful character an accountant"
" I'm a Dragon Disciple, I do whatever the Empress needs"

On the flip-side, it would also be funny for Roy to assume that Kilkil is some kind of badass since he's with Tarquin, expecting Belkar's prophecy to come about, just for Belkar to calmly slay with, with some off-hand remark from Tarquin to finish the punchline.

Anyway, he's a good Straight Man to Belkar's Bumbling Sidekick, as far as Tarquin knows.

Blisstake
2012-01-03, 01:12 PM
Aquatic goblins were a specific species of goblin mentioned in multiple books. As far as I know, a specific species of winged Kobold was never mentioned, but was cretable with templates and class abilities or feats.

There are flying kobolds as a race. I belive they are called Urds.

Even if there weren't, there's nothing wrong with inventing a race of flying kobolds.

Adicted To
2012-01-03, 01:18 PM
Urds are not in the monster manual. (3.5 edition)

HerbieRAI
2012-01-03, 02:00 PM
I can see Kilkil having a PC class. Remember, they belong to one of the 3 great empires in the western continent, so he currently has more power and is probably making more money than he could adventuring. Also, he does not have near the death risk that adventuring has. It's a win win for an intelligent character, abiet less interesting from a role playing perspective.

Scrynor
2012-01-03, 04:04 PM
I think it makes sense for KilKil to have class levels without ever being a typical adventurer. I think it's reasonable to assume that he was originally attached to the Empress and not to Team Tarquin. Tarquin doesn't just support any old person when he puts a new ruler on the throne, he attaches himself to a viable challenger as general and high priest. As a viable challenger to the throne the Empress must have had some high level followers. Why not KilKil? Once she's on the throne it makes sense that a dragon disciple would continue to serve her in some high ranking official capacity.

Blisstake
2012-01-03, 08:53 PM
Urds are not in the monster manual. (3.5 edition)

Neither are the aquatic hobgoblins, and yet...

Mike_the_Mystic
2012-01-04, 01:19 AM
A fine specimen of an Urd:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm_gallery/KoboldLizardTrogUrd.jpg

Honestly I think he's just a dragonwrought, probably an expert or something. However, I'm pretty sure he's going to kill Belkar with his paperwork.

Edit: A little off-topic, but I for one think that the Urd in that picture looks adorable.

OrzhvoPatriarch
2012-01-04, 01:37 AM
I'm going to go with doppleganger rouge assassin, but thats just my gut feeling.

brionl
2012-01-04, 06:16 PM
I'm going to go with Dragonwrought Kobold race, Expert class.
He probably got a bunch of exp when he "lost the paperwork" for Enor and Ganji while they were on trial. :)

By-the-book half-dragons only get wings if they are large sized.

Who149
2012-01-04, 06:30 PM
maybe a Non-Player class? I mean, they didn't recruit him for his combat abilities, they just needed a kobold that will probably be mercilessly killed by Belkar.

Adicted To
2012-01-05, 11:57 AM
That's what they want you to think :smalleek:

Wrecan
2012-01-06, 07:05 PM
what I'm saying is there's little point for him to have PC levels since he just files papers all day and there's not point for him to take such levels.

He pushes papers in an bloody tyrannical empire where even public figures can be assassinated without notice for a slip of the tongue. I think the shrewd people do what they can to boost defenses and hp, and the best way to do that is to start building up class levels.

But keep in mind that sorcerer isn't a class you choose (or opt out of). It's in the blood. If Kilkil is a sorcerer, he was born that way. (Start of Darkness makes that all too clear.) So he couldn't opt out of it, even if all he plans to do with his time is push papers. Once he hit fifth level, and realize he had the prerequisites for Dragon Disciple, he had no reason to avoid the prestige class. He immediately gets more Fortitude, Will, and AC, all good things to have in a kingdom chock-ful of bounty hunters and assassins. And he is quite literally a disciple of a dragon (empress). Nine more levels later and voila. Wings. And a breath weapon. Sweet.

Lord Bingo
2012-01-06, 07:29 PM
maybe a Non-Player class? I mean, they didn't recruit him for his combat abilities, they just needed a kobold that will probably be mercilessly killed by Belkar.
My thoughts exactly. The Linear Guild always had a kobold and Kilkil was at hand...

Mark Hall
2012-01-07, 11:06 PM
The Mod Wonder: Do not reopen closed threads, including Class and Level Geekery.