Help with ECL, can higher be a good thing?

[Campbellk8105]

Hello all, I've come for help on understanding ECL.

In a campaign I'm in, we were just given a God wish from a greater deity for breaking him out of a tomb he was trapped in. The God wish essentially is a perfect wish, and we could Ussr it to get crazy good stuff. Nothing completely farfetched but still awesome.

Anyways, my level 19, druid 9/planar shepherd 10 human wished to be a paragon out of ELH. My DM allowed it, so my CR went up by 15. Now my ECL is 34.

Now that my ECL is at 34, I was wondering how spellcasting would be affected. Since my ECL is that high, is that my new caster level or do I stick with the 19?

Is there anything it helps/affects? Are there other issues it may cause other than taking forever to level again, or is it just like a big LA and does nothing but hinder me. (Aside from the awesomesauce of paragon)

[Helldog]

Paragon doesn't have an LA, so your ECL is actually unknown.

Your caster level is 19. You get it for levels in Druid or a casting PrC that progresses Druid. Paragon doesn't progress it.

[Flickerdart]

It's up to your DM to determine what the LA of Paragon is, and thereafter you gain that much LA. It does not affect your casting. Assuming that he says the LA is the same as the CR increase (+15), you're now a 34th level character and are entitled to the WBL for that level, though.

[Urpriest]

It hinders you because now you're an inappropriate level for the party, so the DM has incentive to make you roll a new character.

[Campbellk8105]

Well, the campaign is going to be ending this weekend so making a new character wont be an issue.

As for the LA, yes the CR is the LA we're using so I have the ECL of 34.

Some of the other people wishes were:
The favoured soul wished for divine power, righteous might and a few others to cast as a free action.
Another become gestalt with a monk.
The bear warrior can turn into a titanic legendary polar bear.
The cleric can cast any cleric spell spontaneously.
The barbarian can as a standard action, mimic any class ability from classes that have full BAB.

[IdleMuse]

Some of the other people wishes were:
The favoured soul wished for divine power, righteous might and a few others to cast as a free action.
Another become gestalt with a monk.
The bear warrior can turn into a titanic legendary polar bear.
The cleric can cast any cleric spell spontaneously.
The barbarian can as a standard action, mimic any class ability from classes that have full BAB.

I can't help but think that the barbarian got shafted :P I really can't think of many class abilities worth wasting a standard action on that a high-level barbarian really wants...

Gestalt with Monk sounds awesome and flavourful, just the kind of thing I'd give out as a DM if I wanted fairly character-changing rewards; cool, but not tooo powerful. Same with the titanic polar bear :D

[Helldog]

I would wish for changing my race to something powerful. like a Solar or something, depending on my characters class, alignment and concept.

[Prime32]

I can't help but think that the barbarian got shafted :P I really can't think of many class abilities worth wasting a standard action on that a high-level barbarian really wants...Wouldn't that allow him to use all maneuvers at will? Including using full-round-action ones as a standard action?
Or cast spells as a duskblade/hexblade/paladin/ranger...

[Campbellk8105]

I can't help but think that the barbarian got shafted :P I really can't think of many class abilities worth wasting a standard action on that a high-level barbarian really wants...

Gestalt with Monk sounds awesome and flavourful, just the kind of thing I'd give out as a DM if I wanted fairly character-changing rewards; cool, but not tooo powerful. Same with the titanic polar bear :D

Well the barbarian wished to be the ultimate warrior, so I gave the DM the idea that somewhat mimics the chameleon class. As a standard action he can change what fighter type class(full BAB) that he wants to and keep all his normal paladin/barbarian abilities. As an example, he can spend a standard action and act as a knight. He gets to use every knight ability he wants based on his level. He could use all the shield benefits. He gets tired of night, now he can change to a ranger with a bow and get favored enemies.

The titanic legendary polar bear was my idea again for the bear warrior.

Me getting the paragon stuff is just awesome as is.

The DM was going to be funny because the sorcerers wish was, "I wish for the wisdom and knowledge of my teacher." His teacher was a monk so the DM was going to turn him into a monk but thought it'd be cruel so he made him gestalt.

[Campbellk8105]

Wouldn't that allow him to use all maneuvers at will? Including using full-round-action ones as a standard action?
Or cast spells as a duskblade/hexblade/paladin/ranger...

Sorry for double post.

No use of spell casting or maneuvers are allowed.

[GernifTheBard]

Wouldn't that allow him to use all maneuvers at will? Including using full-round-action ones as a standard action?
Couldn't it also get him animal companions (ranger)/familiars (hexblade) of a 20th level character as a standard action? Or all those Knight goodies like Bulwark of Defense, and Loyal Beyond Death, and +9d6 sneak attack and Demoralize as a swift action from Sneak Attack Zhentarim Fighter? :smallamused:

EDIT: nevermind

[IdleMuse]

Okay, it's a little better since it's a standard action to activate, then 'stays on' until he switches. I was thinking along the lines of a 1 round duration for some reason. Still not great though compared to spont casting the cleric list, gestalting, or at-will free action spells.

[tyckspoon]

Okay, it's a little better since it's a standard action to activate, then 'stays on' until he switches. I was thinking along the lines of a 1 round duration for some reason. Still not great though compared to spont casting the cleric list, gestalting, or at-will free action spells.

If you can use Prestige Classes for the target, you might get somewhere (although most of the best Full-BAB prestige classes are.. spellcasting or maneuver-advancing -_- Eternal Blade is pretty awesome even without the maneuvers, tho.) If it's restricted to base classes, yeah.. it's a neat ability, but powerwise it's not worth all that much compared to the other boons (best I could think of would actually be using it to mimic the Fighter- a set of 7 Fighter Bonus Feats that you can change on the fly would let you use whatever set of trick feats you felt like.)

[Heliomance]

Is Totemist full BAB?

[Flickerdart]

Is Totemist full BAB?
The Soulborn is the only full-BAB meldshaper.

[Tyndmyr]

I can't help but think that the barbarian got shafted :P I really can't think of many class abilities worth wasting a standard action on that a high-level barbarian really wants...

Gestalt with Monk sounds awesome and flavourful, just the kind of thing I'd give out as a DM if I wanted fairly character-changing rewards; cool, but not tooo powerful. Same with the titanic polar bear :D

Surely you jest...Oh look, as a standard action, I have Paladin spellcasting. Or "favored enemy(this dude)", or a ranger animal companion. Or whatever...this guy chose well. It's awesome, flexible, and probably boosts him a tier. It has no tradeoff like LA.

[Helldog]

Surely you jest...Oh look, as a standard action, I have Paladin spellcasting. Or "favored enemy(this dude)", or a ranger animal companion. Or whatever...this guy chose well. It's awesome, flexible, and probably boosts him a tier. It has no tradeoff like LA.
Give idleMuse some slack, he didn't know how this actually worked, it was explained some time after he made that post.

[Campbellk8105]

Yes, no LA trade off or anything for the barbarian. When he uses it, he gets to keep all the abilities he already has.

Also, he can't "change" into prestige classes. I tried to swing that it wouldn't be too terrible to allow prestige classes since the use of spell casting and maneuvers were thrown out the window out of fear he'd be too strong that way.

[Flickerdart]

Allowing PrCs would give the barbarian 9th level casting from every domain via Divine Crusader, so that's a good call.

[Socratov]

lol, the barbarian actually has the best goodie, there are a lot of full bab classes out there (esp. PrC)
for instance: he now has followers like a Dread Pirate 10, be an anointed knight for a day, ride unicorns like a beloved of valarian (this would actually be very funny...), a bear warrior, he can be like a blackguard of his level :)

he could actually do very funny things with this...

seen as the çr difference is 15 on your paragon template, but it doesnt advance spellcasting or any of your class abilities... I'd say the LA beïng 10 would allready be enough of a punishment...

[Pilo]

You must be kidding Socratov!

It worth a priceless ECL (well at least 40)

Link to Parangon : http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm

+15 to all characteristics
+20 to each attack dammages
+25 to hit

Furthermore it give you 2 bonus spells per day to almost every levels.

[DoctorGlock]

Allowing PrCs would give the barbarian 9th level casting from every domain via Divine Crusader, so that's a good call.

Divine Crusader is 3/4 BAB

[Heliomance]

You must be kidding Socratov!

It worth a priceless ECL (well at least 40)

Link to Parangon : http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm

+15 to all characteristics
+20 to each attack dammages
+25 to hit

Furthermore it give you 2 bonus spells per day to almost every levels.

Seriously? That's not even slightly worth 40 LA.
Give Paragon to a level 1 commoner. By your reckoning, that should make him ECL 41, maybe 40. I reckon that a reasonably optimised level 5 group could take him easily. At level 10 he'd be destroyed. A level 40 party wouldn't even notice him.

[Helldog]

Level 40 party would be way over his CR.

[Campbellk8105]

The group is level 19 across the board.

The LA/CR 15 doesn't bother me. Paragon gives me way too many goodies to care. Max HP, plus an extra 12 HP per HD, yes please. All my saves, hits, damage, and stats go up. Paragon is just awesome to me.

The only thing that sucks, is I'm 2 class levels away from Epic spellcasting, so its going to take awhile to level.

All and all, I think my paragon druid/planar shepherd(fernia) is awesome.

[Flickerdart]

Divine Crusader is 3/4 BAB
So it is. How odd.