My second dive into building a world!

[Zap Dynamic]

This here's going to be a place where I throw out ideas and grovel for more. Be forewarned!

Here's what I've got (more details to follow in the second post):
Fairy Tales: I want a world that is inspired by the stories collected by the Brothers Grimm. It will have a very mythical feel to with woods that can turn you into a goblin and mountains whose peaks lie beyond the realm of the living, though it will probably have a very strictly-controlled flow of magic/magical items. This style of fantasy is something that I think is missing from the table, and I'd like to explore it in depth.
Wuxia: To provide some contrast and keep it from becoming one-dimensional, I'd like to throw in a lot of the themes and flavor of wuxia stories, especially the relationship between the Jianghu and an encroaching, usually-corrupt government. My only experience in this realm is film, but I've seen a fair few of the good ones.
Medieval: I want a world that--visually, anyway--draws heavily from the High Middle Ages. It's very possible that I'll build a system of politics and religion based on the history of Europe and neighboring areas circa 1100-1300 CE. The Witcher video games and A Song of Ice and Fire are pretty big influences here.
Focused Races: I want some fantasy races, but I don't like the tabletop stereotypes that have developed around the classic races, and some of the races (dwarves, halflings...) I don't want at all.
Wondrous/Mythical: Back to the mythical element in the setting: fairy tales are laden with a sense of mystery and/or wonder, and I want to capture that. There will probably be a high degree of discovery and intrigue in this setting as a result. There will be combat too, but I'm thinking it should be saved for climactic moments, and might end up being only one of several options.
Open: I'm not designing this for a particular system. I can see elements in a lot of systems that would fit well with what I'm trying to create, but I'd like it be be system-free for now.


Let the groveling commence! I'll be throwing up what I've already got, but at every step of the way I'd LOVE to get feedback, criticism, and ideas from anyone who's interested.

[Zap Dynamic]

In the Land of Lakes and Rivers
I haven't come up with a name for the world yet, and I don't know that I'm going to. I'm definitely interested in getting some opinions on this.

History and Style of the Project:
Originally, I had intended to make my own RPG system, and this was going to be the world created for it. My original idea for the system was to create a tabletop RPG that utilized the skill trees seen in MMOs to provide a balanced (aka "As tier-less as I could make it") system. After doing a LOT of blog reading and sketching, I realized that I didn't need to add one more[/r] system to the mix, but that's neither here nor there. :P

The system was going to be centered around three "powers": Mind, Body, and Spirit, and since I like the number 9, each of those powers was going to be represented by three races: two good, and one evil. That's the only element from my original plans that I'm currently sticking with, and who knows? Maybe I'll move away from that.

Now, I want to create a world that's equal parts wuxia and western folklore. That's my official starting point. I've been having a lot of ideas for "Van Helsing" esque religious demon hunters lately, so I may include that as well.

Inspiration (aka "Stuff I've been reading, watching, and playing"):
Here's what I've been exposing myself to for the past few months:

Grimm's Fairy Tales
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and its friends
Game of Thrones
The Witcher (video game...anyone recommend the books?)
Lots more!


The World:
Here's the first flavorful bit that I wrote for the setting:
The setting is a forest at the crossroads of monsters and peace, of magic and civilization. A valuable trade route passes through the wood, between a vast empire to the east and exotic seafarers to the west. The Empire has established a few fort cities along the route to protect caravans. Bandits--who have always raided local villages in lieu of honest lives and hard work--now raid the caravans for riches. Monsters also make their way into the wood from north and south, where old magic still has the power to reshape mortals. They prey on bandits, villagers, and caravans alike. Groups of fantastic, wandering heroes--who have always protected innocent folk from bandits and monsters--have been counted as scum equal to the bandits because they refuse to submit to imperial authority. A way of life is being paved over by streets of gold. Tensions are high.
Geography: I'd like to note that I'm not sold on any of these names except Arka, Kossian, and Ramparts.
At first, I wanted this setting to be a small piece of a much larger world. Global exploration hasn't happened yet, so the people of the setting have no knowledge of what lies beyond the horizon. The sea traders are the only ones who are far-traveled, and they are considered extremely weird by the mainland folk. Now, I'd like to emphasize the mythical elements of the story more, so I'm thinking that the world is a flat disc that extends no more than 2000 miles from the center of the world. The explorers who have returned from journeys to the edges of the world can be counted on one hand, if that.

I've made maps--and I'll probably upload them when I get them onto my computer--but I don't think they're necessary to the setting at this point. Here are some brief descriptions of locations:
Karay Forest: A dense forest that stretches endlessly off into the north and south, between the ocean to the west and the mountains to the east. Giant animals and feral trolls live under its boughs, and mortals that travel there risk being twisted into a monster themselves. Not sold on this name.
Arka: A large wood in the central part of Karay, and home to Arkians, one of the human races. It takes almost a week to travel from the coast to the mountains, and the Arkians that live here do so in isolated communities, separated by dangerous woodland and roving bandits.
The Ramparts: A huge, impassable range of mountains to the west of Karay, that stretches endlessly from North to South. The Kossians--another human race--live in the western hills of the Ramparts, and have limited contact with the Arkians through a small valley--the only known gap through the mountains.
Sunset Ocean: The stretch of water that makes up the western half of the world. An archipelago of thousands of islands stretches across its surface, and is home to the Kareid Fey, exotic seafarers who trade gold (no one else produces gold but the Kareid).
Urian Plain: A plain that stretches endlessly into the east, and is home to the Empire of Cerai. The land becomes more barren the further east one travels; at the Empire's eastern border, the land is completely barren.

Cosmology:
Right now, there is only the Material Plane, which is called "The World." There might be a Spirit Plane, or there might be heaven and hell planes, but either way they will overlap the Material Plane. I like the idea of ghosts in this setting (and it fits with both Chinese and European folklore!), and the whole "overlapping" thing could justify that.

Since the world is flat, the sun and moon light the underside as well. There will be an underdark-type place, and large crystal formations will be on its floor. When it's night time on the surface (i.e. when the sun is beneath the earth), the sun will shine through the crystals, providing illumination for the underworld.

Gameplay Stuff
This will shy away from mechanics right now, because (as I mentioned) I don't want to marry myself to a particular system just yet. Here are some things I've been thinking about, though:

I like the reputation and wealth systems found in the Game of Thrones RPG.
I think there's a lot of potential for ToB in this setting.
I want to expand the influence of domains to all kinds of organizations, not just religions. The fluff for 3.x Clerics (not sure about 4e) says that they don't necessarily have to follow a deity, but there's no real system in place for that kind of play.


Races
Humans: Right now, Hungarian is their model language.
[i]Arkians

Sacred Material: Jade
Shorter (5-6 ft.), wiry humans from the woods of Arka.

Kossians

Sacred Material: Stone
Taller (5.5-6.5 ft.), bulkier humans from the kingdoms of Koss in the hills of the Ramparts.

Gnomes Right now, Romanian is their model language.
(NOT sold on this designation, or the subrace names)
Laurin

Sacred Material: Crystal
Short (3-4 ft.), stocky gnomes that live underground. Primarily scholars and craftsmen.

Calarin

Sacred Material: Glass
Shorter (4.5-5.5 ft.), "stretched" looking gnomes that live above their Laurin cousins. They revere horses, and are very charismatic. The two races make up the Cerai Empire.

Fey Right now, Turkish is their model language.
Aykeid

Sacred Material: Silver (they are how silver is made)
Shorter (4.5-5.5 ft.), wispy creatures that are innately magical and dwell far to the north. These may not end up being a playable race.

Kareid

Sacred Material: Gold (they are how gold is made)
Shorter (5-6 ft.), sinewy creatures that lives on the seas of the west.


States and Factions
The Empire of Cerai - Calarin, Laurin, and Kossians
The Free Cities of the Kareid - Kareid
The Two Kingdoms of Koss - Kossians
The Freelands of Arka - Arkians
- Heroes - Organized into fortresses and schools.
- Bandits - Organized into hideouts and raiding parties.
- Freefolk - Organized into villages.

Monsters
Trolls - Humans corrupted by the magic of the forest. Common. Powerful.

Imps - Gnomes corrupted by the forest or the underworld. Common. Powerful when in groups.

Hunger Demons - Fey who succumb to moments of extreme sorrow. Exceedingly rare, and exceedingly dangerous. Basically vampires.

Zombies - Humans slain by Hunger Demons. Rare. Powerful in Groups.

Dire Animals - larger-than-normal, aggressive forest animals. Common. Dangerous.

Witches - Mortals who combine the materials of the forest with profane knowledge to create magic. Common. Dangerous.

Ghosts - Created from dead mortals. Origins unknown. Rare. Often Dangerous.

Demons - Capable of reaching across the veil between worlds to corrupt mortals, but only under certain circumstances. Rare. Extremely dangerous.

Religion: Considering that all of Middle Age philosophy is about religion, I think religion will play a big part in this setting.
The Church of Unity - State religion of the Empire. Worships a deified cultural hero. Makes the gods of other pantheons into saints in an attempt to proselytize.
The Humble Seekers of the Divine Secret - Religion/Society of the Laurin Gnomes. Inspired by conspiracy theories about freemasonry and the like.
The Two Kings - Cultural religion of Kossians. Worship is focused on two pantheons (based on principles of aggression and conservation, respectively). Determining which pantheon reigns is determined by casting runic stones.
The Three Forms - Cultural religion of the Kareid. Two gods--sea and sky--are constantly at war, and so are their followers. A third god--earth--gives solace to mortals, but is powerless in the divine struggle. Earth god's followers take no part in the war between Sea and Sky.
Arkian Hero Worship - Arkians have no deities, but have huge respect for their living heroes and dead ancestors.

[Wyntonian]

My first advice? Get a team. I don't mean anything official, just find some people who're willing to be the wall you bounce ideas off of. In the project found in my sig, I've have a bunch of good luck with that. SamBurke, Arathnos, Eldest, Byzantine.... They've helped me more than I can imagine. I'd be happy to help you out with this world, it seems like just my type of thing.

As for your world itself, well, I'd recommend leaving the door open for various playstyles. It would appear that you want to run predominantly Narrativist, story-based games of exploration, discovery and wonder. Those are also some of my favorites. However... Be aware that someone could see that world and grab their dice, because bitches gonna get cut, amirite broski ? *fistbump* Now, if you do a good job, you can make it so that even this hack-and-slash adrenaline junkie type of game has the same sense of wonder, mystery and excitement as the rest of the world. Not telling you to throw arbitrary meaningless dungeons all over the place, but maybe allow for some things that just need to be killed.

That being said I'd be happy to help in any way I can.

[Zap Dynamic]

My first advice? Get a team. ... I'd be happy to help you out with this world, it seems like just my type of thing.

That would be great, thanks! Your thread (er... the first page, anyway) is what inspired me to start this one!


As for your world itself, well, I'd recommend leaving the door open for various playstyles.

That's definitely part of my intention. I think about wuxia stories, which are never short on action, and I think there's a lot of potential there. When I think about fairy tales, and even the ones that don't involve princes slaying dragons usually have a fight of some kind going on.

As far as my style is concerned, I'm a big advocate of what I'd call "Sandbox Worldbuilding." I have an idea of what I want the world to look like--and there's a finite number of stories that could be told in it, given the world's theme--but I also want to be accommodating for a variety of playstyles.

[Zap Dynamic]

I'm a big fan of this chart (http://www.autarch.co/2011/07/the-demographics-of-heroism/) to describe the distribution of power in the world. It would be nice if it would go all the way to 20th level, but if this setting is run in a d20 system, the chart could always be edited.

On second thought, there's always a planar adventure for characters beyond level 14. I don't think I like the idea of characters in this setting battling toe-to-toe with demons etc. (which tells me something about my vision), but it's a possibility.

[Zap Dynamic]

I would enjoy any help you can offer! What are your thoughts so far?

[Zap Dynamic]

If you're going for a middle ages or a Brother's Grimm sort of feel, you're going to want a very politically fractured sort of world, filled with peasants who've never left their home village.

I agree. I've been thinking about ways to add befuddlement and conflict into the setting. Here's what I've been thinking:

First off, the forest itself acts as a barrier between the various villages and fortresses. Only trained warriors and well-guarded groups can travel the forest--and even then it's dangerous--so most villagers do in fact live and die in their village. Generally speaking, each forest village is autonomous, though some may have connections to a hero's fortress or another nearby village.
Despite the isolation, there are individuals who travel the realm (usually heroes and bandits) and they spread news as they go. Word travels quickly in Arka, but it's the telephone game at its finest, hence your idea about misinformed peasantry. News would travel to noteworthies first, so they would have a more accurate picture.
These groups create three players throughout the history of Arka: the heroes, who guard the villages in exchange for food and recruits, the bandits, who raid the villages and hold blood debts against the heroes, and the villagers, who hunt, fish, and farm, and try to ally with hero groups. Each of these categories are filled with autonomous organizations: two groups of heroes might be allies, or they might be bitter enemies. The same goes for bandits and for villages.
I like the idea of a war, but I had planned to make that an event for campaign play. My idea is complex, and deserves more than a bullet point, so I'll detail it below.


War Ideas
Here's what I'm thinking in terms of the recent history of the area. To outsiders, Arka has always been seen as a backwater place full of nothing but stubborn farmers and dangerous beasts. The woods are plainly magical (which we can tease out later), and don't provide resources worth exploiting, so the Two Kingdoms and the Empire have left it alone.

However, maybe 60 years ago, the Kareid landed on the shores of Arka. Arkians wear primarily silk (they have no sheep for cotton, but the forest has plenty of silk worms), and the Kareid are as fascinated by the fabric as Arkians are of gold (which has never before been seen by the mainlanders). They start trading, and the Arkians begin to prosper. In a few decades (word from worthless lands travels slowly), the states to the east of the mountains learn of this new metal, and quickly send out scouts.

Inside another handful of years, they've established a (heavily-patrolled) trade route through the forest, and have begun the familiar process of integrating the Arkians into the Empire. The catch is that the Arkians are just fine with being independent, and are actually pretty upset that Cerai has shouldered their way into the forest. Add to that the Two Kingdoms and their near-constantly warlike culture, and you've got three different players on a pretty grand military scale.

A war between Cerai and the Two Kingdoms would mean organized troops clashing head-to-head. A war between Cerai and Arka would mean occupying forces fighting against heavily-entrenched (and highly patriotic) guerrilla fighters.


Is the Empire of Cerai an empire in the sense of the Romans or in the sense of the Holy Roman Empire? One of these was a giant empire ran by insane Emperors, while the other was a collection of cities ran by nobles who hated each other.

They way I see it, Cerai was founded when the two Gnomish races first separated into subraces. They loved fellowship with each other despite become different peoples, and decided to stick together: the Laurin (the older race) staying underground, and travelling with the Calarin, who preferred to walk the surface, feel the light of the sun, and domesticate horses.

This love of unity has been the single greatest factor in the formation of the Empire. For maybe a thousand years, Cerai has integrated every tribe and village it has encountered...at any cost. Many of these assimilations were peaceful, but the Cerian Military is no trifling matter.

The Emperor can claim direct descent from their god, who was once a mortal. He commands a unified territory made up of many different ethnic groups that have all helped to shape Cerai's culture. Most recently (maybe 100 years ago?), Cerai clashed with the Two Kingdoms of Koss, warring for a decade or two before a truce and alliance was brokered. Many Kossians chose to join the Empire, and the Two Kingdoms gave Cerai a lot of land, but maintained their independence as vassal states. The Two Kingdoms may hold a grudge about this truce, especially now that they're getting the short end of the stick with these gold trades.

Summary

The heroes, bandits, and villages of Arka don't get along, but they all agree that Arka is theirs and no one elses.
Arkians have enjoyed a very lucrative trade with the Kareid for decades, trading silk for gold.
The Empire of Cerai wants this gold, and has extended an arm through the wood to access the sea.
Cerai's nature is to spread its borders and its culture--and has done so in Arka--much to the chagrin of the natives.
Koss might still be licking its wounds from their war with Cerai, and might be eager to break ties and start getting greater profits from the gold trade.


Thoughts? I think I covered everything you mentioned... In general, I think this is great work for the "corrupt government vs. honorable warrior anarchy world" present in wuxia stories, but I'm still trying to figure out how best to integrate elements of fairy tales into it without disneyfying things.

Also: it ought to be pretty obvious by now, but while the world of the setting is pretty large, the bulk of the stories I've imagined will take place in Arka, a harsh woodland roughly 70x70 miles. Everything I've done so far has been in a result of that goal, but I'm totally willing to branch out now that I've got helpers. :)

[Zap Dynamic]

Folklore and Fairy Tale Ideas

I'm going to make a list of fairy tale elements off of the top of my head.

Vampires - Definitely western European, which is good, because Grimm is from the same general region. There are Chinese vampires (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiang_Shi), too, but I think they're a little bit silly.
Wicked Witches with their cauldrons - I figure (to help tie the wuxia element in even more) the Arkians have a well-developed culture of brewing tea. That's just one step away from brewing potions. Win.
The Big Bad Wolf - Not sure that I want Werecreatures in the setting, but dire animals might fit the bill.
Bridge-Guarding Trolls - Guarding bridges seems like it's a trope that borders on nursery rhymes, but I like the troll thing. I don't want them to be the catch-all bad guys, though, because I really hate the "bad guys=ugly race" trope present in a lot of tabletop gaming.
Fairy Godmothers - At first I'm hesitant because it seems like a nursery rhyme thing again, but I think there might be a cool way to tie this in with chinese ancestral veneration. Maybe something like an Eternal Blade's blade guardian would fit into this category.
Changelings, Goblins, etc. - Any little, malevolent thing that steals stuff, whether it be clothing or children. Definitely room for this somewhere, and that somewhere it might be the underworld.
The Fair Folk - Maybe too similar to the above bullet point, and definitely too close to British folklore for my tastes, but I like the idea of the magical wildland folk who can grant boons for double-edged deals.
Transformations - Being turned into a frog, a tree, etc., and being cursed to stay that way until certain conditions are met, i.e. being kissed by a princess. In some stories, character keep their magical powers.
Rules - Some set of odd, apparently arbitrary rules that the hero will be given at some point. If the hero follows the rules, he'll enjoy success, if he deviates from them, he'll die. (Or, in the more forgiving cases, be Transformed until the proper hero comes along and breaks the curse).

I'm sure there are more, but I am le tired. As much as possible, it'd be nice to find elements that are present in both western and Asian folklore.

[Lord Tyger]

As far as getting the feel of Grimm's fairy tales, there are a couple things besides just creatures you might want to consider.

The Transformation- someone is transformed into someone or something else, generally against their will. This is your Frog-Prince, your Seven Brothers turned to Swans, your Bear-King. Generally there's some specific set of things that need to be done to break the curse- most classically a kiss, but really anything from "Let me sleep in your bed for a night," to "Don't say a word for the next seven years while you weave us each a coat out of nettles,".

The Rules- Somewhat related to the above. Some set of odd, apparently arbitrary rules that the hero will be given at some point. If the hero follows the rules, he'll enjoy success, if he deviates from them, he'll die. (Or, in the more forgiving cases, be Transformed until the proper hero comes along and breaks the curse).

[Zap Dynamic]

Thanks! Consider them added to the list.

From a DM perspective, I think random transformations and arbitrary rules are really interesting things to add to a setting. The arbitrary rules thing in particular reminds me of a post I read over at KORPG (http://www.korpg.com/blog/when-destiny-yields-plot-immunity-only-on-the-path-to-the-goal/) a few weeks ago.

[Mulletmanalive]

If you intimate that forests are automatically dangerous, you kill any possibility of versimilitude. It takes about 50-60 acres of arrible land to even reach subsistence misery level for a village of 200 people, preferably with some hunting and birding possible on top of that.

Villages aren't going to look like the ones in Fable; they may have pallisades for living inside but they're going to have pretty big swathes of cleared farmland around them. People aren't going to leave because if they aren't there, they can't guaruntee to inherit the land of their father, so they don't want to risk it. Not that there's exactly much of a potential for riches or even finding other work if they left.

There's where your adventurers come in, roving from village to village like unofficial patrols [like the Faeud [however you spell that] the Saxon militia] and hunting down anything particularly dangerous that places a village or the roads within their territories.

I'm not sure how you're going to go about incorporating wushu stuff into this while trying to maintain the actual flavour of fairy stories. Fairy stories, with the exception of tales of Jack, tend to have basically powerless protagonists who win by finding the single fatal weakness of the antagonist. Even when blades are drawn, the fights are usually one-sided. Grimm are a little better for this than Lang's versions, but that's mostly so they can keep the gore.

When you come up with a solution to that, let me know.

[If you need to know about tales of Jack as a sub-category, let me know btw]

[Zap Dynamic]

If you intimate that forests are automatically dangerous, you kill any possibility of versimilitude. Show me the fairy tale that strives for verisimilitude, and I'll start adding it into the setting. :P

To a certain extent, I want to preserve what I see as a "misty" quality present in a lot of fairy tales. Rather than "We can't find food because there isn't enough clear land for us to find crops, because subsistence is a bitch," I think the more appropriate storytelling hook would be something like "We're poor. Time to sell the cow for some magic beans." True-to-life, meticulously constructed settings have their place, but I don't think they belong under the genre of "fairy tales." :)


There's where your adventurers come in, roving from village to village like unofficial patrols [like the Faeud [however you spell that] the Saxon militia] and hunting down anything particularly dangerous that places a village or the roads within their territories.
I agree completely. To use a campaign as an example, I imagine a world where the heroes start as villagers at level 1, leave the village to join a heroic order (coming up with a name for these guys would be helpful... basically a western-flavor dojo... maybe something about knights?), train under these heroes, and then break out to wander the wood and protect (or exploit, as the campaign may be...) the peaceful village folk.


I'm not sure how you're going to go about incorporating wushu stuff into this while trying to maintain the actual flavour of fairy stories. Fairy stories, with the exception of tales of Jack, tend to have basically powerless protagonists who win by finding the single fatal weakness of the antagonist. Even when blades are drawn, the fights are usually one-sided. Grimm are a little better for this than Lang's versions, but that's mostly so they can keep the gore.
This is another roadblock I've been trying to deal with. The latest solution I've been entertaining goes back to the sandbox mentality. Ideally, it would be nice if there were areas/events that allow for more combat-heavy playstyles, and other occasions where a different, more fairy tale-esque approach is needed. For instance, one table might run an adventure where you strike out as heroes and go root out an organization of foul bandits, flying through the trees and catching arrows with abandon. Instead, another table might choose to go out into The Woods to visit The Witch to buy the Magic Phlebotinum to earn the Happily Ever After.

The biggest problem with this approach is that it's not really doing much to combine fairy tales and wuxia, so much as it's putting both of them--separately--in the same world. It may be that the two of them can't be combined, in which I'm sure something can be figured out. However, wuxia is essentially eastern tales of knights and dragons (or knights and other knights, as the case may be), so I feel like there's hope.

One final thing that I think I should mention as soon as possible: I want to create a world to play in, and provide an array of options for those who choose to play in it. What I don't want to do is dictate every method of play that's available. Essentially: rampant potential (within the parameters of a clear vision) is better than trying to account for every detail IMHO.


[If you need to know about tales of Jack as a sub-category, let me know btw]
Do you mean these (http://www2.ferrum.edu/applit/bibs/tales/index.htm#Jack)? And thanks for the input, btw! I love the sound of turning gears!

P.S. - I've updated the first post to provide "Titles" for each of my bullet points. I guess you could consider those the necessary conditions of the world.

[Zap Dynamic]

I was just thinking about fantasy races, particularly which should be included.

Here are the races I've already got:
Humans: Regular, boring old humans. Maybe they're immune to magic! Not alone, but when hundreds gather together, they can push back magical energy, which would explain why individuals get twisted by the forest, but communities don't.
Fay: Fairies etc. Right now there are two races, one that's lost it's magical heritage and plies its trade upon the sea, and another that's stuck to its genealogical guns, and currently lives far to the north, beyond the reach of humanity. Not sold on that idea.
Gnomes: Inspired by the "house elves" seen in many fairy stories. Fixin' your shoes, amiright? Again, these have split into two races, one that lives below ground (and is truer to the spirit of "house elves"), and another that's left home, lost its mystical powers, and become savvy politicians.

A little rationale behind gaining and losing their magic abilities. This is all probably meta-info... nothing the people of the world would know
Mind, Body, and Spirit: The three forces that created all things. Mind and Spirit coalesced to create magic, and Body did...something.
Forest and Underground: These places are inherently magical, possibly because of the sun and moon. On the surface, trees drink the light of both, and emit it as magic? Underground, crystals do the same?
Humans: Creatures of Body. Inherently anti-magic. Born in the hills. Arkians left the hills to go to the magical forest, and may be able to work magic in some ways... not sure.
Fay: Creatures of Spirit. Strongly Magic. Born in the forest. Kareid left the forest, and magic has weakened amongst them. Maybe they can still call on the gods or something.
Gnomes: Creatures of Mind. Weakly Magic. Born underground. Laurin still live underground, but have to study magic to be able to access it. Calarin went to the surface, so they're magic waned. Maybe they can still call on the gods?

Now, I like those three choices, but I don't like calling the third "gnomes." It would be fine to call the undergrounders "gnomes," but not the taller, less-magical surface dwellers. Thoughts? I don't know about calling them "elves," either, because that's pretty much the Fay. Maybe "True Gnomes" and "Tall Gnomes" or something? Sounds weak to my ears.

On the subject of the Fay, I'd like a way to bring them closer to the realm of humans, while still keeping them distant. Partly because I have this vision that both of the Fay races feed on a drink made from spring water and the light of the sun or moon (depending on the race), and this ritual also creates gold and silver (respectively) as a by-product. Thoughts?

Maybe--as creatures of the forest--they have the ability to treewalk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/tree-stride) with certain trees. Maybe these special trees form the heart of groves that are the source of magical energies? They lay an enchantment over the surrounding wood, twisting mortals and causing animals to grow much larger. They're fiercely protected, so (from my perspective) the people of the world can't just saunter in, cut the trees down, and suddenly be safe. Maybe there's even a precedent of terrible fates befalling those few brave folks who have cut down one of the trees. Thoughts?

[Lord Tyger]

You could always pick one of the various names for household spirits. Kobolds (okay, kind of taken) Hobbs, Brownies...

[Zap Dynamic]

You could always pick one of the various names for household spirits. Kobolds (okay, kind of taken) Hobbs, Brownies...

Hobbs could work. I've been shying away from British/Celtic culture (in favor of Germanic stuff), but I think I'm being too picky.

Here's what I'm looking for. An earth-based creature that has a variety of descriptions. For instance, when a player hears "elf," or "dwarf," I'm willing to say that there is an overwhelming majority of people with the same idea about what those are. Gnomes seem different, but it's still not broad enough. I don't want to call them "Terrans," and "Cthoni" makes me think of little fish people with tentacle mouths. Any ideas? A hour-long wikipedia search for household spirits didn't yield much promise.

[Wyntonian]

There's a homebrewed PrC that uses lil spirity things, hold on...

It's the Goodwife (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10002550&postcount=16). What you'll want is the spirits it uses (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10002559&postcount=17). Take a peek at the names, they seem kinda like what you're looking for.

[Zap Dynamic]

There's a homebrewed PrC that uses lil spirity things, hold on...

It's the Goodwife (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10002550&postcount=16). What you'll want is the spirits it uses (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10002559&postcount=17). Take a peek at the names, they seem kinda like what you're looking for.

First thing's first: That's an awesome class, and has a lot of potential for this setting.

Second thing's second, I just read the book for Legend (http://www.ruleofcool.com/), and holy WOW! In the OP I mentioned that I started this project for use in a system I was going to create myself. Legend is almost exactly what I was trying to create. Too cool.

Third, here's a list of various earth-based creature names from Wikipedia:

Gnomes (Latin)
Hobbs (British)
Tomte (Scandinavian)
Chthoni (Greek)
Terrans (It's a D&D language :P)


It might serve to take one of these and twist it a little. Tolkien did it to create the Hobbits, after all.

What's everyone's opinion on these? Particularly, Chthoni and Terrans are looking interesting to me. Thoughts?

[Zap Dynamic]

(Is it still bad form to double post in your own thread? It's been a while since I've been a forum member...)

Stop the Presses.

I've been letting things percolate for a few hours, and I think I've come to an important conclusion:

I've been wanting to make a simple world inspired by fairy tales, and a complex one inspired by wuxia. Call me Billy Mays, but I think there's some oxy in my moron.

Let's put all the work thus far up on a shelf. Here's the new project:

Fairy Tale World:

The world is bedtime story, 5-year-old-imagination simple. Nothing complex, just the root of storytelling.
I have this feeling for an Alpine world. An isolated, idyllic kingdom in a secluded valley deep in the mountains. No distractions.
There's a castle in the valley, and the castle has a few villages.
The Wood Village is where the hunters, woodsmen, and their families rough it.
The Grass Village is where the farmers and shepherds live.
Deep in the forest, things get mythical. There's maybe a witch, there are definitely mysterious creatures.
There's a high mountain somewhere. Maybe something's going on there.
There's probably an abandoned tower... maybe in a higher part of the valley.


My hope is that--by pursuing the essence of this thing, we can come up with something fun, and eventually get a better idea of the larger project. Maybe just post a few sentences, each one an idea that teases out one of the above elements?

I'll start: There are little fellas that live in the forest. They're rumored to steal things like children.

[Wyntonian]

First off, I just did my third or fourth triple-post in my own thread, so don't worry about it. Especially here, it's your work, you don't need to wait for someone else to comment before adding more.

Also... Good choice. That art of microsettings is a valid one, and one that I'd like to see a little more of. That is, settings small enough to fit in a single valley or so. On to the individual ideas....

Wood Village - I could see some awesomeness here with a bunch of treehouses and such. Flets, if you will. If there's bears and goblins and all manner of little buggers on the ground, it seems a natural choice.

[Zap Dynamic]

Wood Village - I could see some awesomeness here with a bunch of treehouses and such. Flets, if you will. If there's bears and goblins and all manner of little buggers on the ground, it seems a natural choice.

I like it! To follow up on that: There are little humanoids that come out of the forest at night to steal babies from their cribs, but they can't climb trees.