Metamagic metamagic feats on wands?

[imneuromancer]

Can you use feats such as arcane thesis and (PHBII p. 74) or Metamagic School Focus (Complete Mage p. 45) to put metamagic feats on wands without adding to the cost?

For example, normally a silent spell on a grease would cost (750 x spell level x caster level) or 750 x 2 x 3 = 4500 because the spell level would effectively be 2.

But if one put silent spell on a CL 1 grease spell by using metamagic school focus (conjuration) to reduce the normal +1 spell slot by 1 back to spell level 1, would the cost instead be 750 x 1 x 1 = 750?

Supporting passages:
"using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal. For example, a caster could heighten a spell level to increase its effectiveness or quicken a spell to allow it to be used as a free action..." DMG p. 283

"Craft Wand: You can create a wand of any 4th-level or lower spell that you know..." PHB p. 92

"Metamagic School Focus: three times per day, you can reduce by one level the cost of a metamagic feat applied to a spell of the chosen school" Complete Mage p. 45

"Arcane Thesis: When you apply a metamagic feat other than heighten spell to [the chosen] spell, the enhanced spell uses up a slot one level lower than normal...." PHB II, p. 74

"The caster level must be high enough that the spellcaster creating the item can cast the spell" PHB p. 88 under Item Creation Feats.

[Pigkappa]

Balance-wise: certainly not. Don't do this in your campaign.

RAW: I think not since I asked this very question some weeks ago in the RAW thread. Curmudgeon's answer is possibly questionable, anyway, and RAW isn't really clear too: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12203816&postcount=373 .

[Shadowleaf]

Isn't it one of the Artificers abilities to be able to do just that?

Not really arguing RAW, but I think RAI they were meant to be the only ones able to do that.

[The Underlord]

Technicaly, by RAW, spells only take igher slots, but, unless highetended, the spell level would remain the same. So a twin repeating maximized empowered energy admixtured lesser orb of acid would still technicaly still be a 1st level spell .*

I would rule that arcane thesis would work for the particular spell, as would easy metamagic, but not metamagic shchool focus, because it is a limited number of times per day. Incantrix does not count because incantrix does not needd a boost.


*The Underlod is not responsible for any injuries, madness, or otherwise bodily or metal harm that may come from using this. Alert a doctor if any of the following happen, as they may be not-so-rare and seroius side effects: Flying books aimed at the user's head, steam from dm's head, or consipation. Stop using this method if you experience loss of hearing, consciousness, and/or sanity.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Similarly, there are feats from Eberron and I want to say Complete Arcane that allow modifications to wands, assuming you know the metamagic feat in question.

Thus, an Artificer X (They eventually get a class feature to this effect) could use said class feature to slap a metamagic feat he knows onto a wand or other charged item (or staff et al).

[imneuromancer]

Based on the DMG entry, it sounds like adding metamagic to a wand is allowed. I think that is pretty clear.

The artificer abilities (Eberron p. 32) of Metamagic Spell Trigger and Metamagic Spell Completion are about the artificer using metamagic feats they know on "normal" items that don't already have it applied. So, for example, if they knew "silent spell" they could make a normal 1st-level grease wand silent if they expend 2 charges instead of 1, or if they make a UMD check (respectively).

The problem I see is if Arcane Thesis or Metamagic School Focus reduces the cost of wands because the spell that is cast into it is lowered.