[3.P] Any Way to Get Multiple Minds?

[Curious]

So I'm currently constructing an Alchemist character (he's got abilities picked from the Beastmorph, Chirurgeon, Clone Master, Internal Alchemist, and Vivisectionist) who is focused on 'improving' his body and is a consummate schemer and planner. I'm planning on using his clone ability to eventually create dozens or even hundreds of clone bodies, preserved in vats by Living Gentle Repose spells as a backup plan.

Now, since I plan on using him as a cunning mastermind character, having extra bodies running around would be just the thing to confuse his enemies. So I wonder if there is any way to implant subservient minds into the bodies of his numerous clones. I was thinking about getting a Simulacrum Mind Jar'd into one of the clone's bodies, but I don't think that would provide full spellcasting abilities and would be hideously expensive to boot.

Anybody have any ideas?

[Hirax]

Use mother cyst to put necrotic cysts in anyone you want under your thumb.

[Curious]

Use mother cyst to put necrotic cysts in anyone you want under your thumb.

Source? I think I've heard cysts referred to before, but I don't know what they do or where they're from.

[Hirax]

Libra Mortis. Mother cyst is a feat that gives you the ability to cast a line of spells. One of the spells puts a necrotic cyst into another creature's body, and the some of other spells allow you to dominate, kill, or harm anyone with a necrotic cyst. It also gives you the necrotic empowerment spell, which is a great buff.

[Curious]

Libra Mortis. Mother cyst is a feat that gives you the ability to cast a line of spells. One of the spells puts a necrotic cyst into another creature's body, and the some of other spells allow you to dominate, kill, or harm anyone with a necrotic cyst. It also gives you the necrotic empowerment spell, which is a great buff.

But can you dominate or control a literally mindless, soulless creature? I would prefer if my slaves were capable of independent thought and planning.

[Rubik]

Use Psionic Device on a power stone of this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSeed.htm).

[Hirax]

They're clones right? I'm very hazy on athfinder. I was thinking they get the mother cyst feat too. There's no rule stopping you from put necrotic cysts into them to control them, even if it's a little weird because they also have mother cysts. Then you can have them running around putting necrotic cysts in other people, and controlling them. However, note that necrotic cysts don't respond differently to anyone in particular, once you've given someone a necrotic cyst, anyone with the mother cyst feat can control them. This may be a good or bad thing for you. Necrotic dominate doesn't have the mind affecting descriptor, so theoretically it works on anything that's a valid target to have a mother cyst. The only things that can't have a mother cyst are things that have the line where they're immune to anything that requires a fort save, unless it also works on objects.

[Curious]

They're clones right? I'm very hazy on athfinder. I was thinking they get the mother cyst feat too. There's no rule stopping you from put necrotic cysts into them to control them, even if it's a little weird because they also have mother cysts. Then you can have them running around putting necrotic cysts in other people, and controlling them. However, note that necrotic cysts don't respond differently to anyone in particular, once you've given someone a necrotic cyst, anyone with the mother cyst feat can control them. This may be a good or bad thing for you. Necrotic dominate doesn't have the mind affecting descriptor, so theoretically it works on anything that's a valid target to have a mother cyst. The only things that can't have a mother cyst are things that have the line where they're immune to anything that requires a fort save, unless it also works on objects.

Yeah, they're clones. If it works as you describe, this might just be perfect, assuming I can qualify for them. I'll check it out.

EDIT: Unfortunately, Mother Cyst requires a caster level, which Alchemist does not provide.

[Psyren]

Use Psionic Device on a power stone of this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSeed.htm).

If OP is using the Pathfinder skills, note that UPD/Psicraft no longer exist and UMD/Spellcraft cover psionic items by default now.

[Curious]

If OP is using the Pathfinder skills, note that UPD/Psicraft no longer exist and UMD/Spellcraft cover psionic items by default now.

I'm using PF skills, but it's not gestalt or anything, so I can't make use of psionics anyways. Would be a good suggestion otherwise though.

[Psyren]

I'm using PF skills, but it's not gestalt or anything, so I can't make use of psionics anyways. Would be a good suggestion otherwise though.

I think you're confused - gestalt isn't needed at all. He was talking about manifesting Mind Seed (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/m/mind-seed) from an item, such as a power stone, on each of your clones - this would have the desired effect of having several "yous" running around to confuse your enemies (provided you could briefly animate the lifeless clones first.)

Alchemists get UMD, which they could then use to fake manifesting ability and operate the power stone.

But how are you picking abilities from all those archetypes? In Pathfinder, once you pick an archetype you have to choose all the modified abilities it contains - it's not like Substitution Levels in 3.5, where you can pick the ones you like and skip the ones you don't. Furthermore, if any archetype's features replaces the same feature as a different archetype, you can't choose both archetypes in the same build at all. For example, Beastmorph and Internal Alchemist are incompatible because both replace the base Alchemist's Swift Alchemy ability.

[Curious]

I think you're confused - gestalt isn't needed at all. He was talking about manifesting Mind Seed (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/m/mind-seed) from an item, such as a power stone, on each of your clones - this would have the desired effect of having several "yous" running around to confuse your enemies (provided you could briefly animate the lifeless clones first.)

Alchemists get UMD, which they could then use to fake manifesting ability and operate the power stone.

But how are you picking abilities from all those archetypes? In Pathfinder, once you pick an archetype you have to choose all the modified abilities it contains - it's not like Substitution Levels in 3.5, where you can pick the ones you like and skip the ones you don't. Furthermore, if any archetype's features replaces the same feature as a different archetype, you can't choose both archetypes in the same build at all. For example, Beastmorph and Internal Alchemist are incompatible because both replace the base Alchemist's Swift Alchemy ability.

Oh. Oooooooh. That makes sense. Thanks, this is perfect. I just need to get a simulacrum to mind jar into their bodies first, then mind seed them and wait for it to work itself out.

DM fiat.

[Helldog]

DM fiat.
You must mean houserule, surely.

[Curious]

You must mean houserule, surely.

Yeah, I just wanted to spit it out quicker.

[Rubik]

Note that whomever wrote that version (as well as whomever wrote the original) was rather dumb, since there are uses for Mind Seed (beyond curing Mind Seed) that aren't Evil, such as what you want it for. Your clones don't have minds, so overwriting Nothing with You is Evil how?

Really, it depends totally on why you're doing it and the circumstances you're in as to whether this is Evil or not.

No psionic power should have the [Evil] descriptor, I think, except maybe the horribad ones in CPsi that turn you into half-fiends.

[Curious]

Note that whomever wrote that version (as well as whomever wrote the original) was rather dumb, since there are uses for Mind Seed (beyond curing Mind Seed) that aren't Evil, such as what you want it for. Your clones don't have minds, so overwriting Nothing with You is Evil how?

Really, it depends totally on why you're doing it and the circumstances you're in as to whether this is Evil or not.

No psionic power should have the [Evil] descriptor, I think, except maybe the horribad ones in CPsi that turn you into half-fiends.

My character is doing it because he is a paranoid schemer who wants to confuse his enemies and simultaneously gain minions he knows are going to be loyal (probably). But I agree, branding spells as EVIL is generally stupid. I have the same problem with things like Animate Dead. You could put those things to perfectly healthy uses!

[Rubik]

My character is doing it because he is a paranoid schemer who wants to confuse his enemies and simultaneously gain minions he knows are going to be loyal (probably). But I agree, branding spells as EVIL is generally stupid. I have the same problem with things like Animate Dead. You could put those things to perfectly healthy uses!Well, healthy for everyone but the people you turned undead, anyway.

[Heatwizard]

My character is doing it because he is a paranoid schemer who wants to confuse his enemies and simultaneously gain minions he knows are going to be loyal (probably).

What if a clone decides he doesn't want to be the minion, and tries to kill you and take your place as the 'alpha'?

[Rubik]

What if a clone decides he doesn't want to be the minion, and tries to kill you and take your place as the 'alpha'?Then he'll be 8 levels higher and can kill much more effectively.

Or he'll just re-Mind Seed the clone.

[Heatwizard]

Then he'll be 8 levels higher and can kill much more effectively.

Or he'll just re-Mind Seed the clone.

Yeah, but that's not assured loyalty. If what you want is dudes who will always listen to you, what you want is necromancy, or golems, or something.

[Crasical]

Branding spells as EVIL is generally stupid. I have the same problem with things like Animate Dead. You could put those things to perfectly healthy uses!

It's up to the individual GM, really. When one of my players asked why a spell that crushed someone's heart had the 'Evil' tag while a spell that set them on fire didn't, I told him that various descriptor spells require tapping into energies from the outer planes. So when someone casts an Evil descriptor spell, REGARDLESS of their intent, they have brought a little more Evil into the world to fuel the spell.

[Rubik]

It's up to the individual GM, really. When one of my players asked why a spell that crushed someone's heart had the 'Evil' tag while a spell that set them on fire didn't, I told him that various descriptor spells require tapping into energies from the outer planes. So when someone casts an Evil descriptor spell, REGARDLESS of their intent, they have brought a little more Evil into the world to fuel the spell.Doesn't quite work with psionics being 100% internal and all.

CPsi is an abomination for that reason. Divinely-granted psionics? Bleh.

[Curious]

It's up to the individual GM, really. When one of my players asked why a spell that crushed someone's heart had the 'Evil' tag while a yeah, spell that set them on fire didn't, I told him that various descriptor spells require tapping into energies from the outer planes. So when someone casts an Evil descriptor spell, REGARDLESS of their intent, they have brought a little more Evil into the world to fuel the spell.

Yeah, I really don't like the idea of 'evil' being an actual energy. That just. . . No. Honestly, whenever I run 3.P games, I almost always abolish alignment rules altogether.

[Crasical]

Yeah, I really don't like the idea of 'evil' being an actual energy. That just. . . No. Honestly, whenever I run 3.P games, I almost always abolish alignment rules altogether.

I imagine that makes Paladins and Inquisitors a bit harder to run.