League of Legends XXVIII: Ahri-Vederci, Dodge. Hello, Viktory.

[Dogmantra]

League of Legends XXVIII:
Ahri-Vederci, Dodge. Hello, Viktory.


You can sign up for League of Legends here (http://signup.leagueoflegends.com/en/signup/). It's a free MOBA, based on Defence of the Ancients.

We maintain lists of players, sorted by server. If you are not on these lists and would like to be, please post in the thread with the following information in bold: Server (if you don't know it, it's likely the region you're in, but it's worth checking anyway), your Forum Name and your Summoner Name
If no reply's been made about adding you after a day or two, first check the lists to see if you've been added, if not, feel free to post again or PM me. Any incorrectly formatted posts will probably be overlooked.

NA Server
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
9mm | cwcriner
Adumbration | Benefice
aethernox | aethernox
Alemil | Alemil
Alter | AlterForm
Anonomuss | OpticalSage
ArcanistSupreme | Arcanist Supreme
Arbitrarity | Arbitrarity
Archangel Yuki | Yocham
assassin89 | nineballcirno
Astrella | Sirroelivan
AtwasAwamps | AtwasAwamps
Aurenthal | Estor
Baron Corm | Baron Corm
Baxter | Thefettered
BinaryMage | BinaryMage
Brother Oni | MarineHK4861
Bliss Authority | Companion N00b
Caradryan | Ying Quliang
cdstephens | cdstephens
Copacetic | Azbu
Creed | Moarzed
CrnvorousMeece | CarnivorousMeece
Croverus | Croverus
Cute_Riolu | Cute Riolu
Dallas-Dakota | MustacheMan
Dante & Vergil | Raphiezar
Darth Mario | Darth Mario
Daverin | Daverin
Dentrag2 | Callinectes
dgnslyr | GANKERLagann
Dichotomy | Kaellin
Djinn in Tonic | The Djinn
Dogmantra | Dogmantra
douglas | DouglasM
Dragonus45 | Dragonus45
Drager0 | Drager0
Dragor | Supernaturalist
Draken | Draken Frosthand
DrakeRaids | DrakeRaids057
Dralnu | TomerIsHot
dukexx | JacksonHicks
Duos | DapperGuy
Eldariel | Elealar
efdf | efdf
Elagune | Chopstyx
EndlessWrath | Andurin
Errandir | Ramses III
EternalMelon | EternalMelon
faith | Ferrovax101
FantomFang | FantomFang
Faulty | FaultyClockwork
Fawkes | Count Fawkes
FeverFox | Alcopop
Flechair | Master Zealot
Folytopo | Folytopo
Frankelshtein | McFinkelstein
Fredaintdead | Fredthefighter
Geigan | Geigan
glemis | glemis
Giant Panda | Le Shirrif
Godskook | Bethor Kookalian
Gourtox | Gourtox
Gruffard | Gruffard
Hanuman | HanumanXoO
Hatevah | Hatevah
Incomp | Incomp
InyutheBeatIs | Believe Inyu
Istari | IstariK
Ivellius | Ivellius
Jamin | CapZich
Joran | Jorana
KaizoMK | KaizoMK
Kara Kuro | RaptorKitty
Kciemir | Ghostface Ki11ah
Kettle | Kettle747
king.com | kingcom
Kinslayer | HaunterReqiuem
kmchii | kmchii
Kopaka | CelesHurricane
Kwazey | Kwazey
LegoShrimp | LegoShrimp
litewarior | litewarior
Lix Lorn | ElixiaLorn
Lord Generic | Lord Generic
LordShotGun | LordShotGun
LostEnder | LostEnder
Low-Key | TheFuzziestBear
lvl 1 sharnian | StarryEagle
Lyxie | Lyxie
Maeglin_Dubh | Tycho Velius
Makensha | Jarbis
MammonAzrael | MammonAzrael
Manticoran | Manticoran
MasatoHyuga | MasatoHyuga
Master_Rahl22 | Goltoth
master256 | QWERTYSTOP
Math_Mage | Mathmage
Mattarias, King. | Mattarias
Malmagor Andrigal | Madmal
Maxios | Maxios20
Meatshield#236 | Meatshield236
Merellis | Merellis
Mike_the_Mystic | Kraemer
Milskidasith | Milskidasith
Mindfreak586 | Mindfreak586
Mirrinus | Parallaxal
Miscast_Mage | MiscastMage
Moklok | KokoBWare
mrzomby | mrzomby
Mtg_player_zach | MtgPlayerZach
Mushroom Ninja | Mushroom Ninja
Mutant Bunny | WhollySpart
Nanoblack | IwearSILLYhats
Nargan | Naryuk
Necroticplague | Yamidamian
NeoVid | NeoVid
neXianXavia | neXianXavia
Octopus Jack | Thalric
PersonMan | Nsev
Pie Guy | Qwazes
pilvento | Kandrass
PhoeKun | PhoeKun
Poison Fish | Baron Von Flib
Protecar | Godreig
Protecar | Atk
Psychotic | SquirrelFish
Qaera | Qaera
Raistlin1040 | Sanevale
Rama | Nargus
Raroy | setokaibasmt
RationalGoblin | AtillathePun
Raveypoos | Rhaviewoos
recklessabaddon | recklessabaddon
revolver kobold | A Magic Kobold
Reynard | Duke Reynington
Serpentine | Lady Serpentine
Shades of Gray | PierreAbelard
shadowwalker64 | shadowwalker65
Shadowleaf | Shadowdancing
Shadow Lord | ShadowLordgiantitp
ShortOne | LittlePoppy
SidCoolios | Irazel
Silverraptor | Silverraptor
Sircarp | Sircarp
SirSigfried | LibertarianSDR
Slash_712 | Catfud
sofawall | sofawall
St. Viers | St.Viers
Starfols | Starfols
SuperPanda | Lokilar
SweetRein | SweetRein
TalonDemonKing | TalonDemonKing
TechnOkami | Techn0kami
Temotei | Temotei221
Terazul | Allegretto
term1nally s1ck | silverdevilboy
Thanatos 51-50 | Thanatos Erebus
The_Fiery_Tower | TheFieryTower
TheGlowingRogue | I Glow In Dark
Thethan | Thethan
The Rabbler | Paco H Jones
The Shadowmind | The Shadowmind
The Valiant Turtle | Valiant Turtle
Thrantar | Thrantar
Thrawn183 | Thrawnyboy
throtecutter | throtecutter
toasty | toastymow
Tono | Tono Chou
Treayn | Treayn
tribble | Smallbluedot
Tychris1 | Tychris1
userpay | userpay
Vauron | Vauron
Volatar | The Volatar
wandiya | wandiya
Winterwind | DreamingHeart
Winthur | Seyruun
woodzyowl | Woodzyowl
Zabel_Zarock | Jon Talbain
Zeful | Zeful
ZeltArruin | ZeltArruin
Zemro | Shivic
ZeroNumerous | ZeroNumerous
Zeteni | Zeteni
0tt3r | 0tt3r[/table]

EU Server--West
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Acromos | Crannoch
Adumbration | Adumbration
Anonomuss | Anonomuss
Brother Oni | MarineHK4861
Cheers | Sam vds
Cyborg Mage | Cyborg Mage98
Eldariel | Elealar
Even Human | SlyGuyMcFly
Gauntlet | Isva
HalfDragonCube | giantmudkip
Maxymiuk | Maxymiuk
Mc. Lovin | B1GB1RDB4G3L
Miscast_Mage | MiscastMage
Morph Bark | Morpheus Bob
Nargan | Naryuk
PersonMan | Scarge
Reynard | Duke Reyn
Talesin | Fridgecake
term1nally s1ck | Silverdevilboy
That'd_be_me | AntiLocke
Winterwind | DreamingHeart
Ziren | Zirenoid[/table]

EU Server--Nordic & East
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Dada | Scrattlebeard
Posca | LDRC
Rockbird | Rockbird[/table]

EU Server--Unspecified
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Abakus | Terpfen
Alemil | Alemil
Ayra | Ayramatao
Darwin | DarwinBeGood
Endoperez | Endoperez
Heliomance | Sidhe de Grian
Kurrel | GrinningOni
littlebottom | Littlebottom
lord_khaine | Lord_khaine
Narazil | Narazil
Narkis | Narkis
Penthar | Malderon
Raviepoos | Skittles Unicorn
Shadowleaf | AncientPharma
shadowwalker64 | shadowwalker64
Socratov | Mbutu
Voidhawk | Sidhe ne Awk
Volatar | VolatarUK
Zefir | Einerwie
Zombywoof | Zombywoof[/table]

SEA Server
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
abadguy | Smite Thy Enemy[/table]

MUMBLE
Download here! (http://mumble.sourceforge.net/)
Our main means of communication is a mumble server, playing host to a variety of games, including LoL. We're quite a tight knit community, get to know us! Hanging about is a good way to find a game, and if you don't fancy playing something there's always a good chance of a friendly chat. Contact Djinn_in_Tonic via PM if you have a question or want to donate money to keep the server running.
Address: fish.mumbleboxes.com
Port: 36003

Admins: Djinn_in_Tonic (Djinn); Darth Mario; ShortOne (LittlePoppy, Raven); Dogmantra; Nano (Nanoceraptor).

STREAMS
Some of us run streams. You can watch them here.
Silverraptor (http://www.livestream.com/silverrapter?t=527242)
Lyxie (http://www.own3d.tv/lyxie)

GUIDES
Sometimes people write guides and post them in this thread. Other times pro players write guides that people then post in this thread. They often end up here.
General
Guide to General Common Jungler Set-Ups (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12409551&postcount=575), by Mtg_player_zach
Small Guide to Jungle Counterpicking (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12379254&postcount=98), by Winthur
General Guide to AD Carries (http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=9234)
Into the Wild - Guide to Being a Better Jungler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10867111#post10867111) by Mtg_player_zach
Seizing the fourth digit: Playing your way out of Elo Hell. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=341821) by Math_Mage
Faulty and Raistlin's Quick Build Database: Notes and Stuff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10942497&postcount=1004) by Faulty and Raistlin
Turning Skill Into Elo: Solo Queue Mindset And Methodology (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1220673) by MathMage
How to be a Good Team Leader (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1374492) by Darth Mario

Specific Champions
Highly Artistic Blitzcrank guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12380155&postcount=115), by Dogmantra
Laser Bear Udyr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9657101&postcount=39), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Rammus: Can't touch this (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=258919), by Math_Mage
Twitch (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board
[URL="http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10267058&postcount=1448), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Jungle Akali (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10498621&postcount=1358) by Djinn
How to play everyone's favourite Lightning Squirrel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10518034&postcount=154) by Dogmantra
Lee Sin (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=636475) by Dralnu
Super Serious Rumble Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11052926&postcount=904) by Dogmantra
Jax (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11252389&postcount=652) by Mtg_player_zach
OH SNAP Morgana Can Jungle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11295698&postcount=1238) by Dogmantra
Anivia Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11514141&postcount=845) by Eldariel
Tristana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11938481&postcount=1029) by MathMage

CLASSY VIDEOS FOR CLASSY PEOPLE
Watching these videos makes you a classier person. Fact.
Jungle Janna! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC6wm9iaNmM)
How to Win Every Game in League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrsTE1vpoXM)
Panic at the Nexus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WlCbaLI3I)
Sunfire Cape Sunday (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgjfX6crjrg)
Season One Trailer with Commentary (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/news/season-one-trailer-commentary)
D-Town (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wHp4VJ47v0)
Insanity Mix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGKN1Adzckk&feature=related)
(Truly, Truly) Outrageous (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC7S05vI-BU&feature=related)
I'm just a noob (Ryze Ryze Ryze again) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpr1T-pgaZY&feature=related)
e.o.n Shen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHs_cGUPQ3M&feature=related)
Vendrim-Ionia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry3E2UQMe3k&hd=1)
Pwn ur FACE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf9VSDt0EN4)
Your -Epic- Dreamhack comes true! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKCs1CyBFLg)
Ezreal Custom Skin Spotlight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn-HoAPlg-c)
I Just Got Ganked (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpNVN33fj4Y&feature=channel_video_title)
Keep Feeding (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaR0frKc4a0)
Champion Rap Battles -- Brolaf vs. Gentleman Cho'Gath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ-r300BVFI)
Combinasion BOOM! League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwzsXR4sM_Y)
All in the Cards (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9d3342IXSs)
No One Ganks Like Garen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD4uiTQsRJg)
Rammus Taunts Everyone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-8Q4PM4PXM)

COMICS AND PICS
It's like your eyes are getting a massage.
LoL Comic (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=48169) by Elagune
Learn Your Alphabet (http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6264/g28376.png) by Dogmantra and Pierreabelard (with a mention in Summoner Showcase #36 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy7JWV-HA28&feature=feedu)!)
Chibi Champions (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=763895) by pika7
Gender Swaps (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=606416) by ShowMeYourMoves
Champion Flowchart Guides (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=608154) by Renekton Bot
Patch Day Comic (http://i.imgur.com/kHtwk.jpg) by DaemianFF

TRAVEL BACK IN TIME: PREVIOUS THREADS
Proof we're not all experiencing collective haullucinations.
League of Legends XXVII: Your Sister's Hotter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225730)
League of Legends XXVI: We've officially jumped the shark (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223894)
League of Legends XXV: Who is your Summoner, and what does he do? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221849)
League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219436)
League of Legends XXIII: gunbladeface.jpg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217744)
League of Legends XXII: Teamwork OP, Nerf Nao (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215725)
League of Legends XXI: For The Love Of God Amumu, Stop Crying! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213794)
League of Legends XX: Riot's in the Playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211977)
League of Legends XIX: 15 million players, and nary a Morgana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210332)
League of Legends: XVIII: ┻━┻ ︵ （╯°□°）╯ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207908)
League of Legends XVII: Gondor Has No Tank, Gondor Needs No Tank (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205488)
League of Legends XVI: Alas, Poor Game Balance, I Knew Him, Morello (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203298)
League of Legends XV: Robots Are Better Than Trees (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201024)
League of Legends XIV: We're So Broken That We're OP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198948)
League of Legends XIII: Our Skill is Hard to Deny (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196765)
League of Legends XII: It's Worth It Because I Said So In The Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194886)
League of Legends XI: It's Hard to Post Like This in Heels (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192695)
League of Legends X: Armored Armadillo Delivers Ambiguous Affirmative (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10646164#post10646164)
League of Legends IX: New Thread Available! Only 6300 IP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188076)
League of Legends VIII: Gali-Os: They're idolicious! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185516)
League of Legends 7: Truly, Truly Outrageous! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182486)
League of Legends 6: Jannaaaaaaaaaa! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178334)
League of Legends 5: Tall Grass Used Garen! DEMACIAAA! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173805)
League of Legends 4:CAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAW (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169616)
League of Legends 3: You only need to click once (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164008s)
League of Legends Goes Where It Pleases 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158135)
League Of Legends: We post where we please. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139094)

[Shadowleaf]

I love what you did with the title. :smallbiggrin:


I'd take a RoA over a GA for Amumu. With the build you had, you only have your base damage really. The RoA gives you a little bit of AP (which Amumu loves) and gives you a little extra damage while still giving you HP and Mana. It helps you be a more than a CC bot.

Another route you can go is the Dan Dinh method and go Tanky AP Amumu with a WotA thrown in there for the Spellvamp and AP. Dan is scary as Amumu.
My standard normal game build for Amumu is Philo Stone, Merc Treads, RoA, Rylai's, Deathcap, Banshee's Veil and a Frozen Heart. I rarely go below a positive score, and most of the time I have 6-10 times as many assists as I have deaths. I think I even have a picture of my recently-ish games as Amumu lying around.

Edit: Yep, here it is (there aren't a lot of recent games as I've been playing Udyr while jungling instead):

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/291/lolndd.png

[Duos]

Gentlemen! After my last headset mic broke last summer, I was despondent, for I could no longer speak with my fellow Leaguers. But now, after months of waiting, and nearly a week of trying to fix the bloody mic on a brand-new headset...

Duos has a voice again! Ah, it's great to be able to actually talk again. Maybe I'll actually be able to play a game or two with you guys, if you don't mind my overall awful play. :smallbiggrin:

[Volatar]

Oh hey, it's a new thread. Now I am really, really behind.

[Mutant Bunny]

What he said. :smallamused:

In other news, I finally broke my 5-game losing streak, just in time for the new thread.

[Dogmantra]

Every time I make the new thread I change the first post and get mega worried that I'll upset someone by moving things around even though the last person to make a large change tends to be me anyway. Do we like the current first post though?

[Eldariel]

Sir, it should be Ahri-vederci.

[Dogmantra]

Sir, it should be Ahri-vederci.

It couldn't be a new LoL thread without SOMEONE finding issue with the title. :smallwink:

Fixed.

[Eldariel]

It couldn't be a new LoL thread without SOMEONE finding issue with the title. :smallwink:

Fixed.

For the first time it is I, though. :smalltongue: But yeah, given "Arriverdici" doesn't mean anything this makes more sense (let this be an Italian lesson to everybody - "arrivederci" = "farewell")!

[Duos]

I feel like stress-testing my computer to see if it can run music, mumble, and LoL without collapsing and spontaneously combusting.

Who's up for a game?

[Shadowleaf]

I am seriously contemplating starting a NA alt account in order to play with more GitP folks. The EUW activity seems a little on the low side.

[sucatraps]

I certainly get the impression, judging by the Mumble server, that NA is fairly popular.

[Shadowleaf]

The average amount of online GitP members on EUW during primtime seems to be 1-3*.



*Of those I have on my friends' list.

[sucatraps]

I've got 14 on my friend's list, but about 40 on Mumble atm.

[Shadowleaf]

Yea, I'm starting a NA alt now. Apparently I have to download 160 MB of stuff for some reason.

[Reynard]

Yea, I'm starting a NA alt now. Apparently I have to download 160 MB of stuff for some reason.

It keeps the stuff separate, for some ungodly reason, so every patch you'll have to patch for both servers.


Slightly related note, I spotted I didn't ever get myself added to the playerlist, so if Dogmantra could be so kind:

NA Server: Duke Reynington.
EUW Server, Duke Reyn.

[Shadowleaf]

It keeps the stuff separate, for some ungodly reason, so every patch you'll have to patch for both servers.


Slightly related note, I spotted I didn't ever get myself added to the playerlist, so if Dogmantra could be so kind:

NA Server: Duke Reynington.
EUW Server, Duke Reyn.You're kidding. So I have to install all the updates now?

:smallannoyed:

[Reynard]

You're kidding. So I have to install all the updates now?

:smallannoyed:

That's what it's doing, yeah.

[Shadowleaf]

That's what it's doing, yeah.1 update later and I'm good to go. Huh.


Edit: Dogmantra, will you add Shadowdancing on NA?

[Reynard]

1 update later and I'm good to go. Huh.

The first time, it does it all at once, hence "160mb of stuff"

[Shadowleaf]

The first time, it does it all at once, hence "160mb of stuff"I'm fairly certain I downloaded a lot more than 160mb when I installed the client updated it for EUW.

[Tesla_pasta]

I've been posting on the LOL threads for a bit, but I forgot to give my summoner name

on the NA server, I'm Generictownsman

[Reinboom]

The initial separation is for language differences, mostly.
It keeps en_US and en_GB separate, you most likely didn't have the en_US files if you were on EUW. The reason why this is so large is it includes some sound files as well.

[Dallas-Dakota]

On the bright side, no Server downtimes, since EU and NA have different, set downtimes, you just need to switch server.:smallbiggrin:

[Moonshadow]

The initial separation is for language differences, mostly.
It keeps en_US and en_GB separate, you most likely didn't have the en_US files if you were on EUW. The reason why this is so large is it includes some sound files as well.

REINA. Please tell me that we're getting a champ whose name starts with a Q some time soon. My OCD demands it >.>

[Qaera]

REINA. Please tell me that we're getting a champ whose name starts with a Q some time soon. My OCD demands it >.>

Qaera? :smalltongue:

~ ♅

[Terribad]

CASSIOPEIA

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?!

I don't get why I'm not doing well with her. She has a great kit and great team fight ult. But somehow I do better with Lux or Morg (granted I played more games with the latter two)

Runes: Mpen Reds, Mana Regen/Lvl yellows, AP or CDR Blues, AP quints
Masteries: 21/0/9 (Utility: mana, mana regen and buff duration)
Skill Order: Q W E Q E R, maxing RQEW
Item build:
Boots (Sorc Boots), 3 pots
Dorans if not doing well, otherwise rush Catalyst
RoA
Deathcap
WoTA or Abyssal
Another Derpcap or Void

What kind of team comps go well with Cass? I find due to her short range she needs a bit more beefiness hence RoA and Possibly Rylais but without an early Cap, her damage isn't that high.

Laning phase I play fine with her. Harass like mad with Q, land E whenever possible. Its the transition that has me stumped. Playing advice for mid-late game appreciated!

On another note, Ahri ... is it me or does her base HP seem high for a mage?

[Morph Bark]

Whoah
That's a full mumble
all the way

You win the last thread.


Okay, so I blame the old sprite comic Bob and George for this, but every time I see a Viktor and he dies, I imagine that it's actually cheaper not to revive him, but just to make a new one out of SUPERIOR RUSSIAN PARTS COMRADE, a la Ran >_>

Ah, Bob and George. One of the few webcomics that I could rely on for a daily fix. Shame it ended, but it went out in the best way it could. Now I'm thinking we should find LoL equivalents of the characters.


In other news, I'm really liking Shyvana on TT. Do better with her than jungling on SR.

[Istari]

So after some curiosity, I checked some gender statistics for all the champions, dividing it up by human (actual humans plus whatever Jax/Yi and Kass/Malz are), semi-humans (Yordels, Undead, other mostly humans), and non-human (Other races)

There were more males in every category, significantly more human males than semi-human males and only one non-human female (Anivia).

Feel free to ask where I placed specific champs?

Specific Numbers

Male Human - 26
Male Semi- Human - 14
Male Non-Human - 21
Female Human - 17
Female Semi-Human - 10
Female Non-Human - 1

[tyckspoon]

There were more males in every category, significantly more human males than semi-human males and only one non-human female (Anivia).


Orianna? Or do you have her filed with semi-human?

[Istari]

Orianna? Or do you have her filed with semi-human?

I went semi with Orianna since she was designed off a girl and is a very humanoid robot, either way though, there is a distinct lack of non-human females. I find it pretty interesting too, even without the void beings and such, there aren't any females of other races like Warwick, Nasus or Renekton.

[Eldariel]

So after some curiosity, I checked some gender statistics for all the champions, dividing it up by human (actual humans plus whatever Jax/Yi and Kass/Malz are), semi-humans (Yordels, Undead, other mostly humans), and non-human (Other races)

There were more males in every category, significantly more human males than semi-human males and only one non-human female (Anivia).

Feel free to ask where I placed specific champs?

Specific Numbers

Male Human - 26
Male Semi- Human - 14
Male Non-Human - 21
Female Human - 17
Female Semi-Human - 10
Female Non-Human - 1

Kog'Maw and Cho'Gath were counted as males? May I ask, on what basis?

[Dragonus45]

It couldn't be a new LoL thread without SOMEONE finding issue with the title. :smallwink:

Fixed.

Honestly dog if i had seen it was changing i was just going to name it mundo names what he pleases in honor of the tradition.

[Baxter190]

Kog'Maw and Cho'Gath were counted as males? May I ask, on what basis?

Well, Cho'gath must be male because he's a gentleman. As for Kog'Maw, who knows. Kog'Maw is more like a void dog for malzahar.

[Talesin]

Can you add me to the title post please. I'm Fridgecake on EUWest

Started playing a few ranked games over the christmas period.

First 2 games I get assigned AD carry, which isn't a huge problem as i've got a pretty broad champion roster that i'm 'ok' with, so I pick Ashe twice. Get 40:1 KDA ratio with a death in the second game. Then i'm told to support for the next 2 games, I pick Janna in the first and we get obliterated by a fed Kennen after Xerath has a bad game. Taric in the second with my friend jungling Udyr and we take the enemy team apart, taking all dragons and 3 of the first 4 of their blues, as i'm looking at the map pretty much the whole time as the Graves i'm with is more or less carrying this lane with me just throwing a stun or two on to the enemy tristana.

Ended up with 3 losses in my first 10 games and am currently at 1410 rating (though I could see it falling). Lost the Janna game above where I played pretty awfully, a game where one of our players didn't realise it was his turn to pick (He was 2nd and I was 3rd pick) despite me asking repeatidly what he wanted to play and then him getting random eve and deciding he'd jungle (despite a huge leash on the blue by myself and the solo top udyr, blue leashed back and executed him). Managed to win my mid lane as Teemo against Brand but not convincing enough to carry my team. Final loss was a game as Graves where a Wukong and Rammus just shut me down so effectively I couldn't really bring any damage to the table without getting destroyed.

Has anyone got any tips to prevent the final loss happening again? I just found it impossible to get anywhere near their squishies and while I don't want to blame my team, despite the one team fight shen managed to taunt both Wukong and Rammus we took 4 of them apart for only 1 death, I feel I wasn't getting the protection I try to give my carries when i'm playing support/tank or brusier.

Also, counters for Nasus. I was told Udyr and GP tend to do quite well, and looking at their kits I can see why, but is there a champion who is capable of actually getting Nasus out of lane or does the jungler just have to put a little more focus on to Nasus than other top lanes?

Hope everyone had a good festive period!

[Winthur]

The initial separation is for language differences, mostly.
It keeps en_US and en_GB separate, you most likely didn't have the en_US files if you were on EUW.

My face when Americans call "wobbly flip-shutters" doors, a "cuff-link time Johnny" is a watch and a "hooty tooty point and shooty" a gun. :smallannoyed:



Also, counters for Nasus. I was told Udyr and GP tend to do quite well, and looking at their kits I can see why, but is there a champion who is capable of actually getting Nasus out of lane or does the jungler just have to put a little more focus on to Nasus than other top lanes?

Nasus is kind of hard to move but a harassing lane with range should do the work (Vayne, Graves, Corki). Renekton is a direct lane counter, Wukong should do well too. You can try Garen. Ryze counters most melees and he has just as scary of a late game. Singed vs Nasus is a farmfest and makes Singed the troll god. Cho'gath works decently too.


Has anyone got any tips to prevent the final loss happening again? I just found it impossible to get anywhere near their squishies and while I don't want to blame my team, despite the one team fight shen managed to taunt both Wukong and Rammus we took 4 of them apart for only 1 death, I feel I wasn't getting the protection I try to give my carries when i'm playing support/tank or brusier.

As an AD carry, your ultimate fate is to become an unstoppable damage dealer that shreds right through their tanks so it doesn't matter WHAT he hits, he still hits like a truck. Fed carries like Vayne can 3-shot supertanky Udyr builds, and even carries with lesser damage like Caitlyn and Graves are fully capable of it. With a full build (Infinity Edge, Phantom Dancer and Last Whisper as the absolute core, with Bloodthirster for more damage) you should have been able to kite them and deal damage to them just well enough; indeed, as an AD carry you aren't supposed to get to the squishies if it means getting out of position. What I do in a lot of teamfights as an AD carry is I just walk around the perimeter, behind my teammates and use my "A" button to click the ground near the fight and attack whatever is near, unless an opportunity to focus someone who's a threat presents itself. Also, Quicksilver Sash is a wonderful item to get when you're facing strong CC like Rammus' taunt.

Also, it seems to me that a lot of your losses stem from your team picking a lot of weird stuff. Teemo mid against Brand? You would have to utterly stomp him to not make Brand's burst more relevant than Teemo's cuteness, and even then I don't think it's a particularly favorable matchup for Teemo. You had a Shen in your Graves game? Well, unless you committed to split pushing a lot or he won his top lane as Shens are supposed to, he was probably deadweight.

[tyckspoon]

Also, counters for Nasus. I was told Udyr and GP tend to do quite well, and looking at their kits I can see why, but is there a champion who is capable of actually getting Nasus out of lane or does the jungler just have to put a little more focus on to Nasus than other top lanes?


Sure, send a good ranged up there instead, preferably somebody with a very strong level 1-4ish game (MF or Tristana, perhaps, with their easy access to heal-reduction effects.) Any time Nasus tries to get close enough to a minion to last hit, shoot him in the face (incidentally, this is how I'd consider GP to counter Nasus; Parrley him regularly, especially if you have an AD and/or crit page of runes to use with it. A crit Parrley will shove anybody out of lane at low levels.) You should either make him desperate and start auto-attacking minions to try and heal, in which case lane push -> all the ganks, or start trying to counter-harass you with Spirit Fire/defend himself with Wither, in which case he's *not* using his mana and his attention to farm up Siphoning Strike, and you have successfully derailed his attempt to achieve Fully Operational Battlestation status. Anybody who is tough/sustainable enough to come out positive from trading against an autoattack+Siphoning Strike with Nasus is probably also alright, since while it hurts it means he's not using that SS cooldown to farm a minion and stack its damage. So.. a lot like laning against Vlad, really- shove him around at low levels before his primary nuke/sustain ability is leveled to a decent cooldown, only with Nasus you have the advantage of him being primarily melee.

(The other thing is, if you notice the rest of his team is running around somewhere and Nasus is still peacefully farming a lane? Don't let him do that. Every wave Nasus gets to go through without somebody at least trying to bother him is more pain you're going to suffer when he decides he's had enough and joins in the fights.)

[Raistlin1040]

Warwick should be counted as a Human, I think. The lore specifically says he's a werewolf, meaning that he probably still has a human form, it just wouldn't be useful on the Fields of Justice.

[Draken]

CASSIOPEIA

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?!

I don't get why I'm not doing well with her. She has a great kit and great team fight ult. But somehow I do better with Lux or Morg (granted I played more games with the latter two)

Runes: Mpen Reds, Mana Regen/Lvl yellows, AP or CDR Blues, AP quints
Masteries: 21/0/9 (Utility: mana, mana regen and buff duration)
Skill Order: Q W E Q E R, maxing RQEW
Item build:
Boots (Sorc Boots), 3 pots
Dorans if not doing well, otherwise rush Catalyst
RoA
Deathcap
WoTA or Abyssal
Another Derpcap or Void

What kind of team comps go well with Cass? I find due to her short range she needs a bit more beefiness hence RoA and Possibly Rylais but without an early Cap, her damage isn't that high.

Laning phase I play fine with her. Harass like mad with Q, land E whenever possible. Its the transition that has me stumped. Playing advice for mid-late game appreciated!

On another note, Ahri ... is it me or does her base HP seem high for a mage?

Go with the AP blues for Cass, CDR doesn't do a whole lot for her.

But most important of all, your skilling priority is wrong. Q and W are pretty much only for applying poison and E is her primary source of damage, so it must be focused. Q>W>E>E>E>R or Q>E>W>E>E>E>R ( and then R>E>Q=W) are the usual skilling options.

[Talesin]

As an AD carry

That's some good advice and I think I should've got QSS thinking back over it. I'd grabbed Merc Treads just because of the issues i'd had with Rammus during the lane phase. He didn't secure a kill but a few variables going the other way and I could easily have been 2-3 deaths rather than a few escapes.

I was trying to keep my damage up by just unloading into anything that got near. Picking up a frozen mallet meant Wukong wasn't as much of a problem towards the end and given a few seconds on him I could take him to pieces. Good advice and i'll see if I can improve this part of my game



Also, it seems to me that a lot of your losses stem from your team picking a lot of weird stuff. Teemo mid against Brand? You would have to utterly stomp him to not make Brand's burst more relevant than Teemo's cuteness, and even then I don't think it's a particularly favorable matchup for Teemo. You had a Shen in your Graves game? Well, unless you committed to split pushing a lot or he won his top lane as Shens are supposed to, he was probably deadweight.

Well the Teemo mid was a stupid situation overall. The guy random picking Eve because he didn't know it was his turn to pick a character (and then spending the entire game moaning about how riot had ruined his fun by not telling him to pick) and then deciding to Jungle instead of the Udyr after we'd all picked meant I ended up mid vs Brand rather than top vs Nasus. Though i'm fairly certain I would've struggled up there as I think he may have counter picked me. I did ok against Brand. Killed him twice and only died when I went roaming to save the jungle eve top only to be destroyed by Nasus and then again bottom when Brand's ulti caught the Eve standing on top of me (I was recalling) and subsequently took us both to pieces.



Nasus Talk

Just to cut down how long this post is going to end up. I think i'll try and stick a ranged person top next time. If you put a ranged carry, like MF or Tristana, what would you do with the bottom lane? Pick an AD as normal or would you put the top player bottom, using whatever character he was going to use anyway, or try to get him to pick something to stop the AD/support.

I guess its not always an option during solo/duo queue but i'd quite like to get a 5s team up at some point so it'll be good to bear in mind.

Thanks for the replies so far.

[Mc. Lovin']

My face when Americans call "wobbly flip-shutters" doors, a "cuff-link time Johnny" is a watch and a "hooty tooty point and shooty" a gun. :smallannoyed:

And "Rooty pooty legs a scooty" running :smallconfused:

[Morph Bark]

My face when Americans call "wobbly flip-shutters" doors, a "cuff-link time Johnny" is a watch and a "hooty tooty point and shooty" a gun. :smallannoyed:

I presume they do the opposite, as the way you say it you're the one saying the things between the " marks.


Btw, what items give a visual effect on your champion? I know of Guardian Angel, Sunfire Cape and Mana Manipulator. Any others? I feel like getting all those items, all the Elixers and all the buffs, just 'cause.

Preferably on Taric. :smalltongue:

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Btw, what items give a visual effect on your champion? I know of Guardian Angel, Sunfire Cape and Mana Manipulator. Any others? I feel like getting all those items, all the Elixers and all the buffs, just 'cause.

Preferably on Taric. :smalltongue:

Aegis, WotA and Starks are the main ones that come to mind.

[Adumbration]

What counters Urgot solo top? Just got him, and he feels pretty invincible.

1) You can't fight him early levels. His Q practically doubles his autoattacks and he automatically debuffs your damage.
2) His harass is godly. If he hits you with his E, you will be hit with a minimum of 3 Qs. Juking it is hard because Qs can hit you even in the brush and E is on low cd.
3) He has a shield, mitigating common harass methods such as Gangplank parrley.
4) His ultimate is a nasty piece of work that will reposition you, provide Urgot with a massive buff and suppresses for the duration of possible Exhausts, debuffs and Tryndamere ults.
5) He has a slow, providing a soft CC to ease the gank by his jungler.

Worst of all, he doesn't really fall off mid to late game. He is hard to kill, carries hard CC, has nice sustain damage, debuffs your armor and your damage and is a general pain in the butt overall. Any ideas?

[Morph Bark]

Okay, screw Taric because the only way I could complete that build would be in Dominion (where all the buffs and elixirs are unavailable) or in an asslong Classic game where I get fed, which isn't gonna happen with that build and because he's a support, and I cannot even play him against two bots at once because then I get outpushed and if I play him against one bot my minions outpush them.

Any good damage-dealing champs that also have such extra visual effects that they get upon doing something? If there aren't any, I would play with Cho'Gath, Nasus or Renekton, but I have none of them.

[Winthur]

Just to cut down how long this post is going to end up. I think i'll try and stick a ranged person top next time. If you put a ranged carry, like MF or Tristana, what would you do with the bottom lane? Pick an AD as normal or would you put the top player bottom, using whatever character he was going to use anyway, or try to get him to pick something to stop the AD/support.

You can do double ranged AD and provided they both get farmed you will have a strong pushing team with great poke.
You can make bottom lane a kill lane with something like Jarvan or Pantheon and Leona.
You can intentionally leave Kassadin or Morgana not banned, put Pantheon mid when they pick them and win the game.
You can do the above and also put Karthus/Soraka bottom and have lulz and win the game.
You can make a team of 5 Pantheons and then wake up in a strange feeling of bliss while your mom is like "Honey why would you change your sheets by yourself O.o" the next morning.

[Talesin]

Any good damage-dealing champs that also have such extra visual effects that they get upon doing something? If there aren't any, I would play with Cho'Gath, Nasus or Renekton, but I have none of them.

Not a great one but Trundle gets the pillar and descrated ground. Morde gets his aoe damage thingy and could get a ghost. Rumble's scrap shield, with the equaliser fired and causing you to overheat via flamethrower guaranteed to kill frames per second with all the extra graphics, Singed with his ult and poison trail, Rammus with ball curl and his ult up.

Thought I guess you're looking for a more sustained look if you mention Taric. Though I guess with all those up, his ult, passive W and something like Shurelya's he'd have a fair number of visible auras for a short period. But like you said, money..

[toasty]

I'd take a RoA over a GA for Amumu. With the build you had, you only have your base damage really. The RoA gives you a little bit of AP (which Amumu loves) and gives you a little extra damage while still giving you HP and Mana. It helps you be a more than a CC bot.

Another route you can go is the Dan Dinh method and go Tanky AP Amumu with a WotA thrown in there for the Spellvamp and AP. Dan is scary as Amumu.

If I had to play Amumu right now I'd probably run the following:

Start Regrowth+Pot
First port: Philo+Boots
Then get: HoG and Merc Treads
Then get: Aegis
After that it depends on your team: Wards, Oracles, as needed (you ARE a support/tank jungle), Shurelias, Omen, Sunfire, FoN, Bveil (one of the things about Amumu is his HP is very low, as a result, Bveil and Sunfire are actually rather nice on him, despite nerfs/meta shifts; FoN is probably still better than Bveil, but Sunfire is nice vs a lot of Armor items).

As to AP Amumu: Its nice. In fact, it sounds awesome, but I really like Aegis. Like, I REALLY like Aegis. If you want a WotA get one of the (many!) viable APs that build it: Karthus, Cass, Ryze, Vlad, Swain, Brand (well, late game), etc. I suppose if you really wanted Double WotA and have an AD top then it works, and I realize Dan Dinh is really good, but I just LOVE Aegis and find that, even with double gold/10, Amumu might not have a lot of gold.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Any good damage-dealing champs that also have such extra visual effects that they get upon doing something? If there aren't any, I would play with Cho'Gath, Nasus or Renekton, but I have none of them.

Sivir would be a good one. 450 IP, farms like a person who is your direct superior in the workplace heirarchy.

[Eldariel]

What counters Urgot solo top? Just got him, and he feels pretty invincible.

1) You can't fight him early levels. His Q practically doubles his autoattacks and he automatically debuffs your damage.
2) His harass is godly. If he hits you with his E, you will be hit with a minimum of 3 Qs. Juking it is hard because Qs can hit you even in the brush and E is on low cd.
3) He has a shield, mitigating common harass methods such as Gangplank parrley.
4) His ultimate is a nasty piece of work that will reposition you, provide Urgot with a massive buff and suppresses for the duration of possible Exhausts, debuffs and Tryndamere ults.
5) He has a slow, providing a soft CC to ease the gank by his jungler.

Worst of all, he doesn't really fall off mid to late game. He is hard to kill, carries hard CC, has nice sustain damage, debuffs your armor and your damage and is a general pain in the butt overall. Any ideas?

"Counter" Urgot? Well, I guess long range mobility champions - anyone with pre-6 blink and longish range - is alright. Ezreal or Kennen, for instance, can do fine. Cassiopeia too. But that's like, true lane domination champions don't have counters. What counters Caitlyn? Nothing (arguably Urgot). What counters Urgot? Nothing. What counters Cassiopeia? Nothing. There's just a bunch of really strong laners that do not have counters.

[Adumbration]

"Counter" Urgot? Well, I guess long range mobility champions - anyone with pre-6 blink and longish range - is alright. Ezreal or Kennen, for instance, can do fine. Cassiopeia too. But that's like, true lane domination champions don't have counters. What counters Caitlyn? Nothing (arguably Urgot). What counters Urgot? Nothing. What counters Cassiopeia? Nothing. There's just a bunch of really strong laners that do not have counters.

Then why aren't they played more? I can remember seeing top Urgot in precisely one tournament, and as far as my memory goes, I haven't seen him in a single high elo stream.

[Eldariel]

Then why aren't they played more? I can remember seeing top Urgot in precisely one tournament, and as far as my memory goes, I haven't seen him in a single high elo stream.

'cause memory of a goldfish, to quote Saintvicious.

EDIT: Seriously though, few top players know how to play Urgot, and Cassiopeia isn't the most commonly mastered AP either. The only top player bothering to actually learn Cassiopeia beyond laning is Ocelote who has her permabanned anyways.

Overall, there's still a lot of champions that simply suffer of lack of players. Some top players have expressed interest in reviving solotop Urgot but nobody's doing it. It doesn't help, of course, that with more and more double AP teams the supereasy lane match-ups are more rare for Urgot.

[Adumbration]

'cause memory of a goldfish, to quote Saintvicious.

EDIT: Seriously though, few top players know how to play Urgot, and Cassiopeia isn't the most commonly mastered AP either. The only top player bothering to actually learn Cassiopeia beyond laning is Ocelote who has her permabanned anyways.

Overall, there's still a lot of champions that simply suffer of lack of players. Some top players have expressed interest in reviving solotop Urgot but nobody's doing it. It doesn't help, of course, that with more and more double AP teams the supereasy lane match-ups are more rare for Urgot.

Well, at least I've found my new go-to solo top champion. :smalltongue: (Just pooped on Riven too, so I think I'm good to go with him in ranked...)

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Then why aren't they played more? I can remember seeing top Urgot in precisely one tournament, and as far as my memory goes, I haven't seen him in a single high elo stream.

I honestly have no idea. I have a friend who used to play Urgot every now and again. He doesn't anymore, claiming that winning every lane was "getting old" and he'd rather play something else. I think Gragas was one of the few champs that would give him trouble.

Way I see it, Urgot should be a no-brainer counter to 90% solo top picks while still doing most of everything that tanky-dps are supposed to do in a teamfight - pretty good disruption, fair amount of beef and a hefty side-order of bash-the-carries'-face-in.

I do often wonder if it's just a question of his design being ugly as sin in a not-at-all-cool way.

[Morph Bark]

I just had a crit of 6 on Shyvana.

how is this possibul

Also, it was going to be the first time I've ever built Atma's. Then they surrendered before I could even get Boots 2.


"Counter" Urgot? Well, I guess long range mobility champions - anyone with pre-6 blink and longish range - is alright. Ezreal or Kennen, for instance, can do fine. Cassiopeia too. But that's like, true lane domination champions don't have counters. What counters Caitlyn? Nothing (arguably Urgot). What counters Urgot? Nothing. What counters Cassiopeia? Nothing. There's just a bunch of really strong laners that do not have counters.

Hence why you probably should put one of those against another one of those.

[efdf]

What counters Urgot solo top? Just got him, and he feels pretty invincible. Any ideas?

Fizz can make the lane really kill heavy one (losing or winning really hard)

AP Yi has a really funny lane phase against him (Q or W all his E, R his R) but can't kill him

Jarvan IV with jungle support will wreck him, he's not mobile enough and doesn't have enough sustain to deal with Jarvan IV

Gragas is really good against him, turns it into a mana war

[Silverraptor]

Long time no see. So me and some people were queueing (SR draft) and then... we randomly ended up against Djinn and co. Derp.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8031/fancymeetingyouhere.png

That feeder Manticoran.:smallamused::smalltongue:

[Lix Lorn]

You win the last thread.
Awww. ^///^


Btw, what items give a visual effect on your champion? I know of Guardian Angel, Sunfire Cape and Mana Manipulator. Any others? I feel like getting all those items, all the Elixers and all the buffs, just 'cause.

Preferably on Taric. :smalltongue:
I think all the aura items do?

[Fearan]

Well, since I'm here anyway, I'll add myself to the roster. I play on EU Server--Nordic & East by the alias of Fearan23

[9mm]

Then why aren't they played more? I can remember seeing top Urgot in precisely one tournament, and as far as my memory goes, I haven't seen him in a single high elo stream.

because short memories and there is a game beyond laning that needs to be considered (which is his main holdback).

[Silverraptor]

My favorite Urgot moment was a Ult-Flash get-away from a failed team fight.:smallbiggrin:

[PersonMan]

Alright, I've installed mumble and managed to find the server. I'm not sure what the groups are, or whether it's more text or speech based, at this point.

[Morph Bark]

So I just tried my plan again, this time with Shyvana instead of Taric. I had to keep running from lane to lane and kill the bots (Yi, Sivir, Malphite) to prevent them from getting too far. I ended up losing all turrets outside of my base and then pushed back the mid lane until I got their inhib, preventing Sivir from coming back out until it had respawned the second time, because only then would Yi come and help a little against the Super Minion. That was the first time that I could start jungling. I ended up pushing top back as well and while I was killing my family the minions got their other inhibitor. The respawning process went back and forth a while with Super Minions destroying the inhibs again until they finally got the Nexus.

This was right after I had gotten Baron down and taken their red buff. I was so close to taking their blue as well and then going back to get all the aura items, Guardian Angel and Sunfire Cape and all the Elixirs.

In short, Shyvana is too good for my plan.

Also, I still need a name for it.

[Temotei]

So I just tried my plan again, this time with Shyvana instead of Taric. I had to keep running from lane to lane and kill the bots (Yi, Sivir, Malphite) to prevent them from getting too far. I ended up losing all turrets outside of my base and then pushed back the mid lane until I got their inhib, preventing Sivir from coming back out until it had respawned the second time, because only then would Yi come and help a little against the Super Minion. That was the first time that I could start jungling. I ended up pushing top back as well and while I was killing my family the minions got their other inhibitor. The respawning process went back and forth a while with Super Minions destroying the inhibs again until they finally got the Nexus.

This was right after I had gotten Baron down and taken their red buff. I was so close to taking their blue as well and then going back to get all the aura items, Guardian Angel and Sunfire Cape and all the Elixirs.

In short, Shyvana is too good for my plan.

Also, I still need a name for it.

Did you remember Banshee's Veil? I haven't seen it mentioned.

[ArcanistSupreme]

How to play Sona:

Buy wards. Roll face on keyboard. Win.

Seriously though, playing her in normal games just isn't fair to the enemy team. They don't seem to understand that grouping up so I can ult all five of them is bad.

[Math_Mage]

Olaf is strong against Urgot top lane. Sustains like a boss, throws axes like a boss, and doesn't care about Urgot's ult. Admittedly my experience in that matchup was on TT, but I bet it still applies on SR.

Also, I finally broke down and went Bloodthirster-PD on Ashe. Bloodthirster+Zeal > IE for the price IMO.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

How to play Sona:

Buy wards. Roll face on keyboard. Win.


I tend to resent this portrayal of Sona. Proper positioning so Q and W hit the right targets and effective use of Power Chord make Sona a deceptively deep champion.

[Cyborg Mage]

Free champion rotation: Brand, Caitlyn, Xerath.

I am a happy cyborg. Thread traaacking.

[Temotei]

Free champion rotation: Brand, Caitlyn, Xerath.

I am a happy cyborg. Thread traaacking.

Yeah, this is the first time in a very long time that I've had seven free champions. It's too bad I'm not a fan of Brand, Graves, or Xerath.

[Morph Bark]

Did you remember Banshee's Veil? I haven't seen it mentioned.

I didn't remember it, mostly because I actually very rarely build it (only against a Veigar so far really and only if I'm not doing well, and of those rare times I didn't always finish it).

So that makes... lemme list the items:
- All aura items (Stark's, Soul Shroud, Aegis, WotA)
- Banshee's Veil
- Sunfire Cape
- Guardian Angel
- Frozen Heart
- Abyssal Scepter
- Items with aura actives (but only when active; Shurelia's, Randuin's)
- Youmuu's
- Sheen and derivatives (only when active and only on the weapon, so prolly not suited for the plan)
- Elixirs

Hm. 6 aura items, 6 non-aura items (excluding Sheen). Seems to me like I should do this together with someone else. Taric and...

...

...

Okay, whoever feels up to helping me with OPERATION TRULY OUTRAGEOUS, find me a champion who is truly outrageous who isn't Taric.

Skins work just as well.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Okay, whoever feels up to helping me with OPERATION TRULY OUTRAGEOUS, find me a champion who is truly outrageous who isn't Taric.

Jack of Hearts Twisted Fate
Tango Twisted Fate

I feel both of these are very outrageous, if perhaps a little less so than Taric.

[Math_Mage]

Okay, whoever feels up to helping me with OPERATION TRULY OUTRAGEOUS, find me a champion who is truly outrageous who isn't Taric.

Skins work just as well.

Amethyst Ashe.

[Temotei]

Okay, whoever feels up to helping me with OPERATION TRULY OUTRAGEOUS, find me a champion who is truly outrageous who isn't Taric.

Skins work just as well.

Battle Regalia Poppy?

[Mirrinus]

FREE MAOKAI WEEK!

I so happy. Someone who can both solo top and jungle? Definitely a top choice for me to try out.

Also, his saplings are the cutest things ever when tossed.

[dgnslyr]

I like these freeweek champs. Brand is nice, because I've been meaning to play an AP carry, and need to learn someone not Morgana.

[Zen Master]

With Maokai free this week, I'm giving him a spin. He's a lot of fun, but I've no real clue whether to build him tanky, AP, a mix or whatever. Tips?

[Mirrinus]

I build him tanky with sustain and some AP, like I do with most solo top champs. Start with Regrowth Pendant into Philosopher's Stone, boots, Catalyst into Rod of Ages, then Force of Nature and Frozen Heart as fitting for the situation.

I max Sapling Toss first for very easy farming of minions.

[sucatraps]

Sapling Toss means you push super hard and uses up a ton of mana. It doesn't even harass very well, as it so easy to avoid. The only situation I would see it being strong is if you're against a top lane who can't push very hard, like Warwick, and you just push the lane so you can go gank mid. Would work to a point, but I'd still rather put someone else top.

[9mm]

With Maokai free this week, I'm giving him a spin. He's a lot of fun, but I've no real clue whether to build him tanky, AP, a mix or whatever. Tips?

bog standard items for moakai include: RoA, Shurelia's, Aegis, Triforce, FoN, Frozen heart, Sunfire, Abyssal, Derpcap.

Ground smash has a greater dps over time than sapperlings, while lings have greater up front burst (I've heard it has overtaken sivirs BB in the largest nuke in the game) IF THROWN RIGHT.

At level 4 sapperlings clear the mage minions to allow quick and easy pushing/ able to leave lane and gank. He can also jungle relatively well and has an absolutely vicious gank.

if laning just farm farm farm, and in Team fights drop your ult where you feel the fight will take place, then Twisted advance into their back row and burst the carry; keep that ult up unless it'll burst kill someone.

[EternalMelon]

After a funny and amusing conversation I found myself the owner of one Orianna, and have been tasked with becoming the very best, like no one ever was*. Or at least kinda sorta good. So any one have some tips/guides for our second favorite female AI?

* To catch them out of position is my test, to stomp pubbies is my cause!

[Math_Mage]

After a funny and amusing conversation I found myself the owner of one Orianna, and have been tasked with becoming the very best, like no one ever was*. Or at least kinda sorta good. So any one have some tips/guides for our second favorite female AI?

* To catch them out of position is my test, to stomp pubbies is my cause!

Max Q first, W next in easy lanes or E in tough lanes, Doran's Rings --> Deathcap unless you're never gonna get blue buff, GET BLUE BUFF, poke them forever and QRW burst in teamfights.

[Zen Master]

... for our second favorite female AI?

Would I be right in assuming Shodan is our first favourite female AI?!:smallconfused:

[Joran]

Would I be right in assuming Shodan is our first favourite female AI?!:smallconfused:

Probably GLaDoS?

[Morph Bark]

Jack of Hearts Twisted Fate
Tango Twisted Fate

I feel both of these are very outrageous, if perhaps a little less so than Taric.

Amethyst Ashe.

Jack of Hearts ohmygod. For certain. Amethyst Ashe does have the gem theme going on, but Freljord Ashe seems to have it more.


Battle Regalia Poppy?

Having seen your original post, I thought about just doing a club team. Taric is disco clubs. Officer Caitlyn strip clubs. Trundle club clubs. :smalltongue:


Would I be right in assuming Shodan is our first favourite female AI?!:smallconfused:

GLaDOS, I presume.

[Math_Mage]

Jack of Hearts ohmygod. For certain. Amethyst Ashe does have the gem theme going on, but Freljord Ashe seems to have it more.

Wait'll you see Amethyst in game. Vivid. Purple.

There's also Snow Bunny Nidalee.

[Zen Master]

Probably GLaDoS?


GLaDOS, I presume.

Hm. Yes, I agree. But then wouldn't Shodan be the first, GLaDOS second, and Oriana a very respectable third most favourite female AI? Chronologically, if nothing else.


At level 4 sapperlings clear the mage minions to allow quick and easy pushing/ able to leave lane and gank. He can also jungle relatively well and has an absolutely vicious gank.

But the saplings have a bit of utility. And should I go up against someone with range, I'd really hate not to have saplings for farm.

[Morph Bark]

Hm. Yes, I agree. But then wouldn't Shodan be the first, GLaDOS second, and Oriana a very respectable third most favourite female AI? Chronologically, if nothing else.

You're presuming SHODAN is even one of the favourite female AIs EternalMelon alleged to. :smalltongue:


Wait'll you see Amethyst in game. Vivid. Purple.

There's also Snow Bunny Nidalee.

Hm, I admit I once faced an Amethyst Ashe, but I didn't pay attention to her model.

And I thought Snow Bunny Nidalee was no longer available for purchase?

[Zen Master]

You're presuming SHODAN is even one of the favourite female AIs EternalMelon alleged to. :smalltongue:

Well - the same could be said about GLaDOS, right? Or Mother, aboard the Nostromo, I guess. Isn't it called Mother?

[efdf]

With Maokai free this week, I'm giving him a spin. He's a lot of fun, but I've no real clue whether to build him tanky, AP, a mix or whatever. Tips?

If you're jungling, pretty much go support tank (Aegis, Frozen Heart, Abyssal Scepter) after Shurelia's Reverie (pretty much the best item ever on Maokai) Start with a regrowth pendant.

If you lane, go mid, your goal is to kill the enemy mid over and over. Or if you're premade you can go bot with an AP who has a strong ability that relies on the enemy standing still (Brand, Anivia) and combo off that. If you're successful at killing the enemy mid enough that you're way ahead go AP/tanky (RoA, Merc's, Hourglass (I really like Hourglass on Maokai)) but if you fail you really have to go assassin maokai (DFG, Deathcap, Lichbane, Sorc's) and sac your life for someone important

Probably should start with boots or sapphire crystal or even Dring, he's one of the few that can do a Dring start. if you start sapphire rush catalyst, it's really strong

[Morph Bark]

Well - the same could be said about GLaDOS, right? Or Mother, aboard the Nostromo, I guess. Isn't it called Mother?

Yes, but what I mean is that, if Orianna is the second and GLaDOS would be one of them as well, SHODAN wouldn't be one of them. Catch my drift?

[EternalMelon]

Would I be right in assuming Shodan is our first favourite female AI?!:smallconfused:
Genetic Lifeform and Disk Operating System is the first, I have never heard of Shodan, sorry.

Probably GLaDoS?
GLaDOS is my (and I presumed, untill proven otherwise, everyone's) favorite Female AI (wanna guess my favorite Male?)

Hm. Yes, I agree. But then wouldn't Shodan be the first, GLaDOS second, and Oriana a very respectable third most favourite female AI? Chronologically, if nothing else.

Hmmm, we might have to debate this, ahem.

EVERYONE! Who is your favorite Female AI?

You're presuming SHODAN is even one of the favourite female AIs EternalMelon alleged to. :smalltongue:
Never played System Shock before, sorry.

Well - the same could be said about GLaDOS, right?EVERYONE KNOWS OF GLaDOS! :smalleek:

Or Mother, aboard the Nostromo, I guess. Isn't it called Mother?

Mother reminds me of Gygas*, not an AI
*My favorite Eldrich Abomination, coincidentally.

[Morph Bark]

That depends on if we use the gender or sex definition of female. Only in the former case shall I acknowledge that my favourite is the sweet overlady of the Aperture Science labs.

I have never played System Shock (or the sequel) myself either. That part was directed at Acromos, since he appeared to presume SHODAN was even part of the equation.

From what I know of her though, I wouldn't want to see her befriend GLaDOS with me anywhere nearby. :smalleek:

[Lix Lorn]

GLADOS is best AI

[toasty]

That depends on if we use the gender or sex definition of female. Only in the former case shall I acknowledge that my favourite is the sweet overlady of the Aperture Science labs.

I have never played System Shock (or the sequel) myself either. That part was directed at Acromos, since he appeared to presume SHODAN was even part of the equation.

From what I know of her though, I wouldn't want to see her befriend GLaDOS with me anywhere nearby. :smalleek:

I think in a game with monsters, animated trees, and robots, its fair to say that whether or not the creature has sexual organs is a poor way to determine male or femaleness. :smalltongue:

[EternalMelon]

That depends on if we use the gender or sex definition of female. Only in the former case shall I acknowledge that my favourite is the sweet overlady of the Aperture Science labs.

I have never played System Shock (or the sequel) myself either. That part was directed at Acromos, since he appeared to presume SHODAN was even part of the equation.

From what I know of her though, I wouldn't want to see her befriend GLaDOS with me anywhere nearby. :smalleek:
Alright, my mistake, I'll fill in the defenition better:
A Female AI is an AI with a voice actress/implied voice of a female, or is referenced as a girl in any other way. IE: Wheatley referring to GLaDOS as "her", and Ellen McLain as GLaDOS's voice actress.

[ArcanistSupreme]

I tend to resent this portrayal of Sona. Proper positioning so Q and W hit the right targets and effective use of Power Chord make Sona a deceptively deep champion.

Oh, that comment was definitely a gross exaggeration. But in a game where bot lane feeds me and Kog'maw hard and then every team fight results in me hitting at least four of them with my ult, that's what I felt like.

Though to be fair to Sona, it was largely my proper positioning in lane phase that resulted in the feeding. :smallwink:

[Madmal]

Allright, 2nd game, went much better now:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g15/Omniprowl/Amumu2.jpg

I did had a better team though, and their Teemo had slow reactions.
Also, my largest Killing Spree so far :p

[Temotei]

Hey, Dog, how do you build Teemo?

[Tesla_pasta]

Okay, third game with nocturne, not counting practice custom bot game.
I'd like to feel out some builds, but in the first game we got anhilated, so I couldn't earn enough gold. in the other two, the enemy team surrendered before i could get my full build going. I've been laning in TT, start vamp scepter, then grab Zerk graves and Wriggles. For tankyness I get a Banshee, then Black Cleaver for more damage. I suppose for the last item, I could grab frost mallet or IE. Never gotten past the Banshee, though, the games always are over by then... Is this a solid build? I love his kit, so im gonna grab him once free week is over

[Terribad]

Go with the AP blues for Cass, CDR doesn't do a whole lot for her.

But most important of all, your skilling priority is wrong. Q and W are pretty much only for applying poison and E is her primary source of damage, so it must be focused. Q>W>E>E>E>R or Q>E>W>E>E>E>R ( and then R>E>Q=W) are the usual skilling options.

Focus her E? Really? I thought Q was the main reason why her laning phase is so strong: harass + farm with Q when enemy mid stands too near her ranged minions.

How about itemization? Is rushing RoA good for her?

[Shadowleaf]

Okay, third game with nocturne, not counting practice custom bot game.
I'd like to feel out some builds, but in the first game we got anhilated, so I couldn't earn enough gold. in the other two, the enemy team surrendered before i could get my full build going. I've been laning in TT, start vamp scepter, then grab Zerk graves and Wriggles. For tankyness I get a Banshee, then Black Cleaver for more damage. I suppose for the last item, I could grab frost mallet or IE. Never gotten past the Banshee, though, the games always are over by then... Is this a solid build? I love his kit, so im gonna grab him once free week is overGenerally you want to grab a lot more tankiness a lot sooner. I usually begin building Frozen Mallet after Wriggle's and Boots. Given the shorter game time of TT, don't bother with the Warmog's - get a Frozen Mallet, Atma's and Banshee's Veil, and then whatever you need as your sixth item. If the game goes on for a while, consider replacing Wriggle's with Warmog's.

Also, I strongly suggest you play as the roamer/jungler instead of lanng.

[Lifeson]

This is sort of a stupid question, but what can I do in the event I get landed with a massive, lasting lag spike? Lately, I've taken to dunking, but that only works if I'm playing Twisted Fate.

[Draken]

Focus her E? Really? I thought Q was the main reason why her laning phase is so strong: harass + farm with Q when enemy mid stands too near her ranged minions.

How about itemization? Is rushing RoA good for her?

Few details.

1- AoE farming is fun but generally not a good idea early on. Cassiopeia's attack is not particularly bd to last hit with, so that should be used (heck, it is much easier than last hitting with a dot at any rate).

2- Cassiopeia's actual harassment strenght is not Q and forget, it is Q (or W) followed by 2-4 Es. E is the primary source of her impressive dps.

3- Someone will disagree, everybody has their own ideas of what is best to rush on any particular mage, but I always like t o start with a RoA.

[Eldariel]

GLaDOS is my (and I presumed, untill proven otherwise, everyone's) favorite Female AI (wanna guess my favorite Male?)

Pause life. Acquire System Shock & System Shock 2 right now. Play.

[dgnslyr]

I'd say a RoA is a strong first big item on pretty much all AP carries who use mana. I can't think of any other similarly priced item that should be rushed with the same sort of urgency as a RoA on a mana-using caster.

[TechnOkami]

So... I just went 16/3/4 as Graves. (in a bot game)

The significance of this: I suck at farming. I am such a poor and terrible farmer that any hope I have of playing champions like Graves or other AD champions/ any other champion who is desperately farm dependent is all but nullified. Even in bot games I cannot play them at all.I love my gold per 5 runes, because now I can enjoy other champions League of Legends has to offer.

That is all.

[Eldariel]

I'd say a RoA is a strong first big item on pretty much all AP carries who use mana. I can't think of any other similarly priced item that should be rushed with the same sort of urgency as a RoA on a mana-using caster.

Depends on the champion. More precisely, RoA should be treated as a mana item. If you need the extra mana and health, it's a great item. As health is always useful, it comes down to the value of mana. If you play a champion who needs more mana, RoA first makes a great deal of sense.

Other big first items are Deathcap and Will of the Ancients. Few others make sense; Tear should of course be built first if using it but that's rarely enough worth it.

[Terribad]

Wow ok thanks Draken, I'll try out maxing E first!


I'd say a RoA is a strong first big item on pretty much all AP carries who use mana. I can't think of any other similarly priced item that should be rushed with the same sort of urgency as a RoA on a mana-using caster.

Depends really. I personally feel burst casters with CC (like Annie, Brand, Lux) do better rushing a Deathcap first while sustained damage casters (Morgana, Cass, Ahri?) benefit more from RoA for the extra survivability and lane sustain. Morgana even more so as she has pretty high base HP values for a mage

[Shadowleaf]

Wow ok thanks Draken, I'll try out maxing E first!



Depends really. I personally feel burst casters with CC (like Annie, Brand, Lux) do better rushing a Deathcap first while sustained damage casters (Morgana, Cass, Ahri?) benefit more from RoA for the extra survivability and lane sustain. Morgana even more so as she has pretty high base HP values for a mageWow, really? I always build a RoA early on Annie and Brand because of their mana troubles.

[Dogmantra]

Hey, Dog, how do you build Teemo?

Well the first thing's first, you need to open the game by saying something related to the skin you're using. When I'm using Cottontail Teemo, I like to say "I'm late, I'm late, for a very important date!", Astronaut Teemo is "One small hop for Yordle, one giant bounce for Yordlekind." and Super Teemo is "For justice, and the Bandle City way!" This is important because how else are you going to drill it into your opponent that you have not only got multiple Teemo skins, but you spend time thinking about them?

Anyway, now that's out of the way you probably want to start yourself off with Cloth Armour + 5 health potions. I know what you're thinking, and boots just isn't an important start on Teemo. Move Quick + Move Quints + Quickness in Utility is actually more than enough speed until you've finished your entire Wriggle's Lantern (which incidentally is your first item). After that, I like to pick up my boots 2 (I have a soft spot for Moots of Bobility on Teemo, but they're really unnecessary, you can grab Sorc Shoes for offense, Treads/Tabi for defense, Stompers if you really want to, though I'd recommend against Zerkers because a] they're ugly and b] you get tons of attack speed from the rest of the build). You can actually "pull a Janna" and not bother with boots 2 for a while if you want and go straight into your Wit's End. I cannot stress how absurdly good Wit's End is. Get one. Get a Wit's End. After that I like Phage.

So basically, your core is three megacheap, really good items, Wriggle's, Wit's End and Phage. After that you can either (in order of priority):
1. Start work on Madred's Bloodrazor
2. Finish off Frozen Mallet
3. Defenses. With a Mallet, I like to get Force of Nature or Atma's, and with being Teemo I like to get a Guardian Angel. For more offensive MR, both Abyssal Sceptre and Hexdrinker work.
4. Build a Malady, it's silly and niche, but it's a cheap way of increasing your damage output
5. Build something which'll give you way more damage, Infinity Edge, Bloodthirster or maybe Black Cleaver.

Sometimes if it gets to really late on and I've finished my build, I'll sell the Wriggle's for a Bloodthirster, just for more sustain.

On Dominion, it's basically Boots + Pickaxe to start, going into Kitae's Bloodrazor, Wit's End, with an Entropy or Mallet depending on what you need.

The runes I use are attack speed marks and seals, with CDR glyphs and movespeed quints. I also pick up 21 in offense (though I avoid things that aren't going to be particularly useful for an onhit mostly magic damage build, like the armour pen and extra crit damage) with 9 in utility.

[Morph Bark]

I think in a game with monsters, animated trees, and robots, its fair to say that whether or not the creature has sexual organs is a poor way to determine male or femaleness. :smalltongue:

Alright, my mistake, I'll fill in the defenition better:
A Female AI is an AI with a voice actress/implied voice of a female, or is referenced as a girl in any other way. IE: Wheatley referring to GLaDOS as "her", and Ellen McLain as GLaDOS's voice actress.

...do either of you know the difference in definition between gender and sex?

[Zen Master]

Yes, but what I mean is that, if Orianna is the second and GLaDOS would be one of them as well, SHODAN wouldn't be one of them. Catch my drift?

Not at all, no. As long as everyone is guessing (or was, as the case is now) any guess is as valid as any other.

[Temotei]

*Badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger MUSHROOM MUSHROOM!*

Thanks very much. Some games, I feel like being extra cute with someone other than Kennen.


...do either of you know the difference in definition between gender and sex?

Stupid sociology class taught me the difference. Sex is biological. Gender is an identity of sorts. It's a little more complicated, but whatever.

[Qaera]

I always start blitz games with "beep boop good luck/have fun beep boop" and whenever I take a structure I say "beep boop screw the turret".

~ ♅

[Math_Mage]

Wow, really? I always build a RoA early on Annie and Brand because of their mana troubles.

>Annie
>free Q on a 4 second cooldown
>mana troubles

:smallconfused:

[Terribad]

Wow, really? I always build a RoA early on Annie and Brand because of their mana troubles.

Eh? Annie has mana troubles? Pre-six I just concentrate on farming with Q, only harass if enemy mid does something stupid as her cast range is so short. Save enough mana just before you hit Lv 6 so you can do your combo.

The thing about burst casters is that you are not trying to whittle them down by spamming spells, unlike say Galio. You should have the ability to faceroll them from full to 0 with 1 combo.

[Moonshadow]

Hey guys. Garen's Judgement skill says that it gains bonus damage based on his critical strike chance? This means if you have crit, it should do more damage, right?

Or is this simply a case of erroneous tooltips?

[Dogmantra]

The thing about burst casters is that you are not trying to whittle them down by spamming spells, unlike say Galio. You should have the ability to faceroll them from full to 0 with 1 combo.

Except Galio is also a burst caster ;)

[Terribad]

Hey guys. Garen's Judgement skill says that it gains bonus damage based on his critical strike chance? This means if you have crit, it should do more damage, right?

Or is this simply a case of erroneous tooltips?

Mmm just not worded clearly I think. Judgment's damage can critically strike, but I think only the bonus damage from AD is multiplied.

[Talesin]

Allright, 2nd game, went much better now:
Awesome Amumu Game

I did had a better team though, and their Teemo had slow reactions.
Also, my largest Killing Spree so far :p

How did you find your survivability in this game? I notice you've built Death cap and RoA, items I don't tend to build on Amumu unless i'm playing AP amumu on something like ARAM. I can still see that you'd be pretty damn tanky with high resistances and health from the items but do you feel it was enough? I frequently find with Amumu builds that i'm basically unkillable and its frequently too much when I could be doing more damage or having more CDR.

[Moonshadow]

Mmm just not worded clearly I think. Judgment's damage can critically strike, but I think only the bonus damage from AD is multiplied.

Awww. This makes my Crit Garen build less fun then ._. Oh well, still works though.

[Shadowleaf]

Eh? Annie has mana troubles? Pre-six I just concentrate on farming with Q, only harass if enemy mid does something stupid as her cast range is so short. Save enough mana just before you hit Lv 6 so you can do your combo.

The thing about burst casters is that you are not trying to whittle them down by spamming spells, unlike say Galio. You should have the ability to faceroll them from full to 0 with 1 combo.Guess we have very different playstyles. I always play super offensive as AP mid, pretty much no matter which champion I'm playing. I usually go for a super early (level 3-5) first blood kill with flash+ignite. This I mainly do by spamming my lowest CD spell on the opponent until they're below half health. I usually have a crazy high early game CS lead with champions like Annie or Brand, since I use their AoE spells to farm with. Doing these two things cost a large amount of mana, so I almost always rush a Catalyst. The extra early money from the kill is spent on wards, so I can comfortably push my lane. It's been a good while since I've not won my lane mid.

The last time I lost my lane mid was as Ryze versus a Cassio. She had a Twitch jungler pretty much camping my lane from the 3 minute mark to the 10 minute mark, while I had a Lee Sin jungler who thought "Cassio is OP, so I don't gank" (his words). She got an early blue buff and proceeded to just take me out from under the tower with Twin Fang.

[Cyborg Mage]

Okay, so. Just played Caitlyn on a normal matchmade game. Things went pretty okay, I guess. Laned with Kayle against Brand/Nocturne. Brand was pretty good at harassing me with his w for a while, but Nocturne was rather unintimidating. For a start, he was laning instead of jungling, made no effort to gank anyone, and had a talent for hitting me with his Q only to realize that I had run back to the tower, while I managed to harass him with my Q and the occasional headshot. Kayle and I get some kills, bottom lane goes pretty fine and dandy, Kayle DCs, Nocturne tries to 1v1 me, I kill him and provoke a ragequit. Their Amumu also ragequits at some point in the match, so you would think a 3v4 with a fed AD carry on the other team would be pretty much over, right?

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/4303/maokaie.jpg
Wrong.

Dat Maokai. I'm not sure if I really noticed how he got to where he did, but when he got to about 9 kills or so, it was hard to not notice. He had blue almost continuously. He had mastered use of his W to pick off squishier champs and his E to snipe anyone with the sense to flee. Before we surrendered, it could take the entire combined force of our team to bring him CLOSE to death. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to deal with this sort of thing in the future?

Alternate caption: :durkon:: "THA TREES!"

[Talesin]

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to deal with this sort of thing in the future?


Well given he had frozen heart and sunfire cape, on top of being maokai, he would have enough armour to more or less negate your damage, in addition to your team mates being 2 other AD carries. Plus the attack speed slow from frozen heart losing you 20% attack speed each making him even more duarable. And his ult is just going to add to the fun.

Characters with that level of farm are always going to cause problems just due to the sheer amount of gold they have. I would say the only thing you could reasonably do was build some armour pen, maybe a starks to sort've 'negate' the frozen heart attack speed slow.

Though hindsight is hindsight really. Can't say that if I was in your situation I would've followed my own advice. Countering characters/builds is one thing I definitely need to work on.

[Morph Bark]

Having multiple AD carries is not so bad. Having multiple AD carries that depend on their auto-attacks for damage is. You're lucky he didn't have Thornmail or Randuin's.

Though if you hadn't surrendered, 5v3 would be easily winnable through pushing ALL the lanes. Wouldn't feel as great winning that though.

[Madmal]

How did you find your survivability in this game? I notice you've built Death cap and RoA, items I don't tend to build on Amumu unless i'm playing AP amumu on something like ARAM. I can still see that you'd be pretty damn tanky with high resistances and health from the items but do you feel it was enough? I frequently find with Amumu builds that i'm basically unkillable and its frequently too much when I could be doing more damage or having more CDR.

Well, i was a bit nervous at first since i was behind on the path the guide described, despite trying to follow it as much as i could remember. Thankfully, Ahri was able to handle solo top, and i finished my early jungling phase with a bandage gank on Twitch, and then an assist kill on Teemo. I guess that was a nice blow to their moral, 'cause one of them typed "gg", as we managed to take half of the tower.

But yeah, my Amumu wasn't an unkillable monster (it did had around 33xx hp at the end of the game, though). I focused more on cc and disrupting enemy tactics while the others dived for a kill. Almost half of those death are the consequences of me missing my bandage toss or my ult. Garen was the toughest one on the enemy team. Teemo had been blamed for feeding and Twitch keep getting 3v1 ganked and qqing about it. Maybe it was because they eventually learned to focus me first, i was the second to loose Baron buff, but that was mostly because Ashe got killed about a micro second ago from us finishing.

Also, i think i bandaged Nocturne in the middle of his ult. That probably hurt his pride a bit :P

[Talesin]

But yeah, my Amumu wasn't an unkillable monster (it did had around 33xx hp at the end of the game, though).

Might give this build a try. I usually don't get many/any AP items so it might be nice to have some more damage. Especially given the AP ratio on dat ult and the cdr from shureyla's.

Can't remember what I tend to build off the top of my head but its something along the lines of philo stone, heart of gold, merc treads. Progressing into Randuins, Frozen Heart, FoN, Aegis (in the order I want them based on enemy team comp) and by that point the game is usually over. I guess the early AP would help especially while ganking.

I did try a Rylais after philo stone at one point and could get some good ganks off it, but overall the cost of the individual items and the lack of sustain meant I could quite easily spend large periods of time going back and not picking up items that weren't more health potions to try and stop the problem for occuring

[Winthur]

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/4303/maokaie.jpg
Wrong.

Alternate caption: :durkon:: "THA TREES!"

-Ashe's build is idiotic (where do they get the idea to rush a PD when you are not Vayne? I see that all the time at low ELO or low level normals.)
-Your Maokai's build is also idiotic
-You aren't building any attack speed (Phantom Dancer after Bloodthirster) or a Last Whisper, instead getting an Infinity Edge which at this point is subpar (you should have honestly gotten it as a first big item)
-You don't have enough farm especially in a lane with a mage and an AD carry - having a Bloodthirster and some spare parts for an Infinity Edge barely counts as "fed".
-You could've won if this got to late game because they had no AD carry. Alas, you did not.
-It's a low level game so you can't use Flash, but IMHO you are better off with a Heal or an Exhaust when you're Caitlyn instead of that Ignite.

You probably just played against a smurf and your team had no experience. Stuff happens.

[Moonshadow]

Okay, so just to clarify, does anyone know how +crit chance interacts with Garen's Judgement? Just looking for a definitive answer, that's all.

[Reynard]

Okay, so just to clarify, does anyone know how +crit chance interacts with Garen's Judgement? Just looking for a definitive answer, that's all.

I dunno what exactly you mean. It just... gives each tick of damage a chance to crit.

EDIT: Oh, I see, should've checked to see if the thread had just jumped me to the end of the thread or the first new post.

I think the base damage is included in the crit as well, but I'm not sure. I'll do a custom game to find out.

Edit the second: Well, that's a bummer. It is only the damage from bonus AD that gets multiplied.

[PersonMan]

First 3 ranked games.

First game, our Morde is DCing every few minutes. Loss.

Second game, their Vlad is intentionally feeding. Win.

Third game, their Veigar DCs after about 5 minutes. Win.

I think I'm going back to normal games. They're at least real games...

[EternalMelon]

Pause life. Acquire System Shock & System Shock 2 right now. Play.
That would mean I have a life. :smallbiggrin:

I'll see what I can do, three weeks until my life does start up again anyway.

...do either of you know the difference in definition between gender and sex?
No, and I regularly forget theirs a difference, sorry. :smallfrown:
No need to be condescending.

[Temotei]

First 3 ranked games.

First game, our Morde is DCing every few minutes. Loss.

Second game, their Vlad is intentionally feeding. Win.

Third game, their Veigar DCs after about 5 minutes. Win.

I think I'm going back to normal games. They're at least real games...

That's funny, because my ranked experience is the opposite. In the fourth match, my friend and I beat The Average Gatsby, which made him happy.

[Mutant Bunny]

Hm. 6 aura items, 6 non-aura items (excluding Sheen). Seems to me like I should do this together with someone else. Taric and...

...

...

Okay, whoever feels up to helping me with OPERATION TRULY OUTRAGEOUS, find me a champion who is truly outrageous who isn't Taric.

Skins work just as well.

Mundo very fabulous!

[Dallas-Dakota]

I personally think Leprachaun Veigar is TRULY OUTRAGEOUS and will accept any duels if people who would care or even dare to disagree.:smallbiggrin:

[Mutant Bunny]

I personally think Leprachaun Veigar is TRULY OUTRAGEOUS and will accept any duels if people who would care or even dare to disagree.:smallbiggrin:

He's evil. Stop laughing! :smallfurious:

[Dallas-Dakota]

I think you misunderstand, he's outrageously evil!

[toasty]

First 3 ranked games.

First game, our Morde is DCing every few minutes. Loss.

Second game, their Vlad is intentionally feeding. Win.

Third game, their Veigar DCs after about 5 minutes. Win.

I think I'm going back to normal games. They're at least real games...

Ranked games can be rather dumb, yes. Two nights ago I had one of those "Imma fed, FU" players who basically said in chat they were gonna throw the game. But I've also had very nice and helpful players. I also got to play with V8 Hexo, who handles the finances for V8 Esports. His Soraka beat me. :smallsigh:

[Istari]

Portal 2 Spoilers
I would argue that GLaDOS is female in terms of both gender and sex, since she is basically just a human in a robot body.

[Winthur]

Portal 2 Spoilers
I would argue that GLaDOS is female in terms of both gender and sex, since she is basically just a human in a robot body.

http://d37nnnqwv9amwr.cloudfront.net/entries/icons/original/000/007/666/_57c8a1a431a592af806925e57258202f.png

LOL I TRAPPED YET ANOTHER POST, YOU CAN'T REMOVE IT NOW

[EternalMelon]

Portal 2 Spoilers
I would argue that GLaDOS is female in terms of both gender and sex, since she is basically just a human in a robot body.

Ahh, but C-C-C-C-Caroline's body is dead, her conscious lives on withing the programming GLaDOS has, thereby not having the necessary organs.*

[Moonshadow]

I dunno what exactly you mean. It just... gives each tick of damage a chance to crit.

EDIT: Oh, I see, should've checked to see if the thread had just jumped me to the end of the thread or the first new post.

I think the base damage is included in the crit as well, but I'm not sure. I'll do a custom game to find out.

Edit the second: Well, that's a bummer. It is only the damage from bonus AD that gets multiplied.

So.... does that mean you'd need bonus AD = to your base AD in order to get the biggest benefit out of building crit? Or does Judgement do normal AD damage + extra damage based on if you crit?

[Daverin]

So.... does that mean you'd need bonus AD = to your base AD in order to get the biggest benefit out of building crit? Or does Judgement do normal AD damage + extra damage based on if you crit?

According to the wiki it = crit of bonus damage + base damage after that is calculated.

[Moonshadow]

According to the wiki it = crit of bonus damage + base damage after that is calculated.

Okay... so if my math is correct (which it probably isn't because I'm sick), that means that without an Infinity Edge, you'd need half your base AD in order to do double effective damage on a critical hit with Judgement then.

But it wouldn't actually show as a crit, would it?

[Daverin]

Okay... so if my math is correct (which it probably isn't because I'm sick), that means that without an Infinity Edge, you'd need half your base AD in order to do double effective damage on a critical hit with Judgement then.

But it wouldn't actually show as a crit, would it?

Actually, you may have noticed a little sword show up above the opponent duiring judgment, kind of a mini-Justice blade. That indicates a crit. I believe numbers are there as well, but I rarely pay attention to those.

[Morph Bark]

I hate Vayne so much. There is no way to defend yourself against percentual true damage. Unless maybe if you're Mundo with 6 fully stacked Warmogs and regen faster than she can shoot it off you.

[Reynard]

So.... does that mean you'd need bonus AD = to your base AD in order to get the biggest benefit out of building crit? Or does Judgement do normal AD damage + extra damage based on if you crit?

Don't forget that Judgement's base damage at 5 is 210, and that the ratio is 1.4 of bonus. Since your base AD is quite a bit below 210, a Judgement crit is pretty close to an autoattack crit. Actually (looks up Garen's base stats)

Judgement crit:
210+2.8 of Bonus AD per second.

Auto attack crit:
218+2.0 of Bonus AD per attack.

Judgement crit is almost always better if you have any decent amount of AD, though it evenually gets worse if you have quite a bit more attack speed than Garen usually builds. I think the only attack speed I get on him is the active from Ghostblade if I ever both to complete it.

[Silverraptor]

I hate Vayne so much. There is no way to defend yourself against percentual true damage. Unless maybe if you're Mundo with 6 fully stacked Warmogs and regen faster than she can shoot it off you.

Lowering her attack speed and increasing your heath regen seem to be the best way of stopping her.

[Moonshadow]

Actually, you may have noticed a little sword show up above the opponent duiring judgment, kind of a mini-Justice blade. That indicates a crit. I believe numbers are there as well, but I rarely pay attention to those.

Oh, cool. I didn't know that >_>;


Don't forget that Judgement's base damage at 5 is 210, and that the ratio is 1.4 of bonus. Since your base AD is quite a bit below 210, a Judgement crit is pretty close to an autoattack crit. Actually (looks up Garen's base stats)

Judgement crit:
210+2.8 of Bonus AD per second.

Auto attack crit:
218+2.0 of Bonus AD per attack.

Judgement crit is almost always better if you have any decent amount of AD, though it evenually gets worse if you have quite a bit more attack speed than Garen usually builds. I think the only attack speed I get on him is the active from Ghostblade if I ever both to complete it.

Hrmmm. Well, considering you can't really itemise for both AD and Crit at the same time... I'm not sure. I guess I'll have to try out Crit Garen more often.

Is it worth getting dual penetration runes for him, considering his ult, or not really?

[ex cathedra]

I hate Vayne so much. There is no way to defend yourself against percentual true damage. Unless maybe if you're Mundo with 6 fully stacked Warmogs and regen faster than she can shoot it off you.

The vast majority of her damage is still physical, and Frozen Heart/Randuin's are good preventative measures.

[Mutant Bunny]

Hrmmm. Well, considering you can't really itemise for both AD and Crit at the same time... I'm not sure. I guess I'll have to try out Crit Garen more often.

Any combination of Infinity Edge, Ghostblade, and Atma's Impaler. Last Whisper may be a good item late-game.

[Moonshadow]

I thought Randuin's on hit was bugged. Also, it really doesn't matter if you have 200 armor and the frozen heart aura, she's generally got enough Aspd that she can beat your face in anyways.

[Laudandus]

Focus her E? Really? I thought Q was the main reason why her laning phase is so strong: harass + farm with Q when enemy mid stands too near her ranged minions.

How about itemization? Is rushing RoA good for her?

The standard build on cassiopeia is either 2 drings or 3 drings to deathcap, followed by standard AP stuff (void staff for mpen, zhonya's for armor, or rylai's for hp). You should go RoA if you need burst protection for some reason (Talon, annie, veigar, and leblanc would be good reasons :P)

Q max first is almost always better than E in mid lane - your opponent has a lot of range, and it's safer and more mana efficient to poke them with Q. You can also push with Q, and pushing is so necessary midlane I don't think you can afford to max E first even if E were better for harassment. In toplane is a different story - a bulky melee will generally jump on you, so you'll just want to do maximum sustained dps, which means E max first. If you see an AP top, it's probably better to use Q, though that's your call because pushing top can sometimes be a bad idea because of ganks.

Cassiopeia's really hard to use outside of laning phase, because you have to position like an AD carry sometimes and position to R their whole team other times. Good luck - I gave up on her in favor of Ahri because Ahri can blink, but Cass is an extremely strong mid whose only real counter is kassadin.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

How do I convince my friends that Aegis of the Legion really is a good item? And at what point in a Jungle Maokai run should I try and put one together?

(Any tips of Jungle Maokai are appreciated, like Sheen into Triforce and when you want it, if you want it, and the appropriate ratio of AP to Unkillability.)

[toasty]

I hate Vayne so much. There is no way to defend yourself against percentual true damage. Unless maybe if you're Mundo with 6 fully stacked Warmogs and regen faster than she can shoot it off you.

The math on this had been done to death but, honestly, her true damage isn't high enough to warrant the QQing it gets. Vayne is OP because of her Kit, not because of her W. She is both an assassin and a AD carry at the same time, and this makes her very hard to defend against when caught in the open. She also has some of the highest AD scaling in the game (the highest? I dunno) which makes her very difficult to defend against late game. Heroes like Caitlyn can try to shut her down in lane, but, honestly, if Vayne does things right, even after getting harassed out the ass, she'll probably sustain and just farm. Late game she wrecks Caitlyn 9/10 times.

Having said all that: armor. Build armor. Armor and Attack Speed reduction items. She's vayne. if you hate her, ban her. If you can't ban her, well, play draft mode. :smalltongue:

[Mutant Bunny]

I thought Randuin's on hit was bugged. Also, it really doesn't matter if you have 200 armor and the frozen heart aura, she's generally got enough Aspd that she can beat your face in anyways.

That's why you don't try to solo the enemy carry: you hold them still for YOUR carry to kill or your AP carry to burst down.

[Moonshadow]

That's why you don't try to solo the enemy carry: you hold them still for YOUR carry to kill or your AP carry to burst down.

Well, you try :smalltongue:


Also bawwww, every Dominion match I've played today has had someone who has failed to load and never comes back, leaving us trying to 4v5 against obnoxious Trynd/Yi teams.

It makes me unhappy.

[Mtg_player_zach]

How do I convince my friends that Aegis of the Legion really is a good item? And at what point in a Jungle Maokai run should I try and put one together?

(Any tips of Jungle Maokai are appreciated, like Sheen into Triforce and when you want it, if you want it, and the appropriate ratio of AP to Unkillability.)

Don't need AP. Frozen heart, Negatron cloak and Reverie is your core. If you need damage you build a tri-force. But it's not worth rushing.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Don't need AP. Frozen heart, Negatron cloak and Reverie is your core. If you need damage you build a tri-force. But it's not worth rushing.

Aegis would be considered extra? Cloak into BVeil, I'd expect.

EQQW, proceed to max Q, then W, then E?

[toasty]

Aegis would be considered extra? Cloak into BVeil, I'd expect.

EQQW, proceed to max Q, then W, then E?

Cloak into FoN. FoN > everything in terms of MR these days. Especially on Tanks.

Bveil has been nerfed a lot and unless you get Cata early, its generally not worth it. FoN or QQS is better right now.

[Daverin]

Cloak into FoN. FoN > everything in terms of MR these days. Especially on Tanks.

Bveil has been nerfed a lot and unless you get Cata early, its generally not worth it. FoN or QQS is better right now.

I would at least say QSS over FoN if you are ranged, since it is cheaper and it is as much the cc as the magic damage that is worrying you. I would say BV could still find use in this instance, but QSS is just too much more reliable at the cc negation, and is quite a bit cheaper.

[Mirrinus]

I find myself building Thornmail pretty often in Dominion just because of how common AD champs are there. Yesterday, I played against an enemy team of Graves, Master Yi, Vayne, Gangplank, and Xin Zhao. Most of my team builds Thornmails halfway through the game, and it wasn't even close after that.

Just had a very interesting game of Dominion. My team had a fairly decent lead at the halfway point, but then one of our members DC's. We end up 4v5 and struggle to maintain our lead. At one point, it looked like we would win, but then the enemy neutralized a point when their nexus was literally at ONE (1) health. They held three points for a while longer as our lead dwindled, but then our Akali and Sion successfully defended the Windmill when outnumbered while Skarner and myself won at Boneyard and recaptured it, finally ending the game.

Ironically, our 5th member reconnected 5 seconds before the game ended, when Skarner and I were already channeling to capture the Boneyard.

[Math_Mage]

How do I convince my friends that Aegis of the Legion really is a good item? And at what point in a Jungle Maokai run should I try and put one together?

(Any tips of Jungle Maokai are appreciated, like Sheen into Triforce and when you want it, if you want it, and the appropriate ratio of AP to Unkillability.)

You point out that Aegis has gold-efficient defenses compared to other defensive items. Then you point out that it also has a teamfight-winning aura.

Build lots of tankiness on Maokai.

[Eldariel]

The math on this had been done to death but, honestly, her true damage isn't high enough to warrant the QQing it gets. Vayne is OP...

Are we at that point again? *sigh* Can't we just go one month back and complain about Caitlyn and Graves instead? That would be very refreshing...

[Daverin]

I'm surprised it ever abated. People generally don't like assassins because they generally snowball incredibly hard and by killing one priority target can generally open the floodgate for killing others. Vayne has sufficient burst and mobility to be an assassin.

Except she is not satisfied, because all evil must be righteously purged. Therefore, she also decided she'd like to build and play like a ranged carry whenever she cannot/should not assassinate, and so while one target is bursted down, the rest are also all killed over the course of the battle. By the same champion.

No, I don't think she is OP, but she is considered by many to be one of the select few DotA level hard carries. Who happens to also play the role that can snowball the quickest and hardest. While also being an amazing duelist and a good farmer and a safe/dangerous laner. And having one of the most spammable dashes in the game. And, of course, she can do more with enough time than anyone else to ignore any defenses whatsoever, even if that is not really what is truly good about her. Of course she is going to get grief for having all of that on her resume.

[Math_Mage]

Are we at that point again? *sigh* Can't we just go one month back and complain about Caitlyn and Graves instead? That would be very refreshing...

FWIW, I'm still in the "complaining about Graves" bandwagon. :smalltongue:
-Tankier than any other AD carry except Urgot
-Steroid among the best (Trist, Vayne compare; Kog's is probably better)
-Mobility among the best (not as far as Trist/Corki/Ez, but still walljumps; Vayne has invis-dash and ult, but no jump)
-Best burst among AD carries (MF/Trist compare, but MF is DoT and Trist is single-target with AP scaling)
-CC better than average (beats MF/Trist/Twitch, just about ties Vayne, less than Urgot/Ashe)

The only area where he is deficient is range, where he loses to most AD carries in practice.

It's worth noting, however, that Vayne is in just about the same place in most of those categories, except she trades AOE and tankiness for single-target assassination capability and anti-tank damage.

Basically, my preferred banlist in 1400s Elo is:
-Shaco
-Rammus
-Graves
-Vayne
-Kassadin
-*6th slot to be determined*

Main candidates for slot 6:
-Ahri
-Akali
-Cassiopeia
-Lee Sin
-Fizz
-Sion
-Skarner
-Yorick

[Mtg_player_zach]

Aegis would be considered extra? Cloak into BVeil, I'd expect.

EQQW, proceed to max Q, then W, then E?

EQEW, then max Q, then W, then E. Aegis would be a good item to consider building. I sometimes get Heart of gold for HP, not usually ever getting to complete it.

[tribble]

If he's farmed, Veigar can instagib vayne. You could also play blitzcrank and pull her into your team of 5. See how long she lasts.

[Math_Mage]

If he's farmed, Veigar can instagib *insert character here*. You could also play blitzcrank and pull *it* into your team of 5. See how long *it* lasts.

I'm having trouble finding an *it* for which this does not hold true (except Ezreal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK_vKnVYnes) :smallwink:), making this comment less than useful for determining relative AD carry power levels in general...

[tribble]

I'm having trouble finding an *it* for which this does not hold true (except Ezreal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK_vKnVYnes) :smallwink:), making this comment less than useful for determining relative AD carry power levels in general...

Corki and trist with a bit of luck. As for Veigar, well, Sivir has a snowballs' chance in hell, but it's still a chance.

[Mirrinus]

Just had one of those "How in the world did we win that?" games. At the 15 minute mark, we were down 5 kills to 14, plus they got a dragon or two and more turrets down. Our Graves fed hard with a record of 0/7/0 at the halfway point. My lane was probably the only one with an even (but not positive) KD ratio. The other team was cocky enough to start insulting our team in the chat, talking about how horrible our members were.

The turning point came when 4 enemies (Akali, Nasus, Master Yi, Blitzcrank) were all pursuing our Cho'Gath, who was one of the few members on our team that didn't feed. He was down to less than 100 HP, while most of the enemies were all at about half health or less. Cho'Gath was desperately trying to run down the top lane to escape with them hot in pursuit, but little did they know I (as Rumble) was heading up at the same time. The Equalizer at max range caught all of them off-guard (they were in a very neat row), then I dived into them with Flamespitter and Electro-Harpoon firing on all cylinders, immediately scoring a triple kill. Nasus (who was at full health at the start) managed to escape, but ran right into our Ahri emerging from the jungle, and the two of us take him down too. And the best part was that Cho'Gath escaped alive, lol.

After that victory, I signaled for us to do Baron, and we did. Then we pushed mid hard. The enemy team was still pretty cocky at this point, talking in the chat about how we "sucked so bad we needed Baron to do anything". Well, we pushed them up to their inhibitor turret, and all 5 members of each team just kind of stood there poking for a bit. Then Cho'Gath managed to catch most of the enemy team in a Rupture, and I saw the chance and dove in, launching Equalizer to hit the entire enemy team. I then tower dove with Flamespitter and Electro-Harpoon, and luckily my team caught on and followed suit. The other team seemed to be caught off-guard again, and they just melted immediately. Four of them go down quickly, while I end up dying to turret aggro. But that still leaves us 4 up versus the lone Nasus remaining, and my team manages to push down the inhibitor turret, the inhibitor itself, both nexus turrets, and finally the nexus just as the rest of the enemy team respawns.

Just goes to show once again that it's possible to come back after a disastrously bad early game.

[tribble]

Just had one of those "How in the world did we win that?" games. At the 15 minute mark, we were down 5 kills to 14, plus they got a dragon or two and more turrets down. The Alistar/Graves lane fed hard, with Graves at 0/7/0. My lane was probably the only one with an even (but not positive) KD ratio. The other team was cocky enough to start insulting our team in the chat, talking about how horrible our members were.

The turning point came when 4 enemies (Akali, Nasus, Master Yi, Blitzcrank) were all pursuing our Cho'Gath, who was one of the few members on our team that didn't feed. He was down to less than 100 HP, while most of the enemies were all at about half health or less. Cho'Gath was desperately trying to run down the top lane to escape with them hot in pursuit, but little did they know I (as Rumble) was heading up at the same time. The Equalizer at max range caught all of them off-guard (they were in a very neat row), then I dived into them with Flamespitter and Electro-Harpoon firing on all cylinders, immediately scoring a triple kill. Nasus (who was at full health at the start) managed to escape, but ran right into our Ahri emerging from the jungle, and the two of us take him down too. And the best part was that Cho'Gath escaped alive, lol.

After that victory, I signaled for us to do Baron, and we did. Then we pushed mid hard. The enemy team was still pretty cocky at this point, talking in the chat about how we "sucked so bad we needed Baron to do anything". Well, we pushed them up to their inhibitor turret, and all 5 members of each team just kind of stood there poking for a bit. Then Cho'Gath managed to catch most of the enemy team in a Rupture, and I saw the chance and dove in, launching Equalizer to hit the entire enemy team. I then tower dove with Flamespitter and Electro-Harpoon, and luckily my team caught on and followed suit. The other team seemed to be caught off-guard again, and they just melted immediately. Four of them go down quickly, while I end up dying to turret aggro. But that still leaves us 4 up versus the lone Nasus remaining, and my team manages to push down the inhibitor turret, the inhibitor itself, both nexus turrets, and finally the nexus just as the rest of the enemy team respawns.

Just goes to show once again that it's possible to come back after a disastrously bad early game.

Yep. I had a couple this morning where the other team surrendered a couple minutes after 20, leaving me wondering "what happened, I thought they were winning?"

[Eldariel]

FWIW, I'm still in the "complaining about Graves" bandwagon. :smalltongue:
-Tankier than any other AD carry except Urgot
-Steroid among the best (Trist, Vayne compare; Kog's is probably better)
-Mobility among the best (not as far as Trist/Corki/Ez, but still walljumps; Vayne has invis-dash and ult, but no jump)
-Best burst among AD carries (MF/Trist compare, but MF is DoT and Trist is single-target with AP scaling)
-CC better than average (beats MF/Trist/Twitch, just about ties Vayne, less than Urgot/Ashe)

The only area where he is deficient is range, where he loses to most AD carries in practice.

It's worth noting, however, that Vayne is in just about the same place in most of those categories, except she trades AOE and tankiness for single-target assassination capability and anti-tank damage.

Good grief. Mugen no labyrinth.

[ex cathedra]

I'm surprised it ever abated. People generally don't like assassins because they generally snowball incredibly hard and by killing one priority target can generally open the floodgate for killing others. Vayne has sufficient burst and mobility to be an assassin.

Except she is not satisfied, because all evil must be righteously purged. Therefore, she also decided she'd like to build and play like a ranged carry whenever she cannot/should not assassinate, and so while one target is bursted down, the rest are also all killed over the course of the battle. By the same champion.

No, I don't think she is OP, but she is considered by many to be one of the select few DotA level hard carries. Who happens to also play the role that can snowball the quickest and hardest. While also being an amazing duelist and a good farmer and a safe/dangerous laner. And having one of the most spammable dashes in the game. And, of course, she can do more with enough time than anyone else to ignore any defenses whatsoever, even if that is not really what is truly good about her. Of course she is going to get grief for having all of that on her resume.

She's good, yeah, but just naming off her kit and saying "OMG 2 AWSUM" without fairly comparing it to other kits is hardly fair. She does notably less damage than Graves and Kog'Maw, while Graves and Corki have similar amounts of burst. Her famously powerful "tank-killing" is worse than Kog'Maw's. She lacks Corki and Kog'Maw's incredibly strong poke. Graves, Tristana, and Corki are more durable and/or have better escapes. Kog'Maw and Tristana wreck her with their late-game range. Caitlyn, Sivir, and Graves have better and/or easier laning phases. Graves, Caitlyn, Sivir and Corki are better at farming. A lot of those comments are overly generalized, but hopefully you'll get my point.

[Dallas-Dakota]

ForeverAloneAshe.jpg

[Math_Mage]

Good grief. Mugen no labyrinth.

Yer gonna hafta explain, because I don't understand the reference even to the point of knowing whether you agree or disagree (though I presume the latter, since you've always advocated that the game is more balanced than the community at large thinks).

[Eldariel]

Yer gonna hafta explain, because I don't understand the reference even to the point of knowing whether you agree or disagree (though I presume the latter, since you've always advocated that the game is more balanced than the community at large thinks).

It's not so much a comment of agreement or disagreement as a general throwing up of arms at this eternal labyrinth we're in. We've reached a position where champions are fine for months until we suddenly decide X, Y or Z is overpowered because of Random Reason™ ("Too Good Lategame", "Too Strong Laning", "Too Good Snowballing", "Too Good AOE").

Kennen hasn't been changed since October and yet in December people randomly decided that "AOE is pop, Kennen OP now!" Vayne was considered a secondary pick to strong laning ADs until people suddenly decided that they want supercarries with average laning instead of strong laning carries. For some god-awful reason junglers are supposed to solely be carry-types now and apparently someone decided that Rammus Better Than Amumu After All.


I've come to the conclusion that this is merely a circle of opinions with little actual meaning; depraved actual overpowered champions to complain of, people look at champions that excel at one thing at the cost of something else, conveniently forget about the cost and then decide that the champion is too good at that one thing and therefore is too strong. And then people do this for like half the champion base.

I've just become disillusioned with the hivemind; I find people claim champions to be too strong too easily without thorough search and consideration of the alternatives. As a principal rule, for every choice to pick one champion for a team composition of course means you're picking that champion over all the alternatives and thus picking any champion means not picking the dozen other alternatives. Given the massive variety in the champions' abilities, outside few extremely similar exceptions any kind of objective comparison is nigh' impossible. And yet, that does not seem to matter to many people; masses will gladly cry foul at anything that's commonly played and performs well, and indeed anything others cry about. This does not apply to individuals, of course, but obviously the voice of individuals drowns in the masses.


Mostly, I'm just saying there's precious little value in saying X, Y or Z is overpowered without at least some cold, hard numbers to look at comparing it to every other possible option you could pick it in that slot, and some raw statistics on performance.

[Moonshadow]

Mostly, I'm just saying there's precious little value in saying X, Y or Z is overpowered without at least some cold, hard numbers to look at comparing it to every other possible option you could pick it in that slot, and some raw statistics on performance.

X champ is OP because Elementz says so.


1v1 me, you scrub.

[Temotei]

Fizz still makes me mad.

[Dada]

It's not so much a comment of agreement or disagreement as a general throwing up of arms at this eternal labyrinth we're in. We've reached a position where champions are fine for months until we suddenly decide X, Y or Z is overpowered because of Random Reason™ ("Too Good Lategame", "Too Strong Laning", "Too Good Snowballing", "Too Good AOE").

Kennen hasn't been changed since October and yet in December people randomly decided that "AOE is pop, Kennen OP now!" Vayne was considered a secondary pick to strong laning ADs until people suddenly decided that they want supercarries with average laning instead of strong laning carries. For some god-awful reason junglers are supposed to solely be carry-types now and apparently someone decided that Rammus Better Than Amumu After All.


I've come to the conclusion that this is merely a circle of opinions with little actual meaning; depraved actual overpowered champions to complain of, people look at champions that excel at one thing at the cost of something else, conveniently forget about the cost and then decide that the champion is too good at that one thing and therefore is too strong. And then people do this for like half the champion base.

I've just become disillusioned with the hivemind; I find people claim champions to be too strong too easily without thorough search and consideration of the alternatives. As a principal rule, for every choice to pick one champion for a team composition of course means you're picking that champion over all the alternatives and thus picking any champion means not picking the dozen other alternatives. Given the massive variety in the champions' abilities, outside few extremely similar exceptions any kind of objective comparison is nigh' impossible. And yet, that does not seem to matter to many people; masses will gladly cry foul at anything that's commonly played and performs well, and indeed anything others cry about. This does not apply to individuals, of course, but obviously the voice of individuals drowns in the masses.


Mostly, I'm just saying there's precious little value in saying X, Y or Z is overpowered without at least some cold, hard numbers to look at comparing it to every other possible option you could pick it in that slot, and some raw statistics on performance.

Well said. I don't necessarily agree that there are no OP champions, but I completely agree that more or less random whims of the community plays a far greater role than actual power level in determining what is considered OP.

[tyckspoon]

The thing that actually bothers me about Vayne? Her passive (and especially the upgrade to it when she ults.) The true-damage thing is annoying, but it can still be built against and it's not even the only percentile damage effect around (percentile true is a pretty paranoia-inducing combination, I'll admit.) But that passive.. I suppose it's part of the 'I'm an assassin, but also I'ma carry!' thing. If Vayne wants to get you, it feels near impossible to get away from her. With most champs, if you're careful and have a dash/blink/CC of your own you can probably get away, or at least make them waste a lot of time running you down; wait until they use their own gapcloser, counter with your own CC/movement ability, run for the tower/a bush/teammates/whatever. Vayne? 40 flat movespeed bonus, all the time, as long as she's approaching. Ult? 120. That's.. pretty ridiculous, IMO. With standard Boots 2 and her ult bonus she hits the higher speed softcap in flat movespeed. No, you're not getting away from that, and it makes her incredibly good at turning a mere winning fight into an ace.

[Dogmantra]

Basically, my preferred banlist in 1400s Elo is:
My preferred banlist sucks because most people never play the characters I'd ban. I mean who plays Teemo in ranked?


Kennen hasn't been changed since October and yet in December people randomly decided that "AOE is pop, Kennen OP now!"

This is the one I least understand. I have sort of seen the other ideas at least take hold (though they're probably rather self fulfilling prophecies, people believe X is OP so they play X more and get better at X) but I wasn't aware that people even thought Kennen was bad or not good. And you still don't see him. What's up with that.

[Winthur]

Don't need AP. Frozen heart, Negatron cloak and Reverie is your core. If you need damage you build a tri-force. But it's not worth rushing.

And if you can't find yourself justifying buying a Frozen Heart (which rarely happens but who knows, maybe their AD carry doesn't exist or is just simply not a threat), you can go for Warmogs and Spirit Visage. Works.



The math on this had been done to death but, honestly, her true damage isn't high enough to warrant the QQing it gets. Vayne is OP because of her Kit, not because of her W.

True, her entire kit has one purpose - boost her right click.

But then again, Chaox finds that the three top AD carries are Graves, Graves and Graves, so I'd be inclined not to call Vayne OP. Personally I'm more annoyed whenever he pokes me like Caitlyn, duels me like Vayne and bursts me down like Tristana, and also moves like Jagger. With Vayne, at least she has short range and if you win your lane (which should happen if you are not a lousy AD carry player like me) you can set her behind while you are able to do other stuff.

And eh. She's a short-ranged champion who is dependent on her movement speed. Throw a Skarner in her face.

[Eldariel]

1v1 me, you scrub.

You know, I almost wish you weren't being painfully obviously sarcastic so that I could obliviously give you the "challenge accepted" :smalltongue:


This is the one I least understand. I have sort of seen the other ideas at least take hold (though they're probably rather self fulfilling prophecies, people believe X is OP so they play X more and get better at X) but I wasn't aware that people even thought Kennen was bad or not good. And you still don't see him. What's up with that.

Fools everywhere. It's been a long time since what people consider strong has been actually strong. The collective is so far behind in the patches, and the understanding of the "Why"s and "How"s of any given metagame are so poor that fools cannot assess champions outside the constraints of a metagame, even though due to the relatively good current balance the whole "metagame" is just an arbitrary bunch of champions people currently like to play with no real power behind it, meaning it's just as possible to move outside it and perform just as well.

No, maybe it's always been like that but I definitely claim that at a point, power differentials were more pronounced; there were clearly superior picks. Right now...ehh, there are good pubstompers but that's about it.

[Adumbration]

Fools everywhere. It's been a long time since what people consider strong has been actually strong. The collective is so far behind in the patches, and the understanding of the "Why"s and "How"s of any given metagame are so poor that fools cannot assess champions outside the constraints of a metagame, even though due to the relatively good current balance the whole "metagame" is just an arbitrary bunch of champions people currently like to play with no real power behind it, meaning it's just as possible to move outside it and perform just as well.

No, maybe it's always been like that but I definitely claim that at a point, power differentials were more pronounced; there were clearly superior picks. Right now...ehh, there are good pubstompers but that's about it.

The last OP champ I can really recall is the old Xin, back when I started playing. It pretty much became a game of 'who's Xin get's more fed' in normals. After that, no claims of "That champ is OP!" has left a particularly great impression on me.

Champion match-ups are a different thing. There are some cases where one champ might as well be OP when matched up against a particular champion, unless met with clearly superior skill.

Mind you, I am guilty of using OP as a word myself on champions I think are viable yet not commonly played. :smalltongue:

[Talesin]

Given I tend to write way too much in these posts i'm gonna stick them in spoilers

Response to Dogmantra's Teemo


My preferred banlist sucks because most people never play the characters I'd ban. I mean who plays Teemo in ranked?


I've played him 3 times in ranked. Once solo top, once mid and once bot with a support, though I went mid for the Eve reason listed below and ended up bot because one guy didn't communicate at all during champion select and then picked Irelia with 5 seconds to go after the previous 4 of us had picked Aniva, Teemo, Soraka and jungle Udyr.

Won the top game against Garen and the bot game, though Soraka and I fed Graves and Lux so I was more or less useless until later in the match (mushroom assists/kills ftw) and lost the mid one due to an eve feeding like crazy after he got random eve and then decided to jungle after someone had picked jungle Udyr.

Overall I was surprised how well he matched up against certain champions. My lane against Garen wasn't hard, but I didn't expect it to be, the mid against Brand went well once I realised he was doing the same thing over and over so was probably more him being a bad player than Teemo standing any chance against him in lane. As the carry in bottom lane though.. Never ever again.

Why do you want him banned specifically?

Teleport
What are people's opinions on using teleport to assist lanes either on a solo top or a support? I find that when playing solo top I tend to run back to my lane and save my teleport to assist in countering a lane gank unless I need it get back to my lane and stop something happening there. I've not done this in ranked much yet as i'm still fairly new to it and am more focused in trying to do my job properly.

The support idea mainly comes from playing duo queue with a friend of mine and I can see in solo queue that it wouldn't be all that useful. I find, if support I tend to run with CV and then either exhaust if playing Taric or maybe heal/exhaust if i'm running as Janna. I don't think these are all that useful in securing kills in a way that teleporting to a ward to assist my jungler in stealing their blue or suddenly appearing top lane to assist a gank or help counter a gank by their jungler would be.

[Moonshadow]

You know, I almost wish you weren't being painfully obviously sarcastic so that I could obliviously give you the "challenge accepted" :smalltongue:

No one ever takes me up on the offer :'( I never get the chance to show that Garen is a better duelist than Trynd, they always send multiple people to run me off.

[Morph Bark]

The math on this had been done to death but, honestly, her true damage isn't high enough to warrant the QQing it gets. Vayne is OP because of her Kit, not because of her W. She is both an assassin and a AD carry at the same time, and this makes her very hard to defend against when caught in the open. She also has some of the highest AD scaling in the game (the highest? I dunno) which makes her very difficult to defend against late game. Heroes like Caitlyn can try to shut her down in lane, but, honestly, if Vayne does things right, even after getting harassed out the ass, she'll probably sustain and just farm. Late game she wrecks Caitlyn 9/10 times.

Having said all that: armor. Build armor. Armor and Attack Speed reduction items. She's vayne. if you hate her, ban her. If you can't ban her, well, play draft mode. :smalltongue:

Since her Tumble resets her AA timer, she can get off attacks quicker and trigger the true damage faster and more often. The invisibility part of her ult prevents her from being targeted.

And since I've taken to playing a number of no-mana champions like Shyvana and Vlad, Frozen Heart isn't a great item to build. Plus, I already had over 200 armo and she still shot my ass to hell in 3 seconds. :/

Once Vayne has two Phantom Dancers, there just seems to be so little you can do against her.

[Dogmantra]

Why do you want him banned specifically?

I feel like Teemo is one of the best characters in the game. Blitz, Galio, Singed, Cho'Gath, Malzahar, Teemo, I think was the list, I'm on a different computer, so I don't have access. Anyway, those are who I feel are probably the best guys, and Teemo is one of them. He's one of the strongest laners in the game, has absurd map awareness naturally, and does too much damage for his own good.

EDIT: Also, he totally counters a lot of characters, autoattackers cry, and then he also kites melee forever.

[Moonshadow]

I think it's probably something to do with that even if you have Frozen Heart and trigger Randuins, it's only a 40% loss in ASpd?

So unless I'm wrong, it would bring her down from 2 attacks per second to 1.6. Which in the grand scheme of things, means diddly squat.

Unless subtracting ASpd works differently. I'm honestly not sure how it interacts.

[toasty]

And since I've taken to playing a number of no-mana champions like Shyvana and Vlad, Frozen Heart isn't a great item to build. Plus, I already had over 200 armo and she still shot my ass to hell in 3 seconds. :/

If you are being three shot as the tank then you guys did something incredibly wrong during teamfights/skirmishes. Vayne shouldn't get that fed from farming alone.


I think it's probably something to do with that even if you have Frozen Heart and trigger Randuins, it's only a 40% loss in ASpd?

So unless I'm wrong, it would bring her down from 2 attacks per second to 1.6. Which in the grand scheme of things, means diddly squat..

That's still... a 40% reduction in attackspeed. Its still defense. I didn't say it was really, really good, I said it was defense and that it can protect you.

The bottom line is that Vayne is the best Autoattacker in the game and that late game no one can 1v1 her autoattacking. Graves might be more "OP" because he's both Easier to play and does a lot more AOE damage right now (and right now, AoE is looking to be king with Double Will heroes like Karthus+Kennen and AoE junglers like Skarner).

Vayne is OP in a straight up, equally farmed 1v1 scenario vs all other AD carries. Unlike Ashe, she actually scales to do stupid damage. Like Ashe, however, she suffers in many standard Duo-lanes and is required to play very defensively and hope that she can sustain against enemy harass. A good exmaple of this is my recent Soraka game where me and Vayne barely survived against Ali+Caitlyn in a brutal lane match. Luckily, Caitlyn never actually killed us and fell behind in farm and late game Vayn > Caitlyn. Also: GP went 3 gold/10 atmogs and got 2 towers due to ganks. :smallbiggrin:

[Morph Bark]

If you are being three shot as the tank then you guys did something incredibly wrong during teamfights/skirmishes. Vayne shouldn't get that fed from farming alone.

Point is it's happened several times. This game I guess it can be partially blamed on our Soraka getting DC'd for 3 levels (and pre-6), but I couldn't really see where it otherwise went really wrong. Up to midgame I did okay, then lategame I'm useless thanks to Vayne.

I think that game we also didn't really have an AD carry, more like one AP carry (Brand), a support (Soraka) and three tanky DPS (one of them Garen who faced Mundo solo top).

I tried to target Vayne with Exhaust in every teamfight as well. We got her down a few times, but not before she got one of us as well.


On that note, does anyone have any advice for Shyvana jungle? I take Smite and Exhaust, though I've noticed Smite isn't all that necessary (at least not against Blue, it's good against Red and Dragon). I feel like I stay in the jungle a little too long is my primary concern.

[Arbitrarity]

I think it's probably something to do with that even if you have Frozen Heart and trigger Randuins, it's only a 40% loss in ASpd?

So unless I'm wrong, it would bring her down from 2 attacks per second to 1.6. Which in the grand scheme of things, means diddly squat.

Unless subtracting ASpd works differently. I'm honestly not sure how it interacts.

1.2, AS reduction is multiplicative. That's big. Also, it would be (0.8*0.65), or 0.52, so more like 1.04 attacks. That cuts damage in HALF (ignoring AA resets, I.e. tumble).
Need more reduction? Why not Malphite (+Nasus)

[PersonMan]

X champ is OP because Elementz says so.


1v1 me, you scrub.

I instalock Teemo!

My ELO is higher than yours.



Teleport
What are people's opinions on using teleport to assist lanes either on a solo top or a support? I find that when playing solo top I tend to run back to my lane and save my teleport to assist in countering a lane gank unless I need it get back to my lane and stop something happening there. I've not done this in ranked much yet as i'm still fairly new to it and am more focused in trying to do my job properly.

The support idea mainly comes from playing duo queue with a friend of mine and I can see in solo queue that it wouldn't be all that useful. I find, if support I tend to run with CV and then either exhaust if playing Taric or maybe heal/exhaust if i'm running as Janna. I don't think these are all that useful in securing kills in a way that teleporting to a ward to assist my jungler in stealing their blue or suddenly appearing top lane to assist a gank or help counter a gank by their jungler would be.

It depends on how your lane goes and how the rest of the team co-ordinates with you, really. I normally run Teleport/Something, trying out Exhaust on supports now, and I've found that the utility is very helpful. Need to go back, but so does your lanemate? Use 'port to make sure the tower isn't undefended and they push. Did you just push down a tower, and top just got ganked/is being pushed? 'Port in to defend it.

Generally, if I'm in a solo lane I try to push down one tower then roam, helping/ganking other lanes and occasionally farming my own. Theoretically it means the enemy can easily farm their own lane...but it generally means that they go to help other lanes fairly soon, or those lanes are taken apart pretty quickly. Teleport is pretty useful for this. In fact, my strategy in quite a few games is 'lane for a while, try to get kills/assists until we push down their tower and then just go around helping everyone else until we start teamfighting', more or less. I don't really have a set strategy, but I think this is what I do most of the time.

If 'saving/greatly helping champs in other lanes' is your thing, I'd recommend Teleport Shen. Ulti up means (to use an example that came up three times in my last game) that your well-farmed and slightly fed Vayne gets a kill and runs away from a gank instead of dying. Teleport up means that bot lane is not getting pushed while you shop after saving [champion]. I generally mention it whenever my ultimate is ready so that they know (and sometimes they act on it, jumping into a normally suicidal fight only to have me say 'no kills for you!' to the enemy with an ~700 damage shield).

[Daverin]

She's good, yeah, but just naming off her kit and saying "OMG 2 AWSUM" without fairly comparing it to other kits is hardly fair. She does notably less damage than Graves and Kog'Maw, while Graves and Corki have similar amounts of burst. Her famously powerful "tank-killing" is worse than Kog'Maw's. She lacks Corki and Kog'Maw's incredibly strong poke. Graves, Tristana, and Corki are more durable and/or have better escapes. Kog'Maw and Tristana wreck her with their late-game range. Caitlyn, Sivir, and Graves have better and/or easier laning phases. Graves, Caitlyn, Sivir and Corki are better at farming. A lot of those comments are overly generalized, but hopefully you'll get my point.

Well, not so sure about 'notably' less damage than Graves, and I would consider their bursts differently suited, but other than that, you are exactly right. As I have stated: no, she is not broken. A good kit, yes, but not broken. And what you have pointed out are some of the reasons.

I was simply pointing out those generalizations that get people to complain, and how I am surprised the complaining ever abated. In general, I agree with Eldariel, this game's balance is much better than people give it credit for.

Also, Vayne counters? I'd imagine killing her first is a good option. That is the task of an assassin, so carrying a good Kassadin, Akali, Ahri(?), and the like can do wonders. Malphite in general screws up the potential of ranged carries. Tryndamere, although he won't stop the true damage, makes anybody's AD fairly laughable for a good duration. Actually, in general Trynd is a good pick since I've stated before how I think he can be a very effective anticarry/assassin, and, well, true damage dat ult, Vayne. Admittedly, he probably is not as good a choice because of the pushback in this scenario.

I'd also ask about how the fights started in these games. Which team initiated? What champ did it, or how did it come about? Vayne would be pretty ruinous if she got free hits off of you, so be sure to know whether it was really "just" her or if, in fact, the other team had some advantage in the fights like that. Because, in my experience, most of the defeats I've ever suffered were because we had absolutely no control over the flow of battle, no initation, no counter initiation, etc. Meanwhile, if you can get the jump on the fight, well, you can just abuse Vayne before she can even get a shot off. Just some food for thought.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

I think there were a few Swain players 'round these parts... what Masteries and rune setups do y'all run on him?

[Arbitrarity]

Well, not so sure about 'notably' less damage than Graves, and I would consider their bursts differently suited, but other than that, you are exactly right. As I have stated: no, she is not broken. A good kit, yes, but not broken. And what you have pointed out are some of the reasons.



Graves E steroid real strong. See my earlier math linked below, but Vayne beats Graves on damage unless Graves lands his AOEs pretty well.

I haven't done math on kog (see http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12325511#post12325511) but I suspect his permanent +30% AS and bonus percentile damage would beat Vayne's dps. Depends on enemy mr though. If we assume kog's AS is high enough he can't cast efficiently apart from w...

Assumptions as in in linked post. IE PD BT, 18.

Base AS 0.665
AD 280
AS boost 157.7%
Crit mult 82.5%
AA dps 875
With w active: add 8% target max hp*1.71 (274 to 548 dps)

Thus, over 20s, with 11s w uptime, deals 17500 AA, and 2914 to 5828 damage from w, for 20414 damage on a 2k hp target, 23328 on 4k hp target. This is slightly better than Vayne if we disregard the entire true damage thing, and better than Graves only if he fails to land AOEs.

Over 8s, this is 9192 to 11384, which is pretty amazing. Beats everyone on high hp targets, though Vayne and Graves do more on 2k hp, and good AOE hits from Graves can do more total.

Again though, be careful to note that my assumptions about how tumble works with Vayne may be inaccurate, as they require the tumble animation to take around 0.6 seconds, and the player to have impeccable timing. If these assumptions aren't met, tumble may not even be a net benefit to Vayne's dps.

[Silverraptor]

I feel like Teemo is one of the best characters in the game. Blitz, Galio, Singed, Cho'Gath, Malzahar, Teemo, I think was the list, I'm on a different computer, so I don't have access. Anyway, those are who I feel are probably the best guys, and Teemo is one of them. He's one of the strongest laners in the game, has absurd map awareness naturally, and does too much damage for his own good.

EDIT: Also, he totally counters a lot of characters, autoattackers cry, and then he also kites melee forever.

Hey Dog, Could I get your mastery, runes, items, and skill build for teemo usually?:smallsmile:

[Shadowleaf]

Hey Dog, Could I get your mastery, runes, items, and skill build for teemo usually?:smallsmile:


Well the first thing's first, you need to open the game by saying something related to the skin you're using. When I'm using Cottontail Teemo, I like to say "I'm late, I'm late, for a very important date!", Astronaut Teemo is "One small hop for Yordle, one giant bounce for Yordlekind." and Super Teemo is "For justice, and the Bandle City way!" This is important because how else are you going to drill it into your opponent that you have not only got multiple Teemo skins, but you spend time thinking about them?

Anyway, now that's out of the way you probably want to start yourself off with Cloth Armour + 5 health potions. I know what you're thinking, and boots just isn't an important start on Teemo. Move Quick + Move Quints + Quickness in Utility is actually more than enough speed until you've finished your entire Wriggle's Lantern (which incidentally is your first item). After that, I like to pick up my boots 2 (I have a soft spot for Moots of Bobility on Teemo, but they're really unnecessary, you can grab Sorc Shoes for offense, Treads/Tabi for defense, Stompers if you really want to, though I'd recommend against Zerkers because a] they're ugly and b] you get tons of attack speed from the rest of the build). You can actually "pull a Janna" and not bother with boots 2 for a while if you want and go straight into your Wit's End. I cannot stress how absurdly good Wit's End is. Get one. Get a Wit's End. After that I like Phage.

So basically, your core is three megacheap, really good items, Wriggle's, Wit's End and Phage. After that you can either (in order of priority):
1. Start work on Madred's Bloodrazor
2. Finish off Frozen Mallet
3. Defenses. With a Mallet, I like to get Force of Nature or Atma's, and with being Teemo I like to get a Guardian Angel. For more offensive MR, both Abyssal Sceptre and Hexdrinker work.
4. Build a Malady, it's silly and niche, but it's a cheap way of increasing your damage output
5. Build something which'll give you way more damage, Infinity Edge, Bloodthirster or maybe Black Cleaver.

Sometimes if it gets to really late on and I've finished my build, I'll sell the Wriggle's for a Bloodthirster, just for more sustain.

On Dominion, it's basically Boots + Pickaxe to start, going into Kitae's Bloodrazor, Wit's End, with an Entropy or Mallet depending on what you need.

The runes I use are attack speed marks and seals, with CDR glyphs and movespeed quints. I also pick up 21 in offense (though I avoid things that aren't going to be particularly useful for an onhit mostly magic damage build, like the armour pen and extra crit damage) with 9 in utility.
Quoting from like 3 pages ago.

[Dogmantra]

Hey Dog, Could I get your mastery, runes, items, and skill build for teemo usually?:smallsmile:
I'm at VAF's house right now, so I don't have access to my exact mastery page I use, I remember it's called ON DUTY and it's 21/0/9 though, taking mostly AD and attack speed, but avoiding armour pen and crit chance because I mostly build onhit and there are other masteries you can take that are more useful. I actually take whacking towers too, because you end up with lots of attack speed.

Other than that, runes I use are attack speed marks and seals, CDR glyphs and movespeed quints. Typical item build will be Wriggle's/Moots of Bobility/Wit's End/Frozen Mallet/Madred's Bloodrazor/X, where X is defensive or Malady or Bloodthirster or Infinity Edge or something. Start with Cloth + 5 potions.

Skilling is typically Toxic Shot > Move Quick > Toxic Shot > Blinding Dart, focusing Toxic Shot, secondary focusing Move Quick. Some lanes I take Blinding Dart at 2 because I need it, play that by ear, if you do do that, often you wanna grab Move Quick at 3.

[Zen Master]

Discussions about power levels in game always seem to have the same basic flaw: No one agrees on the definition of overpowered.

Is a champion overpowered if:

It is impossible to win against that champion - except if you play the same champion or are 2v1?
If that champion is able to win any fight 1v1, provided all cooldowns are ready?
If that champion snowballs into being impossible to win against?

My personal definition would be: Any champion that consistently wins fights at equal gear levels or regardless of player skill against most other champions is clearly overpowered.

By my definition, several champions are clearly overpowered. They aren't the ones I seem to often hear others worry about tho.

Then again - I'm not much worried about power levels. I just wish I got better teams =)

[toasty]

Point is it's happened several times. This game I guess it can be partially blamed on our Soraka getting DC'd for 3 levels (and pre-6), but I couldn't really see where it otherwise went really wrong. Up to midgame I did okay, then lategame I'm useless thanks to Vayne.


Yeah, Vayne snowballs. That's why she's awesome. Really, its about denying her to chance to get kills, more so than other carries. She's a carry that also is an assassin. Its a bit of a flawed design but she IS held back by her inability to poke or AoE clear waves the way basically all over carries (even Ashe, lol) do. Vayne is useless in a poke/heal war and is denied in lane by Caitlyn and probably Sivir/Kog (the gods of poke comps). She also brings no utility to the team except damage (Kog and Trist are similar, but have range and the ability to do some magic damage at various points in the game). Someone like Corki, for instance, has good laning, good burst, amazing poke, and the ability to shred armor. I love Corki. :smalltongue:


Why not Malphite

You mean Zoidberg? :smallamused:

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Discussions about power levels in game always seem to have the same basic flaw: No one agrees on the definition of overpowered.

That's the kicker all right. Personally, I've never seen a clear, concise and universally applicable definition of OP, and I don't think I ever will.

[9mm]

Personally the problem with Vayne isn't her burst, her constant damage, her skillshot dodging roll, or even her knockback: it's her stealth. The ability to instantly remove all agro mid team fight and re-position safely every 2 seconds is redonculious. It is for all intents an purposes a blink; now remember why Ezeral had his legs broken. Remove the stealth or make counter stealth something more than either a 400g vision aura or 175g for an area (Hextech sweeper, SR NEEDS YOU!).

[Shadowleaf]

Discussions about power levels in game always seem to have the same basic flaw: No one agrees on the definition of overpowered.

Is a champion overpowered if:

It is impossible to win against that champion - except if you play the same champion or are 2v1?
If that champion is able to win any fight 1v1, provided all cooldowns are ready?
If that champion snowballs into being impossible to win against?

My personal definition would be: Any champion that consistently wins fights at equal gear levels or regardless of player skill against most other champions is clearly overpowered.

By my definition, several champions are clearly overpowered. They aren't the ones I seem to often hear others worry about tho.

Then again - I'm not much worried about power levels. I just wish I got better teams =)How about champions that aren't meant to go 1 on 1 with other champions, but have other roles (mainly supporting)? If you cranked up Sona's numbers, she might not be able to go 1 on 1 with almost all champions, but she would most likely become OP compared to the other champions fufilling the same role as her.

[Zen Master]

How about champions that aren't meant to go 1 on 1 with other champions, but have other roles (mainly supporting)? If you cranked up Sona's numbers, she might not be able to go 1 on 1 with almost all champions, but she would most likely become OP compared to the other champions fufilling the same role as her.

I wasn't really trying to define it for good and ever. You could go into some deeper statistical analysis, I suppose - teams with this or that champ have such and such increased chance of succes - and that might be more accurate.

Personally, I feel support falls flat on it face with the utter fail of trying to support a team that doesn't know what to do with it. A good team with support may become great, but a bad team with support magically becomes even worse.

In other words, support rarely is OP on it's own.

[Lix Lorn]

I'd say that a champion is OP if you would never consider using any other champion for the role that they fill, regardless of both your team and the enemy teams choices and skill level.
(When I say 'you' I mean an utterly unbias player.)
And they're UP if the opposite is true.

[Dogmantra]

I'd say that a champion is OP if you would never consider using any other champion for the role that they fill, regardless of both your team and the enemy teams choices and skill level.
(When I say 'you' I mean an utterly unbias player.)
And they're UP if the opposite is true.

AD Carry: Teemo
AP Carry: Teemo
Support: Teemo
Jungler: Teemo
Tanky DPS: Teemo

8)

For reals though, I was actually wondering, you don't "need" an AD carry or a tank or a mage or whatever, they're just prepackaged ways of getting beef, initiation, burst, sustained damage and an even mix of damage types. I wanna do a team with physical casters for burst and Karthus or something for sustain. Bam in your face typical team comps.

[Arbitrarity]

AD Carry: Teemo
AP Carry: Teemo
Support: Teemo
Jungler: Teemo
Tanky DPS: Teemo

8)

For reals though, I was actually wondering, you don't "need" an AD carry or a tank or a mage or whatever, they're just prepackaged ways of getting beef, initiation, burst, sustained damage and an even mix of damage types. I wanna do a team with physical casters for burst and Karthus or something for sustain. Bam in your face typical team comps.

All the physical casters love top lane :(

Karthus mid, Renekton top, Riven Jungle, support Lee Sin/Pantheon bottom? (Or Riven/Panth bottom, which is probably better)


I'm trying to imagine if physical casters would be balanced as AP, if their ratios were cut in half, and they added a passive +0.5 AP to their autoattacks, and anything scaling off total AD added an approximation of +50/60/70/80/90 (multiplied by ratio) base damage, similar to Corki (except for the duration reduction part). The passive 0.5 AP actually means a lot, which means I need to get better at mixing in AA's on Renekton (who doesn't get encouraged to do this as obviously as Riven/Lee Sin)

[Lix Lorn]

AD Carry: Teemo
AP Carry: Teemo
Support: Teemo
Jungler: Teemo
Tanky DPS: Teemo

8)
I THINK you may count as juuust a little bias.

[Joran]

AD Carry: Teemo
AP Carry: Teemo
Support: Teemo
Jungler: Teemo
Tanky DPS: Teemo

8)


Shouldn't it be:

AD Carry: Blitzcrank
AP Carry: Blitzcrank
Support: Blitzcrank
Jungle: Blitzcrank
Tanky DPS: Definitely not Blitzcrank

[Dogmantra]

AP Carry: Blitzcrank

EVERY TIME YOU BUILD AP BLITZCRANK...


Think of the gunblades ;_;

[Joran]

EVERY TIME YOU BUILD AP BLITZCRANK...


Think of the gunblades ;_;

You're right, I'm sorry, here's the new team:

AP Carry: Definitely not Blitzcrank
AD Carry: Blitzcrank
Support: Blitzcrank
Jungle: Blitzcrank
Tanky DPS: Blitzcrank

Your Gunblades are safe!

[Arbitrarity]

How about
AD Carry: Kennen
AP Carry: Kennen
Support: Kennen
Jungler: Amumu
Tanky DPS: Kennen

[Mutant Bunny]

For reals though, I was actually wondering, you don't "need" an AD carry or a tank or a mage or whatever, they're just prepackaged ways of getting beef, initiation, burst, sustained damage and an even mix of damage types. I wanna do a team with physical casters for burst and Karthus or something for sustain. Bam in your face typical team comps.

I'd like to try Ryze and Urgot on a team; Ryze's powerful lategame makes up for Urgot's falling-off. Send Urgot mid and Ryze bot to farm with the support.

In this amateur's view (which means I invite correction or comment), other options may include:

AD caster: Yorick, Talon, Ezreal, Nidalee, Renekton, Gangplank

Sustain AP: Swain, Mordekaiser, Vladimir, Cassiopeia, Amumu

Basically, anyone who doesn't fit the meta well could be part of an unconventional but nonetheless effective teamcomp.

[tribble]

Vayne is OP in a straight up, equally farmed 1v1 scenario vs all other AD carries.

Including tryndamere?:smallamused:

[Daverin]

Including tryndamere?:smallamused:

In a 1v1, Trynd will need to be kind of careful, as a Vayne has both the stealth/dash and her knockback. If she can learn to pull it off so she gets you to ult (should NOT be hard for her to do), run, convince you to slow/dash, and then shoot you backwards, that is quite a bit of wasted time, and now Trynd may need to be the one to run... from the champ who goes faster than you while chasing. I would think him much better at countering her in a teamfight where he has the team dynamic and fight chaos assisting him.

[tyckspoon]

Including tryndamere?:smallamused:

Would depend largely on player skill and, I suspect, on whether or not there was a wall handy for Vayne to stun Tryndamere against. IME it's not terribly hard for a farmed AD carry to blow up Tryndamere; the trouble is when he then ults and has those five seconds where the fact that you only needed 2 to kill him doesn't matter. A carefully applied Condemn plus the mobility and evasiveness she gets from her ult-enhanced Tumble should let her win if played well.

[Joran]

Vayne is OP in a straight up, equally farmed 1v1 scenario vs all other AD carries.

Blitzcrank? Teemo?

Who am I and why do I suddenly have a British accent and an urge to make MS Paint tutorials of awesome champions?

[Mutant Bunny]

Would depend largely on player skill and, I suspect, on whether or not there was a wall handy for Vayne to stun Tryndamere against. IME it's not terribly hard for a farmed AD carry to blow up Tryndamere; the trouble is when he then ults and has those five seconds where the fact that you only needed 2 to kill him doesn't matter. A carefully applied Condemn plus the mobility and evasiveness she gets from her ult-enhanced Tumble should let her win if played well.

One should recall that, even though Vayne can hit Tryn into walls, Tryn can pass over them to escape. How each should and would be played and built depends on the circumstances, especially if the whole point is for the two to face each other.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Not to mention that a proper Tryndamere should either have Cleanse or a QSS.

[Temotei]

I'm at VAF's house right now, so I don't have access to my exact mastery page I use, I remember it's called ON DUTY and it's 21/0/9 though, taking mostly AD and attack speed, but avoiding armour pen and crit chance because I mostly build onhit and there are other masteries you can take that are more useful. I actually take whacking towers too, because you end up with lots of attack speed.

I've been using this (http://leaguecraft.com/masteries/1300441001303000100000000000000001300400001000000) and it's worked so far.

Also, the last game I played in (normal draft), there was this guy on our team who wanted to ban Kayle because she was a "top-tier ban pro ban." I wasn't banning, so it wasn't my choice, but I guess the banning dude was okay with it, so he did and he was all "meta OP Kayle OP pro ban."

Troll, clueless, or no?

[tribble]

So, I did the math and vayne's silver bolts do in fact outdamage the true damage from a corki with triforce, boots, a fully stacked manamune and three fully stacked bloodthirsters, even if the target has two thousand hit points, which is on the low end.

I did not calculate crit chance from the triforce because I don't know how critical hits interact with corki's passive, nor did I calculate sheen procs, because I don't know if they benefit from corki's passive either. If they did, that would be an additional 10 true damage per hit, IF corki is skilled enough to rocket between every attack.

[toasty]

Blitzcrank? Teemo?

Who am I and why do I suddenly have a British accent and an urge to make MS Paint tutorials of awesome champions?


Including tryndamere?:smallamused:

To be fair, when I say AD Carry I think of Heroes that are A) ranged, B) go bottom with 0 CS supports and farm.. Of the champions mentioned only teemo kinda counts, and I think Teemo will still lose to Vayne.

edit: thinking about it: Trynd probably does beat Vayne. Blitz loses, I have no idea how is would win.

[Morph Bark]

Y'know, from levels 10-30 I rarely played anything other than Teemo (prior to that it was Fiddlesticks, then his Drain got nerfed). I used to rush Nashor's Tooth on him, then go full AP (Gunblade, Deathcap, Lichbane, Zhonya's, Boots), then turned to AD Teemo (Double PD and Madred's), then finally went AS/AP on-hit with him, but all the time I had trouble until after the laning phase because I got killed so much. I actually stayed away from teamfights and backdoored all the time (teleport shrooms ftw) and that was also the cause of me playing full AP for a long while as my shrooms killed more than anything else.

Now that I'm expanding my repertoire (currently good with Morgana, Taric, Alistar and Sona, okay with Shyvana and Udyr jungle, do alright with a bunch of other AP carries), I'm thinking of taking up Teemo again. I still have my old rune page for him (AS Marks, Armor Seals since the dodge refund, AP Glyphs, dunno Quints) and still got a mastery page for him as well (21/0/9 I believe).

I'd like to know what builds are currently viable on Teemo and how to play him in teamfights so that I don't die so easily. (I think it may also have to do with the fact that Teemo's existence is like an auto-taunt to many people. WHY DO THEY WANT TO KILL HIM HE'S TOO FLUFFY.)

[Arbitrarity]

That's his passive. Also, crits AND sheen procs work with it, so I think you've underrated it by a fair bit, but of course it does less; it's a passive. Seriously though, Corki has amazing damage, and spamming rockets is easy.

Let's add Corki into our previous champion mix. Corki replaces IE with a Trinity, and PD with Manamune, so has Trinity/BT/Manamune/Zerkers. (I've actually built Manamune less lately on Corki, owing to delay in doing TONS OF DAMAGE, and it's less damaging for cost than, say, Black Cleaver)

Base AS: 0.658
Mana: 2559
AD: 313
AP: 30
Crit: 15%
bonus AS: 96.4%
AD DPS: 465
Trinity procs add 75% of base AD (102) per second, so effective AD dps is 540.

Over 20s, can fire 10 missiles, 2 full Gatling guns, 3 PB's. Valkyrie damage not included.

AA: 9300
Trinity procs: 1650
Passive: 1095
Q: 885
W: ignored
E: 1216 (plus armor shred)
R: 3641

Total: 17772. Keep in mind a lot of that (EQR) is AOE, so can do significantly more than that, depending on positioning. Also, that this is longer than normal engagement.

Over 8s;
AA: 3720
Trinity: 750
Passive: 447
Q: 590
W: ignored
E: 608 (plus armor shred)
R: 2648
Total: 8763

As AOE, while this is pretty good, it still falls a bit behind Trist/Graves/Vayne unless you hit 2 people with Q and R, which is... actually pretty easy. I suspect if I replace the Manamune with a BC, and actually do the armor reduction calculations, Corki will come out much further ahead.

The other thing is that Corki is at his most disgusting in midgame. If I have Sheen/Phage/2 dorans/boots while my opponent has BF/Pickaxe/Phage/2 dorans/boots, I will CRUSH him.

[Lix Lorn]

I can play dominion now! And I won a game! ^_^

[Math_Mage]

I'd like to know what builds are currently viable on Teemo and how to play him in teamfights so that I don't die so easily. (I think it may also have to do with the fact that Teemo's existence is like an auto-taunt to many people. WHY DO THEY WANT TO KILL HIM HE'S TOO FLUFFY.)


Well the first thing's first, you need to open the game by saying something related to the skin you're using. When I'm using Cottontail Teemo, I like to say "I'm late, I'm late, for a very important date!", Astronaut Teemo is "One small hop for Yordle, one giant bounce for Yordlekind." and Super Teemo is "For justice, and the Bandle City way!" This is important because how else are you going to drill it into your opponent that you have not only got multiple Teemo skins, but you spend time thinking about them?

Anyway, now that's out of the way you probably want to start yourself off with Cloth Armour + 5 health potions. I know what you're thinking, and boots just isn't an important start on Teemo. Move Quick + Move Quints + Quickness in Utility is actually more than enough speed until you've finished your entire Wriggle's Lantern (which incidentally is your first item). After that, I like to pick up my boots 2 (I have a soft spot for Moots of Bobility on Teemo, but they're really unnecessary, you can grab Sorc Shoes for offense, Treads/Tabi for defense, Stompers if you really want to, though I'd recommend against Zerkers because a] they're ugly and b] you get tons of attack speed from the rest of the build). You can actually "pull a Janna" and not bother with boots 2 for a while if you want and go straight into your Wit's End. I cannot stress how absurdly good Wit's End is. Get one. Get a Wit's End. After that I like Phage.

So basically, your core is three megacheap, really good items, Wriggle's, Wit's End and Phage. After that you can either (in order of priority):
1. Start work on Madred's Bloodrazor
2. Finish off Frozen Mallet
3. Defenses. With a Mallet, I like to get Force of Nature or Atma's, and with being Teemo I like to get a Guardian Angel. For more offensive MR, both Abyssal Sceptre and Hexdrinker work.
4. Build a Malady, it's silly and niche, but it's a cheap way of increasing your damage output
5. Build something which'll give you way more damage, Infinity Edge, Bloodthirster or maybe Black Cleaver.

Sometimes if it gets to really late on and I've finished my build, I'll sell the Wriggle's for a Bloodthirster, just for more sustain.

On Dominion, it's basically Boots + Pickaxe to start, going into Kitae's Bloodrazor, Wit's End, with an Entropy or Mallet depending on what you need.

The runes I use are attack speed marks and seals, with CDR glyphs and movespeed quints. I also pick up 21 in offense (though I avoid things that aren't going to be particularly useful for an onhit mostly magic damage build, like the armour pen and extra crit damage) with 9 in utility.

Looks like you got ninja'd. :smallcool:

[sucatraps]

People keep asking for Teemo builds, and people keep just linking back to Dogmantra's post. Do people actually read every post in the thread, or just the last page?

[Daverin]

@Arb, I know there are definitely viable replacements for Manamune on Corki that contribute more damage, so... yeah. You definitely should also include calculations that replace it with some other item that does more damage or at least has some nice bonus, such as BC.

Overall, I feel like Corki is one of the most... reliable? AD carries in the games. Valkyrie works quite well, and he is one of the best pokers amongst the carries. That, and he can last hit incredibly well thanks to his passive. Add on great AoE damage... well, he does well.

Of course, it does feel like the ranged carries are pretty close in terms of viability nowadays (didn't someone else like mention this in the previous thread, too? If so, definitely agree.) Each excels at a role, and some comps prefer different carries, but perhaps with the exception of Miss Fortune, you can easily find a place for each champ and not feel like you have gimped yourself.

[Dogmantra]

Blitzcrank? Teemo?

Who am I and why do I suddenly have a British accent and an urge to make MS Paint tutorials of awesome champions?
You made both me and my compatriot laugh heartily good fellow.


I'd like to know what builds are currently viable on Teemo and how to play him in teamfights so that I don't die so easily. (I think it may also have to do with the fact that Teemo's existence is like an auto-taunt to many people. WHY DO THEY WANT TO KILL HIM HE'S TOO FLUFFY.)
See abov-


Looks like you got ninja'd. :smallcool:
Yordl'd 8)


People keep asking for Teemo builds, and people keep just linking back to Dogmantra's post. Do people actually read every post in the thread, or just the last page?
Careful, or I'll make a paint Teemo guide. AND I DON'T THINK ANYONE WANTS THAT.


@Arb, I know there are definitely viable replacements for Manamune on Corki that contribute more damage, so... yeah. You definitely should also include calculations that replace it with some other item that does more damage or at least has some nice bonus, such as BC.
Unless it's been corrected, I believe the reason he's including Manamune is because bonus damage from Manamune adds to your base damage, meaning it's multiplied by Triforce.

[Lix Lorn]

Careful, or I'll make a paint Teemo guide. AND I DON'T THINK ANYONE WANTS THAT.
mantra doesn't think I'm a person :smallfrown:

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Careful, or I'll make a paint Teemo guide. AND I DON'T THINK ANYONE WANTS THAT.


Unless it's been corrected, I believe the reason he's including Manamune is because bonus damage from Manamune adds to your base damage, meaning it's multiplied by Triforce.

EVERYONE WANTS THAT.

And I think it was changed, since I recall that coming up in another thread. Don't have a source, though.

[Morph Bark]

People keep asking for Teemo builds, and people keep just linking back to Dogmantra's post. Do people actually read every post in the thread, or just the last page?

Every time I check back on this thread there are a few more pages. Of course I don't.

The build Dog posted is aimed at an on-hit Teemo, which is one way to build him. What about the shroom-spammer? That one wants CDR, since the recharger is also affected by CDR. Hence why I asked for builds, not the build, as I like to mix things up depending on the situation and the team comps.

Also, other than the mention Guardian Angel, the "how do I survive/participate in teamfights" part wasn't addressed either. :/ Other than "blind autoattacker", I never got much further since I always got focused.

[Arbitrarity]

Actually, I totally forgot that. I used it because I was being silly. If we include manamune 2% in base AD, you get an extra 50% damage from trinity procs in both cases, plus passive, bringing him up another 400 damage in 8s....


All right, fine. We'll go with the HARD MODE math. Give me half an hour.


Hypothetical targets for lategame:

Squishy: 100 armor, 60 MR, 2k hp
Off-tank: 150 armor, 125 MR, 2.75k hp
Tank: 200 armor, 200 MR, 3.5k hp

8s duration only, because 20s is pretty damn useless. Single target damage. Assuming Graves gets 3 hit buckshot.
Corki builds BC/BT/Trinity
Everyone else builds IE/BT/PD/2 dorans (did I forget these on Corki? OOPS. AND runes. KILL ME)/Zerkers, unless Dogmantra has a similar cost recommendation for Ezreal. 21/0/9 getting crit mastery, disregarding Havoc and Executioner. Using pure arpen on Corki, everyone else gets AD quints, arpen reds. Caitlyn is not in the bush, Vayne pins targets, Ezreal magically starts with full stacks from constant poking or something. Twitch pops out of stealth with full duration. Abilities are assumed to be instant cast (and so AA resets are used perfectly), except Living Artillery (which we disregard), and Tumble (which we treat as not resetting autoattacks, due to animation time), Bullet Time (depending on total, may not be included as it may be net dps loss against one target), and Trueshot Barrage (which will be accounted for if it's better)

210 bonus AD (188 on Corki), 1.944 crit mult (1.209 for Corki), 84% bonus AS from runes/masteries (89% for Corki), 21 arpen (31 on Corki) (+10% mastery)

Hopefully this is sufficiently definitive, though I can expand if needed.

General formula for base AA dps: (listed AD+210)*1.944*base AS*1+((AS% per level + 84)/100). Corki is different, obviously.
I'll be blackboxing how steroid damage gets calculated, but I can show it, if you want. Not difficult.


Oh god misformatted table. This could take a LONG time. Time for excel.

[Daverin]

It does not; actually, looking at a post that disproves it, it was in fact SweetRein who did the testing! But, yeah, found it was not adding to base damage at all. So, no, don't add that.

Source: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/archive/index.php/t-879534.html

[Temotei]

Every time I check back on this thread there are a few more pages. Of course I don't.

The build Dog posted is aimed at an on-hit Teemo, which is one way to build him. What about the shroom-spammer? That one wants CDR, since the recharger is also affected by CDR. Hence why I asked for builds, not the build, as I like to mix things up depending on the situation and the team comps.

Also, other than the mention Guardian Angel, the "how do I survive/participate in teamfights" part wasn't addressed either. :/ Other than "blind autoattacker", I never got much further since I always got focused.

When I get focused (which is often), I tend to employ the annoying "hit and run" tactic. You probably know how Q resets Teemo's autoattack, eh? Walk in, attack+Q+attack, back off for a few seconds, come back in do it again. You don't necessarily have to hit the same target with every attack or with Q, either. Just aim Q at primary targets and attack whoever is the best target (who is usually the blind-target anyway, but sometimes not).

Of course, then you get GA and you are INVINCIBLE FOREVER.

[Mirrinus]

Please tell me: how's Udyr right now? I've been looking for a champ that can do both jungle and solo top, and the manbeartigerphoenixturtle is someone that I have my eye on right now. What else can you tell me about him?

[Daverin]

Awesomeness, plus a side of win. And several animals. At any rate, Udyr is a great champ right now. His jungle is... well, you've probably heard of his jungle. If not, he is one of the best right now. Stonewall considers him and Skarner to define the god tier of junglers.

Meanwhile, solo top, I find he still is ridiculously good at not dying. He is an extremely difficult to kill champ by sheer virtue of his kit, and he can quickly turn trades around with tiger and bear. Honestly, the best counters to Udyr aren't so much to kill him; it is to give him a dose of his own medicine with highly sustainable champs who happen to scale much better, such as Nasus. Just to give an idea, I went up against a Yorick and felt bad for how much nothing he could do to me.

As for builds... boots. The only definite article. Otherwise, he can build around offtanking, his tiger stance, or his phoenix stance (in general, lane=tiger, though. In jungle phoenix is more common, I think, and defines the whole aoe to clear jungle thing, but as I understand it you will still make it through without too trouble with tiger.) Tiger DPS and offtank, both in lane and in jungle, loves Wriggles, and a Spirit Visage is an excellent cheap item which, with Wriggles, makes his sustain on hit rather ridiculous. Although I have had disagreement with this, I don't see why you wouldn't consider Trinity a good item on him, giving him a great variety of stats and you can easily proc the sheen passive, which is good on him since he has a very good base damage and scale; tiger stance in particular loves it, since it runs off of base damage. General rule of thumb is tiger dps needs very little AS, since the stance and his passive gives so much, while phoenix stance loves it, since the more hits he gets off, the more he procs phoenix. He can atmogs quite well, although I would probably go atmallet instead if you don't get trinity force (admittedly, that probably was the biggest reason I would just not go trinity, since Udyr would rather like being able to stick to a target. Bear is more of a disruptor and a useful clutch stun than it is a really hugging mechanism.) In general, keep in mind that Udyr's shield and steal is actually a rather nice chunk of effective health, especially if an engagement is getting dragged on. As such, he favors mitigation over more health.

Overall though, I love Udyr. He is competent at all stages of the game, he is incredibly versatile, and his kit is one of the best in terms of stuff it can do without farm. Which kind of balances his weakness, which is he can be kited quite well, a very dangerous one to have for anybody in this game. Still, Udyr isn't quite helpless, and he can at least stick around a teamfight without too much trouble.

[Dralnu]

Every time I check back on this thread there are a few more pages. Of course I don't.

The build Dog posted is aimed at an on-hit Teemo, which is one way to build him. What about the shroom-spammer? That one wants CDR, since the recharger is also affected by CDR. Hence why I asked for builds, not the build, as I like to mix things up depending on the situation and the team comps.

Also, other than the mention Guardian Angel, the "how do I survive/participate in teamfights" part wasn't addressed either. :/ Other than "blind autoattacker", I never got much further since I always got focused.

Attack speed Teemo can easily be a shroom spammer. 21/9/0, flat CDR blues, Nashor's Tooth, you have 36.85% CDR. Swap to scaling CDR to hit the cap if you really want it, but IMO flat CDR is stronger because the scaling only surpasses it after level 13 or so. You can also rush the CDR cap with AP, even AD (though that's harder). Mix and match with what you like (Shurelia's, Morello's, etc). Check out this site. (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Cooldown_reduction)

How to not die: Flash is a must. Cleanse can help. Try to enter team fights with at least 1 shroom up your sleeve. Wait until the fight actually commences before entering. Attack what's close to you, don't wade into a fight to reach someone in the back. Drop a shroom in front of you while you pewpew. If a wild Tryn shows up on you, he hits your shroom, you've got a blind still, and hopefully flash /cleanse. That's very favorable.

[Mtg_player_zach]

I made a few revisions to my guide: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12409551&postcount=575

Mostly small stuff. Added an entry for Karthus and an entry for Udyr (just a link for udyr).

[Dogmantra]

mantra doesn't think I'm a person :smallfrown:
Don't be silly you're not a person you're the embodiment of pretty :)


EVERYONE WANTS THAT.
You're not the boss of me!


The build Dog posted is aimed at an on-hit Teemo, which is one way to build him. What about the shroom-spammer? That one wants CDR, since the recharger is also affected by CDR. Hence why I asked for builds, not the build, as I like to mix things up depending on the situation and the team comps.

Also, other than the mention Guardian Angel, the "how do I survive/participate in teamfights" part wasn't addressed either. :/ Other than "blind autoattacker", I never got much further since I always got focused.
Thing is, CDR spammer of shrooms relies on your opponents walking into trap, it's like Singed, effective against people who aren't really mega co-ordinated. The other thing is that megaspam Teemo uses a lot more mana to be effective than onhit Teemo. What I'd probably do though is rush yourself a Deathcap, mega useful. To be honest, if you're going AP/Spammy, you possibly don't even want attack speed, hitting with a Blinding Dart then one Toxic Shot DoT will be your main source of damage, it's a much skirmishier build, so I'd probably pick up Morello's for CDR. After that... Um, more Hats? Hourglass is situationally useful given your teamcomp (i.e. if you've got guys who can save you then you can grab one otherwise the active will probably be a waste), Shurelia's is fantastic because a) it gives you even more kiteyness (and staying just far enough in range to be attractive and far enough away to be safe is a big thing for this kind of Teemo and the Fluffy Yordle in general) and b) it's forking Shurelia's. Similarly, QSS is useful. Gunblade might not actually be horrible, giving you the active for a bit more burst, and actually now I think about it, Deathfire is possibly better than Morello's because it gives you more than one reliable damage spell. I'd try to get some defenses in there too, 'cause you're going to want an Oracle's to remove vision wards.

As for general Teemo playstyles, he revolves around not getting hit, and you do that by not caring and attacking the closest person, it doesn't matter if it's the tank or the carry, you attack the person who keeps you furthest away from the action (EXCEPTION: if there are allies between you who are keeping you safe). If you're fighting where you haven't set up a safe area nearby, you're doing it wrong, and you should probably retreat. If you have set up a safe area, if you start winning and pushing your opponent back, then you are free to chase (Teemo is a great chaser), if they start to beat you, just retreat and stutter step while retreating, poking them and leading them into a shroom. If they give up, chase after, you can get quite the Yakety Sax moment going. If they keep running, lead them into your next shroom until they give up or die.

For summoners, Flash/Ghost. Always Flash/Ghost. Flash is your final "OH BUGGER" button, and Ghost is either your backup one of those or it's your chasing/getting away but not as urgently button. I've seen good uses of Teleport, Heal and Exhaust on Teemo, but none as good as the ol' standby of Flash/Ghost.

[Lix Lorn]

Don't be silly you're not a person you're the embodiment of pretty :)
:redface:
am not.

[Morph Bark]

Thanks, that helps some. Will prolly get some ragers on my tail due to not focusing a squishy, but eh, I got ragers anyway when I played Teemo all the time.

I think this (http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Teemo/?items=17,21,38,44,83,108&runes=64,64,64,64,64,64,64,64,64,63,63,63,63,63,63 ,63,63,63,52,52,52,52,52,52,52,52,52,102,102,102&masteries=0130441011003020100000000000000001300400 001000000&level=18) will be my general build, unless they got HP tanks, then I will most likely go Madred's + 2 PDs and then stuff.

I used to always take Teleport on Teemo for the backdooring (this was also prior to discovering the usefulness of Flash, mostly because in the beginning I just did not have access to it), but that is better on an AS/AD Teemo, which is a possible build, but not one of the more optimal ones. Instead, I will urge a strong AD damage dealer to take Teleport, which a solo top might want to have anyway.


EDIT: That build is also assuming I don't need any many defenses. If I die a little too much, of course I'll get a Guardian Angel. :smalltongue:

[tribble]

Eh, arb, you don't need to do all that math. I just was thinking it would be amusing if corki's passive meant he was actually doing more true damage than vayne, and he isn't.

[Dogmantra]

will be my general build, unless they got HP tanks, then I will most likely go Madred's + 2 PDs and then stuff.

If you don't have lots of AD, it'd be better to grab yourself a Wit's End rather than a Phantom Dancer, similar attack speed, but no wasted crit, and you get the bonus on hit damage.

[Morph Bark]

If you don't have lots of AD, it'd be better to grab yourself a Wit's End rather than a Phantom Dancer, similar attack speed, but no wasted crit, and you get the bonus on hit damage.

Good point. PDs are only really to be built if you were focusing on AD/AS from the get-go. The movement speed is incredibly handy though, but half the time it's only to get away as when they are in a team you don't want to go anywhere near them except to kite and you're still squishy and far from a good AD duelist, so 1v1ing anyone tends to be a bad idea.

Unless you're stealthed of course and they're either low on mana or health. Then it's time to "duel". >8)

[Dogmantra]

Unless you're stealthed of course and they're either low on mana or health. Then it's time to "duel". >8)

Reminds me of a hilarious Teemo moment a couple of days ago. I was Purple Team, by the Blue tower in bottom lane, the second one in, and I was overextended. I jumped into the bush and stealthed before Talon and one other could get me. I think they assumed I ported. Talon stood in the bush for a while, thinking I'd unstealth (stupidly not throwing Rakes). He left the bush for pretty much exactly three seconds, to try to trick me. Guess whose passive works while porting again?

I laughed. A lot.

[Terribad]

I think there were a few Swain players 'round these parts... what Masteries and rune setups do y'all run on him?

I fell out of love with Swain after I got Cass because Swain's AA animation is so bad. I usually play him as an AP solo top and build him tanky (similar to Rumble but with Mana)

Masteries I went 9/21/0
Runes: MPen Reds, Mana/Lvl Seals, CDR/Lvl Blues, AP Quints

[Morph Bark]

Reminds me of a hilarious Teemo moment a couple of days ago. I was Purple Team, by the Blue tower in bottom lane, the second one in, and I was overextended. I jumped into the bush and stealthed before Talon and one other could get me. I think they assumed I ported. Talon stood in the bush for a while, thinking I'd unstealth (stupidly not throwing Rakes). He left the bush for pretty much exactly three seconds, to try to trick me. Guess whose passive works while porting again?

I laughed. A lot.

Those are the best moments. It's also why I especially love fighting against AA champs that don't have any AoE or skillshots. Half the time I ended up stealthing and getting one thrown in my face. :smallfrown:

The backdoor moments were epic though. I played Teemo a few months back again after not playing him for half a year, backdoored, got a turret and two inhibitors, then ran away, criss-crossing their jungle while being chased by one their Garen, then ran into their AD carry in the jungle, blinded him, kept going, then finally ran into one of theirs that had a slow and got killed.

I shouted in the chat against my killers "I REGRET NOTHING!"


I have since vowed to make that my Teemo battlecry.