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The Troubadour
2012-01-03, 11:26 AM
So, again, exactly as the title says. The way AC "scales" bothers me a lot - particularly since I like very low-magic campaigns. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with it in as smooth a way as possible? Is the Defense Bonus variant rule from "Unearthed Arcana" any good?

NeoSeraphi
2012-01-03, 11:35 AM
If you want AC to scale, I suggest you take a look at the way 4.E does it. IIRC, they give an untyped bonus to AC equal to 1/2 your character level for all classes. A free +10 to AC certainly does help even the playing field at level 20.

Circle of Life
2012-01-03, 11:37 AM
Personally, this is my easy fix for AC scaling.

Shields heavier than bucklers add 1/2 the wielder's BAB to their bonus, and their shield bonus becomes a deflection bonus to AC. Bucklers remain unchanged. Animated shields do not exist.

The Troubadour
2012-01-03, 01:52 PM
A free +10 to AC certainly does help even the playing field at level 20.

Hmmm... So a 20th-level Fighter, DEX 12, wearing a full plate and bearing a heavy shield, would have AC 31... Another 20th-level Fighter, STR 20, Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, would have an attack bonus of +27...
I like it! At least, it replaces the need for enhancement bonuses to armor/shield, and rings of protection will actually be quite powerful. Interesting.



Personally, this is my easy fix for AC scaling.

I like the idea of basing the additional bonus off of BAB, but by limiting it to only when bearing a heavy shield, you're restricting it basically to Fighters, Paladins and Clerics.

Circle of Life
2012-01-03, 01:54 PM
I like the idea of basing the additional bonus off of BAB, but by limiting it to only when bearing a heavy shield, you're restricting it basically to Fighters, Paladins and Clerics.

Who said anything about only heavy shields? It applies to light, tower, extreme...

Any class without access to shield proficiency can already buff their AC to high heavens if they want to.

Well, except monk. Monk doesn't count.

Yitzi
2012-01-03, 03:04 PM
Well, except monk. Monk doesn't count.

Although monk/wizard/duelist is a pretty good way to buff AC up to insane levels.

NeoSeraphi
2012-01-03, 03:13 PM
Although monk/wizard/duelist is a pretty good way to buff AC up to insane levels.

Not really. Monks don't need Int, wizards don't need Wisdom, and if you're staying in duelist long enough to get the benefits of Canny Defense (which is limited to class level), you really won't see much benefit from wizard. (A build would look like wizard 4/monk 6/duelist 10 and it would give you up to +10 from duelist if you have 30 Int, and if you have 30 Int you probably don't have more than 14 Dex/Wis, and then you're not getting anything from your wizard levels, save mage armor and shield)

Total AC, if you use your spells is around 33, but you can't do anything else, since you only have 2nd level spells, maybe Improved Grapple and Improved Trip from monk but no Strength to use it, and an extra +2d6 damage on your rolls. Better to have a decent offense than a decent defense

Yitzi
2012-01-03, 04:08 PM
Not really. Monks don't need Int, wizards don't need Wisdom, and if you're staying in duelist long enough to get the benefits of Canny Defense (which is limited to class level), you really won't see much benefit from wizard.

Oh,no question that you don't get that much ability synergy (DEX to attack and AC is pretty much it), but 2 levels of wizard is plenty for Mage Armor and Shield, and maybe even Alter Self (troglodyte) through a scroll, plus some basic defenses (PfE, Resist Energy), a couple of levels of monk give you a decent AC bonus (since you're going unarmored anyway; for high-wealth games that can be replaced by a Monk's Belt) and Evasion, plus Deflect Arrows and the skills for Duelist entry, and of course Duelist gives canny defense and at higher levels Elaborate Parry.


A build would look like wizard 4/monk 6/duelist 10

Yeah, that's pretty pathetic. But as I said, wizard 2 and monk 2 is plenty for the purpose (especially if you go domain abjurer to boost shield duration for longer fights), so you can spend the others on full BAB classes so your offense doesn't suffer too much. (I favor 1 ranger or paladin so you can use a wand of CLW, 2 barbarian for speed and uncanny dodge, and 1 fighter because the extra feat could be useful.)


and it would give you up to +10 from duelist if you have 30 Int, and if you have 30 Int you probably don't have more than 14 Dex/Wis, and then you're not getting anything from your wizard levels, save mage armor and shield)

30 INT is a waste; the build's primary ability is DEX. More likely at level 20 would be (assuming fire elf or gray elf) 34 or 36 DEX (depending on whether it's a high point-buy or low; this works a lot better with high), 22 or 24 INT, and 20 or 22 WIS, for +23 AC straight from ability scores. Then add in Shield and bracers of armor (at that point, +4 mage armor simply isn't enough), some source (permanent items or maybe potions) of natural armor and deflection, Elaborate Parry, and possibly even Combat Expertise if fighting a low-AC enemy, and your AC will be quite high.
Of course, it does make for a somewhat defensively-oriented build, so you want the other party members (this was originally designed as a solo build for the Core Coliseum, where they aren't an issue) to be similarly defensive builds so that the enemy can't take out the more vulnerable party members first. Fortunately, there do exist plenty of defensive builds.

Total AC, if you use your spells is around 33, but you can't do anything else, since you only have 2nd level spells, maybe Improved Grapple and Improved Trip from monk but no Strength to use it, and an extra +2d6 damage on your rolls. Better to have a decent offense than a decent defense[/QUOTE]

Morcleon
2012-01-03, 06:31 PM
Fist of the Forest: Con to AC
Carmendine Monk: Int to AC
Swordsage: Wis to AC
Battledancer: Cha to AC

Just my two cp... :D