Building a Fluffy Fighter.

[missmvicious]

For a fun one-up campaign, we're building townie PCs. We all agreed to go with WoTC fluff, following the backstory inherent in the PHB rather than going with our own... sort of an acting exercise to help us think outside of our typecasts.

I figured... hey. I never build fighters. Girls can kick butt too! It'll be fun. :smallamused:

Rules are, we have to play a character we've never played before. We're each given an Elite Array to build off of, and it has to be true to the books fluff. No multi-classing.

But now, I'm getting a bit frustrated. Is this why no one wants to be the tank? I'm looking at the fluff (abridged form):

Fluff:
Fighters come to their PROFESSION in many ways. Most have had formal training in a noble's (Know: Nobility?) army or at least in the local (Know: Local) militia. Some have trained in formal academies. Others are self-taught--unpolished but well tested. A fighter may have taken up the sword as a way to escape the limits of life on the farm (same skill sets as Commoner: Handle Animal, Profession, Craft) or he may be following a proud family tradition... Fighters who are not actively adventuring may be soldiers, guards, bodyguards, champions, or criminal enforcers (Profession).

So, I started taking notes and seeing how often the skill sets line up with Abilities:

Skill Sets and Frequency:
STR iii (Climb, Jump, Swim)
DEX i (Ride
CON
INT i (Craft)
WIS
CHA ii (Handle Animal, Intimidate)

What? Climb, Jump and Swim? Ok... Handle Animal and Intimidate I get, but that makes CHA a Fighter's most frequently used skill set in town, and it says in the book you're supposed to build a Fighter with good STR and CON. Why would a sheriff or bodyguard be great at Climbing, Jumping, Swimming or ... CRAFTING?! What's that even doing in there?!

I wanted to create this:

Fighter Build Ability Scores: STR and CON, pg. 38 PHB-- Elite Array
15 STR
14 CON
13 CHA
12 INT
10 WIS
8 DEX

A build like this seems logical, and wouldn't be a bad build for a PC, but once you look at the fluff, you realize it's inappropriate for a city-dwelling Fighter. He's weak in all the skills that he would, fluff-wise, be well practiced in if he were a soldier, guard, bodyguard, champion, or criminal enforcer. To boost Profession, Spot, Listen, Intimidate, and Knowledge:Local/Nobility (all appropriate skill sets for someone who performs any of the aforementioned jobs, you'd have to have high INT and WIS, which are nearly dump stats for the build. But all Knowledge checks are a cross-class skill for a fighter, so I guess you could still dump INT, because the only fluff relevant class skill he gets is Craft.

So, then I'm thinking:

15 WIS (For Profession, Spot, Listen)
14 CHA (For Intimidate, Handle Animal: Guards could ride horses)
13 STR (For good attacks. Because training Climb, Jump, and Swim sounds more like something an adventurer would do.)
12 CON (For HP)
10 DEX (At least no AC penalty.)
8 INT (Because name a cop, bodyguard, or detective, besides MacGuyver, who is a brilliant crafter.)

But that, in a totally different way, breaks fluff, because now his STR and CON are only meh. I'd probably use this build for a Rogue or Ranger... not a Fighter, and once again, Profession is a cross-class skill so it technically breaks fluff. But it isn't fluff appropriate if she's not a career soldier, bodyguard or the like.

Idk... what do you think? Where do the points go with the Ability Scores?

[sonofzeal]

You're welcome! (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug)

[NOhara24]

I really feel like you're thinking too much into it. The PHB gives multiple possible back stories for a fighter, you don't have to try to adhere to all of them. Pick one, and then allot your stats as necessary. The fighter is such an open-ended class as well, so basically as long as your character falls in line with the "beatstick" mentality, you'd line up with the fluff.

The bodyguard/ex-infantryman:

CHA and INT are you dump stats. Prioritize STR, CON, DEX and WIS, in that order.

[Rubik]

The fighter fluff in the PHB is crap. Fighters can't do a quarter of the things the fluff says they can. Skip Williams and his ilk say fighters are party leaders 'because they're in front'. And yet every other class in the PHB is better at leading than they are from a mechanical standpoint. Only some of the NPC classes are worse at it.

Fighter is a terrible class, and your best bet with what you're trying to do is make a half-orc fighter whose only way of trying to do things is to hit them (since that's 95% of all that a core fighter can do reasonably well).

[Slipperychicken]

1. "formal training in a noble's army". 1 cross-class rank in Know: (Nobility) could cover that, depending on how ignorant your fighter is. You aren't a farmer any more, you could have "gotten rusty", reducing the number of skillpoints you need to put in related skills. Your STR score should be high enough that you don't need points in climb or jump. A grappling hook and some rope, and STR bonus should cover your climbing needs anyway. Fighters are bad at crafting, so it would make sense not to do it. There are rules for using STR for Intimidate anyhow, so if you can swing that, CHA gets even more useless.

2. Hirelings receive pay according to the hirelings table on DMG 105, no profession roll required. It should be (6 + (3*level)) silver per day. PC-classed characters receive double pay, I think, because they're stronger. "Hazardous conditions" approximately doubles that. In hazardous conditions it should be about (4*(6 + (3*level))) silver per day.

3. STR>CON>DEX>WIS>INT>CHA. STR is essential, unless you're using another score for damage/tohit. CON and DEX are 2nd and 3rd highest, respectively. WIS doesn't help you do your job, but does help your will save. INT and CHA are of very little use to a Fighter. Tanks are usually referred to as "big stupid fighters" for a reason.



Personally, I would suggest playing one of the ToB classes (Since you want to be a tank, Crusader is a great choice) instead, because they can tank better than the fighter, have more skillpoints for fluff items, and have a better skill list. I consider Tome of Battle an apology for how bad the core noncasting classes (monk, fighter, barbarian) are at their jobs.

[dgnslyr]

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss INT, because one of the few good options available to fighters, tripping, requires a modest intelligence score of 13. I'd put it above wisdom, because while one point of wisdom might not make a huge difference to the mighty wizard, it makes all the difference when picking feats.

[Coidzor]

Fluffy fighter, you say? Well, you really shouldn't get an LA for being an awakened Dog or Riding Dog, but check with your DM. And if at all possible, get him to rule that you get the BAB of a magical beast with those racial HD you'll be saddled with.

You're going to be rather limited in what you can do, at least at first, and probably would have to start off as a charger, since even with unarmed strike, it's several levels until you can take superior unarmed strike and snap kick in order to get a proper number of attacks and otherwise you've only got the one attack with the bite so you'll wanna make it count.

Gloves that give claw attacks and the Horned Helmet from the MIC that gives a gore attack will be priorities if you build up unarmed strike due to not starting at high enough ECL to afford the effective +2 magic weapon you want.

There's a couple of weapons that you can wield in your mouth but they mostly are terribad from what I recall, though I can't actually recall their sources, I think maybe Races of the Dragon for the thing that is a mouthpick. At least, until you can afford to get a +1 Mouthpick(weapon property from Lords of Madness, Beholder section[?]) weapon.

After that you're basically looking at any other charger or battlefield control build since you'll want to grab the best weapon you can get, since Mouthpick confers proficiency with the weapon, so you could have something really exotic like a Kaorti Resin Spiked Chain and be auto-proficient or a Kaorti Resin Elven Courtblade or what have you.

Handle Animal is probably the best skill and probably the best skill for squicking out your party members, as leader of your own pack of warbeast dire wolves and such.

[Thurbane]

Fluffy fighter, you say? Well, you really shouldn't get an LA for being an awakened Dog or Riding Dog, but check with your DM. And if at all possible, get him to rule that you get the BAB of a magical beast with those racial HD you'll be saddled with.
If he wants to be that kind of fluffy fighter, I'd recommend Lupin or Hadozee :smalltongue:

[Greenish]

If he wants to be that kind of fluffy fighter, I'd recommend Lupin or Hadozee :smalltongue:Proper fluffy, you want an anthropomorphic sheep.

[Thurbane]

Proper fluffy, you want an anthropomorphic sheep.
Is Goatfolk close enough? :smallbiggrin:

[Greenish]

Is Goatfolk close enough? :smallbiggrin:Not quite fluffy enough. Now, yakfolk might do in a pinch.

[Heatwizard]

15 STR
13 DEX
14 CON
12 INT
10 WIS
8 CHA

Able Learner as one of your first level feats will let you buy ranks for one point, though your limit on ranks you can buy will be half as low. But you can invest two in a handful of knowledges and Spot/Listen.

You don't need Handle Animal to ride stuff, though; that's Ride, and it's dex-based.

[missmvicious]

Fluffy fighter, you say?

You, sir, are silly. :smallsmile:

[missmvicious]

You're welcome! (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug)

I like where you are going with this. It looks like the variant is more loyal to the PHB fluff than the PHB version. It wouldn't be good for a sherrif/guard or a champion, but for mercenaries, detectives, street thugs (obviously) and the rest of the townie Fighter types, it sounds perfect. I wouldn't have thought of thug as a Fighter. I always thought that was the domain of Rogue or Warrior.

And... thank you. :smallamused:


NOhara24 and Rubik, you're right. It seems like they intended the Fighter to fit any character with a weapon that doesn't fit into any other class. Perhaps I should pick a backstory first.

All said, I think I know how to build it now. Thank you all, for the help. :smallbiggrin:

[Coidzor]

You, sir, are silly. :smallsmile:

Rest of your group would not soon forget the Lord's Hound of Death becoming awakened and going on adventures. :smallwink: And think of all of the roleplaying hooks.

[Psyren]

While you're at it, why not a fluffy Monk?

http://www.russellmoore.com/files/2011/06/kung_fu_panda_2.jpg

[missmvicious]

While you're at it, why not a fluffy Monk?

http://www.russellmoore.com/files/2011/06/kung_fu_panda_2.jpg

God, that is cute. Now I want to create a campaign just for adorable, fluffy warriors.

Their guild shall be named:
The Adventurfurs!

or maybe
The Adorablasters!

I'd take "Fur Fighters", but Dreamcast took that one already.

[Draz74]

One of the things about 3e that WotC was really slow about catching onto is that cross-class skills are horribly, horribly gimped. The Fighter fluff in the PHB was written from the perspective that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Fighter spending her pathetic quantity of skill points on cross-class ranks in Know(local), Spot, Listen, Know(engineering), Sense Motive, and many more.

(Admittedly, I've been known to defy popular opinion, arguing that many of these skills should still be cross-class for a Fighter. But what really needs to change is that cross-classing needs to not suck so much in general.)

[KillianHawkeye]

One of the things about 3e that WotC was really slow about catching onto is that cross-class skills are horribly, horribly gimped. The Fighter fluff in the PHB was written from the perspective that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Fighter spending her pathetic quantity of skill points on cross-class ranks in Know(local), Spot, Listen, Know(engineering), Sense Motive, and many more.

(Admittedly, I've been known to defy popular opinion, arguing that many of these skills should still be cross-class for a Fighter. But what really needs to change is that cross-classing needs to not suck so much in general.)

Cross-classing wouldn't be a problem if these non-Int classes got a decent amount of skill points. Without an Int bonus or bonus from being Human, a Fighter's 2 skill points per level will only get him one cross-class skill rank!

[Rubik]

Cross-classing wouldn't be a problem if these non-Int classes got a decent amount of skill points. Without an Int bonus or bonus from being Human, a Fighter's 2 skill points per level will only get him one cross-class skill rank!Assuming no Int penalty, and since fighters only need Int for one feat (as a prereq), well...

[Draz74]

Cross-classing wouldn't be a problem if these non-Int classes got a decent amount of skill points. Without an Int bonus or bonus from being Human, a Fighter's 2 skill points per level will only get him one cross-class skill rank!

No, cross-classing still sucks. Even for Rogues, it's terrible.

[Coidzor]

No, cross-classing still sucks. Even for Rogues, it's terrible.

Even adopting the Pathfinder skill system without consolidating the skills would be better. Then you're just cap-3 at a 1:1 rate rather than cap/2 at a 2:1 rate.

[Hunter Noventa]

Fighters should really get 4 skill points in 3.x instead of 2.

[Rubik]

Fighters should really get 4 6 skill points in 3.x instead of 2, and a much much much better skill list.FTFY. They dump Int. They need all the help they can get.

[Gavinfoxx]

God, that is cute. Now I want to create a campaign just for adorable, fluffy warriors.

Their guild shall be named:
The Adventurfurs!

or maybe
The Adorablasters!

I'd take "Fur Fighters", but Dreamcast took that one already.

Just... go buy Ironclaw?


http://www.sanguine.com/images/covers/SGP1101_cover.jpg

Or maybe Jadeclaw?

http://www.sanguine.com/images/covers/SGP2101_cover.jpg

[ericgrau]

Int 13 tripper human? Comes with a bit of skill points.

Though I don't think skills are the main source of fluff. Put 1 rank in profession if that and do the rest in your back-story. A little skills to make things different and interesting, yeah ok.