[3.5] Blade Guardian and Awaken Construct

[Thurbane]

I'm curious - if you cast Awaken Construct on a Blade Guardian improved familiar (CW, p.120), would it still be able to serve as a familiar?

Unlike animal companions, I can't find any text saying that altering a familiars Intelligence score would affect it's ability to serve as a familiar.

However, this text in Awaken Construct makes me wonder:

The awakened creature is independent of both you and the being who originally made it, though it is initially friendly toward both you and its maker.
So if a Wizard cast Awaken Construct on his Blade Guardian, would that nullify the bond created by Improved Familiar?

Cheers - T

[Tebryn]

I'd say the text of the spell makes it pretty clear. It does so for Druid Companions so why would Familiar's be special cases?

[Thurbane]

I'd say the text of the spell makes it pretty clear. It does so for Druid Companions so why would Familiar's be special cases?
Well, animal companions are a slightly different case, in that anything that changes them from the animal type (like Awaken, which makes them magical beasts) disqualifies them.

Awaken Construct does not change type (and if it did, nothing says that type change affects familiar status), and nothing about familiars says their Intelligence score affects them either. The main sticking point seems to be the text I quoted above.

[Tebryn]

That's true though the main issue, which you pointed out, is the wording. If they have a bond I would deem it severed. Even if you spent a feat on it. The wording seems fairly clear.

[Thurbane]

There is a way around the wording, though.

The wording specifically says "being who originally made it". A Blade Guardian can be manufactured by someone other than the character who gains it as a familiar. So, if the person who casts Awaken Construct and the person who actually built the Blade Guardian are different people than the person it serves as a familiar, that should get around the clause.

Pretty cheesy, but I think it works.

[Urpriest]

Pretty sure you can't have modified creatures as familiars period. Otherwise, why not have a Paragon Pseudonatural Familiar?

[Tebryn]

There is a way around the wording, though.

The wording specifically says "being who originally made it". A Blade Guardian can be manufactured by someone other than the character who gains it as a familiar. So, if the person who casts Awaken Construct and the person who actually built the Blade Guardian are different people than the person it serves as a familiar, that should get around the clause.

Pretty cheesy, but I think it works.

No. Because it doesn't just say "the person who made it".


The awakened creature is independent of both you and the being who originally made it, though it is initially friendly toward both you and its maker.

It says it's independent of both you and who ever made it. It's not "You or" it's "You and". Both parties, the maker and you, don't have control of it after the spell.

[Thurbane]

It says it's independent of both you and who ever made it. It's not "You or" it's "You and". Both parties, the maker and you, don't have control of it after the spell.
Indeed - but (disregarding my initial example of the familiar owner being the one who casts the spell) if the character who has the Guardian as a familiar is neither the caster of Awaken Construct (i.e. "you") nor the "being who originally made it", then there is no conflict.

Pretty sure you can't have modified creatures as familiars period. Otherwise, why not have a Paragon Pseudonatural Familiar?
There are certain PrCs that allow you to modify your familiar (Alienist adds the Pseudonatural template to his familiar; Fiend Blooded adds the Fiendish template to theirs).

Awaken is basically just adding Int, and modifying Wis and Cha. Most (many) Improved Familiars already have decent scores in these abilities to begin with.

[Tebryn]

Indeed - but (disregarding my initial example of the familiar owner being the one who casts the spell) if the character who has the Guardian as a familiar is neither the caster of Awaken Construct (i.e. "you") nor the "being who originally made it", then there is no conflict.

Very true and a possibility I had considered but...see below.


There are certain PrCs that allow you to modify your familiar (Alienist adds the Pseudonatural template to his familiar; Fiend Blooded adds the Fiendish template to theirs).

Awaken is basically just adding Int, and modifying Wis and Cha. Most (many) Improved Familiars already have decent scores in these abilities to begin with.


The PrC's don't -allow- you to alter your familiar, it makes them get the template without question. A template is also not the same as casting Awaken on them...so there's that. One just enhances what they are, the other makes them a sentient entity with it's own thoughts and feelings and ideas. Even if it was allowed, I as a GM would make sure the ramifications were more than played out. Why would a sentient entity who just literally woke up for the first time have any desire to travel with someone who kept it around as a glorified pet?

[Kenneth]

Short answer: Yes

semi long answer: you gave you familair a fully sentient personality and mind, though while initially friendly to you and the creator, that does not mean it is going to remain so.

If you get the cheese way and somehow convince somebody to waste 8 hours of their day and 5K of their hard earned EXP, you have an even worse problem, the familair is now friendly to that person and more than likley PISSED at your for forcing random newly found emotions and feelings its never had before and being betryaed that way sure is not helping your case to somehow keep it as a famialri even though the text does state it is an indepentand creature and so can make up its own independant mind on whetehr or not it wants to kill you. plus sicne you just lost your fimilair you suffer all of those i just lost my familair penalties.

[deuxhero]

Every improved familiar option except Stirge and Shocker Lizard in core has non-animal inteligence anyways, so that isn't an issue.

Worth noting there were 3.0 spells that added templates to your familiar for XP instead of feats, but they explicitly say they apply to them and they only work for your familiar,