pc's used as improvised weapons: how would it work?

[Zoltro]

Hello people. I'm trying to figure out something that sounds really cool but I'm not sure if it will work. I'm building an encounter for a party of 7 lvl 6 characters. I'm thinking of having 1 or 2 giants to pick up members of the party only to be used as improvised weapons against their friends.

A few questions:

Can a Large Monster pick up a medium sized humanoid to equip him as a weapon or should he be at least huge size?

Does the monster have to roll a grapple check every round just to keep his victim (who ofcourse will be resisting) in his hand?

Does the victim have a penalty to attack his "wielder"?

How much damage would the victim and his target friends get with a succesful attack?

I hope you can help me with this topic. Thanks in advance.

Senor Harry

[BIGMamaSloth]

I would say he should roll a grapple check, probably with a minus If he is only using one hand.

I also think a large creature would probably only be able to pick up one with both hands, while huge would probably be able to dual wield your PCs. :smalltongue:

[Ashtagon]

Can a Large Monster pick up a medium sized humanoid to equip him as a weapon or should he be at least huge size?

It's a little unorthodox and not RAW, but it sounds fun.

Does the monster have to roll a grapple check every round just to keep his victim (who ofcourse will be resisting) in his hand?

I'd say yes, grapple checks should be required each round. Also, make sure the encumbrance limits actually allow him to lift the character. Aside from encumbrance, being one size class larger should be sufficient size difference to allow it to work.

Does the victim have a penalty to attack his "wielder"?

Standard grappling restrictions would make sense.

How much damage would the victim and his target friends get with a succesful attack?

Treat him as a thrown object equal to his weight, but halve his effective weight to account for the fact that he isn't quite as hard as a boulder or table is.

[Rossebay]

I don't know if it's the size class that really matters in this case so much as the strength score.

Check their carry weight and all. If their weight fits into 'lift over head', then they can probably swing it around. -4 nonproficiency penalty, as normal. I think a medium-sized creature deals 3d6 damage when used as a weapon (and probably takes that damage as well.) I don't remember exactly where I read the 3d6 part, though.

As a character, I have used NPC's as weapons multiple times (Strength 26 Barbarian), though I imagine it to be scarier on the PC's side.

Grapple Check to grapple, then to pin, then to pick up, I'd imagine. That's what our DM had me do. Or simply grapple check to grapple, then grapple check to lift.

[Urpriest]

I think there are feats for this sort of thing in Races of Stone.

[Flickerdart]

A creature with the Improved Grab ability can grapple with one limb at a -20 penalty (-10 with Multigrab, -10 with Improved Multigrab feats). Follows normal grapple rules (grapple checks every round and so forth) except that the creature still moves around and can attack as normal. Attacking using the grappling limb is forbidden, but if you're attacking with the guy, I'd say it's fine - but it wouldn't really deal more damage than attacking normally.

[Zoltro]

Great stuff guys!

Are there any specific monsters that would fit this scenario well? I don't know every monster in the manuals, but a monster whose specialty should be grappling and being strong enough to wield the humans with ease.

Oh and another question pops into my mind. Does the human-wielding monster get an AC bonus because he has some sort of shield now?

Or would an attacking pc have a chance to hit his friend in melee combat?

[Flickerdart]

The monster grappling the PC is far too large to gain an AC bonus from it if it's using Improved Grab.

[herrhauptmann]

Great stuff guys!

Are there any specific monsters that would fit this scenario well? I don't know every monster in the manuals, but a monster whose specialty should be grappling and being strong enough to wield the humans with ease.

Oh and another question pops into my mind. Does the human-wielding monster get an AC bonus because he has some sort of shield now?

Or would an attacking pc have a chance to hit his friend in melee combat?

1)No idea. Maybe bluespawn godslayers from MM4. They already like to play badminton with medium size PCs.
2)No. Do you get an AC bonus just from holding a longsword in each hand?
3)Yes. Same penalties (or lack thereof) as attacking into a grapple.

[Flickerdart]

Actually, an Improved Grabbing monster isn't considered grappling.

[Tyndmyr]

Be aware that the monster is probably not proficient in "humanoid".

[Telonius]

No time to look it up now, but Drunken Master or Hulking Hurler PrC's might have something for you. Fling Ally is in Races of Stone, but iirc it's for willing allies only.

[Zoltro]

I was in fact looking at the Drunken Master Prestige Class.
An ogre with 1 lvl in monk could qualify for a Drunken Master and would get improved grapple for free as well. I'm not sure if it's going to be effective though.

[Curmudgeon]

The feat you need is Fling Enemy (in Races of Stone). The rules don't allow you to throw characters otherwise.

[Infernalbargain]

Be aware that the monster is probably not proficient in "humanoid".

Well are humanoids simple, martial, or exotic weapons?

[Curmudgeon]

Well are humanoids simple, martial, or exotic weapons?
None of the above. That means they're always improvised, and using the rules for improvised weapons, probably only of appropriate size for Gargantuan or Colossal creatures. Come on: compare the weight of a person to the weight of a rapier ─ the difference is enormous.

[Darrin]

King of Pong (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5897646) could throw PCs, although I built it around the idea of throwing opponents into each other.