Chameleon Master of the Nine viability?

[deuxhero]

Aside from the gimmick of being able to take any maneuver/stance you want at the start of a day, is it viable?

[hex0]

Master of Nine is too feat intensive and the Chameleon's feat don't qualify for anything. I don't get how it could work.

Rampant multiclassing is the most effective way into Master of Nine. Chameleon/Master of Nine in Gestalt could work decently, but given gestalt I'd probably want to get to Factotum 8 instead.

[Psyren]

If you want to do everything that badly.... play GURPS :smalltongue:

[Pechvarry]

(Any Class) 4
Unarmed Swordsage 1 (assuming it's kosher at your table)
Chameleon 10
Master of Nine 5

What's the problem, here? It's no 1k damage charge build, it's not a Wizard. It will perform well at most normal tables, though. I assume it could keep up with a tier 3-4 party.

If Unarmed Swordsage doesn't fly, I'd consider having the 1st 4 levels be something which grants bonus feats. Psychic Warrior would work decently with self-buffs that you don't have to worry about scaling. Midnight Dodge plus more Incarnum feats (3 spare + chameleon floater) could be pretty darn fun, too.

[Darrin]

Master of Nine is too feat intensive and the Chameleon's feat don't qualify for anything. I don't get how it could work.


He means using the Chameleon's bonus feat to pick up Martial Study/Martial Stance.

Kirech's Peerless Master of the Sublime Way (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871346/Tome_of_Battle_Build_Compendium?post_id=338393250# 338393250) does essentially this with a 2-level Chameleon dip, both for the floating feat and the heroics spell.


Aside from the gimmick of being able to take any maneuver/stance you want at the start of a day, is it viable?

As far as viability... I'd say it's as viable as any other ToB build, which is to say, it's not particularly optimized but it's also really, really hard to screw up a ToB build and not have something useful to do.

[Talionis]

A level of cleric nets you two Domains. The Domains, (Darkness, and Planning) can get you two of the feats you need to qualify for Master of Nine.

Also, 1 Cleric, 4 Unarmed Swordsage, 10 Chameleon, 5 Master of Nine

Will net you an initiator level of 14.5 (I can't remember if you round up or down, normally its down) both 14 or 15 initiator levels only allow you level 7 maneuvers. So the highest level maneuvers will be out of your reach if you take all 10 levels of Chameleon.

[Manateee]

With a Crusader free action recovery base and full Chameleon spell access, a Chameleon/Mot9 won't be competing with full casters, but should be more versatile and comparably powerful to other ToB-powered characters.

Draconic Polymorph alone would make this a viable melee character for all but the most optimization-centric groups.

I haven't mucked about with the specifics, but I'm sure something like Feat Rogue 1/Swordsage 1/Monk 2/Crusader 1/<some arrangement of Chameleon 10/Mot9 5> would generally work out, though it would lack the typical early level dominance of other ToB builds.

[Talionis]

Feat Rogue 1/Swordsage 1/Monk 2/Crusader 1/<some arrangement of Chameleon 10/Mot9 5> would generally work out, though it would lack the typical early level dominance of other ToB builds.

Initiator level: 13 which is allows level 6 maneuvers.

[Darrin]

A level of cleric nets you two Domains. The Domains, (Darkness, and Planning) can get you two of the feats you need to qualify for Master of Nine.


Nitpick: Actually its Darkness/Shadow (for the Blind-Fight feat) and the Time domain (Improved Initiative feat). Planning domain = Extend Spell.

The cleric dip works best with Swordsage or Crusader, since a Warblade usually takes Blind-Fight and/or Improved Initiative from his Warblade bonus feats.

[Talionis]

Nitpick: Actually its Darkness/Shadow (for the Blind-Fight feat) and the Time domain (Improved Initiative feat). Planning domain = Extend Spell.

The cleric dip works best with Swordsage or Crusader, since a Warblade usually takes Blind-Fight and/or Improved Initiative from his Warblade bonus feats.

Thanks I was at work and away from books.