Help with a factotum assassin

[DreadWarlock]

So im planing on playing an noble/assassin type of char and i don't mean an optimized pure assassin PrC. I don't think we're be able to see magic items a lot so I think the best way is to make an equipment indipendant type of character. This is what i got in mind: factotum to 3rd lvl for brains over brawn, swashbuckler to fill the prerequisites for an assassin prestige class cuz i still need to be at least lvl 5 to enter a prc and i dont like the rogue class in this build. I still like roleplaying and rogue doesn't quite fit my char and i could also go to swash 3 for the better dmg. Also there is this daggerspell mage prc that i like and i can enter it with factotum and practiced spellcaster or assassin and practiced spellcaster, right? maybe arcane trickster too...

[DreadWarlock]

any suggestions?

[JonRG]

So if I've got this right, you want a medium-OP, intelligent, less gear reliant noble-by-day/assassin-by-night?

Could probably use some more information since assassin's a profession as well as a PrC. I assume based on the ideas you presented that your aim is a killer that favors melee combat. (Curious why you don't think rogue fits. They're basically jacks of all trades.) On the mechanical side, how stingy is your DM with magic items? Have you generated stats?

[Human Paragon 3]

I'd go with Factotum 5 or Factotum 8. Swashbuckler doesn't add much. An extra few points of damage don't really matter all that much. You'd rather have more skill points and skill access, IMO.

Do pick up Craven as soon as you qualify, though.

[DreadWarlock]

more or less correct. assassin should be a preffesion but i intend on entering the prc aswell. I dont like rogue being more focused on sneak attack than other stuff and i don't like to be so much focused on sneak attack damage. We used the die rolling sistem not the point buy and there are no rules on minimal modifiers. so my rolls are quite not good: 17,15,11,10,10,10...
edit: i don't like craven roleplayingwise cuz i dont feel like a coward, and factotum 6 doesnt mean to much to me, factotum 8lvl feature is nice but a waste of my levels if you ask me

[DreadWarlock]

here's what i intented on entering
factotum/swashbuckler/assassin/daggerspellmage/uncanny trickster
the problem is skill preriquisite

[Darrin]

We'll need to know what books/sources you have access to. In particular, are you allowed to use Tome of Battle, Dragon Magazine, online material, etc.?

Ok, so... Factotum -> Assassin -> Daggerspell Mage?

There's a few Factotum Handbooks out there: here's one (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871722/The_Factotum_Handbook), here's another (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2720.0).

Next... Assassin is considered to be a pretty weak PrC (although it gets some of the most phenomenal spell-list support from supplements for a PrC caster with a unique spell list). In particular, the whole "Death Attack" feature is notoriously hard to use. Still... ok, you want some arcane casting and then go into Daggerspell Mage... well, that's another not-so-well-thought-of PrC.

For anything that involves sneakiness and arcane spells, I'm a big fan of Unseen Seer (Complete Mage), and then maybe try topping off with Spellwarp Sniper (Complete Scoundrel) before mucking around with Daggerspell Mage.

I guess I'm not sure what you're really trying to build towards. It sounds like you want an Int-based Gish (a.k.a. "fighter/magic-user hybrid"). I'm not sure going into Assassin or Daggerspell Mage really offers you anything more decent than more levels of Factotum (which already gets a little sneak attack and some spellcasting). A Swashbuckler 3/Factotum 17 might be perfectly servicable.

[Talionis]

If you are allowed Tome of Battle, I'd suggest Warblade and then possibly Jade Phoenix Mage (to progress maneuvers and casting). Warblade gets some nice Intelligence usage. Even a level or two is really good and will increase what you can do in melee range. If you are an elf (or your DM doesn't enforce racial requirements for prestige classes), Eternal Blade has some wonderful synergies with Intelligence.

Knowledge Devotion (Complete Champion) feat might be nice to increase to hit and damage.

[Metahuman1]

I'd Suggest ignoring the Assassin PrC.

Further, I'd advise if you can swing them dipping some Swordsage and Warblade form Tome of Battle for Maneuvers.

Other Thoughts:

Knowledge Devotion and Travel Devotion are both useful, Travel Devotion grants extra movement, Knowledge Devotion boosts too hit and damage.

TWF + Iai-jutsu Focus + Gnome Quick Razors + Item Familiar + Pounce + Travel Devotion. This can be a NASTY way to one round a target you get the drop on. Add the Shadow Creature Template and then buy off the +1 LA to get hide in Plane Sight to make that combo last longer.

[DreadWarlock]

all official d&d wotc books are in game but i dislike the new rules like tome of battle, incarnum etc. It doesn't matter if assassin is a weak class, it is fun and death attack is great in my opinion; it's not like i'm gonna use it in combat but more like a tactical backstab. and i'm playing a half-elf
yes, and this iaijutsu focus was always a broken skill to me and plus we're playing 3.5, also it is oriental content that doesn't quite fit my view d&d

[JonRG]

Death Attack will also be of little use out-of-combat. With Int 16, Death Attack's DC is 13 + your assassin level. So unless your targets are low low-level, you'll fail sooner rather than later and, with those stats, you may not get away.

Fancy Japanese name aside, iaijutsu just catches an enemy off-guard by going directly from sheath to attack and back. Nothing inherently oriental about it. Just ask this guy. :smallamused:


http://www.thegamersmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/assassinscreed2mainch.jpg

[Rubik]

all official d&d wotc books are in game but i dislike the new rules like tome of battle, incarnum etc. It doesn't matter if assassin is a weak class, it is fun and death attack is great in my opinion; it's not like i'm gonna use it in combat but more like a tactical backstab. and i'm playing a half-elf
yes, and this iaijutsu focus was always a broken skill to me and plus we're playing 3.5, also it is oriental content that doesn't quite fit my view d&dIaijutsu Focus is: I hit it hard.

Not any more oriental than a masterwork bastard sword is a katana, if you don't want it to be.

[DreadWarlock]

no matter what it is 3.0 skill and i don't think my dm would let me

[Rubik]

no matter what it is 3.0 skill and i don't think my dm would let meThe DM allowability issue is definitely a justifiable concern, though do note that IF was never updated to 3.5, and so it's still fair game in a "RAW" game, according to WotC.

[Slipperychicken]

Factotum8 is considered potent for the Cunning Surge ability, which allows you to take more standard actions. This, coupled with taking Font of Inspiration several times, leads to a significant action-advantage. Wanted to take your target down really quickly, but he survived your full attack? 5 more hits should do the job. Forced to choose between casting a spell and hitting stuff? You can do both. In my opinion, more actions > slightly better actions.

[Gavinfoxx]

It's not a 3.0 skill; it was updated to 3.5e (along with the rest of Oriental Adventures) in Dragon Magazine issue 318.

[hex0]

I'd Suggest ignoring the Assassin PrC.


And I'd suggest Psychic Assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d)instead.

Factotum 3/Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b) 2 gets you Brains over Brawn and Evasion and gets you into Psychic Assassin ASAP. Psychic Assassin gets you HIPS and two special abilities to boot. The best being Mind Cripple.

Take hidden Expanded Knowledge for Minor Psionic Creation and get black lotus poison for free.

[Piggy Knowles]

My suggestion would be...

Human, Factotum 8/Trapsmith 1/Swiftblade 9

First feats should be Hidden Talent (Expanded Psionics Handbook p67), for Psionic Minor Creation, and Master of Poisons (Drow of the Underdark). Use Psionic Minor Creation and a tweaked out craft skill to create a lot of plant-based poisons.

Alternatively, you can go with a jungle halfling (Unearthed Arcana), which gets poison-use as a racial ability and hence doesn't need the Master of Poisons feat. Small size means more sneakiness, which is always a plus. But I'd probably still go the human route - you'll want those extra skill points, and the Master of Poisons feat is actually better than the Poison Use ability jungle halflings get.

For the last two levels, you could go with almost anything. Another level in Swiftblade will increase your swift surge, although you won't have high enough level spells to really benefit from innervated speed. Two more levels of Factotum wouldn't go amiss either, getting you more out of arcane dilettante. Or you could stack on some templates - the dark template is pretty good, if you don't think you'll be able to find a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis anywhere.

[DreadWarlock]

you fail to realise that i said books(so no swiftblade etc.) and also that i'm playing a half-elf... also i don't want to stray alot from my original idea

[Ur-Quan]

I think the lad wants more of a skill and/or feat choices, rather than class changes. I'm not too qualified for that much optimizing, but I do think going 8 in factotum might be worth it.

Also, see with your DM if you can get to be a real noble in exchange for some starting gold or a skill point per level. It'd help the fluff a lot if you got recognized in society as a nobles son.

[Gavinfoxx]

Can you at least go Chameleon?

[DreadWarlock]

i could but it doesn't fit my char

[Gavinfoxx]

What about that would make you worse at being an assassin??

[DreadWarlock]

your suggestions are wellcome, other thing is using them

[Psyren]

And I'd suggest Psychic Assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d)instead.

Factotum 3/Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b) 2 gets you Brains over Brawn and Evasion and gets you into Psychic Assassin ASAP. Psychic Assassin gets you HIPS and two special abilities to boot. The best being Mind Cripple.

Take hidden Expanded Knowledge for Minor Psionic Creation and get black lotus poison for free.

Note that Psychic Rogue by itself gets you Mind Cripple too, plus full manifesting, the same sneak attack and very nice abilities; if Mind Cripple is all you want from Psychic Assassin I would say that giving up half your ML for it is not worthwhile.

PA's one clear advantage is HiPS, but Psychic Rogues can just make it pitch black or throw up cover to hide behind anyway.

[DreadWarlock]

I'm a little bit old fashioned so i don't like these psyonic in most cases

[Gavinfoxx]

So, um. What precisely do you want to do with your supernatural abilities?

[DreadWarlock]

@ gavinfoxx just shoot and then we'll see

[Gavinfoxx]

Things like darken the area around you? Hide better? Leap from high places without getting hurt? Create distractions via sounds or mental compulsions? Make yourself seem to be 'not there' or un-noticeable via a magical perception filter of sorts? Have a sixth sense as if someone is about to kill you? Open doors? Get extra move actions? Teleport? Root people in place? See through magical effects?

Does that stuff sound interesting?

Or how about supernatural abilities to blind people, attack incredibly accurately, transform into a very stealthy creature, create bombs, create poison? Does any of that sound interesting? Could you be a useful assassin with that stuff?

[DreadWarlock]

well any of it would be great, I had in plan a tactic of stealth ambush with my daggers(a little bit of sneak attack, maybe death attack...), and after that just fight normaly or with a spell... having two arcane lists is a good thing i think, also if I enter Arcane trickster there is this option to make another sneak attack any time. also i'd like to be a skillmonkey so entering uncanny trickster is a good choice and it also gives you 2/3 lvls of your own class features. can any of this be put in this or similar build
edit: i'd like more some extraordinari rather than supernatural if you can think of anything useful

[Gavinfoxx]

Well, uh, the first list is stuff the Psychic Rogue can do, the second list is stuff the Factotum can do. :P :P

[DreadWarlock]

i don't plan on entering rogue and i don't intend on taking more than 4 factotums levels... also traps and poisons are a good tactic cuz i'm sure i can handle the danger that way with less damage to me. so a stealth based char... magic is here for a little boost, as my char woul'd like to use it as a last resort. so in our campaign there is this political war between the elf wizards and the human traders... i wanted to base myself to most physical kind of char but the spells are more like an heretage line cuz of his magicaly focused parents

[Phaederkiel]

I can vouch for factotum beeing a far better assasin than assasin is...
on 4th level you gain the ability to put sneak attack dice in an attack per inspiration point you use... if you were clever and took font 3 to 6 times, you can unload about 13d6 sneak at lvl 9. And each font you take makes this strategy more potent.

the first level spell snipershot allows you to hit from afar.

I think you should at least get that 4th lvl of factotum, but 8th level is best:
you get upgrades in spells (lvl 3), inspiration points, and the second best ability the class has to offer.

[Gavinfoxx]

What is wrong with staying in factotum? Why is that not on the table??

[Phaederkiel]

I thought i put it on the table. But stealthily...Dread Warlock seems to dislike such outlandish ideas...

point is: Assasin is not the strongest of all classes. Factotum is just plainly more fun. I´d refluff my factotum as an assasin which goes all out on single big sneaks. I play such a guy at the moment, and he is great.

Aside from the assasin-question: I heartily second knowledge devotion. It is one of the few feats that are better than a font of inspiration.

[Bloodgruve]

I think Factotum is a strong main base to your character concept. A guy who knows something about everything and when in a pinch pull off pretty big stunts. A big part of an assassins job is to know the target and its environment, you can learn a lot with knowledge and gather info when you're rolling 30+'s

I'm currently away from my books but if you were to go heavy factotum with a dip in maybe Ninja I think you could get some fun tools like ghost step and the poison handling ability and sudden strike.

Run feats like Craven, Knowledge Devotion, Font of Inspiration, Font of Inspiration and some more Fonts. Maybe TWF and Weapon Finesse.

Spells like Wraith Strike are just awesome here too. And the ability to burn 3 inspiration for an extra standard action are too hard to pass up.

You can add any skill so your socials like diplomacy/bluff/intimidation are there for the 'noble' aspect. Not to mention being able to add our class level to the skill check once per day can change the course of an encounter.

I fell in love with Factotum, its hard now for me to stray from the class.

GL
Blood~

[DreadWarlock]

the problem with a straight class is in me maybe cuz I like to multiclass. I think that the factotum is the one of two classes that i could soloclass(the other being warlock). but the fact is that i imagine a factotum diferent than my char and don't think that i'll be happy with a factotum as my curent char. I had a factotum in mind a game before but couldn't not multiclass( i know it has two negations, so what)

[Gavinfoxx]

Okay... could you tell us a bit more about how you imagine your character??

Maybe dip Swordsage for two levels? Dip Mindbender for Mindsight? What do you want??

[DreadWarlock]

i imagined my char as a dual knife wielding assassin kind of char, then i remenbered the daggerspell mage as an entry point to arcane trickster, but the more i think of it the more i'm thinking of dumping arcane trickster. daggerspell mage can stay. but i need sneak attack for entering so i just thought why go the usual rogue way for sneak if i can take assassin for sneak and also has a spell list. cuz i don't have good points and i already started as a factotum why not multiclass into swashbuckler for better damage and also i figured that my char could be a little martial and so, but only a little... also any build that has skills needs uncanny trickster(my logic, you don't need to think so)... so this is how my idea was born... so factotum3/swashbuckler3/assassin1/daggerspellmageX(enter with practiced spellcaster)/uncanny trickster3/daggerspell mage(10-X)/arcane trickster

[Gavinfoxx]

Let's try this again... rather than thinking in terms of classes, could you tell us what you see your character doing when presented with problems?

[Red_Dog]

Long time lurker (more of an Information miner really...) first time poster.

Its rather funny that I was myself looking for help in building Factotum/Sin but alas I could not find much. But since I "think" I've managed to build a half decent concept I figured I might as well share it.

*Disclaimer, following build was intended for an NPC(lvl12) in a campaign I am running, but after few sessions the NPC seemed to be a competent PC-equivalent, hence I decided to share*
=============================>
Factotum 5/Assassin 10/Uncanny Trickster 3/W/e tickles ya fensy
*If other Assassins look-a-likes(Names of 5lvl death attack PrC escaped my brain currently) Uncanny Trickster can easily be replaced with them. But really after lvl15, 2 lvls of Fighter might not sound too bad.

Max Int and send it at least into lower earth orbit
Int synergies with Everything. Death attack, Factotum abilities, Amount of spells & a metric TON of skills that Brains over Brawn just GIVES you.
Dex is a nice second thing you might want. Most weapons of choice would be Finesse-able or even Ranged(force Javelin Death attacks out of thin blue air anyone?). Con is always nice to haz... But depends on point-buy/rolls prioritize Int like its no tomorrow.

Feats depend on a campaign/play style. Two-Weapon Chain is nice because its Touch attacks ^^, Elusive Target is mouth-watering in a right setting(with high lvls of power attack/hoard tactics use). Inspiration Pool chain can also be amazing but is most likely to eat all of your feats. Mandatory stuff though IMO are Ability Focus(Death Attack), Dark Hunter & Knowledge Devotion, with Devotion & Able learner being lvl1 pick. Weapon Finesse if you are Melee user with a right weapon.

Skills.. a lot to be said on abusing obscure skills... And I do not meant OA one that people seem to focus on. Forgery, Bluff and Disguise(and some arcane goodness of a Factotum) can make you look like a Elite guardsmen/diplomat/kings cousin WITH paperwork to prove it. Remember that lawful characters respect paperwork... and only other person with skill Forgery can recognize forgery... Hysterically funny IMO ^_^ Add the fact that you are likely to have the highest skills in the party/encounters this gives an unparalleled advantage.

Spells for both classes depend on Int, and while limited, still quite potent. Shadow Form for example will get you inside of anything short of permanent force-wall barricaded building. Wraith Strike you get thru Factotum 5 lvls before Assassin. While there are other spells that can be cast, if you have prep work, you can drop full touch attacks starting lvl5 ^^

Death Attack = DC33/35 at 15/18th lvl.
Notes on death Attack. Don't be afraid to essentially be ALWAYS ready to make one. No need for hiding blades in obscure places either. Its a move action (even with sleight of hand its tricky), remember you just have to deal damage... 1 damage is enough. Hitting someone in a face with a ring could be an improvised weapon attack, on a flatfooted fellow... And with Wraith-strike being a Swift Action... In one round you can go from talking to someone you planned to attack all along, to dropping a full death attack using a teacup.. (old reference I know). Its all in how you use it ; ) With good Bluff target will never know what hit them even if they strip searched you prior to the event.

Also remember with your Brains over Brawn, you can make all kinds of silly things with Balance, Bullrushes, Trips, Grapples(if DM deems it acceptable) & untold other things.

Also remember that downtime that is bound to happen when wizard needs to copy another demi-god-like spell because he is not satisfied with 28 other ways he has to warp reality, use that time for small missions for yourself. Steal stuff, take small contracts for local nobility, observe/study your primary mission targets. A successful assassination mission takes about 5-10 rolls and 5 minutes if speed talked thru during downtime (in order not to hog the spot light from others).

For gear, if you put effort in "acquiring merchandise" in alternative ways, you will quickly be ahead of party in combined wealth. Oddly enough the thing you REALLY need is "Bracers of Murder" for 8k from DoTU. Pair of Quicksilver boots can be neat too for those "surprise!" moments. Quick-loading Crossbow can be fun if you went with that route(My NPC used that as focus). Wounding Kukri is always a nice option. Gloves of Endless Javelins are great as a back up and are generally affordable and ghost-approved, and free action activated ^^. Otherwise, your options are only limited by downtime/environment ^^

One last BIG advise... Don't bother with traps. Unless DM will let you use cheaper, better traps stick with a metric TONS of options you have already. Poison on the other hand is accessible... and poisoning someone's food & drink never goes out of style.

*This deserves a special mention. Regardless of your character's personality, whether its a Psychopath, Mercenary, brooding Anti-Hero with La Dark past & w/e else. You dropped some poor sap just to enroll into Assassins! That says a LOT of things but mostly, it talks of efficiency and commitment you have to your skills/occupation choice ; )
=============================>
But all this long advise/rant aside=> Most of what people are saying is generally true. Assassin is a 3rd-4th rate PrC at best, however depending on a campaign and, more importantly play style, you can be very successful with it, IF you invest effort.

Most of the times(if not all), my DMs not liking my characters were due to my play style and not levels of optimization... So if you want to be an Assassin, prepare to Sin = ]

P.S. Apologies for Wall'O'Txt... just spent considerable amount of time on stating Assassin class and Assassin-look-a-likes (swordsage) in past week.

Hope anyone found at least one useful line here ^^

[JonRG]

You can't Death Attack at range, constantly studying potential Death Attackees would realistically arouse suspicion, and I can't see a ring scrape forcing a save (unless it's covered in poison). His DM would need to be very generous in his interpretation of what triggers a Death Attack, and if he's willing to give that much latitude, why not snag IF instead (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Iaijutsu_Focus_Skill)?

Suppose we'll just have to wait for DreadWarlock to get back to us before we can reply in any kind of constructive manner.

[Crasical]

So if I've got this right, you want a medium-OP, intelligent, less gear reliant noble-by-day/assassin-by-night?

...Batman? Is that you? :smalleek:

[JonRG]

...Batman? Is that you? :smalleek:

Aside from the "not gear reliant" part, kinda yeah. :smallamused:

[Red_Dog]

You can't Death Attack at range, constantly studying potential Death Attackees would realistically arouse suspicion, and I can't see a ring scrape forcing a save (unless it's covered in poison). His DM would need to be very generous in his interpretation of what triggers a Death Attack, and if he's willing to give that much latitude, why not snag IF instead (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Iaijutsu_Focus_Skill)?

Suppose we'll just have to wait for DreadWarlock to get back to us before we can reply in any kind of constructive manner.

Assassin has a spell that lets him use Death attack at Range. And besides, that's not an issue(I gave a crossbow line as an example of what I did, not as something that is a best idea).

If you can't see a scrape causing death, perhaps study in humoniod anatomy allows you to pin point weak places. A human neck is rather weak place, so is a nose bone. Pressure points are not science fiction either. All of these are examples of minor damage dealt into a right place while a target was not expecting that. Factotum justifies exactly why you know all this. (Hell assassin is the one justifying why do you know 4 ways to drive a nose bone into a skull, Factotum just emphasizes it ^^)

Studying a target isn't really like playing Stare Contest. You can simple take 18 seconds (3 rounds) to analyze a target. Perhaps a pause after words "let me think for a second". Or perhaps taking a long hard sip from a tea cup that your target offered you and than reenacting a scene from Riddick ^_^

Its mostly in a play style and actual willingness to get dirty ^_^.

P.S. Granted, there will be things immune to death attack. Sneak attack is always there if used with items[Death Strike Braces can be put on if at least general idea of encountering Oozes/Elementals/Etc. is present. Factotum can aid with cunning strike. And as Undead & Constructs are not known for there actual high hit point pool, they won't last that long. Adamantine dagger is useful to keep around.
*Not sure if THIS works but=> Adamantine Dagger + +3 magic weapon oil + move action insert a Greater Demolition/True Death Crystal*

If the thing above won't work, a +3 adamantine dagger/kukri/short sword with Greater Demolition/True Death Crystal WILL do the trick ^^

[JonRG]

Why look at that. However, Sniper's Eye isn't available until Assassin 7 at the earliest. Our friend may have a difficult time reaching that point with no positive modifiers in Str, Con, Wis, and Cha though.

I get that the human body has several weak points, some incredibly obscure. I just don't think a ring nicking the skin for one point of damage (followed by obscene d6s, I guess) as you described could get to any of the fatal ones. It would be up to the DM if that worked, which was great for you because you were the DM.

Analyze means to "examine methodically and in detail the constitution or structure of (something, esp. information) [...]" This isn't just undressing someone with your eyes. This is figuring out the location of their vagus nerve or their carotid artery through sight alone. It'll involve some seriously hardcore creeper staring.

(Just a reminder, DreadWarlock said his DM was stingy with what magic items would be available. So some of the very nice items you mentioned are probably off the table.)

[Gavinfoxx]

If DM is stingy with Magic Items... I would suggest you definitely want access to Alter Self...

[Red_Dog]

Why look at that. However, Sniper's Eye isn't available until Assassin 7 at the earliest. Our friend may have a difficult time reaching that point with no positive modifiers in Str, Con, Wis, and Cha though.


Why would you think other stats suddenly have no modifiers? How in your mind a pure Factotum lives?O_o You'll always have at least ONE (if u rolled crappy, or point buy is low) to fall back on, which would either be Dex, or Str. By lvl 3, all of the primary duties (besides an actual attack) are under Intellect domain as it is ^^.



I get that the human body has several weak points, some incredibly obscure. I just don't think a ring nicking the skin for one point of damage (followed by obscene d6s, I guess) as you described could get to any of the fatal ones. It would be up to the DM if that worked, which was great for you because you were the DM.

Analyze means to "examine methodically and in detail the constitution or structure of (something, esp. information) [...]" This isn't just undressing someone with your eyes. This is figuring out the location of their vagus nerve or their carotid artery through sight alone. It'll involve some seriously hardcore creeper staring.

As DM, I mostly look thru mountains of books/forum rulings/erratas before I even ask my players for a vote on a ruling. However, by very very simple RAW it works perfectly ^_^ And if an argument derails into RAI, it has a lot more grounds derived from medicine, history and etc.

Death Attack: If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice). While studying the
victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his
attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy.

Which bring a more important question, with all the limitations on Death Attack as it is, why would anyone want to nerf it?O_O With all possible shenanigans I've mentioned we are again light-years away from any true questionable content where wizards live and strive = P All I'm doing is trying to show that Factotum/Assassin played like an ASSASSIN is a valid tier3-ish member. Maybe on the very bottom of said tier, but still hanging on and shouting obscenities ^^ I mean, it is usually all in play style anyway ^^. With 3.5 it is more difficult to exploit play-style on it own, but with some grasp on a system it can be done ^^



(Just a reminder, DreadWarlock said his DM was stingy with what magic items would be available. So some of the very nice items you mentioned are probably off the table.)
Quick silver boots are 3500... Unless MiC is just voided, this is basic stuff (goes for attack Crystals too). Braces of Murder are from DoTU. This can be iffy. But you know, win some loose some ^^ An adamantine dagger is STILL useful to keep around. What if you want to cut thru wall, wolverine-Style? ^^ Or open a particularly nasty can of preserved beans? ^^

[JonRG]

OP posted his stats as 17, 15, 11, 10, 10, 10. I assumed the 17 would go into Int and the 15 into Dex. Looking at Factotum, I see that they get a very small number of IP (and if I'm not mistaken, Font of Inspiration is a web feat which OP's DM does not allow).

I don't want to nerf Death Attack. I'm just saying it's not great as written and that not all DMs would agree with the latitude you are giving it.

[Red_Dog]

OP posted his stats as 17, 15, 11, 10, 10, 10. I assumed the 17 would go into Int and the 15 into Dex. Looking at Factotum, I see that they get a very small number of IP (and if I'm not mistaken, Font of Inspiration is a web feat which OP's DM does not allow).

I don't want to nerf Death Attack. I'm just saying it's not great as written and that not all DMs would agree with the latitude you are giving it.

Woopsy! Missed the horrid stats ^^. Still doable though ^^. U r correct in assumption that 15 goes to Dex, or perhaps Str if weapon finesse is not OP's style. Some +2items can fix some things, but stats are rather atrocious. Well at least Int is high enough ^^

I'm not really giving Death Attack more latitude that it has. All I did is suggested aggressive no nonsense attitude that should come with a territory of being an Assassin... ^^ Hell even a Endless Javelin trick(summon Javelin as free action, swift action Wraith Strike, full attack against potential AC10 wih death/sneak attack) isn't really reading between the lines. [Though again, Gloves of Endless Javelins are from MiC and are a relic, but only 8k one, and not supper rare/game braking, but that is up to DM]

If you want latitude than, how about using parts of enemy armor/cloth as Improvised weapon? Attacking while enemy is swallowing tea/food/etc. to make him/her choke? Or your own body weight if you jump on him from far enough(not accidentally, after 18seconds and from a second floor window)
= P All these are definitely creative latitude but again, nothing really broken when AGAIN compared to Limited Wish and three metric TONs of "wizard!!! Fuuuu!!!" screams from a DM = ]

P.S. I Utterly forgot about THIS combo btw! => Dip one Monk level, than take feat from ToB that scales your unarmed strike per character level like monk's. This way you are ALWAYS armed no matter the environment ^^
*silly joke, but I recall that one of the local players pelvic thrusted someone to death when he was grappled and pin by monster with a lot of hands*

Or take Improved Unarmed Strike at later level if loosing one BAB point is too much. Though Monk will give Improved Grapple that can be used with Brains over Brawn if DM rules that its a Str based check (though ruling is iffy, I scoured the interwebs and forums about this and could not find a concrete RAW answer).

[JonRG]

The creation pre-requisite for gloves of endless javelins includes possessing another piece of the relic set. In a world where the GM allows magic items sparingly, there is probably only one Array of the Manticore and it'd be one helluva quest to find. This isn't an item you could pick up at the Magic*Mart.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on whether an assassin could chain-study a conversational partner without arousing suspicion.

Your ideas do make me wish that there were clear rules for stuff like garrotes and what-not (in 3.5/PF anyways). It would certainly make Death Attack more interesting than "I stick the pointy end into the squishy thing that screams and bleeds."

[Red_Dog]

On the gloves, I just meant buying them outright when you enter the game. But if it starts at lvl1, than you are 100% correct, getting them would be a pain in several places ^^


I think we'll have to agree to disagree on whether an assassin could chain-study a conversational partner without arousing suspicion.
*shakes you hands* Fair enough ^^.

I just tend to try to use play-style to make characters effective. In D&D its actually very hard, where barbarian needs calculator to find out damage he deals which when compared to area of impact and to similar effects (alchemy fire/etc.) is probably equivalent of a tactical nuke going off (energy density off ze chart! ^^). Its hard to use clever in-game tricks after that short of a peasant railguns and etc. to compete with that level of efficiency = \.

But I try anyways! ^^ Oddly enough, Assassin (and couple other rouge-esc or ranger-esc) classes are the once that to me still have some wiggle room outside there spread sheet ^^... I guess wizards can do that too *rollseyes and coughs* true creation anti-mater bomb*cough*.... ^^

[DreadWarlock]

sorry for being away. I am suprised that there is so many posts, i don't think it would be any. Yes 15 is dex and i tend to pick up weapon finesse. Don't think that i will take that many assassin levels... maybe through daggerspell mage or something. I am more concerned about feats and skills. I would like if i had few feats not rogue/assassin oriented or factotum oriented like font of inspiration cuz to work it would need more than one and i think there are more cool feats than to stack FoI(minimal 3)

[Red_Dog]

sorry for being away. I am suprised that there is so many posts, i don't think it would be any. Yes 15 is dex and i tend to pick up weapon finesse. Don't think that i will take that many assassin levels... maybe through daggerspell mage or something. I am more concerned about feats and skills. I would like if i had few feats not rogue/assassin oriented or factotum oriented like font of inspiration cuz to work it would need more than one and i think there are more cool feats than to stack FoI(minimal 3)

Just a heads up. Unless your DM lets you=> Dagger-spell mage is not compatible with Assassin as it non-evil only, where Assassin is Evil only.
====================>
Mechanically=>Dagger-spell mage needs a class with very STRONG spellcasting to follow up. Assassin's spells while awesome IMO, are not for him as most of them (at least half) are out-of-combat things. Main gimmick of an assassin is death attack/sneak attack & skills that on average can keep up with a save-or-die spells if you use/invest in it right
====================>
For feats, your Two-Weapon chain will already eat 2-3 feats by default. I offered Elusive Target if big strong monsters with Power attack will be your primary targets. You don't have that many feats to go around, that's a problem of all skillful characters that are not psionic = \

[JonRG]

(Found my hardcopy of CAdv, so I can actually contribute! :smallbiggrin:)

Daggerspell Mage actually looks pretty fun, but it's something you would have to actively level toward considering the requirements. Assassin seems like a poor fit in a DsM build. Additionally, if you went with Factotum, you wouldn't be able to enter Daggerspell Mage until 10th level.

Before we can give any advice on skills, we need to know how you would like to go about assassinating your targets. I'm guessing you're more of an infiltration specialist, so uh... Hide/Move Silently, Listen/Spot, Open Lock/Disable Device, Tumble, Concentration for DsM entry, Forgery if you want to do that, UMD, and... something else. (I've been rocking out with PF lately, so I'm not really used to the larger skill list. ^_^;)

Is there any way you would be allowed to reroll your stats? Being in melee with Con 10 could be risky.

[Chronos]

If you want to use the Assassin class to actually assassinate people, one trick I like is to combine the feat Arterial Strike (Complete Scoundrel, I think, or maybe Adventurer) with the spell Cursed Weapon (Spell Compendium). Arterial Strike means that your target loses HP every round until the damage from the attack is cured. Cursed Weapon means that the damage from your weapon can't be cured without a Remove Curse. So unless your target has a Remove Curse handy very quickly, they're going to die. And if they do get a Remove Curse that quickly, then you just come back out of the shadows and do it again, since the duration of your spell is probably still running. This is much more reliable than the Death Attack ability, and both more reliable and cheaper than poisons.

[Red_Dog]

Aside from the "not gear reliant" part, kinda yeah. :smallamused:

Btw, I missed this comment.

DreadWarlock=> If you want to be batman, why not play Vigilante which is in CAdv as well? He gets decent selection of spells, thought they are Charisma based = \ But since they are mostly utility(briefly looked, could be wrong) you only need Cha14+. You can enter by lvl5 with Pure Factotum and no issues. You cast as bard so means you can haz LA. He has some small abilities like quick hide which is not as good as HIPS, but still something and comes on lvl5. The rest of the abilities are pretty good too IMO.

So yeah seems FAR superior to Dagerspell mage that has no strong caster base.

*BIG EDIT*
=========================================>
Come to think of it, there are a lot of classes that emulate "batman" concept.
Bloodhound(CAdv) needs to feats burned [or classes of ranger(potentially Urban)] and few skills and set n' rdy to go hunt ppl.
Justicar(CW) is similar to Blood hound with abit steeper pre-reqs and not sure if he is better than bloodhound but still same shindig.
Avenging Executioner(Scoundrel) is more of a punisher style but still pretty decent choice. Though he is a lot closer to assassin in levels of his aggression and brutality.

Hell even Kensai(CW), Paladin of Freedom(UA), Urban Soul(RoD) & Gray Guard(Scoundrel) are all still batman material as they can pledge to the cause I guess(may be some fluff needed to be waved-ish).

And with Factotum (especially human Able Learner) you can have any skills you want, just maybe not as many...

All and all, maybe you are looking for this type of play-style more than a merciless killer? ^^ (even if alignment is fast and loose, Assassin still stands are alone in how much deliberation he usually has when compared with the rest I mentioned ^^, but that's just my opinion I guess ^^)
=========================================>

Btw what Chronos said is also rather a good idea. Though I though its rather expensive? Not sure. *EDIT* nvm, read it fully, its awesome idea, might just steal it ^^

[Talionis]

If you want to use the Assassin class to actually assassinate people, one trick I like is to combine the feat Arterial Strike (Complete Scoundrel, I think, or maybe Adventurer) with the spell Cursed Weapon (Spell Compendium). Arterial Strike means that your target loses HP every round until the damage from the attack is cured. Cursed Weapon means that the damage from your weapon can't be cured without a Remove Curse. So unless your target has a Remove Curse handy very quickly, they're going to die. And if they do get a Remove Curse that quickly, then you just come back out of the shadows and do it again, since the duration of your spell is probably still running. This is much more reliable than the Death Attack ability, and both more reliable and cheaper than poisons.

I like this, I like it a lot.

[JonRG]

*suggestions for being a Batman*

Don't think Dread wants to be Batman. Just the description I gave kinda sounds like Batman. I think he's going for a gishsassin who doesn't need too much gear to murder faces. Aside from his mixed heritage and his profession, I don't know much else about his character concept.

[NiteCyper]

I don't think we're be able to see magic items a lot so I think the best way is to make an equipment indipendant type of character. This is what i got in mind: factotum to 3rd lvl for brains over brawn, swashbuckler to fill the prerequisites for an assassin prestige class cuz i still need to be at least lvl 5 to enter a prc and i dont like the rogue class in this build. I still like roleplaying and rogue doesn't quite fit my char and i could also go to swash 3 for the better dmg.Factotum 3/Swashbuckler 3 (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2469.0) is solid.


Also there is this daggerspell mage prc that i like and i can enter it with factotum and practiced spellcaster or assassin and practiced spellcaster, right?Your mention of "that daggerspell mage prc that you like" reminds me of this thread (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2728.0), in which the "daggerspell mage prc" is mentioned.


maybe arcane trickster too...Your mention of "arcane trickster" reminds me of this this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228109), in which "arcane trickster" is mentioned.


So if I've got this right, you want a medium-OP, intelligent, less gear reliant noble-by-day/assassin-by-night?Ahaha, classical antiquity Batman...except for the part about less gear and assassination. I got ninjaed before I even posted:
...Batman? Is that you? :smalleek:
Aside from the "not gear reliant" part, kinda yeah. :smallamused:There are nobility (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12520795&postcount=11) mechanics.


This is what i got in mind: factotum to 3rd lvl for brains over brawn, swashbuckler to fill the prerequisites for an assassin prestige class cuz i still need to be at least lvl 5 to enter a prc and i dont like the rogue class in this build. I still like roleplaying and rogue doesn't quite fit my charI don't understand what you're saying about "the rogue class". Why is it that "you dont like the rogue class in this build"? Why is it that "rogue doesn't quite fit your char"? Is it for roleplay or mechanical reason(s)? Your last statement implies that "the rogue class" stops you from roleplaying.

I dont like rogue being more focused on sneak attack than other stuff and i don't like to be so much focused on sneak attack damage.Check this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue) out.


edit: i don't like craven roleplayingwise cuz i dont feel like a cowardI don't like craven roleplayingwise cuz it's nonsequitur. "Like most sly rogues, you are a dangerous coward" because Hashishin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassins) assassinated publicly and without self-preservation post-homicide.1 Do you, coward?


factotum 6 doesnt mean to much to me, factotum 8lvl feature is nice but a waste of my levels if you ask meAction economy (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7015.msg229394#msg229394) is golden.


Add the Shadow Creature Template and then buy off the +1 LA to get hide in Plane Sight to make that combo last longer.Mind, "the Shadow Creature Template" has +2 LA. They may be referring to the Dark creature template which only has +1 LA and grants "hide in Plane Sight" too.


also it is oriental content that doesn't quite fit my view d&dD&D is a melting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melting_pot) potluck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potluck). I mean vampires, lycanthropy,
magic, psionics, mysteries, truenaming, the Sublime Way, shadow, fey, and dragons? Next you'll be saying "a housecat isn't genuinely scary to a level one character" or "dungeons or dragons do not fit my view of d&d". *reviews Iaijutsu Focus fluff* "Use this skill to gather your personal energy (ki)." *reviews the meaning of iaijutsu" "Iaijutsu technique may be used aggressively to wage a premeditated surprise attack against an unsuspecting enemy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iaijutsu)"

Fancy Japanese name aside, iaijutsu just catches an enemy off-guard by going directly from sheath to attack and back. Nothing inherently oriental about it.
Nyarai's right, though it is silly (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2774.msg33442#msg33442) to imagine continuous Iaijutsu Focus application.


poison advice
more poison advicepoison advice (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2714.0)


Can you at least go Chameleon?
i could but it doesn't fit my char
What about that would make you worse at being an assassin??
your suggestions are wellcome, other thing is using themOther than the fact that it's hard to understand what you mean by "other thing is using them", a Half-Elf's best chance of entering the Chameleon PrC is using the half-human and human-like variants sidebar ruling in Races of Destiny.


I get that the human body has several weak points, some incredibly obscure. I just don't think a ring nicking the skin for one point of damage (followed by obscene d6s, I guess) as you described could get to any of the fatal ones. It would be up to the DM if that worked, which was great for you because you were the DM.I tried to nick someone with poison without them knowing. The DM wouldn't let me choose how much damage I did and I confirmed a critical. Although annoying ruling, the debacle that followed was hysterical.


Why would you think other stats suddenly have no modifiers? How in your mind a pure Factotum lives?O_o You'll always have at least ONE (if u rolled crappy, or point buy is low) to fall back on, which would either be Dex, or Str. By lvl 3, all of the primary duties (besides an actual attack) are under Intellect domain as it is ^^.



As DM, I mostly look thru mountains of books/forum rulings/erratas before I even ask my players for a vote on a ruling. However, by very very simple RAW it works perfectly ^_^ And if an argument derails into RAI, it has a lot more grounds derived from medicine, history and etc.


Which bring a more important question, with all the limitations on Death Attack as it is, why would anyone want to nerf it?O_O With all possible shenanigans I've mentioned we are again light-years away from any true questionable content where wizards live and strive = P All I'm doing is trying to show that Factotum/Assassin played like an ASSASSIN is a valid tier3-ish member. Maybe on the very bottom of said tier, but still hanging on and shouting obscenities ^^ I mean, it is usually all in play style anyway ^^. With 3.5 it is more difficult to exploit play-style on it own, but with some grasp on a system it can be done ^^


Quick silver boots are 3500... Unless MiC is just voided, this is basic stuff (goes for attack Crystals too). Braces of Murder are from DoTU. This can be iffy. But you know, win some loose some ^^ An adamantine dagger is STILL useful to keep around. What if you want to cut thru wall, wolverine-Style? ^^ Or open a particularly nasty can of preserved beans? ^^I concur. ^^2


Alignments are overrated. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12492045&postcount=4)


1According to http://researchintoothersects.blogspot.com/2011/05/assassins-radical-sect-in-islam-by.html Search "escape"
2 Killer cuteness. To avoid complication, they prefaced: first-time poster. In conversation, they emoted just like a teenager.

[Red_Dog]

To all, apologies if this post is almost entirely off-topic.


2 Killer cuteness. To avoid complication, they prefaced: first-time poster. In conversation, they emoted just like a teenager.

I am in general, a theatrically-inclined individual. I also have just joined these forums, so unless you really wanted to point that out, I am not quite sure what you are getting at?O_o

If the "^^" or "O_o" are disallowed via forum policy, I do apologies, however otherwise, I would politely ask you to keep personal comments to yourself.

If you however had a critique about what I have suggested, I welcome any of those comments as that is why we are here for, after all ^^. If some of your comments were a critique, I would ask you to rephrase them as I did not understand them properly than.

P.S. Alignment system while is completely and utterly broken IMO(catering to black & wight thinking, & etc.), however when implemented even by RAW standards, still can help describe some personality traits of an individual.

However, the point was the actual "required act". Whether deemed evil or good, the act spells deliberation and commitment to own goals. In this case the "Avenger" class could have been summarized by errata to an existing Assassin with a wording similar too => [for each alignment, DM can right up an act similar in deliberation value to "murder as admission" when joining a particular organization that provides training".

The Islamic link is indeed interesting, however this isn't exactly how they are described in DMG. Whether this is Un/Fortunate is debatable. However, they are described as "Hitman", not liberator[while having maybe some room to be one's described by "agent of vengeance" in 3rd sentence of their entry].

As I've stated, there are plenty applicants for the "liberator role" other than Assassin.

[NiteCyper]

Yo, what the heck man?
You know what I was referencing, right?. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAf2S6ij2gk&ob=av2e)I decided to keep "teenager" because it rhymed and figured that you'd gimme that, however...inapt. I am sorry that you were offended.




Just a heads up. Unless your DM lets you=> Dagger-spell mage is not compatible with Assassin as it non-evil only, where Assassin is Evil only.
Alignments are overrated. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12492045&postcount=4)P.S. Alignment system while is completely and utterly broken IMO(catering to black & wight thinking, & etc.), however when implemented even by RAW standards, still can help describe some personality traits of an individual.

However, the point was the actual "required act". Whether deemed evil or good, the act spells deliberation and commitment to own goals. In this case the "Avenger" class could have been summarized by errata to an existing Assassin with a wording similar too => [for each alignment, DM can right up an act similar in deliberation value to "murder as admission" when joining a particular organization that provides training".
However, the point was the actual "required alignment". Whether deemed killer or pacifist, one's alignment spells allowance or disallowance to Dagger-spell mage or Assassin. In this case I wasn't responding to Assassin commitment.


The Islamic link is indeed interesting, however this isn't exactly how they are described in DMG. Whether this is Un/Fortunate is debatable. However, they are described as "Hitman", not liberator[while having maybe some room to be one's described by "agent of vengeance" in 3rd sentence of their entry].
Indeed, Hashishin aren't described in the DMG at all. Again, my mention of Hashishin was not in response to Assassin commitment. I mentioned it in regards to Craven.


As I've stated, there are plenty applicants for the "liberator role" other than Assassin.
I make no mention of "liberator role" and either does the OP. I have a hard time finding evidence that Hashishin were liberators neither, which is what you seem to believe since you mention it at all.

[Red_Dog]

You know what I was referencing, right?.I decided to keep "teenager" because it rhymed and figured that you'd gimme that, however...inapt. I am sorry that you were offended.

I am unsure what were you referencing. I am familiar with term "Killer Cuteness", usually in my experience it is used as condescending at least (along with some other stereotypical forum dwellers... I used to read Flame warriors].

If however I "read into things", I'll be happy to withdraw any hostility ^^.
It can happen, I suppose no harm no foul ^^


I make no mention of "liberator role". Either does the OP. I have a hard time finding evidence that Hashishin were liberators neither, which is what you seem to believe since you mention it at all.

That was kind of a follow up on you link => http://researchintoothersects.blogspot.com/2011/05/assassins-radical-sect-in-islam-by.html

Interestingly, in those accounts, the Assassins exemplify daring and devotion rather than terror and murder. There is a sense of amazement at their loyalty to their beliefs.

I just figured I'd mention that their was one "liberator role" mentioned in DMG, to give that link some ground.
*EDIT NOTE*, I might have misread one of the historical links you showed, however I did wanted to point out that Original DMG assassin's description had "The Avenger" reference in terms of liberators.

As far as commitment comment. Thing is, role-playing intentions of most characters are not the same as most players come to understand them. As in its a wide spread fact amongst players that your afterlife is to accordance to your alignment/god worshiped, or there are in fact afterlives at all. Average character however (besides being a wizards and the rest of tier1 brigade) do not really know it unless he literally been to 9 hells, Abyss, Celestia, Limbo & etc.

IMO, these are the facts that are taken for granted a tidy bit too much. I understand there is convenience to it("yea, lets charge, we'll get resd later" deal and etc.) but It seems that such ideas are rather detrimental to role-playing... Than again it might be just me.

P.S. Regardless, I think we side-tracked ENOUGH, so this would be my last sidetracking as I don't want to derail the thread into something terrible. ^^

[Chronos]

I tried to nick someone with poison without them knowing. The DM wouldn't let me choose how much damage I did and I confirmed a critical. Although annoying ruling, the debacle that followed was hysterical.
That's what the Mosquito's Bite skill trick is for.

[NiteCyper]

That's what the Mosquito's Bite skill trick is for.

I'm pretty sure that the game in which that occurred was conducted before the publication of Complete Scoundrel(, Tome of Battle, and Complete Mage. Back before the conversion of 339 to Gleemax). Secondly, I don't think that I was at a high enough level to take advantage of it, had it existed. Reference: "Prerequisite: Sleight of Hand 12 ranks." (Complete Scoundrel, page 87) Thirdly, the skill trick only delays hit-detection. "Instead, that opponent reacts as if you had attacked and missed." Annoying since there'd be a hostile reaction anyway, leaving little use for the trick. The victim would still have a gaping gash from the critical hit.

[DreadWarlock]

what is this mosquito bite usefull for

[NiteCyper]

what is this mosquito bite usefull for

Stylin' (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouAreAlreadyDead).. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SingleStrokeBattle)

[DreadWarlock]

@ Nyarai: what's the deal with level 10? i can enter the class after lvl 6 if i go factotum3/swashbuckler3/assassin1 with practiced spellcaster (Benefit: Your caster level for the chosen spellcasting class increases by 4)

[DreadWarlock]

also is there a way to make a melee attack as a ranged attack... like slashing something in the distance with my knives, like a spell, feat, prc option...

[NiteCyper]

also is there a way to make a melee attack as a ranged attack... like slashing something in the distance with my knives, like a spell, feat, prc option...

Bloodstorm Blade PrC in Tome of Battle.

[Red_Dog]

Stylin' (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouAreAlreadyDead).. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SingleStrokeBattle)

Finally, we agree on something. lol.



also is there a way to make a melee attack as a ranged attack... like slashing something in the distance with my knives, like a spell, feat, prc option...


Make? probably The Bloodstorm blade, but You can just GET throwing weapons. Throwing weapons use dex, which if you are going with finesse route is the same stat.

[DreadWarlock]

so I was thinking if initiative is a dex check are attack rolls str (or dex for ranged) checks?

[Darrin]

Make? probably The Bloodstorm blade, but You can just GET throwing weapons. Throwing weapons use dex, which if you are going with finesse route is the same stat.

There's also a couple spells: blood wind, which allows you to make ranged attacks with your natural weapons/unarmed strikes, and whirling blade, which makes melee attacks in a 60' line. Both of those are in the Spell Compendium, and while they're not on the Assassin spell list, you can get wands + wand chambers (100 GP, Dungeonscape) and use UMD.

[DreadWarlock]

wands and other magic items are not likely to be found... not for sale or what we desire... maybe a random magic item or something... I don't have spell compedium, is it on the wizard spell list? factotum can cast from wizard spell list

[Darrin]

wands and other magic items are not likely to be found... not for sale or what we desire... maybe a random magic item or something... I don't have spell compedium, is it on the wizard spell list? factotum can cast from wizard spell list

Yes, blood wind is Wiz/Sor 1 and whirling blade is Wiz/Sor 2. I forgot about the Factotum part, that should work fine. Whirling blade is also in Complete Arcane, and blood wind first appeared in Savage Species.

[Chronos]

Oh, and the other use for Mosquito Bite is when you're attacking from hiding, and your opponent doesn't even know you're there until they feel the hit. If they don't feel the hit, even if only for a round, that's an extra round where they don't know you're there.

Yes, attacking from hiding puts a substantial penalty on your Hide check, but especially with a Factotum, it's not hard to get your check high enough to do it anyway.

[Tyndmyr]

If being a gnome is ok, gnomish quickrazor is a fantastic option in concert with Iajitsu Focus.

[Rubik]

so I was thinking if initiative is a dex check are attack rolls str (or dex for ranged) checks?Nope. Initiative is explicitly described as a Dex check in its description. There's nothing anywhere (far as I know, anyway) that describes attack rolls as such.


There's also a couple spells: blood wind, which allows you to make ranged attacks with your natural weapons/unarmed strikes, and whirling blade, which makes melee attacks in a 60' line. Both of those are in the Spell Compendium, and while they're not on the Assassin spell list, you can get wands + wand chambers (100 GP, Dungeonscape) and use UMD.Assassins are arcane casters. Any arcane caster, regardless of class, can use eternal wands without a skill check. What're the levels on those spells?

[DreadWarlock]

the problem is that i wouldn't count on magic items that much...

[DreadWarlock]

I came to this point in game where I was asked to join the cult of Demogorgon, and also got some nifty daggers that have wierd powers that i dont know jet how to control. So the question: Is Thrall to Demogorgon a good prestige class and is it optimizable cuz it would be fun if i became a member of this cult