[PF] Seagoing Skills and Feats

[SpaceBadger]

I've been looking through the Pathfinder classes, archetypes, and PrCs, and beyond having someone take ranks in Profession (Sailor) I don't see much to designate someone as having special skills or abilities applicable to seagoing adventures. Am I missing something?

Sure, common sailors could all be Commoners with Profession (sailor), and use that skill on checks for various actions aboard ship, but what about seagoing raiders of the Viking type, or pirates? Is there some different skill or feat for being able to steer the ship, navigate, give necessary orders, and other things that not every common sailor should know? Are there any feats for sealegs or somesuch to enable one accustomed to a ship's deck to fight better there than a landlubber would?

ObOOTS related question: What skill enabled Roy to use a sextant to find their way in the desert? Is that just considered to be something that all fighters know how to do?

[Greenish]

At least in 3.5, Know (Geography) is used to navigate a ship. Knowing what orders to give falls under Profession, knowing how to give them under being able to speak.

Doesn't PF have it's own pirate book/setting type thingy? I believe you'd have best luck with it. Otherwise, lots of Stormwreck (3.5 book) can probably be directly ported over.

[CTrees]

I'd guess Roy was probably using Knowledge: Geography, with the sextant being a MW tool to aid that check.

As for Pathfinder... There's the Pirate Rogue archetype, Sea Reaver Barbarians, any number of aquatic wizard/sorceror/druid options (ex., squid animal companions, the Water school for Wizards), the Shackles Pirate prestige class, rules for ship-to-ship combat, much of the Inner Sea campaign setting (there's a full-sized splat for this, on par with the APG and Ultimate Combat/Magic for this, plus additional resources), Spirit of the Waters (elf) and Water Child (half-elf) alternate racial features, and so on, without getting into feats, spells, or items. Heck, they even have Merfolk and Undine as no-RHD/0LA player races. Seems like PF has already given A LOT of support to those who want to have a seafaring background, backed up by crunch.

[SpaceBadger]

Thanks, guys.

OK, I found the Pirate Rogue and Sea Reaver Barbarian - I had not realized there are more new archetypes in Ultimate Combat. From the entry on Pirate Rogue, it appears there is a Sea Legs feat also in Ultimate Combat, but no explanation of why that isn't also a class ability for the Sea Reaver, or why the Pirate doesn't get some of the Sea Reaver class abilities. (Shackles Pirate seems to be a PrC from some setting book, but the page I found googling just says "Campaign Setting" without giving the book title, and didn't give any detail on the class.)

Any ideas on how to distinguish ship's officers from common sailors, as the skills would be quite different? Maybe just make that a different Profession skill, that would stack with Profession (Sailor) for things that they should have in common?

I'm not much concerned w Aquatic types at this point, more looking for stuff about folks on ships.

Anybody want to recommend some 3.5 stuff I should look at to adapt to PF?

[CTrees]

(Shackles Pirate seems to be a PrC from some setting book, but the page I found googling just says "Campaign Setting" without giving the book title, and didn't give any detail on the class.)

First, the SRD has all the details on the PrC. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/shackles-pirate)

Second, this is the book. (http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/p/paizoPublishingLLC/pathfinder/campaignSetting/35E/v5748btpy84eo) The title... isn't all that conducive to productive googling, unfortunately (thus, your suboptimal results).

Oh, and here is Sea Legs. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/sea-legs) Not particularly good, but it does give that "sailor" feel.



Any ideas on how to distinguish ship's officers from common sailors, as the skills would be quite different? Maybe just make that a different Profession skill, that would stack with Profession (Sailor) for things that they should have in common?

I don't have any boat-specific ideas, per se, but you could go with NPC-classed sailors versus PC-classed officers. A druid officer, using weather control spells to assist the voyage, or a bard officer of the watch using inspire competence, or a wizard/cleric, binding air and water elementals to speed the ship?


Anybody want to recommend some 3.5 stuff I should look at to adapt to PF?

Stormwrack. Definitely Stormwrack.

[grarrrg]

From the entry on Pirate Rogue, it appears there is a Sea Legs feat also in Ultimate Combat, but no explanation of why that isn't also a class ability for the Sea Reaver, or why the Pirate doesn't get some of the Sea Reaver class abilities.
....
Any ideas on how to distinguish ship's officers from common sailors, as the skills would be quite different?

PFSRD (http://www.d20pfsrd.com)is your friend.
Sea Reaver Barb (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/paizo---barbarian-archetypes/sea-reaver)
Pirate Rogue (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/pirate)
Shackles Pirate PrC (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/shackles-pirate) (Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting)
Sea Legs Feat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/sea-legs)

First off, Sea Reaver and Pirate are _different_ classes with different abilities.
Secondly, while the Sea Reaver does get Sea Legs for free, it DOES get a scaling bonus to the same skills (and more!). And there is nothing stopping if from taking Sea Legs as a feat anyway (other than 5 ranks in a skill you'll already have).

The low level Sailors (level 1 or 2) should mostly be Rogues (for the Free Sea Legs feat).
The mid level Sailors (level 3+) should skew towards Barbarians for the overall better bonuses.
The high level "officers" are probably better off as mixed Rogue/Barb, recommend at least 2 levels of Rogue and 3 levels of Barb.

The Captain almost NEEDS to be a Shackles Pirate.
The pre-reqs are various skills at 5 ranks, 3 Bab, and 2d6 Sneak Attack. 3 levels of Rogue gets you the Sneak attack, 2 levels of most anything else will get you to 5 ranks and the last Bab.

[jmelesky]

ObOOTS related question: What skill enabled Roy to use a sextant to find their way in the desert? Is that just considered to be something that all fighters know how to do?

Survival (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/survival.htm) is the skill you use to "Keep from getting lost or avoid natural hazards, such as quicksand". In PF, at least, a sextant (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services#TOC-Sextant) specifically gives a bonus to Survival checks (not sure about 3.5).

[Psyren]

Not paizo, but Maenads (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/races/maenad) also have natural sailing skill. It's a bit random but there it is.

[Belril Duskwalk]

A few ranks in the Swim skill would obviously be useful for avoiding an accidental slip becoming a lethal mistake. Knowledge (Nature) is potentially useful in predicting the weather, which could save you from storm-related hassles or for helping your vessel to find the best winds if it's Sail powered. And of course climbing and acrobatics are good for navigating the rigging of a ship, which is why they are boosted by Sea Legs.

[Greenish]

Knowledge (Nature) is potentially useful in predicting the weatherI believe Survival is the skill used for predicting weather. 3.5 also allows you to use Profession (Sailor) check for it when sailing.

[Edit]: Not to say Know (Nature) won't come in handy.

[foram3438]

Thanks, guys.

OK, I found the Pirate Rogue and Sea Reaver Barbarian - I had not realized there are more new archetypes in Ultimate Combat. From the entry on Pirate Rogue, it appears there is a Sea Legs feat also in Ultimate Combat, but no explanation of why that isn't also a class ability for the Sea Reaver, or why the Pirate doesn't get some of the Sea Reaver class abilities. (Shackles Pirate seems to be a PrC from some setting book, but the page I found googling just says "Campaign Setting" without giving the book title, and didn't give any detail on the class.)

Any ideas on how to distinguish ship's officers from common sailors, as the skills would be quite different? Maybe just make that a different Profession skill, that would stack with Profession (Sailor) for things that they should have in common?

I'm not much concerned w Aquatic types at this point, more looking for stuff about folks on ships.

Anybody want to recommend some 3.5 stuff I should look at to adapt to PF?

You can assign roles to your PC's.

Captain: STR or CHA
Cpt’s are elected by the crew and need to possess leadership and courage qualities. During chase and battle, the cpt’s power is absolute and he can discipline anyone who disobeyed his orders. He also has life or death power over anyone taken prisoner. He decides when plunder is divided.

Required skill: Profession- sailor. Optional Profession- navigation.

Quartermaster: CON or CHA
Next in line after the captain in exercising authority. Whenever the ship is not in chase or battle, the quartermaster makes most of the decisions regarding day-to-day activities and often has authority over the captain on many routine matters. His main function is to protect the crew against each other by maintaining order, settling squabbles, and distributing food. He also
usually keeps the account books of the ship. He can punish crew for disobedience. Often leads any boarding action being the FIRST to board. Also, he decides what plunder to take. He speaks on the crews behalf when they dislike the cpt’s decision. If an enemy ship is captured, he often takes over as the captain of the ship.

Required skill: Profession- sailor.

Sailing Master: DEX or WIS
Officer in charge of navigating and the actual sailing of the ship. He determines the course and looks after any and all instruments needed to navigate the ship. He HAS AUTHORITY ONLY over the pilot. He reports to quartermaster or captain as appropriate.

Required skill: Profession- sailor and navigation.

Pilot: DEX WIS
Officer in charge of the actual piloting of the ship. He steers the ship and reports to sailing master, quartermaster or captain as appropriate. The pilot HAS NO AUTHORITY and cannot give any orders.

Required skill: Profession- sailor and pilot.

Boatswain or Bos’n: INT or DEX
Supervise the maintenance of the ship and its naval provisions (tar, pitch, tallow, spare sails, etc). He must inspect the ship, sails, riggings each day and report to quartermaster or captain as appropriate. Also in charge of all deck activities (weighing or dropping anchor, handling of the sails, etc.).

Required skill: Profession- sailor.

Carpenter: STR or WIS
His duty is the maintenance, repair, and modification to any of the ship’s wooden parts (hull, masts, decks, furniture, siege weapons, etc.). He works under the orders of the Bos’n. He checks the deck regularly and repairing as needed. The carpenter HAS NO AUTHORITY and cannot give any orders. However, he receives a slightly larger share than the rest of the crew on
most ships.

Required skill: Profession- sailor and Craft- carpenter. Optional Profession- siege engineer, ship engineer.

Sailmaker: DEX or WIS
Responsible for the maintenance, repair, and replacement of sails and flag. He works under the orders of the Bos’n. He checks the sails regularly and repairing as needed. HAS NO AUTHORITY and cannot give any orders and reports to quartermaster or captain as appropriate.

Required skills: Profession- sailor and Craft- sail making.

Master Gunner: WIS or INT
Accountable for the ships armament and ammunition. He must insure that siege weapons are in perfect working condition at all times. He must be able to calculate ordnance trajectory without hesitation.

Required skills: Profession- sailor and siege artillery. Optional Profession- siege engineer.

I do not recommend Stormwrack..useless book when it comes to naval combat.

[foram3438]

Survival (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/survival.htm) is the skill you use to "Keep from getting lost or avoid natural hazards, such as quicksand". In PF, at least, a sextant (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services#TOC-Sextant) specifically gives a bonus to Survival checks (not sure about 3.5).

You can use survival to have an idea of where you are. BUT, to use a sextant I will play it as having Profession Navigation since it is a complex instrument used for it that needs training. I am not saying you need to have the profession to use the instrument. Having the profession will grant you the bonus provided by the instrument plus allows you to pinpoint with acuracy your location. Think about it. Anyone can look through a sextant. Would they know what they are looking at or what the declination means? Most likely not. With the Navigation profession you are able to do it.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by foram3438
*nautical stuff*

So, that's an interesting rundown on captain and crew. Where's that drawn from?