rule questions

[Bloodymango]

after playing the last session with my group we encounters 2 questions that none of us had answers for. and a third point another player brought up. first of all we will start with question all of us were pretty sure on. if a character has a +4 armor can he cast magic vestment on it to improve the armor to +6 if he is a 8 level caster. pretty sure they wouldnt stack, but just to clear this up. the other 2 questions were of the main concern. if a creature is immune to crit hits, (e.g. zombie) and a character wields a acidic burst and rolls a 20 on the die does he get the extra dmg. RAW says In addition, the weapon automatically
showers an opponent with acid upon a successful critical hit. but some of us felt that the character that wields that weapon. when he attacks and rolls a nat 20 we though that the attack would be a really fluid strike this causes the weapon to activate. Myself and one other in our group member in our group felt like it should be a RAI saying that just bc a zombi doesnt have a vital spot doest mean my weapon cant erupt in a shower of acid.

the next question involves weather. our bard had an item that created a tornado. this makes all ranged attacks goin in our coming out impossible. one player (DM) was using a wizard to cast scorching ray at us. now this is a ranged touch attack. can it done. dose wind affect magic

[Bloodymango]

also is there a better version of magic vestments. or some other spell to boost armor

[Kumori]

First question: The enhancement bonus on the armor would not stack with the enhancement bonus given by the spell, so the armor would gain no benefit from casting magic vestment.

Second question: The triggered on a crit magic will function against immune to crit monsters. From the srd:


Magic Weapons and Critical Hits

Some weapon qualities and some specific weapons have an extra effect on a critical hit. This special effect functions against creatures not subject to critical hits, such as undead, elementals, and constructs. When fighting against such creatures, roll for critical hits as you would against humanoids or any other creature subject to critical hits. On a successful critical roll, apply the special effect, but do not multiply the weapon’s regular damage.

I don't know the answer to the third question. I'd need the exact text of the spell or effect.

[tyckspoon]

+4 Armor is an armor with a +4 Enhancement bonus. Magic Vestments also adds an enhancement bonus. Same bonus types do not stack, with very few and explicit exceptions. If you can manage to acquire a casting of Magic Vestments at Caster Level 20, so it gives a +5 bonus, that will supercede the armor's own enhancement for the duration of the spell (ie, as long as that casting lasts it will be effectively +5 instead of +4), but that roughly falls under 'Same Effect In Different Strengths' instead of stacking.

Crit effects against crit-immune targets: There actually is a specific rule about this.

Magic Weapons and Critical Hits

Some weapon qualities and some specific weapons have an extra effect on a critical hit. This special effect functions against creatures not subject to critical hits, such as undead, elementals, and constructs. When fighting against such creatures, roll for critical hits as you would against humanoids or any other creature subject to critical hits. On a successful critical roll, apply the special effect, but do not multiply the weapon’s regular damage.

So yes, the [Elemental] Burst properties and other 'when you crit' properties still work, although the specific target may still be immune to that effect anyway.

Tornados: Spell effects are generally not the kinds of 'ranged attacks' that wind effects are supposed to be referring to, but without actual distinction in the rules 'ranged attack' does refer to anything that is a: at range and b: needs an attack roll to hit. So ask your DM, basically, and make a note of how he answers because you'll probably need to know yourself sooner or later. Note that a tornado may also block sight through it (especially in areas with sufficient dust and/or loose soil), which will prevent accurate targeting of most spells.

[King Atticus]

3] If you read the description of the different degrees of wind it specifically says ranged weapon attacks. I would say that it does not effect magic unless it was something like launch bolt that uses a weapon of some sort.

[W3bDragon]

You are correct that magic vestment from an 8th level caster wouldn't improve a +4 armor. To boost armor in this case, you'd benefit from spells that boost AC through other types of modifiers. Barkskin gives a natural armor bonus which would stack with a +4 armor. The Shield spell grants a shield bonus which also stacks.

As for the tornado effect, as long as the wizard's line of sight on the target isn't hampered, he can fire his scorching ray. I'm comparing the effect to a Wind Wall effect, which only affects mundane ranged attacks, not magical ones.

As for the burst on crit immunes. This one is up to interpretation.

The language on the burst weapons indicates that you must score a successful critical hit. Crit immune monsters negate the crit with all of its effects, including the burst.

I know it would make more sense for the burst to still happen, but the text doesn't agree.

[marcielle]

Rays can be combined with weapon focus, strangely enough, so there might be some overlap as to the whole weapon/spell thing.

Anyway, here are the wind rules ripped from the SRD:


Strong Wind

Gusts that automatically extinguish unprotected flames (candles, torches, and the like). Such gusts impose a -2 penalty on ranged attack rolls and on Listen checks.

Severe Wind

In addition to automatically extinguishing any unprotected flames, winds of this magnitude cause protected flames (such as those of lanterns) to dance wildly and have a 50% chance of extinguishing these lights. Ranged weapon attacks and Listen checks are at a -4 penalty. This is the velocity of wind produced by a gust of wind spell.

Windstorm

Powerful enough to bring down branches if not whole trees, windstorms automatically extinguish unprotected flames and have a 75% chance of blowing out protected flames, such as those of lanterns. Ranged weapon attacks are impossible, and even siege weapons have a -4 penalty on attack rolls. Listen checks are at a -8 penalty due to the howling of the wind.

Hurricane-Force Wind

All flames are extinguished. Ranged attacks are impossible (except with siege weapons, which have a -8 penalty on attack rolls). Listen checks are impossible: All characters can hear is the roaring of the wind. Hurricane-force winds often fell trees.

As you can see, it states ATTACK ROLLS and RANGED ATTACKS for strong and hurricane.

So, except for 'Severe Wind and Windstorm' levels, ray would be affected just as a mundane ranged attack. At 'Severe Wind', rays should just invoke 'Strong Wind' penalties( because the wind speed must pass strong level before it can reach severe).

[Acanous]

Note: if the Armor in question has no magical Enhancement bonus (IE: it's a Chain Shirt you're asking about, which provides +4 armor but has no Enhancement bonus) then yes, casting Magic Vestment will improve the total bonus of the armor to +6.

[Ashtagon]

after playing the last session with my group we encounters 2 questions that none of us had answers for. and a third point another player brought up. first of all we will start with question all of us were pretty sure on. if a character has a +4 armor can he cast magic vestment on it to improve the armor to +6 if he is a 8 level caster. pretty sure they wouldnt stack, but just to clear this up. the other 2 questions were of the main concern. if a creature is immune to crit hits, (e.g. zombie) and a character wields a acidic burst and rolls a 20 on the die does he get the extra dmg. RAW says In addition, the weapon automatically
showers an opponent with acid upon a successful critical hit. but some of us felt that the character that wields that weapon. when he attacks and rolls a nat 20 we though that the attack would be a really fluid strike this causes the weapon to activate. Myself and one other in our group member in our group felt like it should be a RAI saying that just bc a zombi doesnt have a vital spot doest mean my weapon cant erupt in a shower of acid.

the next question involves weather. our bard had an item that created a tornado. this makes all ranged attacks goin in our coming out impossible. one player (DM) was using a wizard to cast scorching ray at us. now this is a ranged touch attack. can it done. dose wind affect magic

1. - magic armour bonus is enhancment bonus, just like the bonus from magic vestment spell. So as you said, they do not stack.

2. - acidic blast (epic weapon ability) does weapon damage and acid damage on any normal hit, and against crit-vulnerable enemies, extra weapon and extra acid damage. If the monster is crit-immune, you don't get the extra acid damage. You still get the normal acid damage as for another other non-crit hit though.

(if there is an acidic burst weapon, it doesn't seem to be in the SRD)

Assuming that it is basically a flaming burst with fire swapped with acid, it still doesn't do any extra damage on a critical hit -- just the base weapon damage plus the base fireacid damage. Fluff this how you like, but RAW says it follows critical hit rules. Perhaps the critical hit would normally mean the acid can be 'injected' in a more vulnerable area, but in creatures immune to critical hits, there are no especially vulnerable locations the acid could enter, so the acid damage doesn't get multiplied.

Of course, if the critter is immune to acid, it doesn't matter anyway.

3. - weather.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/weather.htm#powerfulStorms

Technically, the rules do say ranged touch attacks (as a subset of ranged attacks) become impossible in a tornado-strength wind. I'm torn on this one. On one hand, it makes sense for magic not to be affected by mundane wind. otoh, as a balance issue it makes sense to remove magical artillery at the same time as mundane artillery.

Note that the fireball spell launches an actual pebble of sorts, so there is fluff justification in at least one spell for mundane winds to affect ranged touch attacks, if you expand that kind of fluff to ranged touch attacks generally. And ranged touch attacks are blocked by physical barriers, so they certainly can interact with the physical world (which includes the air) before reaching the intended target.

[Greenish]

(if there is an acidic burst weapon, it doesn't seem to be in the SRD)MIC page 28.


Assuming that it is basically a flaming burst with fire swapped with acid, it still doesn't do any extra damage on a critical hit -- just the base weapon damage plus the base fireacid damage.Except that Flaming/Acidic/Profane/Whatever Burst weapons deal extra damage on a crit (or a hit that would be crit were the target vulnerable to them). The relevant rules have already been cited several times in this very thread.

[Ashtagon]

MIC page 28.

Except that Flaming/Acidic/Profane/Whatever Burst weapons deal extra damage on a crit (or a hit that would be crit were the target vulnerable to them). The relevant rules have already been cited several times in this very thread.

When asking rules questions, if the item you are asking about isn't in the SRD, it is polite to mention which book it is in, to help those who want to help you.

I don't have access to my rules books right now, so I couldn't comment on an item in the MIC.