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WarKitty
2012-01-06, 04:19 PM
Disclaimer: I am not the DM of this group. I am however one of the two people in the group that has previous roleplaying games. We have two co-DM's that switch out; one has some previous experience.

Now, the newbies are making some attempt at roleplaying. The DM's definitely seem to be doing a good job in the world - so far the world and NPC's seem fairly well fleshed out. I also have been helping out with my character, as she is the apprentice of the town high priest (and thus has *slightly* different goals than the rest of the party). The main pitfall the players seem to be falling into is the generic elf trap. The characters aren't fleshed out as individuals, rather they seem to be the generic "elf ranger, hates roads, likes hunting and practicing archery."

I'd like to subtly encourage more roleplaying and character depth. My main strategy is trying small interactions with the characters when there's a lull in the action (e.g. ask the elf how he likes his rabbit cooked). I was wondering if the forum had any more ideas for how to encourage a bit more roleplaying and character depth without going overboard and annoying everyone else.

P.S. before anyone says it, I do think the group would find this fun! I just don't think they've gotten the idea yet.

NOhara24
2012-01-06, 04:47 PM
It's their first character, give them time. Some people just aren't good roleplayers/character builders. You can only go so far as a PC with helping them flesh out their character. It's up to the co-DMs to give them opportunities to make their characters more than "Hey, I'm like Legolas, but I'm left handed."

Terraoblivion
2012-01-06, 05:28 PM
Clearly, you need to put them through this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NprfkXPXRb4). (Lots of censored swearing.)

More seriously, I'm not sure what you can do. How interested do they seem in making more elaborate characters? There's a very good chance that they just don't care much. I remember the last RL game I had where even getting some players to say the name of their character was hard and all my attempts at engaging them fell flat. It only lasted one, not particularly interesting session.

WarKitty
2012-01-06, 06:10 PM
Clearly, you need to put them through this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NprfkXPXRb4). (Lots of censored swearing.)

More seriously, I'm not sure what you can do. How interested do they seem in making more elaborate characters? There's a very good chance that they just don't care much. I remember the last RL game I had where even getting some players to say the name of their character was hard and all my attempts at engaging them fell flat. It only lasted one, not particularly interesting session.

Actually, my impression was of interest but uncertainty/lack of confidence. It's more like they just hadn't thought of certain things, or were not sure that they could put together a good non-standard character. Like with the elf, I more got the idea that he'd never thought of an elf ranger that's not a hippie archer as a viable character.

NikitaDarkstar
2012-01-06, 06:25 PM
Honestly I don't think there is much more you can do other than probe them for more information every now and then like you're doing right now. As you said, they're new, it takes a while to develop.

But I suppose if one of the issues are general uncertainty (some people do get embarrassed easily when playing in an RL group and ends up just staying quiet and timid) is to act out (and possibly a little over-the-top when the situation calls for it) yourself and just generally show them that hey, it's ok to do that, and it's fun!

W3bDragon
2012-01-06, 07:33 PM
I have to agree with everyone else here that you should give them time. If they seem to be interested like you say, then its only a matter of time until they start to up their RP game so to speak.

However, if you really want to try to illicit some roleplaying out of them beyond the simple "I'm a dwarf and I love my mead" then try the following:

Look for something that a character does not have in common with his player, and focus on that aspect. For example, a generally chaotic guy playing a dwarf is put into a situation where the dwarf needs to respect dwarven customs, even when its a bit of an inconvenience, while the rest of the party would rather take the chaotic route and ignore the customs. The player would normally ignore the customs, but "what would your character do?"

Another example would be having a generally good guy having to put up with endless bureaucracy, when neither the player, nor even the rest of the party normally would, because of some other reason. Perhaps the bureaucrat in question is a childhood friend or someone who commands respect, but only from that character.

Forgive my poorly worded examples, blamed on lack of sleep, but the idea is to create situations where, you know how the player would react if he was playing himself as a character, but have good reason to suspect his actual character would act differently.

Jay R
2012-01-06, 09:21 PM
New players have enough to do to just understand the mechanics. There's a lot to absorb.

Be patient. Let them get used to rolling dice to swing swords and cast spells before they are ready to handle the rest.

Egiam
2012-01-07, 12:54 AM
^ I actually disagree with Jay R. I feel that roleplaying should ideally be the priority. When I teach beginners, I put stress on thinking about how your character would react to a given situation, regardless of the rule mechanics involved.

I've witnessed many new players adopt a mindset where the game turns into a board game which is interrupted occasionally by talking in a funny voice. I encourage players to roleplay all aspects of the game, including mundane things such as reacting to threats, planning attacks, and moving in a battle.

When a newcomer doesn't know what to do next, I will often ask them what their character would do given the circumstances, and have them describe it to me. I then walk them through how such an action would translate into the rules. Over time, they come to need my help less and less to the point where they are confident on their own.

Need_A_Life
2012-01-08, 12:50 AM
I think system matters.
In D&D, I'd most definitely focus on mechanics first, because there's a lot of them and they're not always intuitive. Occasionally, I'll show how "talking funny" or respecting local customs will grant benefits. As they grow more experienced, I'll focus on culture more than mechanics (when relevant; dungeon crawls, not so much).
As a starter system: :smallmad: (traditional, but steep learning curve)

If they were starting off with, say, World of Darkness, I'd tell them not to sweat it about mechanics. I'd assist them making a character and then do a quick Q&A (more for their benefit than mine) about who this person is. By the end of a campaign (or two), I expect them to know the system, but until then, there's few enough mechanics (within a given splat) that I'm fine with it.
As a starter system: :smallsmile: (interesting, but risky choice)

If they were starting off with FATE, I'd give them the 20min run-down of the rules I gave my current group, tell them that if we're in doubt about something during a session, we'll wing it and look it up later, and then make sure we've got a story to tell.
As a starter system: :smallbiggrin: (what are you waiting for?)

Socratov
2012-01-09, 06:31 AM
As a recently started out player myself I think I can relate here... yes, Jay R, new players have lot to absorb in their first game (especially when someone wants to go and grapple all the enemies), but you can 'condition' new players slightly by giving them choices and calling them by their character name (it sounds obvious, but it isn't really), . If the new player start reasoning in a way that is entirely different then how his character would reason (you will know how because he will have explained how his character works in the first session) gently steer him into the right way through a bit of NPC socialising. Repeatingly giving the new guy the choices to make will invite him into roleplaying (which is why a bard is such a great starting character). And before you know it he wil lpick it up himself. the great thing is that he will thik subconciously that he started it himself, so if he enjoyed it he will have an internal drive to continue that, and presto: a roleplayer is born :smallamused:

The best part? it will be independent of system mastery and (imho)increase the fun befor ehe cna back it up with crunch and optimisation.

Rorrik
2012-01-09, 12:15 PM
^ I actually disagree with Jay R. I feel that roleplaying should ideally be the priority. When I teach beginners, I put stress on thinking about how your character would react to a given situation, regardless of the rule mechanics involved.

I've witnessed many new players adopt a mindset where the game turns into a board game which is interrupted occasionally by talking in a funny voice. I encourage players to roleplay all aspects of the game, including mundane things such as reacting to threats, planning attacks, and moving in a battle.

When a newcomer doesn't know what to do next, I will often ask them what their character would do given the circumstances, and have them describe it to me. I then walk them through how such an action would translate into the rules. Over time, they come to need my help less and less to the point where they are confident on their own.

I share this sentiment to the extent that I still don't have that firm a grasp on the rules of systems I've played because they're just a system to help make things stable and predefined, the game for me is more about the roleplaying and problem solving than the number crunching. As long as I can get by and/or someone else knows the numbers, there's no reason to focus on them.

Tyndmyr
2012-01-09, 04:17 PM
1. Make roleplaying seem cool/attractive. Desire is 90% of everything. You can't force someone to do something they really don't want to do. Humor is great, so is badassery.

2. Make your characterization powerful. Turn things up to 11. My gnome isn't merely a bit greedy, he criticizes the dwarfs for being soft on their love of gold.

3. Never mistake detail for roleplaying. Sat, I spent ten minutes figuring out how to get away from a player discussing her love of a Stoat. There was no irony or humor here, just an adult woman describing the habits of a woodland creature in character. That's not a role, that's a lecture.

4. Be unique. Players naturally seek out a niche, and wish to distinguish themselves. You can be the grizzled fellow that wears a necklace made of the teeth of things you've killed, or the jovial fellow making witty remarks while escaping certain death. Just don't be the second one like that.

Do these things, teach them these things, and be patient.

Edit: Yes, I use char names at the table. It DEFINITELY helps. On the down side, if you are strangers, matching all the names and faces can take a bit, but it's still better than not using char names at all.