Alternative Mechanics for 3.5 Seafaring?

[Palanan]

I've just finished reading H.M.S. Surprise (http://www.amazon.com/Surprise-Vol-Aubrey-Maturin-Novels/dp/0393037037/), and I've been inspired to throw out my boring old campaign plans and work up a new storyline involving seafaring and exploration across the wine-dark sea. To the Bat-Cave! To the Bat-Shelf! To...Stormwrack!

Then I looked through Stormwrack.

I won't go into details, but the mechanics for ship movement are...unimpressive, and completely ignore almost everything that makes a sailing ship work. They seem to assume that one good sailing check allows you to skim around like a hovercraft, indifferent to wind and wave.

So, can anyone recommend a slightly more detailed set of mechanics, either homebrewed or from another d20 RPG? I know 7th Sea exists, but I've never seen any of the books. If they have better sailing rules I could be inspired to hunt them down, although I'm open to alternatives from just about any source.

[Coidzor]

I remember broaching this subject back in the day. Seemed that Spelljammer back in the day had some nice rules that you just had to nix the Z axis and you could use for sailing ships.

[Palanan]

Was Spelljammer ever updated to 3.0? I vaguely recall it was AD&D, and I never really looked at it back in the day. Would those mechanics mesh with 3.5?

[Coidzor]

Was Spelljammer ever updated to 3.0? I vaguely recall it was AD&D, and I never really looked at it back in the day. Would those mechanics mesh with 3.5?

Most of them could do so with some kludging was the prevailing sentiment, I've got some spelljammer books but things died down before I got a chance to crack them open and really see for myself.

There is a website (http://www.spelljammer.org/sj3e/#h_ShipsinWildspace) which got permission to update it to 3rd Edition, the url slips my mind but google should yield it readily. Unfortunately as with many things it's turned out rather incomplete. I believe the Dark Sun website, athas.org or sommat, was a fair bit more successful but ended up in a similar fashion.

[Palanan]

Looking through the 3E Spelljammer site, I can see what you mean--the planned scope of their conversion was impressive, although only a small portion has been completed so far. The last updates are from about ten years ago.

There are two or three different rulesets for maneuvering and fighting a vessel, with the most extensive listed under Ship Construction and Combat (http://lost.spelljammer.org/TBLIV/lsccs3e/). These seem fairly well thought-out, but they're designed around ships operating in Arcane Space and powered by a spelljamming helm, using some appropriately arcane physics. The rules specifically state that without an active helm, the ship can't move at all.

This is interesting, but a very different concept from the wind-driven ships I'll be using. What I'm really looking for is a ruleset that takes into account the effects of current and wind on fighting ships, as well as crew training, ship's condition, etc.

[bansidhe]

It may be worth looking at the cheap wargame sail rules,im fairly sure there is some for flying vessels too,you can usually pick these up for about a fiver and just fluff and cherry pick too your vision.


this one looks fun:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_at_Sea_(ruleset)

And here they are in a nutshell! :http://www.alt-world.com/alt-world/LOTR/undersail.htm

[foram3438]

get Broadsides Naval Adventuring (http://living-imagination.com/products_broadsides.asp)
you can get it through Amazon.

the book has very detailed naval mechanics and boarding party combat mechanics. Issue, it uses hexagons but you can changed it to square grid easily.

[dsmiles]

Mongoose has a series of sefaring books, if you can still find them. They're 3e, but easily converted to 3.5/PF.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by foram3438
get Broadsides Naval Adventuring...you can get it through Amazon.

Thanks, that looks really cool.

...Unfortunately, it's also kind of expensive, even on Amazon. :smalleek:

EDIT: Here's a thorough review (http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_6464.html) from rpg.net, written about the time the book came out. Not entirely favorable, although the reviewer doesn't seem that fond of d20 rules in general.



Originally Posted by dsmiles
Mongoose has a series of sefaring books, if you can still find them. They're 3e, but easily converted to 3.5/PF.

I never really looked at the old Mongoose books, but 3.0 is fine with me. Do you happen to remember any titles?

Also, does Pathfinder have any naval rules of its own? I've barely looked through it (500-page rulebook) but I seem to recall there's an Inner Sea or something where a lot of nautical shenanigans take place.

[Ravens_cry]

It has vehicle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/vehicles) rules (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/vehicles) for everything from chariots to galleons to airships to magipunk mecha.

[dsmiles]

I never really looked at the old Mongoose books, but 3.0 is fine with me. Do you happen to remember any titles?
Seas of Blood was the main book, I think. Followed by Ships of War, Ships of the Elves, and Ships of the Goblinoids (maybe that one was Ships of the Orcs...I can't remember, off-hand, and am AFB).

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by dsmiles
Seas of Blood was the main book, I think.

Okay, thanks. I'd already come across Seas of Blood and hadn't even realized it was Mongoose. Only one review, not entirely glowing. Did you ever use these yourself? It looks like this is more focused on characters and PrCs, etc., which is fine, just not what I'm looking for right now.


Originally Posted by Ravens_cry
It has vehicle rules for everything from chariots to galleons to airships to magipunk mecha.

Thanks...although these rules look a lot like the 3.5 ruleset, just treating ships as big wagons.

One of the things that really bugs me is how badly they underestimate the number of crew needed to operate even a small sailing ship. A small frigate usually carried upwards of 200 men, and the large first-rates of the Napoleonic Wars, mounting over a hundred guns, often had more than 800 crew. Whoever wrote these rules doesn't seem to have read up on the actual ships involved. :smallannoyed:
.
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[dsmiles]

Okay, thanks. I'd already come across Seas of Blood and hadn't even realized it was Mongoose. Only one review, not entirely glowing. Did you ever use these yourself? It looks like this is more focused on characters and PrCs, etc., which is fine, just not what I'm looking for right now.
The other three are about the ships. But the main rules for movement and ship-to-ship combat are in Seas of Blood with maybe a little bit in the other three. They are, by no means, comprehensive. I never actually got a chance to use the rules, though every time it's my turn to DM, I want to run a pirate campaign.

[Palanan]

Thanks...that might be worth checking into, then, although I think I'll go the library route first.

As for the pirate campaign...well, just run a nautical campaign, and it'll become a pirate campaign. :smalltongue:



Seriously, be careful what you wish for. I haven't even had my first session and one of my players is already planning her career as a Dread Pirate Queen.