Damage Redection, Ineffective weapons, ect.

[Ulysses WkAmil]

Hello. I recently bought a MM, and started looking through it. Now from the OOTS, I am aware that there was a Demon/Devil damage reduction thing that existed in 3.Xe (I've only ever played 4e). This damage reduction can be penetrated with the rigt tools, silver, cold iron, ect. In the 4e MM, there is no mention of damage reduction. These same questions apply to elementals, skeletons, or anything that can't realisticly be hurt with a pointy stick, because I think its odd that stabbing a wind elemental would actually do something. Is there something I missed? Did they take it out? If they did, is there some sort of homebrew rule that can help? Becasue I like the fact that certain creatures have a special weakness. Thanks in advance.

[Reluctance]

Some creatures have damage resistances. Some have vulnerabilities. Some rare few have immunities. They're just closer to 3.5 energy resistance than 3.5 DR.

Ineffective weapons are something they went out of their way to avoid. If your damage tanks against a specific encounter, you get to feel like dead weight during that one encounter. 3.5 already made appreciable steps there; DR was usually rather low compared to the damage PCs could do. (Sabine, for instance, would ignore 10 damage out of howevermany d6s Haley was pumping in. That would leave a dent even without a cold iron weapon.) 4e just continued the philosophy.

Because nontrivial damage reduction (or as it was in AD&D, outright damage immunity) can go one of two ways. Either the PC has the appropriate tool to breach it, in which case it's mostly a flavor ability, or the PC doesn't, and they get to sit out the fight doing nothing. One's essentially useless, the other is pointedly bad design.

[Treblain]

The term used instead of Damage Reduction is Resist # to All Damage, which works the same way as Resist # to Element" does, except it reduces any source of damage by the given number.

Some monsters might have regeneration, and recover HP every turn, but their regeneration is stopped if they're hit by something they're vulnerable to. For example, werecreatures lose regeneration if hit by silver, trolls if hit by fire.

Swarms are resistant to targeted attacks but vulnerable to area attacks. Insubstantial (incorporeal or gaseous) creatures, including some air elementals, take half damage from all attacks, but they might have some vulnerability to make them more easy to hurt.

[Vknight]

Basically it was a rule that made someone who specialized in a weapon or skill set feel weak and not be able to contribute to the party.
So they removed it after all it sucks for the sword wielding fighter to not be able to hurt some skeletons, or the archer to not just aim for the head/joints/magical gem.
So no there is no homebrew to bring in something that crippled PC's by making them feel worthless in a fight.

[Ulysses WkAmil]

A lot of this makes sense, I guess I was focusing on the positive. I do agree with the fact that it can make some players feel useless, I overlooked this until now. It can also make some players feel more useful, however, if they can do damage to the creature or have the proper weapons. Setting up the characters for this (if an NPC warns them of what they'll need), like reluctance said, just adds flavour. Although in very special circumstances it could make for an interesting mechanic within a campaign.

[Vknight]

They have rules for silver already it costs 10-50gp. So if you must use it then use something similar for Cold Iron

[Ulysses WkAmil]

Ya, although would a cold iron weapon cost more or less than a silvered weapon? And just to be sure, cold iron is an iron weapon wrought without fire, correct?

[Reluctance]

For balance purposes, I'd suggest having cold iron be the same price as silver. They both allow you to niche-ify your weapon.

Just be mindful that creatures vulnerable to specific materials should phase out partway through Heroic unless you explicitly spell out what you're doing. If fairies are something that will clearly play a part in your campaign throughout Paragon, the players can understand that cold iron = good and prepare accordingly. If they're carrying +4 cold iron weapons and you decide to drop werebeasties into their midst, silver would have to have some really impressive properties to offset the to-hit loss.

[Adoendithas]

And probably if you allow Cold Iron you would want it to have an impact on players as well. For example, an eladrin might take an extra bit of damage from a cold iron weapon.

[kieza]

I homebrew a lot of monsters, and for big, tough, armored monsters, I frequently use damage reduction/immunity. My rule of thumb is to give either resist all equal to half the monster's level, resistance to 2-4 (nonphysical) types equal to 5 + half level, or immunity to a single type.

It seems to work well; the monsters I've made using this rule were well received, and the fights played out very nicely. The players figured out quickly to use high-damage single-attack powers against monsters with resistances, and it gave them a nasty scare.

[Ulysses WkAmil]

And probably if you allow Cold Iron you would want it to have an impact on players as well. For example, an eladrin might take an extra bit of damage from a cold iron weapon.

I see where you're headed with this, maybe silver could have some kind of effect on shifters?


I homebrew a lot of monsters, and for big, tough, armored monsters, I frequently use damage reduction/immunity. My rule of thumb is to give either resist all equal to half the monster's level, resistance to 2-4 (nonphysical) types equal to 5 + half level, or immunity to a single type.

It seems to work well; the monsters I've made using this rule were well received, and the fights played out very nicely. The players figured out quickly to use high-damage single-attack powers against monsters with resistances, and it gave them a nasty scare
I like this.

[caden_varn]

Ya, although would a cold iron weapon cost more or less than a silvered weapon? And just to be sure, cold iron is an iron weapon wrought without fire, correct?

I believe cold iron was made without melting the ore (as before charcoal furnaces were invented they could not get the temperature hot enough). I think you heat the ore up as much as you can, then hammer the crap out of it to remove the impurities. Not completely sure about this.

[Adoendithas]

According to Wikipedia the term "cold iron" simply refers to how iron always feels cold. But I'm guessing WoTC is using it to mean something else.

[Vknight]

Its a magical metal that without proper forging over heats and becomes normal iron. The inborn property is one which lets it harm fey.

Also don't apply these negatives or positives to PC races. Manly because a shifter may want to be a werewolf hunter and it would suck if your biggest weakness is your own sword

[darkdragoon]

There is "resist weapon damage" if you don't want to use "resist all."


Silver can be added to any weapon, although there are enchantments with the effect built in, like say, the Moonbow.

IIRC there are couple ways to use cold iron in Heroes of the Feywild but there is a specific Cold Iron Weapon, Shield etc. in Adventurer's Vault.

[Burley]

I think that the point of cold iron being damaging to fey/demons is that the iron is pure, but shaped. Whereas steel doesn't have the pure connection to nature, because it has been mixed with other minerals, Cold Iron would be iron that hasn't been treated with other minerals to strengthen it. That would explain the penalties to-hit in previous iterations.
Anyway, because it's pure iron, it still has its mystical connection to nature, but because the iron has been twisted into humanoid's freakish designs, it's energies have been twisted.


That's how I've always explained it.