Gremlins, a quick race for examination

[XionUnborn01]

I'm starting a campaign on sunday and a friend wanted to play a gremlin, the kind of classic mischievous-bordering-on-evil tinkering gremlin from movies and stories. I threw this together quickly, but please give me some feedback on what you think. and please ignore the bad format and such, as I said it was quickly done.



Tiny: 20ft speed, +2 attack rolls, +2 AC, -8 on grapple, bull rush, trip, +8 on hide.

gremlins can be anywhere from 1 foot tall to rarely 2 feet, and weigh roughly 6 pounds. their skin can be anywhere from green to black to brown, most have color variations in their skin much like a lizard or snake. some have a frill of hair on their head while others are completely hairless. gremlins are long lived, many living over 200 years though with their tribal nature they are often killed long before that. gremlins are androgynous and are ruled by the strongest among their group, how they even come into existance is still a mystery.

-4 Str, Dex +6, Cha-2

Darkvision 30ft.

Hydrophobia: The sight of water, even as little as a puddle, causes a gremlin to become paralyzed with fear. This lasts one minute after they're taken out of sight of the water or until it can be removed through some means such as calm emotions or similar effect. Immunity to fear does not negate this effect, but does half the duration.if a gremlin is subject to the torture of touching water, they take 1 point of nonlethal damage a round, douple that if half submerged and quadruple that if fully submerged.

Water multiplication: gremlins subjected to the touch of water instantly have what appear to be boils sprout all over their skin in the area the water touched. one round later the boils burst and fine sized gremlins (1-2 inches in height) sprout forth (generally 1-3 per boil). these duplicates are wild and seemingly insane, running in all directions under no control. The clones die off within 3-5 rounds and their bodies dissolve into a puddle of liquid.

mechanical mind: gremlins are naturally inventive and love to take apart all different things and try to put them back together. Though their real skill lies in taking things apart. gremlins gain a +2 racial bonus on disable device and one craft skill of their choice (often trapmaking).

automatic languages: Goblin
bonus languages: common, gnome, dwarven

[Eisenfavl]

Hydrophobia has no save. It also lasts for 10 rounds minimum. Create water is a level 0 spell. Your PC is utterly helpless against knowing foes or angry PC's.

Additionally those stats really lend themselves to a broken wizard. Bonus Dex and Con? Thanks. Int? Great. Penalties to everything else? Two of those are dump stats, and my will save is fine anyway.

Speak language isn't something you make a check on. That bonus is pointless.

Gremelins only get half bonus from armour (due to tiny) so really non-armoured, Int using caster is both a broken option and the only decent one.
Ultra-wizard ahoy.

[Curious]

There are gremlins on the PFSRD (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/fey/gremlins), and their LA is quite low (+0 for Pugwampi, +1 for Jinkin, Vexgit, and Fuath, and +2 for Nuglub).

[XionUnborn01]

Speak language isn't something you make a check on. That bonus is pointless.
I was totally looking at languages as i was typing and mixed it around in my head. It should be a +2 bonus on Disable Device and one craft skill, changing now.


Additionally those stats really lend themselves to a broken wizard. Bonus Dex and Con? Thanks. Int? Great. Penalties to everything else? Two of those are dump stats, and my will save is fine anyway.

well, the dex and con bonuses are really just from shrinking the goblin down...actually i forgot to nix the con bonus from the size modification. again changing now. and the int bonus upon second thoughts is changing to instead nullify the wis penalty.


Gremelins only get half bonus from armour (due to tiny) so really non-armoured, Int using caster is both a broken option and the only decent one.

where does it state that smaller creatures get reduced bonus from armor? i'm unaware of this.


hydrophobia etc etc

the phobia is supposed to be a big deal, how would you suggest i change it?

[Eisenfavl]

well, the dex and con bonuses are really just from shrinking the goblin down...actually i forgot to nix the con bonus from the size modification. again changing now. and the int bonus upon second thoughts is changing to instead nullify the wis penalty.
The stats don't seem to bad right now, I suppose.



where does it state that smaller creatures get reduced bonus from armor? i'm unaware of this.
Page 123 of Player's handbook, in the 'Armour for Unusual Creatures' sidebar.




the phobia is supposed to be a big deal, how would you suggest i change it?
Phobia's are fine, as defining flaws of a race, but an unsavable high duration un-item/spell preventable effect is kind of... frustrating.
Especially when it is such a common thing.

I'd prefer to deal with it in a many more reminiscent of being dazzled in daylight: when with 60ft of water, a gremlin is shaken. Passing within 10ft requires a will save DC 20: high and difficult, but a powerful gremlin can largely ignore it. Being touched by water has a DC 20 will save or be panicked for one round, so it will run away from the water.

Also the sizes of your water multiplication thing are a bit... weird. Diminutive is within one category of Tiny, so that's like an orc having create water cast above his head, and then getting an average of 2 per boil (of an un-named size, so that could be a large number, what with total immesion from the spell) goblins explode out of him everywhere.
Like a horse seeing a puddle, locking up and falling over into the puddle, and then dying while humans explode out of it's chest.

That's another thing. Unsavable paralysis + subdual damage means that a gremlin who has a puddle made beneath him (such as by create water) is incapable of running while he is slowly pushed into unconsciousness.

[Fitz10019]

Suppose the phobia applies as-is, and this is why the gremlins generally stay in their home environment and avoid spellcasting humanoids (except to dismantle their stuff).

To play one as a PC, the character needs a talisman that partially protects him from water. This would cost the PC their neck slot or one of their ring slots.

Talisman powers:

Sight protection: when within line of sight of standing water (including puddles), the talisman renders the wearer partially blind. He cannot see anything below the talisman. He is blind to any hazards on the ground, and his movement is reduced to half (the same movement penalty for blindness).
Contact protection: when attacked with water, the talisman attempts to repel the water. If the weight of the water equals or exceeds the weight of the wearer, the wearer is possibly bullrushed by the water. If the wearer wins the bullrush check, the water disburses around the wearer. If the weight of the water is less than the weight of the wearer, the talisman automatically wins the bullrush check.
Immersion protection: when immersed in water, the talisman freezes the water in contact with the wearer. The result is that the wearer does not suffer any water-touching consequences, can not breathe, and floats. The wearer is initially conscious, and may attempt a Strength check to bust out of the ice while conscious.

Just a thought. I don't know what the DCs should be.

[KillianHawkeye]

Just don't feed it after midnight! :smallwink:

[XionUnborn01]

Page 123 of Player's handbook, in the 'Armour for Unusual Creatures' sidebar.

Huh...I never noticed side not before, though that's probably because I never play anything that small. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.


Also the sizes of your water multiplication thing are a bit... weird. Diminutive is within one category of Tiny, so that's like an orc having create water cast above his head, and then getting an average of 2 per boil (of an un-named size, so that could be a large number, what with total immesion from the spell) goblins explode out of him everywhere.
Like a horse seeing a puddle, locking up and falling over into the puddle, and then dying while humans explode out of it's chest.

I apparently mixed up the size categories when writing that part, I often mix up fine/diminutive for some reason. The clones would be Fine, I apologize for that and will fix it now. That ability is supposed to be a flavor ability, like the gremlins from the movie gremlins, it's not supposed to have any effect in game really, which is why it's not really specific.


Phobia's are fine, as defining flaws of a race, but an unsavable high duration un-item/spell preventable effect is kind of... frustrating.
Especially when it is such a common thing.

True. What about something like this; When a gremlin is within 60 ft of water and can see it, the gremlin must make a DC 15 Wil save or become shaken. Within 20ft of visible water a gremlin must make a DC 20 Wil save or become shaken, and touching water or coming within 1ft of it requires a DC 20 Wil save or frightened. If under the effect of a spell giving them any type of morale bonus, they gain a bonus on their Wil save equal to the spell level in question, if the spell already grants them a bonus to their saving throw, both bonuses stack. Also change it to immunity granting a +5 bonus on the check and halving the duration.


To play one as a PC, the character needs a talisman that partially protects him from water. This would cost the PC their neck slot or one of their ring slots.

This actually is a good idea, what about a simple to craft item costing 1 day and 20gp to make that all gremlins know how to make with a DC 10 Craft (something?) check. this talisman grants them a +5 bonus on the Wil saves against their phobia. A greater one exists taking 3 days, and 200gp to make with a DC 16 craft check that grants a +10 bonus. How about something like that?


That's another thing. Unsavable paralysis + subdual damage means that a gremlin who has a puddle made beneath him (such as by create water) is incapable of running while he is slowly pushed into unconsciousness.

With the above changes do you think this is still a big issue?

[XionUnborn01]

Just don't feed it after midnight!

we already established that fluff wise actually! :smalltongue: They instinctively know when midnight is and know that easting afterwords gives them stomach pains the next day. It was something that we had to include but didnt want to be a huge issue.